DodgeCharger.com Forum

I've been doing 68 to 70 cluster restos for several years now and was thinking I'd start a thread showing the processess I go through on a typical cluster for those wishing to take on thier cluster.  There will be many tips and sources to make the job easier.  This will occur over several posts and I'll try to get as many pics involved as possible. If there is anything in particular you would like to see or know feel free to ask.
I have koi 'fish' as well and was once told you become an expert at rasing koi once you've killed a couple hundred.  Well that applies here as well and have words of wisdom for things I have done that did not work and parts I have ruined.
Disclaimer..........  I do not claim to be an expert at anything. There are lots of others that do these clusters that utilize  different methods and products than seen in this thread. This is mearly my way.

Below is pictured your basic 40 year old cluster that will be restored.
1. First step will be to completely disassemble the cluster.  Remove the bezel, switches, lens, gauges and cicuit board.
Now you should be staring at a cluster housing that still has the 5 small blue lenses for backlighting and the red brake lens.
Note!!!  Now is the time to decide how you are going to proceed with your bezels and switches. If you are going with repop bezels and just polishing your switches then your OK. If you desire to rechrome your original bezels and or switch rockers then they must be sent out immediately. It will take a month or two till you see them back. Also the repop bezels do not match originals so you cannot mix and match. The 68s are close enough to pass for most but the grain on the 69/70 is way off and will be noticable between the radio bezel and cluster. So all of one or the other.
2.Next step is optional  depending on how  important the appearance of the cluster housing is but if you want to repaint the housing then we must remove those lenses. I suppose one could mask them off if desired.
3. I use a  propane style solder iron with a blow tourch attachment but have also used a regular solder tip for the lens removal. Once the tip is hot place it against the tabs that hold the lens to the frame and at the same time applly light pressure with a pencil erasure tip or similiar to push the lens out. You want to do this slowly to allow the hole to reform the stud as its pulled through.
Note. If the tab breaks off keep it. It can be used to fuse the lens back on latter.
4. Now I clean the housing with soap and water then spray an etch brightner on the housing. The housing is pot metal but the aluminium etch will dramatically improve the finish on the housing.
The product I use is Alumiprep but any aluminium etch will work.  Its phosphoric acid based but is very different than Oshpo type produst for rust.  At paint stores it will be etch for prepping aluminium for paint. Its also sold in hardware stores as cleaner for air conditioning unit coils.
It only goes on for about 45 seconds then rinsed with water.  You can watch it work.
5. Housing is now ready for paint!  I use flat white for the housing.
6. Once dry you can begin the housing reassembly.

TO Be Continued>>>>>>>>>>>

Seeing all those clusters together like that kind of brought a little tear to my eye lilwendal.  ;)

Time to reinstall the lenses. Basically a reverse order of removal.  Place the lens in position and heat the tab till it begins to melt. At the same time push the lens into its correct position. If your tab broke off before... now you can place it into the hole were the tab should have been and melt it back together with its original lens.  I have a damaged lens I use just for breaking off small pieces to weld others tabs.

I should take the time now to talk about ordering your decals.  I only use Performance Car Graphics. Dave and Beth have been in the Mopar decal business for over twenty years and you well not find more knowledgeable, friendly or professional folks for all your decal needs.  They are the providers for my lenses and decals.  You will need the BRAKE SYSTEM decal for your red lens and the green turn lenses with gaskets.

Before installing the red lens it must be cleaned of all old glue and lettering. Mineral spirits and 600 sand paper will do the trick.
I'm not going to go into the details of decal installation because you will receive very detailed instructions from Performance with the lens decal order.
Almost forgot.... There is a difference between 68 and 69/70 cluster housings so if you picked up a used unit make sure its correct for your ride.
I will add pics but the difference is where the medalion goes for 68 There is not a stand off there on the 68 housing so the medalion will clear. You will  not be able to install the medalion with a 68 bezel on a 69/70 housing.  You can modify one for the other very easily. Just grind down the stand off if you have a 69/70 for your 68. If you have a 68 for your 69/70 it will work fine but the screw head will not be even with the others and be recessed a 1/2 inch into the cluster. The fix is to add washers till you get an even height on your screws.  Hopefully you can see it in the pics.  The one on the left is 68 style and the right 69/70

One last paint item thats often left out but needs to be done.  You must paint black the area around each screw post that attaches the cluster to the dash otherwise you get a nice white ring visable when installed and its very annoying to see.  One of the clusters below shows the black around the holes.

To Be Continued.........

On to the gauges......
The speedo and clock or clock/tach really must be repainted in order to look right with decals.  The speedo decals do not go all the way into the odometer area and the clock decal  does not go to the edge on the second dial. So what that gives you if you do not repaint is a noticable difference that can be seen were the decals end.  Also the decals are not as flat black as original and have a slight sheen to them.
If the face is just faded you can mask off the odometer slot and high beam hole, Place a straw over the needle shaft and give the face a scuffing with 600 grit.  The surface must be perfectly smooth. If you can feel it with your fingers it will show through the decal.  If the face has any surface rust then it nust come off and be bead blasted. Two small brass rivits hold it in place. They are tubular rivits that are availabel fom Hanson Rivit at http://www.hansonrivet.com/index.php4 but honestly I use brass solid AN aircraft rivits there.  The area is not seen when the bezel is install so really any rivit will do. Once off blast,prime and paint.
What I use is Krylon Semi Flat Black. Its not quite satin but not flat either.  It seems to match the decals perfectly. Heres a close up of the face painted and decal installed.  Even up close it is very difficult to see where the decal ends. Even less with the lens installed. Look at a cluster that did not have the face painted and you will see a noticable change in colors.
STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Almost forgot again. Should not drink and post... VERIFY alll gauges,clocks,speedo work prior to anything.  Ask me why I would spend all that time on a speedo with a sheared needle bushing thats not fixable?????  Thats what makes me an expert. Its stilll sitting on the shelf.
And that speedo needle bushing... You must hold the magnetic wheel behind the face when you twist and pull the needle off or there is a very good chance of snapping the needle bushing that holds the return spring.  Break that and your looking for a new speedo.
The odometer is also a very touchy beast. The little tabs that hold the wheel align break very easily so take care. Next post will be odometer then clock.
The needle is just masked and shot with flat white.

OK. Odometer and clock. Depending on how many more drinks the little misses brings me will determine how far I get tonight but want to take it start to finish on a cluster. :cheers:
The odometer can be tricky and there are two styles.  70 is different than 68/69 actually the speedo is too but they are interchangable to all years but a 70 odometer must stay with a 70 speedo. Did  that make sense??? I do not have a 70 speedo out of a cluster right now but you can see the difference in the odometer wheels the one on the left is 68/69 and the right 70.  Also is a close up of the wheel alignment tabs that are very delicate and extreme care must be used during removal and installation.  So heres my choice on odometer decals.
www.performancecargraphics.com  I cant get Dave to sell me the decals but send him your odometer and he will reface it for 20.00.  His turn around on them is very quick as well.
To reset to zero or any other # combo... Just hold the far left tab and rotate all other wheels down till you get to zero.  Then move to the next tab now holding the previous one as well. Rotate down till that # gets to zero. Continue down the pike holding all the previously set wheels whle spinnning the next.  Once your there just do a final allignent of the tabs and reinstall. Engage the gear end first then slide into the slot. Snap on clip. Don't forget to apply a light grease to the odometer gear.
Clock.  Opening up the clock is not too difficult. There are bent tabs to remove the face so that they can be repainted. To get the clock internals out.. Three mild bends are made to the housing to hold it in.  Personally I convert all clocks to quartz.  Most originals I can get working with contact cleaner and light lube but they seem to always run fast or slow ove ra coupe days so for 50.00 bucks just swap it out.
More of my top secret source info ;D........There is only one place that makes the clock movements. If you buy one from anyone else for 75.00 your paying a mark up.  Get the clock from Instrument Services Inc.  1-800-558-2674  for 52.00 They have a web site but cant find the link right now.  They are also the only source for the set stem shafts thta are often broken at the adjuster knob end.  I willl not go into the details of the clock switch.  There are instructions included with the quartz unit.  For regular clock PN N-3085 and Tic Toc Tach  PN S-3015
the standard clock is easy. The tach clock has some soldering invoved but still doable for those with some soldering experience.
If you need to replace your set stem dont bother with the tool they sell for that. Just PM me and I'll walk you through it. No special tools required.
When reinstalling the speedo needle again be sure to hold the wheel on the oposite side to protect the needle bushing.
The Tach.  This goes 50/50. If I test the tach and its reading acuarately then I will not automatically convert it.  I'll leave that to the customer.
The source here is Real Time Engineering. 479-756-2757. They have a web site as well.  Also include is very detailed installation instructions but be sure you are confident with soldering,wiring and schematics before you dive  in.
Conitued to ..........Be

Time for the small gauges...
Again first check them to be sure they are functional. If you like you can use the old 9 volt check to see if they move but they are a 5 volt gauge  so be carefull to only see if the gauge begins to move then pull power.
Do Not waste time calibrating the gauge now.  It needs to be accomplished after the reface.
The reface is pretty straight forward with the decal instructions. If the face has any rust at all it will have to come off to be media blated.  The decals will not work over sanded down rust.  Removing the face is the same as the speedo with the same rivits. The face can be slid off the body without disturbing the needle but if you have the hands of a surgeon and a small pair of jewelers needle nose you can remove the needle. The needle is not physically attached to anything just bound between the two arms. Hopefully the pics below will explain more.
Theres only one reason I've ever seen a small gauge not work and that was it recieved sustained voltage above 5 volts that cooked thermal wire around the bimetalic strip. Cannot be econmically repaired. Easier to find another Ebay gauge.
One other possible problem to look for is because of the wires nature it is not soldered but glued to the top sof the posts. I have seen the glue fail and a simple reattachment of this wire with super glue will reactivate the gauge. Hopefully the pics will show this wire.
Once refaced they can be callibrated. 
Heres the easily made test box I use with the needed 73 ohms for low, 23 for mid, and 10 for high.
Radio shack has all the needed supplies to build such a box.  PN 271-1101 for 10ohm, 271-1103 for 23 ohm, 271-1109 for 150 ohm that you will need two of to place in parallel to obtain your 75 ohms.
When testing be sure to use a power supply that produces 5 volts or run your 12 volt source through the voltage regulator but you MUST verify that your voltage regulator is producing no more than 5 volts or  risk damaging your gauges.
One note on voltage regulators. I use to do the solid  state conversion to the  regulators but the new regulator Real Time Engineering is offering for 50.00 cannot be beat. Truly state of the art piece.

Either my space bar is sticking or its time to stop drinking.  Alright everyone getting late but you can see above the serated teeth on the gauge arms that are used for calibration.
Thats how we get the gauges in tune but I'll cover that tomorrow as well as the circuit board, switches, lens, bezel and final testing.

That is some great work!

Wow.  nice thread!

 :scope:          you doing some awesome work there (lilwendle)  , intresting thread ! thanks for posting  :2thumbs:

 :bow: Mike!  Thanks for taking the time to do this and to the little misses for not letting the well go dry.  Gives me some ambition & some insight to tackle my stack.

Great thread, Mike. I think I can say with a certain amount of accuracy that I will not be "trying this at home" because, well, I just don't want to. :icon_smile_cool:

When you can see the labor involved, it also makes you appreciate why this work can't be done in an afternoon for $50.

lilwendal, You are my hero! This is exactly where I am in my restoration and this is invaluable to me. This Bud's for you, Sir!  :cheers:

do you accept work? PM Sent

Everyone thanks for the complements.  I was doing family stuff today and was called into work tonight and probably tomorrow so I'm not sure if I can finish the thread today but I will in the next day or so.  I've taken a bunch of additional photos that will help.

lilwendal--------it's awfully nice of you to share this information.  I have my 69 Charger cluster to do and am looking forward to your final installments.  I just have to say that the members of this forum are some of the nicest folks I have corresponded with. 

Thanks for posting already bookmarked it for future reference (which is hopefully soon)

Ok lets see how far we get. Back to gauges. You noticed in the last round of pictures the serated teeth on the arms.  Thats how the gauges can be adjusted as needed. For those not wishing to build a test box a simple set of jumpers with the resistors in line will suffice as well.  Different colors for each resistance value will keep things straight.
Once you have all testing gear available heres the process. But first an expanation of how the gauge works for better understanding of what you are doing.  Refer to the pic with the gauge face off.  The gauge has a bimettalic strip that distorts when heated. What heats this strip is a thermal wire wrapped around the bimetallic strip. As the voltage and or resistance changes through this wire the bimetallic strip diflects in proportion.  Only one arm has the bimetallic strip and the other is just the hinge point for the needle. both the bimettalic strip arm and the opposing arm can be adjusted to position the needle.On the back of the gauge you see two small holes and the teeth. One upper hole and one lower. The lower hole adjusts the lower range and the upper hole the high range. Keep in mind adjusting one arm effects the other so it is a back and forth process to you achieve the desired values.
This is most important...... You must verify your source is 5 volts DC.  I use a dedicated power supply for my adjustments but using the original voltage regulator is acceptable but you must verify its output! Next post I will show the problems that voltage can create.
Heres the wiring.  5 volts to one side of your gauge and the other to the resitor box or jumper.  The other end of the jumper to the 5 volt source ground.
Begin with the low value of 75 ohms.  I like to insure the needle is a little under the empty line but remember these gauges are not state of the art by any means and even factory values permitted variances of an 1/8 inch. For the 25 setting its the middle of the gauge. 1/2 tank fuel, 180-190 temp and about 35psi oil.   The 10 value is gauge max. A little above full for fuel. Just above 80 for oil. Just above 250 for temp.
If the cluster I'm doing is going on my car what I do is use mechanical gauges in the engine bay to get more percise values and then transfer those readings to the dash gauges although thats not practicle to all.
These gauges move very slowly and must be given sufficiant time to stabilize each time an adjustment is made or the resistance value changed.
One other note... Be sure the needle is not dragging the gauge face as this will effect its reading.  Be very careful with the needle though..It does not take much to change its position.
The fuel gauge below shows it will need some minor tweeking to get into correct range.  Its seen at  the 25 and 10 setting.

The next topic is voltage.  Notice in the two pics of the oil pres gauge at the 25 ohm setting.  See the volt meter right side? First pic shows the gauge with a voltage of 5.12 coming in and look at the gauge needle.  If I drop the voltage down to 4.60 look at the oil gauge. 10 PSI difference when the voltage is off by .5 volts.  This is why its important to verify your supply voltage before bothering to adjust the gauges.
Just something else to keep in mind.  If you think that 6 volt lattern style battery is close enough to 5 volts your wrong.
Fuel gauges are notoriously blammed for problems when the sender, the wiring from the sender or most likely the famous ground strap to the sender are usually to blame.  Do not assume the repop fuel sending unit you have is calibrated correctly chances are it is not.

Next the circuit board.  This one item is the cause of most all gauges not working .  If you have a gauge inop and have narrowed it down to the cluster theres a 90% propability its from this board. Poor contact between the gauge retaining nut to the board and or loose / broken terminal pins. They also suffer from damaged terminal strips.
For the board you have removed from your cluster the first order is to clean it for inspection.  Here again I use the same etch I used on the housing that will clean all corrsion from the exposed copper but not harm the board or its nonconductive coating.  Below are a before and after shot of two used boards.  Once clean you can see any obvious cracks to the circuit strip or loose/missing pins.
Assuming there is nothing obvious its time to check the board for continuity.  You will check each pin to its farthest circuit point away on the board.  Also check the voltage regulator inserts as well.  Lastly the back lighting bulb sections to their grounding points where the screws mount.
This is  where I usually find problems even with a board that appears intact and here why.  The 5 pins that your harness connects to are not soldered to the board but mearly crimped onto the board. After 40 years and with the cars and clusters not kept in ideal conditions corrsion begins to form between the pin and the board. Unfortunately the only way to completely remove that corrosion is to remove the pin and clean it then solder the pin back in.  The etch will help with removing the corrosion but not between the pin and board.  Next problem with this is if you do not remove the pin you cannot solder a dirty joint so if you do try to improve the connection with solder it will only be to the outside of the pin to the board. This will work but does not get rid of the initial cause of the poor conection between the board and pin.
The pin tabs can be carefull bent back up then the pin wiggled out.  Clean the pin and board where the pin attaches and apply a light application of flux to the board at the pin site.  Reinstall pin. Bend down tabs. Heres my tool for recrimping the pins.  Its actually a 5/32 roll pin punch but the diameter of the ball tip fit perfectly into the back of the pin.  This keeps the tabs spread will they are crimped down. Back up the front of the pin on a table and  a couple LITE taps will reseat the crimp. This will also tighten most loose pins as well that have good connectin but are just a little loose. Now apply solder to the joint.  It will be sucked into the area between the pin and board making for a stronger sealed connection.  Don't be too worried if you find or you break the tabs on the pin.  Once cleaned and soldered you will be OK but you must add solder to the back side as well to help keep the pin with the board.
I know that seems like a lot of trouble so lets hope you have a good board with tight pins that ohm out good.
I have not been able to find a vendor for the board pins so if anyone does and would like to share info that would be great.
If you are missing a pin there are other options for replacing them.  One is to install small -4 screws from the back of the board.  I've not had to utilize this method but do a search for circuit board repair and I believe another member has posted the process.

Last note on the board. You can buy the backlighting bulb housings at any of the auto parts store electrical area.  Several different vendors sell them. 2 bucks for a package of two.

That wraps tonight.  I'll move into switches tomorrow.  Including the how to for removing the charger style headlight switch rocker for replating.

I am busy with a complete restoration of my R/T -68 and when I came to the instrumentcluster in my projectplanning
and found out about Mikes work I was really sold. The cluster is giving the total impression of the quality of your
restoration looking in to the car and I didn't felt to risk having a "not perfect" one so I purchased one from Mike.
One of the best damn purchases I have done for my project! Thanks again Mike  :2thumbs:

:2thumbs:

Thanks Per and Eldon.  Glad your happy with your clusters.   I did not intent this to be an advertisement.  I've learned many  things the last couple years from this board and wanted to return the favor by providing some insite to the sources and processes on the clusters.
My intent is to provide those who do wish to tackle their clusters the info I have.  Again not that my methods are better than anothers but I'm showing the procedure to produce a good looking functional cluster.  I hope the thread is usefull :Twocents:
Now back to the fun :icon_smile_big:
I'm going into switches.  Generally all the rocker style dash switches are the simplist of design internally.  The rocker pivots an arm which in turn slides a plastic block with spring loaded contacts.  Depending on switch position these contacts mate with the contacts on the bakolite insulator that your harness conector attaches to.  See pic below of desassembled headlight switch.  I'm not going to go into testing all the switches.  Its a switch.... continuity in one position and none in another.  You will need a schematic to show what terminals you should see continuity in various positions and they are avalable on most of the Mopar sites.  http://www.mymopar.com/tools.htm
These rocker style switches are very reliable and its unusual to find them bad.  If they are a cleaning of the contacts inside will almost always fix the problem. If you do find the need to open one for cleaning the contact be carefull not to pry sideways with a screw driver on the back bakolite.  Its very brittle and easily breaks.  My tool of choice is cheap.  Free from any hardware store its a paint can opener thats been slightly filed down on the sides to just fit the slot for the switch back tab.  See pic.
Occasionally the headlight switch can give troubles.  If you have a car were the headlights come on for 30 seconds or so then go off for about 30 seconds then back on...Its the thermal switch in the headlight switch. You can see it in the pic of the open headlight switch left side. Its there to shut of the current to the headlight switch if the draw becomes to great. Gets hot..Opens...Lights go off....Cools...Closes... Lights go on. Over and over again.
At that point time to verify if the cars wiring is causing the thermal trip or if the switch is tripping early.  I've only seen this a few times.
Once they have been overheated from a previous short they are prone to trip early.

OMG!!!!!!!!! i've died & went to mopar cluster heaven!!!!!!
great job bro!!!!!!!!! thanks!!!!!!!! i'm in the middle of re-doing my 68 cluster... but really only the front bezel..as i've got brand new autometer gauges i'm poping in....
i'll finish it one of these days!!! hahahaha i was 99.99999999% done spraying it.... BUT NOOOOOOO  :brickwall: i had to give it a lil shot up close to try & build up a light area... and i sprayed it too close & that spot  got all shiney!!! sojust as wendal said... "you become an koi fish expert after you kill a couple hundred koi fish"!!! LOL (that's an awesome line!!!)
soooo back to the drawing board...with my can of easy off in hand...i'll start all over!!! hahahaha
:cheers:

Headlight switch rocker....WARNING  Most will look at this and say no way.  Dont look at the pics till you read this!!!I've explored many ways to try to get the rocker switch off for replating on the Charger style headlight switches.  They do not repop them.  If you find a decent original it can usually be buffed out nicely.  Problem is most are flaking,pealing, have worn chrome or bubbling chrome.  I dont know if the pic below shows the surface conditon but heres a functional switch in below average driver condition.  Spots of missing chrome and heavy bubbling.  Not usable for a reto cluster.
All the other rocker switches have a roll pin or tension pin that slides in from either side with openings on both sides.  No problem just use a small punch and lightly tap the roll pin out and send to the replaters.  Unforunately with the vacuum arm on the charger style switch the factory installed a tension pin that went in and does not have a way through or back out. So how do you get the rocker off for replating :shruggy:
I'll add this.  I've never had one break.  I have 4 at the replaters now and the 6 or so before those came back beautifull.
Here we go. You need only two # 48 drill bit or smaller.  Thats smaller diameter not smaller #.  A drill and a hammer.  Oh and a work bench with vice.  Mount the switch in the vice with the vacuum arm up. Now you are going to drill down the length of the arm towards the tension pin.  Be sure you have not been drinking before attempting this. The plastic drills like butter so very light pressure and very slow speed.  Continually check your angle by looking at all sides as you drill.  Stay straight!!!You will know when you hit the pin.  The drill will stop digging. Pull the drill bit out.  Use your other drill bit as a punch.
Hold the shaft of the vacuum arm and apply a very light tap to the bit and the tension pin will start to protrude from the rocker. Pull your bit out then grab the tension pin with some pliers and pull. Viola!  The pin is not very tight in the rocker.
Now you have a small #48 hole in the shaft. The first ones I had replated just like that and the chrome covered the holes but since I've been injecting epoxy into the drill hole for added strength.  Small syringe with big tip from any Walgreens or your local drugy.  Fill with a flowable resign style epoxy and inject into the cavity. Once its seen coming out the other end apply some tape to the hole to keep it in while it sets.  Once set, sand the excess epoxy and off to the platers.  15.00  later you have a perfect rechromed charger style rocker.
I know most are thinking this is a dont try at home kinda thing but it actually works out very good.

Too Easy!!!!!  Right!!!!!

paging DR WENDAL.... paging DR WENDAL...
you have cluster waiting for you in operating room #6!!!  :yesnod:
sweeeeet stufff!!! :cheers:

Damn this is taking alot longer than I expected. :P  I'll get the dimmer wheel tomorrow.  Most all dimmers I get do not work. They all get a full rebuild and I'll dive into that then.

 :notworthy: is all I can say.

Slow at work tonight so I'll add a little more.
Replating Versus Repop....... Pros and Cons
I'm going to disclose my trials with the various replaters I've used and also the repop bezels that are available. I also know the shops that do there own replating and those that advertise they do but actually ship the work out.
I will not name my replaters because  I still do buisness with three different replating operations but the results are always mixed.  One batch will be just beautifull then the next batch I have to return again for replating.  I've done a bit of research on the vacuum replating process and there are a lot of variables that can effect the final finish. I'm trying yet another now and am awaiting the bezels to return.  After having over 20 of these bezels replated at various places I still get mixed results.  Maybe I'm too picky about the quality of the bezels and 40 year old plastic is just that.  The pros here are you have an original piece that has the correct grain for concourse type judging.  The cons.. finding a defect free piece let alone the entire dash set for replating.   risk of receiving a poor rechrome job. and time.
If you are going the route of replating send your stuff off soon.  It will take a couple months to get it back.
Repops... I believe several companies do these but I have only purchased fromPeter at  PG Classic.  I've gotten 2 or 3 of each year from them and compared to originals.  The repops are very nice and do not show the 40 year old age like an orignal. The grain for the 69/70 though is noticable different than original so if absolutely correct is a factor for your car then pass although I believe not many could tell the difference.
And as previosly mentined you cannot mix pieces originals with repops as the difference really shows between the panels when side by side.
So my recomendation with bezels is the repops.  If you already have a nice set of originals you will spend 350.00 to 400.00 getting them repaired and rechromed.  If you have to buy any pieces to make the set you are in even deeper.  The repop sets are not much more than that.  Plus if you did go that way you could sell your originals on Ebay to recoupe the cost of the repops. Next pro..One call and you have them a few days later.  No two month wait.
Honestly My last two cars I used the PG bezel sets.  Only because it seems I am always one piece shy of a original full dash set for a car.
69 radio bezels if you got one I'll take it.  Yes! use the repops and sell me your original 69 radio bezel :yesnod: LOL
But in closing when I look at the two side by side and add all the factors in my OPINION the repop makes more sense.

Lilwendal...... you rock and bigtime.

I'm into restoring my cluster in one of the upcoming months and i can say the calibration stuff is really great and so far I can't come up with a question i haven't found an answer to here...

I recieved a batch of rechromed switch rockers today and just wanted to show the difference it makes.   If your switch's finish is sound then usually a good polish does wonders but for around 15.00 per rocker or wheel...75.00 will get all nice shinny blemish free switches for your cluster.
The pic of the charger headlight switch is the one from last night now with a rechromed rocker installed.
One note on  this. The finish is noticably different from the  old originals and the fresh rechrome so its best to do all or none or you could possibly see the difference.  Specially with switches that are adjacent to each other.  The only exception is the thumb wheel for the dimmer.  I always reinstall a rechromed in all the clusters because they are rarely in decent shape but due to the knurls in the wheel you don't notice any difference with other switches polished or rechromed.

Still killing koi......Remember to install the chrger style rocker switch with the arm on the correct side of the switch. :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwal

And the dimmer switch.  What a joke of a design that thing is.  Most I get are inop.
I'll give a quick rundown of its operation. There are two designs for the dimmer.  The earlier inclosed and the 70 and later style.  I'm not sure if the books list one as rallye dash and the other standard but all the specs are the same for the two. On the back you will notice three terminals lettered I , R, and D.  Heres a easy way to remember whats what.  Think of D for Dome.  This terminal is a ground for your dome light.  When the wheel is rolled to its upper detent this terminal is grounded through the switch body. I is input. Your 12 volts coming into the dimmer.
R for resistance.  This is the contact that rides across the resitor coil and is the output to the bulbs.
The resistance coil has a value of 20 ohms so with the wheel at full bright the R terminal contact is on top the I terminal contact resulting in 0 ohms full 12 volts to your dash lights. As you roll the wheel down you increase the resistance there by dropping the voltage as you continue to roll the wheel down  The full dim position is 20 ohms.
Below is a pic of a completly disassembled dimmer.  Notice that the resistance coil has come free from the porcelin wheel.  Very common and any nonconductive epoxy will do fine to reattach it once clean. Just keep the coil surface even.
Several reasons why these do not work and its usually a combination of them.  First thing you can try is a good douching with contact cleaner folowed up by a light lube like WD40.  You might get lucky and find that it will work in spots.  Next thing to go for is the silver contact that rides against the coil off the R terminal.  Second pic top right the little silver square on the copper terminal . Fold a small piece of 400 paper and place it between the coil and contact and slide it back in forth in hopes of cleaning up that contact.  So far your dimmer is still intact.
Here is where most of the problems are though.  The resistance coils input end is the copper disc you see on the porcelin wheel. It is crimped onto the resistance coil.  No solder just pinched on.  Same story as the crimped circuit boards corrision builds over time specially with an open switch design and you loose the connection between the two.  If the coil is loose from the wheel as seen in the pic you can clean it like crazy with etch and contact cleaner then give it a light recrimping.  This will get continuity again.  If its still boded inthe wheel you can still clean like crazy then there is still enough room to crimp it a little.  You can try a bit of solder across the wire and the crimped contact but due to the nature of the wire it conducts the heat away too rapid to ge a good solder.  The last thing and is fatal for the switch is if the coil is broke.  I find this more on the later models but as mentioned you cannot solder this coil. No other way of linking the coil will work either because the I contact still needs to be able to ride across it.
If your break is somewhere in the middle you can still use the switch it just will not go as dim as it was once capable.
If your switch works in full bright only then you have a coil issue.
Opening the body is as simple as drilling or grinding the head off the two rivits but be aware the rivits are not available to my knowledge and the dimmer will have to be reassembled with standard hardware.

Happy New Year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm just about finished with this just some notes on reassembly that can cause problems. If you had the can off the back off the tach be sure to use your ohmmeter to verify you do not have continuity between either stud and the case.
More importantly do the same with the amp gauge.  Very important!!!!!!! It doesn't really have anything to center the terminals well and I think we all know what happens if either terminal touches the case.  Once the gauge is installed I like to clip my meter on...One lead on the case one to a amp stud and wiggle the gauge to be sure its not close to touching. Switch studs and repeat.
Lots of chatter on the should or should not of bypassing the amp gauge but I always utilize the gauge in my cars.  Leaving it intact on a 40 year car with unknown factory wiring condition might not be wise but if you are restoring a car and are certain all your harnessess and the notorious bulkhead connector are new or sound with clean connections then it will not be a problem.  The problems with the amp gauge is when A. you add accesories and large alternator that overwelm the capacity of the barely minimium factory wiring system, or B. The wiring or its connections is deteriorated.  But enough of that topic.  Its a  :horse:

I've recieved a couple requests on the removal of the cluster from the car. So just a brief run down. Others that might have tips here post up!
A. Disconnect battery.
B. Check to see if you disconnected the battery.
C .Pull the radio bezel.  Not doing this is a sure way to loose the lower right corner of the cluster bezel.  Ever notice how many Ebay bezels for sale are missing that corner??
D.Next I like to slide under the dash and disonnect the speedo cable.  It gives more room for getting the cluster aft to disconnect the wiring.
E. Drop the steering column. You can just loosen the bolts to the end of thier travel and that will give enough room to get the cluster out but I prefer to get it completely down and out of the way.  You might also have to loosen the 4 bolts where the column passes through the firewall to get it to come down fully.
F.Now remove the 5 screws that hold the cluster to the dash. The ones visable through the bezel.  Now the only thing that has it is the wiring and the charger vacuum hoses.
G. I start from the left side of the cluster.  Pull it aft just enough to get a hand in there to disconnect the vacuum fitting from the headlight switch.  I often do this when I'm under the dash undoing the speedo cable but it depends on how well you 'fit' under there.  There is a small metal clip,often missing, that holds the rubber fitting on.
H. Now start disconnecting the wiring from that left side.  Each time you unplug a switch or light the cluster will come a little further out from the left side allowing your hand to go a little further right to unplug more. When you get to the terminal board be carefull.  Do not bend or wiggle the connector up and down.  This will weaken the already problematic pins. Do your best to pull it straight off. The last thing to go is the amp gauge wiring that is attached with two 3/8 nuts.
I. That should be it.
If you need to put power back on the car you can simply use a screw and nut to connect the amp wiring terminals.  Then wrap with electrical tape.  Now you can still use the electric and even start the car if desired. Of course you have no way to monitor engine conditions but I do this just to get a car to move around the garage.

The connectors for the switches are all idiot proof where they will only go on thier assocaited switch but it would be a good idea to mark the bulb socket.  That way your high beam indicator doesn't flash when you use your turn signal.

I do alot more cluster rebuilds then I installs so again if anyone has other ideas on the removal please post up for others.

Well thats a wrap.  Questions.... Feel free to ask and I'll help if I can.

Awesome...

The thumbwheel in your bottom pic, The rivot still looks like the original. Are these available? In the one pic it looks like you have a screw inplace of the rivot, Or are you drilling the rivot and threading the screw into it?

Tilar, Yes you got it. Alot of my pics are props that are not complete but heres some pics that will help.  The one you questioned about the original rivit. I reuse it.  Drill half way down ,tap, then install -6 screw.  You cannot just tighten the screw too tight or the wheel will bind.  A small drop of lock tight on the screw threads will insure it does not back out.  See pic

And for the other style dimmer it goes both ways.  Sometimes I will drill and tap the housing for -8 screws. Other times I go all the way through and install nuts.  Tapping the housing gives a cleaner look but the nuts are an easier route.  If tappping the housing....again apply lock tight to the thread to keep it from backing out. The pic below shows the original hardware and what I use going back together.

Amazing stuff there pal!  Really cool.   :2thumbs:

 :2thumbs:...got it bookmarked!

Thank you very much "lilwendal" for this link!.  :cheers://Tommy

Everything you have there looks so clean and spiffy. My cluster looks like it came out of a swamp. :P

Hey lilwendal--------you recommended buying the repop dash bezel and associated dash plastic pieces because of problems getting originals replated.  You said that the grain or what I would call surface pebbling on the 69's was not precisely like the original but very close.  Could you post a close up of a original 69 dash bezel and a repop 69 dash bezel.  I assume your repops are from BEA.  I'am real interested to see the actual difference.  Thanks.

Have you ever checked with Hanson Rivets to get the exact rivets?  I was told you could not replace the rivets on the grille, but after searching I discovered that Hanson has the correct rivets and tools to install.  I believe those are the same.  They are called tubular rivets and the tool and cup are around $40.00.  I paid around $6.00 for 100 rivets.  Just a thought.  Oh and mine is shipping tomorrow.  Hope you have it by Friday.  You will like the custom mods that were done on the HL switch.  The arm was broken so the rigged up some metal piece to make it work.  Do you have another HL switch?  If not I am in the market if anyone else does.  I have the vacuum portion just need a swith with an arm.

Chatt69... I'll get some pics tomorrow in the sun.  I'll show an 70 original rechromed and a 70 repop as close as possible.  I have a rechromed 70 radio bezel here right now but thats where it really shows when they are right up against each other...The joint between radio bezel and dash bezel or glove box bezel.
But again I think for most the difference would be tolerable but when your spending that kind money you want everything as perfect as possible.
My repops come from PG Classic but I believe they supply BEA.

Heres the pics showing the difference in grain.  I don't know how well it shows in the photo but it is a noticable grain difference with the repop grain being larger.  I can notice it from the drivers seat but further than that it starts to become unnoticable.The first pic is original bezel with original radio.
The next pic with the amp meter installed is the repop bezel with an original radio.

Yeah... Looking at the pics its hard to tell without them in your hands.  Anyways like I originally posted it would probably be fine for 90% of the guys that recieved them but just be aware there is a visible difference.

Gasoline....I've purchased the gauge rivits from Hansons before but the fastners for the dimmer are more like pins with a small tubular rivit to secure them.  1/2 inch head.... 1/4 inch body... with a 1/8 inch tubular rivt on the end.They can make them I'm sure but never researched the cost per unit to get them made. Also I'll be able to help with the charger switch.

Thanks for the pics lilwendal.  I do notice the difference but have to say that the repops look mighty good.  Might have to talk to Mike about a repop set.

Repops are very nice. Its what I've used in the last couple cars. The full set.

Mike,

In this picture that you posted, which happens to be the one I have... I took pics of this before I took it apart, but none of my pics show the correct assembly order.  :-\  Most of it is self explanatory but I'm not certain about the copper wave washer and the plastic bushing. I'm assuming that the plastic bushing goes between the outer housing and the center terminal on the end terminal piece and then goes into the center ceramic of the rheostat. but I don't remember if the copper wave washer goes between the gear and the housing or the gear and the ceramic rheostat.



(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37999.0;id=61507;image)

Quote from: Tilar on January 17, 2008, 05:42:51 PM
Mike,

In this picture that you posted, which happens to be the one I have... I took pics of this before I took it apart, but none of my pics show the correct assembly order.  :-\  Most of it is self explanatory but I'm not certain about the copper wave washer and the plastic bushing. I'm assuming that the plastic bushing goes between the outer housing and the center terminal on the end terminal piece and then goes into the center ceramic of the rheostat. but I don't remember if the copper wave washer goes between the gear and the housing or the gear and the ceramic rheostat.



(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37999.0;id=61507;image)

Yor correct with the white bushing.  It goes between the case and into the round copper extension of the terminal block.
The copper spring washer goes between the porcelain wheel and the grey gear.  It helps push the porcelain wheel on to the terminal contact.

Thanks! And some day I'll learn the difference between Ceramic and porcelain  :lol:

No need to.  You already were correct. :2thumbs: Porcelain is a ceramic.  I believe its just a higher grade. ;D

Well, I finally managed to get back to work on my dimmer switch. I had the same problem you mention about not having contact between the coil and the copper disc. I tried cleaning it but it ended up eratic at best, Sooo I took some #12 copper stranded wire and cut two single strands out of it approx 1/2 inch long. I interweaved about 1/4 inch of each one into the coil and folded the other half of each wire across the top. Then I folded the copper disc back over it and put it together. Works great!

On the rivots, I drilled them with a #50 bit and tapped them to 2-56 and then put it together using allen head set screws with washers. Using that small of a hole left the shoulder on the rivot. I ground that shoulder just down enough to get below the top of the hole, which allowed me to tighten up the screws all the way.

The wheel actually looks pretty good, but when I send in the rest of the switches I'll take it back apart and send it in with them, Just to be sure they all match.

Great job Lilwendel!  I was lazy and didn't want to under take this part of the resto.  I sent off a cluster with a cracked lens and a broken HL switch.  I got back a show quality dash that some day will look great in my car.  If I ever get it finished.  Fast turn around time and excellent work.  Thanks Mike for the great work.

may I ask who replates your rockers for $15 each? I got quoted $105 each to get them plated, would have been over $400 for all of them :o

Not sure who he uses, but I know these guys do it for around that price.

http://www.cvvacuumplaters.com/mopar.htm

I send all rockers, wheels, buttons, and medallions to CV.

Hey lilwendal------------I assume you remove the rockers, wheels, etc. from their respective swithes and mechanisms before you send them to cvvacuum platers and that they plate them and send them back.  I asked them about this in a e-mail in the past and they gave me some static about them having to remove the rockers.  I just want to make sure I understand that you are sending in just the plastic rocker part of the switch and wheel, etc.  And it cost's $15 each?  Are the buttons and wheels the same price?  I need to send all my stuff in to them to get plated is the reason I am asking.  Thanks and thanks for the great post you went to the trouble to provide us.  Not everyone wants to tackle the instrument panel but for those of us that do, your posts are very helpful.

Chatt,
Yes I send only what will be replated. I do not believe they will do the removals from the actual switches.
I used 15.00 as a refrence. There are some mild differences.  Usually the washer push button is 10.00 The 68 medallions can be 17.50.
But I believe I'm paying 15.00 for the rockers and wheels. Be advised I send several sets of switches a month to them. They currently have over 40 pieces of mine so maybe I'm getting a discount :shruggy: I have not checked thier web site pricing in a while.

OK.  Sounds good.  I'll probably be sending some wheels and rocker swithes  to them pretty soon.  Just wanted to clarify this issue in my mind.

Quote from: lilwendal on December 28, 2007, 10:42:21 PM
And that speedo needle bushing... You must hold the magnetic wheel behind the face when you twist and pull the needle off or there is a very good chance of snapping the needle bushing that holds the return spring.  Break that and your looking for a new speedo.

Thank you for sharing all this information! It really helps a lot. Well or should I say it would have helped if I had read it before!

I did it: broke the needle bushing. Now I wonder: What exactly does this thing do? Does it only hold the spring? I tried to fix it this way: Drilled two holes right next to the spring and attached the spring to the metal bracket with some thread:

(http://home.arcor.de/web-space/fixed.jpg)

But: It doesn't work.
I think I spinned the spring 180 degrees to much, giving the needle too much pressure. Do you think if I retry it with 180° less spin it would work? I don't understand how this speedo works anyway - man - you should have seen my face when that thing broke! Argh!

the rest looks very nice so far (the additional oil pressure gauge was my test-object):
(http://home.arcor.de/web-space/P1020985.JPG)

Thank you for any advice!

RDR838

The bushing serves 2 purposes. First to center and support the needle shaft.  Second to retain the return spring for the needle.
When it breaks the spring is permited to rotate and no longer returns the needle to the stop. 
If you can find a way to keep the spring from rotating then it should work. Yes there is a chance you have the spring wound too much causing additional tension.
I'm at work now but tomorrow I can post a pic of the correct position of the spring.

 Lilwendall can you do the gauge faces in white if wanted. I have a cluster I need done and I am not going concourse here. Also you mentioned the cluster for '68 is different. I got my cluster off ebay and no idea what year it is. It does have the wood grain if that says anything.
Thnx for the very informitive thread, learned alot I didn't know on how these things work!  :2thumbs: :2thumbs:

White is not a problem. The woodgrain is a 69/70 option but that does not mean the bezel was not swapped at one time either.
The thread talks about how to distinguish between the cluster housing differences from 68 and 69/70.
PM me if you need any further help.

Quote from: RDR838 on March 08, 2008, 11:00:44 AM
broke the needle bushing. Now I wonder: What exactly does this thing do? Does it only hold the spring? I tried to fix it this way: Drilled two holes right next to the spring and attached the spring to the metal bracket with some thread:

But: It doesn't work.

I think I spinned the spring 180 degrees to much, giving the needle too much pressure. Do you think if I retry it with 180° less spin it would work?

Okay, tried everything, there's no chance to repair it. I got a 'new' speedo from a friend. The odometer doesn't work in the new one, but that's better than no speedo  :scratchchin:

So to all of you trying to restore your speedo: Read the instructions well and hold the wheel (see picture) that's connected to the needle firmly, pressing it slightly towards the back of the speedo when taking off the needle by carefully turning it below '0' until it's loose! If you don't, the plastic bushing will break (like in the picture, in the circle)

Take care

RDR838

This is an unbelievable thread.  There is a ton of good information here.  I think I am actually going to tackle this project now.  I haven't read through it 100% but was there mention of replacing the bulbs with LED lighting?  This was something I was going to have Redline do.  Also I didn't see anything about calibrating the tach, is this something done easily?  My apologies if this was included and I missed it.  Thanks!  Matt

Never played with the LED stuff.
On the tach.... They are both adjustable. The RTE board more so than the original.
Below you see the RTE board on the left and the original on the right.  With the original the larger silver pot with the cross in the middle. A small screw driver can be used to make adjustments to the original tachs indication.
On the RTE board there are two adjustable pots that will tweek the indication at 1K and 4K. They also sell a calipration chip that removes the need to have the tach wired into a running vehicle.
On the original tach the adjustments need to be made with the back can off the tach. Then with a known good test tachometer you match the RPMs up while the vehicle is running.
This same method can be used onthe RTE board as well. Two small screws on the top of the grey pots.

Thanks again for the info, I am going to order the tach board and cal chip from RTE in the next couple of weeks.  Do you know the size of the rivets needed?  I am going to order from Hansons.  Thanks

Matt

Is this the instrument place you were referring to?  http://www.clocksandgauges.com/

This thread deserves a sticky. :yesnod:

I have enough extra parts (3pos rotary switch, resistors) to build a test box as described by lilwendal.  If anyone on here is going to do this and would like these parts let me know.  No charge....just pm me your name and shipping info. 

Is lilwnedal still around?  Did he ever get moved?

He is still here somewhere, he answered some gauge questions that I had last week.

Hey lilwendal-----------I called Mike Ross with BEA about availability of the dash knob kit for a 69 charger.  It's supposed to be kit # 143CH-PLKIT.  He said they are having a problem nailing down which dimmer wheel is correct.  He said it appears that some chargers had a dimmer wheel (the chromed wheel you rotate to dim the interior lights) that had gear teeth all the way around and some had gear teeth that only go half way around.  Also said that the metal enclosure is different for each of these.  With your wealth of experience, could you enlighten us as to what was correct on these.  I assume that 68 and 69 would have been the same.  I realize the you can send these items off to be rechromed but sometimes they are too far gone and you need to buy new ones.  If we can help Mike out, he can get this kit nailed down and make it available to those of us that need new items for the dimmer wheel, rocker switches, and the pushbutton switch for the washer.  Thanks.

I went out to the garage today and looked at two of these dimmer assemblys and both had the gear teeth all the way around on the little chromed dimmer knob.  The ones I have came out of junkyard 68/69 B-bodies.  I hope to rebuild them as spares for my projects.

My 68 has the teeth only going half way around.

Maybe 68's use the 1/2 gear and 69's use the full gear.  I doubt it though.  I bet it was dependent on who supplied the dimmer.  They probably sourced them from two different places.  And it would be random as to which you ended up with. 

I talked to Mike Ross today.  He said a couple more months on the dash knob kit for the Charger.  I think it's something to do with the headlight rocker.

Quote from: runningman on January 29, 2009, 07:26:30 PM
I have enough extra parts (3pos rotary switch, resistors) to build a test box as described by lilwendal.  If anyone on here is going to do this and would like these parts let me know.  No charge....just pm me your name and shipping info. 

I still have these if anyone is interested...

Parts are spoken for........

Quote from: gasoline_24 on January 29, 2009, 09:26:17 PM
Is lilwnedal still around?  Did he ever get moved?

Still around...Just busy as hell.  Have 11 clusters B body clusters here for clients.
Desided not to transfer. Took an early retirement package they offered and they are keeping me on till end of 09.
After that....Going to take a stab at doing cars full time.  We'll see :popcrn:

Quote from: Chatt69chgr on February 02, 2009, 06:22:50 PM
Maybe 68's use the 1/2 gear and 69's use the full gear.  I doubt it though.  I bet it was dependent on who supplied the dimmer.  They probably sourced them from two different places.  And it would be random as to which you ended up with. 

I talked to Mike Ross today.  He said a couple more months on the dash knob kit for the Charger.  I think it's something to do with the headlight rocker.

I taked with Mike earlier in the week and brought him up to speed on the switches.
Two different style dimmers using different wheels.  They are not interchangable.
Earlier dimmers are the enclosed style using a pie shaped teeth arrangement while the later open dimmers use a wheel with full teeth pattern.  See pic below.
All 68s and 69's will have the enclosed.  Some very late 69s could have seen the open.  These dimmers are not very reliable so the chances that an original enclosed style dimmer was swapped for the replacement open style.
The switch rocker kits currently offered by PG on Ebay include the wheel for the enclosed/early style dimmer.
The bigger issue with those kits currently avaiable is the flasher for 68/69.  The PG Classic kits come with a washer push button. An early dimmer wheel and 3 pin mount rockers.  Problem is the flasher is a spade mount.  You end up with a switch set that has one extra rocker but no correct rocker for the flasher.  Unfortunate.
I've sent Mike a correct flasher rocker and switch so he can get everything 100% before he offers them.
Just to add...These new switch rockers coming out are chromed like factory with the triple plate true chrome.  Not vacuumized. The look and feel very nice and once these issues with application are resolved will be another excellent reproduction part available to us.

Does Mike ever do anything that is not NICE or CORRECT?  Mike is da man! :2thumbs: :yesnod:

lilwendal, what do you use for a voltage regulator? Factory or new solid state? Any pics and/or schematics?

Thanks


Steve

Hey lilwendal---------thanks for calling Mike and getting him up to speed on the correct dash knobs, rockers, wheels.  Lots of us need these items.  I've been waiting for a while for these to be made available.  I'll give Mike a call in a couple of months and order my set. 

can a sweep cluster out of a 69 plymouth be changed out to a rally cluster I was told that the two use different dashes

Lilwendal, where are you located and/or are you going to be at any Mopar shows this year?  I need to buy you a beer!   :cheers:  THANK YOU SO MUCH for sharing all of this!   :2thumbs:

Mark

Quote from: BLUE68RT4ME on March 26, 2009, 03:01:05 PM
Lilwendal, where are you located and/or are you going to be at any Mopar shows this year?  I need to buy you a beer!   :cheers:  THANK YOU SO MUCH for sharing all of this!   :2thumbs:

Mark

He be in Florida.

Do you have any clusters for a 1968 dodge charger and if so how much do you want for one???????

Quote from: quapman on February 06, 2009, 08:01:27 PM
lilwendal, what do you use for a voltage regulator? Factory or new solid state? Any pics and/or schematics?

Thanks


Steve

Unless the customer requests the newer style voltage regulator I just verify the output of the original points VR sent.  I do recommend the newer VRs.   For 40.00 takes the worry out of tho old style points sticking and possibly harming the gauges.

Quote from: 69satelite on March 26, 2009, 02:29:03 PM
can a sweep cluster out of a 69 plymouth be changed out to a rally cluster I was told that the two use different dashes

Dash frames are different and not sure if you can modifiy it for the rallye cluster.  Looking at them I would think not.

Quote from: darkfiire5000 on March 29, 2009, 11:05:54 AM
Do you have any clusters for a 1968 dodge charger and if so how much do you want for one???????

PM me with your needs.  Do you have a cluster you need restored??? Are you looking for a decent driver cluster or a fully restored unit???? I should be able to help.

Hey I got your email some time ago...been meaning to reply...Thanks! Ive been bogged down under my hood and working on suspension. I'll call you as soon as I'm done stomping out gremlins!  :2thumbs: Neal AKA daddog123

lilwendal I just sent you a PM as well. Thanks!  :cheers:

Hey Mike - if you read this your inbox is full and I can't reply! :)

Quote from: Corellian Corvette on April 01, 2009, 01:15:00 PM
Hey Mike - if you read this your inbox is full and I can't reply! :)

Purging now...Thanks

Quote from: lilwendal on February 06, 2009, 03:32:43 PM
Still around...Just busy as hell.  Have 11 clusters B body clusters here for clients.
Desided not to transfer. Took an early retirement package they offered and they are keeping me on till end of 09.
After that....Going to take a stab at doing cars full time.  We'll see :popcrn:

I'm jealous, Mike!  I wish my company would buy me out, and I could work on cars all the time. 

And for those who are reading all this and haven't had Mike redo your gauges (yet), he does great work, and is a pleasure to deal with.  He's done two clusters for me!  -Russ

I'm just about finished with this just some notes on reassembly that can cause problems. If you had the can off the back off the tach be sure to use your ohmmeter to verify you do not have continuity between either stud and the case.More importantly do the same with the amp gauge.  Very important!!!!!!! It doesn't really have anything to center the terminals well and I think we all know what happens if either terminal touches the case.  Once the gauge is installed I like to clip my meter on...One lead on the case one to a amp stud and wiggle the gauge to be sure its not close to touching. Switch studs and repeat.



well i had the can off back of the tach.....good thing too--- i had to resolder the pole wires to their respective points.....i am getting continuity between the can and the LONG pole...pulled the can back off...i am getting continuity between the LONG pole and the brass mounting studs...the short pole DOSENT have continuity.   am i doing something wrong here???  everything seems to be where it needs to be.

Good suggestion .I would use a thin piece plastic tubing/rubber hose trimmed with a xacto knife around the amp gauge studs after gauge was in frame from the backside.If it did later wiggle down later.It wouldnt have the metal dash frame to melt on .And blow the fuseible link

Quote from: 1charger69 on July 23, 2009, 12:51:42 PM

I'm just about finished with this just some notes on reassembly that can cause problems. If you had the can off the back off the tach be sure to use your ohmmeter to verify you do not have continuity between either stud and the case.More importantly do the same with the amp gauge.  Very important!!!!!!! It doesn't really have anything to center the terminals well and I think we all know what happens if either terminal touches the case.  Once the gauge is installed I like to clip my meter on...One lead on the case one to a amp stud and wiggle the gauge to be sure its not close to touching. Switch studs and repeat.



well i had the can off back of the tach.....good thing too--- i had to resolder the pole wires to their respective points.....i am getting continuity between the can and the LONG pole...pulled the can back off...i am getting continuity between the LONG pole and the brass mounting studs...the short pole DOSENT have continuity.   am i doing something wrong here???  everything seems to be where it needs to be.

as a side note:  the continuity i am getting from the long pole to the brass studs is just a quick beep on the meter....it reads around .5 ohms...its making me crazy!!!! :brickwall:

any thoughts on my contnuity situation guys??? ::)

Is Lilwendal/Mike still around doing restores?   I'd like to get mine done.
I PMed.   Probably swamped with orders, right?

What ball park price and turn around time are we looking at?

Quote from: Johnnys440Charger on October 02, 2009, 05:28:22 AM
Is Lilwendal/Mike still around doing restores?   I'd like to get mine done.
I PMed.   Probably swamped with orders, right?

What ball park price and turn around time are we looking at?

I think he is swamped, it took Mike a while to get back to me. As of today Mike has had my cluster for a about a week, can't wait to get it back  :drool5:

I'm trying to get a hold of him with no luck. Anyone know what's going on? Trying to get my cluster in for some work.

Quote from: Silver R/T on December 12, 2009, 06:38:31 PM
I'm trying to get a hold of him with no luck. Anyone know what's going on? Trying to get my cluster in for some work.

He might be busy...especially with the holidays fast approaching.

I've been doing my cluster and all your tips have been GREAT!  I've got to calibrate the gauges and the 5V power supply I was able to get easily reads 5.22V on my volt meter.  Before I return it and start agonizing over where to find one closer to 5, is 5.22 "close enough?"  I want to do it right, but right is relative, right?   :yesnod: :rotz:

I found a tutorial online to build a solid state voltage limiter. It turned out good, although I haven't put all the gauges back in yet.

The radio shack regulator that is part of the build will give you 5 volts exactly, and you can connect it up with jumper wires for the calibration.

I recommend building the solid state limiter, it's not too tough to do.

Thanks,

John D

Can you give me a line on the tutorial you found?  I'd like to give it a try.

I'm searching for the exact link I had. My old laptop died so I'm having to look. I believe I found it on this board. Here is a similar link:

http://1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/ml-instrument-voltage-regulator64.html (http://1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/ml-instrument-voltage-regulator64.html)

And another:http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/electrical2.html (http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/electrical2.html)

These pages do not use the original regulator case, I fit all the stuff into the original case easily, and the output is 5 volts exactly. I didn't run a giant heat sink like these show either, as the chip bolts to the case tightly. I figure the case ought to work as a heat sink pretty well.


I'll keep looking!

John D


Edit- found the link I used:http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/elec/11.html (http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/elec/11.html)

John,
So if I build this, I can ground one end and attach the other end to a 12V source (like my batter positive terminal) and it will provide the 5V?  Looks pretty easy if that's the drill.
Thanks for the help.
Kevin N.

To calibrate the gauges all you need is the regulator chip and some jumper wires. Make sure to ground the gauge to the regulator and ground the regulator also. Otherwise you'll get straight 12 volts to the gauge which will fry it in 20-30 seconds. You'll know if it's wrong because the needle will swing to the high reading real fast.

I would rebuild the regulator though. I just calibrated my gauges to the solid state regulator, then checked the readings with a NOS limiter I bought. The NOS limiter had the gauges reading really low, like 3/4 of the gauge. Weird.

Thanks,

John D

Anyone know what happened to lilwendal? I have been trying to get a hold of him without any luck. Would be nice to know when I can get mine in to get restored of if he doesn't do them anymore. That way I can have someone else work on mine.

Quote from: Silver R/T on January 09, 2010, 05:04:37 PM
Anyone know what happened to lilwendal? I have been trying to get a hold of him without any luck. Would be nice to know when I can get mine in to get restored of if he doesn't do them anymore. That way I can have someone else work on mine.

He hasn't been on here for over 4 months. A matter a fact he has only posted 8 times in the last year.

New job..a move...darn fine E body resto going on...He's a busy guy for sure!  :2thumbs:

Heres a bump.

Out of curiousty, The lever orientation of the lever is just the opposite on the switch in the car I'm working on, as opposed to as is pictured here ???????
Look at the holes in the case body .
Side opposite of the lever the  top hole is threaded, there for what should be an easy way to determine which way the lever is attached. Wrong

(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37999.0;attach=61490;image)

This is the one in the car I'm working on, and it's the exact opposite.

Up side down?  :scratchchin:

Quote from: gtx6970 on December 14, 2011, 12:40:32 PM
This is the one in the car I'm working on, and it's the exact opposite.

Did you ever figure this out? Why was the switch opposite?

Another bump...

Bill, i forget what page thats on but he wrote at the very end that post he accidentally installed the switch wrong.

I've started looking for a used cgauge cluster since mine's in bad shape - bunch of cracks, trim falling off, etc. What's a reasonable price for a cluster that is complete, has all the gauges but needs restoration?

I bought my dream car a 69 Charger it's been 90 percent restored it looks great but I' am having problems with my dash and had to re-wire the fuse box, lights and new turn signal switch. I got everything working but the gauges my originals were bad,fuel,temp & oil bought new ones and burnt the fuel gauge. The limiter is working on and of at just about 5 volts cleaned and soldered the board checked all the gauges with a battery rig and the new one all good now. Had a bad ground at the board for the limiter fixed that when I ground my gauges they work one at a time. I think the new fuel gauge burnt because the ground at the limiter maybe and the sender is grounded at the tank I checked it with the sending wire off it grounds no matter what I touch i unhooked the sender for now not to burn up the new gauge until I drop the tank. My question is this what is the ground wire everybody is talking about i tried hooking A wire to the black ammeter side like somebody said and the car did not like it sparked when i hooked up the battery. They said this has to be hooked up to keep the instruments from burning up. I thought as long as your grounds are good at the limiter and when the panel is screwed to the body everything is good. Some one hacked into the wiring at the ammeter and headlight switch my concern is burning up my new gauges at $300.00 already please help. Don't see how any other wires could hook up to it my limiter does have a cap tied to ground at the center 12 volts.

Thanks Greg.         

Quote from: lilwendal on December 28, 2007, 11:34:25 PM
OK. Odometer and clock. Depending on how many more drinks the little misses brings me will determine how far I get tonight but want to take it start to finish on a cluster. :cheers:
The odometer can be tricky and there are two styles.  70 is different than 68/69 actually the speedo is too but they are interchangable to all years but a 70 odometer must stay with a 70 speedo. Did  that make sense??? I do not have a 70 speedo out of a cluster right now but you can see the difference in the odometer wheels the one on the left is 68/69 and the right 70.  Also is a close up of the wheel alignment tabs that are very delicate and extreme care must be used during removal and installation.  So heres my choice on odometer decals.
www.performancecargraphics.com  I cant get Dave to sell me the decals but send him your odometer and he will reface it for 20.00.  His turn around on them is very quick as well.
To reset to zero or any other # combo... Just hold the far left tab and rotate all other wheels down till you get to zero.  Then move to the next tab now holding the previous one as well. Rotate down till that # gets to zero. Continue down the pike holding all the previously set wheels whle spinnning the next.  Once your there just do a final allignent of the tabs and reinstall. Engage the gear end first then slide into the slot. Snap on clip. Don't forget to apply a light grease to the odometer gear.
Clock.  Opening up the clock is not too difficult. There are bent tabs to remove the face so that they can be repainted. To get the clock internals out.. Three mild bends are made to the housing to hold it in.  Personally I convert all clocks to quartz.  Most originals I can get working with contact cleaner and light lube but they seem to always run fast or slow ove ra coupe days so for 50.00 bucks just swap it out.
More of my top secret source info ;D........There is only one place that makes the clock movements. If you buy one from anyone else for 75.00 your paying a mark up.  Get the clock from Instrument Services Inc.  1-800-558-2674  for 52.00 They have a web site but cant find the link right now.  They are also the only source for the set stem shafts thta are often broken at the adjuster knob end.  I willl not go into the details of the clock switch.  There are instructions included with the quartz unit.  For regular clock PN N-3085 and Tic Toc Tach  PN S-3015
the standard clock is easy. The tach clock has some soldering invoved but still doable for those with some soldering experience.
If you need to replace your set stem dont bother with the tool they sell for that. Just PM me and I'll walk you through it. No special tools required.
When reinstalling the speedo needle again be sure to hold the wheel on the oposite side to protect the needle bushing.
The Tach.  This goes 50/50. If I test the tach and its reading acuarately then I will not automatically convert it.  I'll leave that to the customer.
The source here is Real Time Engineering. 479-756-2757. They have a web site as well.  Also include is very detailed installation instructions but be sure you are confident with soldering,wiring and schematics before you dive  in.
Conitued to ..........Be

ok, i know this is and old post, but how do the needles come off? If i missed it somewhere im sorry, i made an account just to ask this lol.

Delete this post...didn't mean to post here

If you've read this far, check this thread:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,102064.msg1204151.html#msg1204151 (http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,102064.msg1204151.html#msg1204151)

for the issues I had with the cluster restoration. Absolutely no criticism of lilwendal or the advice given, just a cautionery tale to avoid fires guys.

PLEASE READ.

CS

For us guys upgrading the charging system, I found a guy in Tn. that can change your ammeter into a voltmeter for $79. This eliminates the fire hazzard and you still have the original gauge. John @ redline gauge & clock 731-571-0766....

Quote from: heinz13 on August 03, 2013, 09:13:01 AM
For us guys upgrading the charging system, I found a guy in Tn. that can change your ammeter into a voltmeter for $79. This eliminates the fire hazzard and you still have the original gauge. John @ redline gauge & clock 731-571-0766....

Here we go:

Contact Information:


phone:        731-571-0766


email:        redlinec@bellsouth.net


shipping:     Redline

                    John & Tammy Dvorski

                    469 Windy City Rd.

                    Humboldt, TN  38343 

http://www.redlineg.com/redlineg/Welcome.html


No endorsement, just passing on info.

CS

Forgive me for sounding ignorant (in the event the prices are listed and what you're willing to do as far as work)... but how much would it cost me to get my cluster/gauges rebuilt/restored/re-calibrated/etc. on my '68?

I know the clock is running slow, a few parts are missing, and everything is just worn in general.

Thanks

-Jeff

Hey Jeff, you may have answered your own question to an extent, but a lot depends on what exactly you want done. The OP of this thread appears to have left the forum, but have a search around and you'll find some answers.

The guy I mentioned above might be a good place to start, if he can't help I'm sure he'll have some contacts.  ;)

K9

I HAVE A 76 CHARGER DAYTONA AND CANNOT FIND ANY INFO ON THE SPEEDOMETER CLUSTER NOR ANY PICS.COULD YOU HELP.ALSO ANY LINKS ON WHERE ONE CAN GET TAIL LIGHTS FOR THIS MODEL ALL SEARCHES BRING UP THE CORDOBA STYLE LIGHTS.BY THE WAY THE JOB YOU ARE DOING IS FANTASTIC,I WISH I COULD DO THAT.THANKS HOSHANG

A factory shop manual is almost a must have for any of these older cars.  What problems are you having with the cluster?

John & Tammy Dvorski? That couple may be doomed with a name like Dvorski. I think that's what they call it in Russia when a married couple dissolves their marriage.

Don't know where to post this.  I pulled my cluster and then put it back in.  Some gauges were not working so I needed to test them.  To verify they worked, I used the setup in the picture below (a 5 v telephone charger, some resistors and alligator clips from radioshack - and followed the information at the start of this thread).  I found I could hoop up the alligator clips with the cluster installed for checking.  I could check continuity as well.  As it turned out, one of the gauges (fuel) was not making contact but was working.  A little wiggling of the nut fixed it.

Quote from: XH29N0G on December 07, 2013, 04:12:45 PM
(a 5 v telephone charger, some resistors and alligator clips from radioshack). 

Great idea.  Never thought about that.    :2thumbs:

No matter how many times I see these rebuilt clusters, I still get a huge smile on my face! :2thumbs:

That phone charger idea is clever.

Quote from: Ghoste on December 09, 2013, 09:29:51 AM
That phone charger idea is clever.

Why?

Your phone works on DC current.  A much better idea than lugging a car battery around

I was meaning that it was clever to come up with the idea.  I would have likely done it the hard way by getting a 12v source (although not by lugging a caar battery around) and then either running it through a factory limiter or a pot to bring it down. 

OK.  Basically just a power source?

I bought a little power supply box for when or if I ever do something with my dozen or so clusters'.  I didn't know if the 5V phone cord had some certain qualities about it that made it special?

My little power supply.

Thats more like I would have set up right there Mike.  :yesnod:

Quote from: 472 R/T SE on December 10, 2013, 03:01:29 PM
OK.  Basically just a power source?

I bought a little power supply box for when or if I ever do something with my dozen or so clusters'.  I didn't know if the 5V phone cord had some certain qualities about it that made it special?

My little power supply.

Ohh Purdy, where'd you find that?

I've tried to contact this guy Lilwendal with no avail, but I guess he's been mia for a while...

I'd like to have my cluster restored. Any ideas? Alternatives? Is the only other option to buy the parts from a place like BEA Parts?

thx

Quote from: heinz13 on August 03, 2013, 09:13:01 AM
For us guys upgrading the charging system, I found a guy in Tn. that can change your ammeter into a voltmeter for $79. This eliminates the fire hazzard and you still have the original gauge. John @ redline gauge & clock 731-571-0766....

Is this done with the whole cluster or just send the gauge?

I am about to send mine off but need to figure out what to do first....

Quote from: charlie45 on December 23, 2013, 03:35:50 PM
I've tried to contact this guy Lilwendal with no avail, but I guess he's been mia for a while...

I'd like to have my cluster restored. Any ideas? Alternatives? Is the only other option to buy the parts from a place like BEA Parts?

thx

Here's someone, no experience.  Not cheap.
http://www.autoinstruments.com/mopar.htm

How about www.tachman.com ?    Good screenshots.   Thinking about giving him a try. 

I had mine done by autoinstruments.com, I thought they did a fantastic job, and no, it wasn't cheap, but there was no way I was tackling that myself..

It sure looks fantastic in the photo!

Yup, lets just hope it works as good as it looks!! turnaround time was about 3 months or so.  My wife was teasing me about how excited i was after I saw the seconds hand on the clock move for the first time in 15 years  :'(   That was when I tested the dash after putting it in the car.  she just doesnt understand  :icon_smile_big:

Redline Gaugeworks in california rebuit my tic toc tach and did a great job!!! They have a website and I think the guy I talked to was named Shannon. The fix on my tach was a pretty quick turn around and it works great too!!!

Quote from: timmycharger on January 23, 2014, 09:29:52 PM
I had mine done by autoinstruments.com, I thought they did a fantastic job, and no, it wasn't cheap, but there was no way I was tackling that myself..

Beautiful cluster Timmy!  :drool5: WoW!!!! :2thumbs: :cheers:

Jeff

In pulling and reassembling my cluster a second time, I was checking continuity and found that it was not good after reassembly.  (I have been having issues with continuity to the various gauges.)  What I did (and others can comment whether this is a bad idea) was to remove the nut (pictured below and run the contact surface across fine sandpaper (I used 800 grit) to clean it and hopefully to make a better contact with the copper of the board.  After doing this, I did not have any issues with continuity to and from the gauges.  I will see if issues appear in the next few weeks, but hope this solves the problem.  

Quick update:  I just filled the gas tank and the gauge now reads full rather than 3/4.  I thought I had a sending unit issue.  It appears to have had something to do with the connection of the gas gauge to the board. 

Quote from: XH29N0G on March 09, 2014, 07:58:51 PM
In pulling and reassembling my cluster a second time, I was checking continuity and found that it was not good after reassembly.  (I have been having issues with continuity to the various gauges.)  What I did (and others can comment whether this is a bad idea) was to remove the nut (pictured below and run the contact surface across fine sandpaper (I used 800 grit) to clean it and hopefully to make a better contact with the copper of the board.  After doing this, I did not have any issues with continuity to and from the gauges.  I will see if issues appear in the next few weeks, but hope this solves the problem. 

Quick update:  I just filled the gas tank and the gauge now reads full rather than 3/4.  I thought I had a sending unit issue.  It appears to have had something to do with the connection of the gas gauge to the board. 

I think this is the same issue I was having with my oil psi gauge.  While cluster was in car I probed the back of the studs with my voltmeter....no continuity so I fugured my gauge was burnt out.

Ordered up a new OER repro (nice piece by the way) & took the cluster out.  While I had gauge out of the cluster, I rechecked the continuity....works perfectly.  i suspect, as well it was the copper contacts.   I will be removing all the gauges now & sanding the copper contacts as well as the backs of the speed nuts this time around :thumbs:

I just had a chance to replace my temp gauge with another one that I sent out to have calibrated.  My old original one was reading 30* higher than what it actually was (rather have it read too high than too low!) While my cluster was out I cleaned up all of the contacts on the back of the circuit board.  Hoping the new / re-calibrated gauge is correct when I get a chance to take the car out.

I wonder if a bad connection could make it read too high.   :scratchchin:  Im sure, if anything, it would have made it read too low.

I do not know.  I suspect greater resistance will mean less current and a low reading. I also do not know if my change makes sense.   Maybe someone who knows about these things will pipe in.  It seems like we would need a change of a few ohms across the connection to explain the behavior I saw and I do not know if an Al oxide coating could do that.   :shruggy:  But I think I am seeing a marked change in my gas gauge so I thought I would post it to bring it to people's attention in case it was reproducible.

True but like I said, I have not fired up my charger since I've done this so I have no comparison to go by yet. :shruggy:

Hey guys, I just saw this thread and was curious who still does cluster resto's?

I want to get mine redone, but I have no clue who and where to send it out to.  :shruggy:

Thanks

Jeff

Quote from: MxRacer855 on July 28, 2015, 08:29:02 PM
Hey guys, I just saw this thread and was curious who still does cluster resto's?

I want to get mine redone, but I have no clue who and where to send it out to.  :shruggy:

Thanks

Jeff

Instrument specialities and Redline gauges can do them.  Just google those names  :2thumbs:

Thanks 69!
:cheers:

I've had good luck with Performance Car graphics as they can redo / rebuild instrument clusters as well.  They do everything from screening the print on to repairing the gauges and even can rechrome the plastic if needed.

Good day. I'm having issues with my gauges and just not knowing what i am doing doesn't help. The fuel gauge doesn't work and none of the instrument panel lights work either. Is there something wired wrong or am I just messing things up? Could use some help on this. Thanks

There is a lot of information in this thread and elsewhere on checking the different gauges.  I do not know what your background is, and mine is self taught and mostly from people here, so please excuse me if what I write is something you already know.  

Checking gauges:  I believe all the gauges work on a 5 Volt reading for max reading. 12 volt or 9 volt will fry them.  This is outlined on the first page of this thread, and several ways of getting 5 volt power supplies are described throughout.  You also can use three 1.5 volt batteries in series to get 4.5 volts.  This will allow you to check each gauge.  I believe the gauges operate on the principal that the current heats them and then they bend into position.

The amp gauge is the exception and you should be careful with that not to short on it.

Then, if you have a multimeter, you can check for continuity between the gauges and the parts of the board that run them.  If you do not have a multimeter, consider getting one, it is very useful.  You can also check the voltage and whether it is reaching the right places on the cluster.

The types of things that went wrong with my 70 include connections (which can be made by aluminum nuts on the backs of the gauges getting oxidized (they can be sanded lightly), , the bulbs and the connections made by the bulbs, and the switches (like the light switch) being oxidized (I took my switch apart and immersed it in heated vinegar to dissolve some of the corrosion and then rinsed it with a baking soda saturated solution to neutralize the acidity and then coated with light oil.  This seemed to fix my light switch.  The multimeter (ohm meter part) allowed me to check bulbs and a number of connections.

There is a regulator that drops the voltage on the cluster to 5 volts.  I believe it is a mechanical device and can get stuck which can fry the gauges.  I looked up a replacement electronic gauge cluster regulator using the search tool and replaced it.  I think most here would recommend that replacement.

I also found the wiring diagrams in the factory service manual (FSM) very helpful for sorting out electrical issues.

I do not know what else.  There are a number on here who are much better versed than I in this, and they will undoubtedly pipe in.

I think most on here love to see the cars people work on and especially from people just joining.  There are places to do that on the forum.   :Twocents:  Welcome.

Mike I see that you are a very datails kind of guy. I would like to know how I can purchase one of your pieces of art you're creating? We can do some kind of exchange or I'm sure we can work something out to make us both happy. Let me know if that is possible ar if there is an exact cost for one of your clusters. Thanks  JR

Mike this is JR again. I'm having problems with my dash. My gas gauge doesnt work and none of the lights for my panel light up. On top of all the issues my speedometer jumps all over the place and the high beam bulb connector is broken. The turn signals work, wipers work, the hazard lights flash. The E brake light doesn't work either. Just want to know what provides power to those bulbs? Just not to good with the electrical part of the car and the wiring diagram only tells you part of what you need to know. Thanks again JR

Quote from: 69ELPASOCharger on August 20, 2015, 10:46:19 AM
Mike I see that you are a very datails kind of guy. I would like to know how I can purchase one of your pieces of art you're creating? We can do some kind of exchange or I'm sure we can work something out to make us both happy. Let me know if that is possible ar if there is an exact cost for one of your clusters. Thanks  JR

Mr. 69ELPASO, Mike hasn't been in the forum since '11.  If I were you, don't get your hopes up that he sees this & wait on him to contact you.


By the looks of things XH will be your best bet for valuable information. 

If you click on a member's username you can see their profile.  Mike has an email address listed.  Perhaps try to contact him through that.  I remember him being a busy guy so good luck.



Seeing all these members chasing after Mike sure has me kicking myself.  I bought over a dozen clusters back in the early '00's with intentions of restoring & reselling to fund my Charger.  Bought the power supply & everything else.  I also pulled all Mike's threads in this post & made a cluster restoration booklet.

Thanks for the heads up. I just can't seem to get this dash cluster tright so I will just keep trying.

Quote from: 69ELPASOCharger on August 21, 2015, 09:16:56 AM
Thanks for the heads up. I just can't seem to get this dash cluster tright so I will just keep trying.

I restore mine myself.  What's the issue you're having?

Dino, thanks for asking. Well were do I begin... 1. The fuel gauge doesnt work 2. The lights on the cluster don't turn on 3. The bulb holder for the high beam is broken 4. The speedometer gauge needs to be replaced.  I think that all the issues minus the speedometer issue are linked together. Just so many isues to tackle at one time. I have been reading and I do believe that I will need a voltage limiter to solve my issues. If you have any idea were I can find the high beam bulb holder Please let me know. Well these issues just don't go away so I will keep trying to solve them.

Dino hope you can help. 

The bulb holders used to be available at parts stored but I'm not sure that's still the case.  You may find them at megapartsusa.com or one of the resto places.

The non functioning dash lights could be either no power feed to the cluster or one or more loose pins on the circuit board.  Even when they feel tight they still may have issues so you can do what I did to mine:  clean the board and solder the pins to the board, both sides.  That solved all my light and gauge issues.  Speedometer gauges can be rebuild, bought used, or bought new.  The latter is a bit costly but they can be found cheap used.  The gauge decals from performancecargraphics.com are very nice and will make the guages look brand new.  I did this on mine a few years back.

The voltage limiter is best replaced with a solid state model from RTE.  I think you need the IVR4 if I recall.  Works just like the original but won't fry the gauges if a oltage spike occurs.

Gauges can be calibrated out of the car so I'd start with taking the cluster apart, clean up what you can, solder and clean the circuit board and get that voltage limiter.  With a few test wires you ca then calibrate each gauge.

You can of course first make sure you are getting power to the circuit board itself.  There may be an issue with the wiring but they are dead simple so a problem is easy to spot.

I sure as hell hope that Mike stays in the hole he crawled into back in 2011, because if he does surface I'll find him to wring his neck as he still owes me for several grand worth of parts wich he never forwarded to me.......

:RantExplode:

Wow.  That's screwed up.  I believe you but he sure doesn't seem like the type to do that by reading his posts.

I hope it got lost or something.  Still, that's a lot of $$ to just forget about.

Surprised you haven't publicly hung him yet?   :shruggy:  He won't even respond to you through email either?

I'm sorry man, that sucks.

I guess that's why he went into hiding. Thanks to everyone that gave their advice. I will pull the dash out this weekend and see how it goes. Thanks again

I'm clueless into what happened to him. He got divorced and moved, changed his phone number and so I lost him. I never ranted off on him because he was a true stand up guy. I bought a shitload of parts wich he stored for me and crated up for shipping by boat to Europe. He never asked for a dime or anything until he just vanished.... Always thought he'd come trough eventually. but its been more than 4 years now. Most of the sheetmetal he still had I bought a second time.....

I can still use that OEM mint condition hurst console 4 speed shift lever among other misc small parts..... Its been so long I dont even get pissed over it anymore.... just dissapointed. The reaction above just slipped out in a moment of weakness I guess...

deep inside I still hope he's OK and just comes around again here to say hello.

Wow, that is surprising.  He always seemed like a good guy.  I hope everything with him is ok.

Quote from: 69ELPASOCharger on August 24, 2015, 11:55:43 AM
Dino, thanks for asking. Well were do I begin... 1. The fuel gauge doesnt work 2. The lights on the cluster don't turn on 3. The bulb holder for the high beam is broken 4. The speedometer gauge needs to be replaced.  I think that all the issues minus the speedometer issue are linked together. Just so many isues to tackle at one time. I have been reading and I do believe that I will need a voltage limiter to solve my issues. If you have any idea were I can find the high beam bulb holder Please let me know. Well these issues just don't go away so I will keep trying to solve them.

Dino hope you can help. 

You and I are having very similar problems. I isolated my gauge issue to the voltage regulator with the cluster out. Its very easy to test the circuit board and gauges with two AA batteries and two pieces of wire. It doesn't tell you if they are accurate or not, but with two AAs, my three gauges all went to about 3/4. And the circuit that runs the three bulbs on the PC board are testable too. I just ordered the VR yesterday off ebay ($59) cuz Dino vouched for it. I've read real good things. Plus, I read that the main cause of "dead gauges" is a bad regulator. But being that your others work, it might be okay. I'd replace it anyway. Just old electromechanic technology that needs updated. And you don't need that compressor barrel thing. I'm very short on cash lately, so the regulator was manageable for now. I also have troubles with the lights on interior/cluster not working. Gonna put some work in tomorrow and hopefully it helps us both. I have a feeling my dimmer might be bad too but its hard to say. Anyway, good luck El Paso. We can fix these Chargers, just read a lot and post a lot lol. And one thing I read a lot is MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS GROUNDED!!!!!  :2thumbs:
-Mike

I edited my thread to remove your quote just in case.   ;)

Hi I have a question for you: Does the tic toc tac sit farther back in the cluster than the clock and speedometer? I just got mine in the mail and put it in my cluster and it sits noticeably farther back. I paid $370 for an "authentic mopar restoration part" off eBay.

Here are a couple pics.

Yes it does, that's normal.  The clock part itself sits flush with the speedometer but the tach sits deeper.  I'm actually contemplating keeping my stock clock because of it. 

Hmm my clock face sits about 1/4 inch behind the speedo face. I'd prefer if they had built em flush, but it won't stop e from running it. Are all these things built to stock dimensions? It would kill me to know my tach sits even FARTHER back than "normal"

Maybe I'm wrong.  I assumed the clock and speedometer were flush.  I have an original toc-toc-tach here and my cluster is out so I'll drop it in there and compare.

Thank you sir I appreciate it!

They're not flush. I can get a shot of my original Rallye dash 'Bee if you like.

Quote from: birdsandbees on November 19, 2015, 11:23:24 PM
They're not flush. I can get a shot of my original Rallye dash 'Bee if you like.

Yes please if you don't mind. I have such a hard time comparing my car to anything because the cluster I had before was a chunk of wood with gauges bolted to it.

Hard to get a good picture, but that is correct. Clock face is about 1/4" further back than speedo face and of course the tach is another inch back. Shot of my 'Bee, it's never been out.

Didn't get a pic of mine but I can confirm the clock's about 1/4" back from the speedometer.  I don't like it.

Thanks guys, I can sleep sound now haha. I'm not crazy about how far back it is either, but I have made peace with most of the weird things Mopar did back in the day simply because it's mopar and I love it. Structurally, it doesn't even look like it would have been difficult to mount it more flush. Hmmm...oh well. Thanks again Dino and Birds, Ill post a picture of it installed and lit up as soon as I get my wiring harness!   :dance:

Sure appreciate your help on resto. of the cluster. I have a question,regarding the Tic TOC Tach. I saw an article about someone selling kits to upgrade the tach. to run with electronic ignition. they say it will not work otherwise. Do you have input on this?

Thanks.

Real Time Engineering (www.rt-eng.com) makes a replacement circuit board that will allow the tach to work with points or electronic ignition.

Quote from: lilwendal on January 01, 2008, 05:27:52 AM

I've recieved a couple requests on the removal of the cluster from the car. So just a brief run down. Others that might have tips here post up!
A. Disconnect battery.
B. Check to see if you disconnected the battery.
C .Pull the radio bezel.  Not doing this is a sure way to loose the lower right corner of the cluster bezel.  Ever notice how many Ebay bezels for sale are missing that corner??
D.Next I like to slide under the dash and disonnect the speedo cable.  It gives more room for getting the cluster aft to disconnect the wiring.
E. Drop the steering column. You can just loosen the bolts to the end of thier travel and that will give enough room to get the cluster out but I prefer to get it completely down and out of the way.  You might also have to loosen the 4 bolts where the column passes through the firewall to get it to come down fully.
F.Now remove the 5 screws that hold the cluster to the dash. The ones visable through the bezel.  Now the only thing that has it is the wiring and the charger vacuum hoses.
G. I start from the left side of the cluster.  Pull it aft just enough to get a hand in there to disconnect the vacuum fitting from the headlight switch.  I often do this when I'm under the dash undoing the speedo cable but it depends on how well you 'fit' under there.  There is a small metal clip,often missing, that holds the rubber fitting on.
H. Now start disconnecting the wiring from that left side.  Each time you unplug a switch or light the cluster will come a little further out from the left side allowing your hand to go a little further right to unplug more. When you get to the terminal board be carefull.  Do not bend or wiggle the connector up and down.  This will weaken the already problematic pins. Do your best to pull it straight off. The last thing to go is the amp gauge wiring that is attached with two 3/8 nuts.
I. That should be it.
If you need to put power back on the car you can simply use a screw and nut to connect the amp wiring terminals.  Then wrap with electrical tape.  Now you can still use the electric and even start the car if desired. Of course you have no way to monitor engine conditions but I do this just to get a car to move around the garage.

The connectors for the switches are all idiot proof where they will only go on thier assocaited switch but it would be a good idea to mark the bulb socket.  That way your high beam indicator doesn't flash when you use your turn signal.

I do alot more cluster rebuilds then I installs so again if anyone has other ideas on the removal please post up for others.

Well thats a wrap.  Questions.... Feel free to ask and I'll help if I can.

I know you posted this a long time ago, but wanted to thank you for the step by step. I followed it pretty much to the letter. I've attempted to take my cluster out and got frustrated, so I never did. That being said, I'm pretty sure my cluster hasn't ever been out so it was quite challenging. It went back in a bazillion times easier than it came out....either way thank you!!

This thread is hands down the best cluster restoration guide. Does anyone have a link to a complete dash resto thread? Everything but the cluster would work for me seeing as we already have one of those...

I know this is old thread but my '68 Charger is new to me. I'm going to pull the cluster and refurbish my gauges. Just want to say thank you for this thread, time very well spent to help all of us lil w. Dave  :2thumbs:

Anyone have a source for someone who can do 3rd Gen faces...I learned the hard way decals DO NOT work because they aren't flat

You can try Gentry at Autoinstruments.com or David Paris at performance car graphics should be able to redo the faces.

Hit that with a heat gun or hair dryer and work it down?

Does he Still do Restorations

Quote from: Mr Bigblock on January 15, 2020, 06:25:28 PM
Does he Still do Restorations

He Who?

Quote from: b5blue on January 15, 2020, 10:32:07 AM
Hit that with a heat gun or hair dryer and work it down?

Tried, 1st picture was after heat gun, this is before. also if you peel the sticker off it rips off your paint  :RantExplode:

it's in its way to D&H  in south Carolina, luckily I had a spare head

I refaced my 70's and 6 months later it crapped out anyway.  :eek2:

Quote from: resq302 on January 15, 2020, 09:36:36 PM

Quote from: Mr Bigblock on January 15, 2020, 06:25:28 PM
Does he Still do Restorations

He Who
lilwendal

He has not posted on this thread for about 10 years so who knows?  :shruggy:

Quote from: lilwendal on December 28, 2007, 10:42:21 PM

... VERIFY alll gauges,clocks,speedo work prior to anything.  Ask me why I would spend all that time on a speedo with a sheared needle bushing thats not fixable?????  Thats what makes me an expert. Its stilll sitting on the shelf.

I am looking into restoring my gauges and will use lilendal's write up as a guide. And I would like to verify my gauges work before I begin, but he doesn't say how to test the speedometer and or clock and or tic-toc tach. He does show how to test the small gauges and will you that.

So does has anyone know how to check the larger gauges?

Anyone have a recommendation for paint on the bezel face. Mine is black not woodgrain. Would like to paint it but don't know which brand or type paint to purchase. Thank you.

SEM trim black with duplicolor adhesion promoter 🤙

Thank you!!

Welcome. Post pictures when you're done ;)

Quote from: Armycopter on October 25, 2020, 07:33:52 PM
Anyone have a recommendation for paint on the bezel face. Mine is black not woodgrain. Would like to paint it but don't know which brand or type paint to purchase. Thank you.

SEM Landau Black

Quote from: AKcharger on January 16, 2020, 11:23:40 AM

Quote from: b5blue on January 15, 2020, 10:32:07 AM
Hit that with a heat gun or hair dryer and work it down?

Tried, 1st picture was after heat gun, this is before. also if you peel the sticker off it rips off your paint  :RantExplode:

it's in its way to D&H  in south Carolina, luckily I had a spare head

Oh! D&H did a AWESOME job

Quote from: AKcharger on January 16, 2020, 11:23:40 AM

Quote from: b5blue on January 15, 2020, 10:32:07 AM
Hit that with a heat gun or hair dryer and work it down?

Tried, 1st picture was after heat gun, this is before. also if you peel the sticker off it rips off your paint  :RantExplode:

it's in its way to D&H  in south Carolina, luckily I had a spare head

Did you install it wet or dry?

Installed wet so I could position it. I couldn't see where dry would make a difference.

I have a 67 Charger and installed new lenses and a new bezel. Upon reinstalling, my headlights come on, my wipers work but I have no gauges working nor any electroluminecent lights. I have checked the wiring and have a wiring diagram, all seems to be in order. I think it might be a ground issue or a power issue. what do you suggest I do to get power to come on?