Finished the install today. I had a local shop in Surprise, AZ, All About Auto, John Sholtz, do the heavy work for me. He overhauled the A518 core I picked up on Craigslist. It has a 3 wire plug on the tranny, 2 wire tranny's dont have lock up, watch for that. We used a Hughes 11" lock up converter. He did the swap, and then back at home I wired in the automatic overdrive and lock up converter myself. I used pressure switches and the three pin plug from PATC, the switches plumbed in to the pressure port on the passenger side of the tranny. Picked up a B&M throttle position switch, and a generic relay from Summit Racing. Picked up an angle bracket from Ace Hardware to mount the switch. It mounted under the Bouchilon kick down cable bracket perfectly and connects to the throttle linkage. Works well. Relay is mounted to the firewall behind the Distributer (small block).
Basically we had to widen the trans tunnel a little bit to accommodate the wider body of the A518. Just hammered out the sides a little. Not really noticeable inside the car.
Mounted the pressure switches to the tranny before it went up.
Cut the old mount off the cross member and welded in a new plate to hold the tranny, used a cheap tranny mount for a Chevy pickup. It was an easier fit to modify the cross member for the Chevy mount. And the mount bolted right up the bottom of the A518.
Linkage went in with no problems, it is a column shifter, and the Bouchillon kick down cable makes it very simple.
Shortened the drive shaft about 3 ½".
Wired it all in and it works very well.
Pressure switches from PATC mounted to the trans.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/72%20Charger/A518%20overdrive%20installed/IMG_0927.jpg)
The 3 pin plug from PATC plugged in.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/72%20Charger/A518%20overdrive%20installed/IMG_0926.jpg)
Floor hammered out a little. I could go back to the inside and move the floor back out a little. We went just a bit too far I think.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/72%20Charger/A518%20overdrive%20installed/IMG_0928.jpg)
Modified cross member with the Chevy truck trans mount.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/72%20Charger/A518%20overdrive%20installed/IMG_0929.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/72%20Charger/A518%20overdrive%20installed/IMG_0930.jpg)
Throttle linkage with the throttle position switch mouted under the Bouchillon bracket. You can barely see the relay on the firewall.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/72%20Charger/A518%20overdrive%20installed/IMG_0931.jpg)
All fineshed and ready for the test drive.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/72%20Charger/A518%20overdrive%20installed/IMG_0936.jpg)
The test drive. Click on the picture and it will start.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/72%20Charger/A518%20overdrive%20installed/th_MVI_0938.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/72%20Charger/A518%20overdrive%20installed/?action=view¤t=MVI_0938.mp4)
I got some pictures of this 1971 GTX that was in Johns shop. It has a 500" big block, A518 with an ultra bell, paddle shifters, full custom car, high dollar. And, no A/C, in Phoenix! What were they thinking? John has had it for a while ironing out some issues it had. I offered to take it home and do some work on it for him. :yesnod:
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/GTX%20in%20Johns%20shop/IMG_0922.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/GTX%20in%20Johns%20shop/IMG_0912.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/GTX%20in%20Johns%20shop/IMG_0908.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/GTX%20in%20Johns%20shop/IMG_0911.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/GTX%20in%20Johns%20shop/IMG_0909.jpg)
Sweet! I thought about doing an overdrive unit when my 904 went but the aftermarket kits were way too expensive and what little I could find about the A518 swap made it sound a lot tougher than it apparently went for you. The pressure switches are a great idea that needs a little refinement. Perhaps you can make use of the current switch and include an adjustable electronic timer or something to allow you to fine tune a delay into the circuit. Just thinking off the top of my head here and not an electrician!
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/SQUARE-D-Time-Delay-Relay-2DZ01?Pid=search
Regarding the 1st to 2nd issue...perhaps a shift kit would help.
Could you Please post where you sourced the truck tranny mount and exactly what it is. It looks like it fit great. If my 904 doesn't stand up to my new 340 this is definitely the way I want to go. I'd appreciate a few more photos of the tranny mount. Is it just bolted in on each side? Did the A518 bell housing match right up? The mount looks like it was cut and then an pieced of channel fitted to it to adapt to the tranny. Any additional details would be greatly appreciated. I can't believe that you were ticking over at about 2000 rpm at 70mph!
Nice Job Paul. :2thumbs:
Not that I won't always have fond memory's of the TF 727, but after 12,000 miles with the A518 , I can't imagine going back for a street car.
good stuff :2thumbs: , think i seen that roadrunner in a mopar mag a few years back :scratchchin:
Quote from: 64dartgt on August 16, 2011, 07:55:37 AM
Could you Please post where you sourced the truck tranny mount and exactly what it is. It looks like it fit great. If my 904 doesn't stand up to my new 340 this is definitely the way I want to go. I'd appreciate a few more photos of the tranny mount. Is it just bolted in on each side? Did the A518 bell housing match right up? The mount looks like it was cut and then an pieced of channel fitted to it to adapt to the tranny. Any additional details would be greatly appreciated. I can't believe that you were ticking over at about 2000 rpm at 70mph!
The trans mount we used came from O'reilys, part #ANR 2268. It matched the bolt pattern on the trans. Just cut the factory mount off the cross member and welded in a plate to hold the chevy mount.
The A518 uses the standard small block bell housing bolt pattern. Bolted up to the engine with no issues.
We went on a 90 mile trip last Sunday. Half was highway, the other half city driving. The tank was full when we left. Got home with just under 3/4 left. That trip used to use 1/2 the tank. Mileage is better, I can tell how much better next fill up. Used to get around 10 to 12 MPG, 9 when the rear tires are the only ones turning. :D Cruises at 70 around 2300 rpm.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/72%20Charger/A518%20overdrive%20installed/IMG_0914.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/72%20Charger/A518%20overdrive%20installed/IMG_0920.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/72%20Charger/A518%20overdrive%20installed/IMG_0921.jpg)
Thanks for the extra photo! By the way...what are you running for a rear gear ratio?
3.91 gears.
I have been doing some tweeking to the controls for the A518. I didn't like where the OD and LU were coming in at with the line pressure switches I got from PATC. The number on the switch is supposed to be the approximate MPH it switches at. Maybe with a street friendly or cruise gear it would be, with my 3.91 gears it was way off. Found an adjustable pressure switch from Stewart Warner that works well. Part #SWP11489. Got it on Ebay from D&D Instruments for $36.00. Picked up an Agastat timing relay part #VTM1QCD also on Ebay for $9.94. The timer needs a resistor mounted to it to set the required time delay. Very simple to do. I wanted a 500K resistor for about a 5 second delay, Radio Shack had a 470K, close enough. Still need to mount the timer some where safe.
This is a vid of how the car shifts now. Click on it and it will open.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/72%20Charger/A518%20overdrive%20installed/th_MVI_1069.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/88l98vette/72%20Charger/A518%20overdrive%20installed/?action=view¤t=MVI_1069.mp4)
Interesting,is the govenor preasure not about 1 psi per mph?
Quote from: flyinlow on March 04, 2012, 11:39:33 AM
Interesting,is the govenor preasure not about 1 psi per mph?
Cant really say? I had the A518 rebuilt before it was installed. Shifts well, down shifts well. With the switches I had from PATC the actual switching points were about 5 mph over the number on the switch.
From PATC;
NOTE: The way governor pressure works is 1 pound of pressure per square inch equals 1 mile per hour unless someone has changed the tire size, or rear end ratio, or governor springs and weights. The vacuum switch acts as a throttle position sensor and the oil pressure switch acts as a speed sensor.
In my application tire size and gear ratio have changed, that is why I think the PATC switches arent acurate.
looks great
Beautiful job. I have been mulling over attempting the same swap in my 72, would love to have the OD gear without sacrificing much of the ruggedness of my 727 (GV too much $$$).
My only concern is the shifter linkage. I have a slap stick console which I love, but all the 518 swaps I've seen in 3rd gens are either column shift or use an aftermarket cable shifter. Is there enough similarity in gear selector location on the tranny between the 727 and 518 that I'll be able to keep my slap stick? Or will I have to sacrifice it to the overdrive/lockup gods?
Quote from: red79 on March 12, 2012, 08:18:14 AM
Beautiful job. I have been mulling over attempting the same swap in my 72, would love to have the OD gear without sacrificing much of the ruggedness of my 727 (GV too much $$$).
My only concern is the shifter linkage. I have a slap stick console which I love, but all the 518 swaps I've seen in 3rd gens are either column shift or use an aftermarket cable shifter. Is there enough similarity in gear selector location on the tranny between the 727 and 518 that I'll be able to keep my slap stick? Or will I have to sacrifice it to the overdrive/lockup gods?
Shift linkage location on the A518 is the same as the 727. Only problem is getting the trans high enough in the tunnel. It is all the way up tight to the top of the tunnel. Had to hammer out the sides of the tunnel to make room.
Good to know, would love to put some more cruising miles on the interstate without winding up to 3k rpm all the time. If I ever get the chance, hope it comes out half as pretty as yours! :2thumbs:
Did you happen to take any photos of the transmission bracket while you were making it? I feel comfortable with most everything except the rear mount. I just bought a 518 to put on my 440. I'm going the route of the Ultra bell. Your transmission looks good did you paint it?
What mount was used on the GTX?
Quote from: rcannon440 on March 19, 2012, 09:12:33 PM
Did you happen to take any photos of the transmission bracket while you were making it? I feel comfortable with most everything except the rear mount. I just bought a 518 to put on my 440. I'm going the route of the Ultra bell. Your transmission looks good did you paint it?
No pics of making the mount. It was actually a leftover from some other project that worked well on this one. The trans was painted with some gloss gray paint is all. The GTX is using the stock mount just cut off the cross member and a box welded back in the new location to mount it back up to the xmember. Good luck with your install and start a thread when you do it. We love to see it.
Paul, did the GTX have Schumaker tri Y headers?
Quote from: flyinlow on March 20, 2012, 12:50:53 PM
Paul, did the GTX have Schumaker tri Y headers?
I dont know for sure? I have one pic where the right side header collector can be seen, it looks like only two tubes go in to it.
I just finished performing this swap in my 69 Charger and I have a bad pulsating vibration. It's not drivable the way it is, do you think I might have a problem with the pinion angle? I checked it and it seems OK. Did you have any pinion angle issues?
Where is the Video ?
Quote from: rcannon440 on February 23, 2013, 07:52:41 PM
I just finished performing this swap in my 69 Charger and I have a bad pulsating vibration. It's not drivable the way it is, do you think I might have a problem with the pinion angle? I checked it and it seems OK. Did you have any pinion angle issues?
This tends to be a problem with the OD trans swaps. Driveline angles (Without hacking your car's Crossmember to where the tailshaft sits inside your console), and
Did you have the driveshaft balanced? Is it a new one that came pre-balanced? MY own $400.00 5-speed conversion vibrates as well, but I'm running an older driveshaft too that I'm all but Sure isn't balanced for the RPM's it is turning at 70 MPH.
It is critical to have the trans located about 1 1/2" off center to the passenger side. And it has to be high enough to get the pinion angle correct. The pinion angle has to be correct side to side as well as up and down.
Quote from: rcannon440 on February 23, 2013, 07:52:41 PM
I just finished performing this swap in my 69 Charger and I have a bad pulsating vibration. It's not drivable the way it is, do you think I might have a problem with the pinion angle? I checked it and it seems OK. Did you have any pinion angle issues?
What converter did you use and what engine do you have ? Most stock 518 converters are for externally balanced engines, might cause problems with a steel crank big block? Just a thought.
Quote from: flyinlow on February 24, 2013, 08:32:41 PM
Quote from: rcannon440 on February 23, 2013, 07:52:41 PM
I just finished performing this swap in my 69 Charger and I have a bad pulsating vibration. It's not drivable the way it is, do you think I might have a problem with the pinion angle? I checked it and it seems OK. Did you have any pinion angle issues?
What converter did you use and what engine do you have ? Most stock 518 converters are for externally balanced engines, might cause problems with a steel crank big block? Just a thought.
:iagree:
Troy
Converter balance issues will arise based on engine rpm, getting worse with higher rpm. At least that was my experience. Drive line mis alignment, being pinion angle issues, will show up with vehicle speed. Being worse at a certain speed. In my case at 60 to 80 mph being the worst. Again my experience
My swap consists of using the 518 non lockup converter type unit to a 440 using the Ultra Bell bell housing. I used the same converter that was in my 727 and I had my drive shaft shortened and balanced at the same time. I measured the angle at the tail shaft of the transmission to be 3 degrees down and my pinion was at zero degrees. The vibration got worse the faster I drove the car. I then placed a set of 4 degree shims in the rear end because that is what I had on hand. Now I measure 3 degrees down at the tranny and 4.3 degrees up at the pinion and the car now vibrates at lower speeds and smooths out up at speed 50-60 MPH. I have ordered a set of 2 degree shims and I'll see what effect this has. I have cut and boxed in the cross member as much as possible to raise the transmission as much as I could.
Paul, where is the video you mentioned.
I will post more pics of this project
Quote from: ACUDANUT on February 25, 2013, 01:46:20 PM
Paul, where is the video you mentioned.
They are on the first page near the top. Vids are driving the.car watching the tach. I am out of town right now using my smart phone. I cant tell if they are opening?
Nope sorry I don't see it. Mabe I am going blind too. :brickwall:
Nice job. Sounds like it shifts out just right. :2thumbs: I gotta say though, I'd be as nervous as a whore in church if my fuel gauge was as low as yours is in that first video. :o
Quote from: rcannon440 on February 25, 2013, 01:52:17 PM
I will post more pics of this project
I made a plywood template of where the origonal 727 tailshaft was in the tunnel and then tried to locate the 518 as close as I could. (with in a 1/4 ") I cut some of the excess webbing off the 518 tailshaft housing that is used for mounting in trucks, this made it less bulky. My car is a '73 and slightly different then Pauls "72 and your '69 but I used the same rear mount.
The entire drive train on both of my Chargers is offset toward the passenger side about 1 1/2 inch. The tunnel above it is also ,so the transmission and driveshaft should be roughly centered. This could be for steering gear room or to balance the vehicle with just the driver in the car or to give the driver( who is normally paying for the car) more room or some other reason. I did not design the car.
The classic Trans/driveshaft/ pinion relationship is drawn as a stretched out letter Z with the trans tailshaft and the pinion being parallel. Of the four Mopar B body's with auto's I have checked ,I have never had one that was parallel. To do this in my current Chargers I would have to push the tailshaft housing up thru the floor of the car.
I get the tailshaft high as I can, which is acceptable according to my '73 FSM. This gets me as close to parallel as I can get.Then I concentrate on the desireable 4-6* of driveshaft/pinion angle. This is with the car in neutral with the car sitting on it's tires. As the car accelerates the pinion rotates up straightening out the rear u joint under high torque loads and simultaneously pushing the driveshaft forward for maximum spline engagement with the tailshaft. This is the desirable state. Full throttle reverse would cause the opposite to occur and an undesirable state.
The driveshaft angles are dynamic while driving and I think if you are reasonably close it will work. The above setup seams to work for me, vibration and u joint life wise. I have about 20K miles on my 440 /ultrabell/A518 trans. :Twocents:
Quote from: Tilar on February 25, 2013, 07:38:34 PM
Nice job. Sounds like it shifts out just right. :2thumbs: I gotta say though, I'd be as nervous as a whore in church if my fuel gauge was as low as yours is in that first video. :o
LOL not to worry, just give the fuel gage a tap and it goes to the correct reading. I had gas, er...... fuel in the tank.
I would like to know what torque converter was used for your swap? Lock up or non-lockup, If non lock up did you use the torque converter from the 727 or 518? My engine vibrates terrible in park at 2500 rpms now where it didn't before the swap. I used the same 11" torque converter from my 727, this is a non lock up 2 wire 518 transmission I used for the swap.
I used the stock 11 inch lock up converter that was in the 518.. 1994 3500 van /360 engine. I removed the external balance weights from the converter.
I assume you have a steel crank internally balanced 440 and the 727 torque converter was neutrally balanced .. :scratchchin:
Quote from: rcannon440 on March 06, 2013, 09:39:32 PM
I would like to know what torque converter was used for your swap? Lock up or non-lockup, If non lock up did you use the torque converter from the 727 or 518? My engine vibrates terrible in park at 2500 rpms now where it didn't before the swap. I used the same 11" torque converter from my 727, this is a non lock up 2 wire 518 transmission I used for the swap.
I used a brand new lock up style A518 converter with 2500 stahl. The lock up converter is splined differently to fit the A518 with lock up, so you can not interchange them with a non lock up converter. If you are vibrating in park or nuetral it is a rotational balance problem. Are you using the same nuetral balanced flex plate that was on the 440? The converter can be going bad internally causing the vibration. Is it stahling correctly?
Yes my 440 is internally balanced and I'm using the same flex plate and torque convertor, the only difference is the 518 transmission. I finally took it for a drive down the interstate at 65mph and the car ran at around 2000 rpm with the overdrive engaged this part works great like it should I had a steady vibration as long as I had my foot on the gas cruising at 65. The vibration decreased when I would lift off the gas. Also when I gave the car half to 3/4 throttle heavy acceleration the car will vibrate terribly. I wish I had measured the distance between the old 727 and the floor before I removed it to know how close the tail shaft of the 518 should be to the floor. Can anyone out there tell me how close the tail shaft of there 727 is to the floor on a 69 B body?
Thanks
3 inches center of yoke to tunnel above
we are replacing the floor pans but the tunnel is the undesturbed original. 1970 Charger 440/727, think its is the same. Car was a 318 car originally, looks like the right location and the car drives fine. :Twocents:
That maybe part of my problem, mine measures 4 inches from the center of the yoke to the bottom of the floor. This may mean I need to make more room to the cross member to raise the transmission more.