Since yesterday was pretty much a "snow day" for us here in the Midwest I decided to be productive and open up the 440 in the Superbird to fix my exhaust leak and change the cam since I was not happy with the performance and idle/vacuum quality of the MP Purple shaft in there now. Well, the engine is now down to the short block and I found some alarming things in there. :o
First of all, I found my exhaust leak – see second picture, can you see a leak path?
Second I pulled off the timing chain and the crank key came off in 2 pieces, I don't remember it looking like that when I put it in there in 2004! And the last picture is the key and the what's left of the keyway in the lower timing chain sprocket! It's hard to believe that this thing was running like this! So here is my dilemma, how should I fix this? I'm not comfortable with the crank keyway, the crank is already been turned 0.020 under so I would not likely want to invest much to have the crank repaired, and if I'm going that route, should I do the whole rotating assembly?
Second question on the exhaust, there are really only three options I can think of, another set of used manifolds, a set of new manifolds, or headers. I'm thinking the best route here is a new set of reproduction manifolds, has anyone ever used a set of these? And where is the best place to buy them?
So I'm now open to suggestions on both the exhaust and the crankshaft/keyway
What would you do?
Wow, that turned into quite a day for you! I guess if it were my car first I'd look for date coded manifolds. I wouldn't be afraid to buy a used set. Depending on how you use the car, you could go cheap and just buy a new timing set and keyway and put it back together. It would probably be o.k. That said, if you really don't trust the crank ,you already know what you have to do. Bite the bullet and get a new crank, which would also include bearings etc... If it were my car I'd seriuosly consider putting a 4.15 stroker crank in it. You're already looking at buying a crank and misc. stuff anyways, so why not add pistons and rings to it?bigger motors can run very nicely with a cam that would seem to large in a standard displacment engine and you already pulled the cam also so what the heck? Just my :Twocents:
The exhaust is easy - the manifold that broke is the most commonly available one by a ratio of about 10 to 1. It is usually the passenger side that breaks so the driver's side is quite common. Good used ones with the correct date code are available. Let me know if you can't find one.
On the crank key, my concern would be the condition of the six pack damper. That is the hard/expensive part to find if you need it. If you need a balancer and you decide to redo the entire reciprocating assembly, you may want to have it internally balanced and use a standard 440 balancer. The clutch/torque converter assembly has to be balanced with all of this. It looks like you already have replacement pistons so the originality of the engine internals probably is not an issue.
I agree, how's the dampner slot? The dampner doesn't need to come for a six pack motor. It's really the '70 4bbl/6bbl dampner (heavy rod dampner). Looks like the slot for the key's been compromised? If it hasn't, I can't imagine the lower rotating assembly has been compromised. Why did you take the heads off? If the crank is trash, then by all means get a new/old one and have it,, along with the rods, balanced. As stated, you'll need all the components that rotate to be together for balancing. I would stick with trying to find an original manifold. They are out there.
Good luck,,,,,,,, man, what a day for you............
bummer buddy , :rotz:
Yikes! That had to be a scarry day in the garage!
:o nothing is ever straight forward is it !! sorry to see this :brickwall: good job you looked inside when you did :yesnod: :popcrn: , tough one on the crank :shruggy: :scratchchin:
Pull the motor and do it right. Your almost there and it will really suck to have to revisit this again later.
I would be comfortable with repro or used exhaust manifolds.
I have had nothing but issues with headers draging speed bumps and causing exhaust leaks.
that crank looks real iffy. i would send that motor out and have it done rite . then you can have confidence driving it :cheers:
Never saw an exhaust manifold crack like that. By chance did you ever hose the engine down when it was hot?
Come on..... do it....
(http://www.raybarton.com/catalog/engines/472-572xramh.jpg)
Ryan
I'll vote for that.
Obviously, the crank nut wasn't tight enough, or something was keeping it from clamping the sprocket to the crank.
Some guys advocate honing the inside of your balancer to ease installation-I'm not one of them. I just make sure it's clean and unpainted, and tow it home with a proper driver. I'm also obsessive-compulsive about torquing with a known good wrench.
If it was in the farm dump truck, I'd just put it back together correctly. In my Charger, I'd pull the whole thing out-cranks are cheap enough. Looks like either your rings or valve seals could use some attention, too.
Well, the engine came out last night with the help of my friend Shad, now I'm still weighing options, but I did find out what my issue was.
As some of you had guessed the lower timing gear was working back and forth on the crank and beating the key/crank/sprocket/oil slinger/and ultimately the damper into oblivion.
Well the crank bolt was tight, and installed correctly. the issue was the crank bolt washer.
take a look at the third picture. The damper is fully pressed onto the crank trapping the oil slinger and lower timing sprocket.
The outer lip of the damper where that the washer contacts, is only 0.015" to 0.020" higher than the center of the crank where the bolt threads into. Soooo..... when the bolt was tightened it was pushing against the damper like it should have, but it deflected at least the difference between the crank and damper. When I held the washer against a straightedge, it was still "conical' and deformed. I turned it over and put it on backwards, torqued the bolt again and the damper seated against the sprocket.
Note to self:
When bolting any damper in place don't just rely on the torque of a fastener.
This $2.00 washer killed my crank and is getting very expensive!
:brickwall:
I "assume" you know there are about four different bolt lengths.Two of them are real close and one bottoms out before it tightens enough to keep the washer from seating.I would check the depth of the hole in the shaft and measure the bolt before you put it back together. :Twocents:
Quote from: 62 Max on February 17, 2011, 10:38:39 PM
I "assume" you know there are about four different bolt lengths.Two of them are real close and one bottoms out before it tightens enough to keep the washer from seating.I would check the depth of the hole in the shaft and measure the bolt before you put it back together. :Twocents:
Thought about that as well, but without the washer the bolt will thread all the way into the crank snout. Near as I can figure the washer had enough "flex" that it was pressing on both the crank and damper, it even has two "rings" on the back where it was contacting both.
:'(
On a seperate, but related note, I had a strange leak on my Daytona when I bought it. Oil pooling in the crank pulley and then slinging around the engine compartment via the fan & alternator belts. The only thing that I could figure weas that oil was travelling down the keyway & out onto the pulley. After tearing the front of the engine apart, I found that the crank washer was deformed a little (dish shaped). A new washer & a little silicone in the end of the keyway seems to have solved that issue.
Is it just the way the photo is taken, or do you have a standard 440 (non-external "six pak" balanced) damper on there? If someone rebalanced your engine to use a standard damper the replacement cost will be much lower.
Quote from: Arnie Cunningham on February 18, 2011, 01:14:11 PM
Is it just the way the photo is taken, or do you have a standard 440 (non-external "six pak" balanced) damper on there? If someone rebalanced your engine to use a standard damper the replacement cost will be much lower.
Brennan,
This is a 440 forged crank damper (I believe same as 6 pack) for internally balanced engines, I would agree that there are various repairs that could be done to save a few bucks, but I believe I now have a course of action planned out.
As I completed a little more digging into the engine, here is the list of things to be replaced/fixed to make this engine "right". After this eye opening experience I really want to fix this engine and not worry about cutting any corners that could come back to bite me down the road. Here are the areas needing attention after a thorough exam:
Crankshaft, Damper, Timing gear, oil slinger half the rocker arms, cam and lifters, Cylinder bores/pistons (already bored 0.030 over), exhaust manifolds, clutch and throwout bearing.
Since the rotating assembly is now toast (except for the rods) and an overbore is needed, I've pretty much decided to go with a stroker kit and replace the entire assembly including an aftermarket damper. this will give me an almost new longblock (only reusing the block and head castings) with a displacement of around 498 cubic inches, heads ported to flow and a cam/valvetrain matched to this combo and a new clutch assembly that will be balanced as part of the total rotating assembly. I have already purchased new exhaust manifolds from Year One and am quite impressed with them (at least by looking at them) as well.
I had not planned on this extensive of a rebuild, but I only want to do this once. Since I do drive this car and have logged 10,000 miles on this current setup over the last 5 years with the unplanned variable valve timing. I should be improving the performance of this car significantly, and still be able to drive it anywhere, anytime until I'm too old and feeble to push the clutch pedal in anymore!
This should be an interesting build. I'm fortunate to have not one, but two nationally known Mopar only engine builders/machine shops within a half hour of my house. One is even willing to spec a cam for big displacement/Horsepower & torque but using the stock exhaust manifolds!
That sounds like an excellent plan. Then you will have a Superbird with the horsepower to match the image of the car.
Just to check: I wasn't aware that the reproduction manifolds fit 1970 H pipes. I thought the flange was 90 degrees different from the 68/69 manifold - on the passenger side. I think the heat riser valve style was different too. Did they start making a 70 manifold?
Quote from: Arnie Cunningham on February 19, 2011, 02:24:48 AM
That sounds like an excellent plan. Then you will have a Superbird with the horsepower to match the image of the car.
Just to check: I wasn't aware that the reproduction manifolds fit 1970 H pipes. I thought the flange was 90 degrees different from the 68/69 manifold - on the passenger side. I think the heat riser valve style was different too. Did they start making a 70 manifold?
You are correct, the Year One manifolds are the 68-69 Hp castings. The drivers side is a direct match functionally, except there is no provision mounting the heat stove on it. The passenger side exhaust flange is clocked about 90 degrees from the 70 manifolds, but is parallel to the ground. I will simply cut the flange off of my H pipe and reposition it once I get to that point, then re-weld the flange. I wont be using the hear riser valve anyway so that wont be an issue.
The manifolds arrived here last week and I have to say, they look pretty nice, and are both in one piece!
i hope you don't have to bore the engine to much . 60 over might give you a problem with running hot . that nose cone restricts air flow a bit .
Quote from: 70Sbird on February 19, 2011, 10:59:43 AM
Quote from: Arnie Cunningham on February 19, 2011, 02:24:48 AM
That sounds like an excellent plan. Then you will have a Superbird with the horsepower to match the image of the car.
Just to check: I wasn't aware that the reproduction manifolds fit 1970 H pipes. I thought the flange was 90 degrees different from the 68/69 manifold - on the passenger side. I think the heat riser valve style was different too. Did they start making a 70 manifold?
You are correct, the Year One manifolds are the 68-69 Hp castings. The drivers side is a direct match functionally, except there is no provision mounting the heat stove on it. The passenger side exhaust flange is clocked about 90 degrees from the 70 manifolds, but is parallel to the ground. I will simply cut the flange off of my H pipe and reposition it once I get to that point, then re-weld the flange. I wont be using the hear riser valve anyway so that wont be an issue.
The manifolds arrived here last week and I have to say, they look pretty nice, and are both in one piece!
I am running the 69 repo year one manifolds and like them so far
Hey everyone, Thought I'd post some update pics of the Superbird's progress. As some of you know I am going back together with a few more inches and some other upgrades. Still hoping to thrash this together in time for the Cleveland meet. Here are a few pics of indicating the belhousing to the new block, the ported heads and the layout of the "stall build"
:drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5:
next 4 - here is the new 4.15 stroker crank, de-burred and mic'd for bearing clearance, I also tried something new, priming under engine paint, we'll see how it holds up, and here it is.... last week the first four bolts went back together, the new water pump is in the housing!
What's with that extra bolt boss on the front of the block; is that an A-body block?
Still working on the prep work for assembly, I had the crank drilled for my 4 speed but am using the modern (truck) pilot bearing, here it is Finally! I took vacation last Friday for a 3-day assembly weekend!, got the crank in , It is now officially a Stroker motor! eight of these assemblies.....
Quote from: Richard Cranium on June 08, 2011, 01:40:51 PM
What's with that extra bolt boss on the front of the block; is that an A-body block?
It's a 1976 vintage block, my 440 was a little thin after sonic testing for a second overbore and a stroker kit
:2thumbs:
Now to degree the cam, do a little more clearancing on the block for the rods/crank I have a complete shortblock!
Bolt on and paint the heads then start setting up the rockers. Very time consuming process on the rockers compared to the stock ones but they should be good for a few extra ponies when complete!
:icon_smile_big:
This brings me up to tonight, I have to finish spacing the rockers on the passenger side and get the pushrod length set, I'll take a few more pictures of that process and post them in the next few days.
What did you use for engine paint? Was it the MP stuff in an aerosol? I understand it is pretty thin and you need the primer underneath for coverage.
Quote from: 70Sbird on June 08, 2011, 01:44:14 PM
Quote from: Richard Cranium on June 08, 2011, 01:40:51 PM
What's with that extra bolt boss on the front of the block; is that an A-body block?
It's a 1976 vintage block, my 440 was a little thin after sonic testing for a second overbore and a stroker kit
:2thumbs:
i been wondering that for some time !!! keep seeing that extra cast boss with a hole tapped on the left side !! on a few blocks , thought it was A body barracuda & dart blocks at first , :yesnod: :shruggy: did'nt they have something similar :popcrn:
Quote from: 70Sbird on June 08, 2011, 01:53:20 PM
Now to degree the cam, do a little more clearancing on the block for the rods/crank I have a complete shortblock!
Bolt on and paint the heads then start setting up the rockers. Very time consuming process on the rockers compared to the stock ones but they should be good for a few extra ponies when complete!
:icon_smile_big:
This brings me up to tonight, I have to finish spacing the rockers on the passenger side and get the pushrod length set, I'll take a few more pictures of that process and post them in the next few days.
awesome stuff!! keep the pictures coming :drool5: :coolgleamA: :popcrn:
Quote from: Aero426 on June 09, 2011, 04:26:05 PM
What did you use for engine paint? Was it the MP stuff in an aerosol? I understand it is pretty thin and you need the primer underneath for coverage.
Doug,
I'm just using Dupli-color engine primer and " Chrysler Hemi Orange" enamel (primer can visible in this pic) The color is probably not an exact match, but unless there is a "correct" painted engine sitting right next to mine 99.6 percent of the population will never know!
And, using the gray primer, only about 2 color coats really look good! the other thing is that it's only about $4.75 a can at Farm&Fleet, and is very easy to touch up down the road if necessary
Can you tell us a little about the valvetrain you chose?
Quote from: Aero426 on June 09, 2011, 09:16:24 PM
Can you tell us a little about the valvetrain you chose?
Doug,
Sure, since most of the engine came from one source, Hughes engines.
The cam is a flat tappet hydraulic, (Hughes 3742)
Flat Tappet Hydraulic / One Bolt Timing Gear. Serious street and strip: oval track, mud racers. 3.91:1 gears, noticeable idle, 3000rpm stall. High rise dual plane, 3x2 or small single plane intake, headers required. Stage I or II HP ported heads. 170psi suggested cylinder pressure.
Camshaft Technical Details
Intake Valve Lift Exhaust Valve Lift w/1.5 .548/.555"
Intake and Exhaust Duration at .050" 237°/242°
Lobe Separation Angle 108º
Min. Suggested Cylinder PSI 175
Sweet Spot RPM 2300 - 5600
This cam sounds WAY bigger than I would have chosen but Hughes said that with a 500 cubic inch stroker engine, it will be able to use all that cam and still be very streetable. I guess I'll trust him since he has set up more engines than I ever will. We'll have to see how it acts when I get it running.
My original (906 casting) heads were also ported and had oversize stainless steel valves installed. I'm definately addding a better intake and carb to my Christmas list!
I then used Hughes 1106 valve springs (150# @ 1.880' INSTALLED 335# @ .550' LIFT) and the aluminum 1.5 ratio roller rocker arms. They are supposedly good for about 25 horsepower over the stamped original or MP "6-pack " rockers and the stamped ones are not recommended by MP for any cam over .500 lift. I'm also using custom length pushrods, I spent last night getting the "optimal length" set up and dropped the master off today to be replicated in 16 identical pushrods. Ill pick them up Friday afternoon. Hopefully I'll have the engine buttoned up this weekend
Hey all,
Just a few more pics from the weekend. I spent a bunch of time on this but didn't get as far along as I'd hoped. Setting up the rockers has been very time consuming! I can now appreciate why engine builders get the money that they do. Like anything else, If I were to do it over again it it would take less time, but this is still a very tedious process! Hopefully it'll be worth it.
Here are a few pics of the rocker's progress. The rollers need to be positioned directly over the valve stem, and this is accomplished by using .015 and .030 inch shims to move the rockers back and forth on the shaft. And when complete have only .005" to .015" side clearance per set. not really that difficult, but you end up taking the rockers on and off a lot to get it right!.
Then came measuring for the pushrods, this is again a tedious process adjusting the pushrods length and rockers to achieve the optimal lift and desired valvetrain geometry, basically getting the pushrod 100% in line with no angles when the valve is fully open, and maximizing lift.
finally the rockers were set up and I rolled the engine over (hopefully for the last time) to button up the bottom end.
I added a few more drain hole and opened up the "louvers" on the windage tray and checked for clearance. I only needed to do one adjustment with a ball peen hammer for clearance for the #3 connecting rod cap. A very minor one, as seen by the sharpie'd square by the pickup tube. I put the pan on, bolted in the new engine mounts (Schumacher Poly-Locs) and rolled it back up to add the pushrods and adjust the valves.
Last night before I went to bed, I installed the intake and the studs for the exhaust manifolds and valve covers.
It's starting to look like an engine again!
I have to go out of town for work tomorrow, but i'm hoping to get it mostly finished tonight
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
:coolgleamA: all looking good !! good stuff going on ! :drool5: :2thumbs:
never realised there was that much to running them Hughes rockers , i know every thing should be checked for opitmum alignment :scratchchin: ,
keep the pictures coming , love looking at this kind of stuff :popcrn: :cheers:
Scott,
That looks awesome. I can't wait to hear that beast running again!
OK, I was hoping to buton up the engine tonight but hit a snag. My new Mopar Performance cast Aluminum valve covers and my passenger side exhaust manifold both want to occupy the same space when installed. There is plenty of room on the drivers side, but the passenger side is not going at all. has anyone else run across this before?
:RantExplode:
yup...the cast aluminum covers won't fit the HP manifold on the passenger side....you can try to massage the valve cover to fit...but I have heard it don't work very well and will leak
try a gasket on the manifold? a thick header gasket might help a bit.
How about just putting some stock ones on instead?
http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/index.php?p=product&id=121129&parent=0
I was considering using a set of these when I had a leak I just could not stop. I never did try a set. They claim them to be .051 thick. There is no photo so don't trust my cut and paste. Call them and make certain you get exactly what you need. You may be able to double them up and gain some room. How much room do you need? With the manifold that close, you may also want to add one of the motorhome gaskets that extend up between the cover and the manifold - ugly but effective. Or, as mentioned, go with stock covers.
Hi everyone, I feel like a celebrity now since a few of these pictures made the club newsletter!
Just a quick update as I'm preparing to leave for Florida for work and will be missing the Cleveland meet :'(
Here is the (almost) finished engine, the carb is just sitting in place as I'll take it off for the install. I also have a new power steering pump that still needs to be mounted, the PCV and breather, plus a few other small detail items. I washed out the engine bay on Saturday, and cleaned up the tranny then shot a fresh coat of Cast Iron engine paint on it so it looks fresh as well
Here is a quick pic of the exhaust flange I removed to "reclock" it for use with the 68/69 manifolds
The last three were taken last night as I dropped the K frame and suspension. My trust buddy Shad and I are unbolting the remaining parts to drop everything out the bottom.
That's awesome to see. You going to freshen up the front suspension too?!?! When do you think you and the Shad will be putting the olde girl back together?
Ryan,
No the suspension is good, I put lower control arm bushings in last year, and everything else 10,000 miles ago. Just a cleanup and maybe some paint on the K frame. The engine compartment looks pretty good after a bath, I may hit it with a little cleaner wax if I have time. Hard to say when it will move again, It was supposed to be done last weekend. This trip for work that just popped up late last week will kill about 4 evenings of working time as well. Hopefully it should be back together by the 4th of July now.
Lots of good work going on there! It's goona be great when you start driving it. Strokers ROCK!!! Best of luck
Chris
Just a quick update for this week. I had to travel to Orlando last week and had some family things over the weekend so I only got in a few hours of work.
Here is the finished engine (minus the final carb install). I also waxed and detailed the engine compartment while I still had the chance. It sure was easy to move around in there with out the K frame and suspension in the way.
I also finished my "dolly" that will support the suspension/engine/trans. The two 4x6 blocks support the K frame and the two "pins" (1/2" lag screws with the heads ground off) locate in the holes on the bottom of the K. This is a pretty cheap solution, but should work out fine. I have a scissors jack to support and level the tail shaft of the trans for assembly.
The K frame got a soaking with Gunk and a trip to the car wash, then some final cleaning and a coat of paint, I touched up the steering box as well and bolted it together,
Some progress, so I should be able to get all of this together and under the car by the weekend.
Perty lookin' engine and k frame :2thumbs:
So when are you gonna work on that rusty Master Cylinder ;D ... just kiddding, looks great :yesnod:
Quote from: WINGIN IT on June 29, 2011, 10:42:14 AM
Perty lookin' engine and k frame :2thumbs:
So when are you gonna work on that rusty Master Cylinder ;D ... just kiddding, looks great :yesnod:
LOL,
that has been bugging me too.....
My "short list" before assembly is paint the M/C, clean and adjust the shifter rods and replace the P/S return hose!
its getting close!
Can't wait to see it running!
Well it was another couple days of cussing and fussing this past weekend and the car is STILL not back together. I had arranged for some help to get the drive train back into the car Saturday morning and that would have left me some time over the long weekend to get things hooked back up and make some good progress.
Thursday night I decided to clean up and lube the shifter, no worries there, and set the motor into the K frame. I was very happy to see the engine come off of the stand and bolted back onto the K frame. When I set it down though, the motor mounts did not sit all the way down on the mounting pads on the K, but I was tired and called it a night.
Friday Morning I got back at it and then spent FIVE hours "adjusting" the motor mounts including some grinding (the fussing part) but it finally sat right and everything bolted up nicely. I attached the flywheel and called it a day since I was taking my daughter to a concert in Chicago that night and didn't want us to be late.
Saturday morning after getting home at 2:00 AM (three hour drive home) I got up early to install the clutch and transmission before my help arrived. I test fit all the parts and bolted the clutch up to the flywheel and snugged up all the bolts. I was torquing them down when the fifth bolt pulled the threads out of the hole! (That was the cussing part). So I called off the body drop and the flywheel is now out getting the threads repaired.
I swear it's like this engine does not want to go back together and get back into the car!
So anyway, the reunion of Drivetrain and Superbird is now supposedly going to happen this next weekend unless some other unforeseen issue arises :brickwall:
Quote from: WINGIN IT on June 29, 2011, 10:42:14 AM
Perty lookin' engine and k frame :2thumbs:
So when are you gonna work on that rusty Master Cylinder ;D ... just kiddding, looks great :yesnod:
By the way I forgot to mention, (Wingin It) Thursday I also painted the master cylinder and booster!
:coolgleamA:
Motor looks nice! Clean! I like clean! Hurry up so we can hear it run! :2thumbs:
Very nice........... :2thumbs:
Quote from: 70Sbird on July 06, 2011, 08:45:34 PM
Quote from: WINGIN IT on June 29, 2011, 10:42:14 AM
Perty lookin' engine and k frame :2thumbs:
So when are you gonna work on that rusty Master Cylinder ;D ... just kiddding, looks great :yesnod:
By the way I forgot to mention, (Wingin It) Thursday I also painted the master cylinder and booster!
:coolgleamA:
:2thumbs: ;D
It looks real good where it is at. Mine sat like that for over a year... DON'T BE LIKE ME
Finally some good news to report! I picked up the repaired flywheel yesterday on my way home from work and put the flywheel, clutch, starter and trans assembly on last night. :icon_smile_big:
So tonight I enlisted my helper(s) again and got the nose up in the air and the engine dolly rolled under!
I was just happy to see the car and engine in the same garage stall again!
Here are pics of the engine, the car positioned for lift-off (Or lift -on in this case)
so far the car went up and the engine rolled under with minimal effort
So here my friend Shad and I are doing our best to imitate the Lunch Road assembly line!
It took us less than an hour to get the body dropped onto the engine/suspension with the K frame and trans crossmember bolted in and the torsion bars back in their sockets!
It sure is nice to see the engine back where it's supposed to be!
:icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big:
:drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :popcrn:
Gorgeous :2thumbs: :drool5:
Now to do something with that eye sore of a wiper motor :icon_smile_big: ( nice master cylinder by the way ) :icon_smile_big: ;)
Seriously, what could possbily be left to do?? ( other than drive the snot out of it) .
Quote from: WINGIN IT on July 09, 2011, 11:11:59 AM
Gorgeous :2thumbs: :drool5:
Now to do something with that eye sore of a wiper motor :icon_smile_big: ( nice master cylinder by the way ) :icon_smile_big: ;)
Seriously, what could possbily be left to do?? ( other than drive the snot out of it) .
fix the exhaust leak :icon_smile_big:
Looks great, but with the angle the car is at, you're darned lucky that the hood didn't slide off the roof. :o
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=77695.0;attach=154233;image)
...or go chasing the space shuttle :lol:
Quote from: Richard Cranium on July 10, 2011, 05:13:20 AM
Looks great, but with the angle the car is at, you're darned lucky that the hood didn't slide off the roof. :o
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=77695.0;attach=154233;image)
Wow... Scott.. I agree with RC.......... Whew !!!! :o
Pretty nice nonetheless................... :2thumbs:
Quote from: hemi68charger on July 11, 2011, 05:34:06 AM
Quote from: Richard Cranium on July 10, 2011, 05:13:20 AM
Looks great, but with the angle the car is at, you're darned lucky that the hood didn't slide off the roof. :o
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=77695.0;attach=154233;image)
Wow... Scott.. I agree with RC.......... Whew !!!! :o
Pretty nice nonetheless................... :2thumbs:
:o :faint: :yesnod:
looks awesome !! nice work :drool5: :popcrn:
Quote from: Richard Cranium on July 10, 2011, 05:13:20 AM
Looks great, but with the angle the car is at, you're darned lucky that the hood didn't slide off the roof. :o
The angle wasn't as bad as it looks. We did have one person keping an eye on the hood, but with the styrofoam blocks it's sitting on and the curve of the roof it was actually quite stable!
I did have a 1/4' drive ratchet and socket fall off the top of the wing though and hit the floor
:coolgleamA:
Hopefully this will be my last "Build" posting!
:icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big:
just tied up a few loose ends, I got everything done "under" the car earlier this week, only to discover a few ugly cracks in my clutch fork where the clutch rod bushing goes :RantExplode: I am finally running out of things to go wrong though I think!
I ordered a new fork and it should be here by early next week at the latest. It won't stop me from starting the car and breaking in the cam though.
Here is the final set of pics, adding the oils, and here is one of the "H" pipe with the re-clocked and welded passenger side flange, and the two O2 bungs for the wide band oxygen sensors that go with my new digital A/F meter.
These next pictures made me smile, it was good to see the car back on all four tires after this project.
The last pic is where it sits now. I'm just short 1 heater hose clamp, then fill the cooling system, prime the oil system, put some gas in the carb and fire it up!
I am planning to start it up Saturday Morning - Finally!
I wish I had your knowledge and experience! I might have my car running after 3 years.
Quote from: Devil on July 14, 2011, 09:43:31 PM
I wish I had your knowledge and experience! I might have my car running after 3 years.
Just keep plugging away at it, it'll be driveable before you know it!
any plan yet ? :shruggy: whats the story
Stuart, why does it seem that you are always a step ahead of me? I was planning to do an update with pics here since I have now moved forward
Anyway, for those of you that don't know, I got the engine back into the car, and started it up, only to have it run for a bout 25 minutes before a catastrophic valve train failure occurred! I had my buddy on hand and pre-lubed the engine for about 15 minutes with a drill and then fired it off. It started with the first turn of the key and I kept it above 2,000 rpm for about 25 minutes before it started making funny noises and I shut it down. When I tried starting it back up, it didn't turn over very well and when it did run, was popping back through the carb. Well, take a look at the pictures, four out of the five cam bearings were "wiped" including the number 4 bearing that feeds the valvetrain. It starved for oil too and was destroyed, taking the valvetrain with it. We now have a chicken and egg question: did the cam bearings fail and shut oil off to the valvetrain, or did the valvetrain run dry and "push" harder on the cam and waste the bearings? Either way the engine came back out and was disassembled again. As of Friday I picked up the block had it re-honed, cleaned with new cam bearings, the heads gone through again (bent valve from kissing a piston when the rocker seized)
And all new bearings, gaskets oil pump and such....
Yesterday I dropped off all of the parts to a local Engine builder to go through everything AGAIN before the engine gets re-assembled. The good news is (I find the good somewhere) is that when assembled the engine will be broken in again on a dyno and I will get some performance numbers from it.
Sorry for the lack of an update, this failure occurred just a week before the Indy meet and I just haven't been able to go out and bring myself to get back into the project. Hopefully the next few weeks will be better
Pics 1&2 are of the rockers and pushrods "cooked". #3 is what I found when I pulled the intake, and the last one is the remnants of a cam bearing "extruded" out from its home
WOW! sorry to hear this! so sorry! i always dyno a fresh motor! better to fix issues before its back in car. now get back to work on the thing!
Man oh man................. Sorry to see this Scott....
I hate to ask, but why not use the simple hydraulic reproduction camshaft with OEM pushrods and rockers?
I'm sorry for you Scott. Here's hoping the build this time gives you many miles of trouble free, tire shredding performance.
Ah crappers buddy. I'm so sorry to hear that. I agree with above, I hope this redone engine gives you many years of trouble free work.
Ryan
Quote from: 70Sbird on September 07, 2011, 05:39:50 PM
Stuart, why does it seem that you are always a step ahead of me? I was planning to do an update with pics here since I have now moved forward
Anyway, for those of you that don't know, I got the engine back into the car, and started it up, only to have it run for a bout 25 minutes before a catastrophic valve train failure occurred! I had my buddy on hand and pre-lubed the engine for about 15 minutes with a drill and then fired it off. It started with the first turn of the key and I kept it above 2,000 rpm for about 25 minutes before it started making funny noises and I shut it down. When I tried starting it back up, it didn't turn over very well and when it did run, was popping back through the carb. Well, take a look at the pictures, four out of the five cam bearings were "wiped" including the number 4 bearing that feeds the valvetrain. It starved for oil too and was destroyed, taking the valvetrain with it. We now have a chicken and egg question: did the cam bearings fail and shut oil off to the valvetrain, or did the valvetrain run dry and "push" harder on the cam and waste the bearings? Either way the engine came back out and was disassembled again. As of Friday I picked up the block had it re-honed, cleaned with new cam bearings, the heads gone through again (bent valve from kissing a piston when the rocker seized)
And all new bearings, gaskets oil pump and such....
Yesterday I dropped off all of the parts to a local Engine builder to go through everything AGAIN before the engine gets re-assembled. The good news is (I find the good somewhere) is that when assembled the engine will be broken in again on a dyno and I will get some performance numbers from it.
Sorry for the lack of an update, this failure occurred just a week before the Indy meet and I just haven't been able to go out and bring myself to get back into the project. Hopefully the next few weeks will be better
Pics 1&2 are of the rockers and pushrods "cooked". #3 is what I found when I pulled the intake, and the last one is the remnants of a cam bearing "extruded" out from its home
wow good job you break them better then even i can :icon_smile_big: hope you have better luck this next go round .
sorry to hear about your misfortune. :pity:
Could you please help me out with what you secured the starps to on the car when you used the hoist to lift it. Im trying to figure out how Im going to put my car back together without a lift.
TIA!
Quote from: moparstuart on September 08, 2011, 11:27:01 AM
wow good job you break them better then even i can :icon_smile_big: hope you have better luck this next go round .
Ah, don't be so humble...you managed to window a block AND hydrolock a couple cylinders!
That SUCKS. I was worried about getting my 340 up and running. 50 miles of farting around so far since Friday...then the rains came Monday...and just stopped. :nixon:
Quote from: pettybird on September 08, 2011, 01:01:54 PM
Quote from: moparstuart on September 08, 2011, 11:27:01 AM
wow good job you break them better then even i can :icon_smile_big: hope you have better luck this next go round .
Ah, don't be so humble...you managed to window a block AND hydrolock a couple cylinders!
:icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: and on two totally different blocks two years apart .
has anyone done anything similarly to the way the Bird in this thread is lifted? :shruggy: :brickwall:
Quote from: 70Sbird on September 07, 2011, 05:39:50 PM
Stuart, why does it seem that you are always a step ahead of me? I was planning to do an update with pics here since I have now moved forward
Anyway, for those of you that don't know, I got the engine back into the car, and started it up, only to have it run for a bout 25 minutes before a catastrophic valve train failure occurred! I had my buddy on hand and pre-lubed the engine for about 15 minutes with a drill and then fired it off. It started with the first turn of the key and I kept it above 2,000 rpm for about 25 minutes before it started making funny noises and I shut it down. When I tried starting it back up, it didn't turn over very well and when it did run, was popping back through the carb. Well, take a look at the pictures, four out of the five cam bearings were "wiped" including the number 4 bearing that feeds the valvetrain. It starved for oil too and was destroyed, taking the valvetrain with it. We now have a chicken and egg question: did the cam bearings fail and shut oil off to the valvetrain, or did the valvetrain run dry and "push" harder on the cam and waste the bearings? Either way the engine came back out and was disassembled again. As of Friday I picked up the block had it re-honed, cleaned with new cam bearings, the heads gone through again (bent valve from kissing a piston when the rocker seized)
And all new bearings, gaskets oil pump and such....
Yesterday I dropped off all of the parts to a local Engine builder to go through everything AGAIN before the engine gets re-assembled. The good news is (I find the good somewhere) is that when assembled the engine will be broken in again on a dyno and I will get some performance numbers from it.
Sorry for the lack of an update, this failure occurred just a week before the Indy meet and I just haven't been able to go out and bring myself to get back into the project. Hopefully the next few weeks will be better
Pics 1&2 are of the rockers and pushrods "cooked". #3 is what I found when I pulled the intake, and the last one is the remnants of a cam bearing "extruded" out from its home
:icon_smile_blackeye: awww man sorry to see this !! cam too tight in cam bearing/ s cam moved bearings shut oil supply ? or oil holes miss aligned :shruggy:
looks like there was no oil anywhere up top an any time :scratchchin:
damn :icon_smile_blackeye:
Quote from: FJ5WING on September 08, 2011, 12:19:16 PM
sorry to hear about your misfortune. :pity:
Could you please help me out with what you secured the starps to on the car when you used the hoist to lift it. Im trying to figure out how Im going to put my car back together without a lift.
TIA!
FJ5Wing
Here's how I did it, right wrong or half azzed, but it worked for me
With the radiator out of the car, and the latch tray removed, I simply took two lifting straps with large hooks on the end and droped them through the latch tray area forward of the core support, then passsed the hooks through the radaitor opening. I simply "hooked" the end of the hooks over the bottom lip of the "bumper/nose support" channel bolted to the front subframe by the 4 large bolts. I then secured both lifting straps through the hook on the engine hoist and lifted it up! my straps were bright yellow and the hooks on the end are red in the pics I'm attaching. I can probably get beter detailed shots of the channel if you need it for clarity.
On a non wing car these channels would be the front bumper support brackets and also could used for the same purpose
Hey Scott,
So this is the thread that I missed when you posted in the "Aero Cars at the Brickyard" thread that the the Mopar gods had smited you. Now I can really see all the damage in the motor. That is so sad. I feel for ya, man!
I have to say that you are very resourceful with working without a car lift. I've never seen it done like that before! I'll have to take some pointers from this when I convert my transmission. I don't have a lift either and even if I did my garage is not tall enough to install one.
Did the engine shop figure out what happened? How close are to firing her up again?
Phil
Quote from: nitrometal on September 15, 2011, 04:30:26 PM
...I have to say that you are very resourceful with working without a car lift. I've never seen it done like that before! ...
Phil,,,,, easy man...... hardest part is finding a good tolley unless you make one yourself... In hindsight, I would have the wheels/tires on the rear... Sorry for the semi-hijack Scott..
Troy,
I don't plan on pulling the motor, just the tranny. But I like the way Scott has the car so high off the ground without using a lift. I think using this technique will give me the room underneath the car to do the conversion.
Scott,
I'm glad to hear that this time things are going better. I can't wait to see that bird on the road again.
Ryan
you guys keep your rear tires on and use a engine hoist to lift it? LAME! where's your sense of adventure?
Those front poles are only there because I didn't want anyone to be in the photo haha
I lifted the front of my Charger with one hand... how many of ya'll can say that? :smilielol:
Time for a quick update, here is a pic of $1,000 worth of wasted valvetrain. I'm going back to basics now, MP six pack stamped rockers and stock shafts, the heads were gone through and the block cleaned up (again) new valvetrain, valve seals, all bearings and gaskets, the engine is back together and will go on the Dyno either Friday afternoon or early next week.
any guess on HP and torque numbers?
I should start a poll
:shruggy:
496 hp 540 tq if they dyno it with the manifolds and Edelbrock. Higher if tested with headers and more mopar friendly carb. Give a complete breakdown of the build including new cam and comp ratio. Are the six pack rockers 1.6 or 1.5?
Quote from: Arnie Cunningham on September 21, 2011, 08:22:33 PM
496 hp 540 tq if they dyno it with the manifolds and Edelbrock. Higher if tested with headers and more mopar friendly carb. Give a complete breakdown of the build including new cam and comp ratio. Are the six pack rockers 1.6 or 1.5?
OK Brennan and all
here are the specs:
4.15 stroke, 9.5:1 CR, .060 over 440. Math comes out to 500.0something CID
stock (Year one Repop) Hp manifolds, Edelbrock performer intake
Ported 906 heads with 2.19 intake 1.81 exhaust valves
cam is a .548/.545 lift 237/242 duration @ .50 flat tappet hydraulic, 1.5:1 MP rockers
carb is an edelbrock 750 cfm vac secondary
Let the guesses fly!
I'll say 525hp but I'm hoping you do better!
Quote from: randr on September 21, 2011, 09:07:02 PM
I'll say 525hp but I'm hoping you do better!
WOW, I was going to guess at 450 -475 HP!
I like the way you're thinking!
Don't do any burnouts.
You should get 1hp per cube. If not more on a good motor. My 572 made just under 800hp and it's very mild!
Quote from: randr on September 21, 2011, 09:28:46 PM
You should get 1hp per cube. If not more on a good motor. My 572 made just under 800hp and it's very mild!
I would agree but with a relaively "stock " valvetrain i will be limited to 5500 rpm or so i would think...
mine made 770hp at 4000 rpm
Stock valvetrain will turn up to 6500 but you will be way past your torque peak so there is little reason to venture into that range. Especially with stock manifolds.
scotty after the carnage should you really let them use your car to advertise ? :shruggy: :smilielol:
Nice.....
i never supplied them with a pic of my car.
It is possible they lifted it from a posted pic, or they have another customer with a lue Superbird.
:scratchchin:
I see the licence plate has been "changed" as not to ID the car
Quote from: 70Sbird on September 25, 2011, 12:25:55 PM
Nice.....
i never supplied them with a pic of my car.
It is possible they lifted it from a posted pic, or they have another customer with a blue Superbird.
:scratchchin:
I see the licence plate has been "changed" as not to ID the car
No exhaust tips visible, I have the factory style tips
Quote from: 70Sbird on September 25, 2011, 01:26:42 PM
Quote from: 70Sbird on September 25, 2011, 12:25:55 PM
Nice.....
i never supplied them with a pic of my car.
It is possible they lifted it from a posted pic, or they have another customer with a blue Superbird.
:scratchchin:
I see the licence plate has been "changed" as not to ID the car
No exhaust tips visible, I have the factory style tips
yeah but that stuff gets cropped out in lay out
did u ever tell then about your car or the color or what the parts were going on ???
Quote from: moparstuart on September 26, 2011, 11:58:36 AM
yeah but that stuff gets cropped out in lay out
did u ever tell then about your car or the color or what the parts were going on ???
Sure did!
even gave a link to this post!