I am replacing the dash harness wiring and fuse block on my 73' Charger Rallye. After inspection I find that the previous owner by passed the 12+ from the fuse block & ran it from the starter relay to the dash cluster amp meter 12+ ! WTF ! :shruggy: :shruggy: At least they used a fuse-able link !
Owned my Charger 15+ years and can't believe I never noticed this
I am going to try and fix the connector and prongs on the headlight harness plug since the wires are nice.
Questions are where can I find the long fuse-able link wire that runs from the relay to the battery & the wire with the plug that goes to the starter? I tried E-Bay & no luck.
Nacho...this is a wiring disaster ! :eek2:
Make one yourself. get a section from a NAPA store and solder an extension to it.
I told you, it was time to check it! You were having several issues. You got the tipical Mopar failure at Red and Black charging wires at bulkhead, so, don't worry at all
Fortunatelly all those parts are available now. No need to get a new full harness and even it could look like a mess, this tuff used to be easy to fix.
I'm right now in bed yet, so when I leave my laziness back ( LOL ) and will check further on this.
OK... checking.
First, what do you want to do? restore or just fix ? Restore and upgrade ?
The initial configuration of that wiring would be this:
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33574.0;attach=53325;image)
where the fue link is between starter relay and bulkhead conector, not running to battery. Why ? because running to batt the fuse link will be also feeding the starter motor solenoid ( not the motor, just the solenoid ), while between starter relay and bulkhead saves any load destinated to starter motor. That's the correct setup.
next... if you want just to fix keeping what you still have there what I would do?
-cut and isolate the red and black wires on cab side of bulkhead
-remove the red wire eyelet terminal from amm stud and isolate ( keep the black one in place )
-run a new black wire throught the firewall with a grommet ( 8 gauge ) between alternator and ammeter. dDespite the existant 12 gauge one on engine harness.
-run a new red wire between amm stud and engine bay side throught the same grommet ( 10 gauge ), and attach to it to a new fuse link, ( 14 gauge ), then to the starter relay.
- if the wire between starter relay and batt needs to be replace just get a new wire ( 10 gauge ) andcall it done.
if you get a source to replace the starter motor-Batt harness, the starter relay-batt wire should be included, so no need to replace it separatelly
next option... the same but using the existant black wire arriving to back of bulkhead to feed back the ammeter stud back. This will reinforce the load coming from alt in a 8 gauge wire to feed both sides of the main splice. Amm is getting 8 gauge but main plice is still running into a 12 gauge. So using both side of the wires between ammeter and bulkhead to feed the splice, will get better capacity to feed the splice and all around. Of course will need to splice a wire on bulhead side to reach the ammeter stud.
but this will be my favourite one which I think will be the one I will apply my on my car when reassembling... mostly due versatility to plug and unplug like factory did.
this would apply into a RESTORE AND UPGRADE option
-fix the stock alt 12 wire to bulkhead with a new terminal on bulkhead end
-run a parallel wire between alt and amm in 10 gauge wire. Since the stock one will keep in use, no need for 8 gauge on this
-use a quick disconect link ( AKA trailer plug or something like that ) 10 gauge.
-Do the same for the red wire as previous options included the fuse link
of course this will need to replace bulkhead and bulkhead plug for engine harness. Headlight harness can be still the same.
This setup will feed both sides of main splice on undedash harness
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33574.0;attach=301165;image)
Quick disconect links are available on several lenghts and sizes... you can get a 2 feet loop ( I guess 2 feet should be enough, I think thats the one I bought too ) and 10 gauge configuration. Cut a small pigtail section to splice into the engine side wires and the long pigtail to reach straight to the ammeter stud with no splices.
(http://www.walcottradio.com/images/TP10.jpg)
and new bulkheads are available around into $80 rate:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/FMAAAOSw4shX7VyU/s-l400.jpg)
Packard 56 terminals can be found in bulks cheaper at electronic suppliers than any auto restorer shop, maybe in fact from the same supplier you can get the quick disconect link. You would need really just one male for the alt wire on engine harness plug and a female for the ammeter wire at the bulkhead side. Get some more for spares just in case.
New engine harness plug is also available in $15 rate. On pic seems to be in good condition, but must be burnt on the black wire location just like the bulkhead is.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GZsAAOSwi-Beh5~p/s-l500.jpg)
Headlight harness plug is also available but I don't think you need it if you just run the extra red wire out of the bulkhead. The rest of plug on pic looks in really good conditions.
PAY ATTENTION TO THE WIRE ARRIVING TO STARTER RELAY... it seems the cover burnt or peeled off. Originally is yellow and runs straight from ign switch ( through bulkhead of course )
when replacing bulkheads and conectors, you can clean terminals with degreaser and toothbrush, then sink them into vinegar with a bit of salt for 4 or 5 hours. That will clean from any sulfated and rusted suface, then clean it with backing soda to beat the rest of acids from the vinegar.
for more, check the stickied thread you should already now
OH... and time to check ammeter too.
Unless the underdash harness is all hacked up, I don't think you'll need a new underdash harness in place just to fix those spots. No need to spend $500-600 when with $100 can be done and already upgraded at the same time.
aside this, I'm noticing you have 3 wires arriving to the starter relay stud where it should be just 2... fuse link and battery wire.
Quote from: Kern Dog on April 04, 2020, 10:52:00 PM
Make one yourself. get a section from a NAPA store and solder an extension to it.
I will do that. Thank you man ! :cheers:
Quote from: Nacho-RT74 on April 05, 2020, 09:06:26 AM
OH... and time to check ammeter too.
Unless the underdash harness is all hacked up, I don't think you'll need a new underdash harness in place just to fix those spots. No need to spend $500-600 when with $100 can be done and already upgraded at the same time.
aside this, I'm noticing you have 3 wires arriving to the starter relay stud where it should be just 2... fuse link and battery wire.
Nacho...I thank you so very much. I do have a different under dash harness with different fuse block. Wait until you see these pics of the wire going to the gauge ! So lucky my gauge cluster did not burn up. Also I now know why my ignition did not want to work...look at those wires !!!!
So, I have a hard time reading and learning, sometimes I have to hear it in person and see it so follow me here Nacho. I can't thank you enough once again man.
1. To keep original plug and play:
Replace the under dash harness with fuse block as I already will. I did replace the ignition, cylinder & turn signal switch.
Then I should replace the headlight harness plug with new wire connector as well. Then replace wire that goes from starter relay. Now with or without fuse able link?
2. To fix and upgrade with doing the amp meter Mopar issue also:
Do all as above except buy a quick disconnect wire with both connect ends and use the + end and run it directly to the amp meter gauge from alternator post and not use stock + wire from under dash harness?
I think I can pull this off !
Nacho...I just went back and read over all the steps....starting to make more sense now....
Does this piece need to be tight where the connectors connect? The connectors are on nice just a little play on what they connect to.
Quote from: Nacho-RT74 on April 05, 2020, 08:22:06 AM
next... if you want just to fix keeping what you still have there what I would do?
-cut and isolate the red and black wires on cab side of bulkhead
-remove the red wire eyelet terminal from amm stud and isolate ( keep the black one in place )
-run a new black wire throught the firewall with a grommet ( 8 gauge ) between alternator and ammeter. dDespite the existant 12 gauge one on engine harness.
-run a new red wire between amm stud and engine bay side throught the same grommet ( 10 gauge ), and attach to it to a new fuse link, ( 14 gauge ), then to the starter relay.
- if the wire between starter relay and batt needs to be replace just get a new wire ( 10 gauge ) andcall it done.
if you get a source to replace the starter motor-Batt harness, the starter relay-batt wire should be included, so no need to replace it separately
Nacho....this looks like exactly what the previous owner did except the wires melted ! So that could work it is just there was an issue as well somewhere in that under dash harness
Quote from: BMOTOXSTAR on April 07, 2020, 01:37:28 PM
Nacho...I just went back and read over all the steps....starting to make more sense now....
Does this piece need to be tight where the connectors connect? The connectors are on nice just a little play on what they connect to.
willl do reply by reply
yes, thats the brake light pedal switch... it uses to get a little bit of play from side to side, don't worry
looking at those pics:
-The black wire to ammeter is REALLY ugly!! I would untape the underdash harness to check it. Some wires around could get their cover a bit melted too and some of those wires drives negative signals. That wire will take you to the main splice, then to bulkhead wire
-the ign switch plug on harness... How bad is the white plug insulator ? from the distance doesn't look really bad. Terminals can be bought and replaced if you want,. Is just about cut some of the wires and use new terminals. Insert them on the plastic plug. That plug is not easy to be found but terminals are.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/50pcs-Male-093-093-Terminal-Contact-Pins-Pin-For-Molex-Power-Socket-Connector/251749092357?hash=item3a9d6a4c05:g:ZngAAOSwGzlTs8wY
HOWEVER the ones without the cover ( two blacks ) are the ones for the Ign key sensor for the warning buzzer which are the smaller size. Those wires handle ground anyway, BUT they are really close to the red wire which comes from charging circuit, driving positive. And both are exposed
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100PCS-LOT-MOLEX-02-06-2103-C-0-062-MALE-CRIMP-TERMINAL-BRS-TIN-SEALED/274085857834?hash=item3fd0ca4a2a:g:iowAAOSwRixdw74I
( the links are just an example of which are, maybe any local supplier could have it )
-If you are running a red wire out of the bulkhead, IMHO won't need to replace the headlights harness plug. From the distance it looks nice except for the red wire cavity a bit melted, which if you don't use IF as mentioned bypass the bulkhead for red and black wires. Yes Red wire will still require the fuse link from ammeter up to starter relay... not from starter relay up to batt
Try to untape the underdash harness between ammeter wires and bulkhead to check what do you find then decide from that. Don't worry about tape it back, its really easy to do.
Don't be afraid, they are wires, not snakes, won't bite you LOL
since cluster is out, remove front bezel, then the ammeter... Althought it looks still nice from the distance, but just in case. Is just about check the tighteness of the studs to the gauge internally and the internal isolation sheet ( one just like the black one you see on back of the housing at amm studs ). We need to prevent this:
(https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/attachments/20170915_203806-jpg.515322/)
where it should look like this:
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0021/6629/2533/products/57_0dd13567-7173-425a-a9c0-e56455d93a43_1024x1024@2x.jpg?v=1571721624)
and studs still tight to the metallic shunt inside
Nacho,
Thank you for the links for the parts. I am going to order soon. For headlight harness plug.
I am using a complete replacement under dash harness and fuse block. So all that wiring will be re-placed.
Only major problem is the headlight harness plug now.
So, I am going to check the cluster amm meter to make sure it is tight as you said.
Nacho,
So, I could to use what I have now is...
A: Keep & fix all current (fuse block, under dash harness, headlight harness) run power wire with fuse-able link from starter relay to dash cluster amp meter. Do not use the + connection from under dash harness.
B: Use the new bulkhead/fuse block I have & repair the headlight harness. Factory set up with main power coming from under dash harness to AMP meter.
Thanks Nacho...
Nacho,
Starter relay should have : 1 wire from relay to battery with fuse-able link, 1 wire to N Safety, 1 wire to starter relay (no Fuse-able link), then last 1 wire from engine side bulk head plug (no fuse-able link) to relay?
Thanks man !
Quote from: BMOTOXSTAR on April 08, 2020, 05:43:58 PM
I am using a complete replacement under dash harness and fuse block. So all that wiring will be re-placed.
just noticed you posted a picture of that one!
Quote from: BMOTOXSTAR on April 09, 2020, 10:48:02 PM
Nacho,
Starter relay should have : 1 wire from relay to battery with fuse-able link, 1 wire to N Safety, 1 wire to starter relay (no Fuse-able link), then last 1 wire from engine side bulk head plug (no fuse-able link) to relay?
Thanks man !
Nacho,
Where do theses wires go on the bulkhead harness plug
Thank you man.
sorry it took so long but I was banned from the board.
hell I dunno where it goes! whats the color ? green with red trace ? that's horn. wire is same color on back of bulkhead but:
(https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94138766_10157409295898753_6245342147323625472_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=1480c5&_nc_ohc=x1VneShc_WEAX_PzT72&_nc_ht=scontent-mad1-1.xx&oh=192662e15558676f3d4e6f84a7a6c57f&oe=5EC6F336)
(https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93781426_10157409337203753_7701941517912375296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=1480c5&_nc_ohc=0ADofKbbtaYAX83DL6R&_nc_ht=scontent-mad1-1.xx&oh=55145c3539c2e00ad28fb8beb04ab447&oe=5EC43E51)
(https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/94016335_10157409322608753_2817843152876994560_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=1480c5&_nc_ohc=A1THe4c_v50AX81Ty6v&_nc_ht=scontent-mad1-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=5186ba9b3df3d820a5c0e14888d406cf&oe=5EC4264D)
Why the would they ban you man ? You are the #1 guy on here ! :2thumbs:
Without your help I could have never done this ! I have the new harness in...I just need to put cluster back in and steering wheel.
And fix those wires one engine side. Hope she starts this weekend !
Do you have the diagram for where harness plugs go for the back of Rallye Clutser with Tach? I forgot to take a pic of the back ! All those bulbs !
Nacho, confused on this...
Fusible link is 12ga or 14 ga. I am soldering into 10ga. It seems weird but this is correct?
fuse link recomended size must be 2 steps lower than the wire you are attaching. but why solder it ? better with terminal for easy replacement. So for 10 gauge wire, 14 fuse link
bulbs setup is pretty much straight up. Orange pigtails are usually made to reach the exact location must be, and indicator lights are labeled ( tan, green, red ). Except the brakes one which is one of a kind plastic socket.
gauges wires colors are also labeled on back of cluster. One of the diagrams above gets the info. make a zoom in.
but here a close up of tach and clock setup
Nacho,
Thanks man !
I was just about to start...so use the butt connector crimp & no solder?
oh well, solder it with the connector, but not red wire straight with fuse link. sure a straight splice is better, but when fuse link is gone, will be hard to service and the best is get the best of both worlds... good conection and "serviceablity"
Soldering is a real art ! Sticking with the butt connector & shrink tubing. Not that many pieces to splice & I have plenty of wire and fuse-links in the tool box now !
Nacho, I would be lost on this without your help & diagrams. Thank you mane ! :cheers:
If there was a joint smoking emoji I would post that also ! :coolgleamA:
factory never soldered the wires and terminals, just crimped, but sure factory tools and skills are better than any ppl who doesn't use to deal with this stuff, so soldering is an extra safety point to be sure wire won't leave the terminal accidentally and assure a better contact.
Great thread. Im doing the same mod now when installing new wiring/gauges in my car.
One thing I made to make the ammeter more secure was to add a fiber board (used for printed circuit boards) both on the inside of the housing and a large piece on the outside, I also put shrink tubing on the studs where they pass through the gauge housing.
(I checked and the Am-meter needle still has about 1.5mm of space in front to move around freely.)
cool! :thumbs:
Thanks for posting this cup Nacho! I know it takes some work. You are the man - saved them for future reference :cheers:
It's a pleasure
Some of the diagrams I made are already posted and explained on the stickied thread about charging system upgrade
Nacho...I get her all back together and this...turn the key and no power to starter solenoid. Does start when jumped at relay, as usual. Turns off when key is turned off. AMP reads towards "D".
Looks like this aftermarket ignition swatch is missing 2 wires than the original?
Man this is frustrating....and the Brake light stays on and the fluid, etc are good. :brickwall: :brickwall:
Nacho...what do you advise?
The two wires missed are the red ones from ign switch sensor to warning buzzer. They connect with the two thin wires on underdash harness plug. In no particular order.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/4JMAAOSwighZk1vj/s-l640.jpg)
Remove the thin black wire from the new ign switch harness which is meeting with the orange at underdash harness. As far I know thats a ground signal used on some laters cars ( for whatever reason I still don't know ). If that's true you could short out the cluster dimmer circuit ( orange wire ) when you turn on lights. Nothing really dangerous, but just will get a fuse blowing up. The orange wire is there just to feed the shifter gear indicator on steering column cars. Floor shifter cars doesn't get a wire there into the ign switch and orange line just ends there
About the fail... have you checked if bulkhead wiring dispositon meets with your engine bay side harnesses? Are you sure the underdahs harness is 73? Along 71/74 some wires where turned around.
Brake light... I guess you mean the brake light on cluster. That light turns on when emergency brake is activated or you have a pressure failure on brakes system. Sensor is on brake fluid distributor. Both drives negative. It could be any or both wires shorted to ground... or simply working and its indicating the emergency brake is applied or you have some brake fluid pressure failure LOL.
On my car I had the brakes dist block damaged and that kept on the brake light on cluster.
OOOOR also related to a wires turned around on bulkhead ( if is not 73 harness ). 72 and 73 are pretty much the same harness except for some extra accesories feeds and the headlight concelead light trigger provision, both on 72 harnesses. I think the driver door jam switch setup changes. But still some wires could be turned around on bulkhead.
71 and 74 underdash harnesses are way diff monsters between them and with 72/73
Nacho,
I am for sure it is 73' Harness, all plugs and wires matched up perfect and the vacuum lines for the AC were right on as well.
I do have a small brake leak due to a master cylinder I need to fix next.
So, take that black wire off the new ignition switch and make sure engine side to bulkhead are plugged in correct...
Thank you Nacho.
Hope the next post is that she started !
So I have checked all connections at bulkhead. All Good.
No power on volt meter to starter relay on the starter selonid tab. All other contacts on starter relay have power when key is in start / run position.
So I figure next step is starter relay since no power to starter from relay and or ignition switch?
I took the black extra wire of that you said on the ignition switch harness end.
if you are getting power on yellow wire trying to crank problem is either relay or ground from NSS at transmission. You can ground the G terminal on relay to check if cranks up. If does, problem is related to NSS or harness.
I like that color wire diagram...was playing with my dash last week
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81zFKWl8c4L._SL1400_.jpg)
LOL
The color diagram works for 72, except for some details.
A good album by GN'R btw ! :cheers:
As you said, I went and doubled checked the engine side bulk head. I find this....wow....this explains it.
ALT ground wire on engine harness...so the ignition switch will not ground either & I am lucky I did not burn this new bulkhead....I did not run the thicker ground only the AMP+ upgrade.
Nacho, this would also cause the gauges , oil pressure, fuel, etc not to work due to the fried ground?
If you meant the black thick wire coming out from alt... is not ground but positive. The alt feeds ground throught the chassis, and gets a negative regulated field straight from regulator on the green wire. Ammeter gets positive on both sides, but senses the electrons magnetic field sense coming and going. They are labeled as red and black just to be sure you'll get a correct reading and not reversed on the way the load goes and comes from/to batt/alt.
What you show is the tipical bulkhead alternator melt due the excess of load on alternator wire and terminals caused by the poor charge capacity at iddle which makes to give back the load to the batt for loooong time periods ( and high load peaks )when reving up the engine, hence the reason to upgrade alternator first for a better average load source, then the paths.
About the wires on harness. Who knows which wires are affected around and could cause misterious failures.
However still without that wire, the engine should crank and everthing should work but with a discharge reading on ammeter. If the ammeter is conected, the batt will source the ign switch then the starter relay. Of course that wire hanging around and without cover is dangerous because if regulator and alt fields are connected, with engine on that wire will be hot from alt.
Check that wire from end to end. Yes, you'll need to get it deeper into your wiring.
P.S.: I'm actually not a big fan of G'n'R LOL.
Replaced that wire and did more trouble shooting.
It was the NSS wire ! I did the ground on the relay and she starts Nacho !!! :2thumbs: :cheers:
The radio is not in so I can touch the termianls on the AMP Meter, nice and cold, no resistance.
Only 2 problems,
1. No cluster gauges work (oil, fuel,temp.) All cluster lights work,
2. Turn signals do not work on side markers. Blink on the cluster and fender and work on the taillights.
Nacho...I am almost there.....please advise.
-sidemarkers don't blink, they are just position lights for the cars around you. They turn on with front and rear parking lights. They can be made to blink with some wiring mods thought.
-Gauges not working...this is the dangerous ( to the pocket ) part LOL. All 3 gauges are feeded from voltage limiter. The voltage limiter works with a pulsating signal made with points inside, getting 12v positive ( in ACC and RUN ) throught a black wire straight to one of his backelite prongs, to feed with 5 volts to the gauges ( produced by this pulsating signal ) to the ouput to gauges. Bracket gets another black wire with a bigger terminal to not get confused with the positive one to reinforce the ground it gets through the chassis. Ground is REALLY important on the VL because if it doesn't get ground the points will remain closed allowing to pass the 12 volts and burn all the gauges.
since you don't have the Radio yet you still have access to the limiter. Check the correct conections ( diagrams shows how they must be wired ) to the VL
you could also check if gauges are still in working order. Any 5 volts DC source ( or close ) around will work to test if gauge needles move. You could use a cell phone charger, 2 1.5V batteries in series, or even a 9 volts battery but this could be dangerous if you don't remove it quick, because a 9 volts batt can burn gauges too if gauges are sourced for more than 2-3 seconds. This is to check JUST if gauges are live. Jus feed every stud of gauges with the batteries poles ( no matter which one where ) and needle should move.
you can check also the VL conditions with a test light OR analog multitester in DC. Feed 12V and ground and checking the output for this pulsating signal.
of course also check the positive source to the VL to check if is getting juice.
Yeah Nacho...they worked great until I did the wiring !
The limiter is the block on the back of the cluster with the prongs correct? I hope just the voltage regulator for the cluster blew out? :shruggy: :shruggy:
There was no smoke, just dead gauges.
Yes... that block with prongs.
No one of the parts involved will smoke. They just die, and done
Nacho, this is what the local parts store had and I have the other style that is on the OEM box pic.
How could there be 2 very different ones for that cluster?
Turns out that the cluster gauges are fine ! I did not have the + connector hooked up to the voltage limiter prong ! :pity:
Nacho many many thanks and an ice cold Tecate ! :cheers: :cheers:
I found a thread you did in 2015 on another forum, forbbodiesonly.
One last question...I lost the floor shifter indicator lights...is this into a port on the passenger side kick panel?
For the 30 years I have owned 3rd gens I never knew that about the side markers not blinking... Nacho...wow....
You are the man !
On 3rd gens there is a diff limiter between standard and rallye cluster. The first one is for standard cluster, second one for Rallye.
I'm on FBBO board too.
Yes, the console light wire gets two wire sections, one from driver side feed on dash harness ( bullet terminal ) up to passsenger kick panel ( spade packard terminal ) , and the next from there up to console.
Be sure you conect positive ( prong on bakelite ) and negative ( prong on bracket ) wires to the limiter please.
Having trouble finding the black/white trace with with connector for the extra ground. :brickwall:
If it was missing could I make one and ground to the chassis?
Many thanks man
shouldn't be hard to find...
yes you can make one to any screw around the dash frame BUT the terminal is wider, so is not the regular Packard 56 size. Is really specific for it. The original wire in fact runs to a phillips screw to a J nut attached to dash frame close to emergency brake handle with serrated eyelet terminal. This ground wire also spreads to some other places around ( which I can't rememeber right now LOL )
Is one of these on pic attached... so should be together with the positive one and ammeter ones. There is not a lot of single spade terminals around Rallye cluster, just those ( and Radio or tach, but those run appart from the underdash harness )
And this is the standard cluster rear view, reason why you get the diff VL on 71/74s
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/t7QAAOSwicJZtBo3/s-l1600.jpg)
Nacho,
The only other spade terminal with that size connector by the amp meter and bulbs has 2 black wires ? I attached to the ground since it fits and did not show any current in run or start with the volt meter and idles fine with all accessories on. Gauges work perfect. The ground under the dash by the brake release is attached.
Hope this is the correct one, has to be I hope... :icon_smile_blackeye:
Still cant figure out floor shifter light that worked before....
Nacho, 2 other questions....
1. Is the black wire (has +) on vol meter, go to the e-brake?
2. What is this extension for that goes to harness? For the column lights from driver side...?
Once again...thank you mane.
The black wire to VL ground ... prong on bracket is the wider so if it fits, that's it. No other plug/terminal will fit there because if is positive and you connect it will short out as soon you activate ign switch, so it was made like that wider prong to prevent a short. You can confirm it anyway just testing continuity with chassis. Yes, diagram shows a single wire with a trace I think, but I think that's not allways true LOL. Sometimes the splices are not exactly where its show. On diagram, but anywhere else where it coould be easier.
Yes, the bullet terminal wire is E brake. That is what could be lighting up your dash light being hanging around and getting in touch with chassis. Actually drives negative sourced by the switch on emergency brake bracket, but maybe can test positive with bulb in place and key in RUN? Don't worry, it won't short out. The short happens in bulb filament. Which is what the bulb is, a controled short.
That pigtail is for the lights on warning buzzer. The harness provides the slightly angled terminals plug to plug it there, while the 90* plug ( like flashers) goes to the buzzer.
Diagram shows HEADLAMP buzzer, but it actually activates with parking lights
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/1pvoJXuLt3kDidR7usg8rSddOSfjXyq1zRQP1AKOpug1MsWCZxxNwKumYAm0RBGwRLiWL-4XqJRqf4zLjxqVDe-IYMrjUJMEPbkQnMQ7MQskfbL6knONnWiw22wRo4McFsISg01SE_-kz55MYqpVz7rSPYY)
(https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/data/attachments/702/702287-834a2e5b16f0aa56b118d98697f1de72.jpg)
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/0QQAAMXQySpROr3D/s-l400.jpg)
Aaaaaand the light for shifter... it plugs on an orange feed ( number 1 on pic ) around AC-HEATER control switch area
(https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/attachments/20150118_011233_zpsd646d06c-1-jpg.919723/)
And the entire harness looks like this, running from side to side of dash having the packard plug extension on passenger side kick panel
(https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/attachments/new-console-floor-auto-shifter-light-70-71-72-73-74-cuda-challenger-jpg.919243/)
(https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/attachments/dimmer-source-and-wire-running-jpg.919734/)
(https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/attachments/dimmer-source-and-wire-running1-jpg.919735/)
Nacho... :punkrocka: :punkrocka: Thank you ! You have been awesome with helping me on this.
Now I have one last problem, the horns stay on ! I have the Grant Reproduction Tuff Wheel. I have the black wire connected. I just don't want to unplug them...Even with the center cap off the steering wheel the horn stays engaged.
I am almost ready to take a test drive after I figure out these horns...
Thank you for posting the seat belt buzzer locations, etc. My Charger is missing all the Seat Belt relays and warning buzzers. I hope to get them all working correctly and find the correct pieces.
Is it bad to drive with the NSS disconnected, ground on chassis from relay until I get a new NSS harness? Could I burn any wiring?
relays and buzzers are available on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-seat-belt-or-low-fuel-relay-for-1972-1973-Charger-Road-Runner-Challenger-et/143571735305?epid=1223811288&hash=item216d8ad309:g:R2oAAOSwOoVeh4mX
that's the cheaper one ( including shipping ) I found right now but there are several:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mopar+seatbelt+relay&_sacat=0&_sop=15
and buzzer
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Mopar-1972-1973-Plymouth-Dodge-Chrysler-All-Seat-Belt-Warning-Buzzer-Switch/233338659029?epid=1037537883&hash=item36541160d5:g:8mQAAOSwk5FUxZgY
but the buzzer is pretty much generic piece for several brand cars ( Chebbbbby, Phords, AMCs... ) so maybe searching for another brand could be cheaper? dunno. Maybe at parts shops.
I have couple of those and couple of lights on buzzers ( not for B body, but except for the bracket shape they are all the same between 71/73 ), but they are at home in Vzla.
unplug turning switch to check if horn turns off... that would mean the problem is inside the column. It could be from the wire being smashed into the column by the brackets ( it happened me once with the key in buzzer switch ) and being grounded, up to some fail at horn switch assembly or turning switch stud for this function
Where do you have the NSS harness disconected ? just at starter relay or at Tranny ?
if you have it disconected at Tranny, you won't have Back up lamps either. If you have disconected at Starter relay, you simply will be able to crank up the engine at any gear. Not safe but won't hurt anything on car... except if you have a wall in front and try to start the engine in D LOL
Are you sure is the harness what is damaged and not the NSS itself ? or some linkage adjustment ?
since I have been bored enough and I don't have life... I kept searching and found this
https://www.carid.com/lectric-limited/ignition-key-warning-buzzer-mpn-sbb7273.html
so it seems the original "Mopar" one is not so expensive
Thank you Nacho. Yeah I am just hammering away at this electric. Has taken me a month but I am almost there with your help man.
I hope in a few hrs I have the horn & console light figured out.
New NSS in transmission. The plug on the NSS looks a little cooked & I have no back up lights.
NSS grounded at relay to brake master cylinder , not connected at relay, only jumper -
Nacho my man....you are amazing ! She has never ran better in the 15 years I have owned her.
Amazing what correct electrical current can do !
I could not have done this without your help man.
Did a 60 mile ride in the desert at sunset with the lights on and accessories....not a single issue ! :2thumbs:
Nacho, this Tecate is for you ! This is what we drink here in the desert . :cheers: :cheers:
:cheers:
Great everything came out great and you got satisfied!. Electricity gets the same importance than Fuel. If one of both fails you won't have fire into the hole. So I don't understand why everybody keeps making continuous patchs on the electrical systems, speciall after 40-50 years. While everybody have serviced their carburetor maybe 3 or 4 times on these 40 years ( maybe more ), the electricity never is checked and ever worst, is cut, spliced, patched!
dunno if you upgraded your alt or if still the stock one, but that will be the next upgrade your car will require, and will be even HAPPIER... you don't need to spend big money on them but just if you just want a resto upgraded piece. Personally I dream with the 100 amps tuff stuff 8509DP but I can spend $180-200 on an alt right now ( 130 amps are available now ). For a while I'm living with the stock 80s alts ( 78 amps ) which is still somehow stock look and able to feed around 40-45 while iddling with the small pulley. Their price uses to be on $60-80 rate.My goal is get an alt able to source around 60 amps iddling and the 100 amps tuff stuff is as far I recall over that. Stock 80s alt is couple of milimeters wider so for big block need to trim a bit the rear alt spacer and get a bit longer belt ( rear of alt meets the block on the BB setup ).
OF COURSE... help the charging wiring with parallel paths to keep healthy the bulkhead and happier the battery.
mmm here is one dirty cheap... just change the pulley and done
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-1986-Chrysler-Dodge-Plymouth-L-body-K-body-Mopar-1-7-2-2-78-amp-Alternator/202989823073?hash=item2f4322e461:g:8A0AAOSwqS9eu~QF
( trusting the 78 on red tab is indicating the alt output )
I think this would be the pulley for it... It seems to be the small one
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-and-newer-Mopar-Dodge-Plymouth-Chrysler-Alternator-Pulley-2-Groove/124182960529?hash=item1ce9e19991:g:xNUAAOSwBIVdkUk0
Nacho, last night I took a 10 miles cruise on the city streets to the local car cruise in.
Ran great even though the night heat in AZ was 100 degrees out. Ran nice and cool in stop and and go traffic.
10 miles in the drive and the ALT meter goes straight to C again. :eek2: :eek2:
No resistance on the ALT meter terminals. The in line fuse I used as a precaution to the ALT meter with 20 AMP fuse was hot at the crimp connection. Fuse did not blow.
Car ran great with all accessories on the way home. Was hot out and did not overheat.
The engine bay does get very hot on this car. Could that cause the charging system to work extra harder ? I have a new alternator Nacho that I will post a pic of.
The battery is staying at 13. 13.5 volts running and has solid 13-14 after shut off.
No lights were dimming, ran smooth etc. Just that ALT is pegged again !
Nacho, you may hate this question....if I just do a under dash amp meter and bypass the ALT meter?
Just connect the modified ALT meter wire I made and connect to the other factory ALT wire that is still in use (other red one is isolated as you said to do since I did the mod) and + from amp meter to them and ground? :shruggy:
ok, let's see... maybe the ammeter is giving a reading due some problem, so maybe bypass the alt just will hide the real problem. That would mean the ammeter IS NOT the problem
I don't understand where you put the in line fuse. A 20 amps fuse in line with ammeter wiring is practically a joke ;)
do you have any accesory or upgrade ( such a headlight relays, fans or whatever ) sourced from batt terminal?
no grounds anywhere... ammeter doesn't work with ground just positive. Any related part to ammeter being grounded will cause a heavy short. The ammeter is juts a positive field bridge.
have you checked if the alternator brush to the green wire is being grounded ? the regulator sources negative/ground throught the green wire as the regulated field while the blue wire is constant positive from ign switch. I'm thinking on the green wire brush being grounded somehow, ALTHOUGHt that will relate more to voltage than amperage because you can't push in amperes if they are not being sucked in by some device, but could be something to check.
I thought the in line fuse would help with extra protection? Get rid of that ?
The problem could be in the main engine harness that connects with the alt? I re-checked all connections on bulhead from alternator?
Could that NSS wiring issue cause this? Thanks again man, hey at least she starts ! :P
No extra accessories at all. I did not even put the radio back in so I can reach up there to see ...
NSS has nothing to do with this
if you have the parallel path for the black wire won't have any problem still having some problem at bulkhead with the original black wire.
I'm thinking on just two stages. Regulator failing OR green wire ( or related brush ) being grounded. Grounding green wire &/or related brush will full field the alt providing max alt output without need for that. But I still can't find the ammeter reading full charge if batt is charged.
you could check connections between ammeter and battery too ( this includes starter relay stud, and battery end ) , just in case. Tight and clean
a 20 amps in line fuse on charging system where the ammeter is able to handle +/- 40 amps and where discharged batt alt can maybe source up to 60 amps ( part to the batt if discharged and part to the car to its functions ) is not really helpfull. But I don't know where you exactly installed that one.
Did all you just said...I found a crack in a wire from the headlight harness by the brake booster wire holder tabs. Put tape on just for diagnose.
Best to cut and crimp with butt connector or use a dab of that liquid plastic wire repair stuff?
I then plugged and unplugged the green ALT connector .
The ALT meter is now perfect again. Must have been the wire with the crack on headlight harness...or the green ALT wire with clip. The starter wires are nice.
I put the fuse between the ALT meter and firewall driver side for easy access (also the fuse link at relay as that should be).
Now I know why that the fuse holder is hot from resistance. :shruggy: :eek2:
No other wires are hot...only the wires on the in-line fuse connector & the fuse ! The but connections are cold. So are the alt meter studs, lucky for that.
Man Nacho....I think i get it now. Continuous + flow in the wires....
I will ditch the in line fuse and just straight from alt meter to relay with fuse link.
that wire on headlight harness shouldn't have anything to do with the charging system but better fix whatever you find. I guess is the cover what got cracked. liquid plastic should be enough as far copper inside is nice.
a fuse holder uses to be a weak point to hold a full load going throught.
I think everything is pointing out to the green wire or brush ( or brush holder assembly ) on alt.
Yes, the ammeter only handles +. Is just like a valved bridge to measure the electrons flow through it coming and going to/from batt. DC current is a constant electrons flow in one sense by the unbalance of the chemicals into the batt. The electron jumping to one side makes that side - charged atoms, while the place it left makes the particle + charged atoms. Thats what makes the + and - fields on DC. This was just an easy way to explain it.
While - field is going straight from alt to the batt via chassis, the + field is the one being measured. Electrons flow is proportional ( because same jumping electrons creating - field makes the + field ) so is enough and easier simply read the + lead which is the wired one. This electrons flow makes to move the needle initially balanced into a magnet system built into the ammeter. That's why in rest position, needle remains centered... with the counterweight into the magnetic field built into ammeter
The way you just explained it I finally understand ! :yesnod:
I took that in-line fuse out & just did the 10ga with fuse link from ALT meter to relay.
Starts and sounds great. The ALT meter is working great...just a tad towards D with all accessories on !
I am going to still check all wires on the engine harness by alternator.
You are awesome Nacho ! :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
I seriously can't thank you enough ! If you ever make it to Arizona !
I have being in Arizona in 2008 on my way to Carlisle from Bakersfield. I remember we stopped at Flagstaff, but can't recall where we stopped on the return trip. We took one interstate on the return trip but some road was closed for mantenience and had to go parallel to Colorado river up to another interstate.
Yes depending on the alt capacity with all accesories on is normal get a light discharge reading at iddlle. I guess when you give throttle after that it gets a small C reading for an instant untill get back to center again. Would be better the ammeter death centered as much as posible, but a small flickering is not dangerous. On my car with all lights on, Radio on, AC at mid speed still gets centered. Falls a bit into D stopped ( brakes on ) geared at a traffic lights. The bigger problem comes if rains since wipers sucks a lot too. Fortunatelly usually at nights, the low AC speed uses to be enough and that gives me a bit more reserve for the wipers ( acomplished with Transmission in N ). That's why I'm pointing out to a better capacity alt.
BTW, keep the chassis good grounded with batt also helps to the charging system! Meaning with this, radiator core support wire and provision nut, engine to batt wire, and the braidded wire between engine and firewall
BTW, it could be not the green wire but the brush where is plugged, so is about check wire AND brush assembly. The brush and holder assembly could be grounding somehow, maybe screw loosen, maybe holder cracked. If so, you got luck you plugged the green field there because if you plug the blue wire, could cause a short, while grounding green just causes a full field source. Will make a draw about this later.
Posible problems on brushes:
Holder screw shoulder broken. Then prong can move slightly and get in touch with screw grounding the brush.
Screw went throught the holder ( on the parallel to the prong brush one ) and can get in touch with brush spring, grounding it. This happened to me once with an alt which was using a "pointy" selftapping screw
cracked holder somewhere somehow.
don't worry about the brush moving a bit to the sides... pretty much normal.
The ALT is brand new. I put it in when I did the wiring. I will have them check it and get a replacement if bad.
I am still having trouble with the floor shift light. I checked the passenger side clip & no power. I can see the wire on the driver side where the power source is. Going to check the plug port it goes into on the driver side.
Thank you man !
Babies can born death too LOL.
Due some storaging, I have found brush holders can get cracked.
I'm not saying is a fact, but that's a chance. This is about track all where it comes the problem. Fortunatelly you have a more trustable wiring now down the dash
I am going to check the ALT brush holders like you said to.
The harness plug connectors on the ALT look like they had heat and are slightly melted.
Sine I already repaired the ALT wire going to bulkhead I just went ahead and ordered a re-pop engine harness complete on E-Bay.
Now I see there is 1 wire #20 on the AC harness that goes to the engine harness bulkhead side plug? :shruggy:
Also...do you know where I can find the front speaker plug that goes from speaker to the radio? It was cut and the radio works. AM, I just want to hook it up !
you can find a set like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Delphi-Metri-Pack-2-Conductor-Connector-Terminal/dp/B07BNB4RVX
or get juts the female or male end set
https://ceautoelectricsupply.com/individual-components/connectors-and-plugs/packard-connectors/
get some extra terminals just case the crimp job comes out bad
the wire must be blue ? thats for the compressor clutch ( actually runs to the presostatic valve at drier first, then to compressor ). On 71 the AC harness used the NSS plug cavities, but due the seatbelt warning system added needing the tranny ground signal on 72/73 ( actually 74s too but diff system ) The NSS plug got that ground wire, so the only cavities available were one on NSS and that one on engine. The NSS plug got the blower wire, green ( also for heater cars ), while the engine harness plug got the clutch.
Nacho,
I think I need the propper crimper for those (Packard) terminals. Just ordered the connector, many thanks.
When I did the ALT gauge I got lucky and did a good crimp with pliers. :D
If you know where I can find one...
Nacho, as you said, go through all the wires!
So now next I am going to have some NNS harness questions and A/C wire question....then I should be done with all the electrical except for the headlight harness which is good ! :2thumbs:
Well, going throught the wires will discard that problem and is an area normally forgotten. However I never said REPLACE ALL THE HARNESS LOL. That was up to you LOL! I think the ones you had could be fixed. It were just SOME of the wires and plugs not AALL the harnesses! I allways have fixed mine when is needed. Remove the tape, fix whatever fix is needed and then new tape.
However about engine harness, if you can't make one by yourself ( which is not hard really ) nothing like get a new fresh harness. The engine harness is the one what gets worst allong with the NSS due the heat and oil they allways are exposed.
Crimper? Dunno. I allways make it with pliers LOL. But also sold them. I guess any cheap one will make the job available at any hardware store. Sure is way easier and cleaner job with a crimper.
I have a very, very nice complete under the dash harness for a 73-74 B-body for 100.00
Mmmm actually 73 and 74 are completelly diff due the interlock system added on 74s
Well mine is a 73. The plug in to the firewall is still bright white. Not yellow and burnt looking. :cheers:
Sens me a pic of the harness...would be nice to have an extra since I plan on never getting rid of this Charger.
I did put a new one in already...extra may be nice to have.
Nacho, yes the ALT tab studs were loose. Tightened them and now gauge reads dead center or a little to C when all accessories are on. :shruggy:
The engine & NSS harness I ordered got put in another persons mailbox....what a mess !!!
Until I get these I should not have any more questions.
Oh yeah, wiring looks good for floor shifter light. Bulb should be under plate on console? :scratchchin:
a little to C ? mmmmm it shouldn't... more likely to D at iddle with acc and lights on... but let's wait how it works on next days.
this is the hole for the socket
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/OtsAAOSw5nZdUqfQ/s-l1600.jpg)
I'm able to make it on driver side of console sliding out to rear the bucket... sometimes the wire is visible. If you have thin fingers maybe you could do it. If not, removing the top plate should be enough, Still tricky but enough.
Bulb is #57
it could be even loosen from the shifter what makes not to be grounded so won't light on
Yeah Nacho, I installed the radio today AM, does not work. All plugged in correct.
I am having a problem with the ALT to bulkhead main black wire. The plug was so burnt that the new terminal was loose. It is now sung and the ALT gauge is just a little to D with lights and all accessories on. :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Waitng on that engine harness cause my plug was so bad & could not find one.... :eek2:
But with the parallel path shouldn't be a problem anymore. Most of the power should run on that path. So is weird that small variation made that reading change. Sure the loosen terminals makes resistance and that adds load, but still.
What accesories are you turning on aside the headlights?
Plug is available at megapartsusa.com and several other places.
https://www.megapartsusa.com/proddetail.php?prod=102-Q3
But you already bought the harness anyway.
Radio... did it work before ? Or it was just an ornament on dash? LOL. I know didn't have the plug but dunno if it worked ever since you have your charger. Have you tested the speaker? It can be tested with a 9 volts batt touchs and it should be able to heard "clunks" every time you feed it. You can also test the radio speaker output with ANY kind of speaker you have around.
I know somebody selling couple of AM radios on $75. If you care about that of course. My car was AM mono and changed to Multiplexer AM/FM Stereo, and made an adaptor to the DIN plug able to accept a 1/8" stereo mini plug for external audio devices ( soon to get the new repro version but the first ones without BT ). Venezuelan Chargers never got fender tags because aside color combos all were equipped the same so no need for fender tags.
Yeah Nacho, Megarats is where I got the harness. Thank you man. Ordering anotr plug just to have on deck in the tool box incase in 15 years I have to do this again ! :cheers:
Radio never worked, dash ornament fo sho ! Yeah all wires hooked up and plugged in,no power to radio. I am going to test the power coming out of harness plug and do the 9 volt speaker test. That is a good one for when I see used speakers at re-sale shops ! :Twocents:
I have always had 2, 6x9 ins in a box , a sub in the trunk and I do the radio aftermarket under the dash in one of those plastic under dash mounts.
Hope to one day get the retro fit modern like you have & do the AUX in splice as you did. I need USB also though !
the multiplexer Radio I made the conversion to the DIN plug is an original 71/74 one... I have not installed the newer retro repro yet. They get the aux in provision ready. Not USB thought, just analog. Newers are with the analog input and also BT.
( I won't tell to Megaparts guys you called them megaRATS LOL )
EMAIL SENT
Quote from: Nacho-RT74 on April 26, 2020, 01:30:32 PM
factory never soldered the wires and terminals, just crimped, but sure factory tools and skills are better than any ppl who doesn't use to deal with this stuff
That's because soldering wires in a car is a bad idea. Solder is relatively brittle, and where it wets into stranded wire, it turns it into a solid, brittle section of wire, which defeats the purpose of stranded wire (which is flexibility). A car environment has movement/vibration and extremes of temperature, which can eventually cause soldered wires to crack at the solder joint. Soldering is good for e.g., household plumbing and attaching components to printed circuit boards.
Quoteso soldering is an extra safety point to be sure wire won't leave the terminal accidentally and assure a better contact.
Adding solder to a proper crimp is superfluous at best, and counterproductive at worst (depending on how much solder you add, and where in the joint that you add it). A proper crimp is already stronger than the wire itself, i.e., it's flat-out impossible to pull the wire out of a proper crimp without breaking the wire, plus, it is airtight (because it forms a cold weld between the crimped terminal and the stranded wire), so it can't corrode within the crimp.
The problem is that a lot of people don't crimp properly. They use a poorly designed crimping tool, and/or there's a mismatch between the gauge of wire and the gauge of the terminal, and/or there's a mismatch between the type of terminal and the type of crimping tool. This ubiquitous tool is probably the biggest cause of bad crimps:
(https://i.imgur.com/omFKVrJ.jpg)
:iagree:
I got so lucky with that same Harbor Freight crimper... :icon_smile_blackeye:
At times it felt like I put all my weight into making it crimp properly. All my crimps are solid ! I did do shrink tube over the crimps. Probably not needed...
So glad I did not solder....
Thank you guys for the input.
Due to super slow shipping right now I have not been able to test drive again after repairing the engine harness.
I am waiting on a rubber gasket for my stock brake master cylinder. Leaks horrible from the gasket. Has to be reason my brake light is always on. Leaks from the top pof the gasket only...just a lot.
Thanks guys !
I allways have soldered and so far so good haven't got any problem with that yet. Sure I'm aware about the excess of lead will prone to break the wire specially to critical areas harnesses with movement and I don't have a good crimper.
About the brake light... the lid gasket has nothing to do with the brake light on cluster. You are having a leak AFTER the dist block, or even between MC pistons OR the differential piston into the dist block is leaking throught the circuits O rings. BTDT on last one.
My car ( same as many Mopars in Vzla ) was getting the light on and the big bowl on MC getting emptied while the small bowl overflowed. At the end found the brake fluid was being interchanged between front and rear circuits through the differential piston system into the dist block. That was making the differential piston to activate the light on cluster because the front brakes system gets more pressure than the rear and with that drainage throught the dist block the piston was been pushed.
(https://theamcpages.com/images/brakes/combovalve.gif)
How "mechanics" cheated ppl in Venezuela along the years? After make many MC changes, or service the pistons inside couple of times without good results they end disconnecting the dist block switch and drill a hole between bowls wall to keep the fluid balanced. Brakes keeps working, just not as efficient it should, but the "emptying and overflowing" problem was being "solved"... and light OFF. Sure everybody thinks the dist block will never fail LOL.
Have you noticed of the leak on lid comes from just the front section of MC ?
You can clean MC surface and gasket ( I in fact sandpaper them ) and add some pressure to the lid bending a bit the lid retaining spring.
Quote from: Nacho-RT74 on June 04, 2020, 02:49:16 AM
I allways have soldered and so far so good haven't got any problem with that yet. Sure I'm aware about the excess of lead will prone to break the wire specially to critical areas harnesses with movement and I don't have a good crimper.
The classic crimper for common closed-barrel connectors like these...
(https://i.imgur.com/sZ7ZFa8.jpg)
... is the Thomas & Betts WT111M:
(https://i.imgur.com/z3Yxag5.jpg)
Those are on the expensive side, but any crimpers with the same basic design will make a solid crimp in a closed barrel connector. There are even some versions of that cheap stamped steel crimper/stripper combination tool that I posted a picture of in my previous post that can make a solid indent-type crimp in addition to the not-so-solid oval-shaped crimps, and those work fine too. For example, I bought these cheap ones twenty some odd years ago, and use them for all closed-barrel connectors up to 10-12 gauge:
(https://i.imgur.com/hWpOWIB.jpg)
I use the indent crimper that's behind the hinge (marked "8-22 bare term") rather than those not-so-great oval crimpers that are in front of the hinge (marked "14-22 insul 10-12").
Technically you're only suppose to use an indent-type crimp on non-insulated terminals, because the indent can pierce the plastic insulation, but I couldn't care less about that. That tiny pierced section of plastic insulation ever being the cause of a short circuit is about as likely as winning the lottery every week for the next 50 years. In any case, if someone is concerned about it, they can simply remove the plastic insulation to turn them into non-insulated terminals (and add heat shrink tubing if they want).
For open-barrel terminals like are used in most factory-made wiring harnesses, for the past 15 years I've used a Waldom W-HT-1921 crimper, which isn't very expensive. There's a good article on how to use them here (http://therealbobroberts.net/crimping.html). There are also ratcheting crimpers with interchangeable dies, which crimp both parts of an open-barrel terminal at the same time (i.e., the part that grabs the bare wire and the part that grabs the insulation), but the Waldom is the only open-barrel crimper I have any experience with and it's always worked perfectly for me on a wide variety of open-barrel terminals, so that's what I've stuck with.
Thank you for posting about the crimpers. I am going to invest in a pair like you have. :2thumbs:
Nacho, yes...it is leaking on the front bowl side not the back towards the firewall.
Even with the new gasket that I just received, she still leaks, not as bad. :rotz:
Thank you for posting the diagram.
Quote from: BMOTOXSTAR on June 05, 2020, 01:01:26 PM
Nacho, yes...it is leaking on the front bowl side not the back towards the firewall.
Even with the new gasket that I just received, she still leaks, not as bad. :rotz:
Thank you for posting the diagram.
Ok... I bet the rear bowl it gets also reduced its contain. Sometimes even the lid seal, which gets somehow of "bag" areas ( dunno how to call them ), is sucked by the vacuum while the rear bowl is getting emptied. If is not a MC problem with pistons seals getting damaged, is the O rings into the brake fluid distributor ( AKA Combination valve or Badly AKA as proportioning valve )
there is a kit to rebuild them
https://www.musclecarresearch.com/mopar-parts
https://www.musclecarresearch.com/articles
Okay, per Nacho. My wiring harness is for a 74. Did not know there was a difference. Smog vs. Smog.
Every year harness is diff from the other, but 72/73 are the closer between them with minor differences easy to solve.
I guess I will throw mine away. Nobody restores 74 Chargers. Then again I thought the same thing for 73. :nana:
Yeah man I wanted the harness you have for an extra for years down the road.
I could tell it was not the same as my 73' Harness.
Do be mad... :pity:
I wish it would work for a 73 also.... :2thumbs:
I opened another can of worms with my brakes Nacho ! Where can I find the correct valve instead of rebuilding? I tried E-Bay and there is 3 different ones. I will post a pic of mine...
I took a closer look and yes the MC is leaking on the back by the boost also. So I am hoping that the new MC will solve the leak issue, already had a new one. I checked the lines and the bolts to the Boost and they are easy to get loose so I think I can handle this one. :scratchchin:
Mine is the original MC and it is crusty. The seal has to be bad. The valve looks crusty but dry and not leaking.
Maybe start a new brake issue thread?
Nacho, if only leaking out front bowl did you say I could just drill a hole in the MC wall? That stuiff is cast iron though.... :shruggy:
Quote from: Nacho-RT74 on June 04, 2020, 02:49:16 AM
I allways have soldered and so far so good haven't got any problem with that yet. Sure I'm aware about the excess of lead will prone to break the wire specially to critical areas harnesses with movement and I don't have a good crimper.
About the brake light... the lid gasket has nothing to do with the brake light on cluster. You are having a leak AFTER the dist block, or even between MC pistons OR the differential piston into the dist block is leaking throught the circuits O rings. BTDT on last one.
My car ( same as many Mopars in Vzla ) was getting the light on and the big bowl on MC getting emptied while the small bowl overflowed. At the end found the brake fluid was being interchanged between front and rear circuits through the differential piston system into the dist block. That was making the differential piston to activate the light on cluster because the front brakes system gets more pressure than the rear and with that drainage throught the dist block the piston was been pushed.
(https://theamcpages.com/images/brakes/combovalve.gif)
How "mechanics" cheated ppl in Venezuela along the years? After make many MC changes, or service the pistons inside couple of times without good results they end disconnecting the dist block switch and drill a hole between bowls wall to keep the fluid balanced. Brakes keeps working, just not as efficient it should, but the "emptying and overflowing" problem was being "solved"... and light OFF. Sure everybody thinks the dist block will never fail LOL.
Have you noticed of the leak on lid comes from just the front section of MC ?
You can clean MC surface and gasket ( I in fact sandpaper them ) and add some pressure to the lid bending a bit the lid retaining spring.
well, is a 40 years old car... LOL
long time ago a reproduction of the KH combination valve was being sold but not anymore. Anyway didn't last long. I got one and had to replaced a year and a half later due the same failure my original had. Had to get an used one ( once again ). It used a diff pressure sensor switch and differential piston.
I have heard somebody was working on a new reproduction, but by now just used are available or rebuilt your one. It is supossely kinda easy to do. I have the kit to rebuilt mine but still haven't. Well my car is on the body shop since 7 years ago, so, why I was to rebuilt it now ? LOL.
But go step by step. Go with the MC first.
The MC seals are easy to service at home. You don't need really to get a new MC. You can service either the seals or the pistons with seals attached, just keeping your MC. Really is EASY to do.
drill the MC wall is just to "cheat" the system being sure you won't be out of fluid on the big bowl if you have the fail I described LOL. Don't do it because is not a fix
Yeah man, did the master cylinder and bleed the brakes. Much better and no leaks ! Well so far... :2thumbs:
The brake light still stays on with no leaks at the PV or Master at all. The PV is real crusty and I will have to re-do the lines on that so I left alone since the MC lines were perfect.Very lucky !
Could it be possible to get a universal PV to work if I can't find a used one to get re-bulit? Want to keep mine on the car until I figure it out.
Think this could work?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-Disc-Brake-Proportioning-Valve-Metering-Valve-for-Disc-Drum-A-B-C-and-E/264342306725?hash=item3d8c077fa5:g:f1YAAOSwKlhdGsWE
Sorry I had missed this.
Better than a damaged valve is a working unit. But can't tell which one could be the best one. Some of the lines could require son bend mods
Quoting from AKCharger's thread
Quote from: BMOTOXSTAR on June 14, 2020, 11:00:13 AM
You got my charging system & electrical figured out ! :2thumbs:
So not anymore ocassional weird flickering reading on ammeter? It seems the loosen brush was the problem?
Quote from: BMOTOXSTAR on June 14, 2020, 11:00:13 AM
I also have a toggle for my hideaways from the battery with a fuse till I do the correct splice for that.
Dunno if you are aware about you can use a regular 5 pins relay?
(https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/attachments/hideaways-hook-up-d-jpg.632746/)
I did not know about that relay set up. Thanks man. Yeah for now it should not hurt am going to stay with the toggle to battery with a fuse?
Yeah that loose brush had to be the problem.
So, went to mechanic to have a ball joint and front end alignment done. He said that the rubber front brake lines will soon need replaced. Could that cause the light to stay on? Doubt it...
Ran great in the Arizona 100 degree heat to get back home and the ALT meter did great !
Thanks man
You can keep the toggle switch, but why if can be done working automatically as soon you turn on and off the headlights itself? LOL. I made that diagram long time ago and it seeems become popular on the web being shared.
The old rubber lines can get somehow damaged but as far they don't leak that won't turn on the cluster light. Sometimes the brakes fluid distributor piston switch could need to be reset somehow. I think the FSM says how to do it. Althought when I have bleeded te brakes system wher logically the light gets on, once the system gets back to normal the light comes off after some regular braking job.
Thank you again Nacho. I am going to order the lines myself, the rubber ones, they look a little crusty no leaks. I will try to bleed brakes again and hop that light goes out !
At least I know the light works though I guess !
Nacho is the Man !! :cheers: