Through all the stuff that I know about 727 transmissions, and their common faults etc. What's the best option to go with? I have gone through 4 with not racing it or doing crazy stuff. burnouts yes, spirited driving yes - If ya cant do that stuff in a muscle why am keeping this thing. Ive been told that since I drive in manual sometimes, that it has killed my transmissions, I doubt that. especially with an cheetah auto/manual VB and all the upgrades made to the internals.
Looking to see what this crowds recommendations are, I'm extremely careful on what I'm dumping money into this time.
The 727 is a very strong transmission. If you are having a problem keeping them alive I would look for other reasons. First and foremost is cooling. Make sure the transmission cooler is clean and flowing fluid properly. Heat is the biggest killer of a transmission.
Thought I had addressed the heat on my last rebuild, I added new braided lines with external cooler. The heat concerns were brought up last time I had an issue and I moved away from the sticks lines and rad cooling.
I appreciate your comments though. I guess frustrated or ticked off isn't the best words but I'd like to find what combo will work best for me so I won't have to piss away even more money in two years. No better please to get that opinion then right here.
I guess another question is strength differences between 727 and 833 manual. I'm looking at all angles, tired of wasting money.
What failed in the 4 transmissions you reference?
What exactly is done to the trans.
How much torque are you putting through it.
Are you doing your burnouts in 1st gear?
Have you talked with some of the bigger trans builders? They may have some ideas or solutions for your problem. I have been pretty rough on my 46RH, and the 727 before it. Burnouts, full throttle shifting, etc. Never a problem. My 360 engine makes 300HP and 400 Foot pounds. That is not huge power, but I am not easy on the car.
PATC, https://transmissioncenter.net/,
Monster, https://www.monstertransmission.com/TF8-727-Transmission-Heavy-Duty-2WD_p_5032.html#.W6JiGGhKjIU,
TCI, http://www.tciauto.com/
Coon hunter brings up some good questions. When doing a burn out dont let up on the gas to stop the burn out, you should let the car roll away and shift before letting up. Have all these rebuilds been using the same trans case?
What failed in the 4 transmissions you reference?
1- SB 727/318 SB - was the original it was a stock transmission / lots of miles - used it till it went, clutches were shot
2- SB 727/318 SB - Original transmission was rebuilt using a TCI rebuild kit, hard parts were in good condition. transmission failed a year later when reverse and 1st started to slip.
3- BB 727/440 BB - Transmission was a new TCI Super street fighter, torque converter was 2400 stall (new) and new cooling lines and rad. This failed about a year later, upon rebuild it was determined it was getting too hot, replaced the clutches, seals, drums bands etc.
4 - BB 727/440 BB - After rebuild of TCI transmission - it lasted a good 2 years. I noticed that it was slipping in first and then in reverse, reverse was making a whing noise as well. I looked at the fluid at the dipstick and it looked a little dark but not black as the previous three times. fluid level was good as well. I then dropped the pan and saw some dirty fluid dirty filter and some debry. I have stopped there for now.
What exactly is done to the trans.
They all received a good cleaning and full rebuild each time. After #3 I replaced the pump and torque converter and added braided cooling lines an fittings and external cooler. The upgraded internals were recommendations from cope and TSR racing at the time because I had enough crap dealing with TCI.
How much torque are you putting through it.
I don't have a documented torque number it a 440, 30 over bore, edelbrock power pack package, compression 10:1 speed pro pistons etc. So torque is above stock numbers but I do not know exactly.
Are you doing your burnouts in 1st gear?
Yes I do burnouts in first gear, and as I'm researching the 727 more and more I'm reading that's a bad idea. Most of what I was reading is that it should be done in 2nd. I never heard of this but this justification made sense.
Quote from: Paul G on September 19, 2018, 10:01:02 AM
Have you talked with some of the bigger trans builders? They may have some ideas or solutions for your problem. I have been pretty rough on my 46RH, and the 727 before it. Burnouts, full throttle shifting, etc. Never a problem. My 360 engine makes 300HP and 400 Foot pounds. That is not huge power, but I am not easy on the car.
PATC, https://transmissioncenter.net/,
Monster, https://www.monstertransmission.com/TF8-727-Transmission-Heavy-Duty-2WD_p_5032.html#.W6JiGGhKjIU,
TCI, http://www.tciauto.com/
Coon hunter brings up some good questions. When doing a burn out dont let up on the gas to stop the burn out, you should let the car roll away and shift before letting up. Have all these rebuilds been using the same trans case?
I have talked to those three in detail before doing the last rebuild. TCI I will never deal with again, they are useless, Monster was great but after speaking to their techs, and having the guy who was gonna do my rebuild talk to them, it was determined to continue with our rebuild instead of having them do it. I did contact PATC, Cope and TSR as well but it seemed like we had a good game plan.
It very well could be the few times I was aggressively driving, but it should last longer. That's why I'm double checking all my facts and getting educated as much as possible prior to any money spent towards any transmission solution.
I really appreciate all the comments!!!!
Ok, so it was 2 units, not 4. Fair enough. Forgot ththe small block as its gone. The 1st tci got overheated and cooked, then rebuilt. Not sure what has failed yet but if 1st and reverse are soft, you kindof already know. Full teardown will tell. Rolling out of a burnout in 1st or 2nd and letting the tires hook is hard on sprags and bands. Depending on what valvebody you have regarding the band. Should finish in 3rd. Time for tear down and inspection before we can really go much further. Do you have a temp gauge on it?
I don't have a temp gauge hooked up, I did buy one but omitted on hooking it up stupidly. c00nhunterjoe, I highly respect your opinion on this and you have never lead me wrong. I'm not sure when I will get into a tear down of the transmission. But in the mean time I wanna explore my options, maybe find the best suitable option for the car, engine and driving experience. I've never run through all the gears while doing a burnout, is that in general or a mopar thing? Of course I'm a mopar guy but gained most of my experience through Chevy guys. it is what it is.
Valve body was a cheetah 17676 auto/manual. I was told at the time that was my best option versus using the TCI one I already had.
In all reality, the eddy power package is not the biggest power maker. But to be safe, lets say you are making 490 hp/520 ft lbs. I assume you are not running a drag radial or anything super sticky so power to the ground is limited. A mild 727 should easily sustain that given you are not cooking the fluid. I highly suggest installing the gauge, especially if you already have it.
The reason for the burnouts is the sprag failure. I doubt its the cause for your failures as your case is still in 1 peice. Your vb may have low band apply which helps take the shock off the spragduring a 1st or 2nd gear abuse. Im not 100% sure on the manual/auto ones. Best rule of thumb is get into 3rd before rolling out of the burnout. Its not just 727s that have that type of failure. Gm 4l80s can do it as well but the case grenading is not as popular a problem as a torqueflite. Ive got mine wrapped in kevlar, but im overkill and have alot more hp going through mine on slicks.
What upgrades to the internals were done? You said cope amd tsr set you up but what was done aside from the valve body.
What fluid are you using?
Does the trans cooler get hot after driving?
disconnect rear cooler line , start the engine and see if a steady stream of fluid is returning from the cooler.
Hook up temp Gauge.
When I put a 2500rpm converter in my A518 the temps in the pan went up slightly (15*) when driving with the converter unlocked. About the same power as your car. Temps 150-180* even if you go the drag strip. Sorry I don't have a temp gauge on the other Charger with a 727.
I know the type of fluid was a big thing when I rebuilt it a couple years ago. I wanna say I used the performance tci fluid. I think at the end of the day that is what I was persauded towards. The temp gauge I'll have to deal with once I'm on to the new transmission. Didn't think of the possibility that te cooler may have gotten clogged and caused an over heating of the fluid.
Probably Sunday I can run some more tests and see what's what.
What about line pressure. How is the kickdown adjusted, where are the shift points?
That was setup based on trans rebuild manual. Fsm and kick down was a lobar cable
Line pressure is very important. I have installed a few shift kits, trans swaps, adjustments, etc. but I am not a trans re-builder so someone will chime in here if I am wrong. Lower line pressure will allow the trans to shift gears quicker at lower speeds, the clutches will slip a little more for easier shifts but causing more wear on them. Higher line pressure will allow the shift points at higher speed, firmer shifts, and actually easier on the clutches.
Line pressure is adjusted with the kickdown rods or cable. Something to consider. And it must be set for the engine and combination you are using. The FSM is designed for a stock application. You are no longer stock.
Thanks for the info. I suppose I could fill it back up and test the pressures it's at now. I really don't have a good grasp of what it was after rebuild. As I was the rebuilder. But I can try to find out.
What I am saying is if you have been running the trans with quick shift points, which equals low line pressure, it can prematurely wear out the clutches.
This is pretty basic, but are you flushing out the cooler and lines when replacing the trans? Old fluid holds shavings and junk that can ruin a fresh trans..
external cooler and lines were all new on last build as well as VB and torque converter and pump
Quote from: mopar0166 on September 19, 2018, 07:12:54 AM
Ive been told that since I drive in manual sometimes, that it has killed my transmissions, I doubt that. especially with an cheetah auto/manual VB and all the upgrades made to the internals.
Kinda depends on how often "sometimes" is. Regardless of anecdotal tales to the contrary, manually shifting a TF that's not properly modified is hard on the trans, especially the rear band which is used in Reverse and you stated a couple of your failures were in Reverse.
The "manual/automatic" feature in a valve body is just an advertising gimmick; if you think about it, a bone stock valve body is manual/automatic.
Thanks john for the reply. I understand what your saying, and yes I do enjoy shifting manually. :brickwall: I guess if I were to stay with an automatic then I need to restrain the shifter from manually being dropped into gears etc. I will have to keep this thread updated as I know more about the failure and how to move forward again.
Or put a manual valve body in it and be done with it.
From what I understand that a good option for racing but what about street driving.
One of my Chargers is manual VB (bought it that way) . Seams to work fine on the street. I wondered about wearing out the rooster comb shifting, but no problems yet. If you forget to down shift at a stop sign, it is kind of doggy acceleration starting in third gear, but outside of a little more heat from the converter churning more the transmission does not seam to suffer.
Thanks for the reply.
looks like I have some planning to do prior to starting this repair. Theres no quick fix but information is very valuable in building yet another transmission.
would a 833 4 speed be a better option?
Quote from: mopar0166 on September 25, 2018, 12:09:16 PM
would a 833 4 speed be a better option?
Depends on if you want it to be. Both are equally strong and be upgraded stronger.
If you like spirited driving, and since you are going through 727's I would think you do, a manual has it's own problems. Clutch failure, hammered rear diffs, broken axles. These things are more prominent to failure with a strong manual trans since it can hit the drive line much harder than an automatic can.
I agree, are you guys seeing a 8 3/4 rear will need some better parts as well if I went with a manual. The car was built for fun on the street , going to some shows and to enjoy driving it. If what I'm being told is to stick in drive and go with and automatic, then its really not what I want. I have a couple jeeps and its awesome to get in them and drive it with a manual. Ill be talking with the guy who built my current transmission tonight about options. only concern I have about going to a four speed is the crank wasn't drilled for a manual.
Looks like a thrust washer went , which what my guy thinks the left overs in the pan are. A lot of questions came out of the conversation though. Like changing the gear ratio finding better internals parts. Maybe adding a line lock etc.
I'll have to keep y'all updated
thoughts on switching to roller bearing thrust washers
IMO an 8 3/4 on the street with a true street tire that doesn't get beat on all the time wont be a problem, manual or auto.
I have run 727's for years, only problem I have had is one broken rear band, probably due to me banging it back to low at full throttle too often. My ride for the last 6 years has been a 440 with around 480hp/727. I have made upgrades to it but at that level a bog stock 727 would be reliable.
I have never had an issue with thrust washers, I would suggest that you check your clearance on your planets, you need to take the slack out of the output shaft by pushing it into the trans (resting the end of the output shaft on the floor will work) then with a dial gauge check the input shaft clearance, if you don't take the slack out first your number will be off, can't remember the spec but you want some - at least .005".
Quote from: justcruisin on September 27, 2018, 01:47:54 PM
IMO an 8 3/4 on the street with a true street tire that doesn't get beat on all the time wont be a problem, manual or auto.
I have run 727's for years, only problem I have had is one broken rear band, probably due to me banging it back to low at full throttle too often. My ride for the last 6 years has been a 440 with around 480hp/727. I have made upgrades to it but at that level a bog stock 727 would be reliable.
I have never had an issue with thrust washers, I would suggest that you check your clearance on your planets, you need to take the slack out of the output shaft by pushing it into the trans (resting the end of the output shaft on the floor will work) then with a dial gauge check the input shaft clearance, if you don't take the slack out first your number will be off, can't remember the spec but you want some - at least .005".
Thanks for the response, the last 727 that was built was upgraded in many ways from stock. I'm finding new info on how to make a 727 last longer. My 440 probably puts out similar numbers or maybe a bit more but I don't think a stock 727 would last long. I could very well be still getting heat issues, I will kow more once it the transmission is removed and up on my work bench. I took a chance on just adding a big external cooler and upgraded lines to try to keep it cool. There is some preliminary evidence showing it was running hot, which may have destroyed a thrust washer. The slack and clearances were set according the 727-service manual that I have. Those numbers were verified on the internet as well. I can't tell you that number off the top of my head. I think the addition of roller thrust washer will be a great benefit, I'm also going to add a fan to the external cooling system and monitor it with a gauge. No matter what I decide I wanted be able to have fun with the car, If I wanted a cruiser it be much different than a charger.
ill be in Carlisle next weekend looking to see what 4 speed stuff is around.
Quote from: mopar0166 on September 27, 2018, 01:21:15 PM
thoughts on switching to roller bearing thrust washers
Not as easy as just installing them, machine work involved. Was the thrust washer that failed metal or fiber?
It was fiber. A&A offer a full rollerized kit for the 727, which is machined for the roller thrust washer
Our needle bearing kits help reduce the friction in the parts. Each component is machined to take a Torrington Needle Bearing to replace the stock thrust washers. Our needle bearing kits have a large advantage over much of our competition. We assemble our 727 planetaries with all new internal components (i.e., gears, shafts, pins, needle bearings and washers).
727 Complete Kits Include: front planetary, front annulus, rear planetary, steel low/reverse drum with bearing, rear support with bearing and modified steel park gear.
http://www.aandatrans.com/Products/727-Complete-Kit---Planetary-Back---4-Pinion-Steel-Spline-(1962-75-Spline)__22224BKSS.aspx
Good grief. Something is not right. Your driving, or your rebuilds or something. I've beat on stock rebuilt 727 with a shift kit at your power level for 10 Years and probably 200 passes at the track. It was still running fine when I rebuilt it.
Ill take the blame over needing to do a rebuild. I have zero doubt in the build of the transmission it self. It just needs to be rethinked on surviving more then just cruising etc.
Ill keep Yall updated.
If they added performance parts, and went strictly by the service manual as stated for assembly, thats probably the problem. If line pressures are up with a shift kit, i would have set the clearance at the minimum. I would bet yours is too loose and the drum is beating the thrust washer to death.
Quote from: mopar0166 on September 28, 2018, 01:14:27 PM
727 Complete Kits Include: front planetary, front annulus, rear planetary, steel low/reverse drum with bearing, rear support with bearing and modified steel park gear.
http://www.aandatrans.com/Products/727-Complete-Kit---Planetary-Back---4-Pinion-Steel-Spline-(1962-75-Spline)__22224BKSS.aspx
It should be noted that that kit won't work with a fully automatic trans and it doesn't eliminate the fiber thrust washers that failed.
thanks for the comments, they both make a lot of sense. I was told that fiber thrust washer has to be a weak area and should be upgraded to ether steel or rollerized. I do remember when we setup the last transmission, we didn't spend much time beyond the standard setup to check pressures etc. because it was operating well. I don't remember the specifics off the top of my head. I was also told the TH400 transmission use metal thrust washers and that it was an area of question last time it was built.
Would it be beneficial to find steel thrust washers and also to set the clearances at a min for that setup instead of using the rollerized equipment?
Thanks
I have considerable experience building 727's and I don't agree that the fiber thrust washers are a "weak point", I've only seen one failure in over 500 builds and I believe that was the builder's fault i.e. too much end play in the front setup.
Thanks for the comment John, I have noting all the great advice for if and when I decide to do another 727 build. Not to push negatively on the subject, but for my own education, why is a fiber thrust washer used vs a metal etc?
When I drop the transmission completely out , ill make sure to make a new post and take a lot of pics as well. I will also look over the manuals that were used during the build maybe their is a better one for performance builds.
Thanks again :popcrn:
The metal tanged thrust washers in the gear train are one thickness only and the endplay is set with a selective thickness snap ring, the large diameter fiber thrust washers used between the clutch drums are selective thickness and this is used to set the end play in the front group. If the end play is too loose the drums can hammer on the thrust washers and cause them to fail.
Another small fiber thrust washer is located between the input and output shafts and this, too, can fail from too much end play but a bronze replacement for it is available and often used even in stock rebuilds.
Thanks for the comments, so would say in a performance setup the end play should be on the tighter side?
The books I had on hand were the Torqueflite A-727 Transmission Handbook: How To Rebuild or Modify Chrysler A-727 Torqueflite and Jeep Dodge Torqueflite A727 / A904 Transmission Rebuild Repair Manual by ATSG: 1962-2002.
Is there a better manual option?
The FSM for the specific year of your trans is a better manual, the others cover too wide a range.
Thanks John,
Any opinion on planetaries and 4/5 clutch drums ?
The common consensus is that the 4-pinion planetaries are stronger, but the weak point isn't the pinion count, it's the splines in the aluminum front planet carrier. Surprisingly, the 3-pinion front planetary is actually stronger in the spline area than the 4-pinion so don't turn up your nose at the 3-pinion planetaries.
I wouldn't use less that 4 clutch discs in either drum, 5 is OK but not really needed IMO.
Ive got 4 disc setup in the 63 pushbutton. Runs 10.40s at 129mph. Hasnt had a freshen up since 2009.... still going strong.
Thanks guys I appreciate all the great advice. From what I'm gathering, the upgrades are limited , and also limited to how accurately its built. I'm going to be present during the rebuild this winter so I trying to be as knowledgeable as possible for when questions may come up.
The upgrades are limitless really. Its how much do you need vs how much do you want vs how much can you spend. I can build you a 5,000 727 if you want, but do you need it?
Yea I realize that, I think what have setup now should work, I just need to further investigate the failure and then look in more a temp issue. I got a really good book at Carlisle this weekend which had some good insight as well.
another related question I got from the guy I know is about the rear gear ration and tire size. Am I putting to much pressure on the transmission etc. might be a stupid question but all avenues are worth looking at .
If your guy is telling you that your rear gear ratio caused your trans to break, you need a new guy.
kinda thought it was a non issue. I shouldn't be having issues if I'm running 3.23s or 3.55s with 27560r15s
Any preferred source to get parts from? I was leaning towards A&A or Monster.
Ive run 2.76s with a 275/60. I have 5.13s on 32x13.5s on another. 4.10s and a 32x13.5 on another. G60 14s and 3 73s on another. 4.88s an 30x9s on the last. The converter has the potential to cause more issues then the gears.
I have not personally used monster. But have used a&a, cope, and direct from chrysler. Depends on what parts you are looking for.
As of right now I don't think ill need anything more then a good rebuild kit and maybe add a fan to my external cooler and temp gauage. Id like to make other upgrades, but only if itll be truly beneficial.
I'm going to also have to change out the kickdown cable again to the one recommended. A lot of what I have read says to upgrade the planetarys, but if I remember right that was already done.
The converter was B&M Holeshot 2400 Torque Converter is there something better for street performance etc.
thanks
A 2400 should not cause any heat problems. A stock converter behind a mild 440 will flash at that rpm if not higher. Definatly install the gauge and monitor temps since you feel heat has killed them all.
Mopar0166... I know nothing compared to the other posters on here... but my transmission is a 727 behind a 450-500HP 440. It was built by A&A, and I'll never deal with anyone else. They were amazing to deal with and super knowledgeable. I've had zero issues with mine, it shifts awesome, and they only put in performance upgrades where they recommended based on how I told them I was gonna use the car. It is a manual valve body and I have no issues running on the street. Not sure if that helps you any...
Thanks for the input. Its most likely gonna be a winter project for me at this point. I hurt my back three weeks ago so ive been taking it easy.
Or I guess I could just go to mopar get the new 426 hemi and transmission. I'm kinda an old school guy but Id consider that.
Happy Halloween everyone.
So I have been looking into rebuilding my transmission vs buying one from monster or AA. I have not dropped it yet but I'm looking forward to that joy in January. Any recommendations, Ill update this once I have the transmission out and evaluated in January. Merry Christmas everyone. :cheers:
Get a factory service manual and a huge workbench so that you can spread every peice out in order.
Sounds good, my work bench is 16x4 I should be able to spread it out nicely. I still have a sneaky idea that the cause is ether heat or the kickdown linkage/ pressure. I was present during the first reassembly and we tripled checked everything. Had zero issues until this September. Well ill keep y'all updated with pics etc this winter. Merry Christmas everyone. :cheers:
ok, I'm seriously considering getting the monster in a box rebuild kit to start. Its the Dodge 727 SS Monster Transmission Complete Rebuild Kit, and on sale for 567, which would also will allow room in my budget to get additional parts beyond a rebuild kit. Does anyone have an opinion on these, I know chevy guys love them but haven't found any reviews from mopar guys.
Thanks
https://www.monstertransmission.com/Dodge-727-SS-Monster-Transmission-Complete-Rebuild-Kit_p_11984.html#.XCzgizYm5es
On to plan B, I have encountered some serious health issues. So I wont be able to do what I planned, but I guess my thought at this point is to see the cost to have the car taken somewhere for them to rebuild it. Does anyone know what that would cost and any good recommendations in Central NJ.
Thanks
Im back at it, Ive been dealing with treatment for cancer. ill get a few initial pics up during disassembly.
pic1
pic2
pic3
pic4
More about the trans. It was originally a std 1976 passenger transmission that was upgraded by TCI to a super street fighter. It was rebuilt again about three years ago. It started to slip on 1st this fall.
What are the thoughts on upgrading the planterys from 3 pinion to 4; and what upgrades can be done to thrustvwashers. Fiber vs pvc. Roller. The drums I think are fine I have a high flow plum and a good valve body.
Opinion on the front clutch retainer springs I have 9. Book says 12 to 15 for high performance?
The pinion count isn't the weak point of the planetaries, the spline in the aluminum front planet carrier is the weak point and the 3-pinion planetary is actually stronger in that area. Roller thrust bearings are nice but expensive and you'll never see a gain in performance.
The idea of more springs in the front clutch is to prevent excessive overlap on the 2-3 upshift, if you're not experiencing that leave it as is. The burned front clutches suggest maybe you do have overlap problems.
What's a "high flow plum"?
My mistake that was pump. I can take more pics of the internal components tomorrow. Is there any reason the forward thirst washer is call it would fail/melt. What's the best option? I'm kinda thinking I may have kick down issues so I'm looking at options to replace the lokar cable. Not sure if a stock setup would fit on my motor with an eddy intake and holly dp. I really appreciate the input it's going to really help me and I hope others. :cheers:
OK, what's a high flow pump? All 727 pumps flow the same and, yes, your Lokar could be a problem.
So looked over the parts again looks like the front band may have been a bit loose because of the condition of that band and clutches. The reverse/kickdown drum did look worn but the wear on the the band was way uneven. Showing the low reverse drum may be warped. The heat generated by the front drum not catching the band may have melted the thrust washer next to pump. In my novice opinion.
We are going to move forward with another rebuild, and double check tests prior and after install. I did notice the kick down level had no ratio on it, so that will be replaced to ensure we know how tight that band should be beyond fsm. Im told there is a chart for each ratio.
Using the turns out from 72 in. lbs. adjustment procedure:
Lever ratio Turns out
5.0 1 1/2
4.2 1 3/4
3.8 2
3.2 2 1/4
2.9 2 1/2
With the pan off, you can use a 5/16" or 3/8" thick gauge between the lever and the servo plunger to adjust the band.
Thanks John, that's great info.
For my own clarification,
When looking at performance clutches, are they the same for the front and rear drum or are there differences. Reason I ask is, I noticed two different part numbers when looking up parts. one is A-727 Front Clutch red 727-28740 and the other is A-727 Rear Clutch Plate 727-28742.
They are a different thickness, they need to have the correct clearance so the stack height effects this. Apart from the thickness they are the same.
That's for the response, ill have to keep that in mind. I took out 5 in the front and 4 out of the rear drum
Anyone have a suggestion for placement of a transmission temp gauge.
I don't think I wanna cut a hole in the dash, I have my CB under the ash tray. I guess I could mount in under the dash frame.
If you have any ideas please let me know.
Parts have come in , rebuild will begin next week.
Most MVB's don't apply the rear band in 1st gear so the rear band wear I alluded to isn't a problem.
Thanks for the response John.
I'm currently running a Turbo Action Cheetah Manual/Automatic Valve Bodies 17676. I didn't think there was any issues with it.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tac-17676
the low reverse drum why do some have holes and others do not
Balancing, the holes are material removed to balance the drum.
Thanks John,
I was looking through all the manuals I had and could not find any answers. I had to replace the lower reverse drum due to the one I had was junk. I will start posting pics soon of assemble etc.
I guess another good question to ask would be about preinstallation testing and then post installation testing
Id probably start with end play
air tests
then move to pressure testes when installed and then temp
pre-assembly
Ran into a clearance issue, the front drum is suppose to have .082 to .121 clearance from snap ring is that correct and should FSM specs be used in non stock applications.
Determined the input hub was bad as well. Has any rebuilt a cheetah turbo action 17676 valve body? im going to call the manufacture today to hopefully get s specs
There are various thickness snap rings to adjust the clearance. A commonly recommended clearance is .012"-.015" clearance for each friction disc...IOW for a 4-disc drum .048"-.060".
Valve bodies aren't "rebuilt", merely disassemble and clean.
Thanks John I should of clarified more. I meant disassembled and being cleaned. Thing is on this valve body there is two gaskets. I called turbo action with model number but it wasn't enough, I'll need the serial number as well. Also very little info on them available as far as diagrams or torque specs.
I'll be checking clearance and thickness of snap rings tonight again. I saw there was a thicker steel as well to use. Once I have the numbers tonight I'll post them.
with the recommended clearance .012"-.015" clearance for each friction disc...IOW for a 4-disc drum .048"-.060".
whats the best method to take up room? I ordered a thicker snap ring, but it wont be near .60 Currently its around .128" Do I had another steel on top of pressure plate?
What have people done to tighten it up?
Found a couple issues when assembling the drums, had to order new pressure plates and snap rings to make up clearance. Found different size clutches mixed in drums to make clearances etc Steels were all the same.
final assembly is Friday with bench tests, Saturday will be install and op testing. crossing my fingers
Actually, there are different thickness steel plates too. Typically .070" and .090".
Thanks again John, and for your patience.
I have learned even more this time around.
So both the clutch packs are now in good clearance, I had to replace the top pressure plate and use a smaller snap ring to accomplish that. I did have the opportunity to get smaller steels but wanted to try this method first.
It looks good but final assembly is tonight and ill have to keep everyone updated. I think have the issues stem from having to fix all the crap that TCI put in this transmission from the start.
Two more questions.
I'm getting zero line pressure via gauge and use if center test port. I'm running a cheetah vb, could it have the accumulator feed blocked? I'm getting good pressure via the rear test port around 95. Would that be considered to high?
Yes, many aftermarket VB's block the accumulator so there will be no pressure reading there.
John, what is our opinion
Do know where I can find what gap is needed between the kickdown valve an lever inside trans.
It seems like I have a lot of movement on the throttle lever above the shifter lever. I would say its a 1/4" or more of movement from forward to back before u feel it engage on valve.
The gap inside the trans is around .200" so there is a lot of "dead" travel in the lever. Not to worry.
initial testes all passed, drives nicely. ill do a little summary this weekend so other can reference the info in future
Thanks to all the great advice :2thumbs: