Got A QUESTION FOR THE VETS i AM STARTING ON MY Project 1969 DODGE CHARGER. I basicly have surface rust with some panels need replacing I started on my right front wheel well i got the engine compartment dont. The whole car is a shell with 90 pecent of the parts in basement. Before I too far wanted to ask you guys a question. I am striping the interal parts like wheel wells engine compartment and the underbody i am got a guy to do the outside. I am stripping it to a bare metal then using self etching primer (sem 39683gray). Then wanted to use polyurethane primer for the final primer prior to final pant. Does anybody see trouble down the road if i do this?
Thanks
Mike O.
mikeorff2003@yahoo.com
SEMPER Fi
Read the tech sheet on the urethane primer you are using, it should tell you on there. I would suggest using an epoxy over the bare metal, instead of the etching primer.
Jason
Quote from: jaak on March 15, 2010, 04:53:35 PM
Read the tech sheet on the urethane primer you are using, it should tell you on there. I would suggest using an epoxy over the bare metal, instead of the etching primer.
Jason
x2 on epoxy primer
Thanks for the info I am trying to post pics of my car on the site so you guys can see it but it keeps saying my pics are to large in size anybody know how to shink the pic size
this is how i resize mine ! prolly not the best way but works for me & are plenty big enough to see on here :yesnod: works for me !!
http://www.picresize.com
follow instructions , on section 2 , click custom , then change the box to pixels & type in 600 in the width box , then click resize
you can use http://imageshack.us/ to upload/host your images
lETS SEE IF IT WORKS
Here is some more pics
more pics
I would have whole car soda blasted/dipped and then epoxy primer whole car.
How do you plan on going about removing the surface rust & stripping to bare metal? LEON.
Quote from: Silver R/T on March 15, 2010, 08:30:34 PM
I would have whole car soda blasted/dipped and then epoxy primer whole car.
Soda won't take that off. Find a trust worthy blaster who uses fine crushed glass. They should be able to take that off without warping panels.
Got a off the wall question for the vets again I need a tranny and a engine down the road i have a 727 auto for big block that some one gave me i was going to sell or trade it for a 4 speed manual put it with a 440. Some one told me there was a 1971 cuda with a v10 viper engine in it that beat a fierri that was in a mopar mag. I was wondering sense i dont have a engine or tranny how much wireing mess and hassale would it be posible to put a viper engine and a 6 speed trany in my car. I heard I could get a engine and tranny on ebay for like 7,000. I was thinking 5oo hp do not need to do any extra engine mods but could my frame handle it and would i have to re-inforce everything. am i crazy or could it happen
Engine bay only passenger side done camera died i have finished driver side but no pic yet
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,54842.0.html
all your viper questions
Nice work man You Make it look so easy with that viper engine wow know i know that it is posible lot of work wow
Front end in primer other than k-frame going to sand blast that
Quote from: Sydmoe on March 15, 2010, 09:05:35 PM
Quote from: Silver R/T on March 15, 2010, 08:30:34 PM
I would have whole car soda blasted/dipped and then epoxy primer whole car.
Soda won't take that off. Find a trust worthy blaster who uses fine crushed glass. They should be able to take that off without warping panels.
How much pressure does it take to start warping panels? I'm at about the same place starting my engine bay. Not much rust but I bought some fine sand and started using a siphon feed bucket with maintaining 80-100 psi on a home shop compressor. Just started using it on what surface rust was there mostly around the battery, some firewall spots, and into some corner areas but have a majority of it left. Other than the rust and paint removal I don't see much else happening. I can buy the glass for twice the price of the sand but using a home compressor verses a commercial high pressure how much is it of a concern? Haven't blasted outside my glass bead cabinet before on car sheet metal so I would like to see what level of sand blasting are we referring to.
Quote from: oldcarnut on March 26, 2010, 11:26:41 PM
Quote from: Sydmoe on March 15, 2010, 09:05:35 PM
Quote from: Silver R/T on March 15, 2010, 08:30:34 PM
I would have whole car soda blasted/dipped and then epoxy primer whole car.
Soda won't take that off. Find a trust worthy blaster who uses fine crushed glass. They should be able to take that off without warping panels.
How much pressure does it take to start warping panels? I'm at about the same place starting my engine bay. Not much rust but I bought some fine sand and started using a siphon feed bucket with maintaining 80-100 psi on a home shop compressor. Just started using it on what surface rust was there mostly around the battery, some firewall spots, and into some corner areas but have a majority of it left. Other than the rust and paint removal I don't see much else happening. I can buy the glass for twice the price of the sand but using a home compressor verses a commercial high pressure how much is it of a concern? Haven't blasted outside my glass bead cabinet before on car sheet metal so I would like to see what level of sand blasting are we referring to.
Pressure is part of it but the type of media is also the problem. Glass breaks down and virtually disintegrates on impact. That helps disperse the energy and not create as much heat. Sand is more aggressive and the energy creates heat in the panel. That's not to say you can not use sand, it is just easier to cause warping problems than with glass bead. If you are using sand keep the pressure down is one thing but also don't blast the panel head on, always at a angle. Also, especially in larger flat areas, keep the nozzle moving so as to minimize heat build up in the area you are blasting. There are a lot of professional basters that do cars all the time with only sand and have no issue with warping.
Good luck!
Quote from: oldcarnut on March 26, 2010, 11:26:41 PM
Quote from: Sydmoe on March 15, 2010, 09:05:35 PM
Quote from: Silver R/T on March 15, 2010, 08:30:34 PM
I would have whole car soda blasted/dipped and then epoxy primer whole car.
Soda won't take that off. Find a trust worthy blaster who uses fine crushed glass. They should be able to take that off without warping panels.
How much pressure does it take to start warping panels? I'm at about the same place starting my engine bay. Not much rust but I bought some fine sand and started using a siphon feed bucket with maintaining 80-100 psi on a home shop compressor. Just started using it on what surface rust was there mostly around the battery, some firewall spots, and into some corner areas but have a majority of it left. Other than the rust and paint removal I don't see much else happening. I can buy the glass for twice the price of the sand but using a home compressor verses a commercial high pressure how much is it of a concern? Haven't blasted outside my glass bead cabinet before on car sheet metal so I would like to see what level of sand blasting are we referring to.
You should not have problems with warping when doing your engine bay. It's easy to warp body panels ie trunk lids, hood, doors (on the outside) wherever there is long flat surface. Engine bay has a lot of creases/reinforcements
More progress started inside interior wish I could work more than two hours a day. Cant wait tell I can finish interior so my welder can weld in my new floors. Should I worry about the fire wall do you guys see the wrinkles in metal or is it nothing. Got different pads from work hopfully can finish drivers side and steering column mount tonight to bare metal and paint.
Got dash half done tonight with new pads. I like these new pads
In the beginning of the topic You can see my hood. Due you guys think I could use a scotch brite pad on a drill to get it or you guys think it would warp it. I just got allot more sanding pads and scotch brite pads. Wanted to try but not to warp it. I planed on sending it out to get sand blasted but if I can do it I would rather do it and put the money else where on car.
More progress hopfully finish interior body guy starts weilding next month
More pics
With confidence booster and lots of help from father in law got passenger side floor cut out and cleaned up have to show you pics today in primer. camera died body guy welding it in Tues. Going to tackle drivers side floor and shift hump next weekend can not wait. Any hints or is driver side about same
here is pics cleaned up
More progress
more progress
Damn Mike! I say again.......Damn Mike! That is some beautiful work and the new floor panel is sweet. New floor panel installations don't get much better. Anyone else in your AO helping with the sheetmetal prep?
I love these cars man so if you have a 727 already, find a 440 and make it produce the kind of power you want. Semper Fi to the original car bro. Epoxy primer, nuff said. Looks great so far.
Tom
"Do or die"
If you're securing scotchbrite pads etc at work is your MOS aviation sheetmetal?
you could have used panel adhesive and glued the floors in, no welding,grinding,rustproofing to deal with and no rust and corrosion down the road
Quote from: elitecustombody on May 19, 2010, 08:44:01 PM
you could have used panel adhesive and glued the floors in, no welding,grinding,rustproofing to deal with and no rust and corrosion down the road
Sounds like an very interesting way, tell me more please. :yesnod:
Per
Yes I am an A&P Airframe and Powerplant mech 8 and 1/2 years Marines on AH-1W SUPPER COBRAS AND UH-1N HUEYS OR M.O.S 6114/6174. I work on Blackhawks now. For the AO prep mainly me little help from my brother and father in law. I can not weld so this Sat the passenger side floor that you guys see is getting welded in my neighbor across the road this sat he does this stuff for living i will post pics after done. I can not wait tell its all in primer i like mopars in primer
More progress sat floor getting welded in then its time for new skin on drivers floor
progress
progress
Looking good
Question for you guys I was reading a post that Troy put out he said he used vinegar to get rid of surface rust. You think this would work on my surface rust.
Best thing to use if you want a chemical to remove rust is Oxalic Acid. Much stronger & faster then Vinegar. Vinegar & Lemon Juice contains Citrus Acid. Wood Bleech same as Oxalic Acid, Bar keepers Friend & Zud also contains less concentrated Oxalic Acid. I just Prefer to sand blast my self. LEON.
If you can get it soda blasted, it's less aggressive
Well floor is in the passengers side the guys has to finish butt welding on drive shaft tunnel but its good enough for now to tackle drivers side this weekend can not wait. He has to tack the toe area too by fire wall too but no warping. and got to organize my garage good progress this weekend.
Cool beans Mike. Love to see the progress :yesnod:
U are doing all of that with rattle cans ??? looks good , your welder did not have a problum with the primer?? I always use ( Zinc Rich Weld Through Primer ) ! :2thumbs:
Yup all self etching primer from sem rattle can. The welder did not say had any problems other than ran out of gas so could not finish my butt weld on d/s tunnel to panel other than that no problems with welding at with the primer.
when you start getting to the exterior watch out with the scotchbrite wheels as they actually polish the metal whis is bad for adhesion. definetly get it blasted with some kleen blast or something aggressive. then epoxy prime, you can lay bondo right over the epoxy primer to do your mud work it sticks better than bare metal. I use napa tec supreme bondo its better than rage gold or any bondo I have ever used . but you also could use an acid etch with a red scotchbrite pad to prep outer surfaces as the surface rust actually has crevices that the eye cannot see. the etch will halp to go deep and kill the rust. I would not use the rattle bomb stuff on the outside of the car period.
I live in a rain forrest and it rains 280 inches a year and I have learned how to make jobs last. If you use the ppg dp-50 grey you will love it it covers very well and your exterior skim coat of bondo will stick like glue to it. put on the bondo and let it sit overnight for a really good grip. the tec supreme rom napa aint cheap but is worth it it sands like butter and has virtually no pinholes. many peope don't realize this but the good ppg k-36 primer is actually waterproof. I blasted a cuda body to bare metal and let it sit outside in rain snow etc for 10 years with just k-36 on it and still no rust it was amazing..
You can try some other method of grinding your exterior if you can't blast it .I would use 8 inch 80 grit on a soft pad with a buffer grinder. you can find the soft pads at most jobbers. it is actually very fast way to strip exterior panels and primer will stick better than hell.
Tks for input 280 inches of rain a year that is crazy tks allot for info again my father in law is up for a week so i can get my drivers side floor cut out and cleaned to bare metal and primed this week can not wait. Out side i am skidish on trying maybe i will try on trunk first and see I was going to do the inside have body do out side but i want to try i relate allot of car work to aircraft because i have worked on helicopters for 11 years and its very similar work. But I have never worked on some thing like this car my dream car so I do not want to mess it up. But with my father in law we can do about anything because he worked on helicopters like me in service and was a body guy.
Starting on drivers side floor marked line for frame and e-brake cable took cole chisel to front.
I used to have an aircraft paint shop at the burbank airport from 83 till 87 I painted a couple bell jet rangers hughs 500,s and a couple A stars. stripped them to bare metal. I painted the santinis air helicopter from airwolf tv series . I have painted over 100 aircraft including long ez,s and a couple lear jets a falcon 7 ,a couple cessna citations, a t-28 trainer an at-6 texan and many dehavilland beavers .cessna 185,s pipers etc. so I know how to make paint stick at 500 mph.Im sure you know all about the etch and alodine process. thats why your onto the self etch primer .
Thats what the french aerospatial a stars had on them from the factory and although the paint would come off with regular yellow aircraft stripper the self etch they used was a mother %$@!^. so you had to use a pink acid stripper man some real nasty stuff , one drop on you and it would immediatly burn the hell outta you. The trick with self etch is to topcoat it within one day or you have to scuff it up real good . it was very thin and you could see the alodined aluminum through it. Looks like your doing a good job Id expect nothing less from an aircraft mechanic. especially helicopters as you are a meticulous bunch.
Keep it up looks like a good project!
Can you post some pics of your car like to see. Hey I have worked on helicopters for 11 years I still can not find the switch for whisper mode can you help me with that lol. Hey where you located be nice if you where in CT. Hey do they make DP sanders that air electric or all air powered.
Mike,
The switch for whisper mode is locate aft of the Johnson rods! Just ask the maintenace gunny where to look for them, he/she will be your friend.
Tom
PS Your earlier post, copy all.
Awesome work man! Great to see another Charger get a second chance at life!! :2thumbs:
Well got drivers floor out got to form front right end clean to metal today and prime
Holes drilled out and more fitting done bare metal and primer tomorrow
Allmost ready to weld in got to get aft of front subframe drive shaft tunnel seat bracket area aft of subframe and little under neather to bare metal hopfully next weekend floor be welded in.
MORFF maybr I missed it in ur posts. Are you still in the Marines? If so where are you stationed. I was in from 1991-1995. I was a 7234/7236. I was stationed at Cherry Point with (MACS-6) Marine air control squadron and then went to Beaufort SC with MACS-2. Great job with the work that you are doing with your Charger!! Semper Fi
I am out now working on blackhawks in Ct. I was stationed at MCAS NEWRIVER in Jacksoville,NC. from 99-TELL 03. I was stationed with HMLA 269 the Gunrunners. Then from 03 to 06 was with HMLA 775 DET-A in Johnstown, PA.I think now they are 773. My mos was 6114/6174 Huey and cobra mech Flight line shop. Semper Fi.
MORE PROGRESS DID NOT HAVE GREY PRIMER GOT UNDERNEATH DONE UP TO REAR SEAT FOOT PANEL
JUST GOT TO DO FRONT FLOOR LIP ON FIRE WALL THEN READY TO WELD IN
out of sink sorry
I was wondering is it possible that the owner prior to the one i bought it off of sandblasted and primed the car but waited to long and that's why the surface rust came though. both front subframe areas where coated with sand. Because the interior looks like primer green to me and i dont think that was stock primer color was it?
my former superbird had the same green paint under the factory yellow in places. when I took off the vinyl top there was a light green paint or primer??? don't know kinda freaked me out it. I thought it might have been sprayed this light green mettalic then picked out to be a bird and then the color change to yellow. I have seen cars right from the factory that changed colors midstream. I have noticed that the straightest cars get painted black and the wobbly ones get a bright color or white.
The green thing is kind of a mystery to me still, but is not unusual. maybe someone can answer it . I have pics of the factory top being stripped off and the green paint is obvious. awesome job!!!
I seen a oriniginal paint 67 coronot that had green primer under the yellow. If I remember right it had black or both black & then red primer under the green. All from the factory. I beleive the light green primer was sprayed just because they new the car was going yellow. Red or Black primer would make the yellow to dark. :Twocents: LEON.
progress Just got the front lip on firewall to do then have guy weld this pan in
I got my front lip done some hylocks and epoxy primer most likely outlast my lifetime maybee my boys too
Alright you guys are going to laugh but my 105 pound bullmasiff ate my memory card for the camera but my driver side is finally ready to be welded in hopfully this week coming up. I am at a cross road what should i do if i make it a manual like i originally wanted lots of money for conversion kit. I was wondering if i get a trans brake for my 727 tranny with a B&M shift kit do you think it would still be good and cheaper than going manual. Then I can spend more money on engine.
Does anybody have a pic of A B&M shifter in a 69 charger just wanted to see what looked like thanks.
Oh man this brings back memories haha. Looking good keep it up. :2thumbs:
Progress wife gone sense thursday.
progress
Just got to gey guy to weld in drivers floor then caulk it and play with shifting hub.
THE START OF TRUNK PANEL GOT ALL PANEL NOW MORE PROGRESS TOMORROW HOPEFULLY
GOT TAIL AREA CUT OUT TO THE TRUNK PANEL WE GO
making good progress, keep it up
Quote from: MORFF on June 17, 2010, 06:44:54 AM
I was wondering is it possible that the owner prior to the one i bought it off of sandblasted and primed the car but waited to long and that's why the surface rust came though. both front subframe areas where coated with sand. Because the interior looks like primer green to me and i dont think that was stock primer color was it?
Thats what I was thinking when I saw it before you started cleaning the rust. The color thats left looks like self etching primer like Dupont 615 VariPrime. I have used gallons of it over the years.
Highbanked Hauler so are you thinking I was on key that they started to restore my car then stoped? You thinking that it was primer other than the factory in the sixties. Thanks for all the input and help guys!
Started removing trunk panel yesterday
trunk work
what trunk??? i guess i'll stop bitching about my cars condition, keep the faith :2thumbs:
My trunk was my worst area thank god for AMD panels with the full trunk panel.
more progress trunk lots of frame to look out for
Seems like your moving right along. :2thumbs: I'm at about the same stage with my project... I welded in the front floor pan over the weekend. I still need to do the rear floors, weld up some holes in the fire wall (original A/C car), then back to the trunk floor. I will also need both quarters and rear valance too. Unfortunately, I don't have much time, just get done what I can when I can. Keep up the good work!
:cheers:
Progress right side of trunk just got fwd sidehopfully get it tomorrow two day tell father-in-law comes with welder
progress got driver floor welded in too with help from father-in-law have to get pics today back at it again hopfully trunk be welded in
progress
progress
is that por15 on there?
Yea thats the por 15 on there got to finsh cleaning the trunk area get in primer do a second coat of por in frame rails then paint whole area in primer. to get ready to weld trunk in
progress have to do patch or panel replacement on trunk extender on drivers side little on passengers side frame hard area to clean up and strut sapport to clean up then can drop trunk panel in
progress pics
more pics
progress and better look at how bad trunk extender on driver side is either replacing it or making patch panel only bad in one area
Well got a little done today on Columbus day got my hard frame area cleaned and painted on the passenger side for the trunk area. Now just got to clean the strut support area. But I might do the back seat back side really looks like it would be easier with trunk panel out.
Got back of seat done took out shock and muffler support. got shock inner support area then almost done. put the trunk floor in
got it in self eitch primer want to put por on it once get everything done.
progress does the rear shocks go in easy with trunk installed?
If I jack up back on rear end to get back seat area and frame by wheel well do you guys think anything will warp or tweek because the trunk is not welded in? I was going to take back tires off to gain access.
Is your car currently sitting on the wheels? If so, then jacking up the car under the rear end shouldn't warp anything because all the weight is already on the rear end. Just put your jack stands under the rear end and not on the frame rails.
It s good to see you moving forward. keep it up. :2thumbs:
Well got my driverside trunk extender panel 118 bucks owe but it looks nice. I am going to have my body guy do that and the patch panel on rear quarter. Its coming I hope i reach my goal of all body work done this year and in primer. I am almost there. Tks guys for all input Semper Fi
Great work there friend. :2thumbs: Can you use a full trunkpan with only the quarters off or does the tailpanel has to go aswell?
Per
Got quarter cut out for body guy and progress
progress
Progress old and new Drivers side trunk extender panel
Belgium R/T -68 If you want a full trunk panel piece you either have to cut out rear valance piece or the Tail panel. They due sell half trunk pieces but i personelly like the look of orginal full trunk piece from AMD. But it does cost a little more but I think its worth it. But if you have a full quarter off you might be able too ask the boys on here. I do not have to take full quarter off for my project.
Trunk work progress hopfully can start again next week if weather works with me.
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5760/trunkleftside.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3070/trunkrightside.jpg
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1330/trunksparetire.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6134/trunk.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8287/trunk2.jpg
Can not get pics to turn out good sorry