G'day guys.
Some may have seen my previous post regarding problems with valves on No.8 cylinder on my Bee's 383.
In anticipation that it may be a worn lobe on the camshaft, I thought I'd ask for recommendations as to what camshaft would be good to replace to original one with.
I don't race my car, just drive it, but I do like it to have the right amount of "kick" that it should. It has a Holley 750 and headers, and is completely stock as far as I know.....even the original motor.....automatic with 3.23 sure grip diff....is there a particular cam I could just "whack" in and get good performance from ? Is there a "standard" that most guys use ?
Years ago I did some cam research for a 340 I had that needed a cam.....got a purple shaft from memory, but do you think I can remember what all the numbers and stuff mean now ?
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Peter
I used a lunati 702 (at that time was 60302 - which you can search the number on this forum) and liked that. (Do not know the rest of the numbers). I also believe the Comp cams 262 or 268 are good options.
Best of luck with the car.
What about the crower 271HDP ? ( or 267 )
You might check with guys at Hughes Engines, I bought a whiplash cam for a small block and it sounds and run well for a 318. They have a kit for a low deck that includes cam, lifters and springs for $341.00.
Did you determine that the cam is the cause for low compression? I didnt see aNy updates on the thread?
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on February 27, 2017, 09:52:22 PM
Did you determine that the cam is the cause for low compression? I didnt see aNy updates on the thread?
Thanks for the input guys.
I did a hot compression test....same - 37 psi in No. 8.
I took off the valve cover and the rockers.......thought it may be a stuck valve, so gave it a few decent taps, but there wasn't anything noticeable. Pushrods are straight.
Compression never came up when adding oil to the cylinder....pretty confident in a valve problem.
Getting right down to the pipe at the rear exhaust, in between the exhaust note, you can hear a bit of a constant ticking sound. There's also slight "tappetty" noise when the motor is running....diminishes (or less noticeable) at higher revs.
So....Thursday I'm taking it to work, and leaving it with my mechanic behind work - a good guy who knows older cars. He thought valves may have been adjustable, but we know they aren't. Even he said we might be looking at a collapsed lifter, or possibly a worn lobe on the camshaft.....hence my throwing it out there. I mentioned I've had a worn lobe before on a 340.....and on No.8 from memory, but it was a long time ago, and symptoms were heavy fuel use and smokey rear bumper after long trips.
In any case, if it's a lifter, I'd probably be wise to do them all and add a new cam as well. Just want to get the right cam.
Peter
Quote from: Nacho-RT74 on February 27, 2017, 05:57:57 PM
What about the crower 271HDP ? ( or 267 )
Hey Nacho....I'm just doing some research on them now - thanks.
I would again highly recommend airing the cylinder to find the source of the problem before buying parts.
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on February 28, 2017, 06:54:20 AM
I would again highly recommend airing the cylinder to find the source of the problem before buying parts.
Yep.......as soon as I get an adaptor to use the air line with. Going to smash a spark plug tomorrow, weld on an air fitting and see how I go.
In the meantime, I'm just covering bases so I have a plan regardless.
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on February 28, 2017, 06:54:20 AM
I would again highly recommend airing the cylinder to find the source of the problem before buying parts.
Well, I pumped air into No.8 cylinder.....4 times to make sure I had it at T.D.C.....each time I had air coming out the tailpipe.
Quote from: 71 Bee Man on March 01, 2017, 02:14:17 AM
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on February 28, 2017, 06:54:20 AM
I would again highly recommend airing the cylinder to find the source of the problem before buying parts.
Well, I pumped air into No.8 cylinder.....4 times to make sure I had it at T.D.C.....each time I had air coming out the tailpipe.
Thats not a wiped cam. You have a burnt exhaust valve or trashed seat. Bottom line, you need new heads.
I'm agreed
If not a valve itself maybe it's time to install a full set of hardened seats to keep safe from unleaded gas
The cost for valves, springs, retainers, seats and guides and machine work is more then a new set of aluminums though.
Quote from: 71 Bee Man on March 01, 2017, 02:14:17 AM
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on February 28, 2017, 06:54:20 AM
I would again highly recommend airing the cylinder to find the source of the problem before buying parts.
Well, I pumped air into No.8 cylinder.....4 times to make sure I had it at T.D.C.....each time I had air coming out the tailpipe.
if not sure, or the pushrod doesn't ever get loose, loosen the rocker shaft bolts to be sure it's closed.
Have you decided just how far you want to go with this engine at this time?
Hey guys,
I've heard it mentioned a couple of times that alloy heads would be cheaper than restoring mine.....thing is, here in Australia stuff isn't as readily available as it is in the states.
So when you mention a new set of alloy heads......is it a matter of simply buying the whole thing with valves etc ? And if so, where do you suggest ? I
Lo gladly check out what the cost of me importing them myself is. The car is with my mechanic today, just giving me his opinion....he's a good bloke, I trust him.
Quote from: Sublime/Sixpack on March 01, 2017, 07:29:38 PM
Have you decided just how far you want to go with this engine at this time?
I'm not the richest guy in the world, but I am quite happy to pull stuff apart and fix what's broken. I simply want the car to run nice. If I can give it some help with performance along the way without going mad, then that's great. As I've mentioned, it runs quite well, but it annoys the hell out of me that one cylinder isn't running as it should be.
I would get a hard, written quote to fully rebuild your iron heads with 2.14/ 1.8 valves, new seats, new guides, new springs. Then, take that dollar figure and compare it to a set of stealths from 440 source. For about 1000 us dollars you can get an entry level set of heads. 1500 will get a better set. I dont know what the import costs are for you but that should give you an idea.
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on March 01, 2017, 10:20:09 PM
I would get a hard, written quote to fully rebuild your iron heads with 2.14/ 1.8 valves, new seats, new guides, new springs. Then, take that dollar figure and compare it to a set of stealths from 440 source. For about 1000 us dollars you can get an entry level set of heads. 1500 will get a better set. I dont know what the import costs are for you but that should give you an idea.
Thanks for the advice.
Looking at 440source now. Trying to understand what "cc's" relate to etc. sent them an email telling them what's going on. Have found a few places out here that advertise Mopar heads, but honestly.....just don't trust them and not real happy with prices.
Quote from: 71 Bee Man on March 01, 2017, 10:28:56 PM
Looking at 440source now. Trying to understand what "cc's" relate to etc.
Apologies if I misread your question.
The ccs are the chamber volume. These are needed to calculate what the final (static) compression ratio is.
The swept volume of an 383 that is not bored is something like 785 cc.
The compressed volume is calculated by adding the volume of the chamber (the cc's you are asking about) to the volume of the hole in the compressed gasket to the volume created by the piston being down in the block.
You can calculate this by hand but it might be easier to use an online calculator like this one at Wallace racing. http://www.wallaceracing.com/cr_test2.php
The bore is 4.25 if stock and the stroke is 3.325 (both in inches). The stock steel gasket is thinner than the replacement gaskets from Felpro you are likely to use; so things will change if you change gaskets.
I do not know how far down in the hole the pistons usually are for your engine. Someone here will be able to advise, but your engine person should also know or be able to determine them.
Coonhunter gives good advice.
:cheers: thanks for the thumbs up, i would add bsb67, firefighterron, prh, heyoldguy to the list of advice to really take note to when it comes to engine, head and piston selection.
I might be the only guy on this board that doesn't think that a set of new aftermarket heads are the "best" option for a mild 383.
I like the smaller valves and smaller intake runner volume of the OE heads for this type of application.
915's would be my first choice, but I wouldn't spend the money for the cores that most seem to be asking these days.
My next choice, for a mild street motor like we're talking about here would be 516's.
Then any of the 68 and newer open chamber heads if I couldn't find a set of closed chamber heads cheap enough and in decent enough shape for my liking.
Oem replacement valves and springs are pretty cheap.
I'd have a competent machine shop refurbish your heads(or some 516/915 heads), new bronze guides as needed, hardened exhaust seats installed, new springs, new exhaust valves(intakes only if needed), flat milled .030, cut the guide tops for positive Viton seals.
I'm pretty sure that would cost you less down under than buying aftermarket heads.
The reason for the .030 cut is so you can use the "normal" fel pro composition gaskets without losing compression when not using the steel shim gaskets.
Heads like that, along with the other parts you have on the motor, and a Comp 268h would make for a nice running 383.
If the shop doing the head work is capable..... If it's within your budget, have them do a very basic bowl blend.
Assuming 16 bronze guides and 16 new oem replacement type valves, new performance springs, viton seals, including a minor bowl blend(240-250cfm depending on which heads you started with)........ $1150-1200 at my shop.
If they only got 8 ex valves and 8 ex guides, no porting...... $950.
I think one of the least expensive ways to go about it(here in the states), is buy some of the rebuilt Aerohead heads, and just have them gone through locally. $500 or so for the heads......make sure the seats and guides are good, might be $250-300 more.
I would agree on the 516s. Most people throw them away. I had them on my 383 and was in the 12s with it for years. Not sure what the costs would be to rebuild a set for him though.
With the added cubes of a 440........ Then I'm right on board with just going straight to aftermarket aluminum heads.
But, with a low-ish compression 383 in a fairly stock vehicle, I'm not so sure the extra runner volume and bigger valves are doing you any good.
It would make for a fun test.
Quote from: PRH on March 02, 2017, 04:00:24 PM
With the added cubes of a 440........ Then I'm right on board with just going straight to aftermarket aluminum heads.
But, with a low-ish compression 383 in a fairly stock vehicle, I'm not so sure the extra runner volume and bigger valves are doing you any good.
It would make for a fun test.
I made my suggestion based on the relativley low overall co.pression numbers in his other post. If he were stritcly fixing the heads and not touching the bottom end, i would order a set of 516s from aerohead. They sell stock replacements rebuilt for 600 bucks a pair. Since he is talking about a total teardown on the engine, i am planning on more then a low compression 383 going back together. Regardless, the 516s i ran had no professional work done to them and would pull hard to 7000 rpm.
Hi guys.
Here's the thing........I will be pulling the motor out. Mind you, that was always going to happen because I simply wanted to tidy the thing up - sad but true.
But, since I found there is a problem with the head, it makes it easier now to pull stuff off and see what's happening. I'm going to talk to my mechanic as I go, because - like I said - I do trust him.
If I pull her apart and it looks sadly worn everywhere, then I'll get into it. Mind you, I do have to watch how much I spend. I'm actually taking the family to your excellent country in August, so there may very well be a large shopping list of parts. But.......if there's a chance of doing some head work, and maybe a new set of rings or whatever, then I'll go down that route.
It's a nice original Superbee......and whilst many hate the term, she's all "numbers matching" and that is a consideration for me as well. I do like the idea of the stealth heads, but again.....ill see what happens when she finally gets ripped out. I was originally curious about a camshaft because it was possible it may have been worn, but now it looks like it's working ok.
You guys provide so much information - it's fantastic, and whilst I know it might be annoying sometimes when people like myself come on asking this and that, and not sure of stuff, I can tell you the information is invaluable. Especially to someone like myself who has a bit of knowledge about Mopars, but mainly Aussie ones. It's not that easy finding people down here who have the info you do.
I take on board everything that's said, and look forward to pulling the old 383 out and deciding what to do. Hunter.....your PM about a rebuild is great stuff. I'd never even considered it, but am now. And PRH....your angle is good from the perspective that my car is a hobby for me, and as much as it'd be nice to do heaps, sometimes it's good just to get it running right.
Not sure which way I'll end up going, but I will post stuff when I start pulling it apart.
Sounds like a sensible approach. Good luck with it and most of all enjoy the journey. :thumbs:
I have been following your posts and the responses with interest. Much good advice here that is very helpful! Good luck with this!
What part of this country will you be visiting in August?
:cheers:
Quote from: BDF on March 02, 2017, 06:56:23 PM
I have been following your posts and the responses with interest. Much good advice here that is very helpful! Good luck with this!
What part of this country will you be visiting in August?
:cheers:
My wife loves all the Disney stuff, so we're staying in Florida for 3 weeks. We try and get to the states every 3 years or so. This time I'm also taking my mum to Memphis because she's an Elvis nut, but that's only 2 days. We've been to a few different State, but mainly Florida. One of the best trips was hiring a bike and riding L.A to San Francisco with my daughter. Great trip.
That will be some serious Disney time! My wife & her family are from Memphis, been there often. Plan on some 'mugginess'. If you come to the west coast/ North Bay Area next time come see the Napa Valley & go for a drive with me. :2thumbs: :cheers:
Hope you car get worked out before the trip so don't obsess over it at Disney World. :popcrn:
Machine job cost can be way diff from country to country, so MAYBE won't be that expensive for him against couple of heads shipped
Just a little tiny update......whilst I won't be pulling the motor for a little while yet, I've been considering the following.
At the moment I'm waiting for details of a decent head machinist who a couple of other local Mopar guys have used.
Thinking I might as well throw on and Edelbrock Performer RPM 7186......everything I've read suggests that might be good on my old 383. Just wondering if my Holley 3310-4 will fit on it and have enough clearance.
Thinking of a cam, and considering the Crower cam Nacho suggested earlier. Supposed to be good in reasonably stock motors.
That's all so far.
The modification you will likely need is a fairly deep drop base air cleaner assembly to allow for hood clearance with a decently high air filter element. There are a number of these available in 14 inch diameters and some in 16.
Quote from: 71 Bee Man on March 08, 2017, 06:36:09 AM
Thinking of a cam, and considering the Crower cam Nacho suggested earlier. Supposed to be good in reasonably stock motors.
The reason why I like the Crower cams about its competitors is the 112 degrees centerline which supposelly make them a bit more friendly on streets ( not experience but learnt reading here ) even on same or similar durations and lifts with the rest what gets 110 degrees
I have myself the Crower 282HDP, but i built a "451" stroker
aaaaaaaaand to be diff where everybody gets Comps and Lunati. Hate that.
There are some good options on Engle cams. Some years ago there were members here allways giving these as a recommendation, buut they got new grinds made though, diff from the ones back in the day
For your application, I would suggest the standard Performer over the RPM.
:iagree: the rpm is an excellent intake, one of the best all around street intakes. However, in your situation running a stock low compression bottom end, the performer will be a much better match for you when it comes to off jdle thru 2000 rpm performance.
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on March 08, 2017, 09:21:00 PM
:iagree: the rpm is an excellent intake, one of the best all around street intakes. However, in your situation running a stock low compression bottom end, the performer will be a much better match for you when it comes to off jdle thru 2000 rpm performance.
Thanks guys.
Obviously still learning all this. I suggested the RPM simply based on stuff I'd read. Will check out the performer now though. So.....why is the RPM not all that suitable ?
As always, thanks for the input.....great info.
No one manifold is correct or best for everything. The RPM is all the rage in the night performance community. The reality is that the short stroke low compression small cam 400 won't use what that intake can give a Nicely warmed up 440. You're about 100 hp, or more short. You won't be using all of the std Performer, IMO.
But the std performer is still better then the stock iron peice. And definitely use the egr blockoff valley pan
I probably wouldn't "nail down" any decisions on what parts to use until after the heads are off and someone measures how far down the pistons are and checks the chamber volume of the heads, so you have a real idea of what the actual compression is that you'll be dealing with.
Quote from: PRH on March 10, 2017, 02:46:58 PM
I probably wouldn't "nail down" any decisions on what parts to use until after the heads are off and someone measures how far down the pistons are and checks the chamber volume of the heads, so you have a real idea of what the actual compression is that you'll be dealing with.
Update....Bit the bullet tonight and started ripping stuff out of the engine compartment. Wiring, battery, radiator etc etc etc. Its been raining heaps and I thought "damn it.....I'm getting stuck into it".
I've talked so much jibber and asked so many questions that I'm just going to start pulling it apart and having a loom what's going.
I'll keep you posted. Oh......and I drove 6 hours to a car show last weekend, and 6 hours back. Car ran great, but I really notice that darn tickety tick from the valve. That's what made my mind up.