Just saw this on Facebook and thought I would drop it here.
:2thumbs: :coolgleamA:
:cheers:
It's really neat to see the old racing stars of the past with the race cars they drove back in the day...... :2thumbs:
Much research needs to be done before they do anything to the car. Much of that involves searching for period photographs from 1969 and Feb of 1970. If the car is indeed the one Hylton self built (as it appears to be) , it is considerably different than what a Nichels built car looks like under the skin. At Carlisle, they have already advertised that it was a Nichels car, which lacking certain major design features, it isn't. Hopefully, they do not press the easy button and copy features from cars that are already out there.
The Daytona Archives have pics of it with hood up, at Talladega , fall of 69.
I told Bill Rossi about this a while back...
I guess I dropped the ball on the research of the car. I had no intention of spending a ton of money to do the car. I contacted Daytona but had to pay for research and photos. Just never did it. I am sure current owners will do their best to be sure of the history behind the car. They don't seem like the type to fabricate a lie.
Quote from: wingman(22) on August 06, 2015, 09:50:43 PM
I guess I dropped the ball on the research of the car. I had no intention of spending a ton of money to do the car. I contacted Daytona but had to pay for research and photos. Just never did it. I am sure current owners will do their best to be sure of the history behind the car. They don't seem like the type to fabricate a lie.
Not suggesting they are lying. But they need to take their time. Going through the ISC photo vault isn't cheap. They don't give you anything. But they will have material on the car. The under hood shot would be gold to have.
Quote from: wingman(22) on August 06, 2015, 09:50:43 PM
I guess I dropped the ball on the research of the car. I had no intention of spending a ton of money to do the car. I contacted Daytona but had to pay for research and photos. Just never did it. I am sure current owners will do their best to be sure of the history behind the car. They don't seem like the type to fabricate a lie.
Key word: research!
The photos I have don't agree with this present car. as far as the story of James building it himself is embellished by a scribbler like Petty's building their own Superbirds. you could buy a Nichels car in any stage of completion The pics I have from 69' show a Nichels chassis being finished like Pettys and others did. I've seen this car in question personally and took my own photos. i think it's going to be next to impossible for them to prove anything either way.
Just think of the questions about all of the restoration, reproductions, tribute cars ect. that could be instantly cleared up if ISC wasn't so stingy with their photo archives. What are the keeping it under wraps for. We few old timers are the only ones who give 2 s##ts about the accuracy of these cars. They could gain a little favorable PR if they would work with instead of against all the independent restoration efforts instead of making us comb through old magazine articles ,personal photos and an ever diminishing pool of people who remember what went on in the day.
Here are the photo proofs of under the hood, taken at Talladega, Sept. 1969.
All "new owner" has to do is call up ISC, refer to the proof number and which pics they want at $25. each.
I can see the hinges are stock B body, not like a "real" Nichels Engineering built machine.
I have seen a few vintage pics showing the same hinges. one does not easily swap hinges between cars, so most likely its the same car in those pics.
I agree that you could buy a car in any state of completion.
Perhaps wingcarbuilder can post vintage vs today of certain pics that might help shed some light? :2thumbs:
I agree, hopefully the new owner will research it properly. One the things I've always wondered about the Hylton Daytona is the car started out with side glass. by the Charlotte National 500 race it was gone. and at the end of season at Texas. James sells the car to Tab Prince, car has all side glass back in. Was the glass put back in? was it really the Daytona Prince bought? or was the Charger 500 in the garage at the same time in 69 have the wing and front clip put on it? James had 2 cars at the same time for sure it is a proven fact. also the fuel inlet looks different to.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/Hylton-Retires-From-Racing-665x385_zpskc5jqkrj.png) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/Hylton-Retires-From-Racing-665x385_zpskc5jqkrj.png.html)
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/isaachylton_zpshzgxqnoc.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/isaachylton_zpshzgxqnoc.jpg.html)
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/hyltoncharger48_zpsz7odj8q0.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/hyltoncharger48_zpsz7odj8q0.jpg.html)
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/hylton%201969%20Texas%20500%20James%20Hylton_zpsdooxvcnj.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/hylton%201969%20Texas%20500%20James%20Hylton_zpsdooxvcnj.jpg.html)
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/james%20hylton%20cleaned%20up%202_zpsh7yiczj4.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/james%20hylton%20cleaned%20up%202_zpsh7yiczj4.jpg.html)
You can see the modified hinges. look like the springs are reversed. Nichels used Dodge Dart hinges I believe.
Prince at Daytona. Glass back in.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/talmadge_prince_c3_zpscqzyy4e8.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/talmadge_prince_c3_zpscqzyy4e8.jpg.html)
With the inner and outer door shell being split into two halves, The side glass remove and install is easy to perform on the race car.
Trouble I had was matching things up and couldn't. now, I know this thing has had a long hard life. the original car appears to have a Nichels firewall. the car now is similar but the horizontal line that's bead rolled on it goes all the way across not having a space in it. also shock location is totally different compared to the photos I took personally. could've been changed over the years. but frame rail looks narrower.
This is the other photo taken on same day at James' shop by Mike Ashley. note the firewall, also Daytona was a wet sump.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/james%20hylton%20daytona%20hub%20shot_zpsknmizqd9.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/james%20hylton%20daytona%20hub%20shot_zpsknmizqd9.jpg.html)
photo I took.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/Carols%20album%201%20393_zpsy9wuwngp.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/Carols%20album%201%20393_zpsy9wuwngp.jpg.html)
now to add something more to the mystery, here is a Charger 500 that was inside the shop same day. I believe this was his former Riverside car. Wonder where this car went? james jumped ship to Ford shortly afterward.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/james%20hylton%20clean_zps3b0pib4y.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/james%20hylton%20clean_zps3b0pib4y.jpg.html)
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/hulton%20charger%20rir%20open%20hood_zpsktqenij9.png) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/hulton%20charger%20rir%20open%20hood_zpsktqenij9.png.html)
The firewall is really a tell all IMO. The current car does not have a Nichels one, but a hand fabbed piece. The ribs aren't even close, like the original car shows. The suspension also backs up the fact that these are two different chassis. Unless the understood bars and firewall were changed out, which doesn't look that case from the pics.
Actually it is a Nichels firewall. I forgot I had a photo of a Nichels road runner under construction in my archives. this is P-94 note the horizontal bead has no space. it runs solid all the way. why there are 2 styles is beyond me.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/nichels%20build_zpsalcntnxe.png) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/nichels%20build_zpsalcntnxe.png.html)
Quote from: Stevearino on August 07, 2015, 12:10:21 PM
Just think of the questions about all of the restoration, reproductions, tribute cars ect. that could be instantly cleared up if ISC wasn't so stingy with their photo archives. What are the keeping it under wraps for. We few old timers are the only ones who give 2 s##ts about the accuracy of these cars. They could gain a little favorable PR if they would work with instead of against all the independent restoration efforts instead of making us comb through old magazine articles ,personal photos and an ever diminishing pool of people who remember what went on in the day.
Vanity. They'll take those secrets with them to their graves and they wouldn't have it any other way...
Actually, no vanity involved.
Any of their photos are available to the public for $25. each.
The 3 Hylon pics I posted above would be 75. I think a guy would get at least that one bottom pic.
If you think you have that car, what price is it worth to you to document it?
Granted, it would be cool if ALL those old pics were on the net someplace, for free!
Sadly, they find their way to ebay. nothing I love more than a grainy pixelated photo for $10.00
Quote from: odcics2 on August 09, 2015, 01:13:13 PM
Actually, no vanity involved.
Any of their photos are available to the public for $25. each.
The 3 Hylon pics I posted above would be 75. I think a guy would get at least that one bottom pic.
If you think you have that car, what price is it worth to you to document it?
Granted, it would be cool if ALL those old pics were on the net someplace, for free!
Well that is a better deal than it has been in the past. I was doing some research for a poster I was working on with all of the Daytona 500 winners on it back in the early 90's. I couldn't find a picture of Marvin Panches Smokey Yunick car that won in I believe 1963. I could only rent the picture and it cost me $50.00 and had to sign an agreement not to copy the photo.
Quote from: Stevearino on August 09, 2015, 06:12:51 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on August 09, 2015, 01:13:13 PM
Actually, no vanity involved.
Any of their photos are available to the public for $25. each.
The 3 Hylon pics I posted above would be 75. I think a guy would get at least that one bottom pic.
If you think you have that car, what price is it worth to you to document it?
Granted, it would be cool if ALL those old pics were on the net someplace, for free!
Well that is a better deal than it has been in the past. I was doing some research for a poster I was working on with all of the Daytona 500 winners on it back in the early 90's. I couldn't find a picture of Marvin Panches Smokey Yunick car that won in I believe 1963. I could only rent the picture and it cost me $50.00 and had to sign an agreement not to copy the photo.
Progress!! :2thumbs:
Look at the differences in the upper control arm mounts between the pics posted.
Nichels firewall.
Wicked stuff!!!
#48 Daytona is back again...(which one) :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
If they is/were Charger 500's and/or, 68/69 Chargers, then, are they Daytona's?
A category should be 'designated' for ex-race Wingcars...Calling them Daytona' and Superbirds isnt strictly true???
I thought that the #48 car may be the 'only ever' real race Daytona, but obviously NOT!!!
TONA's and BIRD's does it for me lol...
There are so few REAL RACE WINGCARS remaining, that anything and everything should be saved and restored (as best as poss.) :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Well done for brave Folks who risk their hard earned cash and reputations on beloved Mopar ex RACE-WINGCARS...
Too much flak and negativity is bad for these 'nearly' 50 year cars and their owners.
GIVE THESE GUYS/CARS A BREAK, POSITIVE THINKING IS NEEDED AT ALL TIMES... :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
NuFF SaiD, 5J
Quote from: wingcar builder on August 09, 2015, 10:24:45 AM
Actually it is a Nichels firewall. I forgot I had a photo of a Nichels road runner under construction in my archives. this is P-94 note the horizontal bead has no space. it runs solid all the way. why there are 2 styles is beyond me.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/nichels%20build_zpsalcntnxe.png) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/nichels%20build_zpsalcntnxe.png.html)
zoom in on the firewall. it does match this firewall in this road runner being built at Nichels. this is chassis P-94 must be the next one built after the #88 Daytona chassis. but note the horizontal line goes all the way across with no space behind where Hemi valve cover would be. if the chassis in question is a Hylton car then it could only be the Charger 500 not the Daytona.
The horizontal line that you are referring to goes all the way across on the original Hylton daytona as well. You can see it in the pic you posted if you look closely. It is however, not as pronounced behind where the valve cover rests, which is correct. I have seen this on many Nichels cars built between 68-70. The firewall on the car CLAIMING to be the Hylton daytona has a firewall I have never seen before and would bet it is hand made. I would like to see a matching firewall from another Nichels car if that is not the case. What it does say, is the car CLAIMING to be the Hylton-Prince daytona is likely another chassis (non daytona), like you posted. In addition, if you look at the cage bar that goes from the upper passenger hoop diagonally down and back, it is set back on the main top hoop exactly like the non-daytona Hylton had.
Quote from: odcics2 on August 10, 2015, 02:12:22 AM
Nichels firewall.
When was that car built? all the later (68-70) Nichels built firewalls I have seen carry the same stamping.
Quote from: 1RareBird on August 10, 2015, 09:49:15 AM
Quote from: odcics2 on August 10, 2015, 02:12:22 AM
Nichels firewall.
When was that car built? all the later (68-70) Nichels built firewalls I have seen carry the same stamping.
This photo is from July 1969.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/nichels%20build_zpsalcntnxe.png)
Quote from: 1RareBird on August 10, 2015, 09:43:13 AM
In addition, if you look at the cage bar that goes from the upper passenger hoop diagonally down and back, it is set back on the main top hoop exactly like the non-daytona Hylton had.
Very odd. Not the way Nichels would have done it.
Another odd feature. On Nichels built cars, the stock inner door jamb was cut away and replaced with a piece of flat sheet metal. This car still has the stock jamb.
Sway bar mounting bracket on this car is different than the photo of the Daytona shown outside the shop. As mentioned, it appears Mike took the photos on the same day. So to mention it again, there are three cars shown in the photos - the 1967 Charger & Daytona outside the shop and the 69 Charger 500 inside the shop.
Looks like might have a winner. the car in question i'm sure is the Charger 500 not the Daytona.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/hylton%20bar_zpsyggzm1ya.png) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/hylton%20bar_zpsyggzm1ya.png.html)
And check out the hood hinges... Nichels (modified A body) vs what looks like a B body hinge on the various Hylton cars. Not something you'd swap around.
Quote from: Aero426 on August 10, 2015, 02:41:41 PM
Sway bar mounting bracket on this car is different than the photo of the Daytona shown outside the shop. As mentioned, it appears Mike took the photos on the same day. So to mention it again, there are three cars shown in the photos - the 1967 Charger & Daytona outside the shop and the 69 Charger 500 inside the shop.
That sway bar mount caught my eye earlier and if there is a picture of that area on the car in question that also might help to clarify things.
The cage seems to match the 500. One question I have that has nothing to do with verifying the car as the 500 or Daytona. Why was the top half of the cage cut off and than sleeved back together? :shruggy:
James claims to have altered that support bar himself. said car flexed to much
Perhaps the car was cut/sleeved to accommodate a newer, shorter, smaller body? I know some cars that hard their cage sections even replaced to accommodate them. Just a thought.
In addition, I wonder what the current owner would think if they saw these pictures Wingcar Builder posted. It's pretty difinitive proof in my eyes, but who know what proof they are going off of to believe it is what they think.
Quote from: 1RareBird on August 10, 2015, 06:40:50 PM
Perhaps the car was cut/sleeved to accommodate a newer, shorter, smaller body? I know some cars that hard their cage sections even replaced to accommodate them. Just a thought.
In addition, I wonder what the current owner would think if they saw these pictures Wingcar Builder posted. It's pretty difinitive proof in my eyes, but who know what proof they are going off of to believe it is what they think.
Having unknowingly restored a car to something it probably wasn't (A 1974 Chevy Laguna Bobby Allison car that most likely was a Donnie Allison Digard car)I have strong feelings about making this a Hylton Daytona if it never was. Better to restore it to a Charger 500 if that is what it proves out to be. Are there any Charger 500 racecars restored?
Quote from: Stevearino on August 10, 2015, 06:51:38 PM
Are there any Charger 500 racecars restored?
Zip. Zero. Nada.
Quote from: wingcar builder on August 09, 2015, 10:24:45 AM
Actually it is a Nichels firewall. I forgot I had a photo of a Nichels road runner under construction in my archives. this is P-94 note the horizontal bead has no space. it runs solid all the way. why there are 2 styles is beyond me.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/nichels%20build_zpsalcntnxe.png) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/nichels%20build_zpsalcntnxe.png.html)
I love the sheetmetal work.
Quote from: Stevearino on August 10, 2015, 06:51:38 PM
Quote from: 1RareBird on August 10, 2015, 06:40:50 PM
Perhaps the car was cut/sleeved to accommodate a newer, shorter, smaller body? I know some cars that hard their cage sections even replaced to accommodate them. Just a thought.
In addition, I wonder what the current owner would think if they saw these pictures Wingcar Builder posted. It's pretty difinitive proof in my eyes, but who know what proof they are going off of to believe it is what they think.
Having unknowingly restored a car to something it probably wasn't (A 1974 Chevy Laguna Bobby Allison car that most likely was a Donnie Allison Digard car)I have strong feelings about making this a Hylton Daytona if it never was. Better to restore it to a Charger 500 if that is what it proves out to be. Are there any Charger 500 racecars restored?
:iagree: a restored 500 race car would be awesome if that is what this car is.
Yum Yum :drool5:
Not saying this is a resto, ...just :drool5:
(http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac190/thehemikid/Aero%20pics/1%20blue%20race_zpshtvvajwc.png)
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/jameshiltoncharger_zpsf3mpghey.png) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/jameshiltoncharger_zpsf3mpghey.png.html)
Wishing.....
interesting , a C500 :o wonder if it started out as a 68
http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/shake-and-bake/don-t-hate-only-48-more-days-until-the-daytona-500-on-fox-010614
Quote from: tan top on August 14, 2015, 07:20:15 AM
interesting , a C500 :o wonder if it started out as a 68
http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/shake-and-bake/don-t-hate-only-48-more-days-until-the-daytona-500-on-fox-010614
would say it probably did. still have more photos to go thru I just received.
Quote from: tan top on August 14, 2015, 07:20:15 AM
interesting , a C500 :o wonder if it started out as a 68
http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/shake-and-bake/don-t-hate-only-48-more-days-until-the-daytona-500-on-fox-010614
What's up with the pass side main cage bar between those 2 photos? :shruggy:
2 different cars, me thinks!! :Twocents:
RH side shot of the damage from Baker at Texas. Mike Ashley photo.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/h8_zps7icncq0l.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/h8_zps7icncq0l.jpg.html)
Some Outstanding history has surfaced on this Chassis....Stay tuned.
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Quote from: wingcar builder on October 13, 2015, 12:14:36 PM
Some Outstanding history has surfaced on this Chassis....Stay tuned.
It's Lee Petty's Daytona 500 winner?? :shruggy: :o :lol:
BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!! :2thumbs:
I knew it - it's a Richard Petty Superbird!
Isn't that what every 66-74 Mopar chassis really is? IIRC, Petty's crew was rotating through the chassis of every other Mopar team in the field at the time. Each week they would run another team's chassis as their own. The order came from Mopar itself, so that 50 years later everyone could restore them all as #43 birds.
------------------------------------
Man, the drivers were always sitting down so low in those cars.
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=119282.0;attach=245151;image)
Quote from: wingcar builder on October 13, 2015, 12:14:36 PM
Some Outstanding history has surfaced on this Chassis....Stay tuned.
:o ..... :popcrn: :popcrn: :yesnod:
Quote from: tan top on October 14, 2015, 09:15:23 AM
Quote from: wingcar builder on October 13, 2015, 12:14:36 PM
Some Outstanding history has surfaced on this Chassis....Stay tuned.
:o ..... :popcrn: :popcrn: :yesnod:
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :nixon:
Did the car spend some time near El Paso?
:popcrn:
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on October 14, 2015, 08:12:08 AM
I knew it - it's a Richard Petty Superbird!
Isn't that what every 66-74 Mopar chassis really is? IIRC, Petty's crew was rotating through the chassis of every other Mopar team in the field at the time. Each week they would run another team's chassis as their own. The order came from Mopar itself, so that 50 years later everyone could restore them all as #43 birds.
------------------------------------
Man, the drivers were always sitting down so low in those cars.
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=119282.0;attach=245151;image)
Lower driver, better handling! Hey, it all adds up!
Or they were all set up for Buddy Baker.
Quote from: Ghoste on October 15, 2015, 05:03:08 AM
Or they were all set up for Buddy Baker.
:smilielol:
Quote from: wingcar builder on October 13, 2015, 12:14:36 PM
Some Outstanding history has surfaced on this Chassis....Stay tuned.
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Quote from: odcics2 on October 13, 2015, 02:41:42 PM
Quote from: wingcar builder on October 13, 2015, 12:14:36 PM
Some Outstanding history has surfaced on this Chassis....Stay tuned.
It's Lee Petty's Daytona 500 winner?? :shruggy: :o :lol:
BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!! :2thumbs:
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :icon_smile_blackeye: :drool5: :drool5: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :shruggy: :shruggy: :shruggy: :shruggy: :shruggy: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :popcrn:
Quote from: djcarguy on October 17, 2015, 10:52:21 AM
Quote from: odcics2 on October 13, 2015, 02:41:42 PM
Quote from: wingcar builder on October 13, 2015, 12:14:36 PM
Some Outstanding history has surfaced on this Chassis....Stay tuned.
It's Lee Petty's Daytona 500 winner?? :shruggy: :o :lol:
BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!! :2thumbs:
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :icon_smile_blackeye: :drool5: :drool5: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :shruggy: :shruggy: :shruggy: :shruggy: :shruggy: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :popcrn:
:popcrn:!!!!!!!!!!!!!
how about one good pic of this new history input???? :shruggy:
Why is this song running through my head?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhUeDUeaoAU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhUeDUeaoAU)
Quote from: Aero426 on October 18, 2015, 09:52:49 PM
Why is this song running through my head?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhUeDUeaoAU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhUeDUeaoAU)
So, Marty drove the car previously? THIS Hylton car was Marty's old Charger... :shruggy:
Feleena was once a Charger 500...........But she Whirled into a Beautiful Daytona. ;) And, this is just one source.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/H-10-2-70_zpsssqxxhs4.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/H-10-2-70_zpsssqxxhs4.jpg.html)
little easier to read the important part.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/marty%20ready%20for%20charlotte_zpspofz6rwb.png) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/marty%20ready%20for%20charlotte_zpspofz6rwb.png.html)
So, the Hylton charger 500 was converted to Marty Robins daytona by Bobby Allison. Interesting in that if you look at the Robbins daytona the cage bar on the upper front passenger corner (oddly set-back) matches the Hylton car. Another thing I find neat is when this car was shown on e-bay it was rolling on 1 rim that was painted Marty Robbins purple/pink. That would also explain why that chassis had holes in the trunk for the wing supports. Very cool find!!! Now, I wonder what the current owners will do with the restoration?
Exactly. but the rim was just a fluke. it was one that Bill Rossi had.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/marty%20bar._zpsbim2wnub.png) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/marty%20bar._zpsbim2wnub.png.html)
I agree the rim was more a funny coincidence than anything else.
Anyword word on how the owners of the car will restore the car back?
Charger 500 or Daytona??
What would be correct, or is there such a thing as correct if it were both at one time or another?
Interesting.
So all previous "history" is not correct?
Not the Prince car that was wrecked at Daytona?
Quote from: odcics2 on October 19, 2015, 03:12:33 PM
So all previous "history" is not correct?
Not the Prince car that was wrecked at Daytona?
Would appear that "most" history as reported is incorrect, except for having been owned by Hylton previously.
In the shop photos taken the same day, the 500 sits inside the shop, the Daytona (Prince car) and 67 Charger sit outside.
Quote from: odcics2 on October 19, 2015, 03:12:33 PM
So all previous "history" is not correct?
Not the Prince car that was wrecked at Daytona?
I can understand how the confusion occurred. there are in fact holes in the trunk for wing braces. but, until the picture that Mike Ashley took at Hylton's it was always assumed James only had the one chassis. Even talking with James years ago he never said he had two 69' Chargers. These guys really don't remember all that stuff. didn't have to. Kind of like Don White talking to me about the Charger behind his shop back in the day and never said it was the old #88 car. but, as Terry Nichels said Don is the kind of you don't ask he don't tell kinda guy. But, after serious archive searches and countless hours comparing photos. and talking with the right people things start coming together. But Mike's photos were the "Smoking Gun" so to speak. when James said he did some of his own work, he was right the photo clearly shows the vice with a bar in it. so they had added or replaced something. But after it was sold to Marty Bobby Allison did the front suspension work and Eddie Allison helped prep the car for Marty. Yes, Bobby has lost a lot of memory but he still remembers stuff to.as does Eddie. No disrespect to James Hylton but The car is going to be restored back to Marty Robbin's Livery.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/hylton%2069%20500%20clean_zpsq8obzcwm.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/hylton%2069%20500%20clean_zpsq8obzcwm.jpg.html)
Glad it gets to be a wing car after all but it could have been put back to the Hylton #48 Charger 500 and I would be equally happy. The Robbins car is a striking car so it will be a nice piece for sure.
Marty was a race car driver who could sing. and was an icon.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/marty%20robbins%20pit%20reliet%20driver_zps4cz0h2eg.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/marty%20robbins%20pit%20reliet%20driver_zps4cz0h2eg.jpg.html)
one of Marty's other car that was restored
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEkQFjAJahUKEwiPmda79M_IAhWMPT4KHcJNA3E&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmotorsports-soapbox.blogspot.com%2F2013%2F06%2Fevernham-restores-former-marty-robbins.html&usg=AFQjCNGyxVGJ0YilHXauuYKoVdwKOkFxLQ (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEkQFjAJahUKEwiPmda79M_IAhWMPT4KHcJNA3E&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmotorsports-soapbox.blogspot.com%2F2013%2F06%2Fevernham-restores-former-marty-robbins.html&usg=AFQjCNGyxVGJ0YilHXauuYKoVdwKOkFxLQ)
Quote from: wingcar builder on October 19, 2015, 08:16:04 PM
Marty was a race car driver who could sing. and was an icon.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/marty%20robbins%20pit%20reliet%20driver_zps4cz0h2eg.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/marty%20robbins%20pit%20reliet%20driver_zps4cz0h2eg.jpg.html)
ok, so the car that exists today - what is the known history, going back to its origins prior to marty. And going forward from him... :shruggy:
link the two threads together , for easier reference etc
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,63396.75.html
I saw on Facebook that Sigel Enterprises started the restoration on this car. Had the body off of it and the engine heading over to Ray Barton. :2thumbs:
Quote from: medgold68 on December 08, 2015, 07:41:20 PM
I saw on Facebook that Sigel Enterprises started the restoration on this car. Had the body off of it and the engine heading over to Ray Barton. :2thumbs:
Here is what I've put together so far on this car to much info and not enough spare time to keep up with 2 forums so here is the link. there is a lot of cool history unfolding on this chassis.
http://randyayersmodeling.com/modelingforum/viewtopic.php?t=86982
Quote from: wingcar builder on December 09, 2015, 08:50:42 AM
Quote from: medgold68 on December 08, 2015, 07:41:20 PM
I saw on Facebook that Sigel Enterprises started the restoration on this car. Had the body off of it and the engine heading over to Ray Barton. :2thumbs:
Here is what I've put together so far on this car to much info and not enough spare time to keep up with 2 forums so here is the link. there is a lot of cool history unfolding on this chassis.
http://randyayersmodeling.com/modelingforum/viewtopic.php?t=86982
thanks for posting the thread , ( keep forgetting about that awesome site :slap: ) lot of interesting pictures & stuff , :cheers: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Quote from: wingcar builder on December 09, 2015, 08:50:42 AM
Quote from: medgold68 on December 08, 2015, 07:41:20 PM
I saw on Facebook that Sigel Enterprises started the restoration on this car. Had the body off of it and the engine heading over to Ray Barton. :2thumbs:
Here is what I've put together so far on this car to much info and not enough spare time to keep up with 2 forums so here is the link. there is a lot of cool history unfolding on this chassis.
http://randyayersmodeling.com/modelingforum/viewtopic.php?t=86982
Wow. That is what I call top notch detective work. So the chain of owners is James Hylton as a C 500 then Bobby Allison puts the nose and wing on for Marty Robbins. Then Bobby removes the wing , nose and rear window and makes it a 68 Sportsman car. It then is repainted white and Neil Bonnet gets the car . They update it once as a 70. It is eventually reskinned as a 71.All cars had the common set back roll bar on the right side and black interiors. Did I miss something? :eek2:
Nope you followed correctly Steve. this one has some history for sure. still trying to bridge the last time Robbins had it to when or whom threw a 70 body back on it and how it ended up in a field. This one has been like solving the Jack the Ripper case.
Quote from: medgold68 on December 08, 2015, 07:41:20 PM
I saw on Facebook that Sigel Enterprises started the restoration on this car. Had the body off of it and the engine heading over to Ray Barton. :2thumbs:
Well any pix ,info ,links ?? To work removing an replace body on this racing piece of history?? thanks DJ :popcrn: :cheers: :2thumbs:
Quote from: djcarguy on December 25, 2015, 07:42:24 AM
Quote from: medgold68 on December 08, 2015, 07:41:20 PM
I saw on Facebook that Sigel Enterprises started the restoration on this car. Had the body off of it and the engine heading over to Ray Barton. :2thumbs:
Well any pix ,info ,links ?? To work removing an replace body on this racing piece of history?? thanks DJ :popcrn: :cheers: :2thumbs:
https://www.facebook.com/SigelEnterprises/photos/a.694753347216562.1073741827.694725093886054/1111428542215705/?type=3&hc_location=ufi
They've been goin right to town.
(http://http:[url=http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/photo%204%202_zps2sixqfhg.jpg.html%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/photo%204%202_zps2sixqfhg.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/photo%203_zpsgw8lnthi.jpg.html)
//i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/photo%203_zpsgw8lnthi.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/photo%202%204_zpsh9azdlgv.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/photo%202%204_zpsh9azdlgv.jpg.html)
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/photo%203_zpsgw8lnthi.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/photo%203_zpsgw8lnthi.jpg.html)
Back from the blaster.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/Picture1224151654_1_zpsgzlutruk.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/Picture1224151654_1_zpsgzlutruk.jpg.html)
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/robbins%20daytona%20blasted_zpswah7aeyo.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/robbins%20daytona%20blasted_zpswah7aeyo.jpg.html)
Non-Mopar upper control arm mounts are definitely an identifier. I wonder whose arms they used?
Any pics showing the yellow interior of this chassis?
Was the black over the yellow??
:o :coolgleamA: :2thumbs: good pictures , thanks for posting :cheers: :popcrn:
Quote from: odcics2 on December 26, 2015, 11:16:44 AM
Any pics showing the yellow interior of this chassis?
Was the black over the yellow??
Not much left other than the nooks and crannies. but passenger side bars still sport some color plus traces of white from it's later life. seems my theory has Merit to it.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/photo%201%201_zpslc31bd5e.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/photo%201%201_zpslc31bd5e.jpg.html)
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/photo%202%204_zpsh9azdlgv.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/photo%202%204_zpsh9azdlgv.jpg.html)
As I said my Theory has pretty much been confirmed by Ronny Robbins. When Talking to a former LMS team owner Butch Nelson. He told me that he bought a Charger from Bobby Allison which he thought was a former Mario Rossi car being it was Red and Gold. and said it had holes where a wing was formerly present. But, Bobby apparently got the Robbins Daytona back from Marty and used it as an LMS car and it had a 68' Charger front clip and the window plug removed. and if you look at the photo carefully it has a black interior. Rossi cars were red. Plus the unmistakable angle bar on the passenger side. and also still has stainless A-pillar covers.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/bobby%20allison%2068%20charger%20permatex_zpsionfi6b4.png) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/bobby%20allison%2068%20charger%20permatex_zpsionfi6b4.png.html)
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/Bobby%20allison%20lms%2068%20charger_zps9mq8z1lc.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/Bobby%20allison%20lms%2068%20charger_zps9mq8z1lc.jpg.html)
Also, Note the 3 braces on the rear view mirror.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/marty%20mirror%20brackets_zps30swxoqt.png) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/marty%20mirror%20brackets_zps30swxoqt.png.html)
Note the mirror, and Marty likes his pleated interiors.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/marty%20robbins%20press_zpstswnt7bj.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/marty%20robbins%20press_zpstswnt7bj.jpg.html)
Quote from: Aero426 on December 26, 2015, 12:00:17 AM
Non-Mopar upper control arm mounts are definitely an identifier. I wonder whose arms they used?
All Bobby Allison fab work with modified Nichels control arms. Bobby identified immediately. Also, when Cotton Owens saw the car originally he said that was Bobby Allison modification.
Doug, on the videos I sent you Bobby talks about the modified control arms.
Now, back to my theory I had which has been proven. Bobby sold this car to Butch Nelson in 1972. Butch said car still had 68' front end on it. and he painted it white/Black and Newcomer Neil Bonnett was put in it for running LMS.
Note the Black interior and even the dual pipes on driver's side
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/neil%20bonnett%2068%20dodge%20charger_zpsjbctbwtw.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/neil%20bonnett%2068%20dodge%20charger_zpsjbctbwtw.jpg.html)
Butch said shortly after this photo was taken Bonnett wrecked the car and they updated it with a 70' front clip.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/bonnett%201_zps1gzoyqzz.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/bonnett%201_zps1gzoyqzz.jpg.html)
here is the car with the 70' sheet metal. Note the 3 braces on the rearview mirror and the angle bar location on passenger side.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/bonnett_zpsufhhr9dy.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/bonnett_zpsufhhr9dy.jpg.html)
More to come......... ;)
Geez, look at how visibly drooped that front end is. No way a stock hood would swap onto that.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/neil%20bonnett%2068%20dodge%20charger_zpsjbctbwtw.jpg)
i know right, even look at the nascar daytonas vs a street one. more drop to it
After being torn up again, Butch re-bodied the Charger to 71' sheet metal.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/bonnett%2072%20charger_zpsooximuxg.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/bonnett%2072%20charger_zpsooximuxg.jpg.html)
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/neil%20bonnet%20charger_zps9espmccd.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/neil%20bonnet%20charger_zps9espmccd.jpg.html)
After what people call the "Nitro" incident. Neil blew the motir and tore the car up bad. This was the last deal for Butch and Dodges and he went back to running Chevys. Butch said he took the car back home and put it behind the garage and he said Marty Robbins called him one day and asked if he still had the car and he came down with a bag of cash and bought the car . Butch said he never even counted the money he said he told Marty just give him what he thought it was worth and took the car. Now, Ronny Robbins said he remembers seeing the car in the shop back home and remembers it was Neil's car and how bad it was torn up.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/bonnett%20crash_zpslp4kjzth.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/bonnett%20crash_zpslp4kjzth.jpg.html)
So, what Marty did with the car after that is being debated. where it went from there to being ran on a dirt track with 70' charger sheet metal back on it and ending up in a field is where we are at now. but as they start taking the old body off. white paint is visible in the rear and on the right side bar when cleaned off.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/photo%202%204_zpsh9azdlgv.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/photo%202%204_zpsh9azdlgv.jpg.html)
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j25/wingcar_builder/photo%204%202_zps2sixqfhg.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/wingcar_builder/media/photo%204%202_zps2sixqfhg.jpg.html)
Timely bump....
The Marty Robbins Daytona is done. :2thumbs:
Quote from: odcics2 on September 15, 2019, 08:31:54 AM
Timely bump....
The Marty Robbins Daytona is done. :2thumbs:
Praise the Lord!
;)Like I told Pete, His journey thru this was like the movie the Money Pit! all the problems and when he sent that first pic of it in Paint I said You Got Stairs Walter! :2thumbs: and the car Look fantastic too.!
All finished, Alleluia...Where's the Tylenol!
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: