Hello,
I just joined this forum a few months ago, as I'm starting a project that has been in the family since '73ish. To start, I'm wondering how other members have found the original dealership that sold their cars.
A little back story, in the early seventies my mom and dad were swimming at a state park about 30 miles away; on their way home my dad saw the charger below going the opposite direction. As family lore goes, he spun his 62 Chrysler 300 sport around, chased the driver of the 500 down, flagged him over and told the driver if he ever sold the car to let my dad know. Contact info was exchanged, and a few years later the owner called and said he was selling the car. The car was purchased.
The 500 became more of a Sunday driver, than anything else (38,xxx currently on the odometer.) A few years later, between '79 and '80, (inspection sticker on the windshield is 1980), my mom used it one day to commute to the University of Pittsburgh; if you are familiar with Pittsburgh you know there are many many hills in the area, she didn't want to drive a manual transmission on the hills in the city, so she was told to 'just take the charger'. The car was parked in a valet lot and the valet requested that she leave the keys in the car. After her classes were finished for the day, she discovered that the car had been stolen out of the lot. My guess is the theft was a joyride, rather than an attempt to strip the car, as a few days later the car was wrecked on a local highway, allowing the family to get it back. It went into storage, after the accident and theft and really hasn't seen the light of day since.
My brother and I recently came to an understanding about what to do with the car, as my dad passed away in 97, and I am starting the process of repair and hopefully a full restoration. Current state of the car, is the frame is tweaked, which is why it went into storage, as a suitable frame shop couldn't be found. It has a 440 in it currently, but is an original hemi car. VIN: XX29J9B239411.
Now for the reason I am trying to find the original dealer, I was told the story of the dealership swapping the engine out, because someone wanted the hemi to race, i know that this probably means it is gone, but I want to at least try to find the original block. I don't know if the transmission or rear end is original, as i haven't had a chance to check the numbers.
Any info on the block or on how to find the original dealership would be greatly appreciated. It is in the registry, which allowed us, thanks to 69_500, to get the broadcast sheet for the car.
Thank you all in advance, hopefully this is posted in the correct place.
Also if there is anything I can do to aid in this community's quest to increase the information available on these cars I would be more than happy to do what I can, as I have already learned a wealth of knowledge through perusing past posts.
Apologies that photo is horribly distorted, still learning how to use this interface.
Welcome to the group
Nice to have a story to go with a car
Glad to see you posting here. The only shipment list known is in the possession of Galen G. Which has done less to impress the community as of late. That is a complete other story though.
Looking forward to seeing this car progress to being back on the road. Did you find a Yes on the driver side tail light?
It was a 'no'. I was was afraid that was the case for dealership question.
Quote from: goh2 on November 17, 2020, 06:08:32 PM
It was a 'no'. I was was afraid that was the case for dealership question.
the "NO" is merely there for not moving the trunk light tab
I would love to know the dealership that sold in my car I traced it all the way down to the second owner and at that point that's where it stop I found my car in Monongahela Pennsylvania
How did you trace the previous owners? I read about a federal law that prohibits State DMVs from disclosing vehicle ownership data, due to privacy concerns, which was passed in the late 90s and haven't come up with an idea on how to circumvent this yet.
As a side note the PennDOT does have a form to request information on a vehicle, DL-135 below, but I haven't sent it in to see what information comes back.
Form dl-135 available on PennDOT website
What paper work do you have with the car. Title can help sometimes. Some people get and keep a copy of the transfer titles so you may catch an owner or two. You might find registration cards. You might get an envelope with an original dealer address or one of those in between. One of my cars, I was able to trace to the dealership that sold the owner the car. My previous owner had the car for 40 years. Via internet I got the phone number of the son of the owner of the dealership since it was in owners name. Told me the story of how he remembers carrying boxes of paper work to the local trash yard for the city destroying all those records after dealership sold and father passed.
Envelope showed the car had a color change back then.
As far as Galen, on my other car it had his verification letter and showed a dealer that was in my area. Part of the reason I bought the car. I tracked down the Regional Dodge service rep for the area, former dealership owner himself, and now retired in FL. He gave me a bunch of info and was fun to listen to his stories. The only problem, the dealer ship listed on Galen's letter did not exist when the car was built. Became a dealership in mid 70s. When asked about the letter, his secretary said Galen had heard that was the dealership so he put it on the letter.
So take it for what it is worth, but some folks will do anything for money and will compromise at any level for it. Customer's that are selling a car, especially high end guys can pay the inspector for the results they want.
As of now I only have the title. I have been searching through pages of receipts and other docs that were kept from the seventies, but to date haven't had any luck finding anything that lists names or dates as it pertains to the car.
Quote from: goh2 on November 18, 2020, 08:58:04 AM
How did you trace the previous owners? I read about a federal law that prohibits State DMVs from disclosing vehicle ownership data, due to privacy concerns, which was passed in the late 90s and haven't come up with an idea on how to circumvent this yet.
As a side note the PennDOT does have a form to request information on a vehicle, DL-135 below, but I haven't sent it in to see what information comes back.
Some states, like N Carolina for example, still have the records and can do a search for you for a few dollars a name.
Here in Michigan, records at the DMV only go back 10 years I believe . . . :brickwall:
The gentleman I bought the car from gave me the name of the man he bought it from and then that guy gave me the next name and the next and that's where it's stopped. The third owner of gave me pictures of the car just after we had it painted my car was a triple black bench seat 4 Speed 383
anyone know where RM23V0A179708 is now? FJ5 Superbird out of PA
Oddly enough, I have heard rumors of two superbirds within 10 or so miles from me, but i have never seen them or met the owners of them. I've just heard rumors of the cars existence.
This whole fascination with finding the broadcast sheets, selling dealers, and fender tags has always reminded me of Leon Kowalski in Blade Runner. When Leon is sitting with Deckard, Leon has pictures from the past and he is attempting to demonstrate that he is not a Replicant.
I am not one to wish time away, but I look forward to the prices of our cars being worth 1/3 to 1/4 of what they are today. Younger people will want shared electric cars and us older folks will have self driving cars.
Should you believe a broadcast sheet makes you feel like your car is worth 10% more, spend away.
If someone has a list of Charger 500 selling dealers and someone wants the list, offer to buy the whole list from him. Pay his price. Otherwise I do not believe you have reason to be jealous, envious, or just plain bitter about something he owns. I don't think he owes anyone access to the list at all. If he wants to give it away, fine too. I don't like that perhaps he got people to send him broadcast sheets and and some people have said he now sells them, oh well. We have a speculating market, not a hobby, that we deserve IMHO.
I'm glad that most states do not give out records of old licence plates or titles. No one should have to worry that someone they do not want to see again has access to their records.
In 1993 David Patik said this about judging factory new standards for Superbirds; "No points are lost for a correct replacement engine, transmission or rear end; this assumes that the replacements were assembled in the correct model year, and are so marked. What is irreplaceably lost should not require fraud to compensate for fate."
Quote from: Redbird on November 18, 2020, 06:11:11 PM
This whole fascination with finding the broadcast sheets, selling dealers, and fender tags has always reminded me of Leon Kowalski in Blade Runner. When Leon is sitting with Deckard, Leon has pictures from the past and he is attempting to demonstrate that he is not a Replicant.
I am not one to wish time away, but I look forward to the prices of our cars being worth 1/3 to 1/4 of what they are today. Younger people will want shared electric cars and us older folks will have self driving cars.
Should you believe a broadcast sheet makes you feel like your car is worth 10% more, spend away.
If someone has a list of Charger 500 selling dealers and someone wants the list, offer to buy the whole list from him. Pay his price. Otherwise I do not believe you have reason to be jealous, envious, or just plain bitter about something he owns. I don't think he owes anyone access to the list at all. If he wants to give it away, fine too. I don't like that perhaps he got people to send him broadcast sheets and and some people have said he now sells them, oh well. We have a speculating market, not a hobby, that we deserve IMHO.
I'm glad that most states do not give out records of old licence plates or titles. No one should have to worry that someone they do not want to see again has access to their records.
In 1993 David Patik said this about judging factory new standards for Superbirds; "No points are lost for a correct replacement engine, transmission or rear end; this assumes that the replacements were assembled in the correct model year, and are so marked. What is irreplaceably lost should not require fraud to compensate for fate."
Accidently clicked the quote icon, did not mean anything else or emphasis.
I have my original broadcast sheet
Quote from: goh2 on November 17, 2020, 12:55:45 PM
Hello,
I just joined this forum a few months ago, as I'm starting a project that has been in the family since '73ish. To start, I'm wondering how other members have found the original dealership that sold their cars.
Welcome to the Board and the restoration of your 500.. This is the place to be to get information and the rights/wrongs of how to restore a 500 properly.. I have owned 4, currently working on my 4th.... You can see the thread in this Aero section...
Best of luck on bringing it back..... Oh, what is the color combination? 4speed is always nice. I have had 2 previous 4speeds..
Its R6 Red, with a white strip and black interior. Also it is an automatic. Over the past few weeks I have got it started, albeit using a gas can for the fuel supply. Next steps are to clean out the fuel lines and drop and clean the fuel tank, to enable easy movement between shop bays. Then to measure the frame and determine how far out of square the accident mentioned above shifted everything.
Where did your car get hit ?
One side only or right across the front ?
Quote from: Redbird on November 18, 2020, 06:11:11 PM
This whole fascination with finding the broadcast sheets, selling dealers, and fender tags has always reminded me of Leon Kowalski in Blade Runner. When Leon is sitting with Deckard, Leon has pictures from the past and he is attempting to demonstrate that he is not a Replicant.
I am not one to wish time away, but I look forward to the prices of our cars being worth 1/3 to 1/4 of what they are today. Younger people will want shared electric cars and us older folks will have self driving cars.
Should you believe a broadcast sheet makes you feel like your car is worth 10% more, spend away.
If someone has a list of Charger 500 selling dealers and someone wants the list, offer to buy the whole list from him. Pay his price. Otherwise I do not believe you have reason to be jealous, envious, or just plain bitter about something he owns. I don't think he owes anyone access to the list at all. If he wants to give it away, fine too. I don't like that perhaps he got people to send him broadcast sheets and and some people have said he now sells them, oh well. We have a speculating market, not a hobby, that we deserve IMHO.
I'm glad that most states do not give out records of old licence plates or titles. No one should have to worry that someone they do not want to see again has access to their records.
In 1993 David Patik said this about judging factory new standards for Superbirds; "No points are lost for a correct replacement engine, transmission or rear end; this assumes that the replacements were assembled in the correct model year, and are so marked. What is irreplaceably lost should not require fraud to compensate for fate."
Wow, Im not sure how to respond to this one.
BUT
I like knowing or having any of its history and having any paperwork from my cars past. I truly don't care it it adds value or not. As my car is absolutely not for sale . My 2 girls can fight over it once Im dead and gone.
Front photo
Quote from: 70 sublime on November 19, 2020, 01:32:54 PM
Where did your car get hit ?
One side only or right across the front ?
It was hit on the front passenger's side. Passenger's door won't close properly, I personally have never measured the car, but was told from relatives that the framing being bent was the reason it was put in storage, but i want to confirm for myself.
So once again, apologies about not knowing the interface too well. Discovered that photos taken vertically will appear 90 degrees out. Does anyone know how to rotate these on this forum? If not i will be sure to only post photos taken horizontally in the future.
Welcome to the forum.
At one time Doug Schellinger at the Daytona-Superbird Auto Club published diagrams showing the diagonal measurements from the underside for Chargers and Road Runners. Corners to corners, k-frame to rear frames, etc. I think that would be a good place to start doing the measurements from underneath.
try this
Not sure what i did but just saved it on my desktop and it showed up this side up
Quote from: goh2 on November 19, 2020, 03:14:02 PM
So once again, apologies about not knowing the interface too well. Discovered that photos taken vertically will appear 90 degrees out. Does anyone know how to rotate these on this forum? If not i will be sure to only post photos taken horizontally in the future.
you can use microsoft paint to do basic editing. it should be pre-installed on any windows system
Quote from: 70 sublime on November 19, 2020, 04:38:06 PM
try this
Not sure what i did but just saved it on my desktop and it showed up this side up
I think the water bottle is on the wrong side :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big:
Good luck on your resto, welcome to the site!
The photos were all uploaded through my phone...thinking about it that may be what is doing it.
As for the water bottle, I will be sure to check the manual to be sure its properly placed. ;)
Quote from: Redbird on November 19, 2020, 03:46:10 PM
Welcome to the forum.
At one time Doug Schellinger at the Daytona-Superbird Auto Club published diagrams showing the diagonal measurements from the underside for Chargers and Road Runners. Corners to corners, k-frame to rear frames, etc. I think that would be a good place to start doing the measurements from underneath.
If frame measurements are needed, email me at superbirdclub@yahoo.com and I help.
Quote from: Aero426 on November 20, 2020, 12:08:27 PM
Quote from: Redbird on November 19, 2020, 03:46:10 PM
Welcome to the forum.
At one time Doug Schellinger at the Daytona-Superbird Auto Club published diagrams showing the diagonal measurements from the underside for Chargers and Road Runners. Corners to corners, k-frame to rear frames, etc. I think that would be a good place to start doing the measurements from underneath.
If frame measurements are needed, email me at superbirdclub@yahoo.com and I help.
Will do thank you.
If you have the original window sticker there will be a dealer code on the top part of the sheet. It's a 5 digit code. A friend of mine who works for Chrysler showed me pictures of dealer names on sheets that showed all the dealerships and codes. I asked him if he was interested in donating the paperwork , but never got back to me on that. These were codes of dealerships from back in the day. I contacted a person that has a website that archives dealer info, vehicle options , original service bulletins, assembly line photos etc asking if he would be interested if my friend donated this paperwork to him and he stated that he did not not want it. Was a little surprised . This would be very valuable to further our hobby.
R6 500 red interior I think
Welcome.
All too common for Hemi's to end up in race cars or engined swapped. That was a common thing in the 60s and 70s. Matching numbers didn't mean anything.
Modern body shops can straighten your frame without too much difficulty. From there it will be regular body work and bolt on stuff.
My Superbird is being done at Iron Stable Garage, LLC in Clearwater FL. They are doing a nice job on the east coast of service, repair, and restoration of Muscle and Classic cars. You can google them. I met them through a Body Shop were they had taken a Boss 429 (my car was at the same shop). They're now doing my mechanicals and re-assembly.
Quote from: goh2 on November 20, 2020, 12:07:53 PM
The photos were all uploaded through my phone...thinking about it that may be what is doing it.
As for the water bottle, I will be sure to check the manual to be sure its properly placed. ;)
Yep, the water bottle may go on this side.
My 500 was sold new at Beaverton Dodge in Beaverton, OR. Even have a set of license plate frames from there on the car.
Jay Phillips newspapers archive guru matched up alot of vintage to current owners
Thank you all for your input, does anyone have contact info for jay phillips? I did a google search and came up with a comedian with the same name.
As for the inverse photo that is messing with me :o.
As an update on the project, I pulled the fuel tank out and cleaned out the forty year old sludge, bought a junkyard radiator, which is not correct for the car, just for something to put in to move the car around, but have slowed down progress due to cold weather and not being able to take the kids into the shop. Looking forward to some time off between Christmas and new years to get the car moving under its own fuel supply and have some form of cooling.
As for the engine, yeah its definitely a long shot but worth some time and research to try and find it. keeping my fingers crossed its sitting in a corner in someone's shop somewhere. Also checked the numbers on the block that's currently in the car, it matches a Daytona that was sold in North Vernon Indiana, which adds to some of the confusion because family lore says the car came from somewhere near Johnstown PA.
Forgot to post the vin on the engine, its stamped 355115
Quote from: goh2 on December 17, 2020, 06:16:27 PM
Forgot to post the vin on the engine, its stamped 355115
Welcome to the board and best of luck getting your 500 up and running again. The chassis doesn't look too bad in the photos you've shown, shouldn't be a problem getting it back where it should be.
Question for you, will you be looking to put a Hemi back under the hood or will you keep the 440?
Quote from: charger500440 on December 18, 2020, 10:29:07 AM
Quote from: goh2 on December 17, 2020, 06:16:27 PM
Forgot to post the vin on the engine, its stamped 355115
Welcome to the board and best of luck getting your 500 up and running again. The chassis doesn't look too bad in the photos you've shown, shouldn't be a problem getting it back where it should be.
Question for you, will you be looking to put a Hemi back under the hood or will you keep the 440?
As of now I'm not sure, seeing the prices of hemi components I'm thinking that to assemble a motor from scratch may cost slightly less than the whole restoration. It will depend on funds at that time.
Understood, and you're probably correct. Either way, it'll be an awesome vehicle when done. Thanks for sharing, looking forward to seeing more photos down the road...