In early December, I ordered a new trunk floor 2 piece kit from Tamraz on ebay, as of xmas day, I still hadn't received anything so opened a complaint on ebay with them, I was informed I needed to pay an extra 25.00 for shipping to a residential address (as was stated on the original ad, which was fine with me), but it should have processed this as part of the original payment through paypal, I paid the additional payment, and they stated they had ordered the part directly through AMD but did not provide shipping details as i requested so i could track the part and ensure i was available on its expected delivery date. two weeks later, I responded to the case I opened that this process was taking far too long and either provide me with a tracking number or I'd dispute the charge. Today I was notified of a full refund (not including the 25.00 delivery charge, which I'll follow up through paypal later.
What i'd like to know is where or who should i order the replacement floor from now? is 521 restorations a trustworthy site to order from? they offer the same part for the same price, and do not mention an additional charge for shipping to a residential address. I want to order the new part so i can finish the trunk replacement process while i'm still out of work and available to work on the car. Are there better sellers to go through?
I had previously ordered and received a gas tank through Tamraz, and had thought that the purchase process went well, but i won't be ordering through them again based on this experience. They've wasted a month of my time already. Any suggestions for buying AMD sheetmetal through? I know there are plenty of AMD body panel customers on this site, so someone should be able to recommend a reputable shop. Lowest cost isn't the most important factor, but it does help.
Thanks guys, appreciate the input so i can move forward on this.
Lord Warlock
Jacksonville, FL
521 is a great vendor. I order my sheet metal from him or Adeals, usually AMD stuff from 521, and Sherman parts from Adeals. I ordered my 2 PC. Floor from Adeals and it was $241 shipped to my residential address. If you use adeals, order directly from their website instead of their eBay store...usually saves you a few bucks.
Jason
jeff at 521 is a great guy .
the Adeals pieces I see online look like mirror images of the left side, both show the filler tube section, the right side shouldn't have that flat area with the oval cutout. The price is great but the part isn't correct in my eyes. Their regular website doesn't seem to be working for me with either, with IE10 or Firefox browsers. Gives me an error when i try to get into the links to 69 charger parts. The 521 part online looks to have the correct part but its almost twice the cost of the other guy.
Quote from: Lord Warlock on January 08, 2014, 08:16:23 PM
the Adeals pieces I see online look like mirror images of the left side, both show the filler tube section, the right side shouldn't have that flat area with the oval cutout. The price is great but the part isn't correct in my eyes. Their regular website doesn't seem to be working for me with either, with IE10 or Firefox browsers. Gives me an error when i try to get into the links to 69 charger parts. The 521 part online looks to have the correct part but its almost twice the cost of the other guy.
The pic is just like that, it doesn't come that way. I figured they just had a pic of one side, then mirrored it for the web pic (to show 2 pieces). Adeals has an eBay store too, it just cost a little more I paid 241 shipped for my pans, but on eBay they are 280 shipped (I guess to cover his seller fees).
Jason
wasn't sure, and the 521 piece listed it as the last one available so i ordered that one, didn't want to take a chance on getting a trunk floor as it was pictured, would have saved me almost 100 bucks though, so may not have been the most prudent decision. Adeals web store at least let me look at their choices, I tried emailing the local AMD distributor who posted here a year or so back, but the email got returned as invalid, and didn't want to wait...i'm kind of impulsive once i make my mind up to spend money on something, i want it yesterday. Was kind of ticked off at the tamraz situation, been waiting for their part now for a month.
Good to know both shops have a good rep with folks here though, there are other parts I'll need to get. Still considering whether to get a replacement passenger front fender or a replacement hood, plan on trying to get by with the original parts for now. Its amazing how the lack of a body line on 6 inches of front fender makes me want to spend 400 bucks to resolve it.
Quote from: Lord Warlock on January 09, 2014, 12:57:55 AM
wasn't sure, and the 521 piece listed it as the last one available so i ordered that one, didn't want to take a chance on getting a trunk floor as it was pictured, would have saved me almost 100 bucks though, so may not have been the most prudent decision. Adeals web store at least let me look at their choices, I tried emailing the local AMD distributor who posted here a year or so back, but the email got returned as invalid, and didn't want to wait...i'm kind of impulsive once i make my mind up to spend money on something, i want it yesterday. Was kind of ticked off at the tamraz situation, been waiting for their part now for a month.
Good to know both shops have a good rep with folks here though, there are other parts I'll need to get. Still considering whether to get a replacement passenger front fender or a replacement hood, plan on trying to get by with the original parts for now. Its amazing how the lack of a body line on 6 inches of front fender makes me want to spend 400 bucks to resolve it.
I would say that the 521 guy (jeff) actually checks to make sure your parts are available when ordering. I have worked with him a lot and always was happy with the service. He does have another job so please understand that sometimes the replys don't come thru in a few minutes. Tell him Mitch recommended him :icon_smile_big:
Tamaraz is about a mile from me so I stopped out to buy some 68 bumperetts to save on the freight. They would not discount it because it had free freight on ebay. Was not impressed with the CSR's attitude. I won't buy from them anymore either.
If they didn't ship it is it because AMD doesn't actually have it in stock? Most all of those vendors drop ship directly from AMD so, if their warehouse is empty, then no one will have it! Check Stephens Performance if that's the case because they do keep stock on hand.
Troy
Well, have to say there is a difference between Tamraz and 521, Tamraz didn't bother to do anything for 3 weeks until I opened a case up with ebay, then they responded very quickly telling me I needed to send more money to cover shipping to a residence, then after I confirmed payment for the additional amount they said they requested the part being sent direct from AMD but didn't have tracking info, a week later i updated the case indicating I needed tracking information soon or i would dispute the charge through the credit card company, two days later i was informed that I had been given a full refund (only for the initial purchase, they did not bother to refund the 2nd payment for additional shipping, I had to open a second case today through paypal to attempt to recoup that payment)
After i got a response about 521 here on the site (very promptly i may add) I ordered the part through 521 through their ebay store, within 2 hours I had a tracking number and notification that the part was shipped, today I checked the tracking and it has already been picked up so I assume 521 did have the part on hand and was able to ship it immediately, without an extra delivery charge.
I am pretty easy to deal with, rarely get upset about delays as long as i'm informed of whats going on. If Tamraz had indicated they were out of stock and needed to drop ship from AMD i would have been fine with that, provided they had given me a tracking number within 3 or 4 days. I've ordered dozens of parts through ebay over the years and always had a good experience with each purchase, I've never even been ripped off buying parts off of auto forums like many have, maybe the fact that i was the classified moderator at one of the sites had some influence on that, not really sure though.
Even if I got the part from Tamraz with a delay i wouldn't be freaking out, I'm not really looking forward to fitting the panels and welding them into the trunk area, I'm not a welder by trade, was a welders helper on the oil rigs for 4 to 5 years, but we used welding rods not wire like i'm forced to use in my garage. Had enough flash burn in my eyes to be wary of welding to last a lifetime. I have been prepping the trunk area getting old fiberglass resin ground off/out and removing the seam sealer over the original welds, but it could take me a month to get the whole job done myself...or I may end up hiring a welder to come out and do it on site if possible, the car isn't transportable yet, getting close but not there yet. The hard part for me will be cutting out areas so I can go around the spare tire mount and maybe the jack pieces, I'm not cutting out the entire trunk area if i can avoid it, if i took it to a shop I'd have them cut out the entire part that is being replaced.
I have noticed that several sellers online have been listing trunk panels that are using new tooling from AMD, and those pieces are even more expensive than the older tooling was, the fact that they have new tooling may have been a reason for delays or stock problems. Personally I don't really care about old or new tooling as long as the panels look close to the originals.
2 piece trunk floor arrived in the mail today. 521 came through with flying colors, recommend them to others whoever may be looking.
Anyone have links to trunk floor replacement threads? Was planning on fitting the new floor over the pieces outside of the frame rails that were still solid without cutting out the entire floor area, primarily because i don't want to remove the trunk latch frame, nor remove the rear bumper brackets which are all sitting on solid metal and cutting all of this out would likely lead to more issues i didn't want to deal with. The only section of the floor that was bad was the center section inside the frame rails above the gas tank. (the cross support bar in the middle was in good shape still). Figured i'd drill holes along the tops of the frame rails, cross section support bar then weld thru the drilled holes to the frame, and along the outer edges where they would sit against the extenstions, the edges would be covered with seam sealer like the original was so wouldn't need a full bead. Also planned on cutting holes to fit over the existing jack bracket and loop to hold the jack handle. Now may have to notch it instead as it appears to sit halfway on the trunk piece and half on the extension panel.
Will have to trim parts of the floor pieces off, as there is a lip along the outer edges that will keep it from laying flat in place, as well as along the wheelwells and rear edge under the tail lights. The parts under the package tray are the biggest concern as I'll have to remove the brace for the spare tire, and the two flanges on top of the hump for which i have no clue why they are even there, maybe its to let the spare sit flat, but I don't plan on carrying a spare tire for now. The new panels don't have those hump pieces on them. Looks like i'll be spending a lot of time inside the trunk area soon.
Looks like the center seam has a flanged area on the left side, where the right side will fit on top of the left side to sit flush, didn't expect that, had planned on installing the right side first, did most of the prep work on that side already, now i have to do the left side first instead. reality kicks in when have the new panels in front of me and i start trying to figure out how to proceed.
I really don't know what is going on with your car but what I have found is there are a lot of hidden problems. But....if you just want to replace a center section of the trunk floor it is fairly easy to cut out the rotten part (back to solid metal) then butt weld the patch in place. It's actually pretty easy to do if you have a little experience welding sheet metal. Maybe someone should start a thread on welding because all the techniques and tricks come up a lot!!!?
There is always going to be problems to overcome whenever you start each project, the trunk floor situation cropped up after starting a brake line replacement, knew it needed replacing, but first replaced the brake lines from front to rear, then ended up replacing rear axles, hubs and brakes, dropping the gas tank, then cutting the bad floor out of the trunk. This thread started due to problems i encountered while ordering the trunk floor from an ebay vendor, as soon as it got resolved i ordered another from 521 restorations, and am happy with the part. The next phase is just the fun part of replacing sheet metal, While I don't consider myself a welder, I did work with welders doing pipe welding when i was in my 20s, but their welding systems are different than the wire feed welder i'm using now. I figured out how to use this one by looking at videos online, it worked well enough to successfully weld a patch panel on the right rear quarter panel. This one is a bit more involved and in a constricted place than before.
I think i can likely do it myself without ruining the panels, it will just take time, a bit of trimming, a lot of measuring and test fitting before i start actually welding. The few threads i've found so far show people drilling holes in the panels then welding them to the cross brace and frame rails through the drilled holes. I thought i'd be butt welding the center seam, even bought some clamps to hold the pieces together till tacked in place, but the flanged edge makes it so i can't do what i'd expected.
What do most people use to cut the old rusty/pinholed metal out with? a jigsaw, a sawzall, or some other trimmer? The jigsaw i had did a decent job cutting some out till the blades i had broke, the grinder was harder to use but did a passable job at it, but couldn't do tight corners or bends. I haven't tried the sawzall yet, although the blades should hold up better than the jigsaw i have. I'll be a busy bee this week and weekend trimming more off and removing the old seam sealer around the inside around the wheelwells and along the sides of the main floor, the factory seemed to lay a pretty thick glob along the edges.
Just a few thoughts on welding. I learned to weld on heavy plate. Welding on thin sheet is a lot different. It might help to take a couple of scraps and butt weld them together to see how things turn out. Heavy plate welding takes nice long beads. Not so with thin sheet metal. Tack, tack, tack.
Just my :Twocents:
More on what you noted. The old manufacturing methods were designed for speed, not neatness. Sealer was really slopped on!!
Whatever method you use to cut the old metal out is probably fine. I used a angle grinder with metal cutting blades. Others use sawsalls, cutting torches' etc. Whatever works.
When using the plug-weld method, the hardest part may be grinding down the weld that sticks above the sheet metal so you don't take too much off. For the trunk, it's under the mat so don't over do it because no one will see.
Cutting torches leave too sloppy an edge, i've used those before for cutting plate iron and pipes, suppose a plasma cutter would be better but don't have one of those. The sawsall worries me because i don't want to cut anything important below the floor, like the frame rails or the exhaust pipes. When i welded the patch panel on the quarter it was a tack weld, spaced out 6 inches apart or more, then tack between the tacks, then continue tacking between until i had almost a complete bead, grinding it flush afterward. I expect to do the same this time. Suppose i better take some pics of the seam sealer so I can try to duplicate it somewhat afterward. It was done neatly around the wheelwells but slopped on heavy along the sides of the floor along the extensions.
Have to take it easy working on it, my elbow can't take much stress yet swinging hammers or using an air chisel, overstressed it trying to break a bolt tightened with an impact wrench on the front brakes. Now every time i jolt it or overuse it its painful. May have to get an xray done on it soon, been irritated for a month now. Using a two handed electric tool isn't bad though. saw a neat looking saw by dremel using a 3 inch blade that looked like it would work better than the grinder. Have lots of experience with grinders and buffers from the oil rig/roustabout/welder helper days.
Sounds like an air cut off tool with a 3" x 1/32" cut off wheel would be useful here if you have an air supply in your shop. It leaves a nice clean edge and you can easily control the depth of the cut. Also, a spot weld removal tool. I have one made by Blair and it works well. It can also be used to cut 3/8" holes in the new sheet metal for plug welding where needed. Neither tool should stress that sore elbow.
My compressor doesn't have the air power to sustain the cutoff wheel, i have one and it spins fast enough until you put it to metal, then it slows down so much that it doesn't cut. It only holds pressure at 4.5cfm or so (maybe 5.5 or 6 advertised but not sure it maintains that rate), fine for spray guns and some impact tools, but not very good with sanders or cut off wheels. Have several angle grinders, buffers and dremels already, dremel is just too flimsy to do the floor metal, will cut it but would take forever and would got through a lot of discs which aren't cheap.
My big compressor is one of the best purchases I've ever made! Although, had I not gotten it I would have probably sold the cars and saved myself a lot of time and money on tools. So, maybe I shot myself in the foot here...
Sanders, grinders, hammers, and impact wrenches use a LOT of air. Nailers, staplers, airbrushes, etc. do not. Let's assume you probably can't run an air body saw or drill either. A Dremel tool is fine for tiny projects but not working on a car body. I have a RotoZip that I bought years ago and found that it does a decent job of cutting metal in a pinch. It is a bit tough to control though. A 4" grinder is also very handy but I don't know if you can use cutting wheels with it. A grinding wheel is going to remove a boatload of metal. A "Sawzall" will work and isn't terribly expensive (or accurate). Any "brute force" method will require something with more finesse to clean up - which brings you right back to air tools that you can't currently use.
I bought an expensive (for me) compressor but it allowed me to buy a whole slew of cheap Harbor Freight air tools. I have several grinders that I paid $9 for and stacks of cutoff wheels that cost about as much for a whole pack as a couple Dremel discs would. I use the tools constantly on my cars and they have greatly improved my productivity. My favorite are the die grinders (straight and right angle) because I can use heavy grinding wheel, cutoff wheels, or put on a "Roloc" adapter and use the 2" or 3" 3M sanding discs and scuff pads. Very versatile - but very air hungry! You could probably do most all of your metal work with one - clean the rust, cut the panel, clean EDP coating off new panels, sand/grind edges to fit, grind the tops off the welds, sand the welds flat, and scuff for primer/paint. The compressor is also nice for cooling down a panel after welding AND blowing out the grit and metal shards when you're finished so you don't set your hand down or sit in them.
I have a couple of the Blair spot weld cutters mentioned above. Awesome! You can use a regular drill or air drill - although you generally want much slower speeds so electric with a speed control is better. It's easy to go all the way through if you aren't careful - you really only want to go through the top piece. You can't always reach every spot weld though. On a trunk floor, you *can* (carefully) grind the spot welds down with a grinding wheel. Do NOT go too deep. Nearly all the welds are accessible this way - except maybe some in the wheel houses by the frame rails. This leaves the lower piece (usually frame rail) intact so you can weld directly too it. Some spot welds are rusted through the seams so, eventually, you need something else to help you clean up the area.
Troy
I used an angle grinder with a thin metal cutoff wheel for just about everything (picture.) For smaller or more delicate cuts I used a dremel tool with metal cutting wheels (dremel blades are expensive so I only used them when nothing else worked.)
At the current time, i do regret not getting a larger and more efficient compressor, would have had to get them to deliver it as i no longer have a truck to carry it home, and likely couldn't pick it up by myself anyway. The 6.5hp 40 gallon tank compressor I have has done a very good job for the past 5 years and is more functional than the 3.5hp 25 gallon i had before, it just doesn't sustain some of the tools i am only now encountering a need for. It does a fine job for painting cars though.
Not sure how the wife is gonna like the credit card bill when she sees it, but i went out and got a dremel saw-max today, it uses a smaller cutoff wheel and went right thru the floor panel when i tested it on a couple sections. It won't fit or do some of the tighter turns i'll need to do in the corners or near the tail panel, the regular dremel i have with the long extension tip and screwdriver sized handle should work in those areas but those blades cost way more than they should. (as Troy and Green stated) I also have a rotozip tool i bought years ago, and even have the 90 degree attachment with a cutoff attachment, but not sure where i put the attachment, it isn't easy to grip though, mine is the original style model, do wonder if the rotozip drillbit would cut the metal ok, could try that if i had to. But i have the electric jig saw and sawsall so have quite a few choices to try out. some work better than others.
Quote from: Lord Warlock on January 15, 2014, 06:22:24 PM
At the current time, i do regret not getting a larger and more efficient compressor, would have had to get them to deliver it as i no longer have a truck to carry it home, and likely couldn't pick it up by myself anyway. The 6.5hp 40 gallon tank compressor I have has done a very good job for the past 5 years and is more functional than the 3.5hp 25 gallon i had before, it just doesn't sustain some of the tools i am only now encountering a need for. It does a fine job for painting cars though.
Not sure how the wife is gonna like the credit card bill when she sees it, but i went out and got a dremel saw-max today, it uses a smaller cutoff wheel and went right thru the floor panel when i tested it on a couple sections. It won't fit or do some of the tighter turns i'll need to do in the corners or near the tail panel, the regular dremel i have with the long extension tip and screwdriver sized handle should work in those areas but those blades cost way more than they should. (as Troy and Green stated) I also have a rotozip tool i bought years ago, and even have the 90 degree attachment with a cutoff attachment, but not sure where i put the attachment, it isn't easy to grip though, mine is the original style model, do wonder if the rotozip drillbit would cut the metal ok, could try that if i had to. But i have the electric jig saw and sawsall so have quite a few choices to try out. some work better than others.
I started off using a Roto tool with the angle attachment but burnt a couple of the attachments up. Just not up to the job. That's why I switched to the angle grinder wheels.
Sounds like you have enough tools to choose which one is best. Happy demo!
Quote from: Lord Warlock on January 15, 2014, 06:22:24 PM
At the current time, i do regret not getting a larger and more efficient compressor, would have had to get them to deliver it as i no longer have a truck to carry it home, and likely couldn't pick it up by myself anyway. The 6.5hp 40 gallon tank compressor I have has done a very good job for the past 5 years and is more functional than the 3.5hp 25 gallon i had before, it just doesn't sustain some of the tools i am only now encountering a need for. It does a fine job for painting cars though.
I got the 60 Gal 4.5 HP compressor from IR and even it's not big enough for blasting. Runs tool and spray guns fine. It was the biggest compressor that I could buy that would run off of a 30 Amp 220v Breaker.
Ok, have a little experience with the saw max trimming the panel this afternoon, the saw blades must be too thin for the sheet metal because it eats thru the blades too quick, i was getting about 15 inches of a cut before a wheel would wear out on the new panels, so it was not a solution for this particular purpose, it works fine cutting weakened rusted metal out of the trunk area but not new strong sheet metal. The Jig saw blade did a better job overall, still have a couple cuts to make and several trial fittings.
As it looks right now, i will have to remove the brace for the spare tire that is welded to the trunk sheet metal, what is the best way to remove those pieces? with a grinder, or an air chisel? never used an air chisel before, but i'll need to cut thru the welds and am thinking this may be a solution. I can go to harbor freight tomorrow to pick up an inexpensive model, they need 4.0 cfm to run so my compressor should be strong enough to run it. The bracket is in the way of the panel sitting flat so will need to be removed, i'd prefer not to ruin it getting it off and don't want to cut the floor around it since that part of the trunk is solid, the new panel will fit over the old metal there.
Also there are two pieces that are welded on top of the area under the package tray just behind the spare bracket, I'd like to remove those as well, whatever i use to remove the spare tire bracket will also be used to remove those.
Whenever it was possible and I was going to save a piece that was welded on top of a piece that was getting replaced (that make sense?) I would just cut around the part to be saved and take the whole thing to my work bench, put it in a bench vise and then use a grinding wheel to grind off the welds from the back side.
As for the spare tire holders etc, they are pretty cheap from 521 so it may not be worth your time tool wear to try to save them.
These the parts you're talking about?
The original isn't worth saving anyway since the bottom edge is rusted out, 95% of it is in great condition, but the bottom half inch or so is jagged, its been missing for years, even before i ever started working on the car. Went out and bought an air chisel this afternoon, as well as an electric cutoff tool with 3 inch cutoff wheels, and got a pack of extra wheels at harbor freight. Usually I don't like the tools from HF too much, haven't been impressed with them, but can't beat the prices and if they do the job won't complain.
Yes i was talking about those two risers and the spare tire mount.
Finding the right tool is paramount. an Air Chisel was definitely the right way to go, took off the brackets in less than 2 hours of work. Took longer to figure out how to put the air hammer together than it did to get the first bracket off. Unfortunately it aggravated my elbow injury so i'm feeling the stress on the joint, but i did get the three spare tire flanges off as well as cut off the factory jack brace and loop for the handle. Now i have to just clear off the joint compound/sealer, and grind the surfaces clean, then trim the panel to fit. One step forward today. Best 17.00 i've spent this week.
Always a good feeling isn't it? :2thumbs:
if it works for you then go for it. We all have different ways of getting it done. Any more pics?
Just be careful as an air chisel can do a LOT of damage that sucks to repair later! I got a little too aggressive with mine popping spot welds off the frame rails in the trunk and sliced one rail and pounded some good sized (sharp) dents in the other. It's great for removing large sections of rusted metal but I've learned that something a little gentler is needed when you want to "split" pieces and save one of them.
Troy
I should be able to get more pics tomorrow, I'm still cutting off some parts of the trunk that i'm not happy with putting new metal over, some is pitted more than i'd like. I'm sure most would cut the entire panel out instead of welding new metal over old metal. It isn't the best solution but its what I know i can do myself rather than hiring the job out. I just want to look decent from inside the trunk area, and seal the floor completely. Someone after me may want to do the job right and redo it, but this should end up well enough to put the tank back in and drive it for a while.
The whole goal of this project is to do absolutely everything that I could possibly do myself, even if it meant that I had to learn new skills or relearn old skills. When my dad fixed the rusted out floors of the old cars we had, he would pop rivet sheetmetal in place (usually an illegally obtained stop sign or other street sign that he could get a hold of without any witnesses) then he'd fiberglass the edges in place to get a solid seal without bondo. My dad rarely would steal anything, but he would pick up signs knocked over from accident scenes occasionally.
Good point Troy, getting the upper right flange the tires sits on off, the air chisel wen through the front weld and under the floor pan metal and left a nasty looking hole that i'll have to hammer flat again. Luckily it didn't damage the bracing underneath. There is no way I could do a good enough job removing the spot welds without a lift and the right tools, none of the spot welds are visible from the bottom since the undercoating covers everything down there. Th e new sheetmetal has a hole ro the right of where the spare tire bracket was welded on, there was no hole in the original sheetmetal. Trimmed the left side flange of the trunk panel off so it would sit flat, and then made a cut so the new panel would fit around the trunk lock tower, and left rear trunk bumper mount. Still getting the seam sealer off from around the rear wheels, its stuck on real good there, but i'm finding surface rust under the sealant so need to get it all out to redo it all once the new panel goes in.
trimmed the panel up, have a mismeasurement issue with the hole i cut for the left rear bumper bracket, will have to weld in a small sliver to patch the left side which i overcut by an inch (measure twice cut once didn't work, next time its measure 3 times cut once...hopefully.) Right side will involve a larger notch around the rear lock housing, I'll use the left side to ensure i have the correct depth. Was fairly happy with the overall fit. I'll have to crawl up inside the trunk area to remove the rubber drain plugs in the upper/package tray section, and use clamps to hold it in place there before welding.
shows the hole before placing the new metal for trial fit.
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/Lord_Warlock/047_zps8c4cf139.jpg)
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/Lord_Warlock/050_zps4004cd99.jpg)
shows the overcut hole? oops, too late to cry now. Looked fine before i trimmed the square off
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/Lord_Warlock/049_zpsc8c060de.jpg)
Still have lots of work to do before welding. lots of grinding to clean up the remaining floor, old fiberglass is really hard to get off in spots. Also have to finish getting the sealer off from around the wheelwell on the left side, can't weld the edge with sealer there. There are times I wish i had a rotisserie, or a lift, this is one of those times. elbow just can't take the stress of the grinder torque, whole forearm is inflamed now. Have a doctor appt thursday (and a job interview with a recruiter tomorrow) May have to go back to work soon which would put this project on a slower timetable.
I use a knotted wire wheel on a 4" grinder for seam sealer and undercoating. Makes a mess but goes rather quickly! If it has surface rust underneath it may come off with a scraper - but I bet some of it is still nice and sticky. In a pinch, I have a thick wire brush (only about 1" around) on a drill that can fit in some tight spaces.
I'm no professional by any stretch. I just have too many cars to pay other people and very limited time. I don't have a lift either (but I do have a rotisserie - now that I've finished most of the car laying on my back!). It certainly wears on your body. I stopped taking multiple days in a row to work on the cars. I had 13 days off in a row over Christmas and just couldn't force myself into the garage all the time.
On the trunk pan, I use self drilling screws and run them into the rail. You can't get enough clamps on there to keep it from lifting once you apply heat. Once the "spots" are welded pull the screws and weld those shut (or you can fill as you go I guess). Crank up the voltage (not wire speed as it will "cap" the hole before welding through) and the screw holes make a decent approximation of a spot weld without drilling any holes. Next time I may just attach the whole panel that way...
One reason I'm so slow is I only cut a tiny bit off at a time when fitting a panel. Usually with a grinder. I'm not so good at butt welding thin sections!
Troy
I need to replace the wire brush on the grinder, mine is worn down a bit and occasionally throws a wire at 20,000 rpm thru the shirt/pants and into the meat of my body, can live with that (and have) but have to protect the eyes. Was lucky today while cutting the last piece off the hole in the furthermost left of the trunk, the 3" cutting wheel (on an electric cutter) disintegrated and pieces went shooting in all directions. Glad i wasn't looking at it when it happened. I now have 3 grinders, one of which the retaining screw is stuck and won't let me take the wheel off, so i got another cheap one at sears. do you use the wire brush attachment that looks like a bell or the wheel shaped? I have both. I stripped most of the paint off the car with the wheel shaped while taking the whole body down to metal.
The electric cutting wheel works where the air powered one won't work with my compressor. BUT it overloads it and trips a built in circuit breaker on the drill fairly often. Glad the unit has the trip switch or I'd burn the unit out too quick. Cutting the flange off the side edges and rear edge is the hardest cuts to make, can't use a cutting wheel for that since there are tight bends to deal with around the wheelwell area, jigsaw worked best for that part, but already broke one new blade.
I use 4 kinds of wire wheels...
For heavy rust and undercoating I use a 4" "knotted" wheel. It's about 1/2" thick and instead of the wires poking straight out radially there are about 8(?) clumps where the wires are twisted together. This makes them extremely stiff! The size means it moves a LOT of material. A drill probably doesn't have the power to spin one of these through heavy undercoat so a grinder is almost a necessity.
For paint/light rust removal I use a normal looking wheel (I primarily use the 3M stripping wheels for this purpose now but they are large and bulky). These will take forever on anything heavy and you'll end up looking like you've been attacked by a porcupine.
For oddball shapes I use a "cup" style wheel in various sizes. There are some newer kinds with abrasive impregnated fibers instead of wire and the whole surface cleans the metal. This is really handy for the inside of frame rails, inside the tail panel, and engine compartments.
Lastly, I use a "bell" shaped wire brush for tight areas. The one I use most has very thick wires. I think it's listed as a" gasket remover" - and works great for that purpose too as long as you mask off everything near you!
I think most of these are listed with a max speed of about 3,500 rpm so don't use them on a high speed air drill. You'll just destroy them faster. Same with spot weld cutters - go slow and there will be less chance of slipping and the tool will last many times longer. I didn't set out to buy all these for body work. Some I just had laying around and when I got stuck on an area I'd poke through my tools to see if anything else would work.
I need to make a fine cut right now and it's in a position where none of my current tools will fit. I haven't solved that one yet. I may just have to make a big cut and weld it all back. Some of my biggest hurdles have come because I either did something in the wrong order or refused to move something else when it wouldn't have been much more effort. I guess that's why I'm still about 4 times slower than any half way decent "professional". By the time I finish all the cars in my garage I will look like a whirlwind compared to today!
Troy
Hey guys, I'm replacing a trunk floor right now. Besides the actual floor, what else do I need to complete the job? Brace? I don't know what gutters are but I've seen them. Needed?
Thanks
Jeff
Quote from: MxRacer855 on January 23, 2014, 12:25:30 AM
Hey guys, I'm replacing a trunk floor right now. Besides the actual floor, what else do I need to complete the job? Brace? I don't know what gutters are but I've seen them. Needed?
Thanks
Jeff
It really all depends on the extent of rust. I replaced the trunk pans in my 68 a few months ago. The brace underneath was rock solid, so I didn't have to replace that. Check your trunk extensions. The right one on my car was in good shape, so I didn't remove it, just left it. Now the left side had some rust, so I replaced it when I replaced the floors. Also check your inner wheel housing. Mine were in pretty good shape, but did have a little rust along the bottom. I had to make a couple of small patches on the right one, but I bent up/formed a patch, and replaced the bottom 2"-3" of the left one. But those can be bought new if yours are in worst shape.
Jason
If the rust is just in the floor then it might be a good idea to try to find out how water is getting into the trunk. Around the back window or thru the trunk seal are two commen spots. Other places that you might not think about are around the tail lights or the bumper mounting holes. Also if replacing the trunk floor extensions it's a good time to fabricate a piece of metal to fill in the huge hole Dodge left in the corners of the trunk. Pic attached of mine.
Quote from: MxRacer855 on January 23, 2014, 12:25:30 AM
Hey guys, I'm replacing a trunk floor right now. Besides the actual floor, what else do I need to complete the job? Brace? I don't know what gutters are but I've seen them. Needed?
Thanks
Jeff
Sometimes you just need the middle of the floor (if you're lucky!). If your car needs quarters because the bottom behind the wheels is rotted then you likely need the extensions too. There is a brace under the floor pan that is often rusted if the pan has large holes. In this case you may have frame rail issues too (although the rails are thicker and have drainage holes). The spare tire bracket is usually eaten up on the bottom edge. If it's just the "tab" at the bottom it can be repaired. If it goes higher it will be hard to recreate the factory contours. The jack bracket (shown above) may also have some issues - but probably only if the car sat in such a way that there was a lot of water in the trunk. There are 2 bumper brackets (look like ramps) at the back edge that could have rust depending on how the car was sitting. If they are gone then the tail panel to valance seam is probably wasted too.
Troy
My quarter panels have some bondo at the bottom of them, so I'm going to replace them in the next few years before I get the car re-painted. Right now, the leaf spring perches are absolutely shot and the trunk floor is too. So I want to replace those items only because the paint on my car is in great shape. The previous owners sprayed over imperfect body work (but overall pretty good) and I want it to be done right in the future.
Since this is my first dab in body work, I guess my question is, if I install the floor, perches, and anything else required (floor brace, etc.), can that all be salvaged when it comes time to replace the wheel housings, quarter panels, etc? I would feel really bad if replacing all of this was only a semi-permanent job.
Thanks
Jeff
I don't see why you'd need to do it over. But perhaps you should start a new thread and post some pictures?
Troy
You really don't know what needs replacing till you cut out the bad metal and see whats underneath, much of whats underneath is available today where it wasn't 15 years ago. I was lucky in that only the center area of mine was rusted badly, the one side had an area next to the extension (under the fuel filler tube) that was weakened enough where i didn't want to leave the metal in place. Everything left was solid enough to stand on and shows no light from underneath so i left it as a foundation for the new metal to sit on. You should be able to see the cross brace and frame rails once the bad floor is removed. (as seen in the top photo above) Be careful not to cut thru the cross brace...came close to doing that when i grinded out the center section of the floor, grinder was slicing like butter and didn't want to stop...lol.
Doc says i got tennis elbow so have to give it a rest a few days before i can start the rework of the right side panel and grind the remaining sealant off the rear wheel tubs. I'll be setting up sawhorses and a support brace to mark and drill the holes in the left panel, hopefully by the weekend the arm will feel up to it. The new chrome gas filler tube arrived yesterday, should look good back there once the floor is in place.
Lord Warlock... I just got my chrome filler tube on Monday! It came from eBay! Good choice. ;-)
Rear wheel wells look pretty good. The car is altogether except the rear end and driveshaft. Since that stuff is out, I've been scraping the undercoating off and sand blasting the bottom as is. I can post pictures of that, but should probably start a new thread like Troy said. I just wanted your opinions on this.
When I was scraping the undercoating off the bottom of the trunk pan where it butts up to the inner wheel housing, it pushed through the compromised metal. The housing looks good, the trunk bad. I just want to make sure the trunk floor covers the part that I broke through, or if there's another filler in between?
Jeff
From that spot, the new panel will cover that, it actually has a lip that goes up and over the little bump that the sealer covers, and has a flange on the side that would allow you to spot weld directly to the fenderwell. I'm cutting the flange itself off so i can weld in the channel under where the seam sealer will be reapplied. If you look at the pic i posted earlier this week you can see how the new panel fits around the wheelwell (that flange had already been trimmed before sitting in place).
Personally, i don't mind others doing work on trunks posting in this thread, as i get to see and read more as i work and hopefully avoid pitfalls. The beginning of the thread answers the initial question of who to buy from, was happy with the sale and delivery of the panels, now i'm just faced with the project of putting it in to the best of my ability. If Troy wants a new thread started, I'll be happy to move and post there instead.
Amazing what 1600mg of motrin will do, and an arm brace for tennis elbow :). went out and set the sawhorses up as mentioned before, then couldn't help myself and started trimming the flange edge off the rear edge and right side edge of the right side floor. the measure 3 times before cutting worked out better this time, didn't overcut the bumper support bracket hole, and think i was right on with the trunk lock cage, the right side is now sitting in place in the trunk. Plan to take pictures as it sits before pulling both pieces back out so i can work on the sealant remnants that are still in the way, and then drill the holes i'll be using to weld it in place later. Think i'll follow the advice of screwing the pan in place before beginning to weld. Pics to follow soon.
Thanks for the advice Lord Warlock. I went back in the thread and saw the posts that you were talking about. Unfortunately, I don't have time today to read all of the posts and suggestions, so excuse me for being redundant if I am. Is the two piece trunk the way to go in your opinion?
I plan on having the wheel wells that the trunk floor attaches to, replaced sometime at the end of the year when I do my quarter panels (I want to drive the car this upcoming year and want it to stay looking presentable, no mix-matched colored panels :lol:).
I know what you mean too with the pain. I've raced motocross for the last 15 years, and professionally for the last 3 and have broken more bones than you can imagine. Right now I'm fighting through a broken right shoulder and torn rotator cuff. It's been 3 months since the injury and I'm still in serious pain... but I cannot stay out of the garage for more than a day! :2thumbs: :cheers:
Jeff
You can't install a one piece trunk pan through the trunk opening. You need to remove the tail panel or a big chunk of the quarter. I think I remember someone saying they were able to get it in through the front by removing the braces behind the seat. If you just want to replace the floor section it's probably best to go with the two piece pan.
Troy
Thanks Troy. I did NOT know that. I would have had to either return the pan for a two-piece, or cut it in half! :lol: I'll definitely get the two piece.
Jeff
That's why I got a two piece, to get the pan pieces in the trunk without taking the rear panel off, split into two pieces you can get both into the trunk opening, the middle has a flanged edge for a butt weld, the right side fits on top of the left side. Doesn't make it easier to do the welding though, one side will be easier than the other as i can stand inside the trunk area to weld the left side, the right side i'll have to be inside the trunk sitting on the left side to do the right, not gonna be fun. Will likely do the rear welds first.
Would you know if that two-piece trunk floor that was recommended in this thread comes with those pieces mounted for the gas tank "J-bolts" or do you have to get those separate? And if so... where?
Quote from: MxRacer855 on January 23, 2014, 09:15:34 PM
Would you know if that two-piece trunk floor that was recommended in this thread comes with those pieces mounted for the gas tank "J-bolts" or do you have to get those separate? And if so... where?
No, either you have to remove them from your original floor (which I did, they were in good shape), if you need them AMD makes them. Several vendors carry them.
Jason
Thank you Jason. Does 521 sell them? I looked in the "trunk" section and didn't see them. It's possible that I just overlooked it a handful of times. :lol:
Jeff
Quote from: MxRacer855 on January 25, 2014, 04:02:45 PM
Thank you Jason. Does 521 sell them? I looked in the "trunk" section and didn't see them. It's possible that I just overlooked it a handful of times. :lol:
Jeff
About 1/2 way down this page he shows a 3-piece set, which includes both strap mounts and the cross brace, so I'm assume he sells them seperate, you can contact him to see. http://www.521restorations.com/index.pl?page=bbody&sub1=Trunk
Here is one on ebay from a different vendor, it shows and up close pic, and has the part number listed under 'Item Specifics'. http://www.ebay.com/itm/68-70-Mopar-B-Body-Gas-Tank-Strap-Brace-LH-RH-/350818988082?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51ae70f032&vxp=mtr
Jason
Good call! That's why I missed it. I wasn't looking close enough at the "kit". I'm actually going to replace the trunk brace as well, so it works out perfectly.
Here's another question I have for you, although I'm waiting to replace the quarter panels at a different time to salvage the paint job now so I can drive the car this year, I want to replace as much as I can in the trunk area without damaging them. If you're looking in the trunk, the spots that you see between the trunk floor and the quarter panels are the... trunk floor extensions? They're pretty beat up too and I would like to replace them as well, but I don't know if it's possible without removing or damaging the quarters/wheel wells... And could you guys help me understand what "gutters" do?
You guys are helping me out so much on this trunk project! Thank you!
Jeff
If they are rusted or in bad shape, i'd say replace em, not sure how they come off though, mine were still solid on both sides. Pretty sure they are spot welded to the sides of the trunk floor and probably the rear valence, when i cut the quarter panel off on passenger side behind the wheel, I didn't see a weld to the extensions, but doesn't mean they weren't there. The rear quarter panels go down further than the extensions do.
Got the twisted wire wheel on the grinder and went to town on the leftover sealer around the wheelwells today, you weren't kidding about how messy it would be, looked like a spider went apeshit with webbing everywhere, i was covered in it from head to toe, luckily it vacuums up easy enough. Finished up the trimming on the left over floor panels in the trunk, stripped off the paint, leftover fiberglass resin from earlier repair, and removed all the old rubber drain plugs that hadn't been removed yet. Next step will be drilling the holes in the new sheetmetal pieces, hope to start that tomorrow and remove the e-coating from around the holes and along edges of the panels where i'll be welding, the weather looks like it will be warm enough, although next week looks like another cold spell so its important to get what i can done tomorrow.
Have made arrangements for the headliner to be reinstalled next weekend, then the windshield will go in after that.
The trunk extensions are attached to the bottom flange of the quarters where the quarter turns under the car. It's almost as if you could stick your hand down between the extension and the quarter till it meets that bottom flange. I would guess that on almost all cars, there is not enough room to get anything all the way down that slot except a thin piece of sheet metal (and anything that you happen to drop that you don't want to go down there.. :lol:). It's a prime spot to lose things and to accumulate dirt, etc.
So you should be able to cut it out without ruining the outside paint. How you will weld the new one in without disturbing the paint is another problem.
I see what you're talking about. I just can't win though. :rotz: The bondo they put on the quarter panel is sealing it to the trunk floor extension. I don't see anyway removing the extension without all of the cracking out. Bummer.
Quote from: MxRacer855 on January 25, 2014, 07:31:39 PM
Good call! That's why I missed it. I wasn't looking close enough at the "kit". I'm actually going to replace the trunk brace as well, so it works out perfectly.
Here's another question I have for you, although I'm waiting to replace the quarter panels at a different time to salvage the paint job now so I can drive the car this year, I want to replace as much as I can in the trunk area without damaging them. If you're looking in the trunk, the spots that you see between the trunk floor and the quarter panels are the... trunk floor extensions? They're pretty beat up too and I would like to replace them as well, but I don't know if it's possible without removing or damaging the quarters/wheel wells... And could you guys help me understand what "gutters" do?
You guys are helping me out so much on this trunk project! Thank you!
Jeff
These are the only two pics I got (they aren't that good). Like others said the spot welds will have to be drilled out along the bottom edge of the quarter. On the inside part (where lip of trunk floor and lip of extension are welded together) I simply buzzed through that part with a cut off wheel since I replacing the trunk floor anyways. First pic is the extension removed with floor still in place. Second pic is extension and floor removed. Also note in second pic, I had to trim a couple of inches off the bottom of the inner wheel house. The rest was good and solid, so I just fabbed up my own patch piece and welded in right there.
Jason
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i151/jaak923/68%20DODGE%20CHARGER/IMG_0942_zps70a28505.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/jaak923/media/68%20DODGE%20CHARGER/IMG_0942_zps70a28505.jpg.html)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i151/jaak923/68%20DODGE%20CHARGER/IMG_0963_zps7589cc4d.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/jaak923/media/68%20DODGE%20CHARGER/IMG_0963_zps7589cc4d.jpg.html)
That would explain why I didn't see the welds, when i cut the quarters out I left the edges intact since they were solid and good metal I put in a patch panel in the crusty areas, ground out all the scale and rust that were on the sides of the extension on that side.
Plan came together today, ground the e-coat off the edges of the trunk floor where i'd be welding, drilled the panels so i could weld through the holes to the good metal underneath as well as the frame rails and cross support bar, put the floor in place on the left side, realized a couple holes I drilled weren't quite in the right position as there was no metal under them, drilled a couple extra holes, fit the panel in place again, screwed it in place along the left edge and wheel well area to tighten the pieces together, put C clamps on the right edge, then broke out the welding machine and went to town. The left side floor is now welded in place solidly (removed the c clamps and its on securely). Welded the holes closed. Still have to grind the welds flat again, as most of them formed a cap over the top of the sheetmetal, will have to be careful not to grind too much off and make it come loose again (had that happen with the quarter when i welded it in) Not the prettiest welding job on earth but seam sealer will eventually cover the welds along the left edge and wheelwell and along the rear tail light panel. Not sure how I'll do the center seam without using filler of some sort. May just use seam sealer there also.
Quite pleased with myself, set a goal and exceeded it today, have to grind the welds along the center seam flat so i can start the right side panel next week. Wish i was a better welder and could do it pretty like some of the others here, but more importantly I now have half a trunk again. Have a few pics but they are on my phone camera, will have to move them to photobucket first.
Quote from: Lord Warlock on January 26, 2014, 05:34:42 PM
That would explain why I didn't see the welds, when i cut the quarters out I left the edges intact since they were solid and good metal I put in a patch panel in the crusty areas, ground out all the scale and rust that were on the sides of the extension on that side.
Plan came together today, ground the e-coat off the edges of the trunk floor where i'd be welding, drilled the panels so i could weld through the holes to the good metal underneath as well as the frame rails and cross support bar, put the floor in place on the left side, realized a couple holes I drilled weren't quite in the right position as there was no metal under them, drilled a couple extra holes, fit the panel in place again, screwed it in place along the left edge and wheel well area to tighten the pieces together, put C clamps on the right edge, then broke out the welding machine and went to town. The left side floor is now welded in place solidly (removed the c clamps and its on securely). Welded the holes closed. Still have to grind the welds flat again, as most of them formed a cap over the top of the sheetmetal, will have to be careful not to grind too much off and make it come loose again (had that happen with the quarter when i welded it in) Not the prettiest welding job on earth but seam sealer will eventually cover the welds along the left edge and wheelwell and along the rear tail light panel. Not sure how I'll do the center seam without using filler of some sort. May just use seam sealer there also.
Quite pleased with myself, set a goal and exceeded it today, have to grind the welds along the center seam flat so i can start the right side panel next week. Wish i was a better welder and could do it pretty like some of the others here, but more importantly I now have half a trunk again. Have a few pics but they are on my phone camera, will have to move them to photobucket first.
Sounds like a productive day :2thumbs: About the trunk seam in the middle, some folks grind it down and finish it off with filler to give it a factory one piece look. Since my car is a driver, and will probably have a trunk mat in it anyways, I simply put seam sealer over the seam. I noticed you said you mis-drilled in a couple of spots, what I like to do, is when I get floor pans fitted, I get underneath the car and trace out the frame rails with a magic marker. Then I pull the pans out, flip them over, then have a guide showing me where to drill.
looking forward to seeing some pics!
Jason
The mis drilled spots were along the crossbrace, the pan had an indentation where the ends of the crossbrace fit to the frame rails, and i used that as a reference where to drill holes, and when i laid the drilled pan on half or more of the hole was over the edge of the crossbrace, If I could see any part of the crossbrace underneath I welded to it anyway and built up the plug in the hole till the hole was filled. The single other mis drilled area was next to the extension where i'd cut out close to the edge. That was simply an oops moment, if i'd drilled two inches further along the edge there would have been metal underneath, i found a piece of the floor underneath near one side and filled the hole with the welder, grinding it could make it fall out though so I plan on not grinding those welds much since seam sealer will cover those welds anyway. I plan on globbing it on over that edge similar to the factory did.
The right side has alot more metal undeneath so shouldn't run into problems unless the holes on the crossbrace are wrong. I drilled it after I fitted the other side in so hope I positioned the holes closer to the crossbrace. I'll probably test fit the other side tomorrow or tuesday after i do some minor grinding along the middle seam and remove the screws I used to hold it in palce
Quote from: Lord Warlock on January 26, 2014, 05:34:42 PM
Still have to grind the welds flat again, as most of them formed a cap over the top of the sheetmetal, will have to be careful not to grind too much off and make it come loose again (had that happen with the quarter when i welded it in) Not the prettiest welding job on earth but seam sealer will eventually cover the welds along the left edge and wheelwell and along the rear tail light panel. Not sure how I'll do the center seam without using filler of some sort. May just use seam sealer there also.
Something to consider on grinding you plug welds flat. I've plug welded and later had to take the same part out and grinding the plug welds all the way flat can produce weak welds. Consider grinding down but leaving a small flat "cap" on the weld to increase the weld area. Especially in places that will be unseen for whatever reason. The little hat can be masked by filler, undercoat, sound deading or mats.
Great info guys! And thanks for the pictures Jaak. They were definitely helpful. You said that you ordered your 2-piece trunk floor to your residential address for under $250? 521 gives quotes of $175 for full items, but not for half floors and smaller items. Have any of you ordered smaller ticket stuff from them? I want to order AMD's 2-piece floor tomorrow, but I don't want to pay $175 for shipping...
Jeff
a few shots, not pretty yet. just glad its there.
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/Lord_Warlock/001_zpsd339b2e3.jpg)
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/Lord_Warlock/002_zps0de1c3ca.jpg)
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/Lord_Warlock/003_zpsf4bc609a.jpg)
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/Lord_Warlock/004_zps19e811a2.jpg)
ignore the datestamp, changed batteries and forgot what day it was.
521 sent the two piece floor to the residential address with free shipping off of their ebay store. But the floor cost 392 not 250. Basically was same price as tamraz, but they didn't charge an extra 25.00 to ship to a residential address. Ships by truck freight, huge box. Panels don't look that large in the trunk but they are pretty big.
Good point green, I don't want to grind them flush, just flattened on the top I plan on using a plaid grey trunk mat in any case so the floor is going to be covered anyway. I'll be re primering and painting the trunk after it gets installed, probably after i fix the cutout in the rear valence where i had a small dent next to the corner piece. Already cut the section out, have to replace the metal and weld it in, i'll be able to use the scraps from trimming the floors to fix that next. Have filler, primer and paint leftover from paint job.
Keep in mind, i've used this welder only once before, it isn't pipewelding like i learned on the oil rigs, totally different, and i'm kind of guessing on the settings on the unit. Strangely I didn't warp any panels when welding. Its more like tack welding a section at a time. The rear quarter panel was my first attempt.
Weird hole showing in first pic, upper right hand corner to right of the raised bump, there is a hole that doesn't exist on the factory floor, the spare tire brace would fit just to the left of this hole. Have no clue what its there for, factory drain holes on the top flat part were expected, not sure if i'll even put in the rubber drain plugs in, would have to buy a new set of them anyway.
Quote from: MxRacer855 on January 26, 2014, 08:57:43 PM
Great info guys! And thanks for the pictures Jaak. They were definitely helpful. You said that you ordered your 2-piece trunk floor to your residential address for under $250? 521 gives quotes of $175 for full items, but not for half floors and smaller items. Have any of you ordered smaller ticket stuff from them? I want to order AMD's 2-piece floor tomorrow, but I don't want to pay $175 for shipping...
Jeff
I didn't order my floor pans from 521, I got them from adeals. Those are the 2 vendors I normally like to use for stuff like that. Yes they were 241 shipped, but they are not AMD panels, the are Sherman's. Main difference between Shermans and AMD is 1). All holes (for drain plugs, etc.) are already punched out in AMD panels, in Sherman panels they are not. The 'form' is stamped where holes are supposed to be, and if you want them, you have to use a hole saw and cut them out. 2). Sherman panels are bare metal, AMD has EDP coating on them. I just epoxy primed my floors when I was finished. And 3). Sherman panels are made in the USA.
It basically boils down to what you want to do, some people swear by AMD and think they are the bees knees. I have used AMD parts and I have used Sherman parts..... they both need massaging to fit.... a little hammering here, a little cutting there. I don't think ones really better than the other.
Adeal sells them on there eBay store for 269.99 shipped (for both halves), but like I said, if you buy them directly from their site, It's usually a little cheaper (I assume they ad a little to the price on eBay store to cover ebay fees).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-1970-CHARGER-TRUNK-FLOOR-PAN-2-PC-MADE-IN-USA-FREE-SHIPPING-/121239344987?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ACharger&hash=item1c3a6d975b&vxp=mtr
Good luck,
Jason
I couldn't find the finished pic of my trunk floors (probably still on memory card), but here is a pic of the finished floor pans. I used Sherman's 3/4 length floor pan halves. The rear footwell (right behind front bucket seats) had a little rust too, but I just cut out the rust and made my own patch for that area out of 18 gauge sheet metal.
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i151/jaak923/IMG_0946_zps70f95076.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/jaak923/media/IMG_0946_zps70f95076.jpg.html)
Quote from: Lord Warlock on January 26, 2014, 09:27:20 PM
Keep in mind, i've used this welder only once before, it isn't pipewelding like i learned on the oil rigs, totally different, and i'm kind of guessing on the settings on the unit. Strangely I didn't warp any panels when welding. Its more like tack welding a section at a time. The rear quarter panel was my first attempt.
Thats what I did, just practice and play with the settings/wirespeed. I am in no way a pro welder. I started on the floor pans, I did the passenger side half first. By the time I got to the drivers side, It started looking pretty decent. Like you said its more like tack welding sections at a time, until you 'connect' all the tacks, then check the backside to make sure I had good penetration.
Jason
Ahh, I remember Adeals from earlier in the thread, looked at the panels and was worried about identical halves if they sent it as pictured and went with 521 just to be on safe side, price to me wasn't a concern as i'd already spent 392 on tamraz and they refunded me. Really don't need that many drain holes in the trunk anyway, aint no water getting into my trunk again in any case, only time it will see rain would be on a road trip to a show somewhere, and thats a future thing to worry about. Nice looking floorpan, doing a GL? I had a triple green 69 RT that color at one time, my car is currently using its engine and transmission.
As long as the panels are from this continent i'm fine with them, american made is preferred but will take canadian if i have to. I was lucky in that my original floors were rust free, only had a few pinholes under the heater core.
The big thing I'll recommend to folks, don't be afraid to try and do it yourself if you can, most times you'll find its possible, occasionally you'll fubar something up bad enough to remove and start over, and that could cost a little extra, but when you get done you won't be afraid to try much. Didn't know what i was doing on my first engine swap either, after 3 or 4 you feel pretty confident. After today i'm feeling a lot more confident with the welder than I was with the quarter panel.
Quote from: Lord Warlock on January 26, 2014, 10:14:23 PM
Nice looking floorpan, doing a GL?
Actually in that photo, it's before I got me a gallon of epoxy primer. I had a quart of Red 'Non Sandable' primer in my shop, so I just shot that on the pans after I finished. The lighting really makes it look orange in the pics. As far as GL clone....It's a possibility. For sure the car is going to be orange with tan interior, just don't know if I'm gonna install the decals, etc.
Quote from: Lord Warlock on January 26, 2014, 10:14:23 PM
The big thing I'll recommend to folks, don't be afraid to try and do it yourself if you can, most times you'll find its possible, occasionally you'll fubar something up bad enough to remove and start over, and that could cost a little extra, but when you get done you won't be afraid to try much. Didn't know what i was doing on my first engine swap either, after 3 or 4 you feel pretty confident. After today i'm feeling a lot more confident with the welder than I was with the quarter panel.
Well Said!
Keep up the good work,
Jason
Quote from: Lord Warlock on January 26, 2014, 09:27:20 PM
ignore the datestamp, changed batteries and forgot what day it was.
521 sent the two piece floor to the residential address with free shipping off of their ebay store. But the floor cost 392 not 250. Basically was same price as tamraz, but they didn't charge an extra 25.00 to ship to a residential address. Ships by truck freight, huge box. Panels don't look that large in the trunk but they are pretty big.
Good point green, I don't want to grind them flush, just flattened on the top I plan on using a plaid grey trunk mat in any case so the floor is going to be covered anyway. I'll be re primering and painting the trunk after it gets installed, probably after i fix the cutout in the rear valence where i had a small dent next to the corner piece. Already cut the section out, have to replace the metal and weld it in, i'll be able to use the scraps from trimming the floors to fix that next. Have filler, primer and paint leftover from paint job.
Keep in mind, i've used this welder only once before, it isn't pipewelding like i learned on the oil rigs, totally different, and i'm kind of guessing on the settings on the unit. Strangely I didn't warp any panels when welding. Its more like tack welding a section at a time. The rear quarter panel was my first attempt.
Yeah< I worked in in oil projects for about 15 years. I understand that pipe welding is a big difference that car panel welding. but at least you have some experience. The big diff is that panel welding is so damn fine!! A little diff on the welder settings makes a big diff on the final product. Those that started or grew up on thin sheet metal welding don't know how big a change it is for us!!
Will add next update tomorrow evening if I do the other panel. Weather is supposed to be coooold on wednesday so don't plan on working that day. Garage doesn't have a decent heater, so has to be mid 50s or higher for me to want to work outside much. Can't paint till weather warms over 70 and i'd want it to stay that warm overnight at least so may be late feb or march before I want to take that step, will spot primer welds to cover bare metal.
Thanks for the encouragement. Not stopping till i get it together and running well enough to drive again. Not waiting another year, this will be the year the charger returns to life again. (and the year my last kid leaves the nest to college, too bad she never saw me drive it)
Quote from: jaak on January 26, 2014, 09:50:24 PM
Quote from: MxRacer855 on January 26, 2014, 08:57:43 PM
Great info guys! And thanks for the pictures Jaak. They were definitely helpful. You said that you ordered your 2-piece trunk floor to your residential address for under $250? 521 gives quotes of $175 for full items, but not for half floors and smaller items. Have any of you ordered smaller ticket stuff from them? I want to order AMD's 2-piece floor tomorrow, but I don't want to pay $175 for shipping...
Jeff
I didn't order my floor pans from 521, I got them from adeals. Those are the 2 vendors I normally like to use for stuff like that. Yes they were 241 shipped, but they are not AMD panels, the are Sherman's. Main difference between Shermans and AMD is 1). All holes (for drain plugs, etc.) are already punched out in AMD panels, in Sherman panels they are not. The 'form' is stamped where holes are supposed to be, and if you want them, you have to use a hole saw and cut them out. 2). Sherman panels are bare metal, AMD has EDP coating on them. I just epoxy primed my floors when I was finished. And 3). Sherman panels are made in the USA.
It basically boils down to what you want to do, some people swear by AMD and think they are the bees knees. I have used AMD parts and I have used Sherman parts..... they both need massaging to fit.... a little hammering here, a little cutting there. I don't think ones really better than the other.
Adeal sells them on there eBay store for 269.99 shipped (for both halves), but like I said, if you buy them directly from their site, It's usually a little cheaper (I assume they ad a little to the price on eBay store to cover ebay fees).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-1970-CHARGER-TRUNK-FLOOR-PAN-2-PC-MADE-IN-USA-FREE-SHIPPING-/121239344987?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ACharger&hash=item1c3a6d975b&vxp=mtr
Good luck,
Jason
I couldn't find the finished pic of my trunk floors (probably still on memory card), but here is a pic of the finished floor pans. I used Sherman's 3/4 length floor pan halves. The rear footwell (right behind front bucket seats) had a little rust too, but I just cut out the rust and made my own patch for that area out of 18 gauge sheet metal.
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i151/jaak923/IMG_0946_zps70f95076.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/jaak923/media/IMG_0946_zps70f95076.jpg.html)
Thanks Jason, I think I'll just get the AMD stuff because of the pre-punched holes and coating. It just makes it a lot easier for me who doesn't have the most experience with this stuff. A friend of mine is a pretty good fabricator and is helping me get all of this done. He could easily do it, but time is money. I'm going to call 521 tomorrow and get a quote on all of it shipped to Chicago. I'll let you guys know what they say and we'll keep in touch!
I'll post a few pics of my project as well if you guys are interested. It's actually kind of an unusual way of going about it. Since the rear end, drive shaft, and trans are pulled, I began scraping all of the undercoating off with the car on jack stands. Remember, the care is completely COMPLETE with everything still on it. So When I say I started sand blasting the undercarriage. It's definitely a tough job to keep the sand contained. I'm extremely excited about it though. It's really cleaning up nice. I wish I could have done the rotisserie deal, but I'm sure I'll be able to afford and get there someday. In the meantime, we make due! ;)
Jeff
Weather was pleasantly warm today ( North Florida), and it was expected to cool off tomorrow and wednesday so figured I ought to get what i could done today. Ground down some of the welds, but the discs on the die grinder weren't hacking it and would fray before anything got done, the 4 inch grinder only had a grinding/cut off wheel on it and wasn't doing much so had to take a trip to harbor freight to pick up some more discs of both types including a flap disk sanding wheels in 35 grit, 60 grit and 100 grit (4 inch) and 40 grit and 100 grit of the 2 inch discs for the die grinder (air powered).
Once i got situated, got the welds nearest the middle seam ground down, then placed the 2nd panel in position only to find out there were 4 holes in the wrong place...damn, hate having to fix stuff, but drilled new holes in the right places and welded the cross brace welds and a couple near the frame rail to hold it in place, got those done and then ran out of wire for the welder....another trip to the store for more supplies, spent time replacing the wire spool with size 30 wire which was all that harbor freight had, previous wire was 24 steel wire. Did not opt to finish the welds, instead i climbed inside the trunk area, set the C clamps in hard to reach spots, and then ground down yesterday's welds and today's as well. The 30 grit flap sanding disc works great for what i wanted to do, once most of the weld was ground to buttons, took the 40 grit 2 inch wheels to work them down around the edges and smooth it to the pan, Managed to cut or break the weld on 2 or 3 previous welds so i'll have to redo those tomorrow. Middle seam butt weld lined up pretty well but wasn't perfect as the middle of the floor dips a little bit and it separated by 1/8 or less, I'll just have to fill it with filler later when i cover the seam with filler, still has plenty of overlap and both sides are solidly on.
Won't have pictures to add till i get the rest of the welds done tomorrow or later in the week. But...the big thing is that the car once more has a full trunk floor again and we are one more step in the right direction.
Finished welding in the 2nd half of the trunk yesterday, still have to grind/sand the welds down and then get the seam sealer in, and then prime and paint but the trunk floor is now complete through the welding stage. Was not as hard as I envisioned beforehand. It was too cold to work on anything in the garage today, never got out of the 30s so stayed in the house most of the day. Its supposed to warm up Friday thru the weekend, so hope to make a little progress on it when the temps break 50 or 60.
Quote from: MxRacer855 on January 26, 2014, 08:57:43 PM
Great info guys! And thanks for the pictures Jaak. They were definitely helpful. You said that you ordered your 2-piece trunk floor to your residential address for under $250? 521 gives quotes of $175 for full items, but not for half floors and smaller items. Have any of you ordered smaller ticket stuff from them? I want to order AMD's 2-piece floor tomorrow, but I don't want to pay $175 for shipping...
Jeff
For future reference. I have a mechanic that I use a lot and I asked him if I could ship the AMD stuff to his business and he said no problem. Shipping to a business saves $50. Cost is still $125 but it's better than getting hit by a truck.
I finally have all of the parts to complete my rear end job except trunk floor extensions (I want to replace them without damaging my paint).
As I'm cleaning the trunk floor extensions up looking for the edges... I can't find them. Obviously you can see the full extension birds eye view (looking in the trunk), but how far does it run down the inner quarter panel?
Any ideas?? :shruggy:
Thanks guys.
-Jeff
Trunk floor is done, sealed and primered, just got the gas tank grommet today in the mail so will likely try to install the fill tube tomorrow. Still need to paint the trunk area and should do it before installing the fill tube but i'm eager to get done with the backend stuff. Have to finish a patch panel in the valence panel before i mix up a pint of paint for the trunk.
Can't say how far the extensions run, didn't replace mine.
Quote from: MxRacer855 on February 12, 2014, 08:12:16 PM
I finally have all of the parts to complete my rear end job except trunk floor extensions (I want to replace them without damaging my paint).
As I'm cleaning the trunk floor extensions up looking for the edges... I can't find them. Obviously you can see the full extension birds eye view (looking in the trunk), but how far does it run down the inner quarter panel?
Any ideas?? :shruggy:
Thanks guys.
-Jeff
The trunk floor extension goes all the way to the bottom of the quarter. If you look at the quarter it turns under and forms a short "shelf" the opens into the car. The bottom of the trunk floor extension has a similar shelf that sets on top of the quarter shelf. AMD extensions also have little tabs that stick out and these are to be folded over the quarter then spot welded in place. By the way. the space between the quarter and the extension is a prime place to lose stuff because it's narrow and hard to see or reach into.
The flange to connect up to the main truck floor is just joined up and spot welded (or however you want to do it.) Don't worry about making the floor joint perfect as it is filled/covered with seam sealer.
Sorry I'm responding to this post so late. Thanks for the helpful advice. Hot it taken care of now! :cheers:
Replacing just the trunk floor turned into a HUGE job that I did NOT anticipate.
Here's a list of things replaced with AMD stuff:
Trunk floor, Trunk floor brace (with tank strap hangers), trunk floor extensions, rear crossmember, rear valance, Rear bumper support braces, outer wheel wells, drivers side front and rear quarter panel patches, l/R valance corners, torsion bar cross member... and I think that's about it... :smilielol:
Jeff
Yeah, that happens. These cars rust in between overlapping panels so when one goes bad you have to replace the pieces that mate to it.
Troy
It's definitely NOT what I wanted to get into... but ill be happy I did it when it's done!