I'm just about finished with suspension rebuild, shocks, disc conversion and more.
Now I'm racking my brain looking at engine options. Let me tell you what I'm after, budget and options under consideration.
Goals:
500-600hp streetable. Engine needs to be able to handle power brakes, power steering and A/C.
Reliable and not finicky - this is a 5th car and will get driven once per week at most
Great Gas Mileage - Just kidding. Making sure you guys are still with me ;-)
Looks Great - Not trying to be a $200k show car but want it to look great
Bang for buck - overall best bang for buck compilation of all the above
Budget - $8k-$12k. That said, for the awesome value could go up. Just remember I'm not trying to drag race the car. Just want better than average power, sound, looks etc.
Options:
Blueprint 493 Stroker $8500 including carb. 525hp/590tq. Warranty 30 months/50k miles. http://blueprintengines.com/index.php/products/bp-chrysler-crate-engines-landing/chrysler-493-main (http://blueprintengines.com/index.php/products/bp-chrysler-crate-engines-landing/chrysler-493-main)
Indy Cylinder 500 Mod Man Wedge $10,150 600hp/600tq Warranty? http://www.indyheads.com/bbengines.html (http://www.indyheads.com/bbengines.html)
MRL Performance 493 or 505 $9300 - 550hp/600tq. Written warranty? Complete from carb to oil pan with water pump, dist/wires/plugs/ignition, Aluminum heads, HFT cam, double roller timing set, ARP main studs, Manley head bolts, damper, dyno run for break-in/tuning.
Open to any other good options. To the engine selection above I suppose I would add TTI headers and Billet serpentine kit.
Lets hear your perspective and why... I'm sponging it all in!
I'd go with the MRL classic cruiser 440 myself... http://www.mrlperformance.com/about.html
....or take my time and build my own.
I've got a 512 ci in my 74 and in my 72. They were built out of 400 blocks. Sweetest torque monster engines ive ever had! Both are 600 hp engines and very streetable. I can fry the tires from 0 to 60 without power braking. Both cost me around 8,000
http://www.cmengines.com/Engines/DynoTestedPerformanceEngines/ChryslerPerformanceCrateEngines/tabid/117/Default.aspx
their 522 sounds good :scratchchin:
IMO,
ALL of the listed Engine option(camshafts) will probably require a vacuum cannister as a minimum for Power Brakes ? Dunno about running A/C.
Don't build an engine around your power brake needs. Build your power brakes around your engine needs. Install a hydroboost system and go nuts with that engine. My :Twocents:
just a thought... take a stock steel crank long block, install forged pistons mild turbo cam and then turbo it. will be more streetable than all the above, great vacuum for brakes and capable of 600-800hp depending on boost setting. no replacement for displacement...except boost lol. plus you would really stand out at car shows being the only turbo'd charger most likely
I would like to hear the OP's perspectives, or plans around just what vehicle support systems and/or Car combination the Engine will installed within ?
Things like:
* transmission / Auto(stall speed), or manual
* rear end gearing
* rear tire diameter planned ?
* exhaust model ie; headers exhaust pipe diameter (I know you "suppose" you will add TTI headers?)
* fuel delivery system
* cooling system
etc., etc., basically as much info as possible ?
I know you are not racing and just want better power, sound and appearance, but just say'in here.... there is alot more to the ultimate plan than just selecting a 500-600hp Engine ?
IMO,
Matching the usable power & torque curves available to the components on the Car, and the drivers desires is ultimately far more important ?
because,
making 500-600hp is pretty much childsplay these days.... how it works together IN THE CAR is what matters MOST !
It ain't sexy and may not win the penis thing on Engines ? but sounds to me like if you want the ultimate in trouble-free reliability that can still put a smile on your face ?
You may wish to read through this "lowly 440" thread ? Long read.... but IMO still some valid ideas
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,106687.0.html
and then;
Maybe talk to these guys about upping one of these a teeny bit ?
http://www.mrlperformance.com/about.html
Or
* Duane Porter or "PRH" on here
* Jim LaRoy or HeyOldGuy on here
Get their thoughts ?
Hi EvoKing,
Can't believe those prices for them there MotoRs!
Most Folks I build engines for won't spend more than £3000.
Yep they want 500 horses too, but they is dreamers.
Just doing a 511 440 motor with Edelbrocks and a Crower roller cam/lifters.
If it goes over £5000 I will be shocked and so will my Moparmate who is funding it!
500 horses all day long, but he needs it in a 65 C-body... :coolgleamA:
4.250 is the largest crank you can use with a '440 C-body pan' with a stock pick-up, otherwise we would have gone bigger cubes.
400 blocks are like rocking-horse poo in the UK now.
All the 426 hemi blocks are broken ex race motors, so a non starter.
500 horse small-blocks are dyno queens and would last about a week on da street!
Have you ever driven a Mopar over 150mph?
You can do that with 400hp... :slap:
Quote from: Challenger340 on March 19, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
I would like to hear the OP's perspectives, or plans around just what vehicle support systems and/or Car combination the Engine will installed within ?
Things like:
* transmission / Auto(stall speed), or manual
* rear end gearing
* rear tire diameter planned ?
* exhaust model ie; headers exhaust pipe diameter (I know you "suppose" you will add TTI headers?)
* fuel delivery system
* cooling system
etc., etc., basically as much info as possible ?
I know you are not racing and just want better power, sound and appearance, but just say'in here.... there is alot more to the ultimate plan than just selecting a 500-600hp Engine ?
IMO,
Matching the usable power & torque curves available to the components on the Car, and the drivers desires is ultimately far more important ?
because,
making 500-600hp is pretty much childsplay these days.... how it works together IN THE CAR is what matters MOST !
It ain't sexy and may not win the penis thing on Engines ? but sounds to me like if you want the ultimate in trouble-free reliability that can still put a smile on your face ?
You may wish to read through this "lowly 440" thread ? Long read.... but IMO still some valid ideas
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,106687.0.html
and then;
Maybe talk to these guys about upping one of these a teeny bit ?
http://www.mrlperformance.com/about.html
Or
* Duane Porter or "PRH" on here
* Jim LaRoy or HeyOldGuy on here
Get their thoughts ?
Good questions. Let me answer a few. Yes will go with TTI headers to the existing exhaust or go TTI. Have not researched fuel delivery yet or radiator. Wheels are 15x10 Magnum 500's on 295/55. Have not decided on the rear gearing but probably would leave as is and drive first to see if I need to change it. Though I know it needs posi.
Here are some pics...
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk110/y_mccormick/IMG_1528_zps6ljynmyw.jpg)
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk110/y_mccormick/IMG_1526_zpsmo3zdvxr.jpg)
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk110/y_mccormick/IMG_1530_zpsoogf5i7u.jpg)
Quote from: Evoking on March 19, 2017, 04:41:43 PM
Quote from: Challenger340 on March 19, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
I would like to hear the OP's perspectives, or plans around just what vehicle support systems and/or Car combination the Engine will installed within ?
Things like:
* transmission / Auto(stall speed), or manual
* rear end gearing
* rear tire diameter planned ?
* exhaust model ie; headers exhaust pipe diameter (I know you "suppose" you will add TTI headers?)
* fuel delivery system
* cooling system
etc., etc., basically as much info as possible ?
I know you are not racing and just want better power, sound and appearance, but just say'in here.... there is alot more to the ultimate plan than just selecting a 500-600hp Engine ?
IMO,
Matching the usable power & torque curves available to the components on the Car, and the drivers desires is ultimately far more important ?
because,
making 500-600hp is pretty much childsplay these days.... how it works together IN THE CAR is what matters MOST !
It ain't sexy and may not win the penis thing on Engines ? but sounds to me like if you want the ultimate in trouble-free reliability that can still put a smile on your face ?
You may wish to read through this "lowly 440" thread ? Long read.... but IMO still some valid ideas
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,106687.0.html
and then;
Maybe talk to these guys about upping one of these a teeny bit ?
http://www.mrlperformance.com/about.html
Or
* Duane Porter or "PRH" on here
* Jim LaRoy or HeyOldGuy on here
Get their thoughts ?
Good questions. Let me answer a few. Yes will go with TTI headers to the existing exhaust or go TTI. Have not researched fuel delivery yet or radiator. Wheels are 15x10 Magnum 500's on 295/55. Have not decided on the rear gearing but probably would leave as is and drive first to see if I need to change it. Though I know it needs posi.
Here are some pics...
Very nice Car :2thumbs:
IMHO, building a Car around an "Engine"
after you have already bought it ? may be the wrong way to go ? and something to rethink.
Very nice Car :2thumbs:
IMHO, building a Car around an "Engine" after you have already bought it ? may be the wrong way to go ? and something to rethink.
[/quote]
Hmm, not sure I follow. Am I detecting a bit of infamous Mopar snobbery ;-). Its a hotrod not a road course racer in which every single element - compression, rebound, braking, steering ratio, weight are all dialed in to a specific track. Just want to cruise. ;)
Quote from: Evoking on March 20, 2017, 07:30:25 AM
Very nice Car :2thumbs:
IMHO, building a Car around an "Engine" after you have already bought it ? may be the wrong way to go ? and something to rethink.
Hmm, not sure I follow. Am I detecting a bit of infamous Mopar snobbery ;-). Its a hotrod not a road course racer in which every single element - compression, rebound, braking, steering ratio, weight are all dialed in to a specific track. Just want to cruise. ;)
[/quote]
"just want to cruise" ?
What's wrong with the Classic "Cruiser" 470 HP and 500 Trq shown here: http://www.mrlperformance.com/about.html
Just saying, Probably the best "fit" for an install and go, without too many problems....
on,
your current 3.23 one-legger, 383 2 BBL Rad, 5/16" Fuel Line and Tank pickup, stock mech Fuel Pump, stock Ignition and stock stall speed Torque Converter Automatic Trans ?
But it is most definately YOUR Car, you do as YOU see fit, and good luck with the project.
Challenger340 is the furthest thing from a mopar snob and i do beleive you wont see him offering anymore help after that. Thats a big loss as his expertise is something to pay close attention to. He has no ego or ulterior motives. His suggestions and reccomendations above are spot on for you.
***no snobbing or mockery intended, just straight facts******
I would like to add a question regarding the need for a potential 600 hp engine in a car running a 295/55 street tire? You wont be able to get anywhere near that number to the ground with the chassis components you have installed or tire on it. 500 hp will still be nearly impossible to plant. If it is just a cruiser as you stated and you are not talking about wanting to upgrade the strength of the trans, converter and rear at this point then i would suggest a lower target power range. If you ask why, i would suggest a quick google search on 727 sprag failure as a start. No disrespect meant.
I'll echo the point about Challenger340. I haven't picked up a one-upmanship tone here about these cars from these guys, but everything I have seen indicates that they do know what they are talking about.
I dropped in a ~500 HP engine into my car of 30+ years and the car was useless below about 35 mph with 275 series tires. I started to make changes, and it has started to improve. Having someone teach me about these things ahead of time would have helped me a lot.
Keep asking and you will get good answers. People like me haven't piped in in part because you already have responses from those who know more.
Your car looks very nice, and I think you will enjoy it a lot when you have it set up the way you want.
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on March 20, 2017, 05:34:23 PM
Challenger340 is the furthest thing from a mopar snob and i do beleive you wont see him offering anymore help after that. Thats a big loss as his expertise is something to pay close attention to. He has no ego or ulterior motives. His suggestions and reccomendations above are spot on for you.
***no snobbing or mockery intended, just straight facts******
I would like to add a question regarding the need for a potential 600 hp engine in a car running a 295/55 street tire? You wont be able to get anywhere near that number to the ground with the chassis components you have installed or tire on it. 500 hp will still be nearly impossible to plant. If it is just a cruiser as you stated and you are not talking about wanting to upgrade the strength of the trans, converter and rear at this point then i would suggest a lower target power range. If you ask why, i would suggest a quick google search on 727 sprag failure as a start. No disrespect meant.
I had a couple smiley faces in my response to Challenger340 - was being facetious. And I do appreciate all the feedback!
I think 550 hp with decent street manners is a reasonable goal. The devil is in the details, specifically; 1) compression ratio, 2) head flow, and 3) cam.
I think a lot of guys that want 600HP don't really need it. For $5k-$6k they could warm up a 440 with some trickflow heads, decent pistons and camshaft and scare themselves.
Sheldon
I'd say that in these heavily speed controlled days (here in the UK at least) no one actually NEEDS 600hp for the street.....and lots of folks, me included never see the track/strip except as a spectator. Not stopping me aiming for around 8 or 900 horses though....hell yeah!!!! Might fit 185 rear tyres too......just for fun! :lol:
Quote from: alfaitalia on March 21, 2017, 04:55:45 AM
I'd say that in these heavily speed controlled days (here in the UK at least) no one actually NEEDS 600hp for the street.....and lots of folks, me included never see the track/strip except as a spectator. Not stopping me aiming for around 8 or 900 horses though....hell yeah!!!! Might fit 185 rear tyres too......just for fun! :lol:
Depends on what you are doing on the street... :D around here, 600 hp wont get you the the fini-- er, i mean next gas station. Thats why i put a 700+ mill in my car, you know, just to "cruise" :punkrocka:
Street racing in the UK really has been Policed to death........except in one or two very quiet locations....pity....but understandable. I don't remember anyone ever getting hurt on the local bit of road they used around here. I was too young to take part....and doubt I would have anyway!
Quote from: alfaitalia on March 21, 2017, 09:13:18 AM
Street racing in the UK really has been Policed to death........except in one or two very quiet locations....pity....but understandable. I don't remember anyone ever getting hurt on the local bit of road they used around here. I was too young to take part....and doubt I would have anyway!
Street Racing ?
It's been alive and well in a City 3 hrs from me for 40 years !
And waaay before any "reality" TV show of today.......
even back then, same as today, it has all the haulmarks now used on TV, loosely organized around a hierarchy of someone always wanting to knock another guy off, N/A vrs Boosted, pecking orders and personalties all known to each other interacting, sometimes friendly, sometimes NOT !
Although, sometimes I think those guys enjoy more time wynding each other up through texts and phonecalls(Bench Racing), than actually getting 'er done in summer ?
I still get exposed to it here at the Shop building Engines for some of them, even AFTER moving the shop 3 hrs away 10 years ago.
Just finished an 850 hp Wedge for one guy targeting Buddies blown Chev, now we're doing a 750 HP 426 Street Hemi(91 Octane), and another 700 hp pump gas 512 BB wedge for an up and comer who "just wants to rank" (or so he says), but he still wanted "some" Nitrous capability built into the Piston/Ring clrc's ?
And of course....
he who "wins" on street asphalt on a given night, is ALL dependent upon the co-efficient of friction that can be garnered by whomever ? I think that's why the classic North American stuff still dominates the turbo'd ricer's etc.,
because
the Big/Small Tire Combo Cars can still holeshot the twin-turbo's rice.... and playing catch up is a losing game no matter the power, with 6-800hp seeming the sweetspot as about max a smart racer can somewhat deal with(pedal it) to get going on street asphalt without prep ?
But let's face it here ?
I doubt ANY of these guys are clocking faster than mid-10's on un-prepped
street asphalt ?I think they are ALL NUTS !
But hey, who am I to talk.... I did it plenty myself throughout the late 70's and 80's.
Weight is a factor in the crazy horsepower levels now, too.
The new Challenger Hellcat's power-to-weight ratio is about the same as a street/strip A-body with a hot stroker small block.
Modern cars are getting stupid-heavy and that drives up their horsepower requirements. Our old engines end up being built up hotter just to keep their bragging rights.
Why is 600hp so alluring? Here is an example. Not the burnout. But sound. Sheesh, things sounds like Satan himself... clearing his throat! LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIlJNzSXUZk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIlJNzSXUZk)
Quote from: Evoking on March 21, 2017, 09:59:55 PM
Why is 600hp so alluring? Here is an example. Not the burnout. But sound. Sheesh, things sounds like Satan himself... clearing his throat! LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIlJNzSXUZk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIlJNzSXUZk)
That sounded like an uncapped big block. Nothing special. Bigger problem is, that motor will not be reliable, turn key, power brake and ac friendly as your 1st post specified.
For example, i feel this sounds better, and is only about 375hp- https://youtu.be/iIF0fc_xyvw
And this is only 400- https://youtu.be/9gpncCxfZ44
400 uncapped- https://youtu.be/vQazmSsG4sU
And here is a real 600 hp- https://youtu.be/8K_64P2vZr4
My 512 with 580 HP / 667 TQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t18IV1HSNI
Like others say, depends on what your idea of street is. Mine is completely streetable unless you drive like a nut. It can spin the tires at 45mph+ no problem on 295/50/15 with 3.23 gears.
But I tend to drive responsibly.
My 512 is in the low 500 range, for it to be street friendly I had to put a VERY small camshaft in it, killing it by 80 ish HP, it is a solid lifter cam, my car has AC,overdrive trans with lock up converter,3.54 gear, it is borderline on being smooth below 1800 rpm, it took A LOT of tuning to do so. for a street driven car it has PLENTY of power, have to run Drag radials to keep it from being stupid.
https://youtu.be/HBMz_mpiptI (https://youtu.be/HBMz_mpiptI)
racing a Hell Cat & yes I won https://youtu.be/-2avRWIxI3A (https://youtu.be/-2avRWIxI3A)
Love that car CDR!
Quote from: cdr on March 22, 2017, 04:00:49 PM
My 512 is in the low 500 range, for it to be street friendly I had to put a VERY small camshaft in it, killing it by 80 ish HP, it is a solid lifter cam, my car has AC,overdrive trans with lock up converter,3.54 gear, it is borderline on being smooth below 1800 rpm, it took A LOT of tuning to do so. for a street driven car it has PLENTY of power, have to run Drag radials to keep it from being stupid.
https://youtu.be/HBMz_mpiptI (https://youtu.be/HBMz_mpiptI)
racing a Hell Cat & yes I won https://youtu.be/-2avRWIxI3A (https://youtu.be/-2avRWIxI3A)
What did you to the 518 to make it live behind the stroker, if you don't mind me asking? Just picked up a 46rh last weekend...
P.S. - every time I see your sig pic I think of the movie Blade
P.P.S. - apologies to the OP for the hijack
Quote from: comet_666 on March 22, 2017, 05:08:28 PM
Love that car CDR!
Thanks, I like it too !!!
Quote from: Midnight_Rider on March 22, 2017, 07:13:01 PM
Quote from: cdr on March 22, 2017, 04:00:49 PM
My 512 is in the low 500 range, for it to be street friendly I had to put a VERY small camshaft in it, killing it by 80 ish HP, it is a solid lifter cam, my car has AC,overdrive trans with lock up converter,3.54 gear, it is borderline on being smooth below 1800 rpm, it took A LOT of tuning to do so. for a street driven car it has PLENTY of power, have to run Drag radials to keep it from being stupid.
https://youtu.be/HBMz_mpiptI (https://youtu.be/HBMz_mpiptI)
racing a Hell Cat & yes I won https://youtu.be/-2avRWIxI3A (https://youtu.be/-2avRWIxI3A)
What did you to the 518 to make it live behind the stroker, if you don't mind me asking? Just picked up a 46rh last weekend...
P.S. - every time I see your sig pic I think of the movie Blade
P.P.S. - apologies to the OP for the hijack
It has parts out of a later diesel trans, manual shift.
Quote from: comet_666 on March 22, 2017, 02:18:48 PM
My 512 with 580 HP / 667 TQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t18IV1HSNI
Like others say, depends on what your idea of street is. Mine is completely streetable unless you drive like a nut. It can spin the tires at 45mph+ no problem on 295/50/15 with 3.23 gears.
But I tend to drive responsibly.
Wow you guys with 512 that is a LOT of motor. Makes me wonder what someone needs with a 572. Then again, I have friends that TT their V10 Lambo Huracan ending up with 2000hp and awd. Yes 2000 hp. Nuts. Anyone local to north Texas pls pm me.
Quote from: Evoking on March 22, 2017, 09:47:26 PM
Wow you guys with 512 that is a LOT of motor. Makes me wonder what someone needs with a 572. Then again, I have friends that TT their V10 Lambo Huracan ending up with 2000hp and awd. Yes 2000 hp. Nuts. Anyone local to north Texas pls pm me.
True enough. I owned a Gallardo for a few years, and one thing I did notice, was after a guy spends 6 figures at Underground or wherever, a few months later the car ends up in the Classifieds at a huge loss. Save a few guys, I would guess by that, that 2000whp is indeed too much for some. I test drove the Huracan when it came out and really liked it. And I'll be honest, it felt every bit as fast as the Aventador, and I didn't walk away thinking it needed more power...... I can spin the tires when they're cold at 100mph in my new Viper with a paltry 645 factory hp, I'd consider that adequate in the chassis that is designed to handle it. I think it would be fun, but stupid, in my old 1970 sled. But to each his own.
Quote from: darbgnik on March 22, 2017, 10:22:58 PM
Quote from: Evoking on March 22, 2017, 09:47:26 PM
Wow you guys with 512 that is a LOT of motor. Makes me wonder what someone needs with a 572. Then again, I have friends that TT their V10 Lambo Huracan ending up with 2000hp and awd. Yes 2000 hp. Nuts. Anyone local to north Texas pls pm me.
True enough. I owned a Gallardo for a few years, and one thing I did notice, was after a guy spends 6 figures at Underground or wherever, a few months later the car ends up in the Classifieds at a huge loss. Save a few guys, I would guess by that, that 2000whp is indeed too much for some. I test drove the Huracan when it came out and really liked it. And I'll be honest, it felt every bit as fast as the Aventador, and I didn't walk away thinking it needed more power...... I can spin the tires when they're cold at 100mph in my new Viper with a paltry 645 factory hp, I'd consider that adequate in the chassis that is designed to handle it. I think it would be fun, but stupid, in my old 1970 sled. But to each his own.
Huracan is actually a bit faster than Aventador. Power to weight ratio and also the dual clutch in Huracan make it so ;-)
Quote from: Evoking on March 22, 2017, 09:47:26 PM
Quote from: comet_666 on March 22, 2017, 02:18:48 PM
My 512 with 580 HP / 667 TQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t18IV1HSNI
Like others say, depends on what your idea of street is. Mine is completely streetable unless you drive like a nut. It can spin the tires at 45mph+ no problem on 295/50/15 with 3.23 gears.
But I tend to drive responsibly.
Wow you guys with 512 that is a LOT of motor. Makes me wonder what someone needs with a 572. Then again, I have friends that TT their V10 Lambo Huracan ending up with 2000hp and awd. Yes 2000 hp. Nuts. Anyone local to north Texas pls pm me.
Because 572's are just plain badass, here, go for a 155 mph ride after sitting on a throttle stop for 3 seconds....
https://youtu.be/2ciFpx9QaxQ
Quote from: Evoking on March 23, 2017, 07:09:58 AM
Huracan is actually a bit faster than Aventador. Power to weight ratio and also the dual clutch in Huracan make it so ;-)
Yup, but when the Huracan came out, Lamborghini assured Aventador owners it was still the top dog in terms of speed. Which is why I was surprised the Huracan felt quicker...... When I drove it, there were no real world comparisons yet.