Well, it getting close to the time when I can start mine. Things have changed so much since I had my first charger that I'm pretty much flying blind. So here's the plan. As people make comments or I change my mind I'll update this first post so if you want to see what the current thinking is then look here.
First, what do I want? Always hard to describe but here goes. I'm not a racer, never been one, and now too old to start. Really building this car as a tribute to the new car I took delivery on the day of the first date with my current wife. Everyone wants a little more power but every time I revisit my thing, I have reduced my power requirement. Currently thinking something in the 450 - 500 HP range. Currently the car sets with a TF A/T 3.91 gears and 235/60-15 tires. Future is to go to 3.23 gears or even higher speed if I get the urge. Smooth driving, no loud roar (to keep the neighbors calm.) Almost forgot to add cost, keep it at $10K is OK, $12K and I'm starting to get nervous, $15 K and I'll have to rethink the whole deal.
forgot, A/C, I live in Houston.
So as a start I took the list from Challenger340 thread on the "lowly 440" and pasted it here. I have already thought of some alternatives but I'll try to list them and why. So to start.....
PARTS;
1976 400 Block, Bored .030"
This block was bored to clean up the cylinders for inspection but a torque plate was not used, this might require a rebore.
440 source stroker - 470 seems OK to me, but the 451 or 500 kit may work better.
Crank from the 440 kit
Clevitte Rod & Main Bearings
rods from the 440 kit
Forged F.T. Pistons
5/64" Moly Ringpack(cheap)
Stealth Heads from 440 Source (no decision yet)
CompCams XE274H Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam (there is a XE268 that may be ok)
Johnson Hylift Lifters
Performer rpm Intake Manifold
750 Holley or edelbrock
440 Source; Rockers Arms, Hold-Downs, etc., Pushrods, Windage Tray, Head Bolts, 6 qt HEMI Pan & Pickup, Balancer, Dipstick, CompCams 10* Ret & Locks
Melling HV Pump & drive
Cloyes T/Chain & Gears
Mopar Performance V/Covers
Speed Pro O/H Gasket Set
LABOR:
* Block Machine Package, ( add: Beam Connecting Rods & re-Harden)
* Balance Complete
* New Cylinder Head "Prep for Service"
* OOTB (no port work) Cylinder Heads
* Port Match Intake Manifold
* Assemble Engine
* Dyno Test & Tune Engine
So let the fun and games begin.
I'm using Sidewinder heads from Todd @ Moparts, big savings and his shop had mine ready to bolt on out of the box. Proform 750 vacuum secondary was easy to jet up and adjust to match my build and bolted to a CH4B intake left room for a insulating 1/2 spacer yet still run a dual snorkel factory air cleaner. The Firecore RTR dizzy/coil/wires set has been flawless.
Try thinking torque off the line (What you feel pulling away)and horsepower top end. (Tickets you can't pay.) If I had your budget I'd ship to or have CDR build and ship to me as the devil is in the details! :2thumbs: Good Luck!
In 24 years with many as my "main ride" A/C was the single biggest game changer for me, it's just so much more enjoyable driving and having a Charger!
My build was similar .
I did not have the money for the aftermarket heads. So had port work on my 906's. I used the XE274 cam , with comp cams, springs/ lifters/ timing set. Port matched performer RPM intake. ICON pistons. Headman headers. stock rods with ARP bolts . Had the whole mess blue printed and balanced. Cost came in around $4200 CAD. If you go with the aluminum heads your adding a min $2500 , puts you in the $7000 range... Still far short of your 10K budget.
Dont forget a Torque Converter........ and transmission rebuild.
2 new heads built, shipped to my door with new head bolts: 1,375.00 :2thumbs:
Aluminum heads ???? Where did you find that deal... :drool5:
In Canada ?
Quote from: green69rt on September 14, 2019, 04:24:53 PM
Well, it getting close to the time when I can start mine. Things have changed so much since I had my first charger that I'm pretty much flying blind. So here's the plan. As people make comments or I change my mind I'll update this first post so if you want to see what the current thinking is then look here.
First, what do I want? Always hard to describe but here goes. I'm not a racer, never been one, and now too old to start. Really building this car as a tribute to the new car I took delivery on the day of the first date with my current wife. Everyone wants a little more power but every time I revisit my thing, I have reduced my power requirement. Currently thinking something in the 450 - 500 HP range. Currently the car sets with a TF A/T 3.91 gears and 235/60-15 tires. Future is to go to 3.23 gears or even higher speed if I get the urge. Smooth driving, no loud roar (to keep the neighbors calm.) Almost forgot to add cost, keep it at $10K is OK, $12K and I'm starting to get nervous, $15 K and I'll have to rethink the whole deal.
forgot, A/C, I live in Houston.
So as a start I took the list from Challenger340 thread on the "lowly 440" and pasted it here. I have already thought of some alternatives but I'll try to list them and why. So to start.....
PARTS;
1976 400 Block, Bored .030"
This block was bored to clean up the cylinders for inspection but a torque plate was not used, this might require a rebore.
440 source stroker - 470 seems OK to me, but the 451 or 500 kit may work better.
400 Blocks while cool and strong, typically sacrifice some Piston skirt length to maintain Rod Length ? just saying.... the shorter skirt Pistons can be noisey depending up "who and how" they are fit ? and while a T-Plate is NOT required for the actual BORING process, try and find a Shop that has one for the HONING process for best result and quite Piston operation, especially in a street car.
Crank from the 440 kit
Clevitte Rod & Main Bearings
rods from the 440 kit
Forged F.T. Pistons
5/64" Moly Ringpack(cheap) Most Pistons if not ALL forgings for the low-deck 400 based performance Engines are NOT serviced with 5/64" ring packs, you will need the 1/16" or 1.5 mm ring packs,more $$
Stealth Heads from 440 Source (no decision yet) We still use the Stealth's for that "factory" under hood appearance when asked, never had a problem with them, more than capable of 500hp OOTB depending upon Cam, but neither the XE274 nor the XE268 will get there on the Stealth's OOTB.... more like 450 hp to 470 hp with those Cams
CompCams XE274H Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam (there is a XE268 that may be ok)Cam Duration @ 050/size is dependent upon Engine size? nail down what size engine FIRST before deciding, and make sure to upgrade whatever Cam to the "3-Bolt" Timing Gear configuration.
Johnson Hylift Lifters Dunno if Johnson is still a good tip, maybe just Buy Comp Cams 822-16
Performer rpm Intake Manifold
750 Holley or edelbrock We haven't experienced much success with the older eddy Carbs... maybe the newer AVS ?
440 Source; Rockers Arms, Hold-Downs, etc., Pushrods, Windage Tray, Head Bolts, 6 qt HEMI Pan & Pickup, Balancer, Dipstick, CompCams 10* Ret & Locks 440 Source Rocker Arms aren't the hot ticket IMO, maybe consider spending on the Comp Cams 1621-16 and 5/16" Hi Tech Ball & Ball Pushrods.
Melling HV Pump & drive
Cloyes T/Chain & Gears Comp Cams 2109 is fine, it is a 3-Bolt Gear and must less $$
Mopar Performance V/Covers
Speed Pro O/H Gasket Set
LABOR:
* Block Machine Package, ( add: Beam Connecting Rods & re-Harden)
* Balance Complete
* New Cylinder Head "Prep for Service"
* OOTB (no port work) Cylinder Heads
* Port Match Intake Manifold
* Assemble Engine
* Dyno Test & Tune Engine
So let the fun and games begin.
Quote from: Canadian1968 on September 15, 2019, 09:26:06 AM
My build was similar .
I did not have the money for the aftermarket heads. So had port work on my 906's. I used the XE274 cam , with comp cams, springs/ lifters/ timing set. Port matched performer RPM intake. ICON pistons. Headman headers. stock rods with ARP bolts . Had the whole mess blue printed and balanced. Cost came in around $4200 CAD. If you go with the aluminum heads your adding a min $2500 , puts you in the $7000 range... Still far short of your 10K budget.
Dont forget a Torque Converter........ and transmission rebuild.
I dunno about Aluminum Heads being
minimum $2,500. Canadian Dollars ?
We're in Canada...
and we just went through/SOLD a pair of Stealth's to a customer(from our stock)
Ported to 300 cfm @ .600" Lift
Checked/Prepped for Service W/Comp Cams 10* Locks & Retainers we installed
Freight & Taxes in was $2,500 to him ?
As a comparison... we only see 265 cfm from the OOTB Edelbrock Performer rpm's/E-Streets/Sidewinder's, etc on our Flow Bench ?
so a pretty frigg'in stout set of Stealth's ? We can't do it all the time obviously as just waaay too busy with better paying Jobs, so only on an "as time permits" basis .... just say'in... it ain't "minimum" $2,500 for Aluminum Heads in Canada ?
Thanks for the input. Getting ready to fly away tomorrow so not much time to digest all the comments. I'll update when I get back.
CDR is helping me with this project, he lives close and I'm going to use his machinist so that decision is made.
Im throwing out the 2500 number from when I was looking at heads about 2 years ago now. Maybe they have dropped
I just did a quick check.... Stealth heads, $1000 bucks for the pair, 228 Shipping to Ontario , + 13% Tax. with exchage = $1834. CAN. don't know if I would get dinged on Duty as well .
So I do stand corrected. it looks closer to $2000 mark as is OOTB with factory locks.
STill like to know where they got heads for 1375 !!
Challenger340. You are in ONtario are you not?
Sidewinder heads from Moparts. :2thumbs: http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/Sidewinder.html
Quote from: green69rt on September 15, 2019, 03:18:08 PM
Thanks for the input. Getting ready to fly away tomorrow so not much time to digest all the comments. I'll update when I get back.
CDR is helping me with this project, he lives close and I'm going to use his machinist so that decision is made.
oops, I must have missed that ?
if you've got Charlie on it then you are in GREAT hands :2thumbs:
Don't even bother on here... Engines by "Committee" are a mess ! imo, just do whatever Charlie suggests
Quote from: Canadian1968 on September 15, 2019, 06:08:29 PM
Im throwing out the 2500 number from when I was looking at heads about 2 years ago now. Maybe they have dropped
I just did a quick check.... Stealth heads, $1000 bucks for the pair, 228 Shipping to Ontario , + 13% Tax. with exchage = $1834. CAN. don't know if I would get dinged on Duty as well .
So I do stand corrected. it looks closer to $2000 mark as is OOTB with factory locks.
STill like to know where they got heads for 1375 !!
Challenger340. You are in ONtario are you not?
Nope, we're out by Fernie BC
usually Dyno in Calgary, we ship to Edmonton, Saskatoon/Swift Current and Vancouver.
Stealth Heads we're usually all in somewhere around $1,500 to $1,600 CND depending on USD exchange rate, but we order multiple sets at a time..... same as E-Streets, etc., sometimes half a dozen pairs at a time ?
I mean it only makes sense time-wise ? which, all we do is charge for our
TIME which seems the fairest way everybody can live with ?
If you can then split the Hour it takes to order SIX of something 6 ways it's minimal charge ?
Quote from: b5blue on September 15, 2019, 10:31:59 PM
Sidewinder heads from Moparts. :2thumbs: http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/Sidewinder.html
Pretty cool .... Not that I have the money to get a set of heads right now even at a great price like that !!
But always good to know where i can get them ,
Challenger340 that is a great price and shows what you can get when you buy in " bulk " , great to show you pass that on to your customers as well !!!
But I will step out as I have slightly hijacked this thread!!!
Quote from: Challenger340 on September 16, 2019, 04:08:45 PM
Quote from: green69rt on September 15, 2019, 03:18:08 PM
Thanks for the input. Getting ready to fly away tomorrow so not much time to digest all the comments. I'll update when I get back.
CDR is helping me with this project, he lives close and I'm going to use his machinist so that decision is made.
oops, I must have missed that ?
if you've got Charlie on it then you are in GREAT hands :2thumbs:
Don't even bother on here... Engines by "Committee" are a mess ! imo, just do whatever Charlie suggests
Thanks Bob, I am very humbled by this coming from you.
Quote from: Challenger340 on September 16, 2019, 04:08:45 PM
.......if you've got Charlie on it then you are in GREAT hands :2thumbs:
Don't even bother on here... Engines by "Committee" are a mess ! imo, just do whatever Charlie suggests
Good advice right there. Otherwise, we'll have you spinning in circles in no time.
We need a donut emoji.
Quote from: BSB67 on September 17, 2019, 05:29:38 AM
Quote from: Challenger340 on September 16, 2019, 04:08:45 PM
.......if you've got Charlie on it then you are in GREAT hands :2thumbs:
Don't even bother on here... Engines by "Committee" are a mess ! imo, just do whatever Charlie suggests
Good advice right there. Otherwise, we'll have you spinning in circles in no time.
I am familiar with "design by committee" so maybe I'll just update the first post with the actual bid and work with CDR and the machine shop.
I would leave the 1st post as is so it can be seen what, if any, changes you make for future reference.
So, things are happening. Got a 1976 400 block from a guy in Ohio. Already cleaned and bored .030 over. CDR and I agree on the heads. E-street heads($1335 US includes tax). They came in two days from Summit.
Now what to do with the old 383. Not much of an engine but someone could build it up. I'll hang on to it for a while and ask around. Shipping this thing could be a chore.
One funny thing I found is the valley pan had an extra metal plate under the intake. I took it off and found some insulation under it. :shruggy: Guess it helps to keep the carb cool.
What chamber size on the E-Streets? Are those straight plug? Decide on a piston yet?
Quote from: BSB67 on October 09, 2019, 07:09:39 PM
What chamber size on the E-Streets? Are those straight plug? Decide on a piston yet?
84cc, straight plug going 440 source 470cid
4.375"
(.035 over)
(Dish)-17cc 1.480" -.007" 9.6-1 w84cc 400.470.5070
Quote from: cdr on October 09, 2019, 08:15:18 PM
Quote from: BSB67 on October 09, 2019, 07:09:39 PM
What chamber size on the E-Streets? Are those straight plug? Decide on a piston yet?
84cc, straight plug going 440 source 470cid
4.375"
(.035 over)
(Dish)-17cc 1.480" -.007" 9.6-1 w84cc 400.470.5070
Wise choices :2thumbs:
this will be a fine mill !
Are you building this around HP exhaust or headers? I'm starting a build and would like to run HP exhaust and get 500 HP (550 tq) if possible.
Quote from: davidcam69 on October 17, 2019, 08:43:28 PM
Are you building this around HP exhaust or headers? I'm starting a build and would like to run HP exhaust and get 500 HP (550 tq) if possible.
The original 383 was a 2bbl so there are no HP exhaust available to me. Headers it is. And I probably (but things change) have more modest HP expectations than you so we'll see what it produces. Dyno results will be posted. Don't expect anything till around the new year. The shop is really backed up and I still have a lot of prep to do, parts to buy, decisions to make. This is great fun!!
I'm not going to post anything on here till I actually order stuff so stand buy.
Quote from: davidcam69 on October 17, 2019, 08:43:28 PM
Are you building this around HP exhaust or headers? I'm starting a build and would like to run HP exhaust and get 500 HP (550 tq) if possible.
What cubic inch and what budget?
500 cu in with a reasonable budget, easy. 445 cu in on a tight budget, not so easy.
Quote from: BSB67 on October 18, 2019, 11:52:25 AM
Quote from: davidcam69 on October 17, 2019, 08:43:28 PM
Are you building this around HP exhaust or headers? I'm starting a build and would like to run HP exhaust and get 500 HP (550 tq) if possible.
What cubic inch and what budget?
500 cu in with a reasonable budget, easy. 445 cu in on a tight budget, not so easy.
I'm approaching my requirements differently than Davidcam69. I started out with some HP numbers, etc like a most people do. After many conversations with CDR we are now going after performance requirements rather than outright HP numbers. I'm going after a fun-to-drive, good running street car with plenty of HP. Good vacuum to operate the headlight doors, runs on pump gas and I may be able to drive it to different altitudes without worrying about tuning changes. So, why did you choose 500 HP/550 TQ?
Quote from: green69rt on October 18, 2019, 12:38:42 PM
Quote from: BSB67 on October 18, 2019, 11:52:25 AM
Quote from: davidcam69 on October 17, 2019, 08:43:28 PM
Are you building this around HP exhaust or headers? I'm starting a build and would like to run HP exhaust and get 500 HP (550 tq) if possible.
What cubic inch and what budget?
500 cu in with a reasonable budget, easy. 445 cu in on a tight budget, not so easy.
I'm approaching my requirements differently than Davidcam69. I started out with some HP numbers, etc like a most people do. After many conversations with CDR we are now going after performance requirements rather than outright HP numbers. I'm going after a fun-to-drive, good running street car with plenty of HP. Good vacuum to operate the headlight doors, runs on pump gas and I may be able to drive it to different altitudes without worrying about tuning changes. So, why did you choose 500 HP/550 TQ?
Altitude would still affect the tune, building this combination so Mitch can travel in the Charger & if he is out in the middle of nowhere & cant find 89, 93 octane fuel he will be able to run 87 octane in a pinch.
I am eagerly watching this thread. I have A 440 to 505 engine build in progress. My build is going to be a little more aggressive. I'm shooting for mid 550 horsepower and over 600 torque, already have the short block done with the 440 source stroker kit installed, oiling system done, next thing is the cam and heads and valve train.. My build is using a hydraulic roller Cam and trick flow power port 240 heads. The problem I'm having is other things have soaked up my cash and the build has stalled. I think with what you guys are doing is more doable probably going to cost less. Keep it going.
Just lost my long post. I am not on a tight budget and I want to do it right. What I want is a torque monster that has Hp exhaust and stock air cleaner that fits under my stock hood. I think the 440 source heads are the only heads that would pull off the stock look. If I had to use something else, I would use header and not worry about stock look. Can't wait for your input Russ. I think you run what I would like. See if this will post.
Mitch I hope you don't mind us hijacking your thread. Perfect timing for me. I have two 440s and a 400 I stripped ready to take to Mid America Racing Engines here in Iowa. Haven't talked to them yet.
Everyone is also interested in cost. Here's what I am out so far:
Block. Bare and hot tanked. Bored 0.030. $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone. Now only about $100 for a hone out to 0.035, so about $375 plus shipping for the block.
Edlebrook E-street heads $1335.42 with tax. (Just saw on sale :brickwall:)
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax. $2571.16
Total to date $4431.58
Quote from: davidcam69 on October 19, 2019, 02:08:17 PM
Just lost my long post. I am not on a tight budget and I want to do it right. What I want is a torque monster that has Hp exhaust and stock air cleaner that fits under my stock hood. I think the 440 source heads are the only heads that would pull off the stock look. If I had to use something else, I would use header and not worry about stock look. Can't wait for your input Russ. I think you run what I would like. See if this will post.
Probably shouldn't hijack the OP's thread.
Yeah, your right.
Quote from: davidcam69 on October 19, 2019, 07:46:03 PM
Yeah, your right.
But you could post a link on this thread to your's. :yesnod: So people can find it.
Tmb84 has this thread going under Proven Engine Combinations that's pretty good and on point with these discussions.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,129707.0.html
The requirement of "enough vaccum to run the headlight doors" always makes me giggle. My .750 lift, 290 @ .050 runs the headlights without a canistor effortlessly.
Block. Bare and hot tanked. Bored 0.030. $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone. Now only about $100 for a hone out to 0.035, so about $375 plus shipping for the block.
Edlebrook E-street heads $1335.42 with tax. (Just saw on sale :brickwall:)
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax. $2571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping. 232.56
Total to date $5189.14
Quote from: davidcam69 on October 19, 2019, 02:08:17 PM
Just lost my long post. I am not on a tight budget and I want to do it right. What I want is a torque monster that has Hp exhaust and stock air cleaner that fits under my stock hood. I think the 440 source heads are the only heads that would pull off the stock look. If I had to use something else, I would use header and not worry about stock look. Can't wait for your input Russ. I think you run what I would like. See if this will post.
The "stock" appearance was a big factor to our using the Stealth Heads for the "lowly 440" series of engine builds here:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,106687.0.html
Through Lots of R & D and Dyno time over the years......
we've now upgraded the Cam and Head/V-Seats package used in those Engine builds, to substantially overcome the HP Exhaust Manifold and factory N96 Air Cleaner restrictions.
Last .030" over 440(Non-Stroker) still topped 515hp with 545 FT/Lbs through it's installed Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner and HP Exhaust Manifolds, which we're proud of that as you may guess ?
All done on a SuperFlow SF902 Engine Dyno... so
real Flywheel numbers.
400 Block. Bare and hot tanked. Bored 0.030. $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone. Now only about $100 for a hone out to 0.035, so about $375 plus shipping for the block.
Edlebrook E-street heads $1335.42 with tax. (Just saw on sale :brickwall:)
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax. $2571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping. 232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger. 217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit. Shipping 259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax. 795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping. 386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) 15.13
Total as of 11/19 $6863.15
Latest update.
400 Block. Bare and hot tanked. Bored 0.030. $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone. Now only about $100 for a hone out to 0.035, so about $375 plus shipping for the block.
Edlebrook E-street heads $1335.42 with tax. (Just saw on sale :brickwall:)
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax. $2571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping. 232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger. 217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit. Shipping 259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax. 795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping. 386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax. $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax $359.59
Valve covers w/tax $181.43
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping $1138.60 :o
MSD dist and coil w/tax $512.41
Total as of 11/19 $9555.90
Quote from: green69rt on December 17, 2019, 07:45:56 PM
Latest update.
400 Block. Bare and hot tanked. Bored 0.030. $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone. Now only about $100 for a hone out to 0.035, so about $375 plus shipping for the block.
Edlebrook E-street heads $1335.42 with tax. (Just saw on sale :brickwall:)
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax. $2571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping. 232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger. 217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit. Shipping 259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax. 795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping. 386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax. $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax $359.59
Valve covers w/tax $181.43
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping $1138.60 :o
MSD dist and coil w/tax $512.41
Total as of 11/19 $9555.90
This is extremely helpful for others.... THANKS for keeping us informed !
:2thumbs:
Quote from: Challenger340 on December 22, 2019, 01:51:08 PM
Quote from: green69rt on December 17, 2019, 07:45:56 PM
Latest update.
400 Block. Bare and hot tanked. Bored 0.030. $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone. Now only about $100 for a hone out to 0.035, so about $375 plus shipping for the block.
Edlebrook E-street heads $1335.42 with tax. (Just saw on sale :brickwall:)
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax. $2571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping. 232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger. 217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit. Shipping 259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax. 795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping. 386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax. $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax $359.59
Valve covers w/tax $181.43
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping $1138.60 :o
MSD dist and coil w/tax $512.41
Total as of 11/19 $9555.90
This is extremely helpful for others.... THANKS for keeping us informed !
:2thumbs:
Not a problem and glad to share.
update 12/22/2019
400 Block. Bare and hot tanked. Bored 0.030. $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone. Now only about $100 for a hone out to 0.035, so about $375 plus shipping for the block.
Edlebrook E-street heads $1335.42 with tax. (Just saw on sale :brickwall:)
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax. $2571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping. 232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger. 217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit. Shipping 259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax. 795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping. 386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax. $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax $359.59
Valve covers w/tax $181.43
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping $1138.60 :o
MSD dist and coil w/tax $512.41
Solid Flex plate, bolt kit, billit timing pointer (bling), shipping $131.07
Total as of $9686.97
Some remaining items
Carb, starter, alt, Radiator and fan
Did the firefighter engine mount mod. Pretty easy. Hardest part was finding the bolts.
:2thumbs:
Quote from: green69rt on December 24, 2019, 04:21:37 PM
Did the firefighter engine mount mod. Pretty easy. Hardest part was finding the bolts.
Nice work....those will be bomb proof ! :2thumbs:
What size stroker are you building ? What is the compression ratio ?
The XE274 may be a bit small on a 500ci build. I helped with a similar build years ago and specced a bigger cam (custom grind) for Mike's build and it was all done at 5000 rpm.
Here's a good read on that build with dyno numbers ;
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43911.0.html
Ron
Quote from: firefighter3931 on December 27, 2019, 09:41:31 AM
Quote from: green69rt on December 24, 2019, 04:21:37 PM
Did the firefighter engine mount mod. Pretty easy. Hardest part was finding the bolts.
Nice work....those will be bomb proof ! :2thumbs:
What size stroker are you building ? What is the compression ratio ?
The XE274 may be a bit small on a 500ci build. I helped with a similar build years ago and specced a bigger cam (custom grind) for Mike's build and it was all done at 5000 rpm.
Here's a good read on that build with dyno numbers ;
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43911.0.html
Ron
Forgot to put the CI spec in. 470 CI. Probably around 9.6 - 9.7 CR I expect the engine will top out in the 5000-5200 range.
Quote from: green69rt on December 28, 2019, 09:25:38 PM
Quote from: firefighter3931 on December 27, 2019, 09:41:31 AM
Quote from: green69rt on December 24, 2019, 04:21:37 PM
Did the firefighter engine mount mod. Pretty easy. Hardest part was finding the bolts.
Nice work....those will be bomb proof ! :2thumbs:
What size stroker are you building ? What is the compression ratio ?
The XE274 may be a bit small on a 500ci build. I helped with a similar build years ago and specced a bigger cam (custom grind) for Mike's build and it was all done at 5000 rpm.
Here's a good read on that build with dyno numbers ;
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43911.0.html
Ron
Forgot to put the CI spec in. 470 CI. Probably around 9.6 - 9.7 CR I expect the engine will top out in the 5000-5200 range.
The XE274 will work fine in a mild 470 and the peak power will be where you thing it'll be (5k-5.2K) :2thumbs:
I'd expect it to make in the neighbourhood of 1hp/cubic inch and be very pleasant to drive. ;)
Ron
Quote from: firefighter3931 on December 31, 2019, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: green69rt on December 28, 2019, 09:25:38 PM
Quote from: firefighter3931 on December 27, 2019, 09:41:31 AM
Quote from: green69rt on December 24, 2019, 04:21:37 PM
Did the firefighter engine mount mod. Pretty easy. Hardest part was finding the bolts.
Nice work....those will be bomb proof ! :2thumbs:
What size stroker are you building ? What is the compression ratio ?
The XE274 may be a bit small on a 500ci build. I helped with a similar build years ago and specced a bigger cam (custom grind) for Mike's build and it was all done at 5000 rpm.
Here's a good read on that build with dyno numbers ;
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43911.0.html
Ron
Forgot to put the CI spec in. 470 CI. Probably around 9.6 - 9.7 CR I expect the engine will top out in the 5000-5200 range.
The XE274 will work fine in a mild 470 and the peak power will be where you thing it'll be (5k-5.2K) :2thumbs:
I'd expect it to make in the neighbourhood of 1hp/cubic inch and be very pleasant to drive. ;)
Ron
Exactly what I'm looking for. More to come.
AS of 1/6/2020
400 Block. Bare and hot tanked. Bored 0.030. $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone. $1,050.00
So saved those labor costs. So block works out to about $375 plus shipping.
Edlebrook E-street heads with tax. $1,335.42
440 source 470 CI stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax. $2,571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping. $232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger. $217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit. Shipping $259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax. $795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping. $386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax. $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax $359.59
Valve covers w/tax $181.43
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping $1,138.60
MSD dist and coil w/tax $512.41
Solid Flex plate, bolt kit, billit timing pointer (bling), shipping $131.07
Edlebrock Valve cover set w/tax $251.73
Proform Black Street Series Carburetors 67314 w/tax $554.62
used off of old 383, dist hold down, damper bolt. $0.00
Total $10,493.32
Some remaining items
starter, alt, Radiator
As of 1/21/2020
400 Block. Bare and hot tanked. Bored 0.030. $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone. $1,050.00
So saved those labor costs. So block works out to about $375 plus shipping.
Edlebrook E-street heads with tax. $1,335.42
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax. $2,571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping. $232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger. $217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit. Shipping $259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax. $795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping. $386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax. $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax $359.59
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping $1,138.60
MSD dist and HE coil w/tax $512.41
Solid Flex plate, bolt kit, billit timing pointer (bling), shipping $131.07
Edlebrock Valve cover set w/tax $251.73
Proform Black Street Series Carburetors 67314 w/tax $554.62
I reused off of old 383, dist hold down, damper bolt. $0.00
Rear main seal cap, bolts, seals, intake gaskets(4), water pump neck bolts, shipping $97.56
Starter, tax $171.71
Spark plug wires $141.00
wire seperators, intake bolts, carb studs, shipping, tax $62.50
Dipstick,SS thermostat housing (bling), tax $120.98
Total $10905.64
Items bought by the machine shop (no cost yet)
Spark plugs
Head gaskets
Push rods
Won't be long now! :2thumbs:
I visited the machine shop last Friday. Block/crank/pistons assembled. This week to start on the heads. Break down and check valves and springs then back cut the intakes. It may be on the dyno in the next two weeks. I'm not pushing. Just ordered a Cope Super Street transmission, estimate 2-3 weeks for delivery.
:popcrn: :popcrn: :2thumbs: :scratchchin:
So far, so good.
What did the cam degree to when checked? What is left to do to the car?
Quote from: b5blue on January 24, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
What did the cam degree to when checked? What is left to do to the car?
Cam installed with 2 degree advance, I think. Have to check the cam card.
Car still needs most of the interior, seats, carpet, seat belts and some small items. The biggest thing on the outside is to do the grill, headlight frame. I've been accumulating the rest of the engine bay stuff over the last few weeks in preparation of installing the engine. Things like radiator, fans, trans support, various linkages. Seems like that when getting down to the wire things really slow down because of all the tiny things that need to happen. Still need alt, PS pump, some pulleys. I have a ton of brackets but will have to wait to see what fits. Also some of the linkages will probably need to be changed due to the intake and carb. I also want to set up a relay system for the head lights, so that's another thing. Then to top it off, finish the AC system install. Need a drive shaft and to set the pinion angle. Then do a front end alignment.
Still need to spec and order the torque converter, Comp cams recommends something in the 2200 - 2400 stall range, I don't have any other info on that.
Hey that is a bunch to do still! :o Write everything on the engine details down, part numbers/specifications get forgotten. I wrote it all in the FSM. Good Luck!! :2thumbs:
Did you ever drive your car on the road before you started your restore ?
Just wondering if you still have to go get it inspected also before it hits the road
Your to do list is not very small yet to think about a first ride date :(
Quote from: 70 sublime on January 24, 2020, 12:24:04 PM
Did you ever drive your car on the road before you started your restore ?
Just wondering if you still have to go get it inspected also before it hits the road
Your to do list is not very small yet to think about a first ride date :(
I drove it off the transport and into the garage July 2007. That was the last time it moved under its own power.
Yes, there is a safety inspection in TX, but no emissions test for old cars ( >20 years old, I think.)
I could make my own headlight relay harness but these look tempting: https://ceautoelectricsupply.com/headlight-relay-kits/
I like these Alternators best again tempting: https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/pages/ChryslerMegaAmp.php I have a Denso 120amp that puts out 50-60 amps @ idle. (@ Idle is the critical rating point.)
More info and probably put the engine on the stand tomorrow (Friday.) Dyno runs Monday.
400 Block. Bare and hot tanked. Bored 0.030. $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone. $1,050.00
So saved those labor costs. So block works out to about $375 plus shipping.
Edlebrook E-street heads with tax. $1,335.42
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax. $2,571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping. $232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger. $217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit. Shipping $259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax. $795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping. $386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax. $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax $359.59
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping $1,138.60
MSD dist and HE coil w/tax $512.41
Solid Flex plate, bolt kit, billit timing pointer (bling), shipping $131.07
Edlebrock Valve cover set w/tax $251.73
Proform Black Street Series Carburetors 67314 w/tax $554.62
used off of old 383, dist hold down, damper bolt. $0.00
Rear main seal cap, bolts, seals, intake gaskets(4), water pump neck bolts, shipping $97.56
Starter, tax $171.71
Spark plug wires $141.00
wire seperators, intake bolts, carb studs, shipping, tax $62.50
Dipstick,SS thermostat housing (bling), tax $120.98
Carb Fuel line w/press gage, tax,shipping $73.42
Breather cap, valve cover studs, tax, shipping $61.49
Total $11,040.55
Some remaining items
alt
OK foks. Everyone likes to see dyno numbers so here they are. I going to put up several posts to show how things progressed at the shop.
First, recount to the engine build.
400 block bored .035 over with a 440 Source stroker to 470CI. Final CR 9.6.
Comp cam XE274H cam installed with 2 Deg advance.
E-street heads OOTB except back cut intakes at 35 Degree.
Proform 850 Carb OOTB
MSD RTR dist installed OOTB
Dyno test with 2" fender well headers because my 1 7/8" TTI's would not clear the dyno bracing.
Notes on first run.
34 total advance on dist, no vacuum.
Note water temp, 150-155 DegF.
Max HP 440 at 4700RPM
Max TQ 536 at 4000RMP
Got some valve float starting around 5000 RPM, notice HP jumps up at 5200 RPM. Considerable noise at that RPM.
Next run.
set dist advance to 36 Deg. No other changes
Max HP 444 at 4700RPM
Max TQ 541 at 3900RPM
More Valve float noise above 5000RPM
Next run.
At this point I asked why the water temp was so low. Reply was that it was due to the cool weather . I asked if there was some way to boost it. So did, now water temp is about 165 Deg.
Not much change, if any in power and torque, but valve float noise was much reduced and seemed to come in a little later. Note that the big changes in HP and torque above 5000 RPM are much smaller.
If a little temperature was good, more should be better. Now about 180 Deg!
Engine is even quieter above 5200 RPM although still some noise. You can see that the operator cranked the throttle up to 5600RPM. No gain but the engine seemed OK.
No change in HP or TRQ.
Next pull used timing of 38 Deg. Had an actual HP/TRQ decrease, so nothing to show. Looks like I'll be running 36 Deg of advance.
Up to now there was no vacuum advance. So set the dist at 6 deg advance with no vacuum and then hook up the vacuum.
HP/TRQ are both down so this is not enough. But the engine seems to run smoother, maybe just imagination. :shruggy:
Now with 10 Deg advance. After this we made a run with 12 Deg advance and the power went down so it looks like 10 Deg with vacuum is good.
This was also the very best run-to-date for HP, 451 at 4600 RPM. Nice wide TRQ band. Maybe do some more tuning when I get the engine installed and my headers on. My guess is that the smaller headers will add some HP/TRQ but I probably won't be able to tell when I'm driving around.
Interesting.
So you have your timing down. But you did not do anything to the carb?? I don't see any A/F ratios on the dyno sheets. Do you know what the engine was running at?
I feel like there is some more power in there.
Were the intake and heads gasket matched at???................ Sorry just looked at your very first post!!! You did have it them port matched
Thanks for posting.
It looks like the valve train is going away at 4600 - 4700 rpm or so. The data look a bit unreliable after that. I don't think the little changes you were making between runs explains the large swings in performance from run to run. Did you guys actually do something to improve the valve train performance?
I bet graphing the data of all runs on one large graph would be telling.
What was your oil pressure, and what weight oil did you use?
Yeah, something not happy and missing here ?
Power is up and down like a toilet seat and all over the map ?
Sorry I was not able to make it Mitch, I am still pretty sick, wish they would have had afr reading & try to address the valvetrain issues, noise ect, that motor will make more power if that problem was fixed, & jetting of the carb, even where its at now it will scare the crap out of you.
Quote from: cdr on February 03, 2020, 07:55:21 PM
Sorry I was not able to make it Mitch, I am still pretty sick, wish they would have had afr reading & try to address the valvetrain issues, noise ect, that motor will make more power if that problem was fixed, & jetting of the carb, even where its at now it will scare the crap out of you.
I agree Charlie....
LOTS left in that Engine ! nonetheless, it will still rock as is.
Hope your feeling better soon.
Quote from: cdr on February 03, 2020, 07:55:21 PM
Sorry I was not able to make it Mitch, I am still pretty sick, wish they would have had afr reading & try to address the valvetrain issues, noise ect, that motor will make more power if that problem was fixed, & jetting of the carb, even where its at now it will scare the crap out of you.
Good to hear from you, Charlie. I had lots of fun.
Yes valve train issues with these heads. If I wanted to do anything over 5000 RPM, there would need to be some work done, probably springs. They asked if I wanted to tear the head down again and add higher rate springs. I declined. Also, every time they upped the coolant temp the engine got quieter so we'll see what happens in a Houston summer. The oil was still the break in oil. For me, it's going to be fine for a while. I'll be able to get Charlie to help with final tuning, not many folks out there that can tune a carburated car today.
I'm happy with it as first step.
I am about ready to buy the rockers for my 440 to 505 build. I have recently learned something that may help you. I am using a hydraulic roller cam and Harland Sharp roller rockers. Using the Trick Flow PP240 heads. Harland Sharp rockers are listed for big block mopar, BUT, they list the same part number except it has an E after it if using with Edelbrock or Trick Flow heads. I called in to Mancini this morning and asked about that. Mancini told me a customer was using the standard big block Mopar roller rockers with Eddy heads and had trouble, HS made a revised rocker for the Eddy and TF heads, put an E at the end of the part number. The revised rocker is what I must use.
Any one have better info?
Quote from: Paul G on February 03, 2020, 09:06:11 PM
I am about ready to buy the rockers for my 440 to 505 build. I have recently learned something that may help you. I am using a hydraulic roller cam and Harland Sharp roller rockers. Using the Trick Flow PP240 heads. Harland Sharp rockers are listed for big block mopar, BUT, they list the same part number except it has an E after it if using with Edelbrock or Trick Flow heads. I called in to Mancini this morning and asked about that. Mancini told me a customer was using the standard big block Mopar roller rockers with Eddy heads and had trouble, HS made a revised rocker for the Eddy and TF heads, put an E at the end of the part number. The revised rocker is what I must use.
Any one have better info?
Its the distance between the the rocker shaft center line and valve center line being slightly different from the factory head. Really not that big of a deal. Using one on the other would not cause anything like what the OP is experiencing.
As far as the comment about the valve train going away at 4700, that seems a little low to me. I think the cam and springs are done at 5000, and then depending on everything else, I might get another 100 or 200 RPM out of it, but it's not worth anything and things are falling off fairly fast at that point. Looking at the graphs (sorry I didn't get them printed out) everything was really smooth and even, various runs had small changes but they laid on top of each other fairly close. Yes, the timing changes made a few HP here and there but nothing to get excited about. I am disappointed that they did not use a AFR meter.
We did have a discussion on the next step. Given that the pulls were done with different headers and out of the car, the guys said that anything beyond what we tested may be wasted effort. Get the engine in the car, mount the headers and then see what can be done. That's where CDR will come in. But in the end, 10 more HP may not make much diff in how it feels in the seat of my pants.
Right now the spark plugs looked really good, idle was smooth and the pulls were nice and even up to 5000 RPM. And 540 ftlbs of torque!! That seems like a gob!
Final comment. The valve float at high RPM was distinctly different when we changed the coolant temp from 155 (noisy) to 165 to 180 (quietest). Could it be that the lifters were the problem because of the changing viscosity of the oil?
Do you by chance know what the installed V/Spring Pressure and rate was ? as it was run on the Dyno ?
Quote from: Challenger340 on February 04, 2020, 12:13:21 AM
Do you by chance know what the installed V/Spring Pressure and rate was ? as it was run on the Dyno ?
Than you Bob :) The Machine shop should know, we had them take the heads apart, back cut intake valves, check & reassemble them.
Charlie, pm sent
Quote from: Challenger340 on February 04, 2020, 12:13:21 AM
Do you by chance know what the installed V/Spring Pressure and rate was ? as it was run on the Dyno ?
I think this is right. Measured at 125 on the seat, 305 at max lift(0.6). I'll confirm. My cam is .488/.491.
Final
400 Block. Bare and hot tanked. Bored 0.030. $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone. $1,050.00
So saved those labor costs. So block works out to about $375 plus shipping.
Edlebrook E-street heads with tax. $1,335.42
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax. $2,571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping. $232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger. $217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit. Shipping $259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax. $795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping. $386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax. $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax $359.59
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping $1,138.60
MSD dist and HE coil w/tax $512.41
Solid Flex plate, bolt kit, billit timing pointer (bling), shipping $131.07
Edlebrock Valve cover set w/tax $251.73
Proform Black Street Series Carburetors 67314 w/tax $554.62
used off of old 383, dist hold down, damper bolt. $0.00
Rear main seal cap, bolts, seals, intake gaskets(4), water pump neck bolts, shipping $97.56
Starter, tax $171.71
Spark plug wires $141.00
wire seperators, intake bolts, carb studs, shipping, tax $62.50
Dipstick,SS thermostat housing (bling), tax $120.98
Carb Fuel line w/press gage, tax,shipping $73.42
Breather cap, valve cover studs, tax, shipping $61.49
Labor including hot tank, freeze plugs, final assembly, Shim springs 0.060,
backcut intake valves 30 deg. $2800
Misc parts including cam bearings, freeze plugs, gaskets, pushrods, spark plugs, oil, gas, tax $400.53
Grand Total $14,241.08
[/quote]
171.00 for a starter? :scratchchin: What did they sell you?
Those are very nice numbers for a mild street build. It'll be a blast to drive with all that bottom end power. :2thumbs:
Instant tire smoke at 1/2 throttle :drive:
Good job guys ! :cheers:
Ron
Quote from: firefighter3931 on February 20, 2020, 09:10:53 PM
Those are very nice numbers for a mild street build. It'll be a blast to drive with all that bottom end power. :2thumbs:
Instant tire smoke at 1/2 throttle :drive:
Good job guys ! :cheers:
Ron
Not quite the end of the story. After talking to the machine shop and Charlie, the shop added .060 shims under the springs (expect to add about 25 lbs pressure,) Jeff (machine shop owner) recommended to get away from the valve float problem. No more dyno runs because they already took it off the stand so we won't know anything till it is in the car and we fire it up. Given the way I drive, the shims will be enough improvement that I'll be satisfied. Just for info, the springs on the estreet head are really low pressure, according to Edlebrock the spring pressure is only 280 at .480 lift, 138 on the seat. Maybe not the best setup for a XE cam... :shruggy:
Quote from: b5blue on February 09, 2020, 10:46:40 AM
171.00 for a starter? :scratchchin: What did they sell you?
Not my smartest choice. It was a PowerMaster starter from Summit. Nice thing about it is that the terminals easily cleared the block.
Send it back! :lol: https://www.aspwholesale.com/terminal-block-nd-p7746.html
Quote from: b5blue on February 21, 2020, 10:41:02 AM
Send it back! :lol: https://www.aspwholesale.com/terminal-block-nd-p7746.html
It's now a used part, no returns. But that is an interesting solution.
Just teasing ya!
Quote from: b5blue on February 22, 2020, 10:29:50 AM
Just teasing ya!
Well, dang! Now I have to get down off my hi horse. ( still a neat solution.)
This looks great!!
Pic #1,2,3 Transmission arrived and in garage.
Pic #4 Trans in the car ready for converter and engine.
Pic #5 engine bolted up to trans, and motor mounts, headers in
Got to say, putting those headers in was a pain. Biggest problem was the driver side. Turns out the header is directly blocking the long bolt that attaches the mount to the k frame. No way to bolt the mount to the engine and then bolt to k frame. Two options, leave the header in place but dangling free while bolting up the mounts then bolt down the header. Or, bolt mount to the k frame, install engine and then bolt mount to engine. TTI recommends first method and it worked.
Edit: before I forget...the bolts for the motor mount are different for my 76 block vs the old 69 383 block. a couple of the ears that are on the block are thicker and require a longer bolt.
:o AWESOMENESS !!! :2thumbs:
If nothing else, it is pretty. Getting the trans cross member in today. Had to stop while the bolts cool down from RPM treatment.
Looking good SIR! :2thumbs:
Where did you get the SS thermostat housing from?
Motor looks sharp.
Quote from: sy440m on March 20, 2020, 07:04:00 PM
Where did you get the SS thermostat housing from?
Motor looks sharp.
Polished aluminum I bet.
Natural SS. I shied away from aluminum because I thought it might be to soft and distort. Then wouldn't seal. It was expensive but I thought of it as jewelry on the engine.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/prs-1064
Quote from: green69rt on March 21, 2020, 08:12:25 AM
Natural SS. I shied away from aluminum because I thought it might be to soft and distort. Then wouldn't seal. It was expensive but I thought of it as jewelry on the engine.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/prs-1064
Ouch that works out to $135.59 Canadian
PS green69rt did you notice with your last post you have 3,333 posts :icon_smile_tongue:
Quote from: green69rt on March 21, 2020, 08:12:25 AM
Natural SS. I shied away from aluminum because I thought it might be to soft and distort. Then wouldn't seal. It was expensive but I thought of it as jewelry on the engine.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/prs-1064
Thanks for the info
Quote from: 70 sublime on March 21, 2020, 08:55:14 AM
Quote from: green69rt on March 21, 2020, 08:12:25 AM
Natural SS. I shied away from aluminum because I thought it might be to soft and distort. Then wouldn't seal. It was expensive but I thought of it as jewelry on the engine.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/prs-1064
Ouch that works out to $135.59 Canadian
PS green69rt did you notice with your last post you have 3,333 posts :icon_smile_tongue:
Took almost exactly 11 years to get there. Also note that the same eleven years is how long I've been working on my car!! I had to learn so much along the way, welding, metal work, body work, painting, electrical, etc, etc, etc. I worked fairly steadily, sometimes only 3 or 4 hours in a week, sometimes 6 hours in one day, sometimes no work for weeks. Getting soooooo close!
(oops, now it's 3334)
Looks great...getting close to hitting the streets AND with great gas prices!
When I bought this car, years ago, the previous owner had purchased a bunch of stuff. Among the stuff was a new exhaust system. First picture shows what he bought. I suspect it came from Summit but I have no receipt. I got underneath to see what would fit. The front pipes won't fit at all. They go in the junk pile (I'll save them just in case.) I talked to CDR and his opinion is that the mufflers are also junk. So, maybe I can use the tail pipes.
First step, call TTI and get a H-pipe that will fit. Test fitted and they look like they'll work (second pic.)
Still need mufflers.
So, started shopping for a muffler. Usual choices. To thin the herd, I think I'll stick with Flowmaster or Dynomax. Chambered or straight thru? I really don't want a lot of noise when I drive into my driveway (neighbors) but some won't hurt(another of those wishy-washy specs :icon_smile_big: ). First look came up with the flowmaster delta flow 50. This is a chambered unit. Haven't investigated the dynomax yet.
The standard 50s are not my favorite. For a chambered muffler, If you want a ripe muscle car sound without insane tin can and resonance, the flowmaster super 50 is the way to go.
https://youtu.be/9gpncCxfZ44.
I also like the fx series from flowmaster. It is a straight through style like the dynomax ultrflo for half the cost.
https://youtu.be/e9LkLjOifiM
Quote from: BSB67 on February 03, 2020, 07:13:49 PM
Thanks for posting.
It looks like the valve train is going away at 4600 - 4700 rpm or so. The data look a bit unreliable after that. I don't think the little changes you were making between runs explains the large swings in performance from run to run. Did you guys actually do something to improve the valve train performance?
I bet graphing the data of all runs on one large graph would be telling.
What was your oil pressure, and what weight oil did you use?
Lifters I am guessing , and why advance the cam two more degrees when four is already built in
Way to low RPMs for those E Street Heads and that Camshaft
I have two friends that run that same setup on 383 Strokers , and make great power past 5500 On those same E Street Heads I installed and same camshaft
I know the original poster talked a lot about valve spring pressure later on , those same #5792 Valve Springs are used on most RPM heads also and have been good past 6,000 RPMs
Torque is awesome down low , but to drop off so much at 4700 RPMs Is not the norm
Anyways can't wait for him to get it on the street and see the progress
Beautiful Car :2thumbs:
Quote from: green69rt on March 29, 2020, 02:15:03 PM
So, started shopping for a muffler. Usual choices. To thin the herd, I think I'll stick with Flowmaster or Dynomax. Chambered or straight thru? I really don't want a lot of noise when I drive into my driveway (neighbors) but some won't hurt(another of those wishy-washy specs :icon_smile_big: ). First look came up with the flowmaster delta flow 50. This is a chambered unit. Haven't investigated the dynomax yet.
I was always told from members on here that the Dynomax Ultra Flo's are the best performing; not necessarily the "best sounding." But, I was interested in making this pig move so I went with the Ultra Flo's...
Quote from: myk on April 04, 2020, 02:47:43 AM
Quote from: green69rt on March 29, 2020, 02:15:03 PM
So, started shopping for a muffler. Usual choices. To thin the herd, I think I'll stick with Flowmaster or Dynomax. Chambered or straight thru? I really don't want a lot of noise when I drive into my driveway (neighbors) but some won't hurt(another of those wishy-washy specs :icon_smile_big: ). First look came up with the flowmaster delta flow 50. This is a chambered unit. Haven't investigated the dynomax yet.
I was always told from members on here that the Dynomax Ultra Flo's are the best performing; not necessarily the "best sounding." But, I was interested in making this pig move so I went with the Ultra Flo's...
"Best sounding" is 100% opinion. What i like, you may not, and the next and next. Its the joy of customizing your car. Its for you, not me. The ultraflos are a good choice for performance based soley on design being straight through vs chambered. But on a street car, you are splitting hairs if you shop 100% based on performance in a muffler. I always say, pick what you like the sound of, moreso then the advertised hp gains over another.
Finally went with MagnaFlow 12256 from Summit. I really won't know how I like them till the car is running.
Quote from: bee1971 on March 31, 2020, 12:20:42 PM
Quote from: BSB67 on February 03, 2020, 07:13:49 PM
Thanks for posting.
It looks like the valve train is going away at 4600 - 4700 rpm or so. The data look a bit unreliable after that. I don't think the little changes you were making between runs explains the large swings in performance from run to run. Did you guys actually do something to improve the valve train performance?
I bet graphing the data of all runs on one large graph would be telling.
What was your oil pressure, and what weight oil did you use?
Lifters I am guessing , and why advance the cam two more degrees when four is already built in
Way to low RPMs for those E Street Heads and that Camshaft
I have two friends that run that same setup on 383 Strokers , and make great power past 5500 On those same E Street Heads I installed and same camshaft
I know the original poster talked a lot about valve spring pressure later on , those same #5792 Valve Springs are used on most RPM heads also and have been good past 6,000 RPMs
Torque is awesome down low , but to drop off so much at 4700 RPMs Is not the norm
Anyways can't wait for him to get it on the street and see the progress
Beautiful Car :2thumbs:
You may be right but no way to tell until the car is running. There will be some sorting out to do. It would have been really expensive to put the engine back on the dyno and it can be sorted while in the car. Only thing missing will be matching dyno run documentation to show results.
Quote from: green69rt on April 05, 2020, 06:37:55 PM
Finally went with MagnaFlow 12256 from Summit. I really won't know how I like them till the car is running.
Nice choice. Will sound like the dynomax ultraflo- same basic design. With an h pipe, it will have a deep, angry muscle car sound to it, but not overwhelming volume.
I've been a slacker about getting stuff up. Been doing stuff just not telling anyone. ;D
Lots of little things needed to get the engine running again. Mostly around the front of the engine, belts and pullys.
The AC bracket that came with my Classic Air kit did not work at all for me so I spent some time on the phone with them and finally they sent my a different bracket and it all came together.
So I have the pulleys installed for the water pump, alt, AC and PS. Belts arrive Friday from Rockauto.
:2thumbs: Got springs for inside the feed pump hose? :scratchchin: I got mine from CJ's Mustang Supply
Quote from: b5blue on May 26, 2020, 05:14:09 PM
:2thumbs: Got springs for inside the feed pump hose? :scratchchin: I got mine from CJ's Mustang Supply
Took me a second to realize what you were talking about. Radiator hoses? As soon as the belts arrive and I get everything done, then get the new radiator and fans in. I think there will be little or no room to do stuff after they are in. The engine compartment is really getting full!
Your at that point where missing parts could slow you down. Keep at it! :2thumbs:
Quote from: b5blue on May 27, 2020, 09:44:52 AM
Your at that point where missing parts could slow you down. Keep at it! :2thumbs:
Exactly. Need exhaust tips to finish the exhaust. (Year One' vendor delaying shipment, I bet they come from China :eek2:.)
Need belts to finish the engine. (arrive Friday from Rock Auto, fingers crossed.)
Need door panels to finish the interior. (Legendary shut down till June 1)
I have been spending time doing details like hooking up temp sender, oil press sender, speedo, cleaning up routing of wires and hoses. Keep moving forward but seems like parts is a big roadblock.
Belts on. Time to start putting the radiator in and add some liquids!
:o IT RUNS !!! :yesnod: Mitch is one happy man after 13 years
https://youtu.be/u6vx6G_OTC8
SWEET!! :cheers:
Nice choice on the carb. I like the black/purple. Also neat take on the gauges. Modern amenities in a classic stockish style package. What are they?
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on June 09, 2020, 08:40:53 AM
Nice choice on the carb. I like the black/purple. Also neat take on the gauges. Modern amenities in a classic stockish style package. What are they?
The dash is Dakota Digital. All LED lights with electronic gauges. No dash wiring to worry about, everything wires to an ECU with one Cat5 cable to the instrument cluster. Amp meter is gone, volt meter replaced it. Gas gauge is now programmable. I can put any transmitter in the tank and then use a custom calibration so it reads correctly.
In Charlie's video, he commented that I had no tail pipes. The car sounded pretty loud without them. Probably the exhaust was causing some drumming under the car plus the muffler clamps were not tight so they rattled. All is fixed now, got my new tips from Y1 on Friday, installed them yesterday along with the tail pipes. Tightened everything up. Fired it up and sounds nice. Charlie will have to post another video to show how it sounds (I don't know how.)
So the car runs, but have some things to do. Need the vacuum to the brake booster, I rolled the car out of the garage to clean the garage and that was exciting. Lots of muscle to stop!
So....
Pic #1 tail pipes and tips installed
Pic #2 car setting outside (under its own power!) for the first time in 13 years.
Pic #3 the empty garage, seems a little strange to have this much room.
Hey nice tips! :2thumbs:
Looks and sounds good
Mitch, I didn't observe a lift within your garage so I'm assuming you installed the engine from the top with a cherry picker? How did that go with the newly-painted engine compartment? Was the transmission mounted to engine or bolted in place from underneath vehicle? Any specific precautions taken (like applying layers of masking tape to fenderwells/shock towers) to prevent scratching?
Thanks.
Quote from: Nickrc3 on July 17, 2020, 09:17:05 PM
Mitch, I didn't observe a lift within your garage so I'm assuming you installed the engine from the top with a cherry picker? How did that go with the newly-painted engine compartment? Was the transmission mounted to engine or bolted in place from underneath vehicle? Any specific precautions taken (like applying layers of masking tape to fenderwells/shock towers) to prevent scratching?
Thanks.
Yes, I put the engine in from the top using an engine hoist. I don't have the means or the roof height to go under, as some can. Order of installation.
1. roll the trans under the car ( I could get the car high enough to do this.)
2. lower the car (still high enough to get under and work ( tires on blocks about 12" high)
3. lift the engine over the front and then tilt it down at the back.
4. tape blankets over both fenders (took these off later because I could see I had plenty of room and they were blocking my view. But to prevent scratching and to help position the block, I used a lot of blocks of wood to hold the engine away from the firewall and fenders)
5. Lower the engine by very small amounts and move the blocks of wood around to keep everything in position and moving like I wanted. Check, check check.
6. When I could see that I was getting close to the point where I might be able to get the bell housing bolted up, stop.
7. Now start jacking the trans up in the front, I used my floor jack under some plywood squares so I didn't damage the trans pan. Support the tail shaft on a wooden cradle.
8. move the engine, move the trans, move the engine, move the trans. Over and over.
9 After about 30 or 40 minutes, I got it real close and tried to insert the dowls that line up the trans with the block.
10. At this point I was pushing things around with my hands and finally got the dowls in and some of the bolts started.
11. Kept jiggering things around till all bolts were started, I was able to start them all by hand, I did NOT want to strip anything.
12. Pull the bolts up snug but not torqued.
13. The engine/trans is now supported on the front by the engine hoist and by the trans at the tail piece with some boards that I had made into a little cradle.
14. Put the headers in and onto the head studs, don't bolt them up. (What I missed here is to install the starter AND the wiring to the starter. Caught it before I went to far but it was a close thing.)
15. Lower block onto motor mounts (You may want to test fit the motor mounts to the block before you lower the block because I had a bugger of a time getting some of the bolts to clear the headers.)
16. Bolt up the mounts and transmission mount. ( test this before you start the engine install as bolt holes may need a little opening up.
17. Bolt up exhaust.
This is probably more than you wanted to know but it's pretty hot in Houston and I procrastinating on going outside to work on the car.
Cheers,
Mitch
Quote from: Nickrc3 on July 17, 2020, 09:17:05 PM
Mitch, I didn't observe a lift within your garage so I'm assuming you installed the engine from the top with a cherry picker? How did that go with the newly-painted engine compartment? Was the transmission mounted to engine or bolted in place from underneath vehicle? Any specific precautions taken (like applying layers of masking tape to fenderwells/shock towers) to prevent scratching?
Thanks.
Forgot to say that I have a automatic so no worry about lining up a trans input shaft to the crank or flywheel.
Been hot in Houston so work going slow. But I have needed to roll the car in and out of the garage. One time when I was backing out, I goosed the gas a little too much. Car didn't move more that 12" but broke the tires loose so easy, I was amazed. I went back into the garage after parking outside. This is what I found (took this picture later, just for fun!)
How many folks have burnout marks INSIDE their garage!
:icon_smile_big:
:cheers: