Pretty much set on a rifle, for versatility. Leaning towards an AR. Would prefer .223/5.56. I know quite a few here are gun owners, so figured I'd ask for opinions and advice.
That's like saying I need a truck....
What do you intend to do with the rifle? Shoot squirrels, complete your Rambo Halloween costume, hunt deer, shoot empty beer bottle, defend your bunker, ....... (?)
Honestly, I want a "shit hits the fan" weapon, that I can occasionally hunt with. Mostly it'll get used to shoot targets on weekends.
Lots of choices for what you want. I, probably would buy a Colt AR as they are cheap right now. Second choice would be a S & W AR but an older Marlin 30-30 or Winchester 30-30 could receive serious consideration.
If you are really buying for a SHTF situation, remember, lighter is better and all that "tacticool" stuff just adds weight! A bare-bones AR is always going to be my choice!
Yeah, anything I get has to have iron sights. Scopes and red dot sights are nice, but I want to still be able to aim without them, too. Budget is also 1k.
A decent S & W AR is well under 1K, even with adding good open sights ! Pretty sure you can get a Colt AR these days for under 1K with all you would ever need. In some places, Walmart even sells Colt AR's for under 1K !!
AR's and the .223 are so gaigh, go with the .308
http://www.springfield-armory.com/m1a-series/
Although my personal favorite is the FN FAL.
You'll shoot your eye out, kid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48DN8QWVAJg
;)
To John_Kunkel: I guess you didn't read the part about a 1K budget. You just aren't buying a M1a or a FN FAL for under 1K. I like the .308 and carried a M14 in Vietnam but a decent AR at around 6 to 7 lbs. (my Colt AR's are under 6 lbs. unloaded) and 2 to 3 times as much ammo is more easily carried than a .308. My M14 came in at about 10 lbs. unloaded Probably a little more.
That said, I have a few .308 rifles but they are all bolt-action. I do call my Mannlicher Mountain rifle with a Trijicon night scope on it my "urban-assault" rifle as it is a tackdriver. If I do my part it will easily shoot 1" groups at 200 yds. with cheap factory Remington ammo.
If this is to be TheGhost's first rifle and it is for a SHTF situation, An AR is hard to beat followed closely by a lever 30-30. I guess this is just my opinion but ........... I am hoping combat experience counts!
Quote from: John_Kunkel on October 26, 2014, 04:34:00 PM
AR's and the .223 are so gaigh, go with the .308
http://www.springfield-armory.com/m1a-series/
Although my personal favorite is the FN FAL.
M1A was my first choice, until I seen the price tag. Bit too much, unfortunately.
I agree mostly agree with Charge69.
Lighter is life.....believe it! An AR at 6-7lbs allows you to kit-up
a lot more ammunition. All the tacti-bling BS in the world
won't cover your six if you don't have rounds to put down range.
Once you master iron sights, and it's easy to do, you'll be comfortable
shooting anything.
One large will buy a lot of long gun but remember the weight thing, it will
keep you vertical and ventilating.
I'd love to have an FN but.....$$$$$$$.
Buy a 5.56, something in .308 down the line and a reliable 12 gauge.
Hand guns are nice HD weapons but outside the wire if you have to
draw one (because you didn't di di when you had the chance).......you're already dead. :Twocents:
Century .308 CETME, I bought several a couple years ago for $500 each (most likely went up) bad ass rifles to shoot. Also in .308 PTR also makes a AWESOME .308 H&K copy (probably better than the H&K) I have owned one and a H&K 91 & 93 all Badass I love H&K though...
Good post, twodco !! You, obviously, spent some time in the 'Nam also! A nice basic AR from a reputable company is a good start.
First, what state do you live in?
Second, you never buy just one gun they are very addicting.
Pretty much any AR from a big company will be fine. I built mine with a 16" 1:7 chrome lined FN barrel on a palmetto upper. The barrel twist is really your choice anywhere between 1:9-1:7 will be fine, get a mil spec buffer tube, mil spec bolt and bolt carrier, dont buy into the Nickel boron stuff or whatever the new BCG coating is. I run my AR wet and it hasnt had a problem is over 1k steel cased rounds. Furniture is your choice. I prefer iron sights over a red dot, I have a KAC Micro flip up rear sight and a fixed F-marked front sight post, with that is a Primary Arms Aimpoint knockoff. My lower parts kit is from Palmetto, not the best single stage trigger, I wish I spent the money and upgraded to a nice two stage trigger on it. My lower receiver is from Aero Precision, it was a blemish but all the blemish is is some tooling chatter in the mag well.
I'm in Nebraska, so gun laws aren't too strict, at least not yet.
One last thing to consider is how much you will shoot on weekends vs. what your budget can afford to shoot.
You can shoot 22LR all day long every weekend. Cost goes up from there depending on your cal. choice. Of course you won't be hunting much with that - just an example.
Quote from: charge69 on October 26, 2014, 05:26:31 PM
To John_Kunkel: I guess you didn't read the part about a 1K budget. You just aren't buying a M1a or a FN FAL for under 1K.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/fal-imbel-308-battle-rifle-detail.html?Itemid=0
Nice try, John but, THAT is not a FN FAL. It is an IMBEL built on a surplus parts kit. ::) Even this "parts kit gun" is pushing the 1K mark after shipping, and local FFL transfer fees. That thing barely resembles a real FN and you may count on your life with an Atlantic Firearms parts-kit gun but, not me. :nana:
My suggestion would be a Colt 6920...
When you are ready to build an ultra light weight gun, you can purchase one of my BALIOS-lite receiver sets, and build your dream gun. This one is about a pound lighter than a Colt 6920 we currently manufacture the lightest Billet set on the market. Buuuutttt It's a little spendy. :slap:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8kA5ngspB68/VEvgolR8_OI/AAAAAAAAAGg/FqLV-H8DP7w/w1307-h871-no/IMG_4117.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7ou2c2A2BbQ/VEvgm4mp2lI/AAAAAAAAAGY/jdHSAew4MdQ/w1291-h871-no/IMG_4122.JPG)
Quote from: TheGhost on October 26, 2014, 10:39:31 AM
Pretty much set on a rifle, for versatility. Leaning towards an AR. Would prefer .223/5.56. I know quite a few here are gun owners, so figured I'd ask for opinions and advice.
Quote from: TheGhost on October 26, 2014, 12:09:00 PM
Honestly, I want a "shit hits the fan" weapon, that I can occasionally hunt with. Mostly it'll get used to shoot targets on weekends.
Quote from: TheGhost on October 26, 2014, 12:51:32 PM
Yeah, anything I get has to have iron sights. Scopes and red dot sights are nice, but I want to still be able to aim without them, too. Budget is also 1k.
Well Ghost if you want it for SHTF and hunting (deer I assume) I think the .223 is a little small. In some states, but I don't think in Nebraska, it is not allowed or only allowed by special permit. I would go with either a .243 Win or a .308. It looks as if your budget is around $1K and you want an AR platform, so you might look at DPMS. It looks as if can get either caliber for around $1K. :Twocents:
Yugo 59/66 sks. Its the ak47's father and shoots the same 7.62x39 round. Comes with a folding bayonet, radioactive flipup night sights, and a grenade launcher. You can buy a rifle and 1000 rnds of ammo and probably still be under your budget. They are accurate to 100 yards and i can keep all the rounds "on" a man sized target at 250 yards with iron sights and russian steel cased ammo.
Here is mine.
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j331/groundhogslayer/10246378_10203844058044523_6443816458481749825_n_zpshjjdifjk.jpeg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/groundhogslayer/media/10246378_10203844058044523_6443816458481749825_n_zpshjjdifjk.jpeg.html)
I have a Chinese SKS, completely numbers matching 1956 rifle. You cant believe the amount of cosmo that was on it. I've never really tried it for accuracy but from just goofing around it does around 6" at 100 yards with a terrible trigger. Thats a 1988 CZ82 in the holster.
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j172/Charger34/10513271_10152130634735936_904208916783587334_n_zps912063a1.jpg)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j172/Charger34/IMG_20140613_125901_182_zps1e2eb0d6.jpg)
My 1941 Finnish M39 Mosin. Everybody needs at least one Mosin
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j172/Charger34/M39_zpsf94d3ebe.jpg)
1944 Swiss K31, it will shoot MOA. Great trigger and action.
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j172/Charger34/IMG_20140219_151016_946cropped_zps365e47ee.jpg)
Wow what firearm would you want if the SHTF? Depends if it is local or Country wide? What ever you pick if you'll defending your bunker (home & family) your stuck in one spot, your battles will be up close and fast, Go Colt AR, a short rifle with open sights and stock pile lots of .223 ammo, food and water and be ready to stay for a long time and hope the bad guys don't have RPG's :o. If your on the move to safety (with your family, every one can shoot, right), you'll want lite weight equipment shooting a caliber that you can find on the run, on the dead bad guys or in the basement of the house's across town. House's here in the US of A are full of .223, .30-30, .308 Winchester and .30-06, the bad guy's will most likely have AK type 7.62x39mm or what ever this country's military carries at that time. Some gunrunner will be selling to the bad guys. If you chose .223 go with hollow point ammo or soft point for defense (does more damage if not a killing shot),(not for target practice, you'll be buying the practice rounds pre SHTF and stealing the rest when the SHTF). There will be no rules or laws, no Geneva Convention. Now if you will be on the run by yourself (overland) how about a good old bolt action Winchester or Remington in .308 Winchester? Remembering your need to resupply ammo. A scope is nice on the big caliber's (to reach out and touch someone) harassment/sniper fire, but then you are the aggressor and may not want that attention, but I see you like open sights, good choice on small caliber's, that makes you the aggressor/defender.
You'll never stop with just having one gun. :smilielol:
As for Deer hunting, (are you a bone hunter or meat hunter?), put a GOOD scope on the .223, if legal for you to use and shoot for the neck with soft or hollow point ammo (be sure it functions perfectly before hand). Don't ruin the back straps or quarters. :drool5:
Happy Hunting. Oh, and remember to practice loading and shooting in the dark.
Just my opinion.
Don't worry about all the wiz-bang attachments, Get a Colt, and spend some money on a GOOD carbine course through a reputable training establishment.
I agree with redmist! Get a Colt 6920. Got to say a un-bubba'd SKS or a Mosin-Nagant would be a nice choice if a 30 caliber weapon was your choice. Both the SKS and Mosin-Nagant with 1000 rnds. of ammo would probably come in under 1K but, you are messing with the weight factor again!
Quote from: charge69 on October 27, 2014, 02:33:40 PM
Nice try, John but, THAT is not a FN FAL. It is an IMBEL built on a surplus parts kit. ::) Even this "parts kit gun" is pushing the 1K mark after shipping, and local FFL transfer fees. That thing barely resembles a real FN and you may count on your life with an Atlantic Firearms parts-kit gun but, not me. :nana:
Since the FAL (FN or no) was originally select fire, 99.99% of the FAL's in civilian hands are, by definition, kit guns. Ownership of a full auto receiver/bolt is highly restricted so the original FN receivers are now long gone. There are so many variations of the FAL (90 countries used them) it's impossible to say that any particular gun "barely resembles a real" because one would have to ask "which real one?" My Atlantic Imbel FAL runs just fine, pic below is it.
And, back on subject, the OP isn't looking for a restoration-correct museum piece but for something to "reach out and touch" and the FAL has been doing that quite well for seventy years.
Or if you want to have some fun, make your own AK-74 or AK-47 from a flat. The 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 round is still cheap even the new manufactured stuff.
Nice rifle, John. So, I guess I can buy a rifle like yours and carry just as much ammo as an AR (colt 6920) as yours pictured! I, absolutely love .308 as a cartridge but, that IMBEL copy, as well as an original FN, is certainly no more accurate as any decent AR at any practical range and I'll take a Colt 6920 at 5 1/2 lbs. empty any day over an Imbel, especially if my budget is 1K or less.
My opinion only, but, a "newby", selecting a new and first, rifle would be much better served by a Colt 6920 although they would have to look around a little as Colt hasn't made a 6920 for a couple of years.
bordin34: making an AKS patterned rifle by a "newby" might be a little too intimidating for most people. I, myself, would not trust an AKS made with a parts kit and put together by an individual. Just me! True, the cartridge is more affordable than the .556x45 or, especially, the 7.62x51, but, buying a SKS in 7.62x39 or AKS made up already by a Communist Country in that or 5.56x39 probably is the way to go if you like 30 caliber better.
They still make Colt 6920's so much so, that you can buy one at Walmart.
http://answers.walmart.com/answers/1336/product/21677322/questions.htm (http://answers.walmart.com/answers/1336/product/21677322/questions.htm)
http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Rifles/LE6920Series.aspx (http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Rifles/LE6920Series.aspx)
In fact you can buy the SOCOM version of the 6920 right now for $899 with free shipping!
https://www.gunbuyer.com/p-58950-colt-mfg-le6920-socom-16-with-knights-armament-quad-rail.aspx#.VFBdkPnF9MV (https://www.gunbuyer.com/p-58950-colt-mfg-le6920-socom-16-with-knights-armament-quad-rail.aspx#.VFBdkPnF9MV)
I would stay out of the AK-74 game as the 7N6 Ammo has been banned from importation, and it is driving cost of ammo up on that platform.
6920 LE grab-a-gun was just under $900+ $5 shipping. Went up about 100 after Canada and school shootings.
Magpul version still cheap.
A new 6920LE would definitely be my choice now.
My mistake about saying Colt does not produce them anymore. Now, the 6920 is a whole series of rifles. I was thinking they do not produce the original 6920LE in the original configuration. I got mine back in early 2008 and it has the A3 receiver with the removable handle that holds the rear sight assembly. It, apparently, isn't available this way today. This configuration is listed at 5.9 lbs. and is a full pound lighter than today's 6920LE listed at 6.9 lbs.
The 6920 is now a "series" of AR's made by Colt with 5 different configurations. Get whatever configuration you can buy right now at the cheapest configuration they sell. You cannot go wrong!
If it were me, I would search out a rifle bought in 2007 or 2008 and, maybe just before the Sandy Hook incident! These people paid a lot for theirs and, with prices falling to more reasonable levels, they just might "take a hit" on the price just to get out from under it! Depending on where you live, buying from an individual would stop the paper trail of ownership at the person BEFORE you at the very least. The .GOV doesn't need to know how many firearms I own and what they are!!
Quote from: charge69 on October 26, 2014, 12:19:47 PM
Lots of choices for what you want. I, probably would buy a Colt AR as they are cheap right now. Second choice would be a S & W AR but an older Marlin 30-30 or Winchester 30-30 could receive serious consideration.
If you are really buying for a SHTF situation, remember, lighter is better and all that "tacticool" stuff just adds weight! A bare-bones AR is always going to be my choice!
Can't argue with that one. Go with Colt and go forth with confidence. An A2 configuration with iron sights and a traditional hand guard is the way to go...
Quote from: charge69 on October 28, 2014, 05:36:24 PM
My opinion only, but, a "newby", selecting a new and first, rifle would be much better served by a Colt 6920
Sure, if ya wannabe like everybody else get a Chevy and an AR clone.
Pretty ironic that you would say "an AR clone" when you show a "Parts Kit Imbel" as his choice! Whatever ! I'm just giving him informed options for SHTF-scenario rifles. HE can make up his mind now that we have given our differing opinions. Does buying an AR automatically make you want to buy a Chevy? Certainly didn't me but, maybe where you live.
My first purchase was a .308 and then a couple more then, I got a few AR's and, if you buy a quality rifle and run it "wet", it is amazing how reliable they are. At any practical range that you care to shoot, a 5.56 will do it's job if you do yours! So will a .308-based rifle. I know as I qualified "expert" with a M-14 in 1966 at Marine Corps boot camp. Nowadays, my old azz would take a much lighter AR and twice as much ammo every time. AND, I can guarantee you I would not be taking shots at 500 meters! Inside 200 meters is a possibility but not a probability.
My AR
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j172/Charger34/967834_10152355775130936_2118289416_n_zps7065a4bc.jpg)
Very nice, bordin34 !! A fairly light "red dot" scope really doesn't add much weight. Probably not much more than my handle/rear sight does on my older models. That said, none of my AR's have a red dot sight added. As my eyes get older and actually seeing the sights get harder, I probably should get some of them.
Big fan of the Trijicon ACOG (no batteries) but, not their price! I have their 3x9x40 hunting scope on my Mannlicher Mountain Rifle in .308 and it is an amazing scope! In all but pitch black situations it doesn't need IR to see what is going on. Hoping patience will reward me with a great deal on one!
Since zeroing it I havent used the red dot. I prefer irons on everything. I have this set up with 1/3 co-witness so I can use both with either really interfering.
I have this one. Its one of the best cheap red dots available. Eventually I'll be getting a real aimpoint.
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_30mm_Red_Dot_p/primary-arms-30mm-red-dot.htm
Quote from: John_Kunkel on October 29, 2014, 11:55:31 AM
Quote from: charge69 on October 28, 2014, 05:36:24 PM
My opinion only, but, a "newby", selecting a new and first, rifle would be much better served by a Colt 6920
Sure, if ya wannabe like everybody else get a Chevy and an AR clone.
I know both a Chevy and a Colt will fire every time I need them to; anything outside of that is just personal preference and opinion...
Quote from: charge69 on October 29, 2014, 03:16:31 PM
I'm just giving him informed options for SHTF-scenario rifles.
Therein lies the difference, you evidently envision a SHTF scenario where one would want a rifle that allows him to travel cross country (ala the Book of Eli) packing enough ammo to fight a small war. My scenario is based on simply defending ones life/property from such scavengers.
QuoteDoes buying an AR automatically make you want to buy a Chevy? Certainly didn't me but, maybe where you live.
AR fans seem to follow the herd, like Chevy owners.
If you stay in place in a real SHTF scenario, you will surely die. With me, contact with others, as in The Book of Eli, just would not happen. Minimal contact would be my preferred scenario and movement to ensure minimal contact. No herd here and, no Chevys either! :icon_smile_big:
Nicely said Myk!
In a real SHTF event the majority of us home & property defenders
will be dead in short order by neighbors who want what we have, scavengers
whose intention is to rob the rest of us then there is the SHFT event itself.
Lots of bodies rotting where they fall.
The "preppers" will be the first sought out for provisions and slaughter. Speaking of provisions,
those who feel they can "bugout" are in for a big surprise too.
The only provisions that will count.......if you have time to kit up, is ammo and water.
First responders..........LEO's...........our military?
Confidence would be high that a great many of them would be dead, the rest
would be fighting for their very lives. :Twocents:
I'm not a doom and gloomer or a defeatist but there is nothing more
frightening or deadly than a mass of stupid people hungry and thirsty with weapons. :Twocents:
Quote from: twodko on October 30, 2014, 02:49:10 PM
Nicely said Myk!
In a real SHTF event the majority of us home & property defenders
will be dead in short order by neighbors who want what we have, scavengers
whose intention is to rob the rest of us then there is the SHFT event itself.
Lots of bodies rotting where they fall.
The "preppers" will be the first sought out for provisions and slaughter. Speaking of provisions,
those who feel they can "bugout" are in for a big surprise too.
The only provisions that will count.......if you have time to kit up, is ammo and water.
First responders..........LEO's...........our military?
Confidence would be high that a great many of them would be dead, the rest
would be fighting for their very lives. :Twocents:
I'm not a doom and gloomer or a defeatist but there is nothing more
frightening or deadly than a mass of stupid people hungry and thirsty with weapons. :Twocents:
Reminds me of a discussion I was having about the Walking Dead series: the REAL threat is from none other than our own human race, bent on self preservation and the release of civility and morality.
People have criticized me for not investing into stockpiles of weapons and ammunition; however what you and I know is that most of us will not be able to "hole up" hiding behind crates of bullets. In the event of a catastrophe most of the population will be moved, either by the government or various threats...
Note:
Do NOT break into bordin34 place!
I do not hunt so no help on that front but a .44 mag lever action Henry "Big Boy" would be my choice. Someday when I get a real job I will own one but chambered in .357 to go along with my revolvers.
Retail is $899
Me personally I wouldn't consider a 223 a SHTF caliber.
UNLESS, you have at least a 30 round clip in it .
Rifle calibers are often rated by their "killing power".
Energy at 100 yards (in foot pounds) x Sectional Density (taken from reloading manuals) x Bullet Frontal Area (in square inches) = Killing Power figure at 100 yards.
------------------------------------------------------
.223 WSSM (64 grain at 3600 fps) - 10.1
.30-30 Winchester (150 grain at 2390 fps) - 22.8
.30-30 Winchester (170 grain at 2200 fps) - 25.4
.308 Winchester (150 grain at 2820 fps) - 34.7
.308 Winchester (180 grain at 2620 fps) - 46.2
So it's easy to see, if you just want to piss off an adversary the .223 is your caliber, if you want to stop them you want .30 caliber.
If we're talking about SHTF scenarios then we're most likely talking about door to door, room to room, close quarters encounters. .223/5.56 is more than adequate in that regards, and I would venture that caliber will be easier to find than anything else in a world of scavenging.
And they're called magazines, not clips...
Don't buy anything from anyone selling something based on "Killing power," "Stopping power," or any variation Just, nod, say Mmmhmmm... and walk away.
5.56mm has turned many folks into basketball sized wound channels, and canoed out heads. Ammunition selection is key to getting it to function as intended in your barrel length of choice. It's a flat out nasty round when applied correctly.
Elephants have been killed with a .22LR....so that makes a .22 a good SHTF rifle?
Quote from: John_Kunkel on November 12, 2014, 01:49:32 PMElephants have been killed with a .22LR....so that makes a .22 a good SHTF rifle?
Well in that case how about a nice lightweight rifle like the Henry Survuival (AR-7)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/draftingmonkey/Defense/th_Survival_1.jpg) (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/draftingmonkey/media/Defense/Survival_1.jpg.html)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/draftingmonkey/Defense/th_Survival_2.jpg) (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/draftingmonkey/media/Defense/Survival_2.jpg.html)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/draftingmonkey/Defense/th_Survival_3.jpg) (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/draftingmonkey/media/Defense/Survival_3.jpg.html)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/draftingmonkey/Defense/th_Survival_4.jpg) (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/draftingmonkey/media/Defense/Survival_4.jpg.html)
You can pack a heck of a lot more .22LR than anything else when it comes to having to travel. As for hunting big game you may want to take a read of the article below before relying on big game for food. You would be better off looking at small game which a .22LR is perfect for.
http://www.prepper-resources.com/why-you-shouldnt-count-on-hunting-after-t-shtf/
It makes a difference in choice between a weapon you will travel with and the room/weight that ammunition will require you to carry vs. defending your home and not planning to move around.
You can fit 1200 rounds of 5.56 into a .50 cal ammo can or about 700 into a .30 cal ammo can.
Quote from: bordin34 on November 12, 2014, 05:13:23 PM
You can fit 1200 rounds of 5.56 into a .50 cal ammo can or about 700 into a .30 cal ammo can.
Is that loose packed in the .50 cal can? I thought you could pack about 700-800 boxed.
Something to think about in regards to humping ammo around (weights will vary but this is close), approx weight of 1200 rds:
.22 LR 36gr PHP @ Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 0.75 - 1200 x 0.75 = 9 lbs
.223/5.56X45 (milsurp) 63gr @ Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.69 - 1200x2.69 = 32.28 lbs.
30-30 Winchester 170gr flat nose @ Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.92 - 1200x4.92 = 59.04 lbs.
.308 Winchester 150gr FMJ @ Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 5.25 - 1200x5.25 = 63 lbs.
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=159381
.30 cal cans take up more space in my gun safe but
for me they are the only way to go.
Its a lot easier to hump a full .30 cal can of whatever
than a .50 cal can of same same. :lol:
Hog gun from red jacket
Those are the figures I found loose packed.
I got 900 rounds in a 30 cal can, but it took a long time. :icon_smile_dissapprove: You can stagger them point to point in the bottom, and build layers.
2 years later, and I've finally bought my rifle. Haven't had the chance to shoot it yet, darn job is getting in the way. Planning on taking it out this Sunday. :icon_smile_big:
There we go, those pics are a bit better.
Very nice!!!
Now save a little and go to a carbine course.
SA Saint. Nice :2thumbs:. Shooting Illustrated just did a write up on the Saint and they liked it. Ended the article with the line, "The Saint is a winner". After you shoot it come back and let us know what you think.
Quote from: dual fours on October 28, 2014, 02:30:03 AM
Wow what firearm would you want if the SHTF? Depends if it is local or Country wide? What ever you pick if you'll defending your bunker (home & family) your stuck in one spot, your battles will be up close and fast, Go Colt AR, a short rifle with open sights and stock pile lots of .223 ammo, food and water and be ready to stay for a long time and hope the bad guys don't have RPG's :o. If your on the move to safety (with your family, every one can shoot, right), you'll want lite weight equipment shooting a caliber that you can find on the run, on the dead bad guys or in the basement of the house's across town. House's here in the US of A are full of .223, .30-30, .308 Winchester and .30-06, the bad guy's will most likely have AK type 7.62x39mm or what ever this country's military carries at that time. Some gunrunner will be selling to the bad guys. If you chose .223 go with hollow point ammo or soft point for defense (does more damage if not a killing shot),(not for target practice, you'll be buying the practice rounds pre SHTF and stealing the rest when the SHTF). There will be no rules or laws, no Geneva Convention. Now if you will be on the run by yourself (overland) how about a good old bolt action Winchester or Remington in .308 Winchester? Remembering your need to resupply ammo. A scope is nice on the big caliber's (to reach out and touch someone) harassment/sniper fire, but then you are the aggressor and may not want that attention, but I see you like open sights, good choice on small caliber's, that makes you the aggressor/defender.
Lots of good points if seriously considering a SHTF firearm. I'd also add, it needs to be easily field serviceable and/or have access to spare parts.
Practice and capability is a big part of survival, so if it costs a small fortune to practice, you won't find yourself using the arms much.
Lots of good info above. All I could add is that, there are some great deals on AR's right now. For a first time rifle you could get into a decent one pretty cheap. Lot of ways to modify them too. So, you can pretty much customize it to your liking. Just food for thought. Good luck with your decision.
Quote from: TheGhost on October 26, 2014, 10:39:31 AM
Pretty much set on a rifle, for versatility. Leaning towards an AR. Would prefer .223/5.56. I know quite a few here are gun owners, so figured I'd ask for opinions and advice.
You might like this option:
http://www.80percentarms.com
Quote from: bordin34 on November 13, 2014, 12:59:02 AM
Those are the figures I found loose packed.
When packing can and crate for DoD, there is 900 rounds per can, and 2 cans per crate. Each can and the crate have lead crimp seals. They are 50 cal. Cans.
Quote from: TheGhost on October 26, 2014, 10:39:31 AM
Pretty much set on a rifle, for versatility. Leaning towards an AR. Would prefer .223/5.56. I know quite a few here are gun owners, so figured I'd ask for opinions and advice.
1: Practice regularly and often. This will make you very familiar with your rifle, as well as make you a better shot.
2: Secure your rifle in a safe or sturdy, lockable cabinet...out of sight. Bolt it to the wall and floor.
Daniel Defense... Hands down. They have multiple calibers available, various builds for lighter AR's, and are very accurate.
If I didn't own a gun the first thing I'd buy is a pump 12 gauge. Best all-around gun you can buy because the ammo is so versatile. You can kill deer, birds, bad guys, you name it. Then I'd get a good compact carry handgun and then I'd mess around with an AR or AK.
My favorite rifle is my model 94 Winchester 30-30.
Colt or Armalite AR-15 for me.
http://laughingsquid.com/flower-shell-lets-you-plant-seeds-with-a-12-gauge-shotgun/
Get a X Police dog, or try stealing a dog from a cop car. lol
Quote from: TheGhost on October 26, 2014, 10:39:31 AM
Pretty much set on a rifle, for versatility. Leaning towards an AR. Would prefer .223/5.56. I know quite a few here are gun owners, so figured I'd ask for opinions and advice.
Did you pull the trigger yet?
see reply #56
Now time for some upgrades!
Guns kill people. They should be outlawed.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on February 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
Guns kill people. They should be outlawed.
that's a
bold statement isn't it ;)
Quote from: ACUDANUT on February 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
Guns kill people. They should be outlawed.
Yep. Just like alcohol
makes people drink and drive. Just like baseball bats
make people hit others in the head.
http://articles.courant.com/2013-03-19/news/hcrs-13129hc--20130316_1_guns-people-front-porch
Quote from: ACUDANUT on February 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
Guns kill people. They should be outlawed.
Not just scary looking guns?
While we're on the subject, this is the height of PC stupidity....
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/city-boston-tells-patriots-end-zone-militia-not-allowed-participate-patriots-victory-parade/
Quote from: ACUDANUT on February 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
Guns kill people. They should be outlawed.
So does drunk driving. That should be outlawed, too.
Quote from: TheGhost on April 21, 2017, 07:44:20 AM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on February 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
Guns kill people. They should be outlawed.
So does drunk driving. That should be outlawed, too.
LOL! Joking aprt....it is actually illegal over there right????....nothing would surprise me about the USA! Been illegal here (UK) since 1966....80 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood is the limit....but just 50 over the border to Scotland!!!
Quote from: alfaitalia on April 21, 2017, 08:44:32 AM
Quote from: TheGhost on April 21, 2017, 07:44:20 AM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on February 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
Guns kill people. They should be outlawed.
So does drunk driving. That should be outlawed, too.
LOL! Joking aprt....it is actually illegal over there right????....nothing would surprise me about the USA! Been illegal here (UK) since 1966....80 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood is the limit....but just 50 over the border to Scotland!!!
Yes, it's illegal here.