Car idles good in park, also idles good when put in reverse/drive but as soon as the lights are switched on the car misses and dies unless RPM's are kept up. I've cleaned the ground for the voltage regulator, ECU and headlight ground onthe fire wall as well as replacing the voltage regulator...still the same, any ideas?
Thanks
AK
carb tuning or vacuum leak , the extra draw from the alt shouldn`t kill the engine
Put a voltmeter on the battery and see what voltage you're getting there
This problem is still vexing me >:( Checked all grounds, swapped out voltage regulator with a known good one and last night removed alt and tested it at Autozone ®...Checked good.
Alt puts out 15 volts on the car and about 12.5 reaches the Battery. Put lights on Alt still puts out the same but car dies (when in gear).
Thinking out loud here:
- AMP's??? could low amperage cause the problem..Autozones ® tester doesn't check Amps
- I thought about a wire grounding out somewhere causing a problem but that would have blown a fuse
- Bad Ammeter gauge? I'm using the factory gauge but it's working fine and deflects left and right normally
- All visable wiring is tight and looks good
- Voltage Regulator? Swapped that out...but even if I installed a bad one would it really kill the car?
- I'll try enriching the carb mixture as Chryco suggested. I was fiddling with it but I didn't think the alt would pull that much power and stall out the car
- Vacuum...I'm sure it's good, plus when I hit the power brakes (large user of vacuum) that has no effect so I'm discounting that ave.
- Also not only headlights cause the problem but lots of electrical power stuff on...especially when car is at operating temperature and running a while. For example I was backing up in the gargage and car was stalling. Realized I had stereo on and brake lights. Turned off stereo and backed up fine...no stalling problem
Guys....I'm open to any suggestions. Anyone hear of anything like this before???
to me it sounds like you have a bad connection somewhere.
the volts at the alt should be the same at the battery- within a volt or so- 3.5 volts different is telling me that there is a problem. check the bulkhead connections for the power wires and the ing. wire feeding the ing.system.
next- what is the fusable link look like??? look at the outside covering- does it look like it is burnt, plastic wavy???? it maynot pass enought current to operate the whole system- but enought to allow you to start the car and run it and no acc.'s running.
what is the rpm's at idle??? if it is less than about 8-900- then the alt will not generate lots of power until the rpm's get up past around 1000-1100.
John Mac
Just for the heck of it I'd have the battery tested.
Hmmm fuseable link...well I'll try anything..I'll go take a look, thanks Deputy.
Batt is only 3 months old and is strong. At least it sits all week and cranks every Friday for work (drive it once a week...wether it needs it or not)
10-4 what you are looking for is a weak spot in the system- burnt, discolored wires or connectors!!!!!
Had the same problem when I bought my 71 about 10 years ago. One of the wires running from the alternator was damaged. Out of the approximately 16 strands of wire in the cable, only 3 or 4 were still good. So everytime I turned on something that used a lot of juice (like the headlights) the car would die.
OK played with car for about 6 hours today with no success...here's what we did
- Shot power from Alt all the way up to bulkhead connector..about 15 volts
- Shot power coming out of bulkhead connector ar Fuseable Link (FL) was down to 13 volts...would seem like problem is inside the car
- 13.4 volts going in to Ammeter and 13.4 comming out ( I thought that might have been bad)
- Systimaticlly disconnected everything in the hopes of removing whatever was causing the resistance...NOTHING
- Harness under the dash is new and unmolested, no bad wires
- If we isolated either the tail lights, brakelights or headlights problem went away. I thought we had it licked when we disconnected the wafer plug at the drivers kick panel and problem went away but that was just 2 hours of chasing our tail..It seems to be a current draw problem not a bad ground/short problem
- Took another voltage regulator and a new Alt of my '72. The new Alt was actually worse and would stumble and try to stall with car in park and RPM's highter!
- Checked for bad gounds on everything...nothing :flame:
NH, tell me more about those bad wires...
AK
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two things come to mind here.
one- there is a splice in the harness in the dash- this feeds the headlights and to the ing.switch. it is a chrimp type of connection- factory did this- don't know about repo's!!!
second.... the connection at the bulk head harness is bad- like it dosen't have a GOOD connection to the engine harnees/ or harness to the battery.
any bad connection can cause it to drop several volts, this will cause some heating of the wires/connectors.
hint- do you know ayone with a infrared / remote temperature reading device??? pointing the puppy as the system is running will pinpoint a reading higher along a cable that's causing a heat point- tada- problem found!!!
Quote from: AKcharger on September 05, 2005, 04:20:48 PM
NH, tell me more about those bad wires...
AK
Sorry AK, it was so long ago I can't remember. Trying to think back it's also possible that it was the ground from the battery to the engine that had the broken wires. I do remember I couldn't figure it out and had to have my mechanic find it for me.
- NH, We tried that, ohmed the batt ground wire...checked good as was ground at the block itself.
- 71, I'm following with ya'. We pulled the plugs at the bulkhead and all the connections were clean and tight. The actual bulkhead block was part of the new (5 years) wire harness so it is in good shape.
- That splice on the cockpit side of the bulkhead is indeed suspect but we couldn't find it since the bundle is so think. At 1st I thought "no way it could be splice since the harness is "new" but if there is one thing I've learned on this car is "new" or "rebuild" doesn't guarentee anything...that temp gun is a brillent idea! just need to find one
Thanks for following this guys.....
10-4 looks like a tough one to find!! :P :P
I'm agree on what 71deputy is saying.
Do you have the same problem when you turn on the A/C or Heater ?
I ask this becasue all accesories runs by ignition switch and lightning net Doesn't, just runs directly from charging system line with a direct wire from the splice mentioned. The blower is the electric device with higher consumption on the car. My thoughts is if you don't have problem when you turn on the blower, then the problem could it be on lightning system, starting with lights switch.
That splice comes from the bulkhead cavity of the Alternator wire and runs up ammeter, so isn't really hard to find.
You could try this to discard or not the splice: remove the black wire of alternator from cavity and runs a separate one from bulkhead up to ammeter ( black side stud ). From ammeter ( same stud )feed the ignition switch on red wire prong ( of course, remove also the red wire on ignition switch plug ). and start the engine... be sure you have tighten the nut stud on ammeter. Check on batt.
With this step you are bypassing the splice stuff and just running the engine, no any device connected on battery side of fuse box or lightning net.
if you get good juice at batt then next step is FEED DIRECTLY FROM AMM STUD the lights switch. It is also a heavy black wire what runs up to switch and make a new test without lights first and then with lights on.
You can do the same with batt side of fuse box after or before that.
Sounds hard but really is easy to do this.
Thanks for the tip Nacho
Reading your suggestion it sounds like I'd have to cut into the bundle at the black wire to by pass everything...so I'd still have to find the splice to see where the problem is...I may take that route as a last resort.
I played with it again tonight with not much success. put the old alt back in and changed out all the brake light bulbs in case they were internally shorted. The extra frustrating part is it is not constant. For about 10 min I could put it in gear turn on all the lights and it would be fine...other times turn on lights and it dies right away.
One thing I keep coming back to is the tail light splice that we played with Monday. (see picture with corrosion) as I was cleaning out the trunk with the radio on I hit the splice and the radio went out.It came back on in a minute hit it again and it went out again...this must be it!!! Well, I restripped the wires respiced them again and it was worse than ever (but wires were short and simply twisted). Made wires a bit longer with tighter twists and...about the same sometimes it was good, some times it would die...no difference
I might just wait till something catches on fire...at least then I'd know where the probelm was!
ok, then as we have supossing is apparently on lighning net.
what I was saying is not hard, just running a parallel wire from bulkhead up to ammeter and then from there to ignition switch and anywhere. you need just remove terminals from bulkhead/plugs to be able to reconnect everything.
OK I'm with ya', let me take a look at that tonight!
You might want to retest the circuits that you checked with an ohmmeter using the voltage drop method using a voltmeter.
Ohmmeters don't test the circuit under actual operating conditions. Here's an example.
Lets say you suspect high resistance between point A and point B in a circuit that draws several amps. The wire has 20 strands in it but 18 of them are broken. An ohmmeter will show low resistance because it sends a very tiny amount of current through the wire.
But if you take a voltmeter and test between points A and B with the circuit operating it will probably show several volts on the voltmeter.
That is how much voltage you are losing by trying to push a lot of current through a couple strands of wire. A reading of .5 volts or less is reasonable in most circuits. The thing to remember is that the circuit must be operating.
so it's like a poor man's way to check amperage? Makes sense. Car is on hold till the weekend then I'll play with it again...leave next week for Kansas show so hope to get it fixed by then...or I'll just drive without headlights :P
Quote from: AKcharger on September 07, 2005, 07:26:58 PM
so it's like a poor man's way to check amperage? Makes sense. Car is on hold till the weekend then I'll play with it again...leave next week for Kansas show so hope to get it fixed by then...or I'll just drive without headlights :P
You're not checking amperage, you are checking resistance.
For example, If you have a good battery cable to the starter and put your voltmeter between the battery post and the large post on the starter. You should see a low volt reading on the voltmeter when cranking even though a large amount of current is flowing through the cable.
Well, now it's not doing it? After I fiddled with all the stuff above the problem was still there, then I drove 3200 miles to Kansas and back and during the trip and ever since I've had no problems at all. I'm almost mad the problem cleared up on it's own because that means is it could come back as quickly as it vanished...Perhaps I should change the car's name to "Christine"
Thanks for all the suggestions though guys!
Sometimes it's just the driving. I make a 5 hour (one way) drive to Columbus every summer with the constant running around at the Nats for four days. My car usually runs its very best when I get to Columbus and when I get home. As soon as it gets back into the once or twice a week around town gig, little problems seem to crop up.
The moral of the story?
DRIVE YOUR CHARGERS!
Is your factory Alt gauge still hooked up? When they go bad you lose your power. Now I have had two just died. Just hooked the power to ALT gauge to the power out post and was fine.
Reason I ask, if you have one going bad, but still trying to hang on I would think that maybe it could cause something like you where posting about.
I will add I was getting the creeps reading this posting.
Cuda Ken
Ok...it's back. Same problem as 8 years ago. Only difference now is when the car is "cold" it's fine, it only happens when it's been operating for 10+ min. And now I can be driving at highway speed and car will actually "stumble" for a split second when the headlights go on. Here's what's changed since 2005:
- car has been in humidity controlled storage and driven on occasion, last trip was 750 miles in April
- did the famous "headlight mod" last Oct bypassing the ammeter and light switch, worked fine after that and drove it at least 1000 miles since http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,168.125.html
- just finished a 1200 mile trip from PA through blue ridge parkway to Florida. Wasn't noticeable at start of trip and now have to do some fancy footwork at traffic lights to keep it from stalling when I hit the brake (lights)
Open to any all suggestions.... :brickwall:
ECU?
It might be the same issue as 8 years ago or it might be something new. I think I would start by making sure the battery terminal connections are clean and tight and then measuring the battery voltage at idle and then stepping on the brake pedal or turning on the lights. I think those voltage measurements will give us a starting place to do some trouble shooting.
You where working with a high resistance in your wiring before. Lets do some basic elimination troubleshooting.
Hot wire the ignition. If necessary put a spare battery in the car on the passinger side floor and run power wires to the ignition and ground. Does this fix the problem?
- I swapped out the ECU 2 days ago (was missing bad but turned out to be vacuum advance)
- I like the idea of isolating everything and going from there
- might try the alt gauge like ken suggested 8 years ago
2 things you can do easy, check volts @ the coil both when running good and crappy. Buy a new replacement ignition switch and don't install it, just plug it in and leave it loose to test if the contacts in the column mounted switch are weak.
Look for any drop in volts at the coil, one of the unexpected but good things I found when I changed to a 120amp Denso was my ignition got stronger across the board. I think because there was just plenty more juice available @ idle. (The Denso puts out 50-60 amp at idle if needed.)
The ignition switch could be a choke point for power if not making firm contact inside from oxidization or wear. (At worst you have a backup part, they are not expensive.)
Poor idle amp output drove me nuts for a long time! You may just have marginal Alt. output.
Do a "pull test" on all connections new or old, I bought a new engine harness for my 70 Charger and when thoroughly checking it the blue wire at the bulkhead just slid right out of the crimp! It was crimped but not tight to the wire. Had I missed it assuming new is must be perfect I'd been chasing my tail after awhile as the connection degraded and ignition starved for voltage/amps. (The loose connection would have built up heat as it ran, much like you are describing.) Use your meter to look for voltage drops. Use OHMs to look for resistance. (With the power off.)
Copy all Blue, thanks I'll hit it with the meter
Ignition switch huh? :scratchchin: that connector plug has seen better days for sure. Would the ignition switch still be involved in the stumble when turning lights on/off and brake lights??
My thinking is yes it "could". You have been through so much hunting as I followed your thread I was trying to think of where else to check.
Say your losing 15% capacity to ignition through the switch "generally" and you turn on your lights. Now total Alt. output is taxed (Known to be lowest at idle.) so now your 15% is from a lesser value so greater voltage drop at the coil. Any poor contact in the switch or harness connections would show as resistance electrically and that would relate to less voltage/amps and very importantly would also generate heat. As it heat starts and increases resistance follows to a higher value and that creates more heat so the cycle continues until a maximum value is reached for all the variables involved at that particular time frame.
A switch is one item electrically that could could give random variable readings with each cycle of use depending on wear pattern/corrosion of the contacts. With each cycle setting contacts slightly off you could get 100% effective one time and 85% the next.
I could be barking at the moon and 100% wrong but if so it at the very least it would eliminate 2 aspects of your problem to look elsewhere for trouble. (With little effort and expense.)
How old is battery? What brand? I prefer Interstate. Many of the parts house ( Read CHEAPER) batteries are junk after only 2 years.
I had an import do this to me as it was running off tge alt. Only and when loaded, it would rob from ignition first. Battery was junk.
Hmmm I'd better take another look at that switch/wire connector. I recall back in '05/'06 the red power wire actually melted at the connection (remember it well, I had to splice the wire in a bank parking lot) and I had to bypass the connection at the splice with the power wire. I don't recall any issues from the few times I drove it during storage and this past Oct I had the column out for the 4 speed swap...maybe I disturbed something? does anyone sell new male/female connectors?
Cooter battery is old...same one it went in storage with in 2006, and I think it's the same one since the 2003 restoration...a 10 year old battery? do they last that long? well, it works fine, no problems and cranks OK...so this is same problem you had? I thought batteries that had enough juice to crank a big block meant they were good?
Thanks guys!
P.S. I'm back in Alaska so trouble shooting delayed till I'm back in Florida with the car in 2 weeks...but keep ideas coming!! :2thumbs:
I would lean towards either a faulty alt guage or perhaps the damaged cores ( as detailed by Bryan ) in one of the main looms. If even one of the main looms got a nick or knife slice in it back when it was new, it would wick in moisture to that cable and the cores slowly die bit they increase resistance and opposition to current flow would build. It would become more apparent when more is demanded upon it, like you say when the lights go on.
I had to make some part looms for my car to cure some problems, bit of a mission.
10 year old battery! :lol: Cooter nailed it! :2thumbs:
You just described the "melted wire" for the switch.....I can only wonder what the contacts inside the switch look like. :scratchchin:
OK next trip down to Florida I have a multi-pronged action plan :2thumbs:
...will keep ya posted
I was about to order up the switch but found two types. The 1st one is what I recall seeing last time I had the colum apart but the second one is the one I want to BELEVE is the one I need since it would be easy to swap out...the one with the harness would be a nightmare.
(http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=44046&imageurl=http%3A//www.rockauto.com/info/SMP/US88_PRIMARY.jpg)
First one is 70 up, what year car?
'70. I think that would explain it, the 2nd one does look 'in dash" doesn't it? It's advertised as '70-'76 non-tilt
Yea 2nd is "in dash". I got mine from Advance Auto after getting a bad one online. (A.A. has lifetime warranty.) You'll be going in deep to swap that out. Do a search here for what is involved. :eek2: (It's worth doing!)
Update!
OK I swapped out the ignition switch, as you can see from the photo the connector was trashed. I was hoping the contacts in the switch were bad but when I opened it up...it looked pretty good :-\ Anyway I put everything together and fired it up and........ (Drum roll)....It's does the same thing! @#$%^&*((&!!!!
My next plan of attack was to disconnect the rear light (which I think I did back in '05) to try and isolate the problem but since disconnecting the lights interrupts the whole light circuit, not just the tail lights...would that do any good?? Also need to do Blue's wire shoot as described above
Suggestions needed...I'm at 7 years and counting :flame:
So if you're just joining us:
- Car starts, runs fine
- If car is "cold" no issues
- after a few minutes if car is at idle and you turn on an electrical item (lights,/brakes/wipers) car dies...keep the RPM's up and it's fine
- Once electrical item is on car is fine, it's just that momentary on
- Headlight relay mod C/W
- New Alt, multiple ECU's, & ballast resistors
- no weird "MODS" done to car
One good note I've developed some pretty fancy foot work when stopping to keep the car from stalling :yesnod:
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p201/AKcharger_photos/70%20Charger/20140706_213354_zps77624bd9.jpg) (http://s129.photobucket.com/user/AKcharger_photos/media/70%20Charger/20140706_213354_zps77624bd9.jpg.html)
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p201/AKcharger_photos/70%20Charger/20140706_152418_zps226a1836.jpg) (http://s129.photobucket.com/user/AKcharger_photos/media/70%20Charger/20140706_152418_zps226a1836.jpg.html)
Got a pic of the "red wire" ? :scratchchin:
No, but it was ok, the heat damage was at the connector, that fried back in 2004.
Having dealt with poor idle output from the factory type alt. for many years I'm thinking can you rig a meter to read off coil voltage while driving? There is a brief moment when something is turned on that the voltage regulator reacts to the voltage drop. Now that I run a 120amp Denso with plenty of idle output my ALT gauge shows that "bip" and I did notice my engine idle got stronger with the alt. change.
Perhaps the coil voltage is minimal for some reason? :scratchchin:
Thanks Blue
I'm thinking the cause is some big resistance somewhere in the light circuit. My next plan is to:
- Run dedicated ground to stereo...this will tell me if it's a ground issue or a power surge issue (remember stereo turns off with lights too)
- Cannibalize the 2 month old Battery from my '72 and see if that's the issue per cooters suggestion. I can't see anyway how the battery could do it but I'll leave no stone unturned (and if it works I'll owe him an apology for not believing him months ago)
- I have a new M&H Rear light harness on order and plan to swap that out
If that doesn't work I'm going with the 120amp alt and a new dash gage
10 years on any battery is highly suspect. However a volts check should show state of condition. I've a topic on my alt. swap but the complete kit from Mancini is NLA. I'm seeing several upgraded alt. available now that may be even better, anyway look into that before changing anything. :2thumbs:
I have (#1) my ammeter (alternator gauge) bypassed (the quickest and easiest way to do this is to connect both wires to the same ammeter stud), and (#2) an 8 gauge wire going directly from the starter relay stud to the alternator output stud. Those are two common modifications to improve the charging circuit, taking all of the heavy load off the bulkhead connector in the process, though you do lose the function of your ammeter of course. You could try it to see if it makes a difference; the absolute quickest and easiest way to try it out is to skip #1 and for #2, just use a jumper cable from the starter relay stud to the alternator stud.
Also, if you suspect your ignition switch wiring is faulty, you could try putting the ignition system on a relay. Even if that doesn't fix the problem, it will improve the available voltage to your ignition system, for whatever that's worth (it's worth more in an HEI conversion than in the stock ballast resistor system). For example, mount the relay on the firewall and power it with a 10 gauge wire from the starter relay stud. Once you do that, the juice for the ignition system won't be pulling through your ignition switch anymore, it will be going from the battery or alternator through the factory 8 gauge wire or the 8 gauge alternator-to-starter relay wire you added > through the 10 gauge wire you added to power the relay > to the relay > to your ignition system, which is a very robust path (it skips the bulkhead connector, ignition switch wires and terminals, and ignition switch altogether). This also makes it easy to "hotwire" the car (by jumping the added relay which turns the ignition system on, and then momentarily jumping the starter relay or solenoid), which may or may not be a good thing, depending on your point of view.
Joining this party late. I did read this thread and I did not see any comments on electrical grounds. If your body grounds are poor the current will find another path. For instance when you turn on your lights or other items with heavy electric current use.... if the grounds that support those items are poor the current will find another path. When this happens it draws current from the circuit that has the better ground. (maybe your ignition circuit). Do you tests again with "new ground wires to your lights and body. Might surprise you....I have seen this before :2thumbs:
Thanks plain. Yup grounds are important, I'm going to tackle it this weekend stand by for up date!
OK, this weekend I replaced the rear harness and the Fusible link (which actually was pretty messed up) no changes :RantExplode:
A few of you guys have made credible suggestions that I've yet to act upon, sorry about that...all my idea's aren't working so time to try yours one-by-one :brickwall:
I would definitely start with the battery. For the second time now I have been fooled into thinking that a seemingly working battery may actual be the cause of a lot of electrical gremlins. The second time was only yesterday.
If yours is good it's good but it doesn't hurt to test it out or try another like you said.
It seems that it hardly matters what you activate, the result is he same so it doesn't seem to be a switch. What are the odds that light, brake, and wiper switch are all bad?
Ground can be a culprit so grab a bunch of test leads and make some temporary grounds. If the issue is resolved then you can narrow it down.
Have you checked the fuse box? An issue there can certainly cause something like this to happen. Check it for wear as well as the power wires and check the main splice. Have you tried measuring voltage at the fuses while someone turns on the lights for instance just to see if it is stable?
Have you done anything to the cluster lately? Are he circuit board pins soldered to the board? This may be the time to do those little things, upgrade to a solid state voltage limiter if you haven't done so and consider upgrading the charging system. I didn't try to hide my upgrades but it can be done without being too obvious if you want it so.
Besides lights, brakes, and wipers, what else makes the car die when switched on?
Hi Dino
I'm done throwing parts at it for a bit and will just trouble shoot.
As far as what else causes it to die the above it it, but i don't think there's any other electric stuff left to turn on?
Well vacation this weekend, I'll look at it again next weekend
:eek2:
just read through your thread. sound like my issues after i had my engine rebuilt a few years ago. 318 with some internal upgrades but had to pass smog test. so the 318 got a bigger cam up to 214/224 and some headwork done along with 4bbl. after installing new motor idles 800 in nuetral drops to 450-500 in gear. dodges dont like low rpms and electrical draw. i searched as you are looking for a short. found many wires and connectors i thought were the culprit all the while arguing with engine builder and carb shop about what causes that kind of rpm drop. 4 years later when i blew the tranny it turns out my 727 had big torque converter from a truck or something in it. rebuilt the tranny and put in a mopar hipo converter stalls 1800-2300. fixed the rpm drop. idles 850. drops to 700 in gear. no more electrical issues. hope this helps any
You said the car runs fine when cold. Does it have a stock choke that keeps the car at a faster idle during warm up ?
A couple ideas:
With a known good ,fully charged, battery in the car. Start the car and let it warm up.
(1) With the car idling jumper from the battery + to the headlight bright light connector at the lamp. All four high beam lamps should light This will put a 20 + amp load on the electrical system without going thru the inside of the car. What happens?
(2) With the car idling jumper from the battery + the ignition. Go in the car and turn on the headlights the normal way or any electric load that would cause the car to quit. What happens?
Thanks for the tip'74 Cali that would be a good direction to go but it's the same even after a Manual transmission swap
Flyin - I did the headlight mod so the headlights are completely powered by the alt via relays so I think this address's your suggestions, that is the power for the headlights does NOT go through the main harness/switch anymore.
Here we go...I'm going to go down the list in order till it's fixed, if you think of something I missed please let me know and I'll add it
- Headlight relay mod to bypass main harness
- New Alt
- New ECU
- Another New ECU
- Ballast resistor
- Check/clean all grounds
- Replace Voltage regulator
- Replace ignition Switch
- Replace rear light harness
- Replace Fuseable link
- Check Voltage at coil before/after issue
- Replace Battery
- Bypass Alt gage and run both wires to one stud
- Recheck Alternator wires for broken strands
- Hot wire ignition to test "out of the loop"
- Pull test/inspect all wires
- Check wires with laser temp reader
- Voltage measurements
- Replace Alt with Denso unit
I'm still wanting voltage readings at the coil to see if your getting a drop that stalls the car? A before-during-after kinda check. Heck at this point we could be looking at a resistor that needs 10 minutes of run time to get hot enough to be too resistive? (Heat=resistance electrically.) :scratchchin:
Did you do a tug test on both sides of the wires for bulkhead dash feed and ignition circuits? (Even that is subject to inspection...one part of the crimp holds the conductor and the other part holds the insulator jacket.) I'm thinking of having you run some temporary jumpers here and there like Nacho has suggested just to isolate the issue.
I'd be BATTY by NOW! Hang in there! :2thumbs:
Just read through this again and again, ?
Even though you will have done bypass shortly, sorry it's one of the main culprits on these cars , yes check and redo all earths , check that it has none missing , rear of engine to firewall , ? Steering column earth , and check all earths in harness , there's a few
Your problem is a resistance build up in bulk head plug and old engine bay wiring , read all your ignition wires go through this plug , re check all connectors in bulk head , clean , crimp , these should be tight, look up the seals hat should be on here, die electric grease is a must ,
Either order new harness for engine bay, or re work your old one one wire at a time , I would be doing it this way just because I would like to find the culprit,
I had a car do similar to me recently,
Turned out it was the battery lead , joint half way under cover, badly soldered joint by Chinese manufacturer, WTF in in a new lead
Ugh just replace that 40+ year old wiring and stop pounding your head against the wall...
- Blue I changed out voltage check to swapping the coil...my bad That will be next thing I try (list adjusted)
- 469 I'm cleaning checking every ground I come across..but I agree those seem likely. Only parts of the harness now that aren't new is on engine side
- Myk like I told 469 only parts of the harness that aren't new are on the engine bay...we're swappin' 'em out 1 by 1 but my guess is It's not a wire...we'll see 'cause this IS getting fixed this time
...Or I'll have a Killer deal for someone on a '70 4 speed B/O Charger :eek2:
Right we are assuming the coil is crapping out to stall but do not know yet. (Or if so why?) It's the "after about 10 minutes of running" part that bugs me....
I've had coils do exactly that, crap out once they warm up and working again when cold.
OK knocked two more things off the list:
- Coil voltage 5.25-5.35 while normal idle and when lights are flicked on drops to 3.45-3.49 till it dies. Not sure what that tells us?
- Installed battery out of the '72, it's 3 months old, no real difference, same thing
In related news:
-- The low beams aren't working now...high beams are fine
-- Fuse blew for instrument lights
-- I really think a big clue is my stereo cutting out. When I switch on items like heater/wipers/washer the car is unaffected AND the stereo is unaffected. BUT anything that effects car like break lights headlights the stereo will cut out. It's wired into the original radio harness.
Next - Crawl under dash, inspect all wires and grounds, replace that instrument fuse and put alt wires on one post...stand by
Here's a video I made so you can see what's up. I could have let the car die but gave it some gas to keep it running...at least it sounds pretty good :-)
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p201/AKcharger_photos/70%20Charger/th_20140803_1028181_zps821e0157.mp4) (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p201/AKcharger_photos/70%20Charger/20140803_1028181_zps821e0157.mp4)
Your ALT gauge drops to drawing off the battery big time? How is the HL mod done?
Well I think the draw at idle is somewhat normal with low RPMS...at least that's what I thought :shruggy:
The Headlight mod, in a nut shell, Runs power from the ALT directly over to headlights bypassing the main harness. The headlight switch controls relays that in turn control the power. Idea is it keeps all that current flow from going in/out the small wires in the dash
Okay I'm assuming the red wire from the bat. to alt. is the normal exciter circuit? (Stock Alt/wiring.) Your volts are dropping like a rock when that needle swings into the left. Will this stall occur above idle?
No, any RPM above idle and there's no symptoms at all...except the radio cutting off
Okay for many years my ALT gauge did something similar, the engine didn't stall but but with the headlights on anything else and the gauge dropped to the left. Blower fan wipers everything at idle ether dimmed or slowed down, the more things on the worse it got.
My friends Lynn and Steve both own battery and alt./starter shops and spent some time trying to solve what I came to call "lazy idle alt. output". There was no cheap/easy fix. I thoroughly cleaned and went over every connection, raising the idle as much as was tolerable. Getting the vacuum advance working and switching to Firecore wires helped make idle stronger but nothing fixed that low idle alt. output. One thing Steve and I considered was the standard alt test, putting it on a tester machine can't reproduce idle speed for an output test "at idle". (There is no easy way to know the RPM's of the alt. to the RPM's of the engine as a ratio.)
A few years back I ended up doing the Denso 120 amp conversion as there were really no other options to get +40 amps at idle. (That retain stock wiring the way Mopar did it in 70.) Now it looks like there are many improved systems that don't even need the brackets changed like the Denso did. :2thumbs: The radio clipping may just be the volts dropping momentarily to a point that effects the operation.
OK, I don't want to get too excited but I think I found the problem!!!!! at least for the moment all symptoms are gone, the most telling is the radio, no cut out at all when any lights are turned on. Woo Hoo!!!!!!! :boogie: :boogie: :boogie:
- Headlight relay mod to bypass main harness
- New Alt
- New ECU
- Another New ECU
- Ballast resistor
- Check/clean all grounds
- Replace Voltage regulator
- Replace ignition Switch
- Replace rear light harness
- Replace Fuseable link
- Check Voltage at coil before/after issue
- Replace Battery
- Bypass Alt gage and run both wires to one stud Ding Ding Ding Ding!!!!!!!!
- Recheck Alternator wires for broken strands
- Hot wire ignition to test "out of the loop"
- Pull test/inspect all wires
- Check wires with laser temp reader
- Voltage measurements
- Replace Alt with Denso unit
:2thumbs:
:popcrn: For now, hope it's a :cheers:
New ALT gauge time? :scratchchin:
Yup, don't like the idea of it being inop. :yesnod:
Convert that troublesome gauge to a voltmeter and save yourself more troubles in the future. I never chimed in since all the comment's on here had pretty much covered all my suggestions. I just had the voltmeter conversion done on my charger and I feel alot better about it now!!!
I've heard the voltmeter conversion talked about but Don't know anything about it. I guess that's a possibility
Quote from: AKcharger on September 22, 2014, 08:17:34 AM
Yup, don't like the idea of it being inop. :yesnod:
I like the ALT gauge myself, have a new OER brand one to install when I redo inst. cluster. OER is rated @ 60AMP, perfect for my needs. I also have an 8GA. stereo amplifier feed kit to turn into a "Fleet modification" charging upgrade. As the Denso has a Max. idle output of 60AMP everything will be rated just fine.
Quote from: AKcharger on September 22, 2014, 04:09:53 PM
I've heard the voltmeter conversion talked about but Don't know anything about it. I guess that's a possibility
Look up my diy voltmeter thread. You'll have it done for $30 or less. The thread contains a few gauge decal templates. Just take the design of your choice to a local printer like Kinko's and have them print it in true black on decal paper. Works great and looks stock.
Impressive! I'd like to find an old gauge to do the MOD on and then install at once
For those of you interested...
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,108698.100.html
I had saved up the cash and sent mine out to redline gaugeworks for the conversion. It runs about $200 bucks for the conversion. I bolted the two hot wires together that went to the amp gauge and tapped them up good with electrical tape and that was it. The cluster goes in alot easier when you don't have to hook up the amp gauge anymore. Wish I was more talented like dino with this kinda stuff but usually it's better for me to sub it out!!
Volt conversion complete, and still no problems. Can't believe I went that long with that alt gage, the car could have caught fire!!
This should be the first thing done to any charger with the ammeter still wired in.. bypass it!
(please no hate replies from the purists)
:iagree: I was completely ignorant of that gage being such a threat!