What are you guys doing to prevent heat soaked starters?
Mine is just fine unless its hot then struggles, turns over a few times and boom fires up. I replaced battery last week which is good but it still does it.
I noticed that when i have key on its 12 v, when cranking it drops to 8 or 9 volts, not sure if this is normal or not but I only have issues after running it then trying to restart it.
Are you running headers? They have starter wraps.
Quote from: Mopar Nut on May 25, 2020, 02:28:19 PM
Are you running headers? They have starter wraps.
Do you have a source?
Quote from: green69rt on May 25, 2020, 02:37:47 PM
Quote from: Mopar Nut on May 25, 2020, 02:28:19 PM
Are you running headers? They have starter wraps.
Do you have a source?
Look for the size that fits your starter. This is just an example.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dei-010402
Quote from: green69rt on May 25, 2020, 02:37:47 PM
Quote from: Mopar Nut on May 25, 2020, 02:28:19 PM
Are you running headers? They have starter wraps.
Do you have a source?
It's an old mini starter, got to be like 15 - 20 years old, sits next to my wrapped headers, like 2 inches away unfortunatly. Thought the header wrap would have helped but it does not.
Quote from: Mopar Nut on May 25, 2020, 02:50:07 PM
Quote from: green69rt on May 25, 2020, 02:37:47 PM
Quote from: Mopar Nut on May 25, 2020, 02:28:19 PM
Are you running headers? They have starter wraps.
Do you have a source?
Look for the size that fits your starter. This is just an example.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dei-010402
I saw this, was not sure if it actually helped or not.
Quote from: comet_666 on May 25, 2020, 10:29:47 AM
What are you guys doing to prevent heat soaked starters?
Mine is just fine unless its hot then struggles, turns over a few times and boom fires up. I replaced battery last week which is good but it still does it.
I noticed that when i have key on its 12 v, when cranking it drops to 8 or 9 volts, not sure if this is normal or not but I only have issues after running it then trying to restart it.
Factory HP EXhaust Manifolds ?
Heat soaking starters is a "Headers" thing.... wrap them... and pay atention to airflow up/around the Engine in the Engine Bay
Quote from: Challenger340 on May 25, 2020, 06:22:39 PM
Quote from: comet_666 on May 25, 2020, 10:29:47 AM
What are you guys doing to prevent heat soaked starters?
Mine is just fine unless its hot then struggles, turns over a few times and boom fires up. I replaced battery last week which is good but it still does it.
I noticed that when i have key on its 12 v, when cranking it drops to 8 or 9 volts, not sure if this is normal or not but I only have issues after running it then trying to restart it.
Factory HP EXhaust Manifolds ?
Heat soaking starters is a "Headers" thing.... wrap them... and pay atention to airflow up/around the Engine in the Engine Bay
No, wrapped headers. I guess ill look into a starter wrap
Where is your timing set?
Have had that problem when crowding the timing at the strip.
Joe
It has done this for the last 5 years and i'm sure even before that, but now i'm just getting around to doing something about it lol. It does always start but after driving for awhile and shutting down, then coming back a few min later to restart it turns like 3x sort of stops then boom, fires up.
I have never been to the track with this car.
initial timing is 18
Quote from: comet_666 on May 26, 2020, 11:00:00 AM
It has done this for the last 5 years and i'm sure even before that, but now i'm just getting around to doing something about it lol. It does always start but after driving for awhile and shutting down, then coming back a few min later to restart it turns like 3x sort of stops then boom, fires up.
I have never been to the track with this car.
initial timing is 18
That sounds like timing or boiled fuel, not a starter.
Turns just fine cold and its running F-Tech now, actually did this before with the carb but the issue was worse then.
is 18 not a normal base timing?
Here is a bad pic I took this afternoon
Rule out ignition by getting it hot, doing your normal wait period, pull the coil wire and crank it a while. See if it stops.
Oh great idea! Never occoured to me to try that!
I'll do that tomorrow if possible and report back
thanks!
Hopefully I get a chance to do it this weekend, weather has been spotty here to say the least, but out of curiosity, what if it turns over normally? Instead of thinking it was a heat soaked starter, what else could it be?
That points to timing.
Joe
Comet,
Are your headers ceramic coated ? If not that is most likely the problem. Headers capture the starter and will cause hard start when hot.
I have the timing locked out at 35* on my 572 and the DB mini-starter spins it over like a 4 banger even when hot. I have ceramic coated TTI's and the underhood temps are easily 200* cooler vs an uncoated header. Surface temp as measured with an infrared lazer gun is 400*F with the engine at operating temp. If you have an IR gun measure the starter surface temp when it is turning over slowly to see how hot it's getting.
The DEI starter blanket will certainly help and is worth a try :yesnod:
What headers are you using ?
Ron
Quote from: firefighter3931 on May 30, 2020, 02:45:22 PM
Comet,
Are your headers ceramic coated ? If not that is most likely the problem. Headers capture the starter and will cause hard start when hot.
I have the timing locked out at 35* on my 572 and the DB mini-starter spins it over like a 4 banger even when hot. I have ceramic coated TTI's and the underhood temps are easily 200* cooler vs an uncoated header. Surface temp as measured with an infrared lazer gun is 400*F with the engine at operating temp. If you have an IR gun measure the starter surface temp when it is turning over slowly to see how hot it's getting.
The DEI starter blanket will certainly help and is worth a try :yesnod:
What headers are you using ?
Ron
Hi Ron, I am using OBX headers and they have the ARTR Titanium Lava Fiber wrap on them. But even before I had them wrapped it acted the same way, it was one of the reasons I wrapped them to begin with other than the heat soaked carb at the time.
As soon as it dries up here ill take it for a spin and try to recreate and test with coil wire off. I am expecting same results.
Comet,
How did the OBX headers fit ? Any clearance issues with power steering, torsion bars etc...just curious.
It seems that starter isn't happy when warm. Do the coilwire check to see if it's timing related. If it turns over slowly you'll know for sure it's a heat soak issue.
*Make sure your battery connections are clean and tight. A loose connection will cause problems. How old are the batter cables ? Check the connection at the starter as well.
FWIW i've had excellent results with the high torque DB Electrical mini starter. :2thumbs:
Ron
I just did the test, however its only 60 here today and the car was barely at 180 when I pulled in garage. Let it sit for about 10 min and pulled coil wire, now temp was at 189 and it spun normally, plugged coil wire back in and it spun for like .2 seconds then fired up...sooo not sure if it was good test or not really. It tends to fire up real quick with the Fi tech for sure but it definatly did not sound like it was straining with coil wire off or on really. I will test again when temp is hot again. Hard for me to wrap my head around it being a timing issue because timing would be same hot or cold correct?
OBX headers fit fine, needed some tweaking around torsion bar on driver side, not sure about power steering because I don't have it lol.
Battery, relay, battery cables are all new, well battery is like a month old and everything else is around 5 years old, starter is from the 90's probably.
I had hedman headers on my 383 that 2 tubes touched the stock starter and i never had a heat soak issue. The current ttis on my 440 and mini starter are 2 1/8 tubes that have the starter fully surrounded with paper thin clearances due to the massive tubes. Neither headers or starter combos were wrapped or coated and never had a hoat soak issue.
Yah I personally know people who have smashed their headers to "clear" the starter and have at least one tube touching it and they do not have same issues I have.
I have had this issue for at least 5 years (as long as I have had the car back from doing a resto).
It starts within 2 or 3 seconds but struggles.
Maybe ill record it...
How old is your starter? Sounds like a bad starter.
It's gotta be 15-20 years old now. That equates to about 6000 miles lol
I would replace it.
Starter don't work as well if they are very hot, in my experience heat soak is not generally an issue, It can happen but it has to get pretty hot. Mostly if hard to start when hot and all else is OK - cables battery, engine not to tight when hot, timing, then I would suggest you pull the starter and strip it down to have a look at it's condition. With the mini starter you can just pull the drive motor off and dismantle that to see if the armature brushes and field coils ( if it has them) are in good condition. Personally, with the difficulty of pulling and refitting the starter when they are captured by headers I would just fit a new one. If you do this, make sure you know what you are getting. They are not all created equal and come in different KW ratings. I have an original Chrysler starer and coated headers, never had a problem.