I bout dont know were to start but ill try. Ive replaced starter, coil, ballist resistor, ignition module, distributor cap, rotor button, spark plugs, fuel pump , fuel lines, and heat wrap around fuel lines. Im not for sure if the car came out like this but it is a push button start the button is located inside ashtray so to start it i have to turn the key over and push the button and it will crank. It takes a lil bit but it will start but only run for about 5 min then dies. There are 2 wires under dash if i put them together the car will start but i have to let them go cause it gets so hot they start to melt also when there connected my lights work headlights, taillights.. ect.. and car starts but if there not connected the car wont start nothing works. I can start the car and it run for bout 5 min then it dies and then it wont start back I have to wait bout an hr then it will start again ... Sometimes when it wont start back when i release the wires i can hear it turn over a lil bit . I can also tell a change in idle when wires are together and when there not. If the car starts i can release wires and it will run but that the only way it will start. I also noticed the car smokes around valve covers and exhaust not sure if its a leak or just burning old oil. I checked around plugs and its real oily. I dont know were to start or what is affecting what... Any ideas??
Valve cover leaking oil, timing off-not enough advance? What engine? Plug wires new? Start/run are 2 different wires for ignition, how is that wired? Nothing should run and get so hot the wires smoke, is your battery 100% good condition and fully charged before starting?
Pics of what you have going on?
I think you've got a short in your wiring harness. Mine was doing something similar and it was the 12V to the alternator was shorting to another wire.
All started when my electric choke wire melted when it touched my air cleaner. :brickwall:
unravel the whole wiring harness and have a look...or better yet replace it. Sounds like those wires to the button are probably going to your starter solenoid, and the others you "touch together" putting 24V to the coil. (in place of your ignition switch)
When you say it wont start for about an hour later, possibly because your battery has recovered from being totally drained from a short.
Ill try to put up some pics later... I started yesterday checking my wiring harnes the wires honestly looked new when i peeled tape back. I can tell someone has done work to it before i got it. Motor is a 440 has a electric choke carb. The 2 wire i put together to get it to start are 2 thick red coated wires. I peeled tape back and saw this 2 wires have been spliced together with other wires to mak them longer. One of them is spliced to a black wire and the other is spliced but to an red coated wire. When i got it these 2 wires had a metal circle piece on the end of it and were bolted together on a vault gauge. There are 3 gauges bolted under dash vault, oil pressure, and temp. The gauge has 2 post in back and these 2 wires were both bolted to the positive side of gauge. I took the red 1 to positive and the red that was spliced into a black 1 i put it on negative but the red that was spliced into a black 1 is the 1 getting hot on me. I dont understand the push button to gt it to start??? I mean everything looks to be there that it would start by turning the key it has an electric distributor on it. Also i can tell every time if its gonna start or not if it has a real fast crank when trying to start it will not start but if it starts out with a slow crank it starts everytime
For sure, the car did not leave the factory with a push button for starting in the ash tray. It sounds like the wiring in the car has been modified and someone may not have really known what they were doing. From your description I would not leave the battery in the car connected unattended. I suspect the wiring is in poor condition as most 40 year old wiring is and may have been modified and jury rigged to the point it is not safe. The bulk head connectors in the car can often lead to all kinds on intermittent problems. If you can post some pictures of the wiring so you can get some advice on what you need to do but, it sounds like some new wiring harnesses might be in order.
As mentioned no wiring should get so hot it smokes. Don't risk loosing your car to a fire, get the wiring back into a safe condition.
It sounds like someone has bypassed the ammeter in the car which is a common modification. To bypass the ammeter the red and black wire that went to the ammeter terminals are connected together. The black wire is from the alternator output and the red wire is from the battery through a fusible link. A fusible link is a piece of wire that is supposed to melt open like a fuse if overloaded.
what i need to do?
Also i can tell every time if its gonna start or not if it has a real fast crank when trying to start it will not start but if it starts out with a slow crank it starts everytime
That is strange for sure. I don't even know what to think of that.
I dont know what you should do except maybe get wiring diagram and go through it wire by wire. Eliminate things you dont need beyond ignition and charging system.
And yep that bypassing the ammeter is pretty common, I've done it, but sounds like someone before you was chasing this gremlin and never found it.
As was said, your wiring has been modified by someone who didn't know how to. That's a problem.
Here's what you should do: Remove the battery, if it's a good one then stick it on a trickle charger and leave it there. Never, ever leave it in place when you have electrical issues like that and please don't mate wires that get hot. The car can burn to a crisp way faster than you might think. Let's not find out how fast. ;)
Remove the instrument cluster and straighten out the wiring behind it, meaning lay all the wires with bulb sockets nice and straight, same with connectors that came off the cluster. This is just to make it easier to see what is wrong in there. Take pictures of all the wiring.
Do the same with the push button, remove it or at least have pictures of how and where the wires run.
Also take pictures of the bulkhead connector on the fire wall and pics of the fuse box. Remove the screw so you can pull the fuse box out to take pics of the back.
Remove the aftermarket gauges but leave them hooked up so we can see which wires they tapped.
Post the pics here or if they are too big post a link to your photobucket or other account.
We'll look it over to see what needs to be done.
Also let us know if you want the electrical system as it left the factory or if you want any upgrades.
Ok i get some pics asap.. The wires only start getting warm when key is turned on but when car is running they get HOT but they get hot if the key is turned over and iturn my headlights on but not as hot if car is running... Im up for all kinds of upgrades... I dont understand the push button start though if it was made like that or why anyone would put it in there.
FSM is your friend.
I've put several modern upgrades in my car but never felt the urge to install a push button start. Never quite understood that or the credit card looking keys.
If you're looking to add things like a modern sound system and/or upgrade the lights and such, not a ton needs to be done to the wiring. But there is a way to make the electrical system rock solid by changing the charging system a bit. The main purchase would be a new alternator.
Let's start by deciphering the current setup and take it from there.
Start thinking on what electrical things you want in the car when done so we can add it to the schematic.
Do get the FSW as said, I have the CD version which makes it real easy to look things up. All the wiring schematics you need are also in there.
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab322/scar_face_22/048.jpg
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http://1970chargerregistry.com/techandspec.html
General Specs Group Packages Wiring Diagrams
Factory Markings Frame Specs
try to look at this wiring diagram at the bottom of page in link
The guy also had a cd player hooked up but I unhooked it.... I just don't see how that these wires have to be together for everything to work as soon as there apart the lights and all quit
Your red wire sounds like the main power wire in the harness under the dash and needs to be hooked up to have any power
If you look at the wiring diagram in the link you should be able to follow which wire you are working with
Not sure if this could be a problem or a answer to 1 ... but i let my battery charge over night. I went out today it cranked a lil slow but fired right up with wires connected while running the wires never got hot not even warm but after 5 to 10 min car dies and wouldnt start back which it does this everytime and bout an hr or more it will start up again and that is when my wires get hot is this a sign of bad alternator? Could the battery be drained by the car running and it die and then it take a few hrs to charge enough to start again?
We're going to need to know a lot more about what the whole electrical system is in order to understand the problems and help. Can you post a few more pictures of what is under the hood. Some pictures of the alternator, bulk head connectors where the engine wiring enters the firewall would be helpful. The under dash wiring looks like a mess and someone has clearly been in there. Also, a 70 left the factory with a point type ignition system but many were converted to some form of electronic ignition. Which does your car have? I suspect from your description of what is happening that the basic alternator/ battery charging circuit is not working correctly. Did you just buy this car or have you owned it for a while? How do you feel about working on electrical systems? These cars are very basic but this one may need quite a bit of work to set it right.
The car does have an electronic distributor ... I will try to get more pics this evening . Ive been working on brakes a lil today.
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The wires once I removed some of the tape look really good. Looks kinda a messy I just haven't re taped them I don't see any naked places or the apprearence of any broken wires in the dash. It looks like around firewall like someone has done something mabey someone can tell from pics
I can't gauge how good you are at electrics but it's standard procedure to unplug all bulkhead connections and clean/inspect everything VERY thoroughly on a 40 plus year old car. Clean all grounds and be certain they are all perfect. Remove the Alt. and have it tested.
If you do not have a Factory Service Manual get one! :2thumbs:
Yep , BIG warning, disconnect battery and remove , those big wires your holding together are from the back of amp gauge, a lot of us by pass that and connect these together, but must be insulated from touching any thing metal.
You have a short in your wiring , I'm betting that it started in the ignition circuit based on the hack job previous owner has done ,
It could be as simple as a bad coil , but your wiring doesn't look in good condition , I would pull the cluster and post more photos, do a lot of reading on here in electrical threads,
The fuse able links are missing and evidence that they kept blowing and previous owner has just linked where they should be,
Keep reading and reading, you will understand better as you go along, think new harnesses , first for under bonnet, unless your very good at remaking your own,
That bulk head connector is a factory bad point and lots of fixes , modification on here for fixes
Get the factory work shop manual and read until it starts to make sense, if your not good with electrical s , get help from a friend who really knows what there doing , but easiest way complete new wiring harnesses ,dash , engine bay
Unplug those connectors at firewall or bulkhead, post photos of how it looks in there , clean up , die electric grease and reconnect
Oil leak , new cork gaskets to covers and reinstall
Is there a spark when the key is off and you hook up the battery ???
There should be none if key off and lights off and doors shut (dome light)
Ok thx guys for the help... I did a lil more investigating on it. The wire that is getting hot on me is the one that is spliced into the black wire the solid red 1 is the power. I checked around the push button it has one wire that runs from the button to the starter and another that goes to the starter relay then its also connected to the bulkhead. Im just not 100% certain what that black wire goes too. Ive checked more on the wiring in dash... still looks good almost looks new just the areas that didn't have no tape on it looks old
There is nothing when key is off just when key is on even if those wires are apart I don't even get anything from my coil it wont spark or nothing when I check it but if I put those wires together the coil sparks fine. I take the battery pos terminal off and no spark so nothing is on. only time the car has any kind of power is when I connect those wires
Save yourself the time and just go get a new wiring harness. Be safe. It's 40yr old wiring that someone has modified.
Been there, done that.
Im gonna look at it more tomorrow from what I can see the wires look ok except for 2 were they have spliced into them to make wires longer. Im gonna try to trace down the wire that is getting hot and see were it goes and go from there. Later im gonna get rid of that push button start and fix it were it starts by turning key and I believe that will get rid of some of the wires in engine bay that they coppled together. I would really just like to see were that 1 wire is goin and why it is getting hot and go from there. Ill let you guys know tomorrow if I find anything. Thanks for all the help
As mentioned someone has replaced the fusible link with a plain piece of green wire and it looks like something spliced into the middle of it. These cars did not have a lot of protection in the electrical circuits. That fusible link was the main protection against major short circuits and a fire. Without that fusible link you're running a big risk of melted wiring harnesses and a fire. The fact that you are already seeing smoking wires tells me you are at the point of a fire. There may also be melted insulation in the wiring harness that you can't see under the tape and the circular corrugated wiring loom someone added. At the very least I would replace that green piece of wire with a 40 or 50 amp blade type fuse in a holder until you fix the wiring issues you have. I would buy plenty of spares because I think they will be blowing quite frequently.
People are recommending new wiring harnesses because when the 40+ year old originals get into the state yours are it is very difficult to make them safe again. Many folks are giving you the benefit of their experience. If you're going to try and repair your present harnesses you will at least need a small test meter with an ohms scale. Do you have one? You need to track down the short circuits in the wiring.
Quote from: Pete in NH on April 18, 2014, 08:33:20 AM
As mentioned someone has replaced the fusible link with a plain piece of green wire and it looks like something spliced into the middle of it. These cars did not have a lot of protection in the electrical circuits. That fusible link was the main protection against major short circuits and a fire. Without that fusible link you're running a big risk of melted wiring harnesses and a fire. The fact that you are already seeing smoking wires tells me you are at the point of a fire. There may also be melted insulation in the wiring harness that you can't see under the tape and the circular corrugated wiring loom someone added. At the very least I would replace that green piece of wire with a 40 or 50 amp blade type fuse in a holder until you fix the wiring issues you have. I would buy plenty of spares because I think they will be blowing quite frequently.
People are recommending new wiring harnesses because when the 40+ year old originals get into the state yours are it is very difficult to make them safe again. Many folks are giving you the benefit of their experience. If you're going to try and repair your present harnesses you will at least need a small test meter with an ohms scale. Do you have one? You need to track down the short circuits in the wiring.
I looked at the wiring diagram and saw the fuse. The green wire runs from bulk head then to starter relay and then runs to the push button start. On the wiring only 1 getting hot jus havent tracked it down which i think it something that has been added by previous owner as far as the other wires so far so good. Im gonn try to get rid of there work and go from there.
Some of your issues could be from engine bay harnesses, long before reproduction harnesses, I re-did mine one wire at a time, reason you won't mix any thing up , engine bay harness wires exposed to the elements , heat , fuels and oils , check the wires to those if they feel hard or brittle start with those,
But pay a lot of attention to the bulk head
Quote from: nh_mopar_fan on April 17, 2014, 07:19:00 PM
Save yourself the time and just go get a new wiring harness. Be safe. It's 40yr old wiring that someone has modified.
Been there, done that.
Yup-you'll chase your tail in circles trying to fix electrical gremlins. Start fresh by rewiring the car; the safety and reliability of your car depend on it. Look up Painless, EZ Wiring, or even Year One's factory correct but sky-high priced harnesses...
Hey sorry for taking so long... but im still tryin to figure a few things out. I found that my new mechanical fuel pump was not working so im getting another 1. The wires that got to my headlights and wipers ect turned out fine but still not figured out the 1 wire that gets hot i checked to see if there was any power to it by itself and it has none but the other wire does. When i connect them it powers up the whole car i can use my headlights ect but when there apart nothing works. If i hold them together though real tight and try to start the car it will not start but if i hold them and jus barley touch them together were they will arc the car starts up each time. Same with coil if i hold the wires tight the coil wont spark but if i hold them just were they will arc then the coil will spark.
I also did some checking for power through a lot of wires around engine. I checked the wires going to my alternator and all 3 shows power ... not sure if this is normal jus checking.
Tip for ya, all the wires have colors that correspond to where they go and what they do. Some have a tracer, a stripe along the side in a contrasting color. If you tell us the color and tracer (If it has one.) we can better help you sort this out.
The bulkhead has each slot on all three plugs alphabetized on schematics so even if you do not have a wiring diagram you can find it online and that will help also. :2thumbs:
With your mechanical pump, it might not be the pump itself , replace the push rod inside block with new moroso one , they loose length after many years of service , and being shorter dont depress fuel pump arm properly, partial pumping
On the alternator the wires are blue, green, and black all 3 have power. The wires in dash are red and black i dont understand why i have to make them arc to get it to start?
Blue/Green go to regulator Black is alt output. Red and black look to be added from red and black from harness? (under dash pics you posted.) Correct?
Looks like the factory ALT gauge was disconnected and big wire added to run to an AMP gauge? (If so that was never correct thinking.)
With the red and black NOT connected what still works A: with key off and B: with key on?
Have you checked the main feed from Alt output THROUGH the bulkhead connectors? (You must remove the plug and look for melting and overheat/burn.)
Quote from: b5blue on April 21, 2014, 08:11:10 AM
Blue/Green go to regulator Black is alt output. Red and black look to be added from red and black from harness? (under dash pics you posted.) Correct?
Looks like the factory ALT gauge was disconnected and big wire added to run to an AMP gauge? (If so that was never correct thinking.)
With the red and black NOT connected what still works A: with key off and B: with key on?
Have you checked the main feed from Alt output THROUGH the bulkhead connectors? (You must remove the plug and look for melting and overheat/burn.)
If wires aint connected nothing with key on or off not even that small click noise when you turn key. On bulkhead there is one place were it has burned and someone has put a green wire to it and the green wire goes from bulkhead to starter relay to starter then to the push button that is in car to start it. The alternator having power on all 3 wires ok?
Quote from: Charger_70 on April 20, 2014, 10:12:37 PMIf i hold them together though real tight and try to start the car it will not start but if i hold them and jus barley touch them together were they will arc the car starts up each time. Same with coil if i hold the wires tight the coil wont spark but if i hold them just were they will arc then the coil will spark.
Weird!
Ballast resistor bypassed?
Quote from: Charger_70 on April 21, 2014, 08:38:25 AM
Quote from: b5blue on April 21, 2014, 08:11:10 AM
Blue/Green go to regulator Black is alt output. Red and black look to be added from red and black from harness? (under dash pics you posted.) Correct?
Looks like the factory ALT gauge was disconnected and big wire added to run to an AMP gauge? (If so that was never correct thinking.)
With the red and black NOT connected what still works A: with key off and B: with key on?
Have you checked the main feed from Alt output THROUGH the bulkhead connectors? (You must remove the plug and look for melting and overheat/burn.)
If wires aint connected nothing with key on or off not even that small click noise when you turn key. On bulkhead there is one place were it has burned and someone has put a green wire to it and the green wire goes from bulkhead to starter relay to starter then to the push button that is in car to start it. The alternator having power on all 3 wires ok?
The alt/voltage reg. isn't the problem, the mods to start/run are. What ignition system is it? Points or something else?
Quote from: b5blue on April 21, 2014, 09:38:08 AM
Quote from: Charger_70 on April 21, 2014, 08:38:25 AM
Quote from: b5blue on April 21, 2014, 08:11:10 AM
Blue/Green go to regulator Black is alt output. Red and black look to be added from red and black from harness? (under dash pics you posted.) Correct?
Looks like the factory ALT gauge was disconnected and big wire added to run to an AMP gauge? (If so that was never correct thinking.)
With the red and black NOT connected what still works A: with key off and B: with key on?
Have you checked the main feed from Alt output THROUGH the bulkhead connectors? (You must remove the plug and look for melting and overheat/burn.)
If wires aint connected nothing with key on or off not even that small click noise when you turn key. On bulkhead there is one place were it has burned and someone has put a green wire to it and the green wire goes from bulkhead to starter relay to starter then to the push button that is in car to start it. The alternator having power on all 3 wires ok?
The alt/voltage reg. isn't the problem, the mods to start/run are. What ignition system is it? Points or something else?Its electronic
Its electronic ... The ballist resistor still there put a new 1 ... I checked wires goin to it and they have power goin to it
The car should be wired that "starting" (while cranking) the coil gets full 12V and "run" switches it to feed the coil through the resistor. That gives a hotter spark starting then drops the power to the coil so it will not overheat and burn up.
From the factory a yellow wire on the start relay supplies 12V to energize that relay. A brown with tracer comes up from the neutral safety switch and that is the ground supply for the relay. (The 2 blades on the bottom of the relay.)
I'm thinking the large black and red wires under the dash were a patch from the ALT gauge getting toasted from bad bulkhead connection. The extra start switch could be added due to ether ignition switch or neutral safety switch failing.
Quote from: b5blue on April 21, 2014, 12:05:21 PM
The car should be wired that "starting" (while cranking) the coil gets full 12V and "run" switches it to feed the coil through the resistor. That gives a hotter spark starting then drops the power to the coil so it will not overheat and burn up.
From the factory a yellow wire on the start relay supplies 12V to energize that relay. A brown with tracer comes up from the neutral safety switch and that is the ground supply for the relay. (The 2 blades on the bottom of the relay.)
I'm thinking the large black and red wires under the dash were a patch from the ALT gauge getting toasted from bad bulkhead connection. The extra start switch could be added due to ether ignition switch or neutral safety switch failing.
There was an aftermarket volt gauge in there
Is it not getting enough volts to start and when i arc the wires mabey sending a surge?
To try to start i have to turn key over but it wont crank ... i just turn the key and let it go and push the button.
You need to pull down the large flat coupler for the keyed ignition switch next to the steering column. That way you can test if it all works. I've had them go bad and not crank the starter when installed. (That could be your start problem that lead to a push button.)
You'll be checking to see if that switch is giving the dual function of start-run feeds to the coil also. (One way to verify is to buy a new column switch, plug it in and see what functions, they are about 35.00 from any parts store.) Find where that "green wire" you mentioned runs to and from.
Your car has been cobbled together electrically and you need to find out why. (Look for melted wires and bad connectors.) It may have been patched poorly with very little wrong or ready to really screw up and burn.
Post picks of starter relay and ignition wiring so we can see clearly what is going on under the hood. You may want to put a 30amp fuse between the big red and black wires rather than just sticking them together if your going to keep doing that. Be certain anytime you do start the engine that your battery is in 100% condition and fully charged so you don't over work the charging wiring from the alt. and make things worse.
Did you remove and check all bulkhead connections? Have you cleaned and checked all of the fuse block prongs and fuses?
Take your time, download wire diagrams and start learning the colors of what goes where.
Quote from: b5blue on April 21, 2014, 02:34:34 PM
You need to pull down the large flat coupler for the keyed ignition switch next to the steering column. That way you can test if it all works. I've had them go bad and not crank the starter when installed. (That could be your start problem that lead to a push button.)
You'll be checking to see if that switch is giving the dual function of start-run feeds to the coil also. (One way to verify is to buy a new column switch, plug it in and see what functions, they are about 35.00 from any parts store.) Find where that "green wire" you mentioned runs to and from.
Your car has been cobbled together electrically and you need to find out why. (Look for melted wires and bad connectors.) It may have been patched poorly with very little wrong or ready to really screw up and burn.
Post picks of starter relay and ignition wiring so we can see clearly what is going on under the hood. You may want to put a 30amp fuse between the big red and black wires rather than just sticking them together if your going to keep doing that. Be certain anytime you do start the engine that your battery is in 100% condition and fully charged so you don't over work the charging wiring from the alt. and make things worse.
Did you remove and check all bulkhead connections? Have you cleaned and checked all of the fuse block prongs and fuses?
Take your time, download wire diagrams and start learning the colors of what goes where. I posted a few pics of bulkhead and starter relay on 1st page. I think i heard the guy say the switch was bad so they added the button.
I think they bypassed ammeter with red and black wire and hooked it to a volt gauge but it wont start unless i arc the wires. The bulkhead had 1 bad place in it and that were green wire is put in the green wire goes from bulkhead to starter relay to starter and leads inside to the back of button .
I need to see under the hood in the engine compartment, what/how ignition and start relay are wired. :scratchchin:
Here is 1
The green wire curls around and has another green , yellow, and blue wire spliced into it. So 1 wire has 3 wires running from it. The other green wire goes to starter relay the yellow 1 runs under dash and goes to the push button and the blue wire runs down to the starter .
Green from start relay to pin "J" on bulkhead should be a fusible link so right now your feeding the system with no overload protection. That feeds the ALT gauge inside the dash with a #12 red wire. It is +12V to and through the Alt gauge and back into the harness from battery to run things before the engine is running and the alt. is outputting.
So there is your big red and black wires that are added. Fuse that green from relay to bulkhead or replace the fusible link.
On the bottom of the relay to the right is the ground connector for the NSS (neutral safety switch) just to the left is positive. The one on the left gets ground from a round 3 pin switch on the transmission only when in park or neutral. Test it to see if it is working, it should read to ground only in Park or Neutral shift positions. (With the shift in rev./drive it will be open....no reading.) The other 2 wires on that round tranny switch turn on the backup lights, we are not going to worry about that now.
The yellow wire is a jumper feed supplying +12V to ashtray switch for start so not is not fused ether. :scratchchin:
Starting to understand things better? Get me pics of how ignition is wired. :scratchchin: 70 had points so that has been changed and may not be correct.
Neal,
I made the same comments you did about the green wire and no fuse or fusible link way back in the early part of this thread. I'm not sure the OP understands what we are trying to tell him about the danger of burning his car up. I hope you can get him to understand. There are some pictures posted earlier in this thread that show a pretty hacked up wiring system. It looks like a typical 40+ year-old car that's gone trough multiple owners, some of which had little idea of what they were doing.
Right you are Pete! Safe not sorry, I have a bulk pack of fuses and 3 meters. I think we figured out what is failing here but chime in on anything you may think of. :2thumbs:
Ok so i need to put a fuse on green wire from bulkhead to starter relay? What bout the wires that are connected to it do i just leave them connected? I tested starter relay jus with key on and there only 1 place getting power the rest was showing no reading
Yes, you really do need a fuse in place of that green wire someone added. Go down to the local NAPA store and ask for a 50 amp blade type fuse. They are called Maxi-fuses and you can get a holder for them at NAPA also. The holder will have two heavy wires and you will cut the green wire at attach one end of the fuse holder wires to each end of the cut green wire. When someone added that green wire they left the car in a very dangerous condition. You could easily have a fire and burn up the car or all the wiring if something goes wrong. From the troubles your have reported things are already going wrong!
Next as Neal suggested it would be a good idea to get rid of that push button starter switch and get the ignition switch in the steering column wired in correctly. The switch itself may be bad as Neal mentioned and that is why someone added the push button. As Neal mentioned a picture of the ignition control box will show us what is on the car and we can tell you how to wire it up correctly so the car will start with the key.
Then we can go to work on the charging circuit if need be.
Ok great! Hoping to get this straightened out. So jus makin sure 1st thing i need to do is buy a 50 amp fuse and put it on the green wire that goes from bulkhead to starter relay? What about the wires that are connected to that green wire that lead to starter and the button do i just leave them connected for now?
Quote from: Charger_70 on April 22, 2014, 09:23:02 PM
Ok great! Hoping to get this straightened out. So jus makin sure 1st thing i need to do is buy a 50 amp fuse and put it on the green wire that goes from bulkhead to starter relay? What about the wires that are connected to that green wire that lead to starter and the button do i just leave them connected for now?
15amp fuse there.
Ok were does the 50 amp fuse go? I guess jus leave the other wires connected .
Put the 50 amp fuse between the starter relay stud and the other wires that are spliced into the green wire. When things get cleaned up and the car is back to starting on the ignition key, those wires to the push button will go away.
Are you up for replacing the ignition key switch if that is bad? Also, please post a picture of the electronic ignition box.
Yea i def want to be able to start with key. So a 50 amp fuse between bulkhead to starter relay ?
Quote from: b5blue on April 23, 2014, 07:13:58 AM
Quote from: Charger_70 on April 22, 2014, 09:23:02 PM
Ok great! Hoping to get this straightened out. So jus makin sure 1st thing i need to do is buy a 50 amp fuse and put it on the green wire that goes from bulkhead to starter relay? What about the wires that are connected to that green wire that lead to starter and the button do i just leave them connected for now?
15amp fuse there.
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Just to be clear the post on the start relay that has a red wire that comes from the battery and an added green wire: disconnect the green wire and put a 40-50 amp fuse from the post to the green wire.
For now remove the yellow wire (That feeds the start button switch in your ashtray.) from the green and put the 15 amp fuse on it then put it on the same post mentioned above, get me? :scratchchin:
So now you have:
Start relay post +12V Fused 40amp to green wire
Fused 15amp to yellow wire
Thanks for the posting Neal, I was just going to post a response on the fuses.
To Charger_70- The last group of pictures you posted still didn't show the ignition system. The one picture was of the voltage regulator for the alternator. Post some wider pictures of the whole engine compartment. Also, take the distributor cap off and show us what is underneath it. We still need to figure what kind of ignition system is in the car so we can tell you how to wire up the starting circuit and we still need to find out if the ignition switch needs to be replaced so it will start with the key.
The pictures of the wiring under the steering column will be the ones we will work with to test the ignition switch.
Quote from: b5blue on April 24, 2014, 08:17:46 AM
Just to be clear the post on the start relay that has a red wire that comes from the battery and an added green wire: disconnect the green wire and put a 40-50 amp fuse from the post to the green wire.
For now remove the yellow wire (That feeds the start button switch in your ashtray.) from the green and put the 15 amp fuse on it then put it on the same post mentioned above, get me? :scratchchin:
So now you have:
Start relay post +12V Fused 40amp to green wire
Fused 15amp to yellow wire
Ok this is what ive done. The green wire goes from bulkhead to starter relay I have put a 15 amp fuse there. The yellow wire hooks to it goes to the button Ijust spliced it back in green wire. Is this right so far?
No, not quite right!
You want the 50 amp fuse there. Read Neal's post again and you will see where the 15 amp fuse should go in the yellow wire.
Ok pics on the way. So the green wire from bulkhead to starter relay needs 50 amp and the yellow wire that connects to the same green wire needs the 15 amp fuse . So one 50 amp and one 15 amp will go on one wire the green 1
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Okay,
Thanks for the additional pictures. That blue box on the passenger side fender well is a Chrysler electronic ignition system. Now we know what is in the car and can tell you how to correctly wire the ballast resistor and the ignition switch.
Next question- Do you have a test meter and can you send a picture of it so we can tell you how to use it to test the ignition switch.
Ok I think were I have the 15 amp fuse needs to be a 50 amp. Something different happened I went to start vehicle by just holding wires together and it fired up!! but it would die as soon as it blew the fuse just went through 3 15 amp fuses. It use to not start unless I arced them but never start by just holding them together but now I just held them together and boom it started. It actually ran a few min on 1 of the fuses but as soon as it blew it died.
All i have is a tester that lights up if it has 6v to 12v .I hook it to ground and lights up if wire has power.
Ok. I think im understanding . On starter relay it has a wire from battery and the green wire on the same post. Take of green wire and the wire from my fuse holder connect one end to starter relay and the other end to the green wire and then take another fuse holder and put one end to green wire and the other end to yellow wire and the 15 amp fuse will go there right?
Both yellow and green "start" at the post with fuses, you want to get rid of extra patches and connections.
Get a meter. One for 8 bucks at Walmart is fine. You'll need it for any old car, more so the Charger! Order an FSM, disk version is like 30 bucks online.
That big relay hanging down above the Emr. brake is your headlight door control relay, take care of and with it. New Old Stock (NOS) go for 400.00 and reproduction ones are 75-80 buck if you can even find one. (They are on backorder for over 6mo. and may never be available again for all we know.)
If you don't have the money right now save up, we'll wait! Many Mopars have been lost to some of the crap you are messing with right now! If we can be sure how to help you much can be bypassed safely to get the car running but a cheap meter is mandatory, we can explain how and where to use it. (You'll be looking for resistance in wires, a sign of hidden problems.)
Quote from: b5blue on April 24, 2014, 10:11:59 AM
Both yellow and green "start" at the post with fuses, you want to get rid of extra patches and connections.
Get a meter. One for 8 bucks at Walmart is fine. You'll need it for any old car, more so the Charger! Order an FSM, disk version is like 30 bucks online.
That big relay hanging down above the Emr. brake is your headlight door control relay, take care of and with it. New Old Stock (NOS) go for 400.00 and reproduction ones are 75-80 buck if you can even find one. (They are on backorder for over 6mo. and may never be available again for all we know.)
If you don't have the money right now save up, we'll wait! Many Mopars have been lost to some of the crap you are messing with right now! If we can be sure how to help you much can be bypassed safely to get the car running but a cheap meter is mandatory, we can explain how and where to use it. (You'll be looking for resistance in wires, a sign of hidden problems.)
so what i mentioned above that is what im needing to do?
Quote from: Charger_70 on April 24, 2014, 09:53:03 AM
Ok. I think im understanding . On starter relay it has a wire from battery and the green wire on the same post. Take of green wire and the wire from my fuse holder connect one end to starter relay and the other end to the green wire and then take another fuse holder and put one end to green wire and the other end to yellow wire and the 15 amp fuse will go there right?
Yes, that will work. OR put both fuse holder wires to the starter relay stud. The 50 amp one will go to the green wire and the 15 amp one will go to the yellow wire. This is what Neal suggested and it will clean up the wiring a little.
As Neal said you will need to get a cheap little test meter. One from Wallmart or Harbor Freight will be fine. We can not really tackle the ignition switch with out that test meter.
Ok it has been done. Ive 2 fuse holders and put 1 end from both fuse holders on the starter relay. The other end of 1 fuse holder i hooked the green wire to it and the end of the green wire runs straight to bulkhead. The other end of the 2nd fuse holder i hooked to yellow wire and the other end of the yellow wire runs straight to the push button. Now there is another wire thats behind push button and it leads to starter itself is this wire ok? Now both fuse holders are in and still no start. This morn with 1 fuse holder it would start but it would blow the fuse and would quit . Now with both fuse holders on it does just like before if i keep movin 2 wires it act like its goin too but nothing.
There should be only two wires to the starter. One is a very heavy battery cable to the positive side of the battery. This cable is on the biggest stud on the starter. The second wire to the starter is on the smaller stud on the starter and should go to the stater relay on the fire wall. Those are the only two wires that should be on the starter. Are you saying you have more than these two wires?
Quote from: Pete in NH on April 24, 2014, 04:07:13 PM
There should be only two wires to the starter. One is a very heavy battery cable to the positive side of the battery. This cable is on the biggest stud on the starter. The second wire to the starter is on the smaller stud on the starter and should go to the stater relay on the fire wall. Those are the only two wires that should be on the starter. Are you saying you have more than these two wires?
I checked there are only 2 wires goin to starter BUT the 1 going from relay to starter has a splice in middle and it goes to behind the push button.
Well car started and the one of the 2 wires you have to put together got HOT again ... So out of frustration i traced these 2 wires to there location. The solid red 1 that has power leads to behind the bulkhead but there are a couple wires spliced into it but its not the one that gets hot on me. The other wire that has no power on it I traced it to a bunch of wires that look like they have been welded together on the ends or a really strong glue cause the ends wont move. On this wire there is a red and black wire comin from direction of firewall and there are 2 wires comin from inside the car and then theres the black wire that comes from them and thats the wire that gets HOT there are together .. the black wire has a splice on the end and they added a red wire to make it longer.
You think they tried to bypass ammeter and have done it wrong?
Your kinda "jumping ahead" by going right into starting the engine. Pete and I were trying get the wires sorted and safe first. No matter, if you jump the battery + to the resistor you'll hot wire bypassing the key. Use the pushbutton to crank it should run off the battery. If it keeps running you will have to undo the jumper to shut it off.
Quote from: b5blue on April 24, 2014, 06:10:37 PM
Your kinda "jumping ahead" by going right into starting the engine. Pete and I were trying get the wires sorted and safe first. No matter, if you jump the battery + to the resistor you'll hot wire bypassing the key. Use the pushbutton to crank it should run off the battery. If it keeps running you will have to undo the jumper to shut it off.
Ok what am I looking for when I do this? What is next? Im hoping to get car running and the 1 wire not get hot. If the car will run without getting hot then i will leave the push button at the moment but will change soon. Kinda go back and forth from working on this to brakes
Ok i ran jumper and car almost started. Battery weak so im charging it but i believe it was goin to start if it had another good crank and that was without key and holding 2 wires together .
Also i was wanting to mention. Ive looked at diagrams of bypass ammeter and one thing i noticed is there is a fuseble link goin from alternator to starter relay and mine doesnt have 1 it just runs straight from alternator to starter relay.
Never start the car without a fully charged battery. I can't stress that enough, all these problems could be from someone thinking that the car could recharge a low battery just one time and that is a BIG NO NO!
By jumping you will just run off battery leave R/B wires apart and taped off (No exposed copper or connections anyplace.) Your just going to see if the engine will keep running for more than a few minutes. You'll still be monitoring for hot wires or other problems so set the emergency brake firmly and be careful.
Quote from: Charger_70 on April 24, 2014, 10:16:02 PM
Also i was wanting to mention. Ive looked at diagrams of bypass ammeter and one thing i noticed is there is a fusible link goin from alternator to starter relay and mine doesnt have 1 it just runs straight from alternator to starter relay.
David,
Yes, we know there is no fusible link. We saw that in the pictures you sent. That is why we had you add the 50 amp fuse. The 50 amp fuse takes the place of the fusible link. The fuses we had you add will not fix the starting problems but , will keep your car safe while they are being fixed.
We have many more things to look at and fix before the car will start and run properly. From your pictures the wiring has been badly cut up and we need to get things back to where they should be.
You said there is a wire from the push button that is spliced into the wire from the starter relay to the starter. That should be a heavy brown wire and it should not have anything spliced into it. Disconnect the wire from the push button and use electrical tape to cover the bare spot on the brown wire. Also, tape the end of the push button wire. Lets start to fix the wiring and but it back to what it should be.
Ok. The diagram showed a fuseble link right at the alternator. It also showed the 1 you guys had me to add. Whats next that i need to do?
Hi David,
Lets make sure the fuses are in the right place before we go any further to make sure the wiring is protected from fire danger. Can you post a picture of the fuses you put in?
Also, we are at a point where we will need that test meter to look for short circuits. Did you get a meter yet?
Lets try to get the starter relay system working. Then we can move on to the ignition system. At that point the car should start and run. Then we can tackle the charging system.
Look at my last post about that extra wire spliced into the wire from the starter relay to the starter.
Will do.Is the meter i have ok? It just shows what wire has power and what dont it shows if a wire has 6v or 12v. I will try to get pics this afternoon. The reason i was wondering bout the alternator wire is it leads to the bulkhead and the diagram i looked at shows it connected to the starter relay with a fuseble link .
Quote from: Pete in NH on April 26, 2014, 07:00:52 AM
Hi David,
Lets make sure the fuses are in the right place before we go any further to make sure the wiring is protected from fire danger. Can you post a picture of the fuses you put in?
Also, we are at a point where we will need that test meter to look for short circuits. Did you get a meter yet?
Lets try to get the starter relay system working. Then we can move on to the ignition system. At that point the car should start and run. Then we can tackle the charging system.
Look at my last post about that extra wire spliced into the wire from the starter relay to the starter.
[/quo The wire that goes from starter relay to the starter and had a splice in it with a wire going from the push button to it. I took it off and taped it off but the car won't crank. There are 2 wires from that push button 1 goes to starter relay which i put a 15 amp fuseble link on and the 2nd wire was spliced in with the wire going from starter relay to starter. That i just removed but it won't crank.
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Okay on the fuses they look like they are in the right places. You could shorten the green wire to the fuse holder to make things a little more neat.
Yes, I know once you disconnected that wire tapped into the starter relay to starter wire the car would no longer crank. I think the way it was connected someone had used the push button to completely wire around the starter relay. That was not a good thing to do. There is way too much current in that circuit for the push button and it messes up the ignition start circuit We will be putting the starter relay back in the way it should be wired.
The next thing I need to know is if the car has an automatic transmission or is a manual.
We can go a few more steps with your test light but, very soon you will need a real meter. So, look to buy or borrow one.
Quote from: Pete in NH on April 27, 2014, 09:30:56 AM
Okay on the fuses they look like they are in the right places. You could shorten the green wire to the fuse holder to make things a little more neat.
Yes, I know once you disconnected that wire tapped into the starter relay to starter wire the car would no longer crank. I think the way it was connected someone had used the push button to completely wire around the starter relay. That was not a good thing to do. There is way too much current in that circuit for the push button and it messes up the ignition start circuit We will be putting the starter relay back in the way it should be wired.
The next thing I need to know is if the car has an automatic transmission or is a manual.
We can go a few more steps with your test light but, very soon you will need a real meter. So, look to buy or borrow one.
It is automatic. Ifound another wire connected to starter relay there is a red wire that comes from ignition switch and it connect to another red wire but there is a blue wire spliced in with them and it runs to starter relay and it is spliced to a brown with yellow trim wire.. On diagram it shows that the brown and yellow wire goes to neutral safety switch ?? I also took my gauge cluster and checked alternator gauge and hooked up the red and black wire to it to see if it done anything and when i turn key on the needle on gauge went to the left slightly and when i turn key off it goes back to middle.
David,
It's good to know the ammeter works and we can connect it, if you want to when we get to the charging circuit.
The brown/yellow wire ( the yellow stripe is called a tracer) is the neutral safety switch wire on an automatic trans. car. Are you saying it is spliced in with other wires? It should go to its own terminal on the starter relay.
The brown-yellow wire should go from the center pin of the neutral safety switch on the transmission to a pin on the starter relay. There should not be anything else connected to this wire.
Quote from: Pete in NH on April 27, 2014, 01:10:28 PM
David,
It's good to know the ammeter works and we can connect it, if you want to when we get to the charging circuit.
The brown/yellow wire ( the yellow stripe is called a tracer) is the neutral safety switch wire on an automatic trans. car. Are you saying it is spliced in with other wires? It should go to its own terminal on the starter relay.
The brown-yellow wire should go from the center pin of the neutral safety switch on the transmission to a pin on the starter relay. There should not be anything else connected to this wire.
Yes a blue wire is spliced from red wire from ignition switch and other end of blue wire is spliced to brown and yellow tracer wire and the end of the brown and yellow wire connects to starter relay
I found the 3 prong sticking from trans but no wires to it. What does a neutral safety switch do?
Also were it has 3 prongs and only 1 wire coming from relay ?
I went looking through the stuff that was in the trunk and actually found the connector that plugs in the trans and it has 3 wires coming out not sure bout other 2 wires
Some one has really hacked up that wiring system! I have no idea what they were thinking.
The neutral safety switch on an automatic transmission car does two things. One, as wired from the factory it will only allow the car to start if the transmission is in neutral or park. Two, as wired from the factory it operates the back up lights when the transmission is in reverse gear. I suspect the way your car is wired now it would start in any gear which is not safe.
Good to hear you found the connector because we want to put it back on. If you look at the wires on the connector the one going to the center pin should be what is left of that end of the Brown-yellow wire from the starter relay. The two outer pins are fro the back up lights and we'll try dealing with them later after the car is running.
From the pictures you sent, it looks like the brown-yellow wire goes to the starter relay terminal in the lower right corner. If there is enough of the brown -yellow wire connect it from that relay terminal to the center pin of the neutral safety and plug the connector back on the transmission.Then use your test light, put one end of the light on the positive battery stud on the starter relay (the one the fuses are on) and the other end of the light on the brown-yellow wire terminal. The light should only come on if the shift lever in in park or neutral.
We can get some of the basic stuff working on the car but, the more you find with the present wiring is telling me you are going to need to start saving up for some new wiring harnesses. This car has been badly hacked up and it's wiring is never going to be something you can really trust.
Ok will do 1st thing in morn. I also saw were the other 2 wires go ill have the switch hooked up 1st thing.
Pete and B5/ You guys are saints of some sort.
I've been following this thread since it started and um..... :2thumbs: :coolgleamA:
Nacho , there's probably a reason they removed trans start switch wiring, maybe bad switch, lead the young fella to test that for ground or you will just frustrate him with more issues,
You need to buy multi meter to test circuits properly ,
Starting to understand myself to the reasons it was hacked, all about starting issues and could have just been bad trans switch
Ok ive hooked up the neutral safety switch and i tested it and the light came on while it was in park. I talked to the old man i bought the car from he said before he had a stroke the car ran great and that he was fixing it up like interior ect ... and then after his stroke he was unable to work on it anymore. Then his boy done whatever he has done to it said his boy was gonna race it??? But he did say everything worked when he was driving it. But switch is hooked up and working.
David,
Okay, progress !
Next, put one end of your test light on ground and the other end on the yellow wire on the starter relay. From the pictures it looks like the yellow wire is in the lower left corner of the relay. When you use the key ignition switch and turn it to the start position the light should come on.
WARNING- The car may crank, start and run or it may not. If you don't want the surprise of it starting up pull the coil wire out of the center of the distributor cap. This test will tell us if the key ignition switch is good or if it is still wired in the circuit.
It makes sense that some one was building a race car. They don't care what the wiring is as long as it starts and runs. Building a race car often results in really cut up wiring because they don't care if all the normal stuff we like to have working in a passenger car works or not. But, it sure makes a mess for someone trying to make it back into a normal car.
Ok i will check as soon as storm passes
I checked and no light no crank or anything
I also checked the connector that the yellow wire runs too that is connected to the ignition switch. On ignition switch only wire that lit up was the black 1 and the connector that it connects too the only wire that lit up was the red 1 thats the connector coming from firewall
Okay, I'm not surprised the yellow wire to the relay has no power. Neal and I thought from the beginning there was a good chance the ignition switch was bad or not wired in.
On the ignition switch connector wire harness that plugs into the steering column, on one end of the connector there are two red wires side by side- do you have power on either one of them? Unplug the connector and use your test light on the connector that comes from the dash wiring.
The second red wire in from the end of the connector comes from the fuse block- are all the proper fuses in place?
We are really getting into where that test meter would be a big help, but, we'll see how far we can go with the light
Yes sir the 2nd red wire does have power and the connector it connects too the only thing showed power is the black wire.
Okay, I was afraid of that. It is likely the ignition switch in the steering column is bad. At this point we really need that meter to see if the switch is bad or you can just replace the switch which is going to be a bit of work.
Do you have the factory service manual for your car? If not I can scan the page on replacing the ignition switch form my 71 manual and Email it to you. It is likely the same. You will need a steering wheel puller. maybe your local auto parts place can lend or rent you one.
I'll do a little more research on testing the switch and let you know what I come up with.
i just had a thought on a simple way to check if the switch is bad. Take about an 8 inch piece of wire and strip a 1/2" of insulation on each end. Poke one end of that wire into the yellow wire position on the dash board side of the ignition switch connector. Poke the other end into that 2nd red wire position. If the engine starter cranks the wiring and starter relay are okay and the switch is bad.
I found out your 70 and my 71 use the same ignition switch so the procedure to change it should be the same . The switch and switch wire harness is all one assembly.
Quote from: Pete in NH on April 29, 2014, 04:27:45 PM
i just had a thought on a simple way to check if the switch is bad. Take about an 8 inch piece of wire and strip a 1/2" of insulation on each end. Poke one end of that wire into the yellow wire position on the dash board side of the ignition switch connector. Poke the other end into that 2nd red wire position. If the engine starter cranks the wiring and starter relay are okay and the switch is bad.
I found out your 70 and my 71 use the same ignition switch so the procedure to change it should be the same . The switch and switch wire harness is all one assembly.
Ok sorry for taking so long the weather has been horrible. I have not tried this yet but I checked the yellow wire on starter relay and it had a bad connection i fixed the wire and now the light comes on so I didnt try this cause the light came on. I also noticed now after i fixed the wire that when i turn the key i hear 2 clicks instead of 1. I hear the 1st click jus turning key then another click when i turn the key like im goin to start.
David,
I've heard about all that bad weather to the south, so I understand.
That is really great news about fixing the connection on the yellow wire. That second click may be the starter solenoid pulling in. Does the engine crank on that second click? I would try going into that second start position on the key ignition switch and seeing if the engine will crank.
I will be away from my computer tomorrow and Saturday but back Sunday. I should be around the rest of today if you get a chance to try cranking the engine.
Quote from: Pete in NH on May 01, 2014, 12:08:14 PM
David,
I've heard about all that bad weather to the south, so I understand.
That is really great news about fixing the connection on the yellow wire. That second click may be the starter solenoid pulling in. Does the engine crank on that second click? I would try going into that second start position on the key ignition switch and seeing if the engine will crank.
I will be away from my computer tomorrow and Saturday but back Sunday. I should be around the rest of today if you get a chance to try cranking the engine.
No sir jus clicks. When i turn key over it jus clicks 2 times
Also I was wondering after I unhooked that wire that was hooked from the push button to the starter makin the push button not to work can I go ahead and take it out? It had another wire that went to starter relay that I added the 15 amp fuseable link is it ok to do away with all of that now anything that goes to that push button ?
Yes, you can remove anything that has to do with that push button.
Put your test light right across the yellow wire and brown-yellow wire, if it lights when you turn the key to the start position next, put from the battery stud on the starter rely to a ground point. If it lights again the starter relay is very likely bad and I would replace it.
I checked yellow wire again and light came on. I also checked battery stud on starter relay and touched a ground and light came on. I thought with a test light if it was connected to a ground and you touched something positive that the light would turn on but also the light would turn on if you connected to positive and touched a negative that the light would turn on
Quote from: Pete in NH on May 01, 2014, 02:13:53 PM
Yes, you can remove anything that has to do with that push button.
Put your test light right across the yellow wire and brown-yellow wire, if it lights when you turn the key to the start position next, put from the battery stud on the starter rely to a ground point. If it lights again the starter relay is very likely bad and I would replace it.
Ok i think i miss understood. Do I check each wire individualy with test light hooked to a ground? I did check the battery stud on starter relay and touched a ground and light came on but thats were i thought it would anyways. Not 100% sure just wanted to make sure before i tried anything.
Put one side of the test light on the yellow wire right at the starter relay. Put the other end of the test light on the brown-yellow wire right at the starter relay. When you put the key ignition switch in the start position the light should come on and the engine should crank. The positive side of the light is coming from the yellow wire and the ground side of the light is coming through the brown-yellow wire from the transmission neutral safety switch. If the light comes on but the engine does not crank the relay is likely bad and I would replace it.
Quote from: Pete in NH on May 01, 2014, 04:37:14 PM
Put one side of the test light on the yellow wire right at the starter relay. Put the other end of the test light on the brown-yellow wire right at the starter relay. When you put the key ignition switch in the start position the light should come on and the engine should crank. The positive side of the light is coming from the yellow wire and the ground side of the light is coming through the brown-yellow wire from the transmission neutral safety switch. If the light comes on but the engine does not crank the relay is likely bad and I would replace it.
The light did not come on. When i hook the test light to neg post on battery and test each wire the light comes on with key turned to start.
Ok I just went and turned key and it cranked by turning key! But no start.
I also wanted to let you know that ive got to have the amp gauge hooked up for anything to happen if there not hooked up its like the car is dead nothing works but if the 2 wires are hooked up everything works.
David,
Okay, great! So glad you don't have to replace that ignition switch.
When you say everything works when you connect the ammeter do you mean the car starts and runs?
If so, we are almost there. As I said I will not be near my computer the next two days but, when I get back we will get that ammeter wiring in safely and you should be all set.
If the car does not run with the ammeter connected we will tackle the ignition system next.
Quote from: Pete in NH on May 01, 2014, 08:07:23 PM
David,
Okay, great! So glad you don't have to replace that ignition switch.
When you say everything works when you connect the ammeter do you mean the car starts and runs?
If so, we are almost there. As I said I will not be near my computer the next two days but, when I get back we will get that ammeter wiring in safely and you should be all set.
If the car does not run with the ammeter connected we will tackle the ignition system next.
I couldnt get it started tonight. If those are hooked up everything works headlights, taillights, ect if there not then nothing works car will crank but wont start.
Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious, just want to be sure you don't start a fire here.
When the ammeter is not connected then the black and red wires need to be connected to each other or you interrupt the circuit. If those wires are not connected to each other or by way of the ammeter here is no power going into the car. BUT the wires are live so if they touch ground, I hope the fuse catches it or you're going to be in for one hell of a light show.
Quote from: Dino on May 01, 2014, 08:33:42 PM
Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious, just want to be sure you don't start a fire here.
When the ammeter is not connected then the black and red wires need to be connected to each other or you interrupt the circuit. If those wires are not connected to each other or by way of the ammeter here is no power going into the car. BUT the wires are live so if they touch ground, I hope the fuse catches it or you're going to be in for one hell of a light show.
I have them connected to the ammeter now but right now if im not with it i unhook the battery. The thing i dont understand is if there hooked up to the gauge then everything has power... but i can check for spark from my coil and it doesnt spark but if i arc the wires then the coil wire will spark and usally the car will start.
Can I run the wire from alternator that runs to the bulkhead and run it to the battery stud on starter relay with a fuseable link and the 2 wires that connect to ammeter i can just put them together is that how you bypass it?
Yes, connect the red and black wires that go to the ammeter. You can definitely run a wire from the alternator to the starter relay stud. I have a 90 amp alt with a 6 ga wire running to the relay.
If you do this then technically you take the brunt of the load off the ammeter so it can remain hooked up, but it won't read right so you may as well ditch it.
You can always change the ammeter to a volt meter! :icon_smile_big:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,108698.0.html
Well I been checking connection and my ignition control module was bad so i changed it and it fired right up by the key and no wires got hot ... but im still gonna keep checking ...
Hi David,
It sounds like the car is running and starting with the key!
We can get the ammeter wired up safely if you want to keep it. If you keep the ammeter, it's a good idea to wire around the bulk head connector pins. Let me know if you want to keep the ammeter and I'll give you instructions to wire around the connector. If you have a stock type alternator keeping the ammeter is okay.
Quote from: Pete in NH on May 04, 2014, 01:27:59 PM
Hi David,
It sounds like the car is running and starting with the key!
We can get the ammeter wired up safely if you want to keep it. If you keep the ammeter, it's a good idea to wire around the bulk head connector pins. Let me know if you want to keep the ammeter and I'll give you instructions to wire around the connector. If you have a stock type alternator keeping the ammeter is okay.
As of right now I dont have it hooked up to the gauge but have them together. There are 2 wires that aint hooked up that idk were they go coming from bulkhead a violet and grey wire the diagram shows them goin to a circuit breaker. Is it safe just taking the wires that went to the ammeter and just put them together ?
The gray wire is likely for the factory oil pressure gauge and the violet for the factory temperature gauge. I noticed the add on gauge panel under the dash so the factory gauges may be disconnected.
The wiring is so cut up, I would not trust the factory ammeter wiring. I think it would be safer to run new wires from the alternator to the ammeter and then from the ammeter to the new 50 amp fuse you put in earlier.
As I've said before the best we are doing here is a patch job, the car really is going to need new wiring harnesses.
Do any of the factory gauges work?
Quote from: Pete in NH on May 04, 2014, 02:08:53 PM
The gray wire is likely for the factory oil pressure gauge and the violet for the factory temperature gauge. I noticed the add on gauge panel under the dash so the factory gauges may be disconnected.
The wiring is so cut up, I would not trust the factory ammeter wiring. I think it would be safer to run new wires from the alternator to the ammeter and then from the ammeter to the new 50 amp fuse you put in earlier.
As I've said before the best we are doing here is a patch job, the car really is going to need new wiring harnesses.
Do any of the factory gauges work?
Im def gonna start getting new wiring little at a time. On the gauges ive not hooked all up to see except for headlights, wipers and dome light and they all worked. The temp gauge that they installed works. I just feel more comfortable leaving the ammeter un hooked so i can keep an eye on those 2 wires maybe after i get a new wiring ill hook it back up i was jus makin sure it safe to just connect them together.
David,
Yes, it should be alright to connect the two original ammeter wires together. You have that new 50 amp fuse in the circuit and that should keep things reasonably safe. I would follow the two ammeter wires around under the dash and at least inspect them for missing insulation and splices that may not have been done correctly.