I've taken a new direction with the power train for my 70. See the attachment...it's a Gen III :nana:
Once I free this beast from it's current home - I'll have to start the mock up. K-frame will be the biggest challenge.
I would check out the '68 built by Matt Delany... I think your in for a fight as he had to cut and move the firewall back to get it to fit as well as redo the entire front suspension, k-frame and everything else.
I agree with Mike. While it could be a lot of fun, it will be a lot of work. Probably better off findning a modern Hemi for it....
what i heard from the owner of a coronet that did it to his '68, he needed two more inches behind the current firewall... :eek2:
:popcrn:
keep us posted o.k. i'm really curious...
Would be a sweet car when finished!! :yesnod:
was already done on a silver 68 with red stripes and interior as far I can recall now, and is a fact the firewall was modidied
cool!!
COOL! Good luck to you and keep us updated :yesnod:
"modidid"?.. :scratchchin:
Quote"modidid"?
must be one of those new catch-phrases.
seems i remember a red one at SEMA a couple yrs ago too...
so that's a total of three b-bod with the v-10...
oh yeah 'n speaking of "$et Back" :smilielol:
You have any more pictures of that car? I am curious as to the suspension. I don't think I'm going to set mine back like that - too many issues with wipers, a/c, shifter location,etc. I "think"...
I mocked up a tire today - 295/35ZR18. Gotta love mini-tubs. Still have 2" on either side and this is a 12" wide tire. :2thumbs:
I don't like how short the side wall is. :-\ I think I'm gonna look at a 295/45R18 - should give me about 1-1/4" taller side wall.
just took those two. :shruggy:
Nice! Good luck with the transplant and keep us posted...
All this talk about enigne bay room got me thinking about how much room there is under the hood of 3rd gen Charger... :scratchchin:
Quote from: dodgecharger-fan on June 23, 2007, 10:54:06 AM
Nice! Good luck with the transplant and keep us posted...
All this talk about enigne bay room got me thinking about how much room there is under the hood of 3rd gen Charger... :scratchchin:
Move the radiator support forward and youd have plenty. When I was younger we used to keep our beer up there... cops never think to look for it under the hood. :shruggy:
Here's a pic of the suspension of Matt Delaney's 68 Charger. A couple of comments.
First, awesome craftsmanship :2thumbs:.
Second, as with the few v10 swaps I have seen - all seem to be using the Viper version of the V10 and not the SRT-10 Truck version. Two big differences. First, the exhaust manifolds dump out the back on the truck, whereas they dump out sides at a 90 degree angle on the viper. Second, the viper oil pan is deep in the front to about 3/4 of the way back - note how Matt modified the suspension/kframe to clear. On the Truck version, it has a deep sump in the back and is shallow in the front. I believe this will make it much easier to fit either to the existing k-frame (doubtful) or it certainly makes the usage of the Alterkation much easier with perhaps only creating customer motor mounts...
Here is a not-so-good shot of the truck v10 oil pan. My concern now is, doesn't it hang down too low? It's 3" deep in the front and a whopping 10" deep at the sump. I believe a big-block is only 5-6" deep. Could be a real problem mandating customizing the oil pan and pickup...
I think it will be a heck of a job but...when it's done..it'll be one sweet ride.
Good luck!!
So you're using the truck v10? Best of luck and I'm sure that car will be incredible when it's done. :drive:
Yes, the SRT-10 version (Viper motor) - the aluminum 500HP version, not the heavy cast iron verison.
Was able to strip down the SRT-10 a bit. Plan is to remove the rest of the suspension, hack off the back of the frame just pass the transmission cross member and put some 8"x2" casters on it for a rolling engine stand...albeit a Heavy Duty stand ;). I can keep the whole thing running while I sort out other issues. Here is a before and after:
The first roadblock I have encountered is the security system. Everything functions/runs normally. However, I will not be using the steering column which includes the Immobilizer security system for the ignition. I would like to know how to permanently remove/disable the security system and still be able to start the engine. I have the FSM - but it only mentions how to reprogram new fobs and that the Immobilizer and PCM exhange VIN's to validate before starting. I know not all trucks had these (an option) - is there something I can do to remove it, or does it require a reprogram of the PCM?
Here is the offending piece. It has an RF antenna that surrounds the key fob:
Wow! That poor truck is really hammered. :o
Where did that truck come from? THere was one back during the winter down here (North Alabama) that a used car dealer got killed in because he was clowning around in it! IT was black as well.
Life of the truck started in MO, moved to AK were it was wrecked, bought/hauled to OK where I picked it up and now resides in TX :2thumbs: Story has it that some guys girl friend wrecked it :pity: Supposedly no serious injuries...
Quote from: GT on July 05, 2007, 09:37:28 PM
Life of the truck started in MO, moved to AK were it was wrecked, bought/hauled to OK where I picked it up and now resides in TX :2thumbs: Story has it that some guys girl friend wrecked it :pity: Supposedly no serious injuries...
Oh! I bet that played hell on the relationship. :eek2:
should use those seats in the charger 2 :yesnod: very comfy :icon_smile_big:
I plan to use the seats and recover the rear stock charger seats to match.
OK - I found my answer from the good folks from moparts on the SKIM/security stuff.
This place: http://www.bgperformancepcm.com/ can reprogram and disable the SKIM
codes for $230. So - I hope I am set. Gonna give a call in the morning and ship the PCM
off to them.
You're in for alot of work but damn that's gunna be 1 cool ride when its done. Good luck and we sure do love progress pictures!
I have been battling the v10/6spd install for a while now. It's been a ton of work - my hats off to folks that have done it before. Either they are super patient, have a big bank roll, or both. ;)
I kept running into one problem or another and decided that I need to mock up a bunch of stuff. I need to order the radiator and modify/mock up the core support and hood latch.
I had one of two options to get the long v10 to fit. Either hack up and move the firewall back 4-6" which would have removed the possibility of using my a/c & heater core. Second option (which I am using) was to move it as far back as possible and move the radiator in front of the core support. There is room, but I'll need to modify the hood latch support which should be straight forward.
Here are some pics of the progress along with a neat little trick I came up with to help mock up the trans tunnel for clearance. Essentially I cut up 2" wide strips of cardboard and wrapped each around the tranny tightly and taped 'em up. Then I cut it off, tapes it back together and voila! A lot easier and quicker to mock up using a card board dummy vs. the real thing.
Once I marked it up - the sawzall provided the necessary motivation for the next step. ;D Unfortunately, I had to cut out the cross member - so I'll need to mock up a way to reinforce it... Here she is with the motor/tranny dropped in for a clearance check. Other than modifying the transmission tunnel (and not by much) it fits fairly well.
Plenty of side to side clearance - no surprise there. I can still pull the engine back another inch or so - but I'll leave as is to provide space for wiring & such. Not how little clearance there is for the radiator/fan arrangement. As it is now - only 4" of space is available in front of the engine. I can fit in a radiator fine, but not the fan unless I did a pusher fan (which really stink).
Here are some bottom/clearance shots. It tucked up quite nicely - plenty of clearance on the transmission. Believe it or not, the original K-frame does bolt in just fine. The oil pan still concerns me... betting i will need to section out 2". :scratchchin:
I spent a great part of this afternoon mocking up some interior stuff to check on clearances and such. Installed the brake pedal, steering column, A/C-heater box, gas pedal and the seat. Wanted to know how the shifter handle position would work out. I plan to rebuild my existing A/C box. I have a 4-speed pedal setup on order from Keisler - I'll let y'all know how that looks. I will probably just replace the steering column with an after market unit. I see that XV sells a nice looking one... big $ however :'(
I already see that I have a problem with the gas pedal pivot point. I need to figure that one out a bit. Maybe modify the bracket and move it over (not the pedal) 3/4"... that should do it.
The shifter handle is a bit of a reach - to far forward and down. I think an A-body or possibly the short style B-body pistol grip would solve the problem nicely. :cheers:
I wanted to show you how well the stock truck exhaust manifolds are going to work out. That'll save me some big bucks over custom headers. :)
Hard to see it - but there is room for the steering column shaft too.
I think my next step in this affair is to sort out the front suspension - I really want to use the Alterkation...motor mounts are going to be a challenge - I bet the ones on the engine must weigh 10lbs each (cast iron).
Last update for now. Here is a shot of the stock radiator in front of the engine. First, this 26" 3-core radiator won't work, and secondly, it would never cool the v10 anyway. I've been looking at some dual 1" core aluminum radiators... I'll be ordering one of those next for mock up. I also have to contend with the fan and the a/c condensor too. It never ends I tell ya.
It is much better to mock this up than to guess, paint, and then have to modify and jack up the paint job... but that means building parts of the car twice...
Dude this is an awesome project that you have going! :o Keep posting more pics and updates on this build up!
Are you going to use the original K-frame and modify it or will you get an aftermarket one?
Keep us posted on this awesome 70 Charger!!! :popcrn:
Quote from: GT on October 14, 2007, 07:03:14 PM
It is much better to mock this up than to guess, paint, and then have to modify and jack up the paint job... but that means building parts of the car twice...
Doesn't building it twice mean twice the fun? :yesnod:
That thing is gonna ROCK when its done!!! Vintage Dodge and modern Dodge...best of both worlds! :2thumbs: :drool5:
Quote from: Blakcharger440 on October 14, 2007, 07:09:13 PM
Dude this is an awesome project that you have going! :o Keep posting more pics and updates on this build up!
Are you going to use the original K-frame and modify it or will you get an aftermarket one?
I'd like to use the Alterkation - there is no way the stock power steering box is going to fit. The exhaust manifold and motor mounts are in the way. I'll put the Kframe on and snap some pics to show everyone. I have seen some rack and pinion setups that bolt to the stock k-frame... those seem to be cheesy (but cheaper) as compared to the alterkation. Besides, taking the t-bars out of the pic will give me more space for the exhaust and take some load off the frame where I had to cut the transmission mount... options options :)
Damn Dude, your hammering with this... way to go! :2thumbs:
Man! nice work. :2thumbs:
You're nutz man....this is gonna be insane when it's done! :cheers:
:drool5: :drool5: :drool5:
Pretty Cool... :2thumbs:
Man, this project looks fun! :cheers:
I'm surprised there's as much stuff lining up nicely as there is, judging from previous V-10 swaps where the moved the firewall back & such.
Looking forward to updates. :2thumbs:
Quote from: CHARGER_FAN on October 15, 2007, 02:14:49 PM
Man, this project looks fun! :cheers:
I'm surprised there's as much stuff lining up nicely as there is, judging from previous V-10 swaps where the moved the firewall back & such.
Looking forward to updates. :2thumbs:
:iagree: :2thumbs: :coolgleamA:
Friggin awesome. Keep those pics coming. :2thumbs:
That is amazing job so far and still more in front of you. :2thumbs:
I think that we are all waiting to see it done! :yesnod:
the charger GTS, silver one from a few years ago, put the rad in front of the crossmember...could you do that?
things are looking great... ever thought about split twin radiators, or just making the radiator sit low and wide? cutting out the core support wider to support that and then having the intake run in between? I know its really outside the box, but hey, its just a suggestion.
sorry about the crude drawing.
That's an interesting idea RD... :yesnod:
I am a bit worried about being able to cool the V10 with split radiators like that. Pusher fans work - but are much less efficient.
I'll probably put the radiator in front of the member as suggested about (like Matt's Silver charger).
Split radiator - Not so good... very custom- big $$$. :rotz:
[I'd like to use the Alterkation - there is no way the stock power steering box is going to fit. The exhaust manifold and motor mounts are in the way. I'll put the Kframe on and snap some pics to show everyone. I have seen some rack and pinion setups that bolt to the stock k-frame... those seem to be cheesy (but cheaper) as compared to the alterkation. Besides, taking the t-bars out of the pic will give me more space for the exhaust and take some load off the frame where I had to cut the transmission mount... options options :)
Quote
Hey I would really think twice about using one of those rack systems that bolt to the stock K-frame as I have heard nothing but problems concerning that type of setup so far...with a certain particular company that is.
awesome :2thumbs:
As promised, here are some pics with the original K-frame installed. There is pleny of room around the motor - anywhere from 1/2" up. What I found amazing was how close the motor mounts are. I also noticed that I can relocate the motor mounts on the V10 - there are two locations. :2thumbs: I can only assume the Viper had the motor mounts in the front position - about 5" forward. If I use those locations, the fabbing of the motor mounts becomes quite simple. In the pics, the mounts are located in the back position as on the SRT-10 truck.
Oh yeah - no way will the power steering box fit - hits the mounts (in current position) as well as the exhaust manifold (close). Also, the center link would most certainly go through where the oil pan is...
Couple more shots - note the bolt hole for the forward position of the motor mounts on the block...
Looks like the oil pan hangs down about 4-4.5"... hmmm... :-\
Do you have a further away shot of how far the pan hangs down past the K-frame? The shots you posted dont "look" that bad...
WOW!!!!! :popcrn:
to quote clark wilhelm griswald"nothing worth while is easy"
besides when you blow away some punk in his ricer at the lights,the smile will be priceless,for everything else there is mastercard!
:2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Well it's been almost a month - had to take 2 week business trip which put a cramp on the hobby (hey - have to pay for the parts right?) :yesnod:
Received in the Kiesler 4 speed pedal kit and went ahead and restored/converted the assembly. I painted it all black (instead of natural finish on the brackets) for maintainability vs. correctness. Btw, the Kiesler kit arrived FAST and it is a quality kit. :2thumbs: Really liked the needle bearing assembly on the clutch pedal. Here are some before/during/after shots:
Also made a bunch of calls and sorted out the radiator deal. I ordered a FSR radiator - Aluminum Dual 1" cores that is 19"x31". It's a called a chevy radiator due to the location of the inlets and outlets (Good for me - Chevy parts are cheaper). It is a triple pass unit and they custom welded on 2" inlets and outlets for the V10. Should due nicely. They charged me the standard rate - not bad for ~$250 delivered. Bryan Snyder at Bryke Racing was awesome to work with (www.bryke.com).
Also picked up a SPAL 16" fan with the wiring harness and thermostat. All-in-all, I spent ~$400 for the entire setup that I pieced together off of ebay with New parts! Gotta love it! :2thumbs:
Spent some time yesterday fitting it and modifying the radiator support a bit to clear the tubes. Still need some work - but I'll wait until the lower XV Radiator support bracket comes in. As you can see - I had to mount it in front of the radiator support for clearance for the fan / v10. I will need to install the A/C condensor in front of it and the power steering cooler then modify the hood latch support for clearance (next week's project :)).
keep up the great work!!!!!
Very Nice! Keep up the great work as this is very interesting!
Awesome project! My hats off to you. :cheers:
What an interesting project. Keep us posted.
It's been a few months since my last update. This part is going slow with all the mock ups & tear downs
Been focusing on installing the shock tower and lower radiator supports from XV Motorsports. Also had to wait for the Alterkation to be built.
Here I hacked off / spot drilled out the old lower radiator support and installed the new. Pretty easy - took about an hour. It is amazing how flimsy the stock unit is. :eek2:
And a couple shots of the XV Motorsports shock tower reinforcements. Took a lot of grinding to get a good fit. Also had to deal with were the parking brake bolts were. Considerable welding - took probably 4 hrs in total.
Now the fun part. I've started mocking up the alterkation. Here are some shots of just the K-frame and rack. I tell 'ya what - the Alterkation is a quality unit. Beautiful welds with excellent fit.
And with the V10 installed - which meant removing and installing the Alterkation... again... :-\
Plenty of clearance around the oil pan and rack. As suspected, the oil pan hangs about 3-1/2" below the bottom of the Kframe. I'll deal with that later. I'll spend the next couple of weekends fabbing up the motor mounts, tranny mount, and the Flaming River steering column with 3-ujoint connector.
G...my hats off to ya. allot of these guys on this board will cringe at the thought of "modifying" a charger. good luck looks great shoot me a email if you need any help with the wiring... Pete
The pan doesn't look "too" low.....especially in the front on shot. Ive seen Milodon pans that hung lower (although they don't survive long on my crappy NYC streets)
It's been a few months, time for a quick update and a few pics :icon_smile_big:
The engine and tranny placement are done. Finished the custom engine and tranny mounts as well. It's all be test fitted along with the flaming river steering column and 3 U-joint linkage... that was fun ::)
It's getting real expensive now - major $ at this point. I need to obtain the rear end, wheels and tires. Decided to go with 335/30ZR-18's in the back that measure about 13.5" across, and 345/40SR-18's in the front (Picked up the 4 from The Tirerack for about $1,000 shipped) :2thumbs:
Here is what was delivered yesterday:
Next is to order the rear end, leaf springs and wheels. I'll be running a Dana 60 with most like 4:10's and 13" disks. The wheel selection has been agonizing - trying to find a decent looking non-ricer wheel that is 12" in width and doesn't look like every other wheel out there. With 18" rims, finding a 12" width is a real challenge. Selection is mostly limited to 2 or 3 piece forged wheels $$$$. Brand/Style really don't matter, they all cost about the same. In order to avoid the rubber band effect with these tires (~4" side wall), I decided to use a black rim/barrel and a silver center. It should give the tire a wider look to the sidewall. I plan to have a 4" backspace for the deep dish muscle car look. My top choice is this one from Forgeline.
doing some real good work there Dude :2thumbs: keep the pictures coming :popcrn:
Quote from: autodynamics on February 03, 2008, 06:06:46 PM
G...my hats off to ya. allot of these guys on this board will cringe at the thought of "modifying" a charger. good luck looks great shoot me a email if you need any help with the wiring... Pete
Modified chargers RULE!!!
this car is gonna be wicked. Hats off to you for sure. Keep us updated!
My god.
This is probably one of the coolest projects I've seen. Great job so far! The finished product will be freaking awesome!
:popcrn: :drool5: :yesnod:
this is a favorite.... thanks so much!
i agree, it's gonna be an awesome car!!
trav
Quote from: dpm68 on April 29, 2008, 09:29:20 PM
My god.
No kidding.. :o
Can you get the kelsey hayes recall wheels in 18's?
WOW :2thumbs: and at one point i was thinking of a V10 from a truck. naaa, i'll stick to a BB.
i thought my credit card bill was huge! :2thumbs:
Thanks for the update! I like those rims! :thumbs:
QuoteThanks for the update! I like those rims!
Mee too :2thumbs:
I am going with the same size rear. It is tubbed towards the framerail, right?
Looks Great :drool5:
The Forgeline's are a good choice have deal with them before and they are a good company
for custom wheels.
Lookin' Fine! it's great to actually see a guy doing this much work to his ride, and still have the time to keep us updated!
Lookin' good :2thumbs: ! Can't wait to see more progress!
WOW !
Have not seen this thread before, great work :drool5:
Keep up the good work..
Made significant progress this weekend. :icon_smile_cool: Finished the transmission tunnel (tacked it in - needs to be fully welded/etc. still):
Mocked up everything... Again :eek2: I think this is the 5th time... lost track.
Here is a pic with the engine/tranny installed using the motor and transmission mounts I made.
You can see that there is plenty of clearance now. The transmission tunnel was raised 2" in the front and 1" in the back.
Here are some pics of the finished steering column u-joints. Spent significant time on this :brickwall: - key was to use wooden dowels during mock-up. Made like 5 different versions before I got the angles and clearance correct. Ugh!
OK, so here is what I was after all along with this install. Most E-body and B-body installs I have seen highly modify the firewall or end up taking out the A/C unit and/or wipers. Since I want to drive this beast and enjoy it in the Texas heat... I wanted for everything to be functional. Here, I've mocked up the A/C unit - it has a little more than 1/4" clearance above the tunnel - just thick enough for carpet. I also mocked up the flaming river steering column :drool5: as well as the Kiesler 4 speed pedals.
Obvious the shifter is a tad high from the truck. :hah: Kinda cool in a wierd way - like riding a chopper with ape-hangers... Plan to replace the shifter with a pistol grip anyway...
I noticed that the original A/C tubes are in a tight spot under the hood - since I'll need to change the ends anyway, I'll have to figure out an arrangement to clear the fuel rail.
Here a couple of pics with the SRT-10 seats from the truck. They are kind of tall - not sure if I like them yet. Plan to use the 6-way power seat rack as well, but it will require quite a bit of modification to shorten the height more. That will be my next weekend project. :cheers:
why keisler 4 speed and not viper 6 speed?
Sorry - I am using the Viper T56 Six Speed. I bought the Kiesler 4 speed pedals to use.
GT, your work is remarkable! It's awesome how you're making the V10 setup work, and the engineering you've devoted to the project is amazing. I figured the car would have to be all hacked up to get that thing in there but the modifications you've done to the body are minimal. Very smooth. That steering shaft setup is CRUCIAL! I can't wait for the finished product!
Yeah, this is a true work of ART....
U have a huge load of patience that's for sure... :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
I love GT updates... :drool5: :drool5: :drool5:
It's been another month. Lots of progress on little things. Spent a HUGE amount of time placing the orders for the wheels, brakes, console bits and pieces, as well as engineering out some pieces (watts link, air intake tube modeling, etc.). It'll be 3-4 more weeks to the "good" stuff gets here. :icon_smile_big:
I started off taking care of some nagging tool issues. The job goes much better with the right tools. I broke down and ordered a sandblaster (some assembly required :flame:) and glass beads/walnut shells. Mine life is good - don't know how I lived without this. Started off by putzing around with the interior a/c unit. I'll slowly rebuild it as I have time or when the weather is bad.
I was going to buy a new a/c evaporator - but wow - it cleaned up nice!
Then I fixed another PITA tools problem. I had an el-cheapo powder coat gun and a home oven for curing - but I didn't have a proper place to spray. The powder goes everywhere is is unhealth. Fixed that with a few 2x4's and some left over press board. Built a quick rack system to make things easier for transfering from the booth to the oven. The filter is one of those fine/cotton types that does a great job trapping all of the left over powder. Best of all - this cost me like $20 including the fan and filter. :2thumbs:
So I threw in the control arms from the Alterkation and baked 'em up. Turned out nice. I think I have maybe $100-$120 in the whole rig (booth, double oven, gun, supplies).
On to the next challenge. I new I had to deal with the viper oil cooler. Since it is cramped under the hood - decided to hang it under the passenger fender. This required some holes. A buddy let me borrow a hydralic Greenlee whole punch :2thumbs: All that remains is to fab up the oil cooler lines from braded hose. I have the materials, but I'll wait to later down the road to do that project.
While I don't show it hear - I mocked up the front end to ensure that clearance wouldn't be an issue...
It's the little stuff that is killing me... :eek2:
Finally figured out what to do with the air intake tubes / cleaner. I'm going to mount them under the fenders as well to pull cool air. I went with 3" tubes and had a devil of a time figuring out the compound angles and welding it up. I'm about 75% done with it at this point - called it quits for the night after spending 5 freaking hours on it. :brickwall: And that is what is lovely about our hobby... just walk away for a bit.
More pics of the tube. After first mock up - I determined I had to add about a 1" lip to ensure proper sealing.
The tubes had to bend down, back, and have as tight as radius as possible yet clear the radiator, fan and water outlet house. Oh yeah - they had to be symetrical as well. I am sure I'll have nightmares about this for a while... quite possibly the hardest fabbing I have had to do yet.
Until next month!
Amazing ability and craftsmanship. Thanks for the updates, really enjoy them.
Keep up the GREAT work!
Peace,
Neal J.
more cleaver fabrication stuff ... awesome stuff ................................. :popcrn:
Ingenuity and perseverance :cheers:
Gonna be a killer ride. Good luck on the build.
Roy
NICE! :2thumbs:
Wow :o
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: As Usual...
Quote from: PocketThunder on May 05, 2008, 10:41:55 PM
I love GT updates... :drool5: :drool5: :drool5:
:iagree: :notworthy:
Lookin' good :yesnod:
:o I love this car!!!
i have learned so much from your trial and error... the knowledge learned is definitely not in vain... thanks.
It's been a while - so here is a little eye candy. I have more pics/updates I'll post a little later.
Big news is, the wheels arrived. I had the mounted and I am in the process of mocking them.
Once finished, I'll have the width of the Dana 60 needed.
These are Forgelines ZX3P 3 piece wheels. Centers are Titanium powder coated, the inners/outers are satin black.
They have the maximum "dish" allowed on these wheels. They are 18x12's rear and 18x8's in the front - around 5.2" BS
I had to go up to 18" to get the desired width (335's rear, 255's front). But I *hate* that rubber band look. Muscle cars shouldn't have that IMHO.
So I choose the satin black outer/inners to match the tires and give it a wider sidewall look. Adds a good 1" to the look of the sidewall.
I think it worked out well! This is so exciting - I've been dreaming about new wheels for 10 yrs, planning and shopping for 3, and had to wait 2 months for these to be custom made.
I'll need to cut the fender lip and roll it a bit so that I can push the wheel out father to the outside edge - it'll look better that way.
Enjoy:
More...
Just curious.. if you wanted the width but didn't want the 18" rim, why didn't you pick up a set of Mickey SR's or something similar? Was it just that one style tire that sparked your interest :scratchchin:
What is the actual mounted width of the new ones, have you measured them yet? Again, just curious ;D
nice!!!
Need 18" rims to clear the 14" disk brakes. Only thing I didn't want is the rubber band look.
Roger that sir... them 14" disc's will require some clearance :yesnod:
Wicked looking rims. :2thumbs:
:2thumbs:
:popcrn:
:scratchchin: i remember when you first posted your intrest in this project, and I thought oh boy another kids gonna hack up a perfectly decent Charger and make a total hash of it... :lol:
:2thumbs:
Updates GT? :popcrn: :popcrn:
your a freakin jeanious! :2thumbs: :cheers:
Oh my God ! This car is KICK-ASS Awesome ! Totally MONDO dude ! Right on !!! YES !!! :2thumbs: :cheers: :laugh:
This is an awsome thread man, thanks for all the pics. keep them coming.
No real update folks. I did order and receive all of my Autometer guages - need to figure out how to install in the dash in a manner that looks good. I'll post some pics of that when the time comes.
My current frustration is getting parts. :RantExplode: I've been waiting on my Wilwood brakes for 19 weeks and Moser 60 for 7 weeks. *Just* received a phone call minutes ago about an update - typical vendor mis-fires (shipped my stuff to the wrong person, Moser lost the PO, etc.). Guess I am too patient. ::) The rear should be hear ~Oct 22nd and the brakes end of the month... wish me luck.
I did finish modifying the inner wheel wells so I can run a ride height of ~5" and still have ~4" of suspension compression/travel. If all goes well, I can have Project "Hiss" down on the ground for final mockup by the end of Nov. Then it's tear down and final body work / paint.
what happened to all the tranny mock up pics i was checking out yesterday?.. :shruggy: did you delete a bunch of your posts GT?..
Nope - all the posts are there - I just looked. Might be an issue on your end?
Btw, I am building a web page to host ALL of my pics / build info, etc. It's going to take a while.
There is just a little bit of early history there and a frame work - in serious construction (only played with it for a few hours).
Hardly any pics just yet...
See: v10mopar.com (http://v10mopar.com)
Looks like a good start to the website GT. Can't wait to see more of the project.
I love your work ! I was offered a Viper engine and trans cheap and thinking about installing it in my Daytona clone . I like the fact you did not move the engine back , were you ever concerned about having the CG to far forward ? Could it be a handling issue ? What is the weight of a alum v-10 vs old school hemi ?
Larry
Awesome project the best on this site, I always love seeing updates
QuoteWhat is the weight of a alum v-10 vs old school hemi ?
don´t know the numbers Larry, but cast iron Hemi block is 309 lbs ( bare) and same block aluminum is 142 lbs, so i am sure a aluminum Viper motor is much lighter than oldschool hemi!!
Rolf
BTW: how did your boatrace season work out??
Man just cought up Man this is a sick car, I had thought about a v-10 but the budget is way out of my reach.
You go GT, keep up the great work!! :2thumbs:
No racing this year , to be honest I have a better time just using my Race boat as a pleasure boat !!! There is something about kicking the snot out of guy who thinks he got a fast boat . Thanks for asking !
Larry
Quotekicking the snot out of guy who thinks he got a fast boat
I love that too!! I had to stop racing 3 years ago, ( raced UIM formula 1 tunnels)when i broke my back in 2 places :shruggy:
Now a byddy of mine and me has a 25 foot V bottom, with twin 2,5 efi drag motors, with brucato ECU´s (98mph) FUN :D
Running a 32 Skater with 2-300 Opti's
Quote from: GT on October 15, 2008, 08:40:47 PM
Nope - all the posts are there - I just looked. Might be an issue on your end?
Btw, I am building a web page to host ALL of my pics / build info, etc. It's going to take a while.
There is just a little bit of early history there and a frame work - in serious construction (only played with it for a few hours).
Hardly any pics just yet...
See: v10mopar.com (http://v10mopar.com)
I just read thru your stories and that was great! :2thumbs:
Quote from: PocketThunder on October 22, 2008, 11:29:15 AM
Quote from: GT on October 15, 2008, 08:40:47 PM
Nope - all the posts are there - I just looked. Might be an issue on your end?
Btw, I am building a web page to host ALL of my pics / build info, etc. It's going to take a while.
There is just a little bit of early history there and a frame work - in serious construction (only played with it for a few hours).
Hardly any pics just yet...
See: v10mopar.com (http://v10mopar.com)
I just read thru your stories and that was great! :2thumbs:
:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: another missouri mopar guy
Quote from: moparstuart on October 22, 2008, 12:16:04 PM
Quote from: PocketThunder on October 22, 2008, 11:29:15 AM
Quote from: GT on October 15, 2008, 08:40:47 PM
Nope - all the posts are there - I just looked. Might be an issue on your end?
Btw, I am building a web page to host ALL of my pics / build info, etc. It's going to take a while.
There is just a little bit of early history there and a frame work - in serious construction (only played with it for a few hours).
Hardly any pics just yet...
See: v10mopar.com (http://v10mopar.com)
I just read thru your stories and that was great! :2thumbs:
:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: another missouri mopar guy
You might have enough guys to start your own Missouri Mafia! :lol:
What are you trying to say ?
Larry
Quote from: PocketThunder on October 22, 2008, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: moparstuart on October 22, 2008, 12:16:04 PM
Quote from: PocketThunder on October 22, 2008, 11:29:15 AM
Quote from: GT on October 15, 2008, 08:40:47 PM
Nope - all the posts are there - I just looked. Might be an issue on your end?
Btw, I am building a web page to host ALL of my pics / build info, etc. It's going to take a while.
There is just a little bit of early history there and a frame work - in serious construction (only played with it for a few hours).
Hardly any pics just yet...
See: v10mopar.com (http://v10mopar.com)
I just read thru your stories and that was great! :2thumbs:
:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: another missouri mopar guy
You might have enough guys to start your own Missouri Mafia! :lol:
wow i live in kansas , and work and own a buisness in missouri I could have duel memberships :smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol:
Good news and bad news. The Moser 60 finally arrived and looks sweat. Still no brakes (23 weeks and counting).
Although hard to tell from the pics, it's about 4" narrower than the stock rear end. 35 Spline axles, Truetrac, 3.73 ratio, The big Ford Torino ends, Billet yoke, and the support cover. Should be able to handle anything the v10 throws at it :2thumbs:
I threw the rear under the car and bolted on the rear wheels - clearanced all check out *whew*. I have an inch of clearance between the side walls and the outer quarter lip. No problem :coolgleamA:
On the side shot of the car/wheel - this is at ride height (I may not go that low) and the tire has clearance for 3-4" of upwards travel without hitting.
Gave my wife a scare - she thought I was importing drugs from Peru when this package arrived. These are my hand carved maple pistol grip handles stained plum crazy purple. Domingo made these for me... a work of art: :cheers:
:2thumbs: :coolgleamA: :cheers: looks great :o
Quote from: knitz01 on November 12, 2008, 09:10:43 AM
:2thumbs: :coolgleamA: :cheers: looks great :o
:yesnod: :drool5: :drool5:
Quote from: GT on November 11, 2008, 10:49:07 PM
Gave my wife a scare - she thought I was importing drugs from Peru when this package arrived. These are my hand carved maple pistol grip handles stained plum crazy purple. Domingo made these for me... a work of art: :cheers:
I Just got my lime green grips also from domingo , they are awesome . love your purple ones also !! :Twocents:
Just curious - What are the "Torino ends" on the new Moser D/60 axle?
Is that talking about a bearings?
Is that talking about the bolt pattern on the flange itself (brakes)?
I have never seen this thread before, but now I AM AMAZED!!!! :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: This is AWESOME!!! You are a truly amazing mopar man!! This would be so awesome to do, but I would never be able to afford it. :coolgleamA: :coolgleamA: :coolgleamA: :coolgleamA:
On the Torino (e.g. Big Ford ends) both the housing ends and the bearings are different. The housing ends are 4 bolt vs. mopars 5 bolt. There is no end play adjustment. The bearings are a sealed bearing vs. the open tapered mopar bearing. These are quite a bit larger than the mopar bearings, and IMHO, significant stronger than those or the green bearings. If you are going to build a new axle, this is *the* way to go. Makes for more aftermarket brake options available. In my case, it will make it extremely easy to add on the Wilwood caliper adapters. Here are some pics (note the size of the 35 Spline axles vs. the original 8-3/4 stock ones). :2thumbs:
Got my pistol grip today also :2thumbs:
I am here in the US, so i havent seen it, but my wife says it looks great!!
Quote from: suntech on November 13, 2008, 10:15:52 PM
Got my pistol grip today also :2thumbs:
I am here in the US, so i havent seen it, but my wife says it looks great!!
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
any updates?
dude where the vids? :shruggy: :popcrn:
After 26 weeks, the brakes *Finally* arrived :icon_smile_big:
These are two piece 14" Wilwoods (cross drilled & slotted), 6 Piston calipers up front, and 4 piston in the rear. The rears have integrated parking brakes. The master cylinder, proportioning valve & braided brake lines should be here end of this week.
Now that I have these puppies in my hands, the final mockup and ride height settings can be done. I should have that completed by the end the month.
Here are a few pics to enjoy. I tossed one shot of the fronts next to a full sized fender guitar for size comparison ;)
I put some more up when I get into the mock up process...
Definately "Some Assembly Required" 12 bolts/washers to attach a rotor to a hat. I still need to torque them and add safety wire to each bolt (done in pairs)... that should be fun :eek2:
Here are shots of the back of the fronts and backs, as well as a better shot of the rear parking brake mechanism:
dam now thats some braking power , should slow that beast and the v10 well. :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
How about a picture of your '68 Imperial? :drool5:
This is a pretty major milestone on the project. First full mockup of the drive train, brakes, wheels and suspension. I've ran into a couple of problems so far:
1) Rear rotors won't fully seat on axles (shoulders on axle studs is to wide at bottom). I'll have to machine the rotors
2) Wilwood dust caps stick up about 1/16" to high - preventing full seating of the Forgeline center caps...
3) Can't get the ride height low enough in the rear... Think I'm going to have to dump the leaf springs...
Here are pics of the rear installed with the brakes, tires, and Hypercoil springs. I actually installed the springs in the lowest setting then rested the ends inside the frame rails on the trunk floor. Even with 250lbs of weight, I still need it lowered another 3". Don't think that even lowering blocks can help *that* much, and I don't want to use them. Might be time to step up to a 4 link and coilovers in the rear. Hmmm....
Next, I reinstalled the Alterkation front end and engine... again... :eek2:
Droping the car down over it sure makes it easy - actually had the engine reinstalled in under 30 min. :2thumbs:
Here are the 14" Wilwoods installed and shots with the wheels on.
Finally, a few pics with the car having full weight on the suspension. Next, I plan to temporarily install the doors and fenders and then lower the front down another 2" to the desired height. The rear, I'll deal with later...need to think about it a bit longer.
looking good!
NICE! :2thumbs:
Looking good :2thumbs:
clever stuff :yesnod: .......... nice work :popcrn:
That is some VERY nice handy work!
"You've got the skillz to pay the billz" :2thumbs:
For the rear, how about a Watt's Linkage? :shruggy: :shruggy:
It's adjustable, and a lot of pro-touring cars in magazines use them. Good for road racing, bad for drag racing though. :eek2:
I still must say, YOU CAR IS MY FAVORITE!!! :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5:
She sure is coming along nice... those wheels look bitchen! :yesnod: and I'd like to see your Imperial too.. :icon_smile_wink:
QuoteGood for road racing, bad for drag racing though.
What is bad with Wattslink for drag racing ?????? Explain please :shruggy:
Quote from: suntech on December 26, 2008, 12:06:27 PM
QuoteGood for road racing, bad for drag racing though.
What is bad with Wattslink for drag racing ?????? Explain please :shruggy:
That is what they said in PHR. ???
The wattslink is to hold the rearend sideways, and just that! A wattslink will hold it in the center of the car, on the entire spring travel. That is a good thing, regardless of what you do. You can also design it in a way that you can adjust the roll center, to fine tune it for your car/application. A panhard bar makes the axle turn around a radius (panhard bar length) around the tie in point in the car. Because of this, you would need more room for sideways wheel travel, in the wheelwells. For a car with short suspention travel, like a drag car, it is ok, and easy to set up, but IMO a nice wattslink setup will always be superior to anything else. The only downside with a conventional watts setup, is exhaust routing, since it requires some room, and on one of the sides the bar will be quite high up, and make exhaust routing a bitch on that side. :Twocents:
And....GT will have wattslink on this great ride :2thumbs:
Quote from: suntech on December 26, 2008, 12:47:05 PM
The wattslink is to hold the rearend sideways, and just that! A wattslink will hold it in the center of the car, on the entire spring travel. That is a good thing, regardless of what you do. You can also design t in a way that you can adjust the roll center, to fine tune it for your car/application. A panhard bar makes the axle turn around a radius (panhard bar length) around the tie in point in the car. Because of this, you would need more room for sideways wheel travel, in the wheelwells. For a car with short suspention travel, like a drag car, it is ok, and easy to set up, but IMO a nice wattslink setup will always be superior to anything else. The only downside with a conventional watts setup, is exhaust routing, since it requires some room, and on one of the sides the bar will be quite high up, and make exhaust routing a bitch on that side. :Twocents:
And....GT will have wattslink on this great ride :2thumbs:
Are Watts Link's ever used with Caltracs? :shruggy:
Just curious. :2thumbs:
well......... yes and no, because when you use leaf springs, you would normally rely on the sideways stability they give, and thay are actually holding the axle in place (sort of) !! on a paralell 3 or 4 link setup you NEED something to hold the axle, sideways, unless you use a 4 link setup, with upper (or lower) linkage arms are on an angle towards middle of the car (also kalled K link). :2thumbs:
Quote from: suntech on December 26, 2008, 01:07:47 PM
well......... yes and no, because when you use leaf springs, you would normally rely on the sideways stability they give, and thay are actually holding the axle in place (sort of) !! on a paralell 3 or 4 link setup you NEED something to hold the axle, sideways, unless you use a 4 link setup, with upper (or lower) linkage arms are on an angle towards middle of the car (also kalled K link). :2thumbs:
Thanks! :yesnod:
The rear suspension on the car I plan to build will have +1 inch Caltracs, and (possibly) a Watts Linkage. :coolgleamA: :coolgleamA:
Sweet stance, and a great setup for racing and cruising. :yesnod:
I am just curious on if a Watts setup would be worth the work? :shruggy:
Everything is about is it worth it to YOU!!!
With watts link to can go closer to the wheel wells with your tires, without worrying about rubbing.
The Cal tracks does nothing else than holding the pinion angle in the right place, under both acceleration and braking. The leaf springs are holding the axle sideways, but it does flex some, hence the need for more tire clearance. A good watts link setup does not flex, and keeps the axle in dead center, on the entire suspention travel.
Since you are young, and dont have the car yet, you have plenty of time to figure out what is the best for you :2thumbs:
when this is finally finished we all need a quarter mile and burnout video
Sweet, Very nice work.
You're going to have one unique automobile on your hands when it's done. Hold on tight :drive: Ted
I bit of an update. I was able to resolve my rear disk and front center cap problems easily enough. I put on the right fender/door to get a feel for the ride height and lowered the front end more. I think it needs to go about an inch lower in the front and another 2-2.5" in the rear...
I was originally going to use leafs and a watts-link... but my current springs won't work. So I either need to get new ones with a flat arch, or go with a 4-link and ditch the watts-link (won't be needed since it will be a triangulated 4-link)... debating time & money right now... I will get significantly more adjustability out of a 4-link... But if I go with leafs now, it is cheaper and I can start moving forward on body work...
I'm going to load about 5-600lbs in the car and let it sit for a week or two to see if the springs settle at all... it is a foregone conclusion that something has to change in the rear.
That Charger is gonna be BAD!!
Coming along great GT. :2thumbs: Agree that it could be a little tiny bit lower, but not much!!!
Sweet stance! :drool5:
Hey, you got some rust on that fender! :nana:
Oh, wow, that is nice. :drool5:
The front looks fine to me, I agree that the rear needs some more lowering to get the wheelwells filled a little more like the front of the car.
But tell me can you ever stop looking at that beast?.... I think I would dragg my sofa into the garage and rather watch that car all night instead of my tv....
Awesome build :2thumbs:
Looking better
Looking for some inspiration ?
Check out this monster :drool5:
http://1970chargerregistry.com/70messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=5987
Quote from: Red440 on February 03, 2009, 06:17:39 AM
Looking for some inspiration ?
Check out this monster :drool5:
http://1970chargerregistry.com/70messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=5987
I guess I am not used to seeing oil filters hanging that low. I suppose that the K member is lower, but man those look awfully close to being the fist thing to hitting the asphalt.
Quote from: Red440 on February 03, 2009, 06:17:39 AM
Looking for some inspiration ?
Check out this monster :drool5:
http://1970chargerregistry.com/70messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=5987
OH MY GOD. THAT IS AMAZING!! :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5:
Wish I could read the articles about it. :brickwall:
Anybody got a spare V10 lying around? :D
In the article pictures, it looks like it has a black hood, but in the other pics doesnt? :shruggy:
Quite impressive work. And I agree with the statement about the oil filter and radiator. Those things look dangerously low.
However, NOT a fan of the modern dashboard stuffed into that car. :eek2:
Quote from: Red440 on February 03, 2009, 06:17:39 AM
Looking for some inspiration ?
Check out this monster :drool5:
http://1970chargerregistry.com/70messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=5987
thats some nice work also :yesnod:
Quote from: GT on January 02, 2009, 06:22:51 PM
I bit of an update. I was able to resolve my rear disk and front center cap problems easily enough. I put on the right fender/door to get a feel for the ride height and lowered the front end more. I think it needs to go about an inch lower in the front and another 2-2.5" in the rear...
I was originally going to use leafs and a watts-link... but my current springs won't work. So I either need to get new ones with a flat arch, or go with a 4-link and ditch the watts-link (won't be needed since it will be a triangulated 4-link)... debating time & money right now... I will get significantly more adjustability out of a 4-link... But if I go with leafs now, it is cheaper and I can start moving forward on body work...
I'm going to load about 5-600lbs in the car and let it sit for a week or two to see if the springs settle at all... it is a foregone conclusion that something has to change in the rear.
keep up the awesome work Dude ..looking forward to seeing more pictures :popcrn:
I've got that magazine, I might be able to translate some of the text later on, if I'm not busy.
Quote from: bakerhillpins on February 03, 2009, 08:08:58 AM
Quite impressive work. And I agree with the statement about the oil filter and radiator. Those things look dangerously low.
However, NOT a fan of the modern dashboard stuffed into that car. :eek2:
Yes i agree, quite impressive, but i also agree that the dash is out of place.
The oil filters look like tow-maters teeth hanging out in front. Maybe they could have been relocated inside the fenders?...??
Nice work on moving the brake booster forward where the battery goes. :scope:
These pic`s were taken sometime last year, and during the winter the owner has taken the car back apart and made it ready for final assembly. What you see here is just the mockup :cheers:
OK, back on track. I have the rear end sorted out now. I went ahead and went with the RMS Street-Lynx. A Triangulated 4-link. Very nice system, and reasonable cost. Very well engineered out. Like the Alterkation front end, I was surprised by how beefy it was and the quality of the welds. However, some assembly required:
overall opinion of RMS Street Lynx system ? I have been strongly debating that set up for my Charger - I'm going to run my existing leaf springs for now to see how the car handles - but any opinion will be appreciated! :2thumbs:
:popcrn:
Basically had to weld in the coilover support member which was extremely easy to align and setup (trivial), weld on the tabs to the rear end for the upper links, and weld on the spring perches. The key was very careful measuring. I spent 2 days aligning, realigning, measuring, etc. over and over and over to make sure it was right. Pinion angle, wheel well clearance, fore and aft, etc. The tricky part being that this was a new rear with no perches on it to begin with, so getting them parallel, and in the right location while dealing with everything else made for many iterations. Installing this kit on an existing rear could probably be done in an afternoon.
My overall opinion of the street-lynx was extremely favorable. I looked at several other vendor solutions as well as making my own. I really couldn't beat Bill's setup. It was beefy, well engineered, easy to install, clear instructions, and great customer support.
more pics......................
You know, I have a major complaint on how bad it sucks to post pics on this site. Has to be the right size, no duplicate file names, and if someone replies while you are trying to post - guess what, you have to re-do it. :brickwall: I'll try again for the 5th time to post more pics :flame:
Final stance - I can lower it another 2" and still allow for 4" of suspension travel (once I modify the tranny tunnel where the D60 snout is, remove the old shock brace, and notch the frame rails).
So I basically need to mark off the final floor pan adjustments and I can tear the car down to start the final process of body work. I've also been fooling around with the new gages. Since the V10 is all electronic/computer controlled, I had to ditch my old gages. I went with Autometer Sport Comp II. Here, I mocked up the gages using some foam board (happened to be red, I'll use 3/9" black ABS plastic later). I think I like this arrangement - sorry for the crappy phone pics. I also held the steering wheel approximately in the right location. Down the road, I'll need to figure out the switches / etc. I am trying to keep it as close to stock or retro looking as possible inside... I can't wait for the wiring project :eek2:
Big contrast to the stock gages. I originally wanted to try to keep that look and put the gages behind the bezel - but there was just not enough room and I wasn't about to hack up the new gages.
don't worry too much about the wiring - it isnt all that bad - I'd be willing to help ya wherever I can if you have any questions. :2thumbs:
Looking great Man! What is the final color combo going to be ? :D
Doing a great job :2thumbs:
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
I see a boost gauge in the cluster.....
Thinking about something like this :
(http://www.act-dekammeraadjes.com/bijzonderheden/turbo.jpg)
Yep - always planning for the future ;) The plumbing for the air intakes/etc. are designed so that *if* i wanted to add twin turbos I could with no body mods. However, it is not currently in the plans or funds... I gotta get this beast done... scope creep already set me back a good year or more.
Quote from: Rolling_Thunder on March 12, 2009, 01:53:02 AM
don't worry too much about the wiring - it isnt all that bad - I'd be willing to help ya wherever I can if you have any questions. :2thumbs:
Looking great Man! What is the final color combo going to be ? :D
I'm gonna take you up on that offer down the road. I have the SRT-10 FSM and it has like 4,500 pages of wiring nightmare. I still have to figure out if the stock ECM is going to work or not...
Quote from: GT on March 12, 2009, 12:14:28 AM
You know, I have a major complaint on how bad it sucks to post pics on this site. Has to be the right size, no duplicate file names, and if someone replies while you are trying to post - guess what, you have to re-do it. :brickwall: I'll try again for the 5th time to post more pics :flame:
www.tinypic.com solves all those problems.
You cannot get easier than that.
Hey GT, why don't you use PhotoBucket? :shruggy:
You can back up all your pics there, and posting them here, or anywhere, is a heck of a lot easier. :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Your car is amazing, and I can't wait to see it completed. This icon applies fully here---> :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :drool5:
Great work. :yesnod:
Quote from: GT on March 12, 2009, 02:01:28 PM
Quote from: Rolling_Thunder on March 12, 2009, 01:53:02 AM
don't worry too much about the wiring - it isnt all that bad - I'd be willing to help ya wherever I can if you have any questions. :2thumbs:
Looking great Man! What is the final color combo going to be ? :D
I'm gonna take you up on that offer down the road. I have the SRT-10 FSM and it has like 4,500 pages of wiring nightmare. I still have to figure out if the stock ECM is going to work or not...
the factory ECM shouldnt be that hard to get to work... I know quite a few places flash them and all that jazz... the NGC computer should be almost identical to my hemi computer in terms of functions and inputs/outputs... I know you can ditch down stream O2's, along with all the fun dash stuff - my suggestion would be keep the computer as a complete stand alone ECM - do not tie it into the rest of the functions of the car (like A/C, lights, gauges, and overall electrical) - keep it isolated. When you get to that part of the project just let me know - start scanning those manual pages :rofl:
I've poured many weeks into scanning the CD-manuals and electrical diagrams and such. Quite a bit of fun figuring out how to hook up the tach to a v10 - support from autometer was awesome. :2thumbs:
I agree on the stand alone part. I found a place that will reprogram the ECU - just need to call and ask specifics of what can be done. Stuff like modifying for different tunes and O2 sensors seems straightforward. The big hurdle is removing all of the security crap (had SKIM) and getting it to work without talking to the SRT-10 SKIM/RF Key system, dash cluster, body computer, etc. These damned computers exchange VIN codes at start up via a buss and disable if something is off. My run stand currently has the original instrument cluster, body computer and steering column attached so it will all run. :eek2:
Worst case, I know I can step up to a Universal AEM (1900-U) and ditch all of the stock computer crap. It's just dealing with ~$2.5K for it vs. $250 for a reprogram...
Not afraid of the wiring part... just the "TIME" involved in ironing it all out.
Speaking of which - has anyone heard of the ISIS system? Seems pretty slick... Check out the vid: http://www.isispower.com/index.html
seen the ISIS system - pretty cool idea
The stock hemi computers do the same thing on start up - buss system to diagnose and recognize all systems available... the security system can be a PITA - might want to consult the company who will flash the computer on that one. - the other alternative is to rewire your entire vehicle using the Viper body computer... I've done this with dodge truck body harnesses in a 69 Barracuda... pretty cool honestly.
any updates?
Not a tremendous amount of progress due to spring break, b-days, etc.
Car has been totally disassembled again and mounted on the rotisserrie - hopefully for the last time.
Spent quite a bit of time putting the v10 back on the engine run stand, changing oil, etc. to get it running again.
I'm now in the process of finishing the minor modifications to the floor pan. I've removed the shock brace as well as the pinion snubber floor brace. Those won't be needed due to the 4-link. Next, I'll clearance the tunnel and frame rails a bit to ensure sufficient clearance around the Dana 60. Since the car is lowered, these mods are necessary.
Once that is done, I'll finish welding the trans tunnel and add the torque boxes.
If I'm lucky, I'll finish the tunnel mods this weekend.
And I thought changing my Charger to a 440 was grueling.... I must say, great job, your dedication is truely inspiring.
anymore updates ? :bump: :bump: i just love this build
:o normally i do not like to read but this treat i love to read it again and again, very nice car you are building. :2thumbs:
Well a quick update is due. Unfortunately, when i went to start welding/modifying the floor pans, i suffered a severe injury in the process. Long story short, on May 17th, I broke my right forearm/wrist in five places. :icon_smile_blackeye: Many months of recovery, a titanium plate, and 13 screws later, and I am almost 100% again in my right arm. The doc was right - takes about 6 months to fully recover from such a severe accident. :eek2:
I dont recommend it to anyone - it has sucked. Guess I've been snake bitten... heh heh
I've placed the project in hibernation until sometime next year. It's definately going to get done. I continue to fire up the v10 on the engine stand and enjoy the rumble.
I did buy the ISIS multiplexing system for the electronics in the car - its an awesome and fully programable system. :2thumbs: I have a master control unit, 3 of the power cells, remote control, in-dash system, and the programming unit. I'll be spending the winter drawing up the diagrams and such. I'll post some updates on that from time to time - but no physical/hard work on the car.
Holy Crap! thats not the kind of body work we want to see! :o
Well, we all know too well that these projects take 3 times longer to finish than we originally plan. And cost 3 times a much! :Twocents:
:eek2: Sorry to hear. Glad that recovery is moving along and that you have a way to keep active on the project while you do so. I would imagine it helps keep the spirits up.
If you don't mind me asking. Is there a story in there that might help the rest of us avoid an injury?
sorry to here about your injury , this is one of my favorite builds on the site . Hope you get healed up and we see more progress next year . :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Quote from: bakerhillpins on November 30, 2009, 01:59:44 PM
:eek2: Sorry to hear. Glad that recovery is moving along and that you have a way to keep active on the project while you do so. I would imagine it helps keep the spirits up.
If you don't mind me asking. Is there a story in there that might help the rest of us avoid an injury?
:iagree: because the first thing that i am going to do when my order comes in is to remove and replace the floorpan so i am really :think: of what can go wrong. :eek2:
glad everything is going well with you now :2thumbs:
Been looking at the Isis system myself but not quite there yet although i have been thinking about were i can engine compartment wires.
Get well
fellow viper builder
Mike
Agreed on the ISIS. I plan on using that setup too. It seems to eliminate a lot of wire and potention problems with wiring(fire).
Did you get the panel that you dock into the dash that is like taking all the switches with you?
Okay, story about by accident - hopefully it'll help. Funny how something seems safe/ok to do - then in hindsight you realize that it was really really STUPID.
Now keep in mind, I am extremely safe and cautious while working on the car. I *never* do heavy work unless one or more people are home and i always have my cell phone on me and fire extinguisher handy.
I've learned from others when welding too. I wear gloves, vest, auto-tinting helmet, and ear plugs (one person told of getting welding splatter in their ear). Unfortunately, these precautions were part of my demise...
The Charger has been on the rotissere so that i could roll it around, rotate it, etc. to gain better access to welding/modifying the floor pan. I use the Mig, dolly, hammer, wire brush, clamps, etc. when doing this work. Because the car is on the rotissere, when level, the bottom of the car is about 3' of the ground.
Reaching inside the car to tack in the rear hump is quite a stretch due to the door jamb. Combine this with having to hold/clamp/dolly/etc. the floor when tacking and you can see its quite a difficult and awkward reach/orientation to work from. My goal was, tack it in place, then flip the car on its side and finish stitch welding on the bottom.
To facilitate this, i had a sturdy/wide/padded stool i would kneel on (mistake #1), and lean on the door bottom edge of the door seal/jamb/body (mistake #2). This worked well on the passenger side. I finished, moved/rotated the car around, and moved to the drivers side to complete.
I kneeled on the stool, pulled down the visor, and leaned on the edge and stretched to make a few tack welds. Keep in mind I am blind and deaf at this point with limited awareness of my surroundings (diminished vision, hearing, and touch/feel). For some reason, and the only time I have done this, I had a brain fart and neglected to lock the rotissere in place (final mistake #3).
As I leaned on the car - shifting my weight, the car began to slowly rotate - slow enough (due to momentum) that at first I could not tell it was moving - nor hear the tools sliding. Just as I was about to make the first tack, I realized the car was rotating. I had nothing to brace myself on - pushing on the floor of the car only rotated it more. I mildly started to panic - then the stool tipped any my full body weight (230lbs) fell on the door edge/jamb. So now, 230lbs of weight on basically a 3-1/2 foot lever (distance from centerline of rotissere) pushed on the already rotating car.
As you can imagine, the car rotated quickly - flipping me out of the car and on to the concrete - right arm hitting first. All the dolly's/hammers/etc. came tumbling/crashing out on top of me. The welder, clamped to the car with the ground strap, was pulled off the cart and up into the air - about 8-9 feet in the air... thank GOD it was heavy enough to stop the car from spinning, reverse, then land back onto the cart. If it would have continued rotating - I would have had a 100 lb mig welder land on top of me to boot. *That* would have really sucked.
As I lay on the floor - stunned at being flung to the concrete by my trebuche (rotissere)... I was pissed off by what happened. No pain, just stunned. I looked down at my arm and thought - oohhh shoot - its not suppose to be pointed back like that :eek2:
Often times the difference between disaster and incident are determined by a persons ability to either take action - or be a victim
I realized that I had a very short period of time before the pain, adrenline, etc. would kick in and I would pass out. So i stood up, flipped off the main garage circuit breaker and walked into the house to get my daughter to drive me to the emergency room.
Took about 10min to get there - I kept telling my daughter to "Dont look at my arm", "Dont speed - drive normal". She did a good job. :yesnod: About the time we got to the hospital, I opened my eyes and litterally only say gray...really weird. They had to help me out of the car and into a wheel chair. Then the pain kicked in... and the dry heaves from not eating (good thing) and adreneline. I tell you - it really sucked for the next 20min or so until they gave me some morphine. I remember they said - it wont stop the pain, but you wont care... They were right - kicked in in like 3 seconds... and I'll save the rest of the gore/surgery/recover...
So, I dont recommend repeating this. But I do recommend:
ALWAYS verify you LOCK your rotissere!
NEVER kneel on a stool.
NEVER lean on/place weight on the car while on the rotissere.
ALWAYS work on the car with someone home
ALWAYS have a cell phone and fire extinguisher
Can I be elected for the 2009 Darwin award??? :lol:
You are here to tell the story, that is a good thing. Thank God that it was not worse, it could have been. We learn from our mistakes, and hopefully, the mistakes of others. Good luck with the healing and a quick recovery.
:2thumbs: Glad to hear you are better!
Don't you have to be killed or castrated to qualify for the Darwin award? :nana:
Your still around to tell the story so I don't think so. :2thumbs:
Glad to hear your making a recovery.
:icon_smile_blackeye: awww man !! !! glad you have recovered !!! , can be dangerous working on your own , for safty !! never worried me when i was young in the garage , but now always have my phone handy .
yikes !!!! That sort of thing can happen easy with out warning. When I work on my car its on a lift and I can't tell you how easy it is to knock it off the lift since the shell with no drive line is so lite
take some time off to heal and re group then get after it!!!!
Just glad it wasnt worse than that. Im there with ya. I broke my wrist in three places about 14 years ago by jumping over a chain, snagged my feet and threw me to the ground on my left wrist. I got up, felt a weird tingling in my arm, looked down and saw my hand contorted under my arm. All i could say was: "Shit, broke my arm!" Pain and shock settled in about 10 minutes later. So I know the feeling your talking about! Had two 3 inch long pins put into my wrist.
You got it worse than I did. Bet it feels wierd to use that arm again. At least itll be stronger and harder to break next time. Just dont shoot for a next time.
Any new updates?
GT:
So sorry. somehow i missed the "trebuche" update,..
Glad you daughter was home to help out,.. hope the worst is over and your well on the way to a full and complete recovery...
Ouch! :eek2:
i found something to help perhaps...
GT... its been a while. Just wondering how your arm is? and if u got anything done lately? Im sitting on pins and needles waiting for an up date. Hope all is well.
This project is still on... but on hold thru winter. I've moved the car/tools/etc. to a secure storage since I'm in the process of moving. It's killing me not working on it. I continue to reseach and draw out electrical layout for the ISIS system. I also found a really nice upholstery shop that is willing to work with me. I plan to find some newer GTO seats and they will cover them in a similiar pattern... the SRT-10 front buckets are just too tall and propotionally dont work right. I'll sell those... the search is on for the GTO seats.
very very nice work
:popcrn:
Just read your story...holy moly! Lock, no stool, phone, other person that can drive...got it.
Awsome car. I am doing just about the same build on my 3rd gen.But I am building my 400 into a supercharged monster which is about the only diff besides the car its self. I wish you lived near me I would get in there and lend a hand for sure...given I had the time..which is why mine hasnt had progress in awhile. Cant wait for more pics and a some vids. :2thumbs:
Any work done on this? Definately one of my favorite threads on here!! :2thumbs:
Hey, I have been away a very long time but this was one of my favorite threads to follow. So sorry to hear about the break but that is old news. Anything cool and new on this?
any up dates?
None really - haven't touched the car since the arm incident. :-\
Sold off my 68 Imperial, next is the 77 GranFury. Getting down to a single project... focus focus focus :2thumbs:
I just cleared out garage and on my way to pick up more shelving today. Should have her moved back into the garage within a month so i can get back at it over the winter.
Winter is a good time to work on cars in Texas - easier to deal with 30-40 degrees than 105.
hey thanks for the reply. gotta get organized, i understand. i'll be looking forward to your progress
Looking forward to see your progress, best of luck with everything GT :cheers:
40º in the winter is much nicer than -20º...... or -30ºF...........or -40ºF...... :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big:
Sorry about your misfortune. By telling people about it you've just prevented a bunch of similar accidents from happening.
I know all my buddies say they think about me while on the sand dunes & that the thought of me has made them safer riders'. So with that I always make sure to stop & visit with anyone that has a trailer load of ATVs' with paddle tires & show them what could happen.
this is a great build!! any progress??
Progress? What's that? Lol
Actually, I just finished getting the garage back into order. Now I have to see where I left off and get back on it. I need to finish the Drive shaft tunnel...
Are we moving forward on this build again, or is it still sitting idle?
I'm in the throws of putting a Gen 2 viper motor in a 68 Charger, trying to get all my ducks in a row before I start engine installation. You mentioned a universal AEM (1900-U) earlier on in the post. Is this a replacement ECM over the stock unit, Can you explain please. It sounded pricey but might be worth it if it simplifies things over the stock system. I also have the 39 Plymouth on the go in the picture, 1957 392 Hemi under the hood. I have a very understanding wife.
What a great thread!! :2thumbs:
Hollywood - The last time I looked at engine controllers (~3 years ago), there were few options for a v-10 engine management system. Most were extremely pricey and intended for racing ($5-$12K). The AEM was a universal unit capable of handing a v10 engine - I'd definately contact them to validate it. Anyway, it is a replacement to control just the engine (firing/fuel mgmt/etc.). It looked like a good option to me but you'd definately need to research it and know how to tune/etc. If you wanted to use any components of the donor car (such as guages, security, body computer, etc.) then that would be difficult to integrate in with AEM...
I chose to reprogram the stock unit because i had the harness, connectors, everything works, it was cheap and tuneable by folks that know what they are doing.
If you dont have the harness or the computer to begin with - it might be a good way to go with the AEM.
I think i fould like 3 companies that sold controllers for this application... AEM, Motek, and one I dont recall.
I spoke to the MSD folks and they just looked at me like I had an arm growing out of my forehead (we dont do v10's... not enough demand... etc.).
Hope that helps.
Oh yeah - update time :icon_smile_big: I finally worked up the nerve to start working on the rear floor pan. I finished tacking it in place and hope to finish welding it this weekend. I just read this entire thread to get re-motivated...
:2thumbs:
Wow, near a year since my last update...
After many failed starts, staring at the rear floor plan and thinking about the arm incident, I glanced over and saw the solution to my problem... my sawzall... without hesitation i hacked out the old part of the tunnel and replaced it... a hours work:
I'll clean up the welds later. While i was at it, i went ahead and finished the rear wheel-wells... they had that annoying "pudge" in them that would rub my 335's if lowered... A real PITA project... but i completed both sides.
Then I moved onto the firewall - since most of the holes werent needed... But, it has been so long since I worked on it I couldnt remember all the brackets/holes/etc. so I had to mock up the pedals and steering column again. That is when i noticed (perhaps i knew but forgot) that the new master cylinder was a 2-bolt vs 4-bolt design and wouldnt bolt up. I found the adaptor, but I'll need to figure out the rod deal... i've been told i can remove the rod from the old and insert it into the wilwood master... (anyone know for sure?)
Now the fun part - plugging all the holes in the firewall... rather than plug each, i decided to cut away the firewall to patch in single piece. Pretty quick removal - i think this will be easier than plugging all the various holes, plus you can see how warped/wrinkled the original stamping was. Hopefully i can put the new piece in new weekend.
I also went ahead and re-installed the rear end and adjusted the ride height again. I double checked the drive-shaft clearance and it looks like it is insufficient. Since i was planning to modify the trans tunnel again anyway, i'll just tackle that as well and be done with it. as it turns out i need to raise the engine about 1/2" and slide it back just a tad to better clear the oil pan (which will be modified later). On a hunch, i got a hot-smoking deal on a new viper car engine oil pan (which is different than the viper truck oil pan)... unfortunately, either would need to be modified. Drats... The car pan is wide, flat, but about 5" deep which will hit the rack and pinion. The truck pan has a deep sump, is narrower, but only about 2" deep in the front (clears the rack, but i'll have to shorten it for ground clearance).
Glad to see your back in the saddle. Always loved your updates. I'm not affraid to get my hands dirty but I dont have the guts to do what you are doing.....
Great work
yes good to see you back, :popcrn: :popcrn: better than a magazine this thread , keep at it
Quick update. Finished the brake and clutch master cylinder mockup/installation. I purchased a wilwood clutch cylinder, 2-4 hole adaptor, and a number of chromoly heim joints to finish it up. The firewall support braket had to modified for attaching the clutch cylinder. The adaptor had to be bored out slightly to fit the Wilwood master cylinder. Also added a bushing on the brake pedal for the grade 8 attaching hardware. Still have a few pieces of hardware to upgrade to grade 8 - but this serves for now in the mockup.
Some more... Obtaining all the bits and pieces were a hassle, but this was all done for under $150 (not including the brake master cylinder).
Next step is to re-do the motor and transmission mounts and make some more modifications to the tranny tunnel - it's a little too tight for the drive shaft and ride height...
nice o see ya back!
Been a while since I posted an update... lots of progress. Significant time spent on engineering fittings, etc. placing orders, and knocking out the small tedious things that are life sucking at best while I waited for parts to show up.
Some minor brake stuff - Never safety wired before, not to bad, but definitely a hassle to get right. Always a battle between getting the length right, enough twists, not loose, getting the tools in the tight space and poking yourself with the stainless wire (*ouch*) But I had some help too - little one using inch-torque wrench :angel:
Can't tell you how much time went into figuring out all of the fittings needed... 45 degree, 37 Degree, AN, JIC, etc. etc. for Brakes, A/C, Power Steering, Water, Oil cooler, Fuel system... Learned a lot on the journey...
First, the brakes, here are 3 fittings just for one caliper.
The A/C system, wow... *tons* of fittings to get right depending on size, bulkheads, hardline, etc. I will be using a Vintage Air system, but hiding the lines as much as possible... more on that later. These pics show just the fittings on the compressor. Seems mopar used different compressor fittings, so you nee an adaptor to go to AN so that you can attach the 90 degree fittings (with service ports) for PTFE braided lines. These are *the* most expensive fittings I had the displeasure of purchasing...
I so look forward to having to make all of the lines themselves... probably two weeks of effort... more on that later too.
Now on to the power steering - and probably the biggest single tip for y'all. As I am running the Alterkation - it has a "ford" rack. If you use this rack with GM or Chrysler power steering pumps they will be over assisted. You will find all sorts of vendors selling you custom tuned/adjusted/etc. power steering boxes/hoses and in this case it really comes down to the flow control valve on the power steering pump. In my case, I needed one with an An fitting. Turns out, these are easy to get in many flow configurations to tune the amount of assist.
Here is the old unit removed, the AN fittings on the rack, and followed by the new flow valve that also has a 120 degree An fitting to direct the high pressure hose in the correct direction.
Oh yeah, when looking for fittings, be cautious that you get the correct type for the right hose and pressure... what works for, say a fuel line, wont work for power steering, AC, etc.
Ahh yes... engine & tranny mounts again. And for the LAST time. After deciding to set the motor back further, I need to make new mounts. I wasn't happy with the first set anyway that used biscuit mounts.
For the engine mounts I used 2" DOM tubing and plate steel... After spending several days aligning the engine/tranny and double checking drive train angles, I fired up the cutter and welder. Wasn't the easiest of tasks given my 110V MIG. I really need a larger unit, but plan to spring for TIG instead to do Alum/stainless:
And the tranny mount, which turned out exceptionally well. You will note four exhaust pipe clearance sections added. That will become more obvious down the road as I assemble the exhaust system (which should be COOL as heck when done). I will need to modify the cross member a little bit more then tie it together. I don't think its necessary as I am not using torsion bars, but better safe than sorry.
Some more firewall updates. I have it partially constructed, then stopped when I needed to determine the engine/PCM pass thru... which thru a major curve into my progress as I had not anticipated jacking with the wire harness at this point...
I cut away the wiper motor area and part of the cowl to gain clearance. I have an after market wiper system I intend to use, just need to figure out how I want it done. I don't care for the aftermarket wiper posts and would like to adapt it to use the stock units... another project for another time.
When I started modifying the wiring harness, it mandated that I remove the intake and valve covers - not happy about it, but I was able to validate that I have clearance to remove them after the firewall is done :yesnod:
For the first time, the engine and tranny are connected to the Dana 60. I purchased a custom length 4" aluminum driveshaft and had them use my tranny yoke and high speed balance the entire assembly. Went with Spicer XL joints (1350).
As it turns out, the yoke for a SRT-10 T56 is unique. While a yoke from a viper or ford/gm T-56 would physically slide onto the output shaft, the Truck version is seriously thicker/stouter. Glad I saved mine as there is no aftermarket available and the only way to get one is by the complete shaft from Mopar (I heard that the Viper shaft from the TR6060? is similar).
At any rate, if you find yourself with a Truck SRT-10 T56, make sure it comes with the yoke. Another possibility is to swap out the tail shaft assembly... ::)
And here is the tunnel tacked in. I'm pleased with the clean install, and plenty of clearance around the 4" drive shaft. This tunnel incorporates both the need for the 4" as well as the raising of the drive train for the lower ride of the car.
Now the tale of my wiring woes... I knew I needed to modify the wiring harness as well as have the PCM reprogrammed. I also need to determine the pass thru in the firewall as I intend to have the PCM inside of the car and use some type of Mil-spec type of quick connect.
Well to have the new engine harness made, I have to remove the old one, which, Dodge, in their infinite wisdom, decided to run underneath the intake manifold (injector wiring and both coil packs sit there). Off comes the manifold. And I might as well take off the valve covers too and have them all redone.
Engine was very clean, reflecting the low mileage. Note that I am smoothing (not polishing) the intake to take a nice appearance from the coating.
And yes, the engine is wrapped in plastic to keep the boogers out of it.
And the cursed wiring... I found at least one place that would make a new viper harness - but they need to send in yours. I just could not stomach the excessive price (over $1,500 including the mil-spec connector) for something I know I can tackle myself.
Here is part of the harness, followed by my temp harness, what was not used (on the floor) and a quick snap shot of my work bench.
The 2004 SRT FSM has ~8,500 pages in it with about 4,600 pages for wiring alone. I've averaged 3-4 hours a night for two weeks tracing, testing, understanding each wire to know what to modify and what to leave. It didn't help that my harness was an early release so it did not match what was in the FSM...
Once the PCM returns, I'll plug it and the temp harness in to test fire the engine and verity all is good. Then i'll make the harness look nice.
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
good god , me too :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
great work
GT, there's a few Viper Chargers out there nowadays correct?
Have you paid attention to any of the other ones to see how similar your builds are?
Yes i have. Remember i started this a long time back. At the time there was just the silver 68? I think Matt Delanie? Since then i've "seen" sparse photos of two others plus the obviously nice work of one of our own members here. I spent a lot of time with an owner of a ~71 roadrunner with a viper engine, etc. Its not so much the other "chargers" out there as the unique challenges of the packaging and electronics that is the difficulty. I've probably found at least 20 or so viper swaps into all manner of hotrods.
Typically it comes down to a couple of things:
1) Someone "paid" to have it done, so they could answer few questions.
2) Folks unwilling to part with their secrets.
3) Most viper boards are not welcoming at all... I've had good luck work with a couple folks on the VTCOA board.
4) Few vendors deal with viper customizations - those that do (are usually good) but there is a serious VIPER tax that makes the Hemi tax look cheap.
I love the classics and fully restored muscle cars... but these resto-mods/pro-touring/etc. cars get mixed reviews and support. Classic owners disdain them, new modern owners don't see the point, etc.
I see it as pure and simple hot rodding. Something to share. Take it as it is. I just don't understand those that won't share what they learned... I don't proclaim to be an expert - but i sure as heck will help anyone out that asks what i did - both the good and bad (just go thru this thread to see the horrors that i went thru).
Its a hobby and sharing it is the FUN part. I just love it when a do-it-yourself'er posts mods on their chargers. I also love the fact that this board is always welcoming and rarely poo-poos someone's work. Their ride, they did it, they like - GO FOR IT :)
I hear what you are saying GT, my car is the green 68 with the GEN2 Viper motor. When I first started I couldn't get anyone to answer questions. Even the pros at Mopar performance were reluctant, "We don't deal with builds like that". Dan Lessor at Viper Specialty Performance has been a God send to me in getting the motor running, providing discontinued parts and answering all my questions, he is a Top guy.
I tried to contact the people who built the silver Charger, and there was another guy in a red one on Youtube with a GEN2 motor, I actually got his email but never got any replies to my questions.
It has been a journey but not rocket science, a little patience, reading and back breaking work and it came together very nice. Also, I'm like you, part of the journey is sharing the experience, I am always willing to answer questions and help out in any way I can, try and save the next person time and a lot of money along the way. I live in San Diego, and although people love and respect the original old muscles, the resto-mods are starting to get huge attention and respect. The purists don't like them but a very large percentage of the people I have spoken to love the original old look and all the modern conveniences.
Quote from: GT on April 21, 2015, 09:17:46 PM
Its a hobby and sharing it is the FUN part. I just love it when a do-it-yourself'er posts mods on their chargers. I also love the fact that this board is always welcoming and rarely poo-poos someone's work. Their ride, they did it, they like - GO FOR IT :)
Hmmm, an opinion I guess.
Try posting some questions about your other Charger, the SRT8, here. It's not like it used to be but I'm sure the members would be easy on you since you have the Viper Charger build going on. If it weren't for the VC, wanna bet you'd be treated like those other places you talked about? ;)
Imo, they should have kept the 2011-2014 redesign around a little longer. Out of the 3 designs I like then best.
Finished the temporary harness. This will allow me to validate that I made it correctly and test fire the engine when the modified PCM arrives.
Hooked it up to a power supply and functionally tested relays/etc. Clockwise from the left: Fuel pump harness, ignition switch, Data connector, Fuel pump relay, ASD relay, Starter relay, interlock switch, push start button, bags of wires i'll remove with a couple PCM connectors in the middle, below that is a temp fuse block.
This harness will plug into the unmodified engine harness.
When i am sure it works, i'll remove all unneeded wires/connectors and merge it into the engine harness (and remove unneeded things from it as well). Add a mil-spec type firewall connector and be done with it.
Also picked up the last of the sheet metal i should need to complete the trans tunnel.
Hit a couple of snags that slowed me down. I sent the PCM off to be reprogrammed. When it arrived, I connected up everything and it fired right up - but only ran about 2 seconds before shutting down. The folks that modified it forgot to disable the SKIM/security stuff, so I had to send it back... My fear was that I messed up the wire harness (turns out all was good). Wasted a good month dealing with that hassle.
In the mean time I did finish the install of the steering column (Flaming River) as well as a couple more sections of the transmission tunnel. I should have that wrapped up next weekend.
I posted up a video of the first (successful) engine start. Enjoy: https://youtu.be/703XZgiwJJo (https://youtu.be/703XZgiwJJo)
I take it you have seen this one too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhySuW35D1Q By the way this is a great looking build and a big :2thumbs: for working outside the box on your own idea of what your dream car should be.
Motor sounds great! congrats, that's a big milestone to get the motor running!
Good luck with the rest of the build!
Pat
I find it interesting that two people doing similar builds came up with basically the same design when it came to modifying the fire wall. Nice Job with the wiring once I have the back end of my car finished I'm going back to the front to sort out the cooling, A/C and the wiring etc. Care to share your harness Mods?
Keep up the Good Work
Mike
Absolutely I will share the mods. It really wasn't too hard - if you have an '04 with 6/spd then you can duplicate what i did. Let me know when you are ready and I'll clean up my file/notes and shoot them to you.
One big note - the Engine harness only has two of the PCM connectors (and a third junction connector C-128/C-130). The third PCM connector is on the firewall harness (which I had) as well as the other end of the junction harness. Really makes no sense why dodge did it the way they did. Hopefully you have both harnesses or you will need to source one connector (C3- The Gray one). I had the FSM to go by, and it had a number of errors that made it interesting (such as a picture of the C-128 junction harness which matched mine, but only the pin-outs for C-130 - that took a long time to figure out via tracing/testing). Definitely a number of ECN's in place when they created it.
In the end, you'll have the PCM, harness with three connectors, nearly 100% of the engine harness, and three relays: Starter relay, ASD relay, and Fuel pump relay. The starter and fuel pump relays are straight forward, the ASD (Automatic Shut Down) is more difficult - kinda odd how it is used by the PCM.
All of the sensors have a common ground that terminates within the PCM (don't tie the sensor grounds to normal ground). The only unused sensor is the oil temp - the PCM does not monitor it. I am using Autometer gages, which means i will have a number of duplicated sensors...
What was odd is that my factor harness actually had an extra relay that had wires connected that terminated no where... just an extra unused relay...I also found an inline mini-fuse that was wrapped within the harness... good luck finding it if if ever blows... just bizarre stuff like that riddled within the harness. I would not be surprised if your harness had oddities as well.
Oh yeah, the FSM has wiring diagrams for knock-sensors... but my engine didn't have them. Evidently knock sensors where added in '05 models. If you are not running CATs, then you will want to remove the rear O2 sensors.
Sounds Good I am also running an 04 driveline. Looks like i'm off the car for a little while. summer nice weather stuff to do around the house yada yada yada. Glad to see someone making progress!
Very logical concept and great work guys... now, when my 440 starts to get tired.... :2thumbs:
K9
Time for another update. Spending most of my time working thru electricals and computer systems that will be needed... more on that later.
Here is a finish shot of the firewall. I also installed the mock Vintage Air box - Gen IV. Very very tight fight with the enlarged transmission tunnel. I'll need to work the AC/Heat pass thru lines via under the fender next.
Also determined the final resting place for the PCM. Due to the location of the Vintage Air box, there is a nice 4" space behind it.
But the largest time spent was engineering out the wiper system... shed a lot of tears over it. It works well, but I am still not 100% happy with it... Basically adapted the wiper motor system from Power Window Specialties and connected it to the stock under dash linkages and used some delrin and bushings to convert the horizontal motor movement to the arc of the linkages. Ugh. Fits nice and tight up under the dash. I ran it for a couple of hours off a battery. Delrin is amazing stuff!
Here is the mechanical wonder at work: http://youtu.be/BO0BmYLjPGA (http://youtu.be/BO0BmYLjPGA)
And a shot showing location of the wiper motor, PCM and HVAC unit. I still need to determine locations of the Infinity Mastercell and one power cell under the dash, amongst other things...
Some other fun things that I've been working on in the evenings...
I needed the Stock Viper PCM to be able to "talk" to the Infinity multiplexing system. One such reason is for the PCM to be able to tell the Infinity box when to turn on or off the fuel pump - but I want the Infinity system to control activation via the power cell and provide security to several subsystems (preventing hot-wiring).
Problem is, the PCM sends out 12V signals and the Infinity Mastercell wants to see ground signals (12V would damage it). So i created a small circuit using a transistor and resistor to provide a ground signal to the Mastercell when the PCM provides the 12V signal. That little beasty is in the upper portion of the picture (three wires - Black=ground, Red=12V signal from PCM, Green=Ground signal to Mastercell). I found a similar solution pre-made for ~$28 each. I can make twenty of them for $4. Win!
The other item i have been working on is adding power windows. I picked up some newer Dorman power window motors (~$33 each), but wanted to avoid the lousy stock wiring, relays, fuses, and switches that are so problematic. I also wanted to add other features such as single touch roll up/down, lock out, etc. After much research i found that using an Arduino (embedded programming with C++) and a high amperage monster motor control shield would fit the bill. You can see how small the unit it - it can drive up to 30A per motor, has overload protection, i can custom program it to do whatever i want - even control the speed of the windows. I may interface it with the Infinity Mastercell and remote control to open windows remotely... Best yet, all this set me back under $15 for the electronics.
It sounds complicated - but after you dig into a little bit it is really pretty straight forward, open source and CHEAP.
Great job on the trans tunnel! look forward to seeing your progress.
Pat
I've read this thread, and am very looking forward to seeing your project complete:)
My uncle and I own the silver 68 that everyone always mentions with the viper engine.
It is one amazing car, I took it to a carshow last weekend, and burned a little rubber in it :2thumbs:
Great work so far!!
Thank you! I'll post some updates in a week or so, wanted to wait until i had all the misc accessory components mounted. The planning for where everything goes, routes, fittings and mounting has been surprisingly time consuming - especially since I have to think about where things (like electrical) mount...
I've been searching for a suitable stainless steel washer tank that "looks right". Totally striking out. So I spent the weekend at the TMS Good Guys show, specifically checking every car... nada... came to the conclusion that everyone just omits the washer bottles... I can only assume i am worried about something i shouldn't be... While i do have a new stock washer bottle - honestly, it looks like poo compared with everything else.
I also bought a new TIG welder - which has been time consuming to chase down all the infinite number of items needed to use it. This will slow me down as I learn to use it... But i have a large number of uses for aluminum and stainless items that, when estimated, came out cheaper to buy one and learn vs. paying a pro.
Besides, he who has the most toys/tools.... WINS :)
Man. That electronic stuff you were talking about was like reading Martian for me but I would love to understand it. A couple of better ideas I had for my project were left out due to my utter ignorance on the subject. Great to see this project moving along again. I am lovin' it. :coolgleamA:
I hear ya - it spooked me for a while... The bigger challenge is packaging. Between this and mounting all of the radiators/coolers/etc. etc. on the front of the car, it has given me profound respect for the packaging engineers that manage to cram everything into modern cars. And they aren't even trying to make it look pretty.
Look at this... I have to mount this power cell, arduino, & Dakota Digital fan controller under the hood without it looking half baked. That is a 8.5x11 white piece of paper under them for perspective... I have three more of those Infinity Box pieces that have to mounted somewhere in the car.
I've been searching for an decent looking enclosure to mount this stuff in under the hood... pains taking searches. Its either uber expensive and bulky (think BUD cabinet stuff) or plastic crap. Has to hold up to moisture, heat, etc.
Which is another reason for the TIG... I'll probably just make an enclosure out of stainless...
nice job on the wipers !!! I've been wondering how I am going to pull that off myself
Quote from: GT on October 09, 2015, 12:30:54 PM
I hear ya - it spooked me for a while... The bigger challenge is packaging. Between this and mounting all of the radiators/coolers/etc. etc. on the front of the car, it has given me profound respect for the packaging engineers that manage to cram everything into modern cars. And they aren't even trying to make it look pretty.
Look at this... I have to mount this power cell, arduino, & Dakota Digital fan controller under the hood without it looking half baked. That is a 8.5x11 white piece of paper under them for perspective... I have three more of those Infinity Box pieces that have to mounted somewhere in the car.
I've been searching for an decent looking enclosure to mount this stuff in under the hood... pains taking searches. Its either uber expensive and bulky (think BUD cabinet stuff) or plastic crap. Has to hold up to moisture, heat, etc.
Which is another reason for the TIG... I'll probably just make an enclosure out of stainless...
As I was reading this I was thinking the same thing. No need to wait for your TIG skills to come in though . Here is a simple way to make a sheet metal enclosure out of stainless or any other sheet metal that I have seen a bunch of times. You just need to have access to a box pan break to fold the edge flanges. It is good to start with the flange side of the enclosure as it is easy to fit the plain cover to it rather than vice versa. You can screw it to the flanges as shown or through the face depending on how tight the space is you are mounting it in.
A few updates. I've spent all of the last month on the front 5 feet of the car... A great deal of metal work/repairs. The left and right sides of the cowl support and front sections of inner fenders were swiss cheese from multiple modifications/hacks over the last 45 years... I counted over 75 holes that had to be filled... :eek2:
Found it easier to simply cut and replace the panels.
I still need to wrap up the drivers side inner fender - but here are a few pics...
Of course it doesn't end there... My radiator support had taken a beating over the years, it was tweaked, and had a number of holes in it. That portion of the car is so freaking flimsy... took a few measurements and a 1" x 2" piece of square tubing would fit the bill perfectly. However, it would offset the hood latch 1" forward (more on that below).
I had to cut it into sections to match the contours - worked out pretty good. I welded a couple of nuts on a piece of metal and added a retainer inside. Eventually i will tie in the radiator support to the inner fenders.
Once done, the rigidity was excellent - i could grab and shake it with no movement - unlike the 1" of back and forth with the original.
I used rivnuts in the locations to mount the hood latch. (Rivnuts are awesome, btw).
Now with a solid radiator support, i could mock up and mount the AC condenser, oil cooler and power steering cooler. Tried multiple ways before a found my happy place. what a hassle. :brickwall:
The oil cooler is 14"x14"x2" unit with AN-10 fittings, should support 600HP. I would have loved to use the viper water/oil heat exchanger, but i just could not make the packing work out - plus, it caused issues with having a heater that works... i can explain more if interested.
The AC Condenser was the largest unit Vintage Air sells... funny, but it was only slightly larger than the stock unit.
Now on to the pesky hood latch/tray... I knew i had to section out an inch due to the new radiator support. I also needed to modify the lower bracket to clear the coolers. It worked out well. I am very pleased with the sectioning of the hood latch - can't hardly see where it was modified. (Yes my charger was originally plum crazy purple).
After about a month of mods, here is the final product... modified latch, oil cooler, power steering cooler, ac condenser, new radiator support, etc. Whew!
Nice job! Love the upper radiator support.
Pat
Very nice work
A lot of modifying and engineering as you go, hats off to you.
I like the Build its going to be sweet i almost went with a Viper Motor in my Daytona Build i just couldn't stand that tractor sound when idling but it sounds Badass when your hard on the Throttle so i went with a stroked 400 and twin turbo's you will have to check out my Daytona build in aero cars its at Holohans hot rods for the simple fact no time and no skill but like you i had a ten year old dream. Good Job looks Killer
Nice work :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Don't you just love it when you pull something off that you're really proud of. To the point where you're just staring at it for awhile and then doing the shake test. It's almost like you don't want to move onto the next task thinking to yourself "how am I going to out do what I just did".
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Quote from: Ghoste on October 13, 2015, 04:53:02 AM
A lot of modifying and engineering as you go, hats off to you.
:iagree:
Very nice! I'm liking this thread!
Time for a monthly update... Finally sorted out the mounting of the radiator and fans. Never really liked this FSR radiator much due to the lack of mounting options. Used stainless hardware and made spacers out of some stainless tubing i had. I didn't take photos, but there are brackets and mounts along the bottom as well.
Worked out well - solidly mounted. I made sure there was at least 1/4" clearance between the radiator, fan, and radiator support (as well as between each of the coolers). I'll add a seal between the radiator and support upon final assembly.
Using Pat's "tutorial", I bent my stainless A/C hard lines as well. Both hard lines snake thru the gap between the radiator support, bumper mounts and fender. There is about 2" of space there... I just about went nuts trying to figure out how to route the #10 line... the condenser in the car and the location of the compressor are on opposite corners. In the end, I decided to route the #10 line thru the drivers side...
Here are some pics of the flex line from the compressor to the fender. That short piece was a huge pain due to the short radius, lack of space, and size of the line. I had to cough up some coin for the 90 degree tight fittings to make it work.
Next up i tackled some of the electrical mil-spec connectors. There are four, one on each side by the door mounts and the other two on either side of the trans tunnel for the PCM and gage wires. I am glad I am using the InfinityBox system, even with that, I have ~100 wires to route forward of the cowl. :eek2:
The first pic shows the connector (and boot) just about the emergency brake cable (you can also see the A/C bulkhead). Space was limited due to the cable, emergency brake, and the vent housing. I will say this was probably the most difficult area to engineer out all of the components needed in the limited space given.
The next two pics is the passenger side - with and without the boot. Lots of careful measuring again as the wiring will pass in close proximity to the Vintage Air box & lines.
All of the wiring will run under the fenders (or under the intake manifold for the engine stuff).
On to some fun... err... frustrating stuff. Remember that TIG I bought, well i've been practicing with it for a few weeks (and its about 100X more difficult than MIG). So I decided to try my hand at making a pair of reservoirs (one as a radiator overflow, the other for windshield washer).
No before you start hating on my welds and telling my how bad they suck :eek2: remember this is my *first* attempt at actually making something. All in all, I think it looks OK - i would hate to spend money anything that looked like this, however. :icon_smile_cool:
I bought a six foot section of 3" pipe made from 6061 at 1/8" thickness. I chose about 11" in length for the tube. The end discs are 1/4" thick, since I will tap into those for the fittings later. I picked up some decent bungs/caps that are about the size of the radiator cap. The "plan" is to create a top plate that covers the ugly radiator and welds for a more finished look... so, my crap welds will be hidden. :2thumbs:
First pic is the raw materials. Second are the cut parts mocked up. Third pic I am ready to weld. The fourth is the final product with a slight polish on it.
Ok, so most of the engine side components are mocked up now. I fit the original air cleaner I made (prior to moving the engine back), and it does not fit very well - originally it was going to pull fresh air from under the fenders, but that was before i realized all the other "stuff" going on under there... I'll thick of something else later to replace it. :shruggy:
The current plan is to have the cruise control box on the drives side front and one of the InfinityBox power cells on the passenger side front. Still debating if i can hide those better... perhaps when i make the radiator cover i can extend it to hide these :scratch chin:
Great progress and nice job on the reservoirs, AC lines, and radiator mounts! You are right about Tig welding being 100x harder than Mig welding. It's like the difference between driving and drifting.
Pat
TIG is art and science.
:popcrn: just going to sit here and watch as it becomes a perfect charger...... :2thumbs: perfect combo and nice work :cheers:
any progress on this?
Sort of... Mostly knocking out little nagging items. took off about 6 weeks for vacation and international travel - just now getting back to it (but the little lady has some home projects for me - so it'll be slow going the next few months). Here is some catch up since the last update...
Closed off and finished boxing in the radiator support ends. Added additional rigidity and looks cleaner. Then finally knocked out the location and final mounting locations for the cruise control and front power cell:
Always hated the stock horns... Seems like most of the aftermarket ones sound off, are cheap, too bulky, etc. After some surfing, i found certain years of caddys/etc. came with an electric four note horn system... very loud and full sounding, similar but not as obnoxious as a train horn. Scooped up a nice set and mounted them on the front bumper supports out of the way:
Years ago, i purchased a new gas tank, then i scored a stealth system. There are some better solutions available now, but i decided to go ahead and use this system for now - should work well. Took about 45min to complete the install. It was a bit nerve raking to drill a hole in my perfect gas tank - turned out nice.
All done:
Also have been making some progress on the power window and headlight actuator controllers. Here is a mockup of the near-final unit. This is basically it. No relays/etc. Less than about $20 thus far (excluding power window motors). Once i finish programming, i will be able to use small switches that are ground based (no power running thru them) and have partial or one touch up/down control. There is a feedback system so the control knows when the window as the end of the travel (or your head/arm is caught in the window) and will automatically stop the motor with out the hassle and extra wiring of limit stops/switches. Other sensors will be attached as well - if those work, i'll share more.
The last thing i did before break was to hang sheet metal and the hood on the front for a final clearance check/mock up. All is well.
Very nice! I would love to learn more about the window controller with the safety stops and I also like where you located your horns I may have to borrow that idea ;-)
Thanks
Pat
outstanding. this stuff gets me going!!!
Nice work! :2thumbs:
I'm currently installing DEI 530T modules in my car that will make the power windows operate with the alarm remote and one touch on the switches. It also has that feedback system. I had to buy modules, I'm not smart enough to make my own like you did! :o
how goes it, any updates?
Nice car.
how is this coming along GT?
Still making progress... Tons of little things needed for mock up (brackets/mounting stuff/etc.). I'm trying to wrap a few more items up before i blow this thing apart for the last time and toss it back on the rotisserie to finish the underside. Not too many pics, but enjoy.
Had to modify the Viper stainless exhaust manifolds - cut off the end and weld on new ones. I real PITA since where i needed to cut was oval shaped and required work before i could TIG the new ends on.
Jigged up - lots of time spent getting a gapless fit before welding. The other side turned out better. I'll weld in the O2 bungs on the down pipes.
No pictures, but spent a lot of time installing and aligning doors, what a battle. Was going to rebuild my old hinges, but decided to just install new ones from AMD... not impressed. The passenger door went on in 5 minutes, perfect alignment with body lines... The drivers door did not. After battling for a couple of hours it was installed, but the door/quarter lines are not lining up. It matched when i replaced the quarters... so i walked away for about a week - really :icon_smile_angry:
Then i remembered the door i was installing was not the original door to the car (that i used to line up the quarter)... So now i need to use the original door (which has other serious issues), or i need to modify the top of the quarter - which is what i will likely do. I know others have encountered this problem as well...
At any rate, i also installed the seats, modified the seat frames to lower them, installed the dash, console, steering wheel and column and the gages. I knew the console would sit higher do to the raised tunnel - i really like the height (felt the old one was 3-4 inches too low).
After installing, i decided i do not like the layout of the gages - that is, how obscured they are by the steering wheel... I'll need to think on this a bit - plenty of time to work this.
The SRT-10 seats are really growing on me... after lowering them they look really good (comfortable as well).
I may just need a shorter shifter, however... :smilielol:
I also built a panel that will bolt into the trunk between the wheel well and the trunk mounted battery. I will hold the remote solenoid for the starter feed, the rear power cell, and the safety hub. The safety hub 150 has ground buss and a power feed, the fuses (mini and AMI) are protected by a sealed lid (it is marine grade). I'll use this vs. the maxi-fuses for the power cell and it gives me future expandability for a rear amp/etc.
So here is how this works: A 0/1 gage welding cable connects the battery to the solenoid on top, then runs thru the interior of the car and passes thru the firewall to the starter. The solenoid is activated by the power cell under it (Push the start button and the master cell sends a signal to the power cell to start the engine). Otherwise no current flows over the starter cable.
A 2 gage wire attaches to the right side of the safety hub, which in turn supplies fused power to the power cell from the top. The buss on the left is for grounds. On the bottom (can't see it) are a number of circuits with mini fuses for whatever else might needed). One of the top connections will send fused power via a 2Ga wire to the front of the car...
you have been busy. will you be making a schematic for all your circuitry?
Yes i have multiple pages of schematics.
Here is a basic one of some of the engine wire harness.
Unfortunately the resolution is lousy due to file size limits...
:coolgleamA: :2thumbs: :popcrn:
pages and pages should be a good reference
What happened to this project?
I was asking myself the same thing just the other day. :popcrn:
He hasn't. Been online since November of 2016. Hope all is well
Luke
I also hope all is well. I was enjoying the build... :popcrn:
Yes the build is fine. I'll post some pics on an update - tons of minor/nagging items done with running lines, brackets, etc. Basically at the body work stage now...
Thanks for the update & glad all is well! :2thumbs:
This is more of a bump than an update as someone was asking questions about v10 install in a 2nd gen.
But, attached are a couple of close up pics... this was after applying raptor liner.
One is a tease - the front spring mounting area... see if you can tell whats going on.
Glad to see progress, awesome job
Spring relocation?
Thanks for the update! :cheers:
Looks like you set it up for some side exhaust.
Very cool!
Pat
Yes sir! That was fun sectioning out that part of the frame and torque boxes to add inner support and the 4" Dia 3/8" thick pipe.
I'll have 3" Dia stainless oval tubing exiting there with an interesting look to it...
Hey GT. I have so many questions as my build is finally underway. Let me know how we might get in contact (assuming that's ok with you).
It haaaaas begun!! :)
Thats gonna be fun :coolgleamA:
Quote from: ChargedNJ on November 26, 2018, 01:03:25 PM
It haaaaas begun!! :)
Seeing as the Ram is a quad cab, are you going to be leaving the automatic behind it? Or grab a T56 or TR6060?
Definitely going manual, so T56 or TR6060. Unfortunately no use for the auto that's in it now. I had a good lead on a regular cab with a supercharger/manual for only $16k and I let it slip away, oh well!
I got my Viper T56 from http://donscharfautomotive.com/ a few years back. I had it shipped from WI to ID on a pallet for $1,700 total. It was out of a 2004 with 15K on it.
Cool - Start a dedicated thread for your build - we need more of them (I think this would make the 3rd, or 4th V10 charger build thread).
Your ram was in better shape than the one I picked up. Save *everything* and part out what you don't need.
Quote from: GT on November 27, 2018, 03:07:25 PM
Save *everything* and part out what you don't need.
Absolutely. Those trucks are not common and parts are not easy to get.
So an update here. I got the motor out and am having some major 2nd thoughts, due to...ready for it? Sound.
I'm pretty inexperienced and just assumed you could make a v10 sound like a v8 via exhaust/cam. Turns out not so much, so I'm seriously considering flipping the motor and going the 426 route.
Yeah i went through that too. they can sound wicked with nice exhaust and cam. But never the v8 sound. And they don't have the sounds of the exotic v10's either...(odd firing vs. even firing).
v8 would be easier/cheaper to install too.
At least the cross plane and odd fire give it an aggressive, rumbly idle. When it's all said & done, the motor will have cost me only 3500, so for 500hp and reliable efi. Since I'm going full frame and them aware of the motor (steering rack will go under) I'm hoping the incremental fab work is limited to firewall and custom mounts. Where it will be tricky is wiring as you pointed out, but that will be at the cost of my time to figure out.
So I've talked myself off the ledge. This is the cheapest/quickest route for me to achieve HP and modern efi with the chance of a late summer debut. Hopefully I fall in love the way it sounds.
With the Viper V10 it will sound like no other hot rod out there. Get the right exhaust and it will have a narly idle. My SRT10 truck has the Magnaflow exhaust, It is pretty loud, but I have heard Vipers that are even louder.
Well, its funny...when i decided to go this route, i had heard enough vipers idle and the sound was close enough to a classic v8 that i thought i was fine...idle definitely appears manageable. It was the link below that led me to recognize last week that once a certain type of motor spools up to high RPM they have certain sound characteristics that are unchangeable. I know it seems like a silly thing, and don't get me wrong...performance is important...but a huge the charm of these cars (or any car for that matter) is aesthetic, both seen and heard. There is always going to be voracious debate about the visual...stock vs pro-street vs pro-tour. I think all three styles are great...my personal preference is pro-tour, both for the look and performance...but to each his own. The one thing i would go out on a limb and say all three style fans nearly universally agree on is sound. I think we all love that deep, throaty rumble of an american V8 whether at idle or spooled up at 8K rpm. I think the viper will be a great sound and i will be happy, but i think there will be always something missing for me. But i needed to prioritize and cost is a big one. Time is the other...i dont want to rush a change in direction on motor but i'm also kind of mid-life crisis-ing right now and i don't want to lose another summer just to get it exactly the way i want. Honestly, i would be thrilled if i had this thing driving in July with a VW beetle motor in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Pz4dYuQK_c
I'll be happy to share my engine wiring harness diagrams/pin outs with you. I made my own and figured out what was and wasn't needed. While you'll still need to build it, it will save you a ton of time vs. going through thousands of pages of electrical diagrams and metering every wire out... There were like 150 wires to deal with in the half dozen or so connectors - i think like only 1/2 were needed in the end.
There will be some differences due to transmission and sensor changes (knock sensors, etc.).
Don't forget these V10's have a very broad stump pulling torque curve!
Time to get back on this project. First a couple of catch up photos. First couple were prior to the Epoxy primer, then followed up with seem sealer/black SPI epoxy and rhino liner under the car, the interior and trunk areas. This is where the car sat for 18+ months. The quality of the pictures from my old phone are not the greatest.
Here is where "we" are at today. Body work stage. It is amazing the amount of work goes into straightening out essentially new panels. Started with the right rear quarter area first. Plan to try knock out a section at a time. Then will move onto the blocking/etc. portion.
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
A couple of pics of the on going bodywork. Smoothed out the factory spot welds on the door jambs. Should have the car panels reinstalled and the entire deal ready for poly and next stages of block sanding before end of Sept.
In the meantime, had lots of smaller rust repairs / etc. on the fenders, doors, etc. to knock out.
The car had the drivers side fender replaced early in its life with a "NOS" unit. Whatever body shop did it took some shortcuts and hacked the upper bracket that attaches the fender to the cowl. I had to remove it and move it back and in 1/4". Here are some before and afters (I had already replaced the missing back section that was cutoff by the bodyshop):
The bottom rear edge of the drivers fender had some rust. Cut it out, removed the rust and tabbed a replacement piece that had a challenging curve to it. Not shown here, but the rust holes in the support brace were also repaired. I think it turned out OK in the end.
The passenger fender had its own challenges. I think i have 4 passenger fenders, each one with its own issues. The red one had some bad cancer in the rear section. I had a replacement rust repair panel from YO which absolutely sucked. So I elected to hack that section off of a spare green fender that i had been hanging on to (it was crunched in the front section badly). The red fender came from a car with the chrome trim, so i had to fill all of those holes in the process.
I've dubbed this my Christmas fender :smilielol:
If you look closely, you'll notice that i also modified the inner fender brace to clear the front tires on the car since it will be lower than stock.
It was then completely cleaned, and Epoxy coated.
On to the drivers door - had a small spot of rust on the front. This repair turned out really well. What i really hate about these rust issues is all the hassle of removing the rust hidden behind the panels.
This door (and the passenger) came from yet another 70 charger.
I've added a closeup of how many layers of paint this door had on it (8).
Last update for now. Between the different door and aftermarket quarter panel, i had some nasty alignment issues. The top edge of the quarter and door were off about 1/8" if i lined up the body lines. Then the gap between the door and the quarter were all over - too tight, crooked, and too wide. Had to slice the quarter in several areas to make minor adjustments. I still have some finish work to do to it yet, as well as get behind it and clean/epoxy where i welded.
same issue here too
Nice work!
Looks great! nice to see you back at it!
Pat
Nice to see you are finally back at it. :cheers:
great Work good to see the project going ! :cheers:
Update time. I've been alternating between the body work on weekends, and the hundreds of small items to clean/restore/etc.
First up, the main shell of the car has the body work completed with two iterations of block sanding. The final coat of poly is applied and will be block sanded again after the doors/etc. are installed in order to perfect the body lines. At this point i am working the other panels (body work, etc. etc.). Probably a month or so before i am ready to mount for block sanding.
One of the weekday projects was to work on the door scoops. They had about 10 layers of paint on them and it took a while to clean them up.
Initially i was not planning to re-use the originals as one has some plastic damage that i will still need to repair. I bought some repo ones from a major vendor (not gonna mention names because they likely source them from the same place everyone else does) and, well, they suck.
These did not even come close to fitting the stock locations. There are multiple problems with them... First the bolt spacing on the repo scoops are off by 1/4"-1/2" so the holes don't line up. Worse, the factory units have pedestals for the bolts to point straight into the door; but the repo ones are just glued onto the curved scoop so they point in at an angle. Either you need to bend the scoop or bolts to install them or cut slotted holes in the door... They went back into a box for return. I suppose if you have nothing else and don't mind welding up existing holes in your doors and performing other hackery you could use them... RUN AWAY.
Sorry for all the pics - hopefully others benefit:
Another side project - been rebuilding all of the components within the doors (guides, rollers, etc.). There are lots of reference pics by other members here (thank you member Shakey - found great reference pics from Jan 2008 in your thread). Of most use was source and part numbers for the rubber/felt liner(AS990033 from restoration specialties).
I think its easier to rebuild an engine vs. all of the door/window guts. A couple of pics of the front door window channel that was in exceptionally poor shape:
Last bit for now. If you look in the interior section of the forum you will find a longer write-up i posted on rebuilding the rear quarter window roller guides. I had to machine some replacement parts due to unavailability. No one makes the smaller roller wheels that ride along the window guides:
Nice work.
very nice !!
Man time flies. Another 7 months have passed with lots of challenges for us all. Project was put-on hold for about 4 months due WFH, Covid & etc.
My 80 Gal compressor also took a dump with the compressor seizing and taking out the electric motor. All worked stopped and it took some time for a new one to arrive due to shipping challenges and such.
Picked up a nice IR 80 Gal unit with an auto drain and after cooler. Its very nice. Since the old compressor was well taken care off, with a perfect tank, i stripped it down and used just the tank as extra storage capacity. Back in business again:
The body work and block sanding takes forever. Prior to the compressor fun, the doors, hood, and truck were all worked on. Once block sanding on the engine compartment is done, i'll mount the doors and fenders, align, and knock out the side body line.
The hot Texas weather isn't helping, but I can most definitely see the end in sight. I am hopeful we will see paint when it cools down, maybe Oct.
In the meantime, here are a few pics of the comments pre-compressor meltdown. I'm doing crisp body lines on the car. I like the last artistic photo where my daughter rubbed her fingers on the primer-surfacer dust:
What Part of the great state of Texas ?
OK, now for the long and likely controversial part. While the garage was out of commission, i turned my attention to the dash. There were several modifications that were needed to hold all of the gages, switches and indicators. Plus i wanted a double din head unit as well as new central A/C ducts and controls. I must have drawn up 20+ designs trying to fit it all together while taking into consideration all of the electronic do-dads and computers that will be behind the dash. It's gonna be very tight.
Here is where i centered up on the mock-up drawing. The left gage (speedo) and switches on the right will be slightly tilted in to fit it all.
I cut 6061 aluminum sheets and used a boring tool to cut out the gage holes. It took very precise measuring and careful drilling.
Quote from: cdr on July 18, 2020, 12:33:35 AM
What Part of the great state of Texas ?
McKinney area
Quote from: GT on July 18, 2020, 12:38:19 AM
Quote from: cdr on July 18, 2020, 12:33:35 AM
What Part of the great state of Texas ?
McKinney area
Cool, I am in the Katy,,, Houston area, very awesome build you got going there. :coolgleamA:
Since the speedometer on the left and the switches on the right were angled ~20 degrees, it left some interesting areas to fill with metal. Made some paper templates, carved it from steel and welded them in to fill the gaps.
The third pic you can see it coming to shape (like the 50th time i mocked it up). The 4th pic I'm working on the framing for the A/C ducts and stereo. The separate metal piece at the bottom is actually a cover that will be upholster and bolted in place... more on that later.
Last two pics are a couple of shots from different angles in the final mock upon the gage and center sections of the dash.
Once i make final selection of the A/C controls, I will make the necessary cut-outs. Likely i will use the ones in the previous post. Those and the vents you see are from RestoMod air... nice $tuff. My main challenge is i did the entire mockup and tabbed brackets for a vintage air system but i love the controls from RestoMod... unfortunately they are not compatible - choices...
OK, one thing i really wanted to do is make the dash appear as factory built as much as possible (tall order). I wanted to retain the same textures and really do NOT want aluminum panels - even turned aluminum... cool on hotrods, don't think it fits here.
Due to the double Din head unit and needed dash mods, the plastic lower dash pieces in the center had to be modified. I did not want to cut up my original A/C central dash piece (they are not reproduced), so i bought new lower panels from Classic for non A/C application. Then i proceeded to cut up and modify the perfectly good pieces :'(
The section between the glovebox and the stereo had to be modified - i ended up epoxying a new post in order to screw down to the dash (Pic 4).
Finally i had to make the last aluminum panel above the glove box - this was due to the fact the the stock piece was no longer long enough.
Of course, all of these modifications & mockups look pretty quick from the photos, but this about 4 months of weekend work...
After 4 months of mocking up, cutting, welding, block sanding, body, tears, blood and sweat, we have paint...
on the dash :)
Turned out very nice - quite pleased with it.
Last update for now... i expect another 2-3 months of work on the dash to build the wiring harness and cover the Aluminum panels.
Speaking of, i noted previously i wanted the textures on the dash to look as factory like as possible. If you scroll back multiple pages you will see an early iteration of the dash that used a textured 1/8" piece of ABS plastic. Hated it.
I played around with crinkle paint, hammered textures, hotrod flat, even thought about doing leather... nothing looked right and none of it was close to the texture of the gage panel. I agonized over what to do for months.
Then, one evening i was practicing on my strat and was looking at my Marshall amp and noticed something. The Tolex on the amp appeared to be a dead ringer for the texture of our gage panels. With great excitement i bought a role and did some experimental covering with recommended glues/etc. and it's going to look awesome. I'll get some posts up once i cover the aluminum panels so y'all can see.
In the meantime here are a couple of pics comparing the Tolex to the factory panel that is above the glove box. In the second picture it is very close. The Tolex, while softer, has a little bit deeper texture, but the sizing of the wrinkles is about as close as you can get.
So for anyone wanting to make a custom panel and match the factory texture - seek out some Tolex. It will take detailed eyed person to notice the difference :2thumbs:
Very nice workmanship/ :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Nice work and great find on the Tolex!
I know this post hasn't been updated in a while, and I'm a noob but I have been reading posts for a while (and following this build) but I would also like to ask for the engine wiring harness diagrams/pin outs... not putting one in the Charger but I am putting a 2005 gen3 from an SRT-10 in my 37 DeSoto... would definitely save me some time !
Holy Moly ! :cheers: This is wonderful. I hadn't been looking at this thread for a while.
I want a dash like you have made. But with the skill of a tulip poplar I have :smilielol: , I don't think I am going to get there any time soon.
Really nice work.
Update time. Dash progress has been slow due to shipping delays. After yet another mockup, i decided that the head unit and A/C control positions needed to be swapped. With that modification done, I completed the applying the Tolex to the aluminum panels. Two shots of the dash and one of my workspace:
The next challenge was to deal with the huge wiper/washer switch for the aftermarket wiper system. I tried to reverse engineer it to utilize different switches but was thwarted since the unit has some processor components within. Spent weeks considering where to put the unit and in the end, decided to mount it further back in the dash and use a shaft extension. I'm not really happy with placement, but I've run out of real estate on and behind the dash. Shots of the bracket i tabbed on how it is mounted, and one from behind the dash:
Next up I need to find a place for the power window switches. Dash location was out, i didn't want a bunch of switches in each door panel. Decided to put it in the consoled just in front of the shifter.
This was a new top cover that i had in storage for about 12mo...wasnt happy to see the woodgrain peeling on a new unit. Didn't matter in the end because i decided to strip that cheap plastic looking fake wood grain and replace it with Tolex:
I'm currently working on the glovebox itself... It's about half as deep as stock because of the A/C unit. The A/C unit was shifted to the right to clear the modified firewall and trans tunnel because of the viper motor.
Once i figure out a solution for the glovebox, I will start building the dash wiring harness. And figure out where to stuff all of this, plus a few other controllers/etc.:
Wow
Troy
The V10 makes 505 hp? That is a lot, but not by today's power numbers coming from the factory. Have you considered twin turbos? Take it to 600 or 700.
That's about right, may make a bit more with upgrades. When this was started that WAS a lot of power :yesnod:
I looked into twin turbos early on, but that would require some forged internal upgrades.
I've even been asked why not change to a hellcat/etc. I'm too far into this and NO more scope creep.
:2thumbs:
I like the plan and have liked it since you first posted it. Looking forward to seeing it done. :2thumbs:
Small update, which doesn't reflect the huge hassle and re-work done to fix the passenger door/quarter panel gap.
Long story short, the door is not original to this car, and after many attempts at setting the gaps correctly I started checking the passenger door, door opening, and quarter panel to the drivers side. In the first picture, you can see how the top inner edge of the quarter panel does not align with the body.
As it turns out, the top edge of the factory quarter was mis-stamped and was 3/6" narrower than the driver side. It was also lower by about 1/8". :eek2:
So i drilled out some spot welds on the inner structure, then sliced the top of the quarter (that is normal hidden by the trim) to make some adjustments. Welded it back up and tossed a little primer on it for now. I'll finish blocking it shortly.
While i was at it, i went ahead and drilled holes to mount the passenger sport mirror (because this door didn't have the holes).
And after the experience with the quarter/door, i decided to check all of the chrome for fit/alignment. Something i should have done originally when finishing the metal work.
I suspected that the chrome around the rear window would give me problems as the dutchman panel and sail panels were replaced. The curve of the window channel in the bottom right corner looked off.
I sacrificed a window seal and mounted the rear glass and attached the trim... yeah the bottom left corner trim wouldn't fit. Here it is marked and you can see how the curvature is off.
I've already adjusted the window channel - had to make a little slice in it and do some hammer/dolly work on it (didn't get final pics).
Great work on the cluster and console...the Tolex looks right at home. Glad you swapped the Double DIN and center vents, looks much better imo.
Looking forward to seeing everything in the glove box...The V10 builds tons of torque, will make for a great driver!
Very impressive.
Winter slowed things down a bit, but progress is still in work. The dash and wiring for it is about as done as it can be, with remaining to be done after install. I managed to squeeze in many of the controllers into the glove box. Any remaining items will be installed on a separate panel behind the dash:
Sorted out all of the locations on the V10 for senders/etc. Don't recall if i showed this before or not. A lot going on on the passenger front side of the motor. Oil lines, water lines, oil pressure, oil temp, etc.
Had a nasty cold snap here, but managed to drag in a few items to work. Cleaned up and fixed the hood mounted turn signals. It seems the tin/pot-metal turn signal indicators on most 70 chargers warp over time, likely due to over tightening. Some before/after.
I'll need to source the wiring and likely new lenses... All of these little things really add up
The block sanding is still in progress as weather permits. The hood turned out to be a real pain given its age and years of abuse.
Really down to the final pass and going over every nook and cranny on the car, especially the engine bay. I would have never imagined putting this much time into it. If this final pass is good, i'll be redoing the spray booth, then it will be time for color. Hoping that will happen in April, possibly May. It is getting so close !!!!
Coming along very well!
Making steady progress... Been focused on getting the viper motor wrapped up. Lots of cleaning, painting, etc. Can't be too careful with aluminum, and the entire engine is aluminum, so lots of tedious steps in scrubbing and cleaning. Used epoxy primer followed with 2k aluminum paint and/or hotrod black.
Also had to swap oil pans from the deep sump SRT-10 truck version to the flat viper car version, which meant new dipstick and oil pickup locations, different bolts, etc.
Engine was super clean inside with under 10K miles on it.
Installed the custom wire harness, intake, valve covers, etc. Only thing remaining is the throttle body and injectors. She is pretty much ready to go at this point:
Focusing in on the paint selection as well. Plum Crazy paint is notoriously difficult to match - every show you go to a PCP car looks a little different. Decided to use the modern version from a 2019 Hellcat Challenger. Here is a sample that i will do a spray out on and see how it looks in the sun before dropping the coin on the base coat. I've included the label and mix ratios. Using Spies/Hecker products:
WOW, 14 years and counting.
Looking forward to seeing the PCP!
:drool5:
Absolutely amazing work you've done. This place has some incredible work being shown.
Very, very nice work! I have both, lol! An fc7 Charger and 05 srt10 4 door, lol.