What has the market been doing for these cars the last 6 months? Haven't really been following it and was curious(no I don't have a car to sell) just wanting some opinions.
And what do see the future holds in store for the musclecar market. Anybody have any opinions on what the next big thing may be and will 68-70 chargers continue to be part of that? Interested to hear what you guys(sorry-girls,too)think.
Great site and look forward to seeing what your opinions are.
well, i personally think chargers will continue to increase at about the rate they have been.. 6-10% per year. they are awesome cars, best body design ever (of course i'm a little boased) but as of right this instant, it seems, as far as ebay, that the market is somewhat temporarily flooded, or at a standstill. last couple weeks in particular i have noticed quite a few deals on chargers either not get clicked, or end reserve not met. that usually happens once or twice a year it seems, for 68-70's anyway. but i never see them declining or totally leveling off. demand will always be greater than supply, especially for nice driver or restored cars for sale
trav
This should answer your question. I kept the whole article in tact but wanted to delete the part about the Dukes. I left it but really don't agree with it, look left and you'll see why. But this article says the Dodge Charger will forever be the primo muscle car of all time. I myself like a lot of Mopars but nothing compares,IMHO, to the 2nd gen Dodge Charger. Further proof is the Car Show my buddy's Jim and Matt Shine, and myself went to this weekend. I would go out on a limb and say, well let's just say were mobbed all day, young and old alike, woman too. We must have been stopped a ton just leaving the place to still take pictures with our cars. Say what you want about the DOH faithful but it definitley keeps the Charger spirit alive in almost everyone young and old. Yeah, it's got an 01 and a rebel flag but hey, we're doing our part. I really dig all you purists out there and I know enough about Mopar to appreciate a fine piece of work when I see it but I'll bet you one thing, if our cars were parked next to each other in a crowd, i'm gonna guess the GL would get just a little more attention from everyone.
Please don't take this the wrong way, I love the crisp clean lines and everything that goes with the charger, and I love to see all the cars on this site cause they are works of art. You guys are incredible with some of the stuff I've seen and I applaud you all for making them damn near new again. I just feel I have the best of both worlds. :Twocents:
My moral to this rant is, the 2nd generation charger will be a very desired car for a long time to come. those 3rd gen's are starting to get a little well deserved attention too and the 1st gen's, i like em but alas the public is not sophisticated enough to appreciate them like us. :icon_smile_big:
v/r
Mike
DODGE CHARGER
Anyone who has seen Bullitt will probably remember an otherwise forgettable film saved by one outstanding car chase where a couple of bad guys in a Dodge Charger first pursue and then are pursued by a San Francisco cop. The Charger came off considerably worse in the chase and from that day earned itself a place in car history as inferior to Steve McQueen's Mustang.
Sadly that is a travesty of the truth because the 1968 Charger marked the zenith of that most fabled of all American automotive species: the muscle car. Never before or since has America offered a family of four a combination of such power and beauty as the 68 Charger. By the early 1970s emissions regulations (yes, even then) and soaring insurance costs had begun to eat into the performance figures and muscle cars were never quite the same again.
The concept behind the Charger was simple. How big an engine could Dodge squeeze under the bonnet before the car became so nose-heavy it was unsteerable? The rest of the car was a relatively simple design with a purity in its lines that I have always found breathtaking. Even the 69 and 70 Chargers, which used the same bodies but with added brightwork, clouded the clarity of the 68's vision, and by 1971 a new and ugly Charger ended the era for good.
The other problem that came along in the 1970s was the dratted Dukes of Hazzard which, while making the Charger instantly recognisable, condemned its image to a cheesy, clichéd, hillbilly hell. It became known for being good at jumping dry river beds, showing us Catherine Bach's legs as she fed them through the windows of its welded-up doors, and really very little else.
The car deserved a fate far better than that. If you ever see one in the street, take the time to drink in not just its perfect proportions but also the exquisite detailing on its bodywork. Look at its blind-eye grille, the side strakes and, if you have access to a high building, its extraordinary Coke-bottle view from above. This is a car that's gorgeous in all three dimensions. Then hope its owner comes along and starts it up and hope even more that the sound proves it's fitted with the largest engine available at the time, the 440 Magnum.
Naturally the Bullitt Charger had Magnum power — 375bhp oozing malevolently from 7.2 litres of Detroit iron. It had even more torque, some 480 lb ft of the stuff, enough to smoke its tyres down to the carcass in seconds if you weren't judicious in your use of the gas. And then there was the noise. Sadly 1968 sound-recording techniques mean you will never experience the true Charger thunder from the film alone. If you want to know how badly it's infected me, I once found myself on my hands and knees, my head positioned next to its two fat tailpipes, while a colleague spun the rev counter into the red time and gain. The earth shook and now every time I fail to hear what someone says I wonder if that Charger had something to do with it.
The thing about the Charger is that it provides an unforgettable memory. Granted, Nick Rufford attracted more admiring looks in his Mustang when we raced the cars at Silverstone, but whatever appeal the Ford possesses
it is undoubtedly slower (as I proved on the day) and to my mind uglier. The Charger can provide an hour's entertainment even before you hit the road just by dabbing your foot on and off the gas pedal.
A few years ago I planned the ultimate road trip: I'd fly to California, find and buy a Charger, drive it across the continent, ship it back to Blighty and sell it, the profit covering all my expenses. The plan failed because all the cars I researched were either basket cases I didn't want or immaculate examples I couldn't afford.
Secretly I was glad as I knew I would never have been able to bring myself to sell it on my return, with inevitably catastrophic consequences for my bank account, marriage and other things I hold dear. But the point is that, of all the cars that I could have bought, not for one second did it even occur to me to look for anything other than a Charger, and a 68 Magnum at that.
I've driven three now, one on the road, this one on the track and, somewhat peculiarly, a third in a quarry. And I've learnt a few things about them. Like they're only good to drive on dry sunny days, not least because if it's wet it will spin its wheels so easily you'll struggle to get out of your parking space.
But if the weather is fine and the road straight and open, it will introduce you to a form of automotive enjoyment you may not have suspected even existed. You'll put your shades on and watch as
your left arm instinctively finds the window sill. You'll wish you smoked, if only to provide a few empty Marlboro packets to spread over the top of the dash. And you'll waft along on just a trace of throttle, the mighty V8 rumbling ahead of you.
You'll hope that something really quick and modern has a go at you — a Porsche Boxster is good — and you'll call upon the Magnum to do its stuff and watch until the German's rapidly shrinking image in the mirror disappears for good. And as you look forward over that bonnet, and back over those rear haunches, you'll know that there are American muscle cars — Mustangs, Camaros and all the other excellent machines that made 1960s America such a fine place to be a car nut — and then there are Chargers. A breed apart, a law unto themselves and, quite simply, the best.
Andrew Frankel
VITAL STATISTICS
Model Dodge Charger 440 Magnum
Engine type 7219cc (440 cubic inches) V8
Power 375bhp @ 4600rpm Torque 480lb ft @ 3200rpm
Transmission Three-speed auto or four-speed manual
Performance 0-60mph: 6.0sec
Top speed: 135mph
Price $3,480 new
Verdict The ultimate American muscle car
Rating 5/5
I wont add to the statement. But here is our cars at the END of the show Mike talks about. We could barely see our cars through the entire show. This was taken near the end when the crowds were thinning out.
(http://zeus.lunarpages.com/~jimshi2/dukes/reDsc00106.jpg)
I just wonder what the whole"hobby"(business) has in store for itself if people find themselves in the same situation that say the house market is in right now.Was booming right along and it seems like the wheels have sort of fallen off. I know of people taking out second mortgages on their houses and they owe more than what their house value is. Do you guys see this happening to the muscle/collector market?I also heard on the news today that people today have more credit card debt than ever and their savings accounts are drying up. I know this doen't pertain to everybody, but still between record energy prices,record job losses/downsizing,etc. doesn't the well have to go dry sometime? I know most of us aren't the ones buying/selling the 6 and 7 figure cars out there, but don't you think there has to be a ceiling at some point for the whole market?
For one thing, the "experts" often don't know crap when it comes to collectibles, cars or otherwise.
The classic car experts would have laughed if you'd told them 35 years ago that 1971 Plymouth convertibles would sell for $5 million bucks. The toy collectors would have laughed if you'd told them 25 years ago than a cheap plastic Luke Skywalker figure would someday be worth a mint too.
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I think the typical American buyer has a "ceiling" for sure. But the thing is, I think the musclecar market is in for a major shift in WHICH cars are most sought-after.
I think that as time goes by, certain musclecars get "passed by" when the new generation takes over the market. Others stay relevant.
Look at a 1963 Max Wedge Savoy, for example: It's a rare & classic musclecar for sure. The problem is, I don't see a car like that making a bunch of NEW fans among the younger crowd as time goes by. I see younger fans paying it a decent amount of respect for what it was in its heyday, but I don't see many of them wanting to spend $25,000 building a replica of a 1963 Maxie. I don't see a '63 Savoy being chosen as a "badass" car for a kid to drive in a "Fast & Furious" movie, for example. (They'd rather use a '71 Monte Carlo for that, no matter how much slower the Monte was than the Max Wedge Savoy in stock shape).
But on the other hand, I see the younger kids absolutely loving '68-70 Chargers across the board. They'd kill for a chance to own '69 Charger even if it's got a 318, dog-dish wheels, and a barf-green vinyl top. THAT kind of demand is what's worth paying attention to.
Good point.
Also, I think it is probably a lot easier for people to get these cars even if they don't have cash. Credit is given out much easier than in the past(easier?-maybe the wrong word..more options for lending or borrowing is what I mean),albeit maybe at a high% rate, but that doesn't stop some people from doing anything to relive the past or get a dream fulfilled.The old theory-Buy now,worry about paying later.
Quote from: JimShine on June 27, 2006, 07:38:58 PM
I wont add to the statement. But here is our cars at the END of the show Mike talks about. We could barely see our cars through the entire show. This was taken near the end when the crowds were thinning out.
(http://zeus.lunarpages.com/~jimshi2/dukes/reDsc00106.jpg)
Jim, at what circus was that pic taken? If that was show shine and what a drag I`d be checking for dings dents and scratches from all the snot nose kids and baby strollers...
I dig those tire tracks, those yours?. :icon_smile_wink:
and by 1971 a new and ugly Charger ended the era for good. ??? ??? OK lemme at em im guna splat him i tell ya . what kinda krack smoker is this chump ?? the 68 was a nice car and i agree it will not be loosing much value in the near future, but i still believe that from 68 to 71 the charger improved with age, becoming more refined with age untill 72 when looks took a small backward step, (side markers) and preformance took a huge hit.
The 1968-1970 Charger's will always be hit. Next time you take your car out and park it somewhere go find a bench and just sit down. Watch what people do when they walk by it. They will stop, they will make an outline of the sillouette with their hands, they will walk around the car two or three times, they will comment and then ask complete strangers who the owner is.
These cars provoke imagination... and the shape is simply beautiful - plus that blacked out grill looks simply evil when someone see's it in their rearview mirror.
Quote from: Brock Samson on June 27, 2006, 10:54:01 PM
I dig those tire tracks, those yours?. :icon_smile_wink:
Dave,
those aren't our tracks, those are from winners of the race doing donuts and stuff. that is actually just about the front stretch of the racetrack right at the flag stand point. we did get plenty of requests to do burnouts but i'm not really in to buying tires cause they cost too much. beside's i've got 2.7's in the rear and until i get a 3.55 SG pig, i won't even think about putting egg on the face of this board and disgracing the charger name because i screwed up a burnout.
I'm a big picture guy if you know what i mean.
v/r
Mike
unless its really a dog 2.70s will turn plenty of tire..just gotta keep the left foot buisy on the break lol. my 72 has a worn out very mild 360 with 2.76s and can make plenty impressive burnouts with 10 inch M/T sportsmans.
:bump:
I'd say pretty good now that orange '69's go for 9.9 million dollars. :D
Quote from: Big Lebowski on May 07, 2007, 08:48:23 PM
I'd say pretty good now that orange '69's go for 9.9 million dollars. :D
:haha: :haha: :haha:
I would say there are a whole lot of project cars for sale on Ebay that have probably been sitting in a field for 20 years. I haven't really saw a whole lot of good quality 20-25k drivers. Those have no problem selling when the price is realistic. There have been some deals on Ebay but not complete steals compared to prices over the last 6 months. The prices have leveled off a little bit but I think they will continue to go up gradually every year. Pretty soon our 20k drivers will be out 30-40k drivers before we know it. Good for sellers, Bad for buyers.
The cars are very valuable and I don't see them loosing their value, but slow down in the next ten years. They can only get so high before people aren't willing to pay. It is getting to the point now where the average Joe is having trouble restoring a MoPar due to prices and the limited supply of some parts. Hemis and R/Ts will allways be high dollar cars, but I don't see 318 cars or clone cars getting too much higher after the ten or fifteen years. just my $.02
From what I have seen in the last few months, it appears as though the deep pocket hardcore collectors are still prepared to spend big money on real cars if the paperwork is there to prove the pedigree. They also seem (to me) like they are shifting towards Chevrolet products somewhat. The retiring babyboomers who were cashing in 401k's or whatever and just wanted to get their teenage dreamcar no matter the cost, seem to be less visible right now and the clone market seems to have normalized a lot. Values are still rising but not at the stupid rates they were a short time ago.
Your results may vary.
Quote from: Ghoste on May 08, 2007, 04:16:30 AM
From what I have seen in the last few months, it appears as though the deep pocket hardcore collectors are stilling prepared to spend big money on real cars if the paperwork is there to prove the pedigree. They also seem (to me) like they are shifting towards Chevrolet products somewhat. The retiring babyboomers who were cashing in 401k's or whatever and just wanted to get their teenage dreamcar no matter the cost, seem to be less visible right now and the clone market seems to have normalized a lot. Values are still rising but not at the stupid rates they were a short time ago.
Your results may vary.
People paying the outrages amounts for the pedigrees, make the guy with the 318 and clones feel his is worth much more and ask that price and that drives the total value of these cars up. I don't think that will go on for ever but a Daytona or hemi car isn't gonna lose much value anytime soon.
It cost just as much to build a clone as it does build a real R/T. The cars are exact same car except for a vin and badges.
I am sure that is true, but a real #s matching R/T will command much more on resale. Just as the resale value of an R/t w/o matching #s drive train will command less.
Quote from: Back N Black on May 08, 2007, 10:35:28 AM
It cost just as much to build a clone as it does build a real R/T. The cars are exact same car except for a vin and badges.
Are they? Clones don't just exist in the musclecar world and collectors in all aspects of the old car hobby have never been willing to pay as much for clones as they will for the real thing. In fact, my experience has been that it's only the musclecar segment where people were willing to pay figures nearing a real car. So it may just be a vin and badges, but the people in the hobby with the big money appear to me like they don't necessarily agree with you. I agree on the cost to restore part, but you don't see many clones filled with correctly date coded NOS parts either. Most real cars don't get them either, but the bellringers of value usually have them if they have had to be restored at all.
But mine is only one mans narrow little opinion in a big big hobby.
I have a 70 charger with a 318. I have plans on building a reliable driver. I'm not going to be like everyone else and put in the big block. I am spending just as much money as everyone else, because everything is so damn expensive. I just hope I don't have to sell it, because IMO I don't think a nicely done small block charger will be worth enough as a big block
It won't be worth as much as a R/T #s car but don't sell your self short, these cars are very desirable small and big block.
I know there was a guy in here that had one hell of a sweet r4 red charger. Nicely done up with a 318. He wanted 23 grand for it and no one wanted to buy that is why I just plan on keeping my charger for as long as I can
a 68-70 charger will always be worth to much money !! i personally dont care about what my car is worth! i wish it was worth less so people wouldnt try to buy it from me at tempting prices .......but yes i think the value of certain cars will always be up there and in my opinion the mopars that will alway retain the highest value are 68-70 chargers and 70-71 cudas ! imo
Why is it the Cuda has more value than the Challenger? I can see the Charger over the RR because although they are the same body style, they are very different, the Cuda and Challenger are visually much more alike.
I have a 69 Charger with a 318 in it. I have an idea of what i could sell it for and if someone wanted to pay that much I would sell it. The price is probably higher than most of you think. Who cares if its a 318 or 440.
Quote from: DodgeChargerNeeded on May 09, 2007, 04:17:44 PM
I have a 69 Charger with a 318 in it. I have an idea of what i could sell it for and if someone wanted to pay that much I would sell it. The price is probably higher than most of you think. Who cares if its a 318 or 440.
:iagree: :iagree:
The Barrett Jackson Hemi cloners would love a clean straight 318 car that gramma never drove. :yesnod:
With the rising gas prices I'm gonna make bumper stickers that reads "My charger gets 17 miles to the gallon"