I am shopping big block strokers for my Charger. Below are specs of one I'm looking at. As I am new to this I would love to hear your thoughts on the build. Any thing I should be concerned about - and any questions I should ask?
512 Stroker
Stock 440 block, bored .030" over and decked to 10.700 (zero deck)
Scat Forged 440 crank .010/.010 (rotating assembly balanced)
440 Source Forged Rods
TRW Forged L2355-030 pistons
Sealed Power E-424K30 Pre-gapped rings (the big 5/64" kind)
Mopar performance P4120998 Windage Tray
3/8 Oil Pickup
High volume oil pump
Durabond PD-17 Cam Bearings
Calico Coated 1B527HD10 Rod Bearings
Calico Coated 5M877P10 Main Bearings
Wix 51515 oil filter
HP Distributor Gear
Hp Double Roller Timing Set
Summit Performance Damper
Comp Cams 23-228-4
Comp Hyd Lifters
Comp 7442-16 Pushrods
906 HP polished and match ported Heads
Fel-Pro 1009 Head gaskets
ARP145-3606 Head bolt set
High Performance Intake manifold high rise Victor 2954
ARP 444-2001 Intake manifold bolts
440 Source Rocker arms and hold down set
MSD 8546 Pro-billet distributor
Quickfuel 850 cab with nitrous plate
Edelbrock 1215 Intake valley pan gasket
Champion RC12YC plugs
Bake/blast and mag
Bore and hone
Deck to 10.700
Align Hone Mains
Jet Wash
Balance rotating assembly
Mount Pistons on Rods
Not sure what rods you're using with those pistons.
Seriously consider aftermarket aluminum heads.
Is the Scat crank used? If not, why 10/10? I'm assuming it's a 4.25 arm. 505 cu in.?
I'm going with..... It's not a stroker(or the pistons listed are incorrect).
One of the repair shops in town was commissioned to repair a customers stroker BB.
From what I gathered the guy bought the motor at a big Mopar car show...... Carlisle I believe.
He was told it was a "509".
He even had 509 call outs made for the hood scoop.
Well, I guess it ate a cam, the owner had someone swap the cam, which worked for a short while...... Then apparently more serious issues showed up.
Anyway, the shop here pulls the motor, pulls it apart...... It's just a 30 over 440 with a stock crank & rods, KB237 pistons and RPM heads.
I kept telling the guy working on it that "509" isn't really one of the BBM options.
I theorized it probably had a 509 cam in it, and someone was confused.
In any case, the bigger problem turned out to be a broken rod...... And yes, it was still running.
A 505 short block was built to replace the 446....... But the "509" call outs still aren't correct.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,124503.0.html
This is my proven 512 combo, I think it came out pretty good.
Quote from: BSB67 on February 03, 2018, 08:11:15 AM
Not sure what rods you're using with those pistons.
Seriously consider aftermarket aluminum heads.
Is the Scat crank used? If not, why 10/10? I'm assuming it's a 4.25 arm. 505 cu in.?
4.250" crank stroke
I-BEAM Rods with 7/16" Cap screws
Rod Length 6.800"
It is technically a 505
If you look up the c/h for the L2355 pistons......then figure out the deck clearance you'll have with a block cut to 10.700, and the supposed 4.25 stroke crank/6.800 rod combo.......you'll understand our confusion.
Quote from: Evoking on February 03, 2018, 09:58:03 PM
Quote from: BSB67 on February 03, 2018, 08:11:15 AM
Not sure what rods you're using with those pistons.
Seriously consider aftermarket aluminum heads.
Is the Scat crank used? If not, why 10/10? I'm assuming it's a 4.25 arm. 505 cu in.?
4.250" crank stroke
I-BEAM Rods with 7/16" Cap screws
Rod Length 6.800"
It is technically a 505
If you don't mind me asking here, who's making a
I-Beam Rod in 6.800" ?
Quote from: Evoking on February 03, 2018, 09:58:03 PM
Quote from: BSB67 on February 03, 2018, 08:11:15 AM
Not sure what rods you're using with those pistons.
Seriously consider aftermarket aluminum heads.
Is the Scat crank used? If not, why 10/10? I'm assuming it's a 4.25 arm. 505 cu in.?
4.250" crank stroke
I-BEAM Rods with 7/16" Cap screws
Rod Length 6.800"
It is technically a 505
Then your pistons will crash into the head by no less than a 1/4". Maybe your post was a typo, and you'll simply use the pistons that comes in the kit.
Why the 10/10 crank?
Quote from: Challenger340 on February 03, 2018, 11:00:33 PM
Quote from: Evoking on February 03, 2018, 09:58:03 PM
Quote from: BSB67 on February 03, 2018, 08:11:15 AM
Not sure what rods you're using with those pistons.
Seriously consider aftermarket aluminum heads.
Is the Scat crank used? If not, why 10/10? I'm assuming it's a 4.25 arm. 505 cu in.?
4.250" crank stroke
I-BEAM Rods with 7/16" Cap screws
Rod Length 6.800"
It is technically a 505
If you don't mind me asking here, who's making a I-Beam Rod in 6.800" ?
Especially ones that use Mopar rod bearings(CB527), and are set up for 1.094 pressed pins(to work with those L2355 pistons).
Here is the parts list of my 505 stroker. Roasts tires at will and very street friendly.
1975 440 block
Camshaft - Lunati 60312 Hyd Roller Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 231/239, Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .535/.550, LSA/ICL: 110/106, RPM Range: 2200-6200
Cam Button - Comp 206
Timing chain - Lunati 94225
Roller Lifters - Lunati 72338-16
Rocker Arms - Comp Roller Set 1621-16
Springs - Comp 925
Heads - Edelbrock 60929
Pushrods - Comp 7774
Bronze Dist/oil pump drive - Mopar P3690875
Head Bolts - ARP 145-3606
Main Studs - ARP 140-5401
440 Source Stroker kit - 440.512.5060
Pistons - 5060 4R 4L
Piston Rings - CR6490-35
Rods - 7.1"
Main Bearings - Clevite MS1795V
Rod Bearings - Clevite CB743HN
Cam Bearings - Clevite SH876S
Oil Pan - Summit 440 6 pack deep pan
Oil Pan Gasket - Fel-Pro 1834
Valve Cover Gasket - Moroso 93055
Valley Pan Gasket set - Fel Pro 1215
T-stat - Milodon 180 high flow 16406
Plugs - Champion RC-12YC
Windage Tray - 440 source for stroker
Bore - 4.350
Stroke - 4.25
Head Gaskets - Fel Pro Perma Torque 8519-PT
Carb - Proform 850 Black Street Series 67314
Intake - Holley Street Dominator HLY-300-14
Water Pump/housing - Mancini High Volume Kit MRE6900KAH
Quote from: PRH on February 04, 2018, 11:12:45 AM
Quote from: Challenger340 on February 03, 2018, 11:00:33 PM
Quote from: Evoking on February 03, 2018, 09:58:03 PM
Quote from: BSB67 on February 03, 2018, 08:11:15 AM
Not sure what rods you're using with those pistons.
Seriously consider aftermarket aluminum heads.
Is the Scat crank used? If not, why 10/10? I'm assuming it's a 4.25 arm. 505 cu in.?
4.250" crank stroke
I-BEAM Rods with 7/16" Cap screws
Rod Length 6.800"
It is technically a 505
If you don't mind me asking here, who's making a I-Beam Rod in 6.800" ?
Especially ones that use Mopar rod bearings(CB527), and are set up for 1.094 pressed pins(to work with those L2355 pistons).
Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at ?
There are these 5140 Chinese/speedmaster pieces from Source at 6.
760" stock length ? for CB527 on the Mopar B.E. width and pressed fit 1.094" ?
http://store.440source.com/Connecting-Rods-RB-with-Capscrew-bolts-Set-of-8/productinfo/200-1132/
But the above obviously ain't going to work on the 4.25" Crank Arm BB Chev 2.200" journal ?
or,
let be the comfort level with the 5140 for the application even if they were for a 2.200" journal/mopar width ?
I wouldn't be surprised if someone had a set of 6.800 rods that are Mopar big end(probably some old school things from "back in the day" that never got used)....... The press fit seems strange though..... But even of all of that is actually what they have...........if you try using those parts with a L2355 piston, it's going to stick out of the block about .290" at TDC.
The way I took the OP's first post, it was like he was looking at a motor for sale, and thats the parts list.
Quote from: PRH on February 04, 2018, 12:56:55 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if someone had a set of 6.800 rods that are Mopar big end(probably some old school things from "back in the day" that never got used)....... The press fit seems strange though..... But even of all of that is actually what they have...........if you try using those parts with a L2355 piston, it's going to stick out of the block about .290" at TDC.
The way I took the OP's first post, it was like he was looking at a motor for sale, and thats the parts list.
Must have been, because I think we all noted right at the outset the L2355 as a typo or something ?
QuoteI am shopping big block strokers for my Charger. Below are specs of one I'm looking at. As I am new to this I would love to hear your thoughts on the build. Any thing I should be concerned about - and any questions I should ask?
Here's one you can ask....... How do you use the TRW L2355 piston with a 6.800 rod and a 4.250 stroke crank, in a 440 block decked to 10.700, and not end up with it sticking out over a 1/4" at TDC?
My thoughts on the build are...... That's a list of parts that don't all fit together.
The OP took a Keyzer Soze.....POOF ! Gone! :shruggy:
Was on this site at 10:37pm tonight...
Quote from: PRH on February 04, 2018, 04:31:28 PM
QuoteI am shopping big block strokers for my Charger. Below are specs of one I'm looking at. As I am new to this I would love to hear your thoughts on the build. Any thing I should be concerned about - and any questions I should ask?
Here's one you can ask....... How do you use the TRW L2355 piston with a 6.800 rod and a 4.250 stroke crank, in a 440 block decked to 10.700, and not end up with it sticking out over a 1/4" at TDC?
My thoughts on the build are...... That's a list of parts that don't all fit together.
Yep, best thing to do is buy an actual stroker kit from 440 source or mancini racing so that you will have a matching rotating assembly and not piece together a frankenstien monster that will never work. 2355's are for a stock stroke 440 crankshaft and I didn't know anyone made an I beam rod for a BB mopar and they are junk anyway IMO. Had two small block mopar stroker engines and both had rod failure with the I beam rods. They were abused but if the owners would have bit the bullet and spent for the better H-beams the engines would still be running. They did get alot of nitrous sprayed on them and they lasted a couple years before failure so who knows. Anyway it's better to buy you a kit than to try and piece one together and probably cheaper too.....
I'm still here. Thanks for all the input. I have inquired about pistons and crank.
Why do you need a stroker? Are you drag racing?
There is virtually no cost difference in rotating assemblies from a 440 to a 572, so when starting from scratch, it pays to start with cubic inches. Think of it as free torque.
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on February 06, 2018, 12:02:49 PM
There is virtually no cost difference in rotating assemblies from a 440 to a 572, so when starting from scratch, it pays to start with cubic inches. Think of it as free torque.
Not sure I follow. Are you saying it pays to start with a bigger crank in a 440?
I was referring to pipeliners question of why you need a stroker. The rotating assembly for a 440 will cost the same as it will a 572, within reason. So assuming you used the exact same parts on the whole engine in a 440 vs a 572, the 572 will make more power amd do it at a lower rpm.... again, a very rough and basic example. But the bottom line is a stroker in a traditional street cammed build, will have vastly more low end torque then its stock stroke counterpart... a key for seat-o-pants street driving. Now im not saying to buy a 572, but maybe a 470 or 500. Depends on the end goal and combination.
Well there would be if he already had a rotating assembly for his 440. You can get all of the streetable power you want out of a 440 without stroking it. If I'm going to stroke an engine I'm going to go all out and I'm not going to run a weak, cheap,crap top end which seems like what most people do when they stroke one. If I was drag racing let's stroke it but I completely understand what you are saying about a complete rotating assembly if that's what he needs.
Quote from: pipeliner on February 06, 2018, 10:06:05 PM
You can get all of the streetable power you want out of a 440 without stroking it.
Maybe all that you want.
512 cid is awesome for a 4100lb street car.
Quote from: pipeliner on February 06, 2018, 10:06:05 PM
Well there would be if he already had a rotating assembly for his 440. You can get all of the streetable power you want out of a 440 without stroking it. If I'm going to stroke an engine I'm going to go all out and I'm not going to run a weak, cheap,crap top end which seems like what most people do when they stroke one. If I was drag racing let's stroke it but I completely understand what you are saying about a complete rotating assembly if that's what he needs.
The 1st sentence of the topic implies he is searching for an engine.
Your idea of streetable power and mine are drasticly different
Completly agree on the top end woes constantly seen on these boards on most builds.
Im more towards drag racing and currently have 9 second mph out of a stock stroke 440...
:iagree:
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on February 07, 2018, 06:59:26 AM
Quote from: pipeliner on February 06, 2018, 10:06:05 PM
Well there would be if he already had a rotating assembly for his 440. You can get all of the streetable power you want out of a 440 without stroking it. If I'm going to stroke an engine I'm going to go all out and I'm not going to run a weak, cheap,crap top end which seems like what most people do when they stroke one. If I was drag racing let's stroke it but I completely understand what you are saying about a complete rotating assembly if that's what he needs.
The 1st sentence of the topic implies he is searching for an engine.
Your idea of streetable power and mine are drasticly different
Completly agree on the top end woes constantly seen on these boards on most builds.
Im more towards drag racing and currently have 9 second mph out of a stock stroke 440...
I assumed he had a stock 440 and was looking at stroker assemblies. I know stroker motors put out monster loads of torque but it doesn't do much good in a street car if you can't get it to the ground and I'm guessing 7 out of 10 people can't get it to the ground so it's pretty much waisted power. I know how you racers think lol. And yes if he doesn't have a rotating assembly I can see going stroker.
Street Tires, yes these hook !!
Quote from: cdr on February 07, 2018, 10:40:10 AM
Street Tires, yes these hook !!
Those are sharp, you are well prepared lol except for the rain....
Quote from: pipeliner on February 07, 2018, 09:32:19 AM
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on February 07, 2018, 06:59:26 AM
Quote from: pipeliner on February 06, 2018, 10:06:05 PM
Well there would be if he already had a rotating assembly for his 440. You can get all of the streetable power you want out of a 440 without stroking it. If I'm going to stroke an engine I'm going to go all out and I'm not going to run a weak, cheap,crap top end which seems like what most people do when they stroke one. If I was drag racing let's stroke it but I completely understand what you are saying about a complete rotating assembly if that's what he needs.
The 1st sentence of the topic implies he is searching for an engine.
Your idea of streetable power and mine are drasticly different
Completly agree on the top end woes constantly seen on these boards on most builds.
Im more towards drag racing and currently have 9 second mph out of a stock stroke 440...
I assumed he had a stock 440 and was looking at stroker assemblies. I know stroker motors put out monster loads of torque but it doesn't do much good in a street car if you can't get it to the ground and I'm guessing 7 out of 10 people can't get it to the ground so it's pretty much waisted power. I know how you racers think lol. And yes if he doesn't have a rotating assembly I can see going stroker.
I would say more like 9 out of 10... the f70 14s wont hold a 275hp stock 440. Lets not try to split hairs here.