The current generation of (18-25) and earlier ages only see cars as a means of transportation. Take a look of the vehicles on the road today. Toyotas are Kia's are killing us. These kids could care a less about old muscle cars and the old saying of "buy American, be American is gone)...Japan's motto is (Buy Japan "be Japanese")...Where has our world gone. We have failed. PEROID.
JAPAN is killing us and no one seems to cares anymore. :brickwall:
We got sold out, and most of the manufacturing jobs that put the young generation to work went overseas, and with it, disposable income. Bring back the jobs, people have more money, and maybe they'll take an interest in our older cars
:rotz:
Not so. They don't have 30 grand to start a project, give them time to make some coin. :2thumbs:
From a different perspective... if American car companies made anything halfway interesting the kids might have a different outlook. I turned 16 in the 80s so, naturally I gravitated to 60s muscle cars because there wasn't a thing made from the early 70s until then worth having! And that trend followed through the 90s. Really, we had the Grand National and the Mustang finally got some balls back in the late 80s and early 90s. The last Camaros and Firebirds were starting to regain their old glory before they were killed in 2002. I did own a turbo Capri (the one that looked like a Mustang not the one that looked like a Miata) and a Fiero a little later on. Even the foreign cars - including the exotics - through that era weren't awe-inspiring except for the RX-7 twin turbo and Supras. So that 30 year complete lack of anything interesting/performance related is what got "the kids" into modding up Civics (Honda) and 240SXs (Nissan) that no one else wanted. It's also why the muscle cars just keep maintaining/gaining value. There's 50 years of drivers all fighting for the same cars. Be happy there aren't millions more kids trying to buy our cars.
Most kids that I know these days don't even want a car. Except my coworker's son (to her dismay) has been crazy about cars for a few years. He's currently bugging me with helping him find an old 280Z project. He's practical in trying to find a car he thinks is "cool" but also within a budget he can sustain. He's also checked out some Triumph Spitfires and other small convertibles but he's aware they are all gutless. He's already looking into engine swaps just so he can drive a reasonable speed on the highway.
I currently have six Toyota 4x4s. Pretty much bullet proof if you can keep them from rusting here in the Midwest. Cost for parts has gone down drastically since I started buying them while the Chrysler dealer just keep trying to screw me. Trying to find a Ford or Dodge truck made since the 80s around here is tough! The Fords have engine issues, Dodges have electrical and suspension issues - if you can find either that isn't rusted in half. GMs are about the same but I don't follow them closely.
Worldwide Toyota is #3 behind VW and Renault/Nissan and bigger than GM and Ford (although both are ahead in the US market). So, technically, Americans are still buying American - but that may be propped up by the cost of imports. Toyota markets their vehicles in 190 countries. If you ask me, American car companies dropped the ball - not the consumers.
Troy
Quote from: b5blue on September 06, 2018, 06:18:33 PM
Not so. They don't have 30 grand to start a project, give them time to make some coin. :2thumbs:
Truth. I just turned 30 when I had enough cash to buy a relatively clean 69 charger.
Well, as far as the old muscle car popularity is going, It isn't just the young crowd. Go check out a car show. I just went to the drive-in car show and movie. Over 60% of the cars were new. Then I went to the VFW show last weekend. They have more classes for the new cars than the old ones. Over 100 cars there. Classes were for all makes up to 55, 56-69, 70-79 and 80 up. stock and another of the same for modified. Then they had the corvette classes 2 truck classes and the rest of the 26 classes were for new cars. These new cars are owned by people 58 and up. My buddy mike has a 2016 Challenger. He is 59. Terry is 63 with a new mustang. Rows of new Camaros and Corvettes a Hell Cat and 2 Vipers. All turn key. They don't work on them. They just clean them. They walk around the show to see what categories the other cars got into so they know what to list their car in. Again the numbers are over 60% new cars at the show. I see maybe 6 young kids with their rice burners there cleaning and getting ready for the judges. The older group is leaving the old cars behind and buying the new cars. I see the love of the old Muscle cars ending soon.
Most people don't have cash or a credit line to purchase a classic car but can get approval for a new car loan so you see a lot of the new cars at some shows.
As said above....if you built many cars worth buying and priced them right then the young'uns would buy them. This is not just me getting at the US car builders...its the same here. The difference is that the Japanese and other far Eastern nations have already pretty much killed our car industry stone dead. It started going downhill in the late 70s and early 80s....the Unions killed our car factories...even if they will never admit it....too many strikes to try and get pay rises that no one could afford and they usually never got anyway crippled investment and development. That put buyers in a position where they bought an imported car that was cheap, far more reliable and better to drive....or pay over the odds for some rust prone poor handling crap built here....I know what I would have done too....if I had been old enough top drive back then!!!
You guys are lucky enough to still have a big car building industry....but the cars don't appeal to the young drivers.....and not just over there....for a big business you don't export much as your cars are very much styled to US tastes whereas Japanese, Korean....and even German cars are styled to appeal to a much more universal tastes. The only US cars that ever sold in volume here is the Jeep range....now FIAT of course. Old shape Chrysler 300c (with its old style Bentley look) sold great too...then the new version came out looking like a very American car....sales fell flat on their arse. The only volume selling US built car here now in the Mustang (Unfortunately, due to fuel costs most are not V8 5.0 but V6s or the lame 2.2 four one ....a four cylinder Mustang...really!???).
Going back to the original post....I strongly disagree. Classic cars....not just old cars but the elite few that made their mark or changed the way people look at of buy cars...will always be sought after.
Japan and Korea may be killing you....and if you don't build cars the kids want....then is more like suicide than killing....I know....the mass produced car industry here is already all but dead.....and we have no one to blame except ourselves. Hopefully you wont let your car industry go the same way.....and no Mr Trump....massive import duties on an imported metal and cars is NOT the way to do it. You need a level playing field....or your homegrown companies will never be forced into improving productivity, cutting costs, or making a better car that appeals to US buyers young and old.
It's only a matter of time till the greens and social momentum destroy the classic car hobby.
Just like the confederate flag, same sex merriage, straw ban, plastic bag ban it's only inevitable till our cars become too dangerous or hazardous for the planet.
The green party put forward a proposition to ban all cars older than 2002 and ban all fossil fuel cars by 2030.
It's really not hard to do either, look at Japan for example. All the government has to do is raise tax or registration on older cars to the point nobody can afford it. In California I had to pay "gross polluter" tax..... it's only the start.......
Luckily even in our nanny state the government has recently promised to leave classics alone....in fact recently they dropped road tax and annual safety check (MOT) for all car over 40 years old....obviously it will still need to be in a road legal condition if stopped! Obviously this has nothing at all to do with lots of Member of Parliament and the House of Lords owning classics........Such a small % of the cars on UK roads are high polluting classics that's its not really a problem in the grand scheme.
The green thing is always a big issue in overpopulated Europe and UK. As you probably know, no new petrol (Gas!) or diesel powered vehicles will be allowed to be sold after 2040 in the UK...electric or nothing. But fossil fuel cars will not be banned....they will just be allowed to reduce through natural decay, wastage and damage. There are already a lot of cars fully powered by electric on the roads in the UK...and more each day....so by 2040 it wont be much of an issue. Just makes me laugh that the all electric cars say "Zero Emissions" on them. In this country more than half our fuel is still generated by burning fossil fuels....one of the highest pollution sources in the world!!....that's hardly Zero Emissions! But at the rate wind farms are springing up around our coast even that wont be an issue by them. Also had to laugh at the recent list of least reliable cars sold in the UK....third from bottom??? TESLA....what were we saying about the desirability of US cars??....also they are most expensive electrics cars you can buy in the UK so they should be better.
Full electric cars will be much more of an issue for you guys at the moment.....dues to the huge spaces between your cities and the ability to recharge....but with some prototype electric cars claiming close to a 1000 mile range its only a matter of time before that problem disappears.
Its a difficult one for me...I love fast, dirty, dino powered cars, new and old....but also I want a World that's habitable for my boy and (one day) his kids. Does not seem an easy way to have both.
I remember in the late 70's and early 80's I was a kid and guys saying how expensive the model t's and a's were. Now you can buy them done cheap.
More than anything, this is a generational issue. Young car enthusiasts have always pursued the dream cars of their youth and from the posters on their walls. This applied to our fathers. It applied to us. And it applies to the next generation.
Because the cars are flashy, visceral and in our lifetime should remain quite user friendly, there will be some future adopters of 1960's muscle. The cars will not be worthless. But all collectibles have values that ebb and flow. We don't live in a static world. It is reasonable to expect that as we get older and age out of the hobby that fewer new enthusiasts are coming in. You can see this any any car show today by the age of the participants. The high price of admission to classic muscle today certainly limits young people coming in.
30 some years ago while attending car shows / flea markets I thought look at all these gray hair people with these old cars
Always thought it should be a younger crowd with the energy to build and enjoy these toys
Now I am the one getting gray hair but all the kids are now done post secondary schooling and I have spare money again to play with
Think it is all about timing and when you end up with spare money
Cars will always be around to tinker with and as long as we have some kind of fuel to burn the best stuff ( all Chargers :2thumbs: ) will survive well into the future
About the shows... the kids in the ricers aren't likely going to a show full of stuffy old people - not matter what they are driving. Try going to one of their shows and see how well you like it. ;)
Troy
Quote from: ACUDANUT on September 06, 2018, 04:28:18 PM
The current generation of (18-25) and earlier ages only see cars as a means of transportation. Take a look of the vehicles on the road today. Toyotas are Kia's are killing us. These kids could care a less about old muscle cars and the old saying of "buy American, be American is gone)...Japan's motto is (Buy Japan "be Japanese")...Where has our world gone. We have failed. PEROID.
JAPAN is killing us and no one seems to cares anymore. :brickwall:
Wrong decade bro. Japan was the big monster we feared in the
80's and 90's. The boogieman du jour is China.
Quote from: Aero426 on September 07, 2018, 08:40:54 AM
More than anything, this is a generational issue. Young car enthusiasts have always pursued the dream cars of their youth and from the posters on their walls. This applied to our fathers. It applied to us. And it applies to the next generation.
Because the cars are flashy, visceral and in our lifetime should remain quite user friendly, there will be some future adopters of 1960's muscle. The cars will not be worthless. But all collectibles have values that ebb and flow. We don't live in a static world. It is reasonable to expect that as we get older and age out of the hobby that fewer new enthusiasts are coming in. You can see this any any car show today by the age of the participants. The high price of admission to classic muscle today certainly limits young people coming in.
Yep..as cars from those generations become rare and more desirable, prices skyrocket. You old farts with money that are willing to pay six figures for a matching numbers Charger R/T are pricing out us younger guys out of even the lower end of the market (try finding even a decent 318 Duster for less than $5-6K). That's why you don't see many young guys buying classic muscle nowadays, unless it was "dad's car" and now its theirs or if they have a money tree like Cody :icon_smile_big:.
In any event, you nailed it with the generational thing. That's why Fox body mustangs, RX7s, Honda CRX's, and other imports are getting expensive. Those "kids" are now in their 40's and have money to get the car they always wanted.
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 07, 2018, 12:44:38 PM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on September 06, 2018, 04:28:18 PM
The current generation of (18-25) and earlier ages only see cars as a means of transportation. Take a look of the vehicles on the road today. Toyotas are Kia's are killing us. These kids could care a less about old muscle cars and the old saying of "buy American, be American is gone)...Japan's motto is (Buy Japan "be Japanese")...Where has our world gone. We have failed. PEROID.
JAPAN is killing us and no one seems to cares anymore. :brickwall:
Wrong decade bro. Japan was the big monster we feared in the 80's and 90's. The boogieman du jour is China.
Quote from: Aero426 on September 07, 2018, 08:40:54 AM
More than anything, this is a generational issue. Young car enthusiasts have always pursued the dream cars of their youth and from the posters on their walls. This applied to our fathers. It applied to us. And it applies to the next generation.
Because the cars are flashy, visceral and in our lifetime should remain quite user friendly, there will be some future adopters of 1960's muscle. The cars will not be worthless. But all collectibles have values that ebb and flow. We don't live in a static world. It is reasonable to expect that as we get older and age out of the hobby that fewer new enthusiasts are coming in. You can see this any any car show today by the age of the participants. The high price of admission to classic muscle today certainly limits young people coming in.
Yep..as cars from those generations become rare and more desirable, prices skyrocket. You old farts with money that are willing to pay six figures for a matching numbers Charger R/T are pricing out us younger guys out of even the lower end of the market (try finding even a decent 318 Duster for less than $5-6K). That's why you don't see many young guys buying classic muscle nowadays, unless it was "dad's car" and now its theirs or if they have a money tree like Cody :icon_smile_big:.
In any event, you nailed it with the generational thing. That's why Fox body mustangs, RX7s, Honda CRX's, and other imports are getting expensive. Those "kids" are now in their 40's and have money to get the car they always wanted.
Really, what cars are made in China ("The boogieman du jour is China. ")
I was talking about the newest generation of 18-25. Where did I mention 40 plus. ? Cars are nothing but a mode of transportation in their eyes with MPG on their mind. This hobby of our is dying quicker than you think.
Quote from: Troy on September 07, 2018, 12:37:29 PM
About the shows... the kids in the ricers aren't likely going to a show full of stuffy old people - not matter what they are driving. Try going to one of their shows and see how well you like it. ;)
Troy
We actually have several young kids showing at our shows and have foreign car classes. I respect these kids because they get up early and clean their cars just like the old guys do. At our dare show there were about 20 of them. Now I did show up for a "cruise the river road" run put on by some young people and I was the outsider. The only muscle car there. They never did leave the parking lot before I got tired and headed out on my own. They were happy with just sitting in the parking lot and looking at each others cars.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on September 07, 2018, 01:49:44 PM
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 07, 2018, 12:44:38 PM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on September 06, 2018, 04:28:18 PM
The current generation of (18-25) and earlier ages only see cars as a means of transportation. Take a look of the vehicles on the road today. Toyotas are Kia's are killing us. These kids could care a less about old muscle cars and the old saying of "buy American, be American is gone)...Japan's motto is (Buy Japan "be Japanese")...Where has our world gone. We have failed. PEROID.
JAPAN is killing us and no one seems to cares anymore. :brickwall:
Wrong decade bro. Japan was the big monster we feared in the 80's and 90's. The boogieman du jour is China.
Quote from: Aero426 on September 07, 2018, 08:40:54 AM
More than anything, this is a generational issue. Young car enthusiasts have always pursued the dream cars of their youth and from the posters on their walls. This applied to our fathers. It applied to us. And it applies to the next generation.
Because the cars are flashy, visceral and in our lifetime should remain quite user friendly, there will be some future adopters of 1960's muscle. The cars will not be worthless. But all collectibles have values that ebb and flow. We don't live in a static world. It is reasonable to expect that as we get older and age out of the hobby that fewer new enthusiasts are coming in. You can see this any any car show today by the age of the participants. The high price of admission to classic muscle today certainly limits young people coming in.
Yep..as cars from those generations become rare and more desirable, prices skyrocket. You old farts with money that are willing to pay six figures for a matching numbers Charger R/T are pricing out us younger guys out of even the lower end of the market (try finding even a decent 318 Duster for less than $5-6K). That's why you don't see many young guys buying classic muscle nowadays, unless it was "dad's car" and now its theirs or if they have a money tree like Cody :icon_smile_big:.
In any event, you nailed it with the generational thing. That's why Fox body mustangs, RX7s, Honda CRX's, and other imports are getting expensive. Those "kids" are now in their 40's and have money to get the car they always wanted.
Really, what cars are made in China ("The boogieman du jour is China. ")
I was talking about the newest generation of 18-25. Where did I mention 40 plus. ? Cars are nothing but a mode of transportation in their eyes with MPG on their mind. This hobby of our is dying quicker than you think.
What do you have against Japan anyway?
I am over 50, but still a kid at heart.
If you want someone to appreciate your 'old' ride when you pass on, feel free to add my name to your will. :cheers:
Who cares? You'd have to be dead first for it to affect you...and at that point nothing will!
With everything that's going on in the world, what cars kids care about if any is seriously my last effin' concern.
OP needs a "full release" massage to clear his head. WHO is willing to take one for the team? :rofl:
I can see the point but I don't see it as gloomy as the OP does.
For a couple decades vintage muscle continued to rule. Now that you can simply buy car that is faster (and more comfortable,...... and more fuel efficient,..... and safer,..... and full of gadgets,... and you don't have to work on all the time....), why should we be surprised that there is lessening interest in old iron?
HI Everyone!
Quote from: ACUDANUT on September 06, 2018, 04:28:18 PM
The current generation of (18-25) and earlier ages only see cars as a means of transportation. Take a look of the vehicles on the road today. Toyotas are Kia's are killing us.
Don't agree, look at the aftermarket for performance/custom parts for those rice grinders; that belies the claim that the youth only see cars as transportation.
And the fact that they're buying rice leaves the muscle/collectors for us old farts; win/win.
The value of these cars will come down drastically at some point. We may see it or we may not in our lifetime. As each generation moves forward what is valuable to one generation may not be to another. The model T is a good example. Who here wants one? Show of hands...am I the only one?
When my grandfather was alive he wanted a 1917 Model T touring car. At one time they were expensive and even costlier to restore. He could not afford one. He died never being able to afford what is cheap today. After his passing I looked at buying a restored one that was out of a museum for 8k. They are impractical and almost useless today unless you hold fond memories of them. That is the cycle everything falls into. I own military vehicles that elderly collectors were grateful to sell me because no one wanted them anymore but they were worth decent money just 20 years ago.
Any model railroaders here or is it just me? The hobby Is dying because with video games kids are not taking to it. Video games are cheap instant gratification, trains are not. Trains are dirt cheap at train shows now because of all the stuff that used to be a joy to some poor chap who has passed is not desired by the masses anymore. I bought stuff for penny's on the dollar to build my youngest son a train layout at the last train show. The same cycle compounded by the massive tech advances from the last 35 years affects cars too. Cars are no longer freedom, they get online to escape the everyday. So there is no bond with a car today like we had. My step kids throw cars away every few years never even having named them. The fact that my cars have names is dumb to them, like naming the toaster. They are an appliance that only needs to look good for social media and have an affordable payment.
Cheap instant gratification....that's the main problem. New cars are a status symbol today and every car show I attend will have several new cars in it, all owned by the bank. Credit is easy and after a simple signature your in the club.
THAT IS WHERE THINGS ARE AT TODAY
I was asked to join a car club by a guy at a gas staton who saw my new Challenger. I bit and went to a huge car show they were trying to pack. I drove my 1960 Belvedere. They had no interest and wanted to know where the "Chally" was. I said "in my driveway where it belongs this is a car show". I moved into the old car section only to learn everyone over there calls the new car area the "donor car section". The old car guys appreciate all cars and walk around looking at stuff and socializing, while the next generation only seemed to stand in front of what they bought wanting to show it off.
Without the emotional attachment earlier generations have with cars the demand will fall. Cars are less of a priority and more of an expense. There is no way around it. Sadly your great grand child might trade your hemi car for a new sofa and think it was a bargain.
Well that cheered me up!.....thanks for that!!
Maybe it's because I internalized this stuff already, but it doesn't really bug me.
What does "the future" even mean? 100 years? 500 years? In the end we're all dust.
About a year ago Doug Schellinger wrote an excellent summary in the Aero Club newsletter about the future of the car hobby. I agreed almost completely with what he said then and where things are now and are going. He commented that the rare wings and hemis will always retain an unknown value just because of their rarity, that the rest would not. I spent the entire weekend at Mecum (Louisville) bidding on several cars and buying none. Here are my observations:
This was my 1st time at a live Mecum or BJ auction. I am glad that I went-the show itself was amazing for the production, co-ordination and friendliness of the Mecum folks. The cars however left a lot to be desired. I went expecting to see a car show environment where everything was clean, polished and "attempted-to-be-perfect" and I saw a lot of fresh paint over unknown bodies, engine compartments & interiors jack legged over 30 years and an occasional diamond in the rough. The Hemi GTX 4-speed that I went to look at was numbers matching but had a new coat of paint over some pretty strong bondo work in the bottom of the fenders, pitted tail lamp lenses and rear panels and enough little issues that to me showed lack of pride in ownership. It went for $100k if you add buyer's premium which I felt was probably fair, just too rich for me.
I agree on the rare cars holding some value-probably not where they are today, but going up slowly just because of rare numbers.
Mecum's buyers in person, and on TV are older for the most part, but in their 40's for the special cars which do still hold some interest.
Nearly every resto-mod did not sell. I believe that is because they were resto-modded to the current owner's desires (fine), but not with an eye to resell. Dual quads just don't get it in an era of EFI and Superchargers. Lowered cars look good on TV but are not streetable. The under age 50 buyers don't want roller cams and undriveable race cars, they want smooth power, driveability and modern conveniences of a/c, bluetooth, cruise and dependability, and I can't fault them for it
The market always changes, but the realities are that if you have an older car enjoy it for yourself, do what you want to re-create the dream, but don't plan on making any of it back. Funny thing is I've been living that prediction for 40 years, and would not want to know how much I've thrown away in them, having determined it has all been worth it. When I kick the bucket my son will be presented with an auction decision but his Dad will have enjoyed the heck out of them, been proven to be pretty eccentric and royally pissed off his daughter-in-law who somehow believes Dad's money is her money.
Changing my onscreen handle to Crazy Bob soon, right after next summer's Alaska highway recreation in the 4-speed Blue Bird.
:2thumbs:
on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.
Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy 30 supras.
:brickwall:
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 10, 2018, 11:12:29 AM
on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytons and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. I about 70/30 went for supra. Guys late 30s 40's.
not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy 30 supras.
:brickwall:
:2thumbs: :2thumbs:
While I understand the OPs sentiment, my personal experience has been different. I drive my car quite a bit and everybody just stops in their tracks. Kids (teens to 30) come out of the wood work to walk over and see it. Some know what it is and some just think I'm Vin Diesel... Also, the way I see it, any money spent on the car hobby is good for everyone who loves cars, regardless of make/model. Somebody spending $ at PepBoys to add fake fender vents and lowering springs is a signal to the aftermarket that people are still interested in modifying their cars and that does have a positive impact on us.
I also think that these cars will continue to be valuable, given that we now have the capability to make them reliable and safer to drive. Everything done to my car is completely reversible, should my family decide to sell it when I'm in the dirt. We drove it to the Auto Fair in Charlotte this weekend and it was solid as a rock. I cruised at 75 on the highway, at 2400 RPM (OD trans), started every time and no vapor lock in traffic (FAST EFI), braked consistently (4 wheels discs and Hydroboost) and hugged the road (upgraded T-bar suspension and 17" wheels). I think if anything, the RestoMod trend will mean that these cars will continue to be appreciated, which will lead to $. Also, look at it like this. Every time a car reaches the point where it's only attainable by a few, the cars that are similar and from the same era start to rise in value (GNX to GN to T-Type/Turbo T, for example). These things will be around, they represent something that just doesn't exist anymore and ALL people know it. Enjoy your rig. Go drive the piss out of it and when you're done with the car, I guarantee someone will want to take your place in the drivers seat.
I'll tell you what, in 10 years, I'll pull out the 440 and place a battery tray under the car. From there, I'll put massive speakers in the grill and under the rear bumper and blast the engine noise! It'll still be more special than any of the plastic fantastic they'll be pumping out by then. Lastly, I put my money where my opinion is. I had the Charger and two HCs at the same time. A few months later both HCs are gone. While they were great, they just didn't make as happy as driving the old car. There is nothing like these things and there probably never will be.
Regards,
John
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 10, 2018, 11:12:29 AM
on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.
Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy 30 supras.
:brickwall:
Have you priced a Supra recently?
Troy
Quote from: Troy on September 10, 2018, 12:10:19 PM
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 10, 2018, 11:12:29 AM
on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.
Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy 30 supras.
:brickwall:
Have you priced a Supra recently?
Troy
(https://static.carthrottle.com/workspace/uploads/comments/1381823cc658f075e4a2248de0abb320.jpg)
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 10, 2018, 11:12:29 AM
on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.
Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy 30 supras.
:brickwall:
Which car would you choose might have meant to own and drive, not to sell for profit. So yeah, that Supra should win.
Quote from: Troy on September 10, 2018, 12:10:19 PM
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 10, 2018, 11:12:29 AM
on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.
Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy 30 supras.
:brickwall:
Have you priced a Supra recently?
Exactly. The early 1990's Supra is the next generation's Hemi Charger. Unmessed with early 90's Supra's are expensive. It doesn't mean you have to like them. But those cars have been special since the time production stopped.
Numbers cars (mainly the top few percent, not every 440 car built) are collectible. Their value is probably not in much danger. It may fall from its peak but it will always have a fair amount of value.
Everyone understands that an original Superman comic book or Babe Ruth baseball card is valuable. No matter how boring you might think comics/baseball is, you still wouldn't use something like that to wipe up a paint spill in the garage. You know other people value it even if you don't.
Non-numbers cars are worth whatever their tangible value is. In the ballpark of whatever you would need to buy/build a copy of it. When more cars hit the market their values will be falling.
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 10, 2018, 11:12:29 AM
on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.
Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy 30 supras.
:brickwall:
Landslide...yes, surprised...no! Most guys 40 & older don't even have a Facebook account. Demographically that's also where most of the disposable income is. :Twocents:
The Supra winning and Vin Diesel comment make sense to me. They are still fresh memories for many starting to miss their youth.
Much of the attachment to our cars comes from the tv and memories of the era we grew up in. Those that grew up in the era where the muscle cars were all over the streets have emotional ties to them. The same can be said about the next generation that watched The Dukes of Hazzard growing up. Muscle cars were attainable on the used cars market. As these cars dried up the next generation grew up driving Honda Civics and mini trucks. Fast forward a little and the Fast and Furious stuff started coming out. Cool and affordable were no longer tired muscle cars. It was rediculous stereo systems and lowered imports. Today it's the latest greatest. I see idiots trade in cars that are a year old just to have "an 18". It's all about "the new" and " the mods" not the car.
What they see on tv affects this drastically. My 12 year old son is dead set on a 73 El Camino for his first car. He likes the "my name is Earl car". All his other suggestions are newer vehicles because that is what he sees on the road around him and on tv. My cars are "weird looking" to him. How this relates to the Charger is they are not as likely to be used on screen anymore. Hollywood is shifting to product placement to convince you to buy the latest greatest. Muscle cars are no longer the go to hero/villian vehicle.
I have a car collection that is as random as it gets. Each car gets very different reactions from very different groups. Here are a few from different era's. How the Charger compares to these cars I would very interested to hear!
1960 Plymouth Belvedere
It gets looks and a few questions at the pump. That's about it. People ask what year Cadillac it is or I get Christine people that tell me to paint it red. Some people ask what a Plymouth is. The only people that go nuts over the car are in their 80's. They remember them and tell me stories of having one years ago. That is a rare treat. As they die off, the memories dissapear, the interest falls and the prices have dropped off along with them. Interest is falling, cars are few.
1974 AMC Gremlin
The car I thought no body would like or look at is the most popular and when I drive it I get followed for miles, every traffic light someone wants to talk, the car is almost a celebrity. Of course idiots yell "Wayne's World" even though its not a pacer. The story is always the same. "I drove one in college and have not seen one in years". I have had women sit in the front seat and just picture it was the disco era again. It's really unreal the amount of interest this car has on the road. The flip side to this is, all the other Gremlins died off while the people and memories remain. Cars that I spent a few dollars on are getting trendy and going for thousands. You can still find some cheap but not like 10 years ago. Interest is climbing, cars are few.
1983 Mercury Colony Park Station Wagon
I love this car with its glorious amounts of wood grain. It gets more attention than the 60 Belvedere. People always talk about vacations in the 80's or sitting in the "way back". I have had a random guy at Home Depot ask to see the flip up seats. They were much smaller than he remembered. This car believe it or not gets a lot of attention today. Is the "Family Truckster" or grandma's car or some other fond memory. These cars are dirt cheap but very tough to find in good shape. As they continue to dry up the value will go up some. The majority of people with interest in the car never owned one, they were kids sticking Fruit Loops in their nose on the way to Disney. Interest is low, cars are few.
2010 Challenger R/T
This car is pretty but it's still a dog. It gets a lot of attention from people in there teens to 30's. People ask about it and to me "it's just a new car". There are thousands of them but it gets attention and questions. "I want one, what's the hp, how fast is it," etc. It gets more attention than the Belvedere and that makes me want to cry. Interest is high, cars are plentiful.
1968 Dodge Charger
You guys tell me. Mines a piece of crap right now.
Interest is high ,cars are few.
The Chargers are falling from memory but turning into an icon. For most people the only ones they may ever see are on TV. If they disappear from TV they will start to fade into the past like my Belvedere has done. In 20 years I bet the Gremlin will get very little attention on the road as the people that remember them are no longer out there. I think that is why my Belvedere is worth half of what a 57 Chevy is. The Chevy is so over exsposed that everyone knows what they are and that keeps up the interest with the masses. I am the old car guy in our friends circle so I have had friends kids ask me about owning 57 Chevys and VW beetles when cant change a tire on the 3 yr old SUV they own. It blew their minds when they referred to my wife's 09 Charger as the 1st charger body and I informed them they made them in the 60's!
Quote from: ACUDANUT on September 06, 2018, 04:28:18 PM
The current generation of (18-25) and earlier ages only see cars as a means of transportation. Take a look of the vehicles on the road today. Toyotas are Kia's are killing us. These kids could care a less about old muscle cars and the old saying of "buy American, be American is gone)...Japan's motto is (Buy Japan "be Japanese")...Where has our world gone. We have failed. PEROID.
JAPAN is killing us and no one seems to cares anymore. :brickwall:
If the "Buy American" thing is fading from youth ?
IMO,
I think that's because
everything, Engines, Components & Parts seem to be built pretty much
anywhere ? and then "Assembled" where-ever they need to be ?
Just because a Chevy is
BUILT and
SOLD in CHINA..... does that mean it's "American" to the Chinese ? The 6 spd Transmissions come from Opel Germany and the Engines supplied from South Korea
IMO, Cars
Made in the USA would seem to be about as an "American" made Purchase as can be had these days to me ?
* Honda East Liberty Auto Plant, East Liberty Ohio, Honda CR-V and Acura RDX
* Honda Manufacturing of Indiana Plant, Greensburg Indiana, Honda Civic, Honda CR-V (2017-), Honda Insight (2019-)[2]
* Honda Manufacturing of Alabama Plant, Lincoln Alabama, Honda Odyssey, Honda Pilot, Honda Ridgeline, Acura MDX, Honda J engine
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing Mississippi, Inc., (TMMMS) is located in Blue Springs. Vehicle manufacture and assembly – Corolla.
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing Kentucky, Inc., (TMMK) is located in Georgetown. Engine manufacture – 2GR-FE and 2AR-FE. Vehicle manufacture and assembly – Camry, Hybrid Camry, Avalon, Avalon Hybrid, and Lexus ES.
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing Texas, Inc (TMMTX) is located in San Antonio. Vehicle manufacture and assembly – Tundra & Tacoma.
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing Indiana, Inc. (TMMI) is located in Princeton, Indiana. Vehicle manufacture and assembly – Sequoia, Sienna, Highlander & Highlander Hybrid.
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing Alabama, Inc. (TMMAL), is located in Huntsville. Engine manufacture 1GR-FE, 1UR-FE and 3UR-FE. Engines mostly for TMMTX and some TMMI.
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing West Virginia, Inc. (TMMWV), is located in Buffalo. Engine manufacture 2GR-FE, 2ZR-FE and 1AR-FE.
* Kia Motors Manufacturing Georgia (KMMG), West Point Georgia, 300,000 Cars Yearly
* Hyundai Motors Manufacturing Alabama, Montgomery, Alabama, Hyundai Elantra, Hyundai Sonata, Hyundai Santa Fe
Lots of good points in here. I'll bring up another that was touched on. Eventually as technology catches up. Gas stations will be replaced by quick recharge stations, and fuel will get harder to find, plagued by contaminants and probably expensive.
Electric is going to eventually be the way it goes, but the technology breakthrough hasn't happened yet for how to make energy in a small package, or store larger amounts in a small package. But when it does, there will be a periodic shift over 20+ years and gas stations will become like Blockbusters and movie rental stores, kept around for the very few who still refuse to move on (like me)
Both great points. A lot of the buy American is fading as well because they are not "cool" and still have a reputation as bad quality. My wife and I both have newer Dodge's an 09 and a 10. They both have well over 100k trouble free miles on them. We have had people surprised by this. They refuse to believe that reliability come's from domestic manufacturers, not just Toyota, Honda and Kia.
A friend of mine sells cars, he says the first step after a purchase today to to post it online before you even get out of the dealer! Younger buyers generally know what they want from online research and are sold before the first drive. The payment is the only real negotiation. American cars are not seen as cool either. He says it's rare for someone under 30 to be interested in domestic unless it's a truck. That market is getting tougher as well. He said foreign manufacturers are not building better vehicles, they are building more popular vehicles and brand loyalty is no more.
The gas stations dissappearing and being replaced by charging stations is a real threat as more people make the transition to electric. I think that is decades away but charging stations will be popping up. I have seen 2 occasions with people trying to push a Tesla. Quite entertaining. I think they lock down when dead. Both cars left on flatbeds. I'll stick with gasoline.
Quote from: Troy on September 10, 2018, 12:10:19 PM
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 10, 2018, 11:12:29 AM
on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.
Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy 30 supras.
:brickwall:
Have you priced a Supra recently?
Troy
I was thinking 30k
Actually less than i thought. This is in canuck pesos too.
Disclaimer i know jack about these things lol
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 11, 2018, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: Troy on September 10, 2018, 12:10:19 PM
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 10, 2018, 11:12:29 AM
on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.
Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy 30 supras.
:brickwall:
Have you priced a Supra recently?
Troy
I was thinking 30k
Actually less than i thought. This is in canuck pesos too.
Disclaimer i know jack about these things lol
You didn't try hard. ;) At least pick a comparable car (ie not the Mac Daddy vs a clapped out base model). Try this:
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JT2DE82A6V0037268
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JT2JA82JXS0025862
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JT2JA82J2R0019239
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-Toyota-Supra-6-Speed-Turbo-Hard-Top-1351-HP-2JZ/223121463807?hash=item33f31359ff:g:NlAAAOSwGCNbhaiH&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Toyota-Supra/113220650489?hash=item1a5c7a05f9:g:nXAAAOSwofFbgf6j&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Toyota-Supra-Turbo/253851292042?hash=item3b1ab7518a:g:4CQAAOSwt5dbb2Cg&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Toyota-Supra-Twin-Turbo-Hatchback-2-Door/223136897065?hash=item33f3fed829:g:5N8AAOSwsl9blDIY&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Toyota-Supra-Turbo/132775146608?hash=item1eea03f470:g:GXQAAOSwMPxbi9Ds&vxp=mtr
Troy
Quote from: ACUDANUT on September 06, 2018, 04:28:18 PM
The current generation of (18-25) and earlier ages only see cars as a means of transportation. Take a look of the vehicles on the road today. Toyotas are Kia's are killing us. These kids could care a less about old muscle cars and the old saying of "buy American, be American is gone)...Japan's motto is (Buy Japan "be Japanese")...Where has our world gone. We have failed. PEROID.
JAPAN is killing us and no one seems to cares anymore. :brickwall:
Sorry. If I take your subject line literally that our "old cars are going to mean nothing" I have to disagree with you. Maybe Sad for your specific situation but not everybody's and not for mine. What about the families that pass on vehicles to sons, daughters, grandkids etc that actually want them? My 3 kids have always been around my Charger since they were born and now as teenagers they see it more than a means of transportation. They have memories of the car not because it had a 440 six pack and a 4 speed but they will remember working on it in the garage with me when they were little and going to shows and spending time with the family in it and the memories it made for them.
I compare it to the antique clock I have hanging on my wall at home, It was my Grandfather's passed along to my father who had it for 40 years and now given to me. My kids don't look at it and consider it just a means to tell time and don't want to throw it away because their Iphone can tell time just as well.
This is just me and my experience, maybe me and my family are rare in thinking this way..
Now if you are talking a 100 years from now... by then, the stories will be forgotten, the pictures likely gone and yes, the cars will likely mean nothing.
Quoteon a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.
Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy 30 supras.
Something just occurred to me about this poll -
A '69 Hemi
Daytona. Not a regular 2nd-gen.
That would reduce the appeal, especially outside Mopar/muscle circles. Chrysler didn't build wing cars to look good. It's much more of a niche item than a regular 2nd-gen.
To put it another way - Do you want
your 2nd-gen to be a Daytona clone? I'm not asking whether you respect/admire Daytonas on principle.
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 11, 2018, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: Troy on September 10, 2018, 12:10:19 PM
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 10, 2018, 11:12:29 AM
on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.
Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy 30 supras.
:brickwall:
Have you priced a Supra recently?
Troy
I was thinking 30k
Actually less than i thought. This is in canuck pesos too.
Disclaimer i know jack about these things lol
But that white car is far from stock. Just like a Charger, stock and unmodified is where the money is going to be in the future.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on September 11, 2018, 11:27:15 PM
To put it another way - Do you want your 2nd-gen to be a Daytona clone?
Sure would, I wouldn't have it any other way... :nana:
QuoteSure would, I wouldn't have it any other way... nana
I was waiting for that. ;D
Screenshots from the latest Forza game (2018). Kids know a kickass car when they see one.
There are lot more awesome performance cars to choose from in 2018 than there was in the 70s. It makes perfect sense that 60s iron would be a smaller slice of the pie now compared to 30-40 years ago, but there is still a healthy car culture.
They weren't worth anything when I got into the hobby in the mid-70's so I'm not too worried about them being worth anything when I get out of it. I figure I'll cash out of the old car hobby when I die so... ;)
Quote from: funknut on September 12, 2018, 07:05:21 PM
Screenshots from the latest Forza game (2018). Kids know a kickass car when they see one.
There are lot more awesome performance cars to choose from in 2018 than there was in the 70s. It makes perfect sense that 60s iron would be a smaller slice of the pie now compared to 30-40 years ago, but there is still a healthy car culture.
Just keeps fueling the 2nd Gen frenzy! :2thumbs:
Quote from: Ghoste on September 13, 2018, 08:04:51 AM
They weren't worth anything when I got into the hobby in the mid-70's so I'm not too worried about them being worth anything when I get out of it. I figure I'll cash out of the old car hobby when I die so... ;)
Likewise!
Quote from: Aero426 on September 12, 2018, 09:01:18 AM
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 11, 2018, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: Troy on September 10, 2018, 12:10:19 PM
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 10, 2018, 11:12:29 AM
on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.
Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy 30 supras.
:brickwall:
Have you priced a Supra recently?
Troy
I was thinking 30k
Actually less than i thought. This is in canuck pesos too.
Disclaimer i know jack about these things lol
But that white car is far from stock. Just like a Charger, stock and unmodified is where the money is going to be in the future.
Ad said stock and im clueless about them lol.
Quote from: Troy on September 11, 2018, 01:14:37 PM
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 11, 2018, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: Troy on September 10, 2018, 12:10:19 PM
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 10, 2018, 11:12:29 AM
on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.
Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy 30 supras.
:brickwall:
Have you priced a Supra recently?
Troy
I was thinking 30k
Actually less than i thought. This is in canuck pesos too.
Disclaimer i know jack about these things lol
You didn't try hard. ;) At least pick a comparable car (ie not the Mac Daddy vs a clapped out base model). Try this:
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JT2DE82A6V0037268
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JT2JA82JXS0025862
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JT2JA82J2R0019239
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-Toyota-Supra-6-Speed-Turbo-Hard-Top-1351-HP-2JZ/223121463807?hash=item33f31359ff:g:NlAAAOSwGCNbhaiH&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Toyota-Supra/113220650489?hash=item1a5c7a05f9:g:nXAAAOSwofFbgf6j&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Toyota-Supra-Turbo/253851292042?hash=item3b1ab7518a:g:4CQAAOSwt5dbb2Cg&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Toyota-Supra-Twin-Turbo-Hatchback-2-Door/223136897065?hash=item33f3fed829:g:5N8AAOSwsl9blDIY&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Toyota-Supra-Turbo/132775146608?hash=item1eea03f470:g:GXQAAOSwMPxbi9Ds&vxp=mtr
Troy
I think i just puked in my mouth a little bit. Thanks Troy lol
Are those Japanese skylines worth even more than these supras ?
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 14, 2018, 10:18:38 AM
Quote from: Troy on September 11, 2018, 01:14:37 PM
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 11, 2018, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: Troy on September 10, 2018, 12:10:19 PM
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 10, 2018, 11:12:29 AM
on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.
Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy 30 supras.
:brickwall:
Have you priced a Supra recently?
Troy
I was thinking 30k
Actually less than i thought. This is in canuck pesos too.
Disclaimer i know jack about these things lol
You didn't try hard. ;) At least pick a comparable car (ie not the Mac Daddy vs a clapped out base model). Try this:
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JT2DE82A6V0037268
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JT2JA82JXS0025862
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JT2JA82J2R0019239
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-Toyota-Supra-6-Speed-Turbo-Hard-Top-1351-HP-2JZ/223121463807?hash=item33f31359ff:g:NlAAAOSwGCNbhaiH&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Toyota-Supra/113220650489?hash=item1a5c7a05f9:g:nXAAAOSwofFbgf6j&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Toyota-Supra-Turbo/253851292042?hash=item3b1ab7518a:g:4CQAAOSwt5dbb2Cg&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Toyota-Supra-Twin-Turbo-Hatchback-2-Door/223136897065?hash=item33f3fed829:g:5N8AAOSwsl9blDIY&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Toyota-Supra-Turbo/132775146608?hash=item1eea03f470:g:GXQAAOSwMPxbi9Ds&vxp=mtr
Troy
I think i just puked in my mouth a little bit. Thanks Troy lol
Are those Japanese skylines worth even more than these supras ?
Maybe? I don't know. I like Supras - hate Skylines. Of course, I have a pile of Toyotas (trucks) so it's easier to keep up with them just from brand crossover talk.
Troy
Quote from: Troy on September 14, 2018, 10:34:48 AM
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 14, 2018, 10:18:38 AM
Quote from: Troy on September 11, 2018, 01:14:37 PM
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 11, 2018, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: Troy on September 10, 2018, 12:10:19 PM
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 10, 2018, 11:12:29 AM
on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.
Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy 30 supras.
:brickwall:
Have you priced a Supra recently?
Troy
I was thinking 30k
Actually less than i thought. This is in canuck pesos too.
Disclaimer i know jack about these things lol
You didn't try hard. ;) At least pick a comparable car (ie not the Mac Daddy vs a clapped out base model). Try this:
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JT2DE82A6V0037268
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JT2JA82JXS0025862
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JT2JA82J2R0019239
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-Toyota-Supra-6-Speed-Turbo-Hard-Top-1351-HP-2JZ/223121463807?hash=item33f31359ff:g:NlAAAOSwGCNbhaiH&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Toyota-Supra/113220650489?hash=item1a5c7a05f9:g:nXAAAOSwofFbgf6j&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Toyota-Supra-Turbo/253851292042?hash=item3b1ab7518a:g:4CQAAOSwt5dbb2Cg&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Toyota-Supra-Twin-Turbo-Hatchback-2-Door/223136897065?hash=item33f3fed829:g:5N8AAOSwsl9blDIY&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Toyota-Supra-Turbo/132775146608?hash=item1eea03f470:g:GXQAAOSwMPxbi9Ds&vxp=mtr
Troy
I think i just puked in my mouth a little bit. Thanks Troy lol
Are those Japanese skylines worth even more than these supras ?
Maybe? I don't know. I like Supras - hate Skylines. Of course, I have a pile of Toyotas (trucks) so it's easier to keep up with them just from brand crossover talk.
Troy
Hava a rav 4 and a matrix in driveway i hear ya. They are tough and simple.
Quote from: charger_fan_4ever on September 14, 2018, 10:18:38 AM
Are those Japanese skylines worth even more than these supras ?
They can be, especially since up until very recently they were next to impossible to legally import into the U.S. They have a near mythical following because of video games (gran turismo, etc).
(https://www.rightdriveusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/nissan-skyline-gtr-r34-1.jpg)
Older guys grew up around cheap Chevy sedans. They dreamed about the Corvettes of the era.
Younger guys grew up around cheap Toyota sedans. They dreamed about the Supras of the era.
I will propose an alternative question to the original posters outlook..are older guys to used to muscle cars being universally respected?
I think it would be cooler if less people were interested in cars, prices on 68-70 chargers would drop, and it would be more of a cult following, rather then a money trip..
It would be similar scene, to the early hot rod era of the 1930's and 40's, when car guys were just punks that upset society.
My 70 is like the family dog. Not for sale, it is what it is. (Repaired and patched up, not "Restored" so value is irrelevant.) Born in 1955 I watched, too young to own during the heyday. It was not fuel but insurance costs that killed muscle cars by the time I could buy in the 70's. When enough stupid drivers screw up the new era of muscle insurance will kill sales again. I see "Micro Cars" sell for 180,000.00? Old VW's bring 80,000.00? We had that stuff around in the 60's and 70's and it was and is crap to live with day in and day out. It's a different economy so different value for the younger. My kids waited till well into twenty's to get cars. Most can't find a way to own a home much less a old car.
(http://imagehosting.rodsnsods.co.uk/40915b9f84480ad37.jpg)
I may be unique on here as I own both old Mopars and an R32 GTR. Being 59, I have never held a Playstation, let alone played one, so that often used 'Gran Turismo' comparison does not apply to me.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on September 06, 2018, 04:28:18 PM
The current generation of (18-25) and earlier ages only see cars as a means of transportation. Take a look of the vehicles on the road today. Toyotas are Kia's are killing us. These kids could care a less about old muscle cars and the old saying of "buy American, be American is gone)...Japan's motto is (Buy Japan "be Japanese")...Where has our world gone. We have failed. PEROID.
JAPAN is killing us and no one seems to cares anymore. :brickwall:
I totally agree with you. Never owned a Japanese vehicle, never will. I find it unpatriotic.
Lot's of hypocrites out there, say they are PATRIOTS, chant MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, then drive Japanese cars.
Quote
I totally agree with you. Never owned a Japanese vehicle, never will. I find it unpatriotic.
Lot's of hypocrites out there, say they are PATRIOTS, chant MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, then drive Japanese cars.
I couldn't agree more.....
If a car manufactured in the US is sold by a Japanese company, is the car Japanese or American? :popcrn:
We have a lot of Japanese cars built here....it gets around the import quotas. So they are Japanese cars built by Brits, paying Brits their wages and adding to our economy. Probably the same there....unpatriotic?....not so much as buying the imported ones I guess. We have Honda, Toyota and Nissan (probably others)...with multiple factories.
Quote from: odcics2 on September 17, 2018, 09:32:27 AM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on September 06, 2018, 04:28:18 PM
The current generation of (18-25) and earlier ages only see cars as a means of transportation. Take a look of the vehicles on the road today. Toyotas are Kia's are killing us. These kids could care a less about old muscle cars and the old saying of "buy American, be American is gone)...Japan's motto is (Buy Japan "be Japanese")...Where has our world gone. We have failed. PEROID.
JAPAN is killing us and no one seems to cares anymore. :brickwall:
I totally agree with you. Never owned a Japanese vehicle, never will. I find it unpatriotic.
Lot's of hypocrites out there, say they are PATRIOTS, chant MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, then drive Japanese cars.
Or cars built in Canada. Stealing our jobs!
Quote from: JB400 on September 17, 2018, 01:48:05 PM
If a car manufactured in the US is sold by a Japanese company, is the car Japanese or American? :popcrn:
JAPANESE, because the profits GO BACK TO JAPAN!
Quote from: alfaitalia on September 17, 2018, 01:52:14 PM
We have a lot of Japanese cars built here....it gets around the import quotas. So they are Japanese cars built by Brits, paying Brits their wages and adding to our economy. Probably the same there....unpatriotic?....not so much as buying the imported ones I guess. We have Honda, Toyota and Nissan (probably others)...with multiple factories.
Japanese factories displaced the home grown car companies over the decades... In the UK and here.
Overall, a net loss of jobs.
Before I get heat on this, do your research, then report back!
It's different in the U.K. compared to the U.S.. When the Japanese started building cars in the US you still had (and still have compared to us) an American car industry for them to compete with...did it cost the US jobs overall?. No idea and Google does not help...just the ramblings of lots of obvious racists...lol.
By the time the Japanese started building cars here (in big numbers) the UK car industry had pretty much already imploded....mainly thanks to poor management, no investment and of course the unions. So over here Japanese car companies definitely created far more manufacturing jobs than they caused to be lost.
As for the profits going back to Japan.....well a percentage must....but they spend a lot here to. Research and development, wages, building new factories and of course this companies large corporation tax....all of which creates jobs, helps with our exports (many cars go to mainland Europe) and the tax helps our economy. Not many British will moan about the Japanese car companies over here....but then we didn't (and don't) have as much to lose as you guys.
Quote from: odcics2 on September 17, 2018, 04:30:37 PM
Japanese factories displaced the home grown car companies over the decades... In the UK and here.
Overall, a net loss of jobs.
Before I get heat on this, do your research, then report back!
because they made cars that were cheaper and more reliable (if perhaps not as aesthetically pleasing) that people wanted to buy?
It's called capitalism. Tariffs, and other BS regulations to try and "protect" the domestic car makers, are nothing but government attempts to mess with free markets and manipulate trade. And
that, since we are a capitalist country based on free trade ideals, is unpatriotic.
Good luck restoring an American muscle car without Asian repro parts . . . .
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 17, 2018, 06:38:07 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 17, 2018, 04:30:37 PM
Japanese factories displaced the home grown car companies over the decades... In the UK and here.
Overall, a net loss of jobs.
Before I get heat on this, do your research, then report back!
because they made cars that were cheaper and more reliable (if perhaps not as aesthetically pleasing) that people wanted to buy?
It's called capitalism. Tariffs, and other BS regulations to try and "protect" the domestic car makers, are nothing but government attempts to mess with free markets and manipulate trade. And that, since we are a capitalist country based on free trade ideals, is unpatriotic.
Prices and reliability are virtually the same now. No excuse to not buy a car from Ford, GM and of course Chrysler (under the FCA umbrella)
Patriotism is an individual choice. What's in your driveway? Only MoPars in mine. You'll find no excuses here.
:coolgleamA:
QuotePrices and reliability are virtually the same now.
Now there isn't much quality difference. Before the 2000s there definitely was. It takes a long time for these perceptions to change. Detroit spent decades earning the public's mistrust on this matter.
I thought the Ram trucks were built in Mexico ??
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on September 17, 2018, 09:36:45 PM
QuotePrices and reliability are virtually the same now.
Now there isn't much quality difference. Before the 2000s there definitely was. It takes a long time for these perceptions to change. Detroit spent decades earning the public's mistrust on this matter.
The "domestic" manufacturers have certainly stepped up their game in reaction to Honda and Toyota. Now those two brands are by no means perfect, but as mentioned, this was a long road to parity for the domestics. Compare a 1989 Lexus LS400 to a 1990 Chrysler Imperial or Cadillac and it's not even close. You don't have to go back far to see Pontiacs with all that horrible cladding on the bottom. 80's FWD domestics routinely got mechanically long in the tooth after 130k miles.
IMO, no such thing as "Buy American" anymore when it comes to cars ?
and...
could someone please define the word "MADE" as it relates to Cars in the context of made in America ?
Because very simply here....
The Steel used, Engines, Transmissions, Wiring/Electronics, Rubber/Plastic Parts... you NAME IT, could be coming from just about anywhere Globally at anytime, U.S.A., Canada, Mexico, China and on and on.
Truth be known.... the entire Car manufacturing process is now so integrated ?
many of the products now crossing so many borders, and so many times back & forth in manufacturing before finally getting assembled onto an actual "Car" just about anywhere ? there is no real way to even determine accurately just what would constitute an "American" car anymore anyways ?
Quote from: 70 sublime on September 17, 2018, 10:55:41 PM
I thought the Ram trucks were built in Mexico ??
Vast majority are built in Warren, MI
More to be built in Sterling heights, MI
Bottom line - Support US based manufacturers, regardless of what they build. Keep your neighbor working.
My neighbor works in Ohio, building Honda's.
IMO, and again here, just my opinion.... "Tariffs" and trade wars are a bad thing, very short sighted strategically, and all it does is make things waaay more expensive for the American purchaser = INFLATION as a way to make people even poorer than they are now.
U.S. to "Tariff" Canadian Aluminum & Steel.
Canada eventually gains the same PEA-BRAINED mentality and gets mad....
So eventually Canada puts an EXPORT Tariff on it's Bauxite, the Raw Material to make Aluminum, of which.... the U.S.A. can only mine/produce 1.3% of the Bauxite it needs to make it's 1.72 Metric Tons of Aluminum it produces annually.
End result....
U.S. still NEEDS the Bauxite to make Aluminum ?
So it either PAYS Canada ? or imports by ship half way around the world from Australia, or China, either way, Costs/ Prices go waaaay up on anything "Aluminum" made in the U.S. for Americans.
How does THAT make any sense ?
It goes round and round, America Tartiffs Fruit/Veggies 6 months of the year, Canada builds greenhouses... cost/prices rise
Eventually California needs Canadian water to live, let be irrigation, Canada Tariffs.... Fruits/Veggies cost/prices rise
The stupidity continues until everybody figures out NOBODY WINS, and it was all just hot air dimwit comb-over "propaganda" that played well to short sighted retards.
The BIG worry, again IMO, if the Trade/Tariff war gets ugly globally and a "scorched earth" policy prevails ?
What happens when China figures they got nothing to lose ? and starts dumping their TRILLIONS in U.S. Treasuries ?
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 09:47:35 AM
Bottom line - Support US based manufacturers, regardless of what they build. Keep your neighbor working.
So like a form of welfare? Hell no. If I like a Jaguar or an Acura better than a Chevy, too bad for my neighbor. They should go to school, get a better job, and improve their lot in life through their own efforts - the american way.
Were getting off topic, but you know what is crazy ??? We import 50 percent of Cattle/Beef from Australia. WTF
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 09:47:35 AM
Quote from: 70 sublime on September 17, 2018, 10:55:41 PM
I thought the Ram trucks were built in Mexico ??
Vast majority are built in Warren, MI
More to be built in Sterling heights, MI
Not sure about actual numbers but many are still built in Saltillo, Mexico...depends on body and trim level.
Quote from: John_Kunkel on September 18, 2018, 01:08:53 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 09:47:35 AM
Quote from: 70 sublime on September 17, 2018, 10:55:41 PM
I thought the Ram trucks were built in Mexico ??
Vast majority are built in Warren, MI
More to be built in Sterling heights, MI
Not sure about actual numbers but many are still built in Saltillo, Mexico...depends on body and trim level.
Still AMERICAN. Because the profits GO BACK TO AMERICA.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on September 06, 2018, 04:28:18 PM
The current generation of (18-25) and earlier ages only see cars as a means of transportation. Take a look of the vehicles on the road today. Toyotas are Kia's are killing us. These kids could care a less about old muscle cars and the old saying of "buy American, be American is gone)...Japan's motto is (Buy Japan "be Japanese")...Where has our world gone. We have failed. PEROID.
JAPAN is killing us and no one seems to cares anymore. :brickwall:
Sad, but pretty accurate.
Quote from: b5blue on September 06, 2018, 06:18:33 PM
Not so. They don't have 30 grand to start a project, give them time to make some coin. :2thumbs:
That's certainly possible...........
Quote from: Dino on September 18, 2018, 09:50:47 AM
My neighbor works in Ohio, building Honda's.
Except you... :smilielol:
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 18, 2018, 11:33:13 AM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 09:47:35 AM
Bottom line - Support US based manufacturers, regardless of what they build. Keep your neighbor working.
So like a form of welfare? Hell no. If I like a Jaguar or an Acura better than a Chevy, too bad for my neighbor. They should go to school, get a better job, and improve their lot in life through their own efforts - the american way.
What do you do for a job?? Do you offer a product or service that another buys??
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 18, 2018, 01:36:11 PM
Quote from: John_Kunkel on September 18, 2018, 01:08:53 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 09:47:35 AM
Quote from: 70 sublime on September 17, 2018, 10:55:41 PM
I thought the Ram trucks were built in Mexico ??
Vast majority are built in Warren, MI
More to be built in Sterling heights, MI
Not sure about actual numbers but many are still built in Saltillo, Mexico...depends on body and trim level.
Still AMERICAN. Because the profits GO BACK TO AMERICA.
BINGO, we have a winner here folks!
:cheers:
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 04:36:49 PM
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 18, 2018, 11:33:13 AM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 09:47:35 AM
Bottom line - Support US based manufacturers, regardless of what they build. Keep your neighbor working.
So like a form of welfare? Hell no. If I like a Jaguar or an Acura better than a Chevy, too bad for my neighbor. They should go to school, get a better job, and improve their lot in life through their own efforts - the american way.
What do you do for a job?? Do you offer a product or service that another buys??
Yep, and I'm expensive too.
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 18, 2018, 05:52:44 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 04:36:49 PM
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 18, 2018, 11:33:13 AM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 09:47:35 AM
Bottom line - Support US based manufacturers, regardless of what they build. Keep your neighbor working.
So like a form of welfare? Hell no. If I like a Jaguar or an Acura better than a Chevy, too bad for my neighbor. They should go to school, get a better job, and improve their lot in life through their own efforts - the american way.
What do you do for a job?? Do you offer a product or service that another buys??
Yep, and I'm expensive too.
Glad to hear the porn star gig is working out for you. ;)
Quote from: Daytona R/T SE on September 18, 2018, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 18, 2018, 05:52:44 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 04:36:49 PM
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 18, 2018, 11:33:13 AM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 09:47:35 AM
Bottom line - Support US based manufacturers, regardless of what they build. Keep your neighbor working.
So like a form of welfare? Hell no. If I like a Jaguar or an Acura better than a Chevy, too bad for my neighbor. They should go to school, get a better job, and improve their lot in life through their own efforts - the american way.
What do you do for a job?? Do you offer a product or service that another buys??
Yep, and I'm expensive too.
Glad to hear the porn star gig is working out for you. ;)
It's hard work.
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 18, 2018, 06:48:17 PM
Quote from: Daytona R/T SE on September 18, 2018, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 18, 2018, 05:52:44 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 04:36:49 PM
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 18, 2018, 11:33:13 AM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 09:47:35 AM
Bottom line - Support US based manufacturers, regardless of what they build. Keep your neighbor working.
So like a form of welfare? Hell no. If I like a Jaguar or an Acura better than a Chevy, too bad for my neighbor. They should go to school, get a better job, and improve their lot in life through their own efforts - the american way.
What do you do for a job?? Do you offer a product or service that another buys??
Yep, and I'm expensive too.
Glad to hear the porn star gig is working out for you. ;)
It's hard work.
Always be nice to your fluffer. ;)
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 09:47:35 AM
Bottom line - Support US based manufacturers, regardless of what they build. Keep your neighbor working.
This. Even though there are some foreign owned plants in the US, the profits go overseas. Buy American.
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 18, 2018, 05:52:44 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 04:36:49 PM
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 18, 2018, 11:33:13 AM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 09:47:35 AM
Bottom line - Support US based manufacturers, regardless of what they build. Keep your neighbor working.
So like a form of welfare? Hell no. If I like a Jaguar or an Acura better than a Chevy, too bad for my neighbor. They should go to school, get a better job, and improve their lot in life through their own efforts - the american way.
What do you do for a job?? Do you offer a product or service that another buys??
Yep, and I'm expensive too.
And the answer to the first question is?????
Buying American made products is not welfare!
I also support the local mom and pop owned stores.
I buy whatever I can locally and use the 'net as a last resort, and even then
buy from the guy making a few bucks on the side, rather than large chains.
Also - to comment on a previous post, yes, it's harder to restore an old car without imported metal and parts, but it can be done.
In fact it IS being done. The #88 Daytona has a mix of original metal, (like the entire front clip!) vintage 1969 metal, (like the roof and 1/4 panels) and NOS, (like the deck lid). Even the fasteners and hose clamps are period correct.
Yes, it's harder to do, but if it was easy, the car would have been slapped together years ago!
Quote from: Bronzedodge on September 18, 2018, 11:18:15 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 18, 2018, 09:47:35 AM
Bottom line - Support US based manufacturers, regardless of what they build. Keep your neighbor working.
This. Even though there are some foreign owned plants in the US, the profits go overseas. Buy American.
I guess the poor people really are DRINKING Mr. Comb-Overs propaganda Kool-aid ?
HONDA is mostly OWNED by VERY WEALTHY AMERICANS !Here are the top 5
OWNERSHIP Positions in
HONDA MOTOR COMPANY, representing 40% of the outstanding shares.
1.)
AMERICAN Century Companies,
Kansas City, Missouri,
USA 4,771,443 shares
2.) MACQUARIE GROUP LTD, Sydney Australia, 3,313,223 shares
3.) EQUITY INVESTMENT CORP,
Atlanta Georgia, USA 30309 2,414,222 shares
4.) MONDRIAN INVESTMENT PARTNERS LTD, London UK, 1,961,059 shares
5.) BRANDES INVESTMENT PARTNERS, LP,
San Diego, California 1,829,538 shares
TOYOTA is the one that sends money back to Japan, because it is primarily owned by Sumitomo Mitsui Trust Holdings(66.6%) and Resona Holdings (33%) a Publicly Traded entity on the Tokyo Stock Exchange.
And Sumitomo Mitsui Trust Holdings is so far upside down into the Japanese Gov't Bond fiasco, that indeed they are dead nuts BROKE on Gov't Debt the japanese have no hope of ever repaying ! They go down they are taking TOYOTA with them !
Quote from: Challenger340 on September 18, 2018, 09:28:25 AM
Truth be known.... the entire Car manufacturing process is now so integrated ?
many of the products now crossing so many borders, and so many times back & forth in manufacturing before finally getting assembled onto an actual "Car" just about anywhere ? there is no real way to even determine accurately just what would constitute an "American" car anymore anyways ?
My Employer makes automotive and electronic components for Industry, many times these components are shipped off in raw/unfinished form to Mexico, China, India, etc, etc and outsourced for some type of operation the end using vendor has decided that off shore partial work was more economical than performing in the USA, sad thing is later when the part(s) return to us for finish work, they are then sold/marked as proudly "Made in the USA" with the end consumer having no idea where/how the part(s)/component(s) were actually made...
Quote from: odcics2 on September 19, 2018, 07:17:18 AM
Buying American made products is not welfare!
It is if there is a "foreign" product that is just as good or better and is cheaper but the only reason you pick the "American" product is to "keep your neighbor employed". Why are you responsible for your neighbor, and why should you make decisions about how
you spend
your money for their
welfare? Holistically speaking, youre not any different than those who say "tax the rich" or that burger flippers should get paid $15 an hour because "they
deserve a living wage."
I have '17 RAM and a '19 Charger in my driveway. Did I buy them because they're "american"? No. I simply liked the cars on their own merits. My next car is either going to be German or English (owned by India), I'm just not there financially at this moment.
So, what do you do for a living??
Quote from: odcics2 on September 19, 2018, 02:10:07 PM
So, what do you do for a living??
I really don't see why that matters...
What is the English car option Ponch?....just curious.
Quote from: alfaitalia on September 19, 2018, 02:38:12 PM
What is the English car option Ponch?....just curious.
im guessing Jaguar (Tata, India) or Land Rover (Tata, India)
Quote from: moparstuart on September 19, 2018, 03:06:03 PM
Quote from: alfaitalia on September 19, 2018, 02:38:12 PM
What is the English car option Ponch?....just curious.
im guessing Jaguar (Tata, India) or Land Rover (Tata, India)
Yep...was looking at F-type coupes. The base models are kinda "meh" and too common around here, the type R is a little out of my comfort zone budget-wise at this point, and the current design is already a few years old.
I decided to do other things w my money for now, so instead I just leased a Daytona Charger so I can keep my Mexican cousins and Canadian friends working for a couple more years.
I should be just about ready for a midlife crisis when the charger lease is up, so ill probably revisit the f type/its successor then. That or a 911...
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 19, 2018, 02:32:10 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 19, 2018, 02:10:07 PM
So, what do you do for a living??
I really don't see why that matters...
Well, maybe your customers will buy from someone else, hence you will be out of a job...
Maybe they will get a better quality product elsewhere, for the same price, and you will be out of a job.
:shruggy: Who knows? :shruggy:
Quote from: odcics2 on September 19, 2018, 07:14:02 PM
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 19, 2018, 02:32:10 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 19, 2018, 02:10:07 PM
So, what do you do for a living??
I really don't see why that matters...
Well, maybe your customers will buy from someone else, hence you will be out of a job...
Maybe they will get a better quality product elsewhere, for the same price, and you will be out of a job.
:shruggy: Who knows? :shruggy:
Well yeah, thats how free markets and competition work, comrade. I wouldnt expect my clients to keep hiring me as a charity if I have nothing special to offer. In fact, it would be incredibly stupid if they did. Either I provide a superior service at a rate they think its worth it or they go elsewhere.
Comrade! Indeed!
That reminded me of a few comments I heard recently about how socialist the US is !!
Social security? Socialism.
Giving farmers money not to grow stuff, or recently 12 Billion because they are losing $$ because of tariffs? Socialism.
Driving on Interstates built by a Government jobs program? Socialism.
Heck, when you call a bunch of guys over to put out a fire, AKA Firemen, that's socialism!
I see your point.
:cheers:
Some have suggested......
"We are really only FREE..... to be a good little Consumers"
Quote from: odcics2 on September 20, 2018, 08:24:03 AM
Comrade! Indeed!
That reminded me of a few comments I heard recently about how socialist the US is !!
Social security? Socialism.
Giving farmers money not to grow stuff, or recently 12 Billion because they are losing $$ because of tariffs? Socialism.
Driving on Interstates built by a Government jobs program? Socialism.
Heck, when you call a bunch of guys over to put out a fire, AKA Firemen, that's socialism!
I see your point.
:cheers:
Now you're getting it.
(http://babalublog.com/wpr/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/montana.jpg)
Quote from: odcics2 on September 20, 2018, 08:24:03 AM
Comrade! Indeed!
That reminded me of a few comments I heard recently about how socialist the US is !!
Social security? Socialism.
Giving farmers money not to grow stuff, or recently 12 Billion because they are losing $$ because of tariffs? Socialism.
Driving on Interstates built by a Government jobs program? Socialism.
Heck, when you call a bunch of guys over to put out a fire, AKA Firemen, that's socialism!
I see your point.
WE PAY INTO SOCIAL SECURITY OUR WHOLE LIVES. WE DRAW A SMALL PORTION AFTER 65 Y/O. HOW IS THAT SOCIALISM. :brickwall:
GIVE ME ONE FARMER YOU KNOW OF WHO GOT PAID NOT TO FARM SINCE 2006 (12 Y/O). I KNOW HUNDREDS..THAT IS ALL PURE BS. :brickwall:
Quote from: ACUDANUT on September 21, 2018, 01:08:00 PM
WE PAY INTO SOCIAL SECURITY OUR WHOLE LIVES. WE DRAW A SMALL PORTION AFTER 65 Y/O. HOW IS THAT SOCIALISM. :brickwall:
(https://i.imgur.com/C5joGyN.gif)
What about all the other expenses you place on society before for you retire? Surely that comes out of those taxes too. The rest goes into paying women off so they don't tell the press about Trump's extramarital activities! Lol.
Quote from: alfaitalia on September 21, 2018, 01:51:40 PM
What about all the other expenses you place on society before for you retire? Surely that comes out of those taxes too....
now youre gonna get us locked, man.
What is a "Famer" ?
If we didn't have some amount of "govt socialism" then we wouldn't have the highway system. We wouldn't get roads plowed. We certainly wouldn't get steady cheap oil supplies. (Not only the wars. Also the agreements with swing producers, very cheap deals to pump oil from govt lands, shipping lanes being kept clear of pirates by the US military, etc).
Plenty of environmentalists feel infuriated that their tax dollars are spent on making the country more auto-oriented than they want it to be. They have to subsidize our car-loving habits. This pro-automobile viewpoint is not written in the Constitution. (The auto industry actually lobbied against public transportation bus lines & subways in the early/mid 1900s. Now, why would they do that?)
People usually like "socialism" just fine when they agree with (benefit from) how the money is being spent. They get pissed off when they see money going somewhere else.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on September 21, 2018, 06:58:54 PM
If we didn't have some amount of "govt socialism" then we wouldn't have the highway system. We wouldn't get roads plowed. We certainly wouldn't get steady cheap oil supplies. (Not only the wars. Also the agreements with swing producers, very cheap deals to pump oil from govt lands, shipping lanes being kept clear of pirates by the US military, etc).
Plenty of environmentalists feel infuriated that their tax dollars are spent on making the country more auto-oriented than they want it to be. They have to subsidize our car-loving habits. This pro-automobile viewpoint is not written in the Constitution. (The auto industry actually lobbied against public transportation bus lines & subways in the early/mid 1900s. Now, why would they do that?)
People usually like "socialism" just fine when they agree with (benefit from) how the money is being spent. They get pissed off when they see money going somewhere else.
:patriot:
Socialism, REAL socialism goes much further. I'm talking government owning all the natural resources, controlling the media entirely, owning the businesses, etc.
Fuck that.
QuoteI'm talking government owning all the natural resources, controlling the media entirely, owning the businesses, etc.
Fuck that.
Agreed.
Although at that point it's more like Communism than Socialism.
20th-century Communist countries liked to call themselves 'Socialist' but official names don't really mean anything. Kim Jong Un is the boss of 'The Democratic People's Republic of Korea'.
Quote from: Kern Dog on September 22, 2018, 10:53:02 PM
Socialism, REAL socialism goes much further. I'm talking government owning all the natural resources, controlling the media entirely, owning the businesses, etc.
Fuck that.
Yeah...thats definitely Communism...not socialism.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on September 21, 2018, 06:58:54 PM
If we didn't have some amount of "govt socialism" then we wouldn't have the highway system. We wouldn't get roads plowed. We certainly wouldn't get steady cheap oil supplies. (Not only the wars. Also the agreements with swing producers, very cheap deals to pump oil from govt lands, shipping lanes being kept clear of pirates by the US military, etc).
Plenty of environmentalists feel infuriated that their tax dollars are spent on making the country more auto-oriented than they want it to be. They have to subsidize our car-loving habits. This pro-automobile viewpoint is not written in the Constitution. (The auto industry actually lobbied against public transportation bus lines & subways in the early/mid 1900s. Now, why would they do that?)
People usually like "socialism" just fine when they agree with (benefit from) how the money is being spent. They get pissed off when they see money going somewhere else.
So why do flag waving, red hat wearing, murrica first folks who support government bailouts of banks, automakers, farmers, military contractors, and the like absolutely lose their sh*t at the mere mention of "universal healthcare" or "welfare benefits"? For the record, Im against
all of those things.
There's a difference between government services and infrastructure for which there is little or no consumer choice (ie. highways/streets/emergency services) and commercial goods. Then again, if all of a sudden all road and highway funding was cut off, you bet the automakers, big oil, the tire industry, shipping companies, and so on would come up with some sort of plan to fix the roads with their own money just to keep people buying cars and keep those Walmart trucks moving. Hell even Domino's pizza is getting in on the fray (https://www.businessinsider.com/dominos-repairing-roads-revealing-troubling-trend-in-spending-2018-6). All ultimately driven by the profit motive.
But, when you do have consumer choice, and your choice is guided not by the principles of "best product at the cheapest cost" or subjective personal preferences but rather by ostensibly altruistic motives - ie. "keeping your neighbor working" (or worse, your choices are being compelled by government meddling through tariffs, taxes, etc), you're effectively engaging in the
redistribution of wealth. Like I said, $15 an hour for burger flippers....
Yeah, when anyone uses a Microsoft product, for example, did you know the ex CEO has a net worth of over 40 BILLION. :o
So I guess we all subsidized him! How much does one guy need? :shruggy:
Quote from: odcics2 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:01 PM
Yeah, when anyone uses a Microsoft product, for example, did you know the ex CEO has a net worth of over 40 BILLION. :o
So I guess we all subsidized him! How much does one guy need? :shruggy:
You bought his products because they were the best or the only ones that did what you needed them to do. He earned that money. NEED? How many cars do you have? Do you
need them? Im sure there are plenty of people living in cardboard boxes who wonder "how many cars does one guy need?".
QuoteSo why do flag waving, red hat wearing, murrica first folks who support government bailouts of banks, automakers, farmers, military contractors, and the like absolutely lose their sh*t at the mere mention of "universal healthcare" or "welfare benefits"? For the record, Im against all of those things.
There's a difference between government services and infrastructure for which there is little or no consumer choice (ie. highways/streets/emergency services) and commercial goods. Then again, if all of a sudden all road and highway funding was cut off, you bet the automakers, big oil, the tire industry, shipping companies, and so on would come up with some sort of plan to fix the roads with their own money just to keep people buying cars and keep those Walmart trucks moving. Hell even Domino's pizza is getting in on the fray. All ultimately driven by the profit motive.
But, when you do have consumer choice, and your choice is guided not by the principles of "best product at the cheapest cost" or subjective personal preferences but rather by ostensibly altruistic motives - ie. "keeping your neighbor working" (or worse, your choices are being compelled by government meddling through tariffs, taxes, etc), you're effectively engaging in the redistribution of wealth. Like I said, $15 an hour for burger flippers....
The US public is starting to discuss $15/hr burger flippers because we won't discuss why it costs $15/hr to live here in the first place. Subsidies for more efficient living conditions work in lots of places all over the world.
We are like a drag racing team trying to figure out how to pay for even more horsepower and tires to remain competitive. We won't discuss the fact that every other car in the class is 1000 lbs lighter weight and we already have more HP & tires than any of them.
Oh Christ.....Any idiot that thinks that a full time minimum wage job is for an adult needs a kick to the dick. Minimum wage jobs are for idiots, kids starting out or someone that needs a few extra bucks from a second job. If you are 23 years old (Or OLDER) and making minimum wage, you need to stop and look back at where you screwed up, then take steps to improve your condition.
The building trades pay well. Not everyone needs a college degree to make good money.
QuoteOh Christ.....Any idiot that thinks that a full time minimum wage job is for an adult needs a kick to the dick. Minimum wage jobs are for idiots, kids starting out or someone that needs a few extra bucks from a second job. If you are 23 years old (Or OLDER) and making minimum wage, you need to stop and look back at where you screwed up, then take steps to improve your condition.
The building trades pay well. Not everyone needs a college degree to make good money.
The ratio of higher-paying jobs to low-wage jobs has dramatically changed from 50 years ago. The reasons are bigger than any individual living today. Some of it has been building up for literally centuries. The average US income isn't enough to live on = a big chunk of Americans will stay in deep financial trouble. It's just facts & math.
Sure, let's stress personal responsibility and ambition. I'm all in favor of that. But individual ethics alone are not gonna fix all this by itself. Not even close. We have to increase the income and/or decrease the cost of living too.
-- We already earn a shit-ton of money by worldwide standards.
-- Our living costs are sky-high by worldwide standards (and even compared to our own past).
Hmm . . .
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 24, 2018, 07:28:15 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:01 PM
Yeah, when anyone uses a Microsoft product, for example, did you know the ex CEO has a net worth of over 40 BILLION. :o
So I guess we all subsidized him! How much does one guy need? :shruggy:
You bought his products because they were the best or the only ones that did what you needed them to do. He earned that money. NEED? How many cars do you have? Do you need them? Im sure there are plenty of people living in cardboard boxes who wonder "how many cars does one guy need?".
In his defence (assuming you mean Bill Gates) he is quite the philanthropist these days and has literally given away billions to worthy causes around the world.
QuoteIn his defence (assuming you mean Bill Gates) he is quite the philanthropist these days and has literally given away billions to worthy causes around the world.
I would be more impressed if he treated his customers & workers better here at home.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on September 25, 2018, 02:06:59 AM
Sure, let's stress personal responsibility and ambition. I'm all in favor of that. But individual ethics alone are not gonna fix all this by itself. Not even close. We have to increase the income and/or decrease the cost of living too.
-- We already earn a shit-ton of money by worldwide standards.
-- Our living costs are sky-high by worldwide standards (and even compared to our own past).
Hmm . . .
our living costs are skewed by what the average 'murrican thinks is essential - ie. you gotta make enough to own a house, a jetski, and a muscle car (with a truck and trailer to tow it). Wherein in most parts of the world, having a roof over your head and food on your table on a consistent basis means you're winning at life.
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 24, 2018, 07:28:15 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:01 PM
Yeah, when anyone uses a Microsoft product, for example, did you know the ex CEO has a net worth of over 40 BILLION. :o
So I guess we all subsidized him! How much does one guy need? :shruggy:
You bought his products because they were the best or the only ones that did what you needed them to do. He earned that money. NEED? How many cars do you have? Do you need them? Im sure there are plenty of people living in cardboard boxes who wonder "how many cars does one guy need?".
Actually, it was already installed on the lap top when I got it. Freezes up, crashes, sometimes slow. NO, he did not earn it. If I turned out a product like this at work, I'd be fired. :Twocents:
Quote from: alfaitalia on September 25, 2018, 05:39:32 AM
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 24, 2018, 07:28:15 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:01 PM
Yeah, when anyone uses a Microsoft product, for example, did you know the ex CEO has a net worth of over 40 BILLION. :o
So I guess we all subsidized him! How much does one guy need? :shruggy:
You bought his products because they were the best or the only ones that did what you needed them to do. He earned that money. NEED? How many cars do you have? Do you need them? Im sure there are plenty of people living in cardboard boxes who wonder "how many cars does one guy need?".
In his defence (assuming you mean Bill Gates) he is quite the philanthropist these days and has literally given away billions to worthy causes around the world.
No, NOT Bill Gates. And he said he gives away millions a year.
Quoteour living costs are skewed by what the average 'murrican thinks is essential - ie. you gotta make enough to own a house, a jetski, and a muscle car (with a truck and trailer to tow it). Wherein in most parts of the world, having a roof over your head and food on your table on a consistent basis means you're winning at life.
Yes and no. It's not just our standards. It's also our basic expenses.
We have no low-income housing. We put up a few blocks of it in the ghetto occasionally and it turns into a crap hole. But that's basically a setup to make the concept look like a failure. It's like trying to help the US working classes' financial woes by giving a handful of crackheads $100 per week.
We could use low-income vehicles along the same lines if we ever sat down and thought about it. It's idiotic that it costs modern-car-money when you just want basic transportation or a basic work truck. Guys like us are better equipped than average to deal with the vehicle situation and even we still have to pay too much.
Healthcare? It's a private industry that is too big/centralized for competition from small upstarts. The customers have to either buy the product or die. Free market capitalism is not working here. On a worldwide scale the US public pays the most, gets the
worst value for it, and the industry makes the highest profits off us. These three things are not all supposed to happen at the same time. This is what it looks like when a big 21st-century corporate industry is robbing the public at gunpoint.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on September 25, 2018, 10:16:46 PM
Quoteour living costs are skewed by what the average 'murrican thinks is essential - ie. you gotta make enough to own a house, a jetski, and a muscle car (with a truck and trailer to tow it). Wherein in most parts of the world, having a roof over your head and food on your table on a consistent basis means you're winning at life.
Yes and no. It's not just our standards. It's also our basic expenses.
We have no low-income housing. We put up a few blocks of it in the ghetto occasionally and it turns into a crap hole. But that's basically a setup to make the concept look like a failure. It's like trying to help the US working classes' financial woes by giving a handful of crackheads $100 per week.
We could use low-income vehicles along the same lines if we ever sat down and thought about it. It's idiotic that it costs modern-car-money when you just want basic transportation or a basic work truck. Guys like us are better equipped than average to deal with the vehicle situation and even we still have to pay too much.
Healthcare? It's a private industry that is too big/centralized for competition from small upstarts. The customers have to either buy the product or die. Free market capitalism is not working here. On a worldwide scale the US public pays the most, gets the worst value for it, and the industry makes the highest profits off us. These three things are not all supposed to happen at the same time. This is what it looks like when a big 21st-century corporate industry is robbing the public at gunpoint.
The prob with low income housing and low income vehicles is that building/manufacturing those things is not "low income". Ie. a contractor does not charge you less to pour concrete and the materials are not going to be cheaper bc its a low income property, and likewise an autoworker - especially when they feel theyre entitled to $40 an hour for bolting bumpers onto RAMs - is not going to take a significant pay cut to build a "low income" car. The only way to do that is to get it done in China or somewhere similar...but apparently you'd be unpatriotic if you buy one of those cars so...
Re: Healthcare. I don't know what the answer is, but on principle I'm suspicious of letting govt run it. Either way, we can debate the merits of that all day - but what I'm really confounded by is how this particular subject inflames the passions of social security-bailout-subsidy supporting 'murricans. My guess is the usual "its a terrible idea because 'my guy' didn't make it happen"
QuoteThe prob with low income housing and low income vehicles is that building/manufacturing those things is not "low income". Ie. a contractor does not charge you less to pour concrete and the materials are not going to be cheaper its a low income property, and likewise an autoworker - especially when they feel theyre entitled to $40 an hour for bolting bumpers onto RAMs - is not going to take a significant pay cut to build a "low income" car. The only way to do that is to get it done in China or somewhere similar...but apparently you'd be unpatriotic if you buy one of those cars so...
I don't have a plan for implementing the changes. I'm just pointing out the problem.
The automobile is 100 years old and we still restyle & retool the whole damn thing every 5 years. Servicing used to be possible for the backyard owner and now it's a nightmare. The complexity is off-the-chart and we are in diminishing returns on a lot of it. We are voluntarily making this machine way more expensive & complicated than it needs to be. It's nice to have the option of buying more bells & whistles, but it's a problem when everyone has to buy that much just to get around. This machine isn't a "toy" like it was 100 years ago. Now it is a utility that is necessary for modern life.
Low income housing isn't as easy to cheapen. But the bottom line is we need more of it. Most people are spending more than they want to spend (hours worked to pay for it) to get more than they really need. Most of the public is living inefficiently so a small portion of the public can get richer. No matter how we shift the effects around it still costs the whole country indirectly.
If we don't want to subsidize more affordable living costs then we will subsidize it in other ways. More welfare, police & prisons, broken families from financial stress, bad health, etc. IMO there is a lot of room to be more sensible about this stuff without turning Communist.
QuoteRe: Healthcare. I don't know what the answer is, but on principle I'm suspicious of letting govt run it. Either way, we can debate the merits of that all day - but what I'm really confounded by is how this particular subject inflames the passions of social security-bailout-subsidy supporting 'murricans. My guess is the usual "its a terrible idea because 'my guy' didn't make it happen"
I'm suspicious of letting the govt run it too. But right now the private industry basically has a no-bid, no-oversight contract to sell healthcare to prison inmates. This system isn't just failing to help us, it's intentionally designed to screw us as hard as possible.
Tribalism - The media is growing more divided but I don't think the general public is. I think the far ends on each side are just being given more attention and yelling louder compared to 20+ years ago.
Quote from: alfaitalia on September 25, 2018, 05:39:32 AM
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 24, 2018, 07:28:15 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:01 PM
Yeah, when anyone uses a Microsoft product, for example, did you know the ex CEO has a net worth of over 40 BILLION. :o
So I guess we all subsidized him! How much does one guy need? :shruggy:
You bought his products because they were the best or the only ones that did what you needed them to do. He earned that money. NEED? How many cars do you have? Do you need them? Im sure there are plenty of people living in cardboard boxes who wonder "how many cars does one guy need?".
In his defence (assuming you mean Bill Gates) he is quite the philanthropist these days and has literally given away billions to worthy causes around the world.
Bill Gates only gives, non-white Students a scholarship to IVE league schools. WTF. Don't believe me, check it out. I tried for my daughter and found this out. Apparently,
if your white, you must be rich.... B.S.
It has been said that nowadays in our Capitalist Free Society ?
We are really and truely only "free", to shutup and be good little consumers.
For me anyways once I thought about it long enough, disturbing truisms around some of today's societal problems became evident. I mean it seems that other than "breathing" or "Voting", one's freedom otherwise is dictated strictly by ability to pay, and increasingly for the average person(formerly the middle class), that ability is diminishing vrs just surviving.
And while it's true the richer get richer and always have, the concentration of wealth within ever fewer has accelerated dramatically, and IMO is disturbing because you will Vote for whatever offers your best chance to continue eating(not free)
Quote from: ACUDANUT on September 27, 2018, 12:08:31 AM
Quote from: alfaitalia on September 25, 2018, 05:39:32 AM
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 24, 2018, 07:28:15 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:01 PM
Yeah, when anyone uses a Microsoft product, for example, did you know the ex CEO has a net worth of over 40 BILLION. :o
So I guess we all subsidized him! How much does one guy need? :shruggy:
You bought his products because they were the best or the only ones that did what you needed them to do. He earned that money. NEED? How many cars do you have? Do you need them? Im sure there are plenty of people living in cardboard boxes who wonder "how many cars does one guy need?".
In his defence (assuming you mean Bill Gates) he is quite the philanthropist these days and has literally given away billions to worthy causes around the world.
Bill Gates only gives, non-white Students a scholarship to IVE league schools. WTF. Don't believe me, check it out. I tried for my daughter and found this out. Apparently, if your white, you must be rich.... B.S.
You're so oppressed.
Ponch, it's not about me. It's about society today and stereotyping.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on September 27, 2018, 02:38:54 PM
Ponch, it's not about me. It's about society today and stereotyping.
Could be worse. Like, if you're black or brown, you're a thug or an "illegal".
Oh wait....
Sometimes I wonder what would happen to this country (United States of America) if history would repeat it's self. October 29, 1929 to 1939, September 1, 1939, December 7, 1941.
It kinda did...remember the credit crunch of 2007/2008. A worldwide recession largely caused by the US banks lending to people (and some companies) who could never have afforded to pay it back....known as sub prime lending! Caused a worldwide recession that we (certainly here in Europe) are still paying for now and will be for some years yet...would have been much worse for the UK if we had used the Euro....but luckily we decided against that! Other countries like Greece were not so lucky.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%932008 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%932008)
Quote from: alfaitalia on September 28, 2018, 07:51:05 AM
It kinda did...remember the credit crunch of 2007/2008. A worldwide recession largely caused by the US banks lending to people (and some companies) who could never have afforded to pay it back....known as sub prime lending! Caused a worldwide recession that we (certainly here in Europe) are still paying for now and will be for some years yet...would have been much worse for the UK if we had used the Euro....but luckily we decided against that! Other countries like Greece were not so lucky.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%932008 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%932008)
as far as the other two dates, since 9/11/01 we've been in two wars that are seemingly endless and have more expensive than all previous wars combined.
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 27, 2018, 01:03:28 PM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on September 27, 2018, 12:08:31 AM
Quote from: alfaitalia on September 25, 2018, 05:39:32 AM
Quote from: Ponch ® on September 24, 2018, 07:28:15 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 24, 2018, 02:42:01 PM
Yeah, when anyone uses a Microsoft product, for example, did you know the ex CEO has a net worth of over 40 BILLION. :o
So I guess we all subsidized him! How much does one guy need? :shruggy:
You bought his products because they were the best or the only ones that did what you needed them to do. He earned that money. NEED? How many cars do you have? Do you need them? Im sure there are plenty of people living in cardboard boxes who wonder "how many cars does one guy need?".
In his defence (assuming you mean Bill Gates) he is quite the philanthropist these days and has literally given away billions to worthy causes around the world.
Bill Gates only gives, non-white Students a scholarship to IVE league schools. WTF. Don't believe me, check it out. I tried for my daughter and found this out. Apparently, if your white, you must be rich.... B.S.
You're so oppressed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfAvQp-Uk5I
Old cars - Not something everyone needs!
Supply and demand.
Lot's of old farts with cars nobody wants anymore!
I wonder what the average age is of the guys on this forum?
I would assume the average age is 50+..Give or take 10 years.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on October 01, 2018, 01:36:49 PM
I would assume the average age is 50+..Give or take 10 years.
My thread on what two cars you would buy from your birthday year had 46 different guys reply with what cars they liked for their birth year
I was a little surprised how many were younger than me
A quick add gave me
2 in their 70's
4 in their 60's
19 in their 50's
10 in their 40's
9 in their 30's
2 in their 20's
If they were all mid decade the average worked out to 49 years old
Quote from: odcics2 on September 20, 2018, 08:24:03 AM
Comrade! Indeed!
That reminded me of a few comments I heard recently about how socialist the US is !!
Social security? Socialism.
Giving farmers money not to grow stuff, or recently 12 Billion because they are losing $$ because of tariffs? Socialism.
Driving on Interstates built by a Government jobs program? Socialism.
Heck, when you call a bunch of guys over to put out a fire, AKA Firemen, that's socialism!
I see your point.
:cheers:
Who do you think pays for Highway repairs. The People who work and pay Taxes.
Firemen and Police are paid through taxes. Not through the Government.
The Government does operate without our taxed dollars. PERIOD.
Nothing is free here. Get educated Limey.
WAIT YOUR PRIME MINISTER IS A FEMALE or he/she. :smilielol:
10 Bucks you never served for her Majesty or (Military)
P.S. Tell your women over there to shave their pits. lol
Don't get me wrong I love my friends in Europe and we all are on one side. PEACE
Quote from: dual fours on September 27, 2018, 08:02:30 PM
Sometimes I wonder what would happen to this country (United States of America) if history would repeat it's self. October 29, 1929 to 1939, September 1, 1939, December 7, 1941.
Or April 19, 1775.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on October 05, 2018, 01:36:10 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 20, 2018, 08:24:03 AM
Comrade! Indeed!
That reminded me of a few comments I heard recently about how socialist the US is !!
Social security? Socialism.
Giving farmers money not to grow stuff, or recently 12 Billion because they are losing $$ because of tariffs? Socialism.
Driving on Interstates built by a Government jobs program? Socialism.
Heck, when you call a bunch of guys over to put out a fire, AKA Firemen, that's socialism!
I see your point.
:cheers:
Who do you think pays for Highway repairs. The People who work and pay Taxes.
Firemen and Police are paid through taxes. Not through the Government.
The Government does operate without our taxed dollars. PERIOD.
Nothing is free here. Get educated Limey.
WAIT YOUR PRIME MINISTER IS A FEMALE. :smilielol:
10 Bucks you never served for her Majesty.
:shruggy:
I was not finished when you quoted me. I was only having a friendly poke (in good faith) Our Allies in Europe are our friends. We will fight and die for you. I hope you will do that same for us.
Quote from: John_Kunkel on October 05, 2018, 01:42:55 PM
Quote from: dual fours on September 27, 2018, 08:02:30 PM
Sometimes I wonder what would happen to this country (United States of America) if history would repeat it's self. October 29, 1929 to 1939, September 1, 1939, December 7, 1941.
Or April 19, 1775.
Ah yes...when the American people revolted against a tyrannical, power hungry, selfish, mentally unstable despot who ruled by the seat of his pants without any regard for the rule of law?
OH. SHIT. :shruggy:
Quote from: ACUDANUT on October 05, 2018, 01:36:10 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 20, 2018, 08:24:03 AM
Comrade! Indeed!
That reminded me of a few comments I heard recently about how socialist the US is !!
Social security? Socialism.
Giving farmers money not to grow stuff, or recently 12 Billion because they are losing $$ because of tariffs? Socialism.
Driving on Interstates built by a Government jobs program? Socialism.
Heck, when you call a bunch of guys over to put out a fire, AKA Firemen, that's socialism!
I see your point.
:cheers:
Who do you think pays for Highway repairs. The People who work and pay Taxes.
Firemen and Police are paid through taxes. Not through the Government.
The Government does operate without our taxed dollars. PERIOD.
Nothing is free here. Get educated Limey.
WAIT YOUR PRIME MINISTER IS A FEMALE or he/she. :smilielol:
10 Bucks you never served for her Majesty or (Military)
P.S. Tell your women over there to shave their pits. lol
Don't get me wrong I love my friends in Europe and we all are on one side. PEACE
Is odcics2 a Brit than? Never knew.
Please don't confuse the unshaven, garlic chomping lot from mainland Europe with us.....we have very little in common...and will have even less soon! Lol. ....worst mistake this country had made in my lifetime imo...but that's for another thread.
This is our second Lady Prime Minister.....no one cares what sex they are...as long as they get the job done. According to wiki, 68 countries (of of about 195 countries...depending on who you believe and what wars are on today) have had a woman President or Prime Minister so we are hardly alone in that fact...a lady made the final in your last election too!
Quote from: John_Kunkel on October 05, 2018, 01:42:55 PM
Quote from: dual fours on September 27, 2018, 08:02:30 PM
Sometimes I wonder what would happen to this country (United States of America) if history would repeat it's self. October 29, 1929 to 1939, September 1, 1939, December 7, 1941.
Or April 19, 1775.
Okay...I was fair to moderate with USA history but I don't recall this one.
Okay....GREAT point!
Battles of Lexington and Concord
Part of the American Revolutionary War
Battle of Lexington, 1775.png
Romanticized 19th-century depiction of Battle of Lexington
Date April 19, 1775; 243 years ago
Location Middlesex County, Massachusetts
Lexington: 42°26′58.7″N 71°13′51.0″WCoordinates: 42°26′58.7″N 71°13′51.0″W
Concord: 42°28′08.54″N 71°21′02.08″W
Result
Strategic American victory
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Battle of Lexington & Concord
Quote from: ACUDANUT on October 05, 2018, 01:36:10 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 20, 2018, 08:24:03 AM
Comrade! Indeed!
That reminded me of a few comments I heard recently about how socialist the US is !!
Social security? Socialism.
Giving farmers money not to grow stuff, or recently 12 Billion because they are losing $$ because of tariffs? Socialism.
Driving on Interstates built by a Government jobs program? Socialism.
Heck, when you call a bunch of guys over to put out a fire, AKA Firemen, that's socialism!
I see your point.
:cheers:
Who do you think pays for Highway repairs. The People who work and pay Taxes.
Firemen and Police are paid through taxes. Not through the Government.
The Government does operate without our taxed dollars. PERIOD.
Nothing is free here. Get educated Limey.
WAIT YOUR PRIME MINISTER IS A FEMALE or he/she. :smilielol:
10 Bucks you never served for her Majesty or (Military)
P.S. Tell your women over there to shave their pits. lol
Don't get me wrong I love my friends in Europe and we all are on one side. PEACE
?????
Born in the USA. Never been to England, but like British Invasion music. :nana:
Quote from: odcics2 on October 06, 2018, 07:54:47 AM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on October 05, 2018, 01:36:10 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 20, 2018, 08:24:03 AM
Comrade! Indeed!
That reminded me of a few comments I heard recently about how socialist the US is !!
Social security? Socialism.
Giving farmers money not to grow stuff, or recently 12 Billion because they are losing $$ because of tariffs? Socialism.
Driving on Interstates built by a Government jobs program? Socialism.
Heck, when you call a bunch of guys over to put out a fire, AKA Firemen, that's socialism!
[/b]I see your point.
:cheers:
Who do you think pays for Highway repairs. The People who work and pay Taxes.
Firemen and Police are paid through taxes. Not through the Government.
The Government does operate without our taxed dollars. PERIOD.
Nothing is free here. Get educated Limey.
WAIT YOUR PRIME MINISTER IS A FEMALE or he/she. :smilielol:
10 Bucks you never served for her Majesty or (Military)
P.S. Tell your women over there to shave their pits. lol
Don't get me wrong I love my friends in Europe and we all are on one side. PEACE
?????
Born in the USA. Never been to England, but like British Invasion music. :nana:
Did I miss something here or is my computer too slow. I was talking to alfaitalia
I don't know who you are "odcics2". No email address or location ? WHO ARE YOU HIDING FROM. ?
Get a Job.
I wonder if the mods are even paying attention. :popcrn: A lot of politicking going on
Quote from: JB400 on October 06, 2018, 01:54:45 PM
I wonder if the mods are even paying attention.
Yes.
Just wondering. Don't know if you don't ask :cheers:
Quote from: ACUDANUT on October 06, 2018, 10:27:02 AM
Quote from: odcics2 on October 06, 2018, 07:54:47 AM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on October 05, 2018, 01:36:10 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 20, 2018, 08:24:03 AM
Comrade! Indeed!
That reminded me of a few comments I heard recently about how socialist the US is !!
Social security? Socialism.
Giving farmers money not to grow stuff, or recently 12 Billion because they are losing $$ because of tariffs? Socialism.
Driving on Interstates built by a Government jobs program? Socialism.
Heck, when you call a bunch of guys over to put out a fire, AKA Firemen, that's socialism!
[/b]I see your point.
:cheers:
Who do you think pays for Highway repairs. The People who work and pay Taxes.
Firemen and Police are paid through taxes. Not through the Government.
The Government does operate without our taxed dollars. PERIOD.
Nothing is free here. Get educated Limey.
WAIT YOUR PRIME MINISTER IS A FEMALE or he/she. :smilielol:
10 Bucks you never served for her Majesty or (Military)
P.S. Tell your women over there to shave their pits. lol
Don't get me wrong I love my friends in Europe and we all are on one side. PEACE
?????
Born in the USA. Never been to England, but like British Invasion music. :nana:
Did I miss something here or is my computer too slow. I was talking to alfaitalia
I replied to your post #146, where your post quoted a post of mine.
Perhaps this thread should stick to old cars.
I tried to get it back in line, but it veered off the tracks again!
:cheers:
Everytime I take the charger to a show or just going to run a small errand I always hear people talk about my car "that's the car that was in the Dukes of Hazzard! " or "there is the car in Fast and Furious!" They range in age of 15-50. So I think the interest in our cars should be good for awaile. Just my car show observation opinion.
Quote from: white on October 26, 2018, 07:11:32 AM
Everytime I take the charger to a show or just going to run a small errand I always hear people talk about my car "that's the car that was in the Dukes of Hazzard! " or "there is the car in Fast and Furious!" They range in age of 15-50. So I think the interest in our cars should be good for awaile. Just my car show observation opinion.
True. The DOH is an "evergreen" series ingrained in pop culture in that it never really goes away. You can still watch episodes. They have made modern movies. It will remain in the stream of public consciousness for the foreseeable future. The iconic second gen Charger rides along as part of that.
The above acknowledges recognition and admiration for a great looking car. The question I have is more of, "Who will pay the current prices for these cars in another fifteen years? I think we are going to see an significant bump of 50's, 60's, early 70's in collector cars coming to market as time moves on.
That is a valid point, would love to visit this thread 15 years from now and what has changed in the market and what has stayed relatively the same. Most younger people are priced out of the market and choose the less expensive cars/ trucks.
Being interested in an old car is one thing.
Buying one is another. :Twocents:
"I've never owned anything but a MoPar. Can you say that"
A lot of ownerships has changed through the years, and Mopar is no longer a real American Name. Fiat owns 50 percent of Chrysler and Since they don't buy our stuff, I won't but theirs.
Fair market trade. (Dodge) ..aka Ram can't even make there own engines, and wants nothing to do with the Dodge name. That's why they call it a Ram and Not Dodge. (Cummings) is it's own company .How does that sit with you.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on October 26, 2018, 01:18:21 PM
"I've never owned anything but a MoPar. Can you say that"
A lot of ownerships has changed through the years, and Mopar is no longer a real American Name. Fiat owns 50 percent of Chrysler and Since they don't buy our stuff, I won't but theirs.
Fair market trade. (Dodge) ..aka Ram can't even make there own engines, and wants nothing to do with the Dodge name. That's why they call it a Ram and Not Dodge. (Cummings) is it's own company .How does that sit with you.
Excuse me but Rams have
ALWAYS had a
CUMMINS in them because they are the finest longest lasting diesel engine out there period and backed up by over 100 years of experience. FCA dropped the dodge name to focus the market on the RAM trucks for what thats worth....
I for one am getting sick of your misinformed opinions on most everything
I love you too.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on October 26, 2018, 09:02:59 PM
I love you too.
yeah, me too.
As far your post 157, I worked for 37 years at Chrysler Engineering and am now retired.
Thanks for your service to our country as a Marine, ACUDANUT. :patriot:
Yes Thankyou for your service, I don't think the cars will be valueless and if that's the case my boys are getting them anyway .
Both love the old cars wonder if they will be able to afford the fuel to run them though .
Well, thanks guys. I just bleed red, white and blue.
BTW I love the Cummins engine. They should have put that into our Humvees. Unfortunately GM would not go for it (they own AM General). They are so much easier to work on period.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on October 28, 2018, 08:39:30 AM
Well, thanks guys. I just bleed red, white and blue.
BTW I love the Cummins engine. They should have put that into our Humvees. Unfortunately GM would not go for it (they own AM General). They are so much easier to work on period.
I really liked the 12V Cummins Engines and I believe their reliability was somewhat legendary, I know plenty of guys at 600-700-800K and running well.
That said,
dunno if the same troublefree longevity has manifested as well with the 24V engines ? Just say'in... heard lotsa gripes.
I too love 12V Cummins Engines !!
Quote from: ACUDANUT on October 29, 2018, 02:39:53 PM
I too love 12V Cummins Engines !!
Has anyone priced 12 valve Cummins Rams? Clean ones are spendy. Even well used ones are not cheap.
I hate to admit this, but in 30 years there will only be a few people left, and the collections will all be up for action or sold to people at a very low price. My Dad is 84, has Alzheimer's, we had to get rid of his collection of 50"s and 60's cars, and they were only worth half of their value of just 15 years ago. I watch the auctions and beautiful cars from the 50"s are rolling through at half of what it cost to build them. I don't think the Muscle cars are going to disappear, and they will be the last hold outs of all the collector cars. There will be a peak and then it will fall off - and level out lower. It's the facts of the market - supply and demand - and the demand will be limited to a very few 30 years from now. Anyone ever look at the cost of a Model T? - dirt.
My HEMI Daytona clone 30 years from now will most likely be worth 30-40K; I will be 85. Most of those on this board will be dead. You will have a few MOPAR lovers that will have a feast on all the cars available.
Dane
.....well that cheered me up!
Sell Now ? :shruggy:
I don't give a corny turd what my car is worth to anyone else. I like it. I drive it and I'm keeping it.
I see it like rising Real Estate values: The number only means something IF you are selling.
The demand for 2nd-gens is gonna last a few more decades. Vin Diesel has helped assure that.
Prices will drop because younger generations simply don't have as much money. Property tax data says baby boomers own 80% of the asset wealth in the USA.
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fastandfurious/images/7/79/1970_Dodge_Charger_RT.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150503153004)
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on November 16, 2018, 09:52:57 PM
The demand for 2nd-gens is gonna last a few more decades. Vin Diesel has helped assure that.
Prices will drop because younger generations simply don't have as much money. Property tax data says baby boomers own 80% of the asset wealth in the USA.
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fastandfurious/images/7/79/1970_Dodge_Charger_RT.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150503153004)
Yes but once the baby boomer old farts die off they will be leaving a bunch of cash to the next generation to find something to spend it on
The ball will keep rolling along
QuoteYes but once the baby boomer old farts die off they will be leaving a bunch of cash to the next generation to find something to spend it on
The ball will keep rolling along
Yeah but the boomers' wealth is mostly in the property values rather than cash money. The values will drop when a lot of that generation is dying off at the same time and their stuff floods the market.
I say 'values' in the sense of real values. The cash dollar figures on these assets may never fall very low, but that's just inflation.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on November 17, 2018, 05:23:42 AM
QuoteYes but once the baby boomer old farts die off they will be leaving a bunch of cash to the next generation to find something to spend it on
The ball will keep rolling along
Yeah but the boomers' wealth is mostly in the property values rather than cash money. The values will drop when a lot of that generation is dying off at the same time and their stuff floods the market.
I say 'values' in the sense of real values. The cash dollar figures on these assets may never fall very low, but that's just inflation.
And I think
real Inflation is going to be the problem for many wishing to acquire these old Cars in future ?, versus, the current propaganda that inflation is low.
Just my opinion here,
but from what I'm seeing here in Canada, wages are falling behind dramatically compared to costs of living ? And personal DEBT levels for the average Canadian have grown substantially over the last 10 years !
I agree many boomers are asset rich with limited cash, but lots of boomers also downsize real estate as they get older, and cash positions can grow substantially as a result.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on November 17, 2018, 05:23:42 AM
QuoteYes but once the baby boomer old farts die off they will be leaving a bunch of cash to the next generation to find something to spend it on
The ball will keep rolling along
Yeah but the boomers' wealth is mostly in the property values rather than cash money. The values will drop when a lot of that generation is dying off at the same time and their stuff floods the market.
I say 'values' in the sense of real values. The cash dollar figures on these assets may never fall very low, but that's just inflation.
I'm one of those "old fart boomers". Even though we're (the wife and I) in good financial health and invested in both real estate and different funds, I see the dollar shrinking more every day. If our income from those investments drops below what's needed and we start to live off of the principle, then it will vaporize pretty quick. The system is set up that way. Assisted living establishments and any elder care will suck you dry in nothing flat. Unless we drop dead tomorrow, the kids will be in for a rude awakening when we pass...... No classic Chargers in their budgets.
QuoteI'm one of those "old fart boomers". Even though we're (the wife and I) in good financial health and invested in both real estate and different funds, I see the dollar shrinking more every day. If our income from those investments drops below what's needed and we start to live off of the principle, then it will vaporize pretty quick. The system is set up that way. Assisted living establishments and any elder care will suck you dry in nothing flat. Unless we drop dead tomorrow, the kids will be in for a rude awakening when we pass...... No classic Chargers in their budgets.
Younger generations are the last ones who would be rudely awakened. They have grown up in this bad economy. They have never known anything else.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on November 19, 2018, 02:36:00 AM
QuoteI'm one of those "old fart boomers". Even though we're (the wife and I) in good financial health and invested in both real estate and different funds, I see the dollar shrinking more every day. If our income from those investments drops below what's needed and we start to live off of the principle, then it will vaporize pretty quick. The system is set up that way. Assisted living establishments and any elder care will suck you dry in nothing flat. Unless we drop dead tomorrow, the kids will be in for a rude awakening when we pass...... No classic Chargers in their budgets.
Younger generations are the last ones who would be rudely awakened. They have grown up in this bad economy. They have never known anything else.
If they've lived their life's with little concern of financial responsibility thinking that once Mom and Dad are gone they'll be set, then yes, they'll be rudely awakened........
QuoteIf they've lived their life's with little concern of financial responsibility thinking that once Mom and Dad are gone they'll be set, then yes, they'll be rudely awakened........
Okay I see what you are saying.
But it's a helluva lot more common for young people to be the opposite these days. In a permanent state of worry about their future. Painfully aware that they are falling way short of their parents.
Quote from: RECHRGD on November 19, 2018, 05:15:36 AM
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on November 19, 2018, 02:36:00 AM
QuoteI'm one of those "old fart boomers". Even though we're (the wife and I) in good financial health and invested in both real estate and different funds, I see the dollar shrinking more every day. If our income from those investments drops below what's needed and we start to live off of the principle, then it will vaporize pretty quick. The system is set up that way. Assisted living establishments and any elder care will suck you dry in nothing flat. Unless we drop dead tomorrow, the kids will be in for a rude awakening when we pass...... No classic Chargers in their budgets.
Younger generations are the last ones who would be rudely awakened. ...
Lets face it. Our kids have a way better life and money than most of us, when we were their age.
"They have grown up in this bad economy. They have never known anything else" I totally disagree.
My :Twocents: 40 years ago, working on our cars was necessary to keep them running and we made it fun. Swapping engines or installing headers, intakes, cams, was something we did on Friday night/Saturday morning so we could go cruising/street racing on Saturday night. If you had a fast car, you were cool. 30 years ago, when I had a small shop and the projects were a little bigger or sophisticated, my buddies would come over and drink beer and help. Now, it just seems far less people are interested. Maybe because what would make it as a cool car then (quickie paint job, stock engine with a few speed goodies, ) doesn't cut it now so much and a hotrod/muscle car has gotten a lot more expensive, requiring a bigger commitment. Used to be able to pull an engine and overhaul it in a weekend. Late model cars are to complex for me to work on. And they run forever with only rudementery maintenance, so the necessity of having to work on them has decreased. As far as the young people go now, I think we are screwing them over. We demand too much for rent/property prices, expect to pay far less for our services to support a decent pay level for them. Maybe, wages might have doubled in 40 years, but housing, transportation, health care and school loans have far exceeded that. Stupid labor laws that keep young people out of the work force prior to 18 makes them pretty much unemployable for a decent wage out of high school, and the proliferation and acceptance of drugs make it even worse. Around my neck of the woods, potential 20 something workers, maybe 1 in 5 can pass a drug test. And allowing unscrupulous (YES ALLOWING) employers to hire government subsidized illegall workers keeps the wages down. Yes, we screwed the younger generation for our benefit.
'Yes, we screwed the younger generation for our benefit"
What benefit is that ? We (50 plus age and older) inherited a deficit of billions of dollars owed to other countries that "WE" the taxpayers had no say in the matter. We may not be able to ever to get our 5% (of our 35 % paid in all of our lives working.. taxes back, that we paid into our social security)....... Not when we give Illegals all of our hard earned money to them, who have not contributed anything. There go's our economy. :brickwall:
So no, have not screwed the younger generation for our benefit
Quote from: ACUDANUT on November 20, 2018, 03:02:05 AM
'Yes, we screwed the younger generation for our benefit"
What benefit is that ? We (50 plus age and older) inherited a deficit of billions of dollars owed to other countries that "WE" the taxpayers had no say in the matter. We may not be able to ever to get our 5% (of our 35 % paid in all of our lives working)... taxes back, that we paid into our social security....... Not when give Illegals all of our hard earned money to them, who have not contributed anything. There go's our economy. :brickwall:
I didnt realize you were so oppressed.
Ponch, Ain't nothing free in this world. That is all I am saying.
Just throwing this in for some balance -
Illegals using fake SSNs are contributing to payroll taxes. Some of it is always being withheld at the employers' end even if the illegals don't ever file taxes. They pay in during their career, and are not eligible to withdraw any of it upon retiring. Some illegals even voluntarily file taxes, hoping that building a record of paying taxes will help in their quest for citizenship.
Steven Goss (chief actuary of the Social Security admin): "We estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally."
Are illegals good for the country as a whole?
I didn't say that.
IMO it's probably a mixed bag. Pros and cons.
I do think we've allowed the situation to get stupid in the last 40 years. Not enough border control, not enough deporting the worst criminal illegals, not enough punishing the people/businesses that profit off illegals.
I know you cant really compare as you have a MUCH bogger country to Police.....but the authorities here are now super hot on illegals due to it being such a political hot potato here at the moment. Im not saying we don't have any but it's less by the day and its far less tempting for employers to take the risk or employing them as the fines are now massive if you get caught!!
....on another topic....one of my best friends from school is an illegal in your great state of Texas....he went on a farm workers exchange in about 1985 ish....and never came back! He now has a "real" SSN |(don't know how)and loves it out there. His only problem is that now his passport has expired he has not been back to the UK in ages....too scared he will be picked up at the airport and not allowed back in....lol! Im guessing one white British farmer working hard for a living and (now at least) paying his US taxes is not the sort of illegal most in this thread haves issues with!!! Will go and visit him one day.....maybe tie it in with a Carlisle Mopar Show trip....something I really want to see. :2thumbs:
(https://jokideo.com/wp-content/uploads/meme/2017/06/Illegal-aliens-taking-our-jobs-meme.jpg)
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on November 20, 2018, 11:29:06 PM
Just throwing this in for some balance -
Illegals using fake SSNs are contributing to payroll taxes. Some of it is always being withheld at the employers' end even if the illegals don't ever file taxes. They pay in during their career, and are not eligible to withdraw any of it upon retiring. Some illegals even voluntarily file taxes, hoping that building a record of paying taxes will help in their quest for citizenship.
Steven Goss (chief actuary of the Social Security admin): "We estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally."
Are illegals good for the country as a whole?
I didn't say that.
IMO it's probably a mixed bag. Pros and cons.
I do think we've allowed the situation to get stupid in the last 40 years. Not enough border control, not enough deporting the worst criminal illegals, not enough punishing the people/businesses that profit off illegals.
Also, every time they buy something, they don't say "wait...I'm an illegal...I don't have to pay the sales tax". And if we want to talk about people who don't pay taxes, we can go all the way to combed-over top...
Crime? Sure, there's criminals. But then again, home bred good ol' boys have killed more Americans in the last two weeks than the illegal caravan....
Quote from: Mytur Binsdirti on November 21, 2018, 11:36:32 AM
(https://jokideo.com/wp-content/uploads/meme/2017/06/Illegal-aliens-taking-our-jobs-meme.jpg)
haha. it's always easier to blame and demonize someone else rather than look inwards as to why you're in your current situation. Social Security? Sure as hell ain't happening for my generation, but I still pay into it - if anything, you old guys are freeloading off of me. In any event, I'm investing and planning for retirement on my own. Jobs? I've never lost out on a job to an illegal, but then again I have skills and a graduate degree that today's employers find desirable. If I'm ever in situation where I'm competing for and/or losing out on a job to a person that, in the average, doesn't speak english, has a a 3rd grade education, and is unfamiliar with our society - then I'm gonna ask myself where I f--cked up that badly.
This is the U.S.A, son. You make your own way and work your way to the top, you don't blame others or expect a handout.
"This is the U.S.A, son. You make your own way and work your way to the top, you don't blame others or expect a handout."
Amen to that. :cheers:
Quote from: Ponch ® on November 21, 2018, 01:39:12 PM
If I'm ever in situation where I'm competing for and/or losing out on a job to a person that, in the average, doesn't speak english, has a a 3rd grade education, and is unfamiliar with our society - then I'm gonna ask myself where I f--cked up that badly.
As usual, your ignorance is showing.
Before the influx of illegal Hispanics and before Liberal politicians gave away our tax dollars to lazy Americans, the lower paying unskilled jobs were performed by....AMERICANS! Then, in the sneaky and underhanded tactic to buy votes for their party, the Liberals not only freely gave out WELFARE benefits, they embarked on an aggressive campaign to eliminate the stigma of being on government assistance. THEN, turn a blind eye to what flows in from south of our border and you get the Hispanic illegal immigrants working the fields, hotels, textile industry, construction industry, etc.
If an employer can replace me with 5 Hispanics for the same money and get the equivalent of twice the work that I do in the same day, it is very tempting. I have personally seen multiple instances of 4-5 man work crews where one guy speaks both English and Spanish so
someone can read blueprints and interact with Foremen, Superintendants, etc.
I support fines and penalties for employers that willingly hire illegal immigrants and I am not the type to support government involvement.
Anyway, Back to the TOPIC.
I am thinking about selling 4 out of the 6 cars I own. I just don't think I can handle the onslaught of insults everyone gives a seller.
Thinking about a auction. 35 year old collection. Yes I live in Kansas and No they ain't in no barn. Stored inside an airtight real Garage.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on November 21, 2018, 09:03:06 PM
I am thinking about selling 4 out of the 6 cars I own.
Watcha got ? :shruggy:
Quote from: Kern Dog on November 21, 2018, 07:31:15 PM
Quote from: Ponch ® on November 21, 2018, 01:39:12 PM
If I'm ever in situation where I'm competing for and/or losing out on a job to a person that, in the average, doesn't speak english, has a a 3rd grade education, and is unfamiliar with our society - then I'm gonna ask myself where I f--cked up that badly.
If an employer can replace me with 5 Hispanics for the same money and get the equivalent of twice the work that I do in the same day, it is very tempting.
Its called basic economics of capitalism and competition. If someone is willing to do a job for x amount, then thats what the job is worth. So if you can be replaced by 5 guys for the same money, youve been getting overpaid 5x and freeloading off of your employer all along. Anything else, like fines, is government manipulation of the market through artificially high wages. You know, like they do in China and Venezuela. Expecting to be paid more based on some arbitrary attribute (like "well Im an American, I should get more $") instead of the actual value of your labor is a form of entitlement - again, not unlike a burger flipper expecting to be $20 an hour bc they 'deserve' it.
Im not getting replaced in my job by 5 illegals anytime soon bc it doesnt involve mindless manual labor. But yeah, Im the ignorant one. :lol:
Yeah, still as "iggnent" as always.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on November 21, 2018, 09:03:06 PM
Anyway, Back to the TOPIC.
I am thinking about selling 4 out of the 6 cars I own. I just don't think I can handle the onslaught of insults everyone gives a seller.
Thinking about a auction. 35 year old collection. Yes I live in Kansas and No they ain't in no barn. Stored inside an airtight real Garage.
I have NEVER insulted someone through a PM...I promise! :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: Birdflu on November 28, 2018, 08:35:03 PM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on November 21, 2018, 09:03:06 PM
Anyway, Back to the TOPIC.
I am thinking about selling 4 out of the 6 cars I own. I just don't think I can handle the onslaught of insults everyone gives a seller.
Thinking about a auction. 35 year old collection. Yes I live in Kansas and No they ain't in no barn. Stored inside an airtight real Garage.
I have NEVER insulted someone through a PM...I promise! :icon_smile_big:
70 Charger, 71 Cuda, 71 Challenger vert, 3 rallye Chargers.. All big block cars. No Hemi's.
SEE, no one wants them.
ACUDANUT, are any of the Rallye Chargers 4 speed? Projects? Feel free to PM me.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on November 29, 2018, 09:36:26 AM
Quote from: Birdflu on November 28, 2018, 08:35:03 PM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on November 21, 2018, 09:03:06 PM
Anyway, Back to the TOPIC.
I am thinking about selling 4 out of the 6 cars I own. I just don't think I can handle the onslaught of insults everyone gives a seller.
Thinking about a auction. 35 year old collection. Yes I live in Kansas and No they ain't in no barn. Stored inside an airtight real Garage.
I have NEVER insulted someone through a PM...I promise! :icon_smile_big:
70 Charger, 71 Cuda, 71 Challenger vert, 3 rallye Chargers.. All big block cars. No Hemi's.
SEE, no one wants them.
Could we have prices to go along with each car? And what color combo, engine, trans they are?
(even if I think a price is too high I don't say that to the seller, I do make an offer sometimes but I say " I'm not saying your car isn't worth what your asking because I don't know, but I would be willing to give X for it. If your interested then just let me know and thanks for your time.)
My point in telling you that is that you don't have to put up with buyers like that. Those are great cars and will have plenty of interest. :Twocents: :2thumbs:
The only 4 speed is the 70 Charger with 4.11 rear end gears. It also has every option available. (down side..it has a 68 complete black interior, including dash)
A/C has been removed.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on December 01, 2018, 10:17:34 AM
The only 4 speed is the 70 Charger with 4.11 rear end gears. It also has every option available. (down side..it has a 68 complete black interior, including dash)
A/C has been removed.
sorry to here your liquidating
Quote from: moparstuart on December 03, 2018, 10:31:23 AM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on December 01, 2018, 10:17:34 AM
The only 4 speed is the 70 Charger with 4.11 rear end gears. It also has every option available. (down side..it has a 68 complete black interior, including dash)
A/C has been removed.
sorry to here your liquidating
After reading this thread, sounds like a great idea... :eek2:
Quote from: Daytona Guy on November 16, 2018, 12:48:08 AM
I hate to admit this, but in 30 years there will only be a few people left, and the collections will all be up for action or sold to people at a very low price. My Dad is 84, has Alzheimer's, we had to get rid of his collection of 50"s and 60's cars, and they were only worth half of their value of just 15 years ago. I watch the auctions and beautiful cars from the 50"s are rolling through at half of what it cost to build them. I don't think the Muscle cars are going to disappear, and they will be the last hold outs of all the collector cars. There will be a peak and then it will fall off - and level out lower. It's the facts of the market - supply and demand - and the demand will be limited to a very few 30 years from now. Anyone ever look at the cost of a Model T? - dirt.
My HEMI Daytona clone 30 years from now will most likely be worth 30-40K; I will be 85. Most of those on this board will be dead. You will have a few MOPAR lovers that will have a feast on all the cars available.
Dane
Dane
You have given us a reason to stay healthy and live long - we can buy all the MOPARs from those who die before us! In 30 years I will be 82 so I'll have a few extra years of estate sales to shop at
Quote from: ACUDANUT on November 29, 2018, 09:36:26 AM
Quote from: Birdflu on November 28, 2018, 08:35:03 PM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on November 21, 2018, 09:03:06 PM
Anyway, Back to the TOPIC.
I am thinking about selling 4 out of the 6 cars I own. I just don't think I can handle the onslaught of insults everyone gives a seller.
Thinking about a auction. 35 year old collection. Yes I live in Kansas and No they ain't in no barn. Stored inside an airtight real Garage.
I have NEVER insulted someone through a PM...I promise! :icon_smile_big:
70 Charger, 71 Cuda, 71 Challenger vert, 3 rallye Chargers.. All big block cars. No Hemi's.
SEE, no one wants them.
I am contemplating selling my Charger R/T SE as well, but for no other reason than to acquire something I can "play" with a bit
before I'm too old ?
IMO,
something just not "copacetic" in changing things/stuff on an original unmolested #'s R/T SE Car, that survived all these decades still in great shape ?
See ? Nobody will probably want mine as well !
There are a lot of factors at play here.
Every generation has a lust for the cars of their youth. So there will always be a spike of interest as that generation gets older, and has nostalgia and buying power.
The muscle car era was succeeded by about two decades of cars with lesser performance. So another generation or two listed after them. This gives it a much wider band of interest.
There was something special about that era in many other ways. A kick ass economy, a huge youthful generation with great job prospects, cars literally sold to the public so they could race them, American know how kicking ass, landing on the moon, and so on.
Also, with regards to the wonderful performance of modern cars, there is often a lack of excitement driving them. It is so effortless and calm. You can be going over a hundred in your Challenger with less visceral feel and feedback than doing 55 in your 70. The other catch is, so many of the parts and electronic components in modern cars are going to mean keeping one running for fifty years is not likely. They are better quality wise, that is not the issue. But finding, fabricating, or reproducing something like the wing and nose for a Daytona is child's play compared to, say, sourcing a two year only navigation/infotainment/control system specific to the automatic version of the two year only 2022/2023 AWD Challenger Daytona Demon Snow Leopard edition.
The percentage of people with interest in performance cars may be going down, and their options in modern cars are legion. But the population is growing. There is always going to be an interest in the classic muscle car era vehicles.
Some current issues are, the most desireable have been snapped up and turning into investments and are often collector pieces due to value. They are priced out of the reach of most. Less valuable versions may still be playthings, but they are still for the affluent.
Most do not have the tools, space, and ability to restore their own cars. Tons of cars out there will be worth less when restored than it will cost to restore them even if you can do a lot of the work. Sure, your dad can finally drag his Superbird 440 out of the garage or you can snag a Hemi Charger at a steal from some rural widow, dump 70k into their restorations, and come out ahead.
But you can't with most. That 74 Charger or Roadrunner with factory hand crank sun roof, fender signals, and four ashtrays is a pretty cool car. It left the factory with a 318, 904, and peg leg rear end. Body is in real good shape and it is solid and rust free. It needs interior, a new engine, tranny rebuild, new rear end, power steering pump, factory 26 inch radiator, new tank and lines, body work, and paint. Whole AC system, core, etc are missing. Speedo does not work, wiring is a mess.
You also save a 71 Challenger that has sat for twenty years. It is all original. It has the original 383 two barrel with 100k running fine but never rebuilt. It has the original auto tranny that needs a rebuild. It has some pin hole ruse issue on a fender, needs a rear lower quarter panel, the interior is all there but beat. You need the roof vinyl and trim, it needs exhaust, tank, lines, etc.
You may get the cars and have them running in Joe dirt mode, but you are not even going to be able to make either a nice driver without going in the hole.
Younger people are not going to do that. Homes, cars, etc. are all a bigger chunk of the average Amercian income than they used to be, let alone college, medical care, etc.
It is going to be a long time before they are worth a lot.
It is the same with other makes. You would be hard pressed to get a nice driver, run of the mill GTO together, even numbers matching, for what you put into it. You need the factory 4 speed RAIV Judge to get ahead.
Plus, for most, new stuff is there status symbol. The younger affluent guy is going to buy a new Rolex and new GT500 or whatever for the weekend. The subset of richer guys or more discerning guys that are going to buy a 69 Mach 1 and vintage double red Seadweller is smaller.
My prediction is the next decade or two remain a similar interest and value in the rare, high end collector stuff. With a lot of fallen off interest in the garden variety cars and ones not worth enough restored to restore. And some major fire sales in the restomod stuff. The guy that spent 80k on a tube frame chassis 69 Charger with modern suspension, steering, and drivetrain and sweet interior will be lucky to get 40k for it when he can't drive anymore and his kids will likely sell it for 25k after he dies.
However, a couple of decades after than, when all the rare and highly desired and nice models are safely enshrined in their collector Garage/museum, there are still going to be people with a desire to have one they can drive and play with. The driver cars are going to be in higher demand and worth enough to restore, because there won't be a whole lot left.
Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on September 25, 2018, 02:06:59 AM
QuoteOh Christ.....Any idiot that thinks that a full time minimum wage job is for an adult needs a kick to the dick. Minimum wage jobs are for idiots, kids starting out or someone that needs a few extra bucks from a second job. If you are 23 years old (Or OLDER) and making minimum wage, you need to stop and look back at where you screwed up, then take steps to improve your condition.
The building trades pay well. Not everyone needs a college degree to make good money.
The ratio of higher-paying jobs to low-wage jobs has dramatically changed from 50 years ago. The reasons are bigger than any individual living today. Some of it has been building up for literally centuries. The average US income isn't enough to live on = a big chunk of Americans will stay in deep financial trouble. It's just facts & math.
Sure, let's stress personal responsibility and ambition. I'm all in favor of that. But individual ethics alone are not gonna fix all this by itself. Not even close. We have to increase the income and/or decrease the cost of living too.
-- We already earn a shit-ton of money by worldwide standards.
-- Our living costs are sky-high by worldwide standards (and even compared to our own past).
Hmm . . .
I won't argue the shift in types of jobs and issues with the economy.
But the average Amercian family with both mom and dad working likely lives in a home twice the size of their grandparents, with two or more color TVs, a cable bill, an internet bill, smart phones, nice cars, maybe a fishing boat or motorcycle or two, etc. etc.
We have a very high standard of living.
Quote from: nvrbdn on September 06, 2018, 10:38:01 PM
Well, as far as the old muscle car popularity is going, It isn't just the young crowd. Go check out a car show. I just went to the drive-in car show and movie. Over 60% of the cars were new. Then I went to the VFW show last weekend. They have more classes for the new cars than the old ones. Over 100 cars there. Classes were for all makes up to 55, 56-69, 70-79 and 80 up. stock and another of the same for modified. Then they had the corvette classes 2 truck classes and the rest of the 26 classes were for new cars. These new cars are owned by people 58 and up. My buddy mike has a 2016 Challenger. He is 59. Terry is 63 with a new mustang. Rows of new Camaros and Corvettes a Hell Cat and 2 Vipers. All turn key. They don't work on them. They just clean them. They walk around the show to see what categories the other cars got into so they know what to list their car in. Again the numbers are over 60% new cars at the show. I see maybe 6 young kids with their rice burners there cleaning and getting ready for the judges. The older group is leaving the old cars behind and buying the new cars. I see the love of the old Muscle cars ending soon.
I would not totally judge interest based on car shows.
The concept of having and driving a car and enjoying it vs spending all day at a car show or in a club is different than it used to be.
Virtually all club type events and participation is falling off.
QuoteI won't argue the shift in types of jobs and issues with the economy.
But the average Amercian family with both mom and dad working likely lives in a home twice the size of their grandparents, with two or more color TVs, a cable bill, an internet bill, smart phones, nice cars, maybe a fishing boat or motorcycle or two, etc. etc.
We have a very high standard of living.
Home sizes have grown for a list of reasons, some luxury, some not. The biggest one is that it just doesn't cost much more to build a bigger box. The smallest home is less profitable for the builder. (GM & Ford & Mopar would rather lard up a vehicle with extra options than sell a base model. You can't always buy the base model anymore even if you want one.)
What if you don't want a home that big? Today the neighborhood of that smaller home is probably not as nice (read: safety & school districts) as it was when the home was new 50-100 years ago. There is more indirect pressure for people to buy these bigger homes than the data measures.
TVs? I agree they are huge. They are not very expensive anymore, though. You can buy a big flat TV for $200. If the market was still filled with a big portion of glass-screen TVs, they probably wouldn't cost dramatically less than that.
This stuff is always pretty complicated. The deeper you scratch an issue, the more indirect factors you start to notice.
Quote from: Ponch ® on November 22, 2018, 05:30:09 PM
Quote from: Kern Dog on November 21, 2018, 07:31:15 PM
Quote from: Ponch ® on November 21, 2018, 01:39:12 PM
If I'm ever in situation where I'm competing for and/or losing out on a job to a person that, in the average, doesn't speak english, has a a 3rd grade education, and is unfamiliar with our society - then I'm gonna ask myself where I f--cked up that badly.
If an employer can replace me with 5 Hispanics for the same money and get the equivalent of twice the work that I do in the same day, it is very tempting.
Its called basic economics of capitalism and competition. If someone is willing to do a job for x amount, then thats what the job is worth. So if you can be replaced by 5 guys for the same money, youve been getting overpaid 5x and freeloading off of your employer all along. Anything else, like fines, is government manipulation of the market through artificially high wages. You know, like they do in China and Venezuela. Expecting to be paid more based on some arbitrary attribute (like "well Im an American, I should get more $") instead of the actual value of your labor is a form of entitlement - again, not unlike a burger flipper expecting to be $20 an hour bc they 'deserve' it.
Im not getting replaced in my job by 5 illegals anytime soon bc it doesnt involve mindless manual labor. But yeah, Im the ignorant one. :lol:
The problem is this is not economics in a vacuum.
The employer is paying ten guys five bucks and hour instead of 15 and making about like a bandit, especially since it's cash and no SS/MC/FICA.
But they are driving around drunk getting in accidents, costing a fortune at the ER, clogging schools with non English speaking kids whose parents are illiterate in their own language, increasing property time, raising everyone's insurance cost, etc.
You are costing your existing citizens far more than they saved on their roof, not even accounting for how much of that savings was pocketed by the employer instead of passed on to the buyer.
The Amercian for $15 dollars an hour would have been saving up to buy an ATV locally, a used car at the local dealership, and various other things instead of wiring it back home.
The non citizen you are paying 5$ under the table is pumping the anchor babies into his old lady, sucking up your fellow citizens tax dollars into Medicare, section 8, EBT, etc.
Then they will be voting Democrat for more benefits, more environmental and emission tests, more crap keeping you from having your cars, etc.
It is not free market and fair competition when other citizens and the government are subsidizing your shady employment practices and dotting the bill.
[quote
But they are driving around drunk getting in accidents, costing a fortune at the ER, clogging schools with non English speaking kids whose parents are illiterate in their own language, increasing property time, raising everyone's insurance cost, etc.
The non citizen you are paying 5$ under the table is pumping the anchor babies into his old lady, sucking up your fellow citizens tax dollars into Medicare, section 8, EBT, etc.
Then they will be voting Democrat for more benefits, more environmental and emission tests, more crap keeping you from having your cars, etc.
It is not free market and fair competition when other citizens and the government are subsidizing your shady employment practices and dotting the bill.
[/quote]
LOL! You (and other posters) do seem to tarring all the immigrants with the same brush...which seems a little unfair. What would you do in their situation?.....try and go over the border and get a better life for your family of course....as most of us would if life got that bad. Its the employers that should be feeling the bat....not the workers.
14.3 % of your population born outside your country...excluding the illegals ....So maybe stopping so many entering legitimately might take the pressure off a bit. And how many poster are confusing illegals with legitimate workers from South America. People moan about immigrants here and on 13.5% of our pop where born outside the UK....quite high in the world rankings. And Im fine with that.....obviously the largely racist BREXIT lot where not though!!! LOL!
This is interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population)
Every year there is a MoPar swap meet in Michigan during the winter. :2thumbs:
Every year the participants get older. :yesnod:
Every year they talk about who died during the last year and then had their stuff liquidated, by either selling it off
or the kids tossed it all in a dumpster. :rotz:
Very, very, very, few young guys are at these shows to carry the torch on....
I'm sure you all have seen the same trend in your part of the country.
Over here there are lots of young folks at the shows...and quite a few exhibiting. But not with cars from the 60s. They think a 1983 Mk2 VW Golf is a VERY OLD car....and I guess if you were born in 1993 it is! Some of these cars I would be proud to own and they put just as much effort into them as many on here do.....but the difference is the cars they choose are (relatively) affordable cars to rebuild. Classic Japanese cars are also growing in popularity at UK shows and many are very rare now due to how rust prone 70s and 80s Japanese cars were. As said above....the cars of your youth are the ones you like....so for me that's late 60s and 70s cars. As much as I will admire a 40s or 50s car at the shows they would never appeal as on ownership proposition as I have no history or memories of them and therefore no real emotional connection. That said the film industries obsession with our cars will help keep prices up for rather longer than other models IMO. Only time will tell.
Quote from: alfaitalia on December 09, 2018, 09:29:51 AM
Over here there are lots of young folks at the shows...and quite a few exhibiting. But not with cars from the 60s. They think a 1983 Mk2 VW Golf is a VERY OLD car....and I guess if you were born in 1993 it is! Some of these cars I would be proud to own and they put just as much effort into them as many on here do.....but the difference is the cars they choose are (relatively) affordable cars to rebuild. Classic Japanese cars are also growing in popularity at UK shows and many are very rare now due to how rust prone 70s and 80s Japanese cars were. As said above....the cars of your youth are the ones you like....so for me that's late 60s and 70s cars. As much as I will admire a 40s or 50s car at the shows they would never appeal as on ownership proposition as I have no history or memories of them and therefore no real emotional connection. That said the film industries obsession with our cars will help keep prices up for rather longer than other models IMO. Only time will tell.
A few months back, I sold my '68 to an 18 year old college student. His parents and grandparents helped him buy it and he's paying them back. He also has a '65 mustang. So, yes the young folks do have interest in our cars, but few have the resources to buy them. Lucky Kid!!!
Quote from: alfaitalia on December 09, 2018, 08:13:44 AM
[quote
But they are driving around drunk getting in accidents, costing a fortune at the ER, clogging schools with non English speaking kids whose parents are illiterate in their own language, increasing property time, raising everyone's insurance cost, etc.
The non citizen you are paying 5$ under the table is pumping the anchor babies into his old lady, sucking up your fellow citizens tax dollars into Medicare, section 8, EBT, etc.
Then they will be voting Democrat for more benefits, more environmental and emission tests, more crap keeping you from having your cars, etc.
It is not free market and fair competition when other citizens and the government are subsidizing your shady employment practices and dotting the bill.
LOL! You (and other posters) do seem to tarring all the immigrants with the same brush...which seems a little unfair. What would you do in their situation?.....try and go over the border and get a better life for your family of course....as most of us would if life got that bad. Its the employers that should be feeling the bat....not the workers.
14.3 % of your population born outside your country...excluding the illegals ....So maybe stopping so many entering legitimately might take the pressure off a bit. And how many poster are confusing illegals with legitimate workers from South America. People moan about immigrants here and on 13.5% of our pop where born outside the UK....quite high in the world rankings. And Im fine with that.....obviously the largely racist BREXIT lot where not though!!! LOL!
This is interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population)
[/quote]
I am not complaining about all immigrants.
I am complaining about immigration, legal or illegal, that brings in populations to be an underclass chattel to save an employer labor money, but cost a fortune in taxes to support.
Don't expect a person from an island country to understand the struggles we have, where a border on LAND is much easier to cross or tunnel under.
perspective....
just try walking/sneaking across the border into China ? or Russia ? and claiming refugee status... working as an illegal... or any one of the current activities going on in the U.S. ?
go ahead...
anyone ?
anyone ?
Quote from: Kern Dog on December 09, 2018, 03:45:10 PM
Don't expect a person from an island country to understand the struggles we have, where a border on LAND is much easier to cross or tunnel under.
Maybe it does not make the news in the USA....but we are having major problems with illegals coming across from mainland Europe Mainly from Syria and the middle East (so I'm not completely without sympathy for them) ....some stow away in trucks but many just come across in overcrowded boats. Much more difficult to patrol a coast than a land border....especially when the water in question is the English Channel....one of the busiest waterways in the world. Virtually impossible to know which boats should be there and which shouldn't.
Just like our situation...We have more to lose by looking the other way than we do by securing funds to stop these criminal assholes.
Quote from: Kern Dog on December 10, 2018, 11:50:15 PM
Just like our situation...We have more to lose by looking the other way than we do by securing funds to stop these criminal assholes.
It don't matter. Hate to break the news, but there's already enough of us "anchor babies" and mongrel people here that'll be taking over in a couple of generations anyway. Forget about the criminals...worry about those of us with advanced degrees and money.
Taco trucks in every corner indeed! :lol:
(https://peacesupplies.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/make_america_mexico_again.jpg)
That is further proof of what a piece of shit that you really are.
Quote from: Kern Dog on December 11, 2018, 07:06:29 PM
That is further proof of what a piece of shit that you really are.
You don't like tacos?
Ya know with all the "Low brow" vulgar, selfish and supremacist Americans combined with the unmarried Moms with 15 kids from as many unemployed fathers I'd welcome anyone who wants to actually work to support their family if they don't think they are better than anyone just because they got here sooner. :smilielol:
Our cars will mean something to the future, we can't call what that will be but I can't see it having anything to do with much of the chatter I see here. :scratchchin:
This whole thread has been quite the rollercoaster....
Think I'll throw a couple Poptarts into Sally for a little snack, and wait to see what else happens here... :coolgleamA:
Not a roller coaster, but close.
And it didn't get it locked. :cheers:
Quote from: HeavyFuel on December 14, 2018, 03:46:03 PM
This whole thread has been quite the rollercoaster....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VH6yD8zobM
Quote from: Mytur Binsdirti on December 17, 2018, 09:01:09 AM
Quote from: HeavyFuel on December 14, 2018, 03:46:03 PM
This whole thread has been quite the rollercoaster....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VH6yD8zobM
Like most long threads, the best information is on the first couple pages. :yesnod:
Il really throw it off the rails then by adding a modififed charger rear end and make the purist mad at me as they already are :nana:
Are they mad though? If so, too friggin bad.
74 Charger. that is one bad ass looking rear end. :cheers:
Must have 2,000 HP to need that!
:coolgleamA:
Quote from: ACUDANUT on December 18, 2018, 02:53:04 AM
74 Charger. that is one bad ass looking rear end. :cheers:
THX YOU...still work in a progress almost done, sort of, maybe one day,lol.... :cheers:
Quote from: odcics2 on December 18, 2018, 05:35:54 PM
Must have 2,000 HP to need that!
:coolgleamA:
strange told me my rear end will take 2500HP abuse, callies told me crank will take 2500hp, rods 2k hp, tim told me his heads will flow 470cfm with his port/cnc work titainum valves and springs, handle my bottom end with ray barton rocker system, and manton push rods with a modififed T56 magnum to handle 1k HP plus...all in a Hemi world block recent mold with 1471 blower on top. :cheers:
Will it hold to a slant 6 ??? LOL
Coilovers????? :image_294343: :image_294343: :image_294343: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :down: :down: :down: :slap:
;) :cheers: Nothing wrong with them
Quote from: ACUDANUT on December 22, 2018, 01:22:55 PM
Will it hold to a slant 6 ??? LOL
Not the Aussies slant 6 hemi, no...I seen those in action no joke :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on December 31, 2018, 12:31:39 AM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on December 22, 2018, 01:22:55 PM
Will it hold to a slant 6 ??? LOL
Not the Aussies slant 6 hemi, no...I seen those in action no joke :icon_smile_big:
Those were slanted?
No way a straight or slant six can beat a 340 or up. :scratchchin: :scratchchin:
I see a whole lot of late model Challengers, Chargers, Camaros, Vettes and Mustangs on the road. In some ways the American muscle car is back. Challengers particularly seem to have sold really well. :Twocents:
Quote from: 73chgrSE on September 26, 2019, 01:56:42 PM
I see a whole lot of late model Challengers, Chargers, Camaros, Vettes and Mustangs on the road. In some ways the American muscle car is back. Challengers particularly seem to have sold really well. :Twocents:
The new Challenger has given the classic a new lease on life.
Now if they would build a new Charger that has the classic lines.....
Quote from: HANDM on September 26, 2019, 05:44:50 PM
Quote from: 73chgrSE on September 26, 2019, 01:56:42 PM
I see a whole lot of late model Challengers, Chargers, Camaros, Vettes and Mustangs on the road. In some ways the American muscle car is back. Challengers particularly seem to have sold really well. :Twocents:
The new Challenger has given the classic a new lease on life.
Now if they would build a new Charger that has the classic lines.....
I see a lot of young guys in "new" Chargers and Challengers. Think they'd be caught dead in "grandpa's old car"? :shruggy:
I don't think the young dudes would be into the upkeep and low MPGs of our old cars if they actully owned one but literally every time I drive my old '73 they snap pics and shout nice car! Usually get a few people asking if I wanna sell it and how much? Or the occasional guy in a 5.0 or Civic that wants to race. (watch out for those Civics)
AMAZINGLY Even people my age sometimes don't know what model it is. I have had people call it a GTO and a Challenger recently.
Very few daily drive 60s and 70s muscle cars, so why bother comparing modern muscle with 400+ HP that will run for 200k miles on basic maintenance, with AC and all the modern conveniences, to our older cars?
They are, for the most part, good-weather, weekend toys. When the younger generation has time/money/space for a weekend-only car they'll be in the market for something like these cars.
But keep in mind the 2nd gen Charger you bought 25 years ago for sub-$2000 doesn't exist. If they want to get into the classic car hobby cheap, they will be shopping for something else.
Quote from: 73chgrSE on September 27, 2019, 07:55:29 AM
I don't think the young dudes would be into the upkeep and low MPGs of our old cars if they actully owned one but literally every time I drive my old '73 they snap pics and shout nice car! Usually get a few people asking if I wanna sell it and how much? Or the occasional guy in a 5.0 or Civic that wants to race. (watch out for those Civics)
AMAZINGLY Even people my age sometimes don't know what model it is. I have had people call it a GTO and a Challenger recently.
Young dudes can't figure out how to start a cold engine with full fuel bowls, never mind fuel bowls that have gone dry.
Quote from: funknut on September 27, 2019, 08:41:38 AM
Very few daily drive 60s and 70s muscle cars, so why bother comparing modern muscle with 400+ HP that will run for 200k miles on basic maintenance, with AC and all the modern conveniences, to our older cars?
They are, for the most part, good-weather, weekend toys. When the younger generation has time/money/space for a weekend-only car they'll be in the market for something like these cars.
But keep in mind the 2nd gen Charger you bought 25 years ago for sub-$2000 doesn't exist. If they want to get into the classic car hobby cheap, they will be shopping for something else.
Yup. My 74 Charger sat in my mom's driveway throughout my 20's while I was broke and trying to get through school. I was all about the modern Chargers/Challengers during that time, because I could play with them
and drive them every day. It wasn't til I was in a better place (early 30's) that I was able to get a "weekend" car that I could afford to own/maintain.
Quote from: Mytur Binsdirti on September 27, 2019, 10:01:14 AM
Quote from: 73chgrSE on September 27, 2019, 07:55:29 AM
I don't think the young dudes would be into the upkeep and low MPGs of our old cars if they actully owned one but literally every time I drive my old '73 they snap pics and shout nice car! Usually get a few people asking if I wanna sell it and how much? Or the occasional guy in a 5.0 or Civic that wants to race. (watch out for those Civics)
AMAZINGLY Even people my age sometimes don't know what model it is. I have had people call it a GTO and a Challenger recently.
Young dudes can't figure out how to start a cold engine with full fuel bowls, never mind fuel bowls that have gone dry.
Well said. :2thumbs:
Well hopefully my son won't be one of those kids. He enjoys helping me work on the Charger. I hope it sticks.
A whole lotta leasing going on these days. :yesnod:
Quote from: ACUDANUT on September 06, 2018, 04:28:18 PM
The current generation of (18-25) and earlier ages only see cars as a means of transportation. Take a look of the vehicles on the road today. Toyotas are Kia's are killing us. These kids could care a less about old muscle cars and the old saying of "buy American, be American is gone)...Japan's motto is (Buy Japan "be Japanese")...Where has our world gone. We have failed. PEROID.
JAPAN is killing us and no one seems to cares anymore. :brickwall:
Japan, really? Probably not in the top 10 countries to worry about.
I have 3 kids in their 20s. None of the care about cars. Thank goodness.
I really like my cars, but my time with them is limited. After that, I don't really care what happens to them.
Yes Japan. (Toyotas, Honda's, Subaru's .ect) Yeah most are made here, because... (no import tax), and they are all over the road and in your face. Problem is, they are making money on American backs and growing stronger. Hell they are even Hurting John Deere and other American Companies with Jap Tractors. They own those companies and making a killing, and killing our economy....If you have ever lived in Japan (like I have) you would notice they are 99 percent more loyal to their Brands and Country, than we are to ours. Shame. :brickwall:
QuoteYes Japan. (Toyotas, Honda's, Subaru's .ect) Yeah most are made here, because... (no import tax), and they are all over the road and in your face. Problem is, they are making money on American backs and growing stronger. Hell they are even Hurting John Deere and other American Companies with Jap Tractors. They own those companies and making a killing, and killing our economy....If you have ever lived in Japan (like I have) you would notice they are 99 percent more loyal to their Brands and Country, than we are to ours. Shame. brickwall
Detroit in the 1970s: "You don't really want that Jap crap, do you? Be serious!"
Detroit in the 1980s: "Okay, we admit that a few years ago our stuff was inferior to the Jap crap. But not anymore. Give us another chance."
Detroit in the 1990s: "Okay, we admit that a few years ago our stuff was inferior to the Jap crap. But not anymore. Give us another chance."
Detroit in the 2000s: "Okay, we admit that a few years ago our stuff was inferior to the Jap crap. But not anymore. Give us another chance."
Detroit in the 2010s: "Okay, we admit that a few years ago our stuff was inferior to the Jap crap. But not anymore. Give us another chance."
The US public got tired of this game and wised up.
Can you blame them?
Don't worry about the Japanese cars stealing your market share.....that's nothing compared to the full on assault of Chinese cars that's going to flood the world. Already started here with MG Cars (now a Chinese company with cars made in China....Mr Morris (Morris Garages) would spin in his grave if he knew his name was on those cheap boxes!!) and Great Wall cars etc. They are not great yet....but we all said that about Japanese Bikes 50 years ago...then they killed the UK bike industry....our own fault for not responding and building better bikes.....and now they dominate the World....fairly enough...because they are the best.
All we are is dust in the wind. Just enjoy it until you are inevitably blown away into infinity...
I'm more concerned about electric cars and autonomous cars. The way the fear mongering is gong with governments at all levels declaring climate emergencies, how long can it be until they big brother us for the sake of survival and mandate what we drive.
....you mean like has already happened here. Its even more expensive to drive high polluting cars here than econo boxes and from 2042 the sales of ALL new petrol and diesel powered cars will be prohibited. 10% of all car sales in the UK will be all-electric this year. Luckily this is not retrospective so old/classic cars will still be allowed on the road.....and at the moment classic car owners (40 years plus) are exempt from all the environmentally led tax hikes.....and it looks set to continue like that.....to many classic car owning politicians!....luckily!!!
Here stateside in Georgia, 25 year or older cars are exempt from emissions testing and property taxes on mine are less than $2 per year!! Tag is $20 though. Insurance is also cheap on old cars. But gas though...... :flame:
QuoteHere stateside in Georgia, 25 year or older cars are exempt from emissions testing and property taxes on mine are less than $2 per year!! Tag is $20 though. Insurance is also cheap on old cars. But gas though...... flame
Meh.
Is gas more expensive than we want it to be? Yeah.
Is it very expensive in the big picture? No.
We just have unrealistic demands because we like burning it so much.
Quote from: Ghoste on October 01, 2019, 06:42:45 AM
I'm more concerned about electric cars and autonomous cars. The way the fear mongering is gong with governments at all levels declaring climate emergencies, how long can it be until they big brother us for the sake of survival and mandate what we drive.
YEAH!!!
How can you charge up your car with 4 feet of snow on the ground in late September in Montana, and the power is out??? :shruggy:
Quote from: Ghoste on October 01, 2019, 06:42:45 AM
how long can it be until they big brother us for the sake of survival and mandate what we drive.
hate to tell you this, but we're already being Big Brothered to hell for the sake of survival/safety/"patriotism" on things far scarier than what we drive.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Di5eNfYXcAEHOtS.jpg)
I fully agree Ponch. I was merely making the point from an automotive angle.
Quote from: odcics2 on October 01, 2019, 01:38:23 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on October 01, 2019, 06:42:45 AM
I'm more concerned about electric cars and autonomous cars. The way the fear mongering is gong with governments at all levels declaring climate emergencies, how long can it be until they big brother us for the sake of survival and mandate what we drive.
YEAH!!!
How can you charge up your car with 4 feet of snow on the ground in late September in Montana, and the power is out??? :shruggy:
I recently was passed a photo of Rivian's employee parking lot. The charging stations were empty.
electric cars wont take over bc of some government conspiracy, but bc theyre getting better and more efficient than ICE powered cars.
My daily driver is a Chevy Volt. IDGAF about "saving the earth". My commute is 140 miles round trip, plus 200-400 mile work trips once or twice a week. I get 40-45 mpg. If im just driving it around town, I can go days without using a single drop of fuel. Was close to going with a Tesla Model 3 but felt like I needed the safety net of the hybrid mode given how much I drive.
The Satellite comes out once or twice on weekends. The '19 Daytona is basically my toy. No one forced me to, other than not wanting to spend a good chunk of my income on fuel.
Fair enough....but considering how right they got the look of the Model S...that Model 3 is U-G-L-Y.....especially at the front. Had one behind me on the way to work today. I made sure he stayed behind so he could smell the beautiful diesel particulates coming from my 150,000 mile much thrashed (and usually towing) Ford Ranger pick up!
Quote from: Ponch ® on December 11, 2018, 06:57:06 PM
Quote from: Kern Dog on December 10, 2018, 11:50:15 PM
Just like our situation...We have more to lose by looking the other way than we do by securing funds to stop these criminal assholes.
It don't matter. Hate to break the news, but there's already enough of us "anchor babies" and mongrel people here that'll be taking over in a couple of generations anyway. Forget about the criminals...worry about those of us with advanced degrees and money.
Taco trucks in every corner indeed! :lol:
(https://peacesupplies.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/make_america_mexico_again.jpg)
The brilliant guy with an MD from UNAM that H1B'd a fifth pathway residency slot in America, that met and married the architect from UAG while she was visiting family in San Antonio, and they raise a nice family,pay taxes, go to mass, and fit right in and kick ass are not the problem. It's exactly who we want immigrating. The most highly educated and productive wave of immigration as a whole we ever had were professionals leaving Cuba.
People like a buddy I was in 7th Group with whose family came from Spain and have the same ranch - since before it was America, Texas, Mexico, etc. might not be cool with Mexico claiming their property.
Quote from: Ponch ® on October 02, 2019, 11:57:12 AM
electric cars wont take over bc of some government conspiracy, but bc theyre getting better and more efficient than ICE powered cars.
My daily driver is a Chevy Volt. IDGAF about "saving the earth". My commute is 140 miles round trip, plus 200-400 mile work trips once or twice a week. I get 40-45 mpg. If im just driving it around town, I can go days without using a single drop of fuel. Was close to going with a Tesla Model 3 but felt like I needed the safety net of the hybrid mode given how much I drive.
The Satellite comes out once or twice on weekends. The '19 Daytona is basically my toy. No one forced me to, other than not wanting to spend a good chunk of my income on fuel.
Hi Ponch, 30 August 2021
A quick question:
What is the primary source of the electricity used to charge your electric/hybrid vehicle(s)? It has to come from somewhere and something and who pays for it?
Personally, we do not want electric vehicles for ourselves. If'n you want them, that's fine by us. We just don't cotton the idea of our money being used in Fueling/Recharging other folk's green hallucination.
California has shut down most of their Nuclear Power stations and plan to close their only remaining active Reactor, Diablo Canyon in 2025. They do get power from the Palo Verde Nuclear Power station here in Arizona, which has three independent reactors. They can't close it, they can only sell their share of ownership. We in Arizona would love for them to do that because we would buy it.
Best Always
426 Hemi Chicks
I actually agree with that.
By the way....Ponch hasn't been around in awhile.
Quote from: Kern Dog on August 30, 2021, 10:55:15 PM
By the way....Ponch hasn't been around in awhile.
Word on the street is that he died in a Chevy electric car battery fire. Too bad, he was good on CHIPs.
:2thumbs:
Quote from: Kern Dog on August 30, 2021, 10:55:15 PM
I actually agree with that.
By the way....Ponch hasn't been around in awhile.
Yeah it has been a few months...
As far as "our" cars meaning nothing: Enjoy YOUR car now!
I could care less what any of my junk is worth down the road! :2thumbs:
:cheers:
Quote from: odcics2 on September 01, 2021, 10:38:04 AM
I could care less what any of my junk is worth down the road!
Having been married for 34 years now, sadly, my junk is pretty much worthless. :'(
Quote from: Mytur Binsdirti on September 01, 2021, 02:13:01 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 01, 2021, 10:38:04 AM
I could care less what any of my junk is worth down the road!
Having been married for 34 years now, sadly, my junk is pretty much worthless. :'(
Lol, plum wore mine out. 😉
Rust never sleeps, so use your "junk" while you can, eh?
Quote from: odcics2 on September 01, 2021, 02:44:06 PM
Quote from: Mytur Binsdirti on September 01, 2021, 02:13:01 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on September 01, 2021, 10:38:04 AM
I could care less what any of my junk is worth down the road!
Having been married for 34 years now, sadly, my junk is pretty much worthless. :'(
Lol, plum wore mine out. 😉
Hi Odcics2, 02 October 2021
"Lol, plum wore mine out."Wife, car or both?
Best Always
426 Hemi Chicks
Viagra and porn/lotion my friend. lol