Met the Owner of 1 of 3 1970 Daytona's.
He is from Hays Ks and had a plum crazy 70 Daytona.
You met a guy whose Daytona was constructed by a dealership body shop in 1970. Beautiful car by the way. But not factory.
Why would a dealership "Make a Daytona" when they could not give those cars away, back in 69/70. ?
Quote from: ACUDANUT on April 26, 2017, 06:22:42 PM
Why would a dealership "Make a Daytona" when they could not give those cars away, back in 69/70. ?
They had no problem selling Daytona's .
Jerry owned my car from '80 - '97 and had it in the museum. Nice guy to me when I contacted him about previous ownership.
Quote from: Aero426 on April 26, 2017, 05:07:02 PM
You met a guy whose Daytona was constructed by a dealership body shop in 1970. Beautiful car by the way. But not factory.
Did they change the back window also or just left it as a stock Charger window ?
Quote from: cdr on April 26, 2017, 06:24:41 PM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on April 26, 2017, 06:22:42 PM
Why would a dealership "Make a Daytona" when they could not give those cars away, back in 69/70. ?
They had no problem selling Daytona's .
That can't be true. I have seen adds back in the day where these cars sat and sat (Dodge and Plymouth) for years without buyers.
They had problems moving 1920 Birds off the lots, don't think the 500+ Daytonas was a problem...
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=93735.50
Quote from: nascarxx29 on April 26, 2017, 06:50:11 PM
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=93735.50
Thanks for the link, but why ? :scratchchin:
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/16/70-daytona-urban-legend.html
http://wwnboa.org/70csed.htm
[Driver Side View From Front]
For those of you who don't think such a thing exists, here is proof that there IS a 1970 Charger Daytona! Legend has it that there were three of these cars made, however, I've never known the whereabouts of the other two. This particular machine resides with Jerry Juenemann in Hays, Kansas, where it has spent more than a decade on display in the now defunct Wheels 'N Spokes Museum.
Jerry's In-Violet Daytona was ordered new by Dr. David Jackson of Bethesda, Maryland through Parsons Dodge in Washington, DC, and delivered on February 4, 1970. It started out life at the St. Louis assembly plant as a 1970 Charger R/T SE, heavily optioned with: CRXA leather bucket seats, A33 Track Pak, C16 console, C62 manual adjustable 6-way driver's seat, J46 locking gas cap, J55 undercoating and under hood pad, M05 door edge protectors, M51 sunroof, N85 tach/clock, R22 AM/8-Track and W21 Road wheels. This Charger was also ordered with the 440+6 and 4-speed transmission.
[Engine Compartment]
Added to the list of options was the A11 Daytona Conversion Package which included the nosecone, rear wing, hood pins, special order vinyl roof**, power steering and power disc brakes at an extra cost of $657.15. Strangely, the A11 package does NOT include the Daytona tape stripe, A-pillar mouldings or the special rear window.
Upon close inspection, you can see the lower front fender valance panels appear to be a completely custom-made piece for this conversion, not like a 1969 Daytona's valances. The front wheel well moulding appears to have been made from two pieces of trim, split down near the valance panel seam. Looking under the hood at the latch tray and nosecone attachment, everything looks normal.
The 1970 Daytona's total cost, with a $68 destination charge, was $5,782.20. Not a cheap car in those days!
[Lower Front Fender Valence Area]
There are those who will say this is not a real Daytona, and technically speaking, they might have a point since the 1970 Daytona carries a VIN designation of XS29 (Charger R/T). On the other hand, the factory paperwork clearly states that this car was ordered with and received the Daytona Conversion package and Chrysler called it a Daytona, so I guess it has as much claim to being a Daytona as not. This is one argument that will probably never end......
**It is interesting to note that the factory designated a "special order vinyl roof" for the Daytona Conversion Package, however in the absence of the Charger 500/Daytona style rear window, the vinyl roof that was installed is a standard 1970 Charger piece. This makes one wonder if Chrysler had originally planned to include the rear window modification in the Daytona Conversion and then changed their minds? Or perhaps their special order vinyl roof was designated to accommodate the sunroof?
If anyone knows the whereabouts or has any information about the other two 1970 Charger Daytonas, please E-mail us at hemi@willinet.net with that information! We'll keep you posted with any updates we receive.
NOTE: The Aero Warriors site has information about another of the 1970 Daytonas.
Hey, if Plymouth made 70 Wing cars , Why wouldn't Dodge ? :scratchchin:
Interesting... Does anybody know if Jerry Junneman is still alive/around? Supposedly, he was one of the earliest owners of my Daytona. I would like to contact him and see if he has any old photos of it. I sure would love to see some photos of my Daytona from back in "the day".
Quote from: ACUDANUT on April 26, 2017, 07:00:29 PM
Hey, if Plymouth made 70 Wing cars , Why wouldn't Dodge ? :scratchchin:
Because they did not have to. The 500 Daytonas came to the public so late in the 1969 model year, it was "almost" a 1970 model. Building 500 qualified it to race through the end of 1971.
The Daytona was featured in the 1970 Scat Pack magazine brochure. It was the only car that did not have a "1970" license tag shown.
Quote from: 70 sublime on April 26, 2017, 06:37:48 PM
Quote from: Aero426 on April 26, 2017, 05:07:02 PM
You met a guy whose Daytona was constructed by a dealership body shop in 1970. Beautiful car by the way. But not factory.
Did they change the back window also or just left it as a stock Charger window ?
Stock back glass. No fastback.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on April 26, 2017, 06:54:27 PM
Quote from: nascarxx29 on April 26, 2017, 06:50:11 PM
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=93735.50
Thanks for the link, but why ? :scratchchin: cars on page 3
Quote from: cdr on April 26, 2017, 06:24:41 PM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on April 26, 2017, 06:22:42 PM
Why would a dealership "Make a Daytona" when they could not give those cars away, back in 69/70. ?
They had no problem selling Daytona's .
This is a hard fact! :cheers:
Quote from: Aero426 on April 26, 2017, 07:47:23 PM
Quote from: 70 sublime on April 26, 2017, 06:37:48 PM
Quote from: Aero426 on April 26, 2017, 05:07:02 PM
You met a guy whose Daytona was constructed by a dealership body shop in 1970. Beautiful car by the way. But not factory.
Did they change the back window also or just left it as a stock Charger window ?
Stock back glass. No fastback.
They also forgot the very important "A" pillar trim.
Another thing: A real Daytona would have a 1969 VIN, not 70.
Was this A11 package a dealership package kind of like the MR NORM stuff or is it listed anyplace on a factory option list somewhere ?
Added to the list of options was the A11 Daytona Conversion Package which included the nosecone, rear wing, hood pins, special order vinyl roof**, power steering and power disc brakes at an extra cost of $657.15. Strangely, the A11 package does NOT include the Daytona tape stripe, A-pillar mouldings or the special rear window.
Quote from: Q5XX29 on April 26, 2017, 07:35:38 PM
Interesting... Does anybody know if Jerry Junneman is still alive/around? Supposedly, he was one of the earliest owners of my Daytona. I would like to contact him and see if he has any old photos of it. I sure would love to see some photos of my Daytona from back in "the day".
we love seeing pictures of it from any day. fire up the instamatic and bury us with 'em
Quote from: 70 sublime on April 26, 2017, 06:57:25 PM
http://wwnboa.org/70csed.htm
[Driver Side View From Front]
For those of you who don't think such a thing exists, here is proof that there IS a 1970 Charger Daytona! Legend has it that there were three of these cars made, however, I've never known the whereabouts of the other two. This particular machine resides with Jerry Juenemann in Hays, Kansas, where it has spent more than a decade on display in the now defunct Wheels 'N Spokes Museum.
Jerry's In-Violet Daytona was ordered new by Dr. David Jackson of Bethesda, Maryland through Parsons Dodge in Washington, DC, and delivered on February 4, 1970. It started out life at the St. Louis assembly plant as a 1970 Charger R/T SE, heavily optioned with: CRXA leather bucket seats, A33 Track Pak, C16 console, C62 manual adjustable 6-way driver's seat, J46 locking gas cap, J55 undercoating and under hood pad, M05 door edge protectors, M51 sunroof, N85 tach/clock, R22 AM/8-Track and W21 Road wheels. This Charger was also ordered with the 440+6 and 4-speed transmission.
[Engine Compartment]
Added to the list of options was the A11 Daytona Conversion Package which included the nosecone, rear wing, hood pins, special order vinyl roof**, power steering and power disc brakes at an extra cost of $657.15. Strangely, the A11 package does NOT include the Daytona tape stripe, A-pillar mouldings or the special rear window.
Upon close inspection, you can see the lower front fender valance panels appear to be a completely custom-made piece for this conversion, not like a 1969 Daytona's valances. The front wheel well moulding appears to have been made from two pieces of trim, split down near the valance panel seam. Looking under the hood at the latch tray and nosecone attachment, everything looks normal.
The 1970 Daytona's total cost, with a $68 destination charge, was $5,782.20. Not a cheap car in those days!
[Lower Front Fender Valence Area]
There are those who will say this is not a real Daytona, and technically speaking, they might have a point since the 1970 Daytona carries a VIN designation of XS29 (Charger R/T). On the other hand, the factory paperwork clearly states that this car was ordered with and received the Daytona Conversion package and Chrysler called it a Daytona, so I guess it has as much claim to being a Daytona as not. This is one argument that will probably never end......
**It is interesting to note that the factory designated a "special order vinyl roof" for the Daytona Conversion Package, however in the absence of the Charger 500/Daytona style rear window, the vinyl roof that was installed is a standard 1970 Charger piece. This makes one wonder if Chrysler had originally planned to include the rear window modification in the Daytona Conversion and then changed their minds? Or perhaps their special order vinyl roof was designated to accommodate the sunroof?
If anyone knows the whereabouts or has any information about the other two 1970 Charger Daytonas, please E-mail us at hemi@willinet.net with that information! We'll keep you posted with any updates we receive.
NOTE: The Aero Warriors site has information about another of the 1970 Daytonas.
It's not a factory sun roof car either. The window sticker used to say on bottom... ADD SUNROOF - ADD DAYTONA CONVERSION PACKAGE.. Car was delivered as a R/T to the dealership and taken down the street to a shop and converted. Also it was illegal for Chrysler to assy vacuum headlights after Dec 31, 1969. This car has a scheduled production date of 02-04-70. Dealer converted car. The guy who had the car converted was named Dr. Jackson. He had stated that they contacted Bob McCurry (Dodge General Manager) to get a Daytona and that is how he was able to get a 70 Daytona. I talked to Bob McCurry about this car and he said NEVER happened. He went on about the 70 Charger headlight system and the Daytona's vacuum system and how they were completely different and they just would of not done it because of the liability.. Amazing that the GM of Dodge remembered that after 35 years. But he is right. Talk to Bill Haigh (facebook) about the other 2 1970 Daytona clones. I can't find the page on the web about his findings. Good stuff.
Found it.. http://www.hemibill.com/article/index.htm
Fact or fiction. :scratchchin:
By definition, A "Daytona" consists of a fastback rear glass, "A" pillar trim, nosecone, wing and supports and the fender scoops. :Twocents:
Quote from: ACUDANUT on April 26, 2017, 07:00:29 PM
Hey, if Plymouth made 70 Wing cars , Why wouldn't Dodge ? :scratchchin:
The 5-year rule... I believe it was for 5 years.. Anyways, once a car was "qualified" to run, it was good for 5 years. ( Doug, correct me if I'm wrong ).. Since the Daytona was already good-to-go for the '69 season ( really late '69 season ), there was no need to build any in 1970.......
Quote from: hemi68charger on April 27, 2017, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on April 26, 2017, 07:00:29 PM
Hey, if Plymouth made 70 Wing cars , Why wouldn't Dodge ? :scratchchin:
The 5-year rule... I believe it was for 5 years.. Anyways, once a car was "qualified" to run, it was good for 5 years. ( Doug, correct me if I'm wrong ).. Since the Daytona was already good-to-go for the '69 season ( really late '69 season ), there was no need to build any in 1970.......
Correct idea. It was a three year rule. So 1969 models were legal through the end of 1971. Had the aero wars continued, there could have been a new car to take over.
Quote from: odcics2 on April 27, 2017, 08:47:15 AM
By definition, A "Daytona" consists of a fastback rear glass, "A" pillar trim, nosecone, wing and supports and the fender scoops. :Twocents:
Says who?.... :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 27, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on April 27, 2017, 08:47:15 AM
By definition, A "Daytona" consists of a fastback rear glass, "A" pillar trim, nosecone, wing and supports and the fender scoops. :Twocents:
Says who?.... :icon_smile_big:
Ironically enough, that car isn't a Daytona either, it is a McBurnie-converted Vette! :-P
Ben
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 27, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on April 27, 2017, 08:47:15 AM
By definition, A "Daytona" consists of a fastback rear glass, "A" pillar trim, nosecone, wing and supports and the fender scoops. :Twocents:
Says who?.... :icon_smile_big:
DODGE CHARGER Daytona, wise guy! :lol: :cheers:
Quote from: Aero426 on April 27, 2017, 12:47:44 PM
Quote from: hemi68charger on April 27, 2017, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on April 26, 2017, 07:00:29 PM
Hey, if Plymouth made 70 Wing cars , Why wouldn't Dodge ? :scratchchin:
The 5-year rule... I believe it was for 5 years.. Anyways, once a car was "qualified" to run, it was good for 5 years. ( Doug, correct me if I'm wrong ).. Since the Daytona was already good-to-go for the '69 season ( really late '69 season ), there was no need to build any in 1970.......
Correct idea. It was a three year rule. So 1969 models were legal through the end of 1971. Had the aero wars continued, there could have been a new car to take over.
Side note: The 3 year rule for model eligibility was stretched to 4 for Richard Petty's benefit from 1974 to 1977 allowing him to run his 74 Charger. The following year they went back to the 3 year rule which saw him try the Magnum and then turn to GM for the remainder of his career. So Nascar has been monkeying with the rules (for the good of the show) forever. It has just picked up the pace in recent times.
Quote from: odcics2 on April 27, 2017, 07:43:30 PM
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 27, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on April 27, 2017, 08:47:15 AM
By definition, A "Daytona" consists of a fastback rear glass, "A" pillar trim, nosecone, wing and supports and the fender scoops. :Twocents:
Says who?.... :icon_smile_big:
DODGE CHARGER Daytona, wise guy! :lol: :cheers:
Uhhhhh....like this "DODGE CHARGER Daytona" :scratchchin:
Quote from: held1823 on April 26, 2017, 10:11:12 PM
Quote from: Q5XX29 on April 26, 2017, 07:35:38 PM
Interesting... Does anybody know if Jerry Junneman is still alive/around? Supposedly, he was one of the earliest owners of my Daytona. I would like to contact him and see if he has any old photos of it. I sure would love to see some photos of my Daytona from back in "the day".
we love seeing pictures of it from any day. fire up the instamatic and bury us with 'em
Ok, here are a few:
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/wbrunner/IMG_0843_zpsrvyjohr1.jpg) (http://s988.photobucket.com/user/wbrunner/media/IMG_0843_zpsrvyjohr1.jpg.html)
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/wbrunner/IMG_0844_zps4gqlpatf.jpg) (http://s988.photobucket.com/user/wbrunner/media/IMG_0844_zps4gqlpatf.jpg.html)
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/wbrunner/IMG_0567_zpsxprhsmxv.jpg) (http://s988.photobucket.com/user/wbrunner/media/IMG_0567_zpsxprhsmxv.jpg.html)
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/wbrunner/IMG_0836_zpsisru68le.jpg) (http://s988.photobucket.com/user/wbrunner/media/IMG_0836_zpsisru68le.jpg.html)
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 27, 2017, 08:56:29 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on April 27, 2017, 07:43:30 PM
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 27, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on April 27, 2017, 08:47:15 AM
By definition, A "Daytona" consists of a fastback rear glass, "A" pillar trim, nosecone, wing and supports and the fender scoops. :Twocents:
Says who?.... :icon_smile_big:
DODGE CHARGER Daytona, wise guy! :lol: :cheers:
Uhhhhh....like this "DODGE CHARGER Daytona" :scratchchin:
That's not a Charger... And I better say 1969.
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 27, 2017, 08:56:29 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on April 27, 2017, 07:43:30 PM
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 27, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on April 27, 2017, 08:47:15 AM
By definition, A "Daytona" consists of a fastback rear glass, "A" pillar trim, nosecone, wing and supports and the fender scoops. :Twocents:
Says who?.... :icon_smile_big:
DODGE CHARGER Daytona, wise guy! :lol: :cheers:
Uhhhhh....like this "DODGE CHARGER Daytona" :scratchchin:
Well, Chrysler did called those 90's models "Charger Daytonas"
Nope. Those "G" body cars were Dodge Daytonas.
Maybe you are thinking of the L body Dodge Charger, previously called Omni 024 ? :shruggy:
Quote from: odcics2 on April 28, 2017, 07:45:16 AM
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 27, 2017, 08:56:29 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on April 27, 2017, 07:43:30 PM
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 27, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on April 27, 2017, 08:47:15 AM
By definition, A "Daytona" consists of a fastback rear glass, "A" pillar trim, nosecone, wing and supports and the fender scoops. :Twocents:
Says who?.... :icon_smile_big:
DODGE CHARGER Daytona, wise guy! :lol: :cheers:
Uhhhhh....like this "DODGE CHARGER Daytona" :scratchchin:
That's not a Charger... And I better say 1969.
Ok, so...1969 model, flush rear plug, nosecone, fender scoops, wing and accoutrements, and A pillar trim, that's a "Daytona".....hmmmm?
I'll even include "factory sanctioned/authorized".....so where dose this "monkey wrench" fit in the scheme of " Daytona definitions"... :scratchchin: :nana: :icon_smile_big:
....
Quote from: odcics2 on April 28, 2017, 01:26:16 PM
Nope. Those "G" body cars were Dodge Daytonas.
Maybe you are thinking of the L body Dodge Charger, previously called Omni 024 ? :shruggy:
Forgot these "beauties" from the 70's... :scratchchin: :nana:
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 28, 2017, 02:00:27 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on April 28, 2017, 07:45:16 AM
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 27, 2017, 08:56:29 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on April 27, 2017, 07:43:30 PM
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 27, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on April 27, 2017, 08:47:15 AM
By definition, A "Daytona" consists of a fastback rear glass, "A" pillar trim, nosecone, wing and supports and the fender scoops. :Twocents:
Says who?.... :icon_smile_big:
DODGE CHARGER Daytona, wise guy! :lol: :cheers:
Uhhhhh....like this "DODGE CHARGER Daytona" :scratchchin:
That's not a Charger... And I better say 1969.
Ok, so...1969 model, flush rear plug, nosecone, fender scoops, wing and accoutrements, and A pillar trim, that's a "Daytona".....hmmmm?
I'll even include "factory sanctioned/authorized".....so where dose this "monkey wrench" fit in the scheme of " Daytona definitions"... :scratchchin: :nana: :icon_smile_big:
Mock ups aren't allowed! :pity:
The verbiage about "plastic parts" is funny! :smilielol:
Quote from: odcics2 on April 28, 2017, 02:27:50 PM
Mock ups aren't allowed! :pity:
There's goes the"neighborhood"...guess this is out of the picture as well, just another "mock up"... :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 28, 2017, 04:09:44 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on April 28, 2017, 02:27:50 PM
Mock ups aren't allowed! :pity:
There's goes the"neighborhood"...guess this is out of the picture as well, just another "mock up"... :icon_smile_big:
Mules are ok, lol.... :lol:
Quote from: odcics2 on April 28, 2017, 07:05:33 PM
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 28, 2017, 04:09:44 PM
Quote from: odcics2 on April 28, 2017, 02:27:50 PM
Mock ups aren't allowed! :pity:
There's goes the"neighborhood"...guess this is out of the picture as well, just another "mock up"... :icon_smile_big:
Mules are ok, lol.... :lol:
Ahhhh, but nobody can "poke this bear"... ;D
I drove this Daytona the other day.
note the plate
:popcrn:
Quote from: A383Wing on April 29, 2017, 04:02:02 PM
note the plate
:popcrn:
Yes?.... A Michigan Dealer plate 1969 could have little to no bearing on anything?, but did you note the "lot / holding area" it's parked in? :scratchchin:
Quote from: A383Wing on April 29, 2017, 04:02:02 PM
note the plate
:popcrn:
....how bout some color from 1969, early 70 :icon_smile_cool:
Jerry Pudders around my Buddy Jerry Strickers place in Gardner Kansas now his passion is restoring little honda motorcycles
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 29, 2017, 04:56:55 PM
Quote from: A383Wing on April 29, 2017, 04:02:02 PM
note the plate
:popcrn:
....how bout some color from 1969, early 70 :icon_smile_cool:
Yeah, my shoes, my thumb and my color original photo! (yes, I still have it!)
Both pics with me holding the large photo were taken at the WPC Museum by John Pappas.
The black and white 8x11 pics of the car you find on the 'net were in a folder clearly marked "McCurrys Daytona",
yet Bob denied knowing anything about it. I bought the stuff from Harry Casebeer, when he was retiring from Chrysler in the late 80s.
He was a pack rat and saved many pics from getting trashed in the 1979 GREAT PURGE at Chrysler of info and parts.
Any guesses where the color pic was taken? :shruggy:
Quote from: odcics2 on April 30, 2017, 05:54:11 AM
Any guesses where the color pic was taken? :shruggy:
Hamtramck Assembly plant, I was told this was the "yard" where Executive, Press Photo, Road Test, and other assorted "off-line" vehicles where held pending their use, the photos are supposedly dated Feb 1970, you would/should be able to confirm that time date Greg...
As far as MuCurry's (Dodge General Manager at the time) involvement or ownership, who knows? it's easy to speculate/assume based on the folder with the 4 B&W photos with his name across it that it may have been his personal car?, but by the time he was interviewed about this many decades had passed, and I'm sure the man has seen many more cars/projects than all of us combined, so to remember a particular car and time period is probably daunting after many decades, when I was doing the photo shoot and magazine article for MCG on my replica build of the "Mellon", the editors Emailed me the past articles and initial interview drafts/photos/etc of the "70 Daytona's fact or fiction" installments, McCurry's several interview/draft follow ups were of interest as he stated he had no memory of any 70 Daytonas being built, particularly of the Green car, or of the photos when shown, but several interviews earlier he also stated when asked if he ever had/owned a personal Daytona, which he stated "no", yet when asked the same question again in a follow up interview he said he had a "personal" Daytona, and he "believed" it was red, when pressed if it might have been green he became upset why MCG was pursuing a connection between him and the green 70 (maybe he was a green car hater :rofl:) No disrespect, but I take the McCurry interviews with a grain of salt due to the large lapse in time, his memory recall, and his possible mental/health state at the time of the interviews, he did pass shortly (2006) after the articles made press in late 2004 into early 2005
My research into the car followed it into being present at several ISCA shows in the late 69 early 70 season accompanying the Dodge "What's new for 70" factory displays of new car models, and a Mr Norms dealer display at various events over the US, I was given a "mystery" photo several years ago of the vehicle at the Michigan Career Institute which led to some uninformed often absurd conclusions by some individuals as to why the vehicle was there, but several years later while researching another project, I purchased off Ebay a vintage ISCA program brochure that surprisingly and unknowingly had more photos of ISCA events hosted by the Michigan Career Institute and connected the 70 Daytona with further photos to the Dodge displays and the previous mystery photo I was given many years ago...I left the trail cold many, years ago, as I lost interest in pursuing the Mellon's origin, as it's just a vehicle/machine/toy to enjoy regardless of who/what/where/why/etc it was created or used for, Interest is always there if more info or the actual vehicle/parts ever surface, you never know?
A few accounts of the car were seen at Dodge Main Executive parking lot from December 69 to late Feb 1970 by Andy D'Agostino former Chrysler employee who oversaw the transportation of several Chrysler show/press/road test vehicles as well as the RTS Caravan cars/displays, after that it fell off the radar never to be seen again...just like the B5 70 Daytona
Mike
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 30, 2017, 12:23:43 PM
A few accounts of the car were seen at Dodge Main Executive parking lot from December 69 to late Feb 1970 by Andy D'Agostino former Chrysler employee who oversaw the transportation of several Chrysler show/press/road test vehicles as well as the RTS Caravan cars/displays, after that it fell off the radar never to be seen again...just like the B5 70 Daytona
Mike
Andy Agosta was the guy in charge of transporting show cars. I know Andy. He was the guy that also took the Baker #6 Show Car to all the auto shows during the time it was supposedly racing on the track! Can't be in two places at the same time. Cotton had two other Daytonas he raced during 1970. Hmm, wonder where they went? :shruggy:
Quote from: odcics2 on April 30, 2017, 06:08:46 PM
Quote from: DAY CLONA on April 30, 2017, 12:23:43 PM
A few accounts of the car were seen at Dodge Main Executive parking lot from December 69 to late Feb 1970 by Andy D'Agostino former Chrysler employee who oversaw the transportation of several Chrysler show/press/road test vehicles as well as the RTS Caravan cars/displays, after that it fell off the radar never to be seen again...just like the B5 70 Daytona
Mike
Andy Agosta was the guy in charge of transporting show cars. I know Andy. He was the guy that also took the Baker #6 Show Car to all the auto shows during the time it was supposedly racing on the track! Can't be in two places at the same time. Cotton had two other Daytonas he raced during 1970. Hmm, wonder where they went? :shruggy:
Ahhh...Agosta, I thought it was D' Agostino, ....old age strikes again!
I don't have a dog in this fight but I've been an OEM auto Manufacturer's rep for 32 years. And I'll only share perspective NOT a definitive answer. Misbuilt units were reasonably common back in the day as were "unique" cars where unexpected combinations of Powertrain and/or trim levels. However, one thing that has remained consistent is warranty. Manufacturer's have to ensure that warranty requirements and specs are documented i.e. The warranty policy manual So in light of that considered the following
IF it was intended to sell a 1970 Daytona, every Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge dealer in the nation would have gotten warranty coverage instructions regardless of whether they ever sold one or not. Since all three brands were authorized to do cross brand warranty repairs. Thus, a search of old warranty documents or repair shop manuals could shine light on this discussion.
Next consider parts supply. Again under warranty laws Manufacturer's have to maintain a supply of parts for the duration of the warranty period and I believe current law says for 10 years post production. I suspect but don't know if there was similar requirements in 1970 (I'm guessing a shorter time period). So.... parts ordering guides would have been model year specific. Thus, finding an old dealer parts catalog from 1970 or even 1971 should show 1970 Charger Daytona parts availability
Finally, consider dealer parts inventory. Some dealers would have stocked replacement parts (others got stuck when the parts were returned by a body shop - "the insurance company totaled the vehicle" and Manufacturer's do not accept body part returns. So consider WHAT do you do with a Daytona nose and wing in your inventory (regardless of HOW they got there)?
The new odds are highly likely you sell a conversion kit, leveraging several market factors. 1) a successful 1969 NASCAR season 2) Plymouth's having a wing car to sell and a Dodge dealer not haveing one - "Hey, you don't need to by a Plymouth. I can get you a 1970 Daytona with our conversion kit". 3) Dealers want to get rid of dead parts inventory because that results represents frozen capital
Considered the anecdotal window sticker with "conversion" language - and was that it known by anymore of the story - I would instantly view this as a "dealer added item" NOT a factory original
Finally, if there were legal issues involved with safety related items, like the headlights, there is ZERO chance they build something in violation of the law as they would not even allowed forbidden parts and systems to be in the plant And even if you presume Creative did the install (taking it out of the plant environment) Chrysler would have issued a safety recall to modify the lights. Reference the Kelsey Hayes wheels. The liability to allow an "unsafe" car in the road is astronomical.
To me, the lack of paper trail is more damning evidence for it NOT being a factory car than for one. Conversations, for or against, don't count for much
When all is same and done people still believe in what they want to believe. Like unicorns that poop icecream
Quote from: rainbow4jd on May 02, 2017, 08:02:01 PM
I don't have a dog in this fight but I've been an OEM auto Manufacturer's rep for 32 years. And I'll only share perspective NOT a definitive answer. Misbuilt units were reasonably common back in the day as were "unique" cars where unexpected combinations of Powertrain and/or trim levels. However, one thing that has remained consistent is warranty. Manufacturer's have to ensure that warranty requirements and specs are documented ............................
All fine and dandy if your talking standard production, but I think of the few 70 Daytonas built (3), regardless of when, why, for whom, or whatever reason fall into the same category that many of the factory/dealer built showcars fit/fall into, there was never any intention to go in to production, merely just the creation or continuation of a model, be it a one off styling exercise, or an extremely limited "production/offering" of a handful of models regardless of the source that built/supplied them
Most are hung up on the "validation" of the "1970" built cars, they don't fit the "conformity" that most need to accept them, and if you think the factory wouldn't build and/or authorize a one off vehicle or several for that matter that didn't conform to Federal Safety standards, and then sell them to the public, just look at the number of the Rapid Transit System factory authorized/built showcars that made it to private hands and street use
But at the end of the day, they're just machines, modes of conveyance, to be enjoyed for what they are, and what they do.... nothing more, nothing less
That is what Jerry told me. There were 3 70 Daytona's built.
Quote from: ACUDANUT on May 03, 2017, 12:43:10 AM
That is what Jerry told me. There were 3 70 Daytona's built.
I saw this in an article on Creative Industries recently too
Quote from: ACUDANUT on May 03, 2017, 12:43:10 AM
That is what Jerry told me. There were 3 70 Daytona's built.
Actually, and more accurately, there were 3 1970 Dodge Chargers that were modified in 1970 to somewhat resemble a 1969 Daytona. (sans plug & some "A" trim)
In the simplest form, they (be it 3, 15, or any other number after the fact) were the first "Daytona" clones. This building of a "replica" after the fact continues even today. Thanks to Mike for helping guys with parts to continue this tradition! :2thumbs:
Quote from: rainbow4jd on May 02, 2017, 08:02:01 PM
Next consider parts supply. Again under warranty laws Manufacturer's have to maintain a supply of parts for the duration of the warranty period and I believe current law says for 10 years post production. I suspect but don't know if there was similar requirements in 1970 (I'm guessing a shorter time period). So.... parts ordering guides would have been model year specific. Thus, finding an old dealer parts catalog from 1970 or even 1971 should show 1970 Charger Daytona parts availability
there is not or has there even been a Law in the USA that OEM have to supply parts other than emissions for warranty, There is no 10 year rule, Heck the Ford GT some parts were discontinued before the car hit lots, OEMs only have to supply emission parts nothing else
Its the law here (UK)....ten years min...but most go well beyond that. But I've no idea who would inforce it if the car manufacturers did not play ball! Some auto based Qango of a council in a dimly lit room somewhere no doubt!!! LOL!
Quote from: warmpancakes on May 03, 2017, 07:42:01 AM
Quote from: rainbow4jd on May 02, 2017, 08:02:01 PM
Next consider parts supply. Again under warranty laws Manufacturer's have to maintain a supply of parts for the duration of the warranty period and I believe current law says for 10 years post production. I suspect but don't know if there was similar requirements in 1970 (I'm guessing a shorter time period). So.... parts ordering guides would have been model year specific. Thus, finding an old dealer parts catalog from 1970 or even 1971 should show 1970 Charger Daytona parts availability
there is not or has there even been a Law in the USA that OEM have to supply parts other than emissions for warranty, There is no 10 year rule, Heck the Ford GT some parts were discontinued before the car hit lots, OEMs only have to supply emission parts nothing else
Actually there is a Federal statute that manufacturers are "obligated" to maintain collision parts for a minimum of 5 or 7 yrs if a vehicle has a warranty, I believe it was 3 initially (I don't know if it's still an active statute?), although it isn't really enforced, IIRC it came about in 67 or 69, some NORS wingcar parts were continued up to 1974, in fact the replacement Z bar that was offered as a collision substitute from 72-74 that has no lower reinforcement rib or angled depression, and is basically devoid of any "detail" was listed ironically as a "crash bar" by description in the Mopar Collision manual
The Emission parts supply requirement came about by 1972
Quote
there is not or has there even been a Law in the USA that OEM have to supply parts other than emissions for warranty, There is no 10 year rule, Heck the Ford GT some parts were discontinued before the car hit lots, OEMs only have to supply emission parts nothing else
we spent many a day running service parts by the thousands at the Chrysler plant i worked for. these parts were indeed banked for availability long after the vehicle was out of production
Found by simply asking Mr. Google:
"Parts"
A consequence is that vehicle manufacturers must be able to provide parts during the term of a warranty (if any) made at the time of sale. They need not make or stock these parts themselves.
Vehicle makers could choose not to do so, but then they would be required to provide a replacement vehicle or a full refund of the vehicle cost. In practice it is usually more cost effective for makers to procure replacement parts to effect a warranty repair.
A further consequence is therefore that replacement parts are also available to people who do not have a warranty claim.
Bottom line - Parts need to made or available during the warranty period. Any smart auto maker will make whatever parts they can sell for profit, beyond that. It's a business case.
Where would every car maker store piles of parts for every model they made for 10 years? :shruggy:
Quote from: odcics2 on May 03, 2017, 07:26:45 AM
Quote from: ACUDANUT on May 03, 2017, 12:43:10 AM
That is what Jerry told me. There were 3 70 Daytona's built.
Actually, and more accurately, there were 3 1970 Dodge Chargers that were modified in 1970 to somewhat resemble a 1969 Daytona. (sans plug & some "A" trim)
In the simplest form, they (be it 3, 15, or any other number after the fact) were the first "Daytona" clones. This building of a "replica" after the fact continues even today. Thanks to Mike for helping guys with parts to continue this tradition! :2thumbs:
Back to the thread, after getting side tracked. :2thumbs:
Quote from: odcics2 on May 04, 2017, 05:29:42 AM
Found by simply asking Mr. Google:
"Parts"
A consequence is that vehicle manufacturers must be able to provide parts during the term of a warranty (if any) made at the time of sale. They need not make or stock these parts themselves.
Vehicle makers could choose not to do so, but then they would be required to provide a replacement vehicle or a full refund of the vehicle cost. In practice it is usually more cost effective for makers to procure replacement parts to effect a warranty repair.
A further consequence is therefore that replacement parts are also available to people who do not have a warranty claim.
Bottom line - Parts need to made or available during the warranty period. Any smart auto maker will make whatever parts they can sell for profit, beyond that. It's a business case.
Where would every car maker store piles of parts for every model they made for 10 years? :shruggy:
They don't.......they make them/have them in batches as they need them. No one would seriously suggest that anyone would try and guess how many of a certain part they might need over the next ten years and make them all in one go!!! You can buy brand new genuine VW Golf parts going right back to the Mk 1 of the 70s...all have current production dates on....easy to see on plastic parts. And I'm sure many other makers are the same. The ten year law applies here so not just in the warranty period. Don't forget that many/most parts are not even by VW or whoever (when I worked with VW there were over a 100 parts suppliers to the factory...prob more now)....so as long as that plastic moulding company (or whoever) keeps the CAD design or the mould or template, they can make more parts whenever the manufacturer needs them.
Sorry odcics2.....BOT !!
The set up fee for dies can cost more than the parts themselves... Especially large sheetmetal parts.
So, guess you'd store the dies or molds for 10 years? Certainly, re-tooling every time you need parts isn't the way to go. :Twocents:
Daytona specific sheet metal has been difficult since the early days of the cars. It doesn't make any sense for anything but a one time run with some extra service parts figured in.
Oh, you want a replacement rear window plug? If you need one of those, you have bigger problems.
You want a nose assembly in 1973? The car would get totaled, or if you couldn't find a nose, they'd put a 70 Charger clip on it.
You ever hear of someone filing suit against Chrysler because they couldn't get a nose for their super special 500 unit limited edition car? I didn't think so. :lol:
Some of you may know Dick Padovini.
He told me that he saw NOS Daytona nose cones being crushed for tax write offs in 1979.
He was right there with cash in hand and couldn't buy one. :'(
Quote from: Aero426 on May 04, 2017, 05:32:17 PM
Daytona specific sheet metal has been difficult since the early days of the cars. It doesn't make any sense for anything but a one time run with some extra service parts figured in.
Oh, you want a replacement rear window plug? If you need one of those, you have bigger problems.
You want a nose assembly in 1973? The car would get totaled, or if you couldn't find a nose, they'd put a 70 Charger clip on it.
You ever hear of someone filing suit against Chrysler because they couldn't get a nose for their super special 500 unit limited edition car? I didn't think so. :lol:
Agreed, vehicles of a special nature/purpose whether a warranty was in effect or not were given no consideration for future parts availability and or service, the automotive manufacturer's estimated life expectancy was on average 3 years for the majority of regular production vehicles...
If getting wingcar service parts was a chore even back in the day, imagine the dauntless task of finding components for the 68 Hurst Super Stock HEMI Darts/Cudas back in the day
i was personally involved in the manufacturing of non production-line parts for Chrysler corporation vehicles at the new castle machining and forge plant. we did this for practically every suspension part produced at the plant. i know the total numbers banked varied depending upon a specific part's risk of failure, as well as the popularity of the specific vehicle(s) that part was intended for. i do not recall a specific time period (3, 5, 10 years, etc) being part of the requirement for any particular part, although the service part production total for lower front control arms for LH bodies was astronomical for 1998-early 1999 models, due to a sealing failure of the lube-for-life ball joint. the assemble line for these LCA modules was down this main aisle on the right. LCAs were packed for one of three specific uses- production, warranty, and service. warranty parts were packed into steel boxes like the ones seen in this photo, rather than the molded plastic dunnage that production line components were shipped in. once enough parts were produced for the warranty issue, thousands of additional parts were produced and packed in steel boxes (like the warranty ones), but with ridiculous amounts of VCI paper placed over, under, and around every possible surface. these particular parts were destined for storage, necessitating the use of the rust barrier paper
chrysler procured the vast majority of its parts from outside vendors, each of which may well have set their own policy regarding how many (if any) parts to build for future use, but i know for a fact that this Chrysler plant produced them for exactly that purpose. find one with blue paint dabs (third shift color) and it's likely to have passed though my hands.
not for a 70 Daytona or any muscle car ad on there lot .But found dealer ad for parsons dodge 1970 newspaper http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae240/Wingcars69/18274855_10207236189422326_6383971553626965315_n_zpsyklixzpg.jpg
I'm actually digging the discussion on parts supply chain more than whether the "3" 1970s are "real or not".
That being said, thanks to Held1823 on his detail on the stock pile of production parts for warranty purposes. I was going to jump in on the "predicted failure" calculation, but he beat me to it. IF you have a warranty, a manufacturer has to be able to meet the terms of the warranty for its stated time period. If they can't its pretty bad - like VW falsifying emissions kind of bad. You basically would have to buy the car back from the customer and probably pay damages and some attorney fees. Post warranty, the laws may be muddy - but from a practical standpoint - you can buy the vehicle from the customer at a fair market value (and again pay damages and some attorney fees) because you know you will lose in court if it goes that far.
Back to the Topic
I realize a few vehicles are non-conformists (like Turbine Chryslers) that "in theory" could escape the factory. But (my opinion only) I think its far, far, far more of a stretch in belief to ignore the most likely and common scenarios than the far-fetched "what ifs"
1969 Daytona was an "aero car" - clearly the 1970 Daytona is not (no back glass does hell with the aerodynamics) - so at best its an appearance package (unless you argue "mock up", "prototype").
Dodge dealers had access to 1969 "conversion" materials - noses, etc. etc. that would require NOT to have the vehicle shipped to Creative before dealer delivery.
Dodge dealers did not have a vehicle to sell and compete with the Superbird. They probably wanted one!
Dodge dealers could "sell" a converted car because those have VINS and MSOs - AND THAT IS THE KEY IMO - prototypes don't get sold through dealers, they get sold out the back door of the factory. OR, might get sold at a "factory auction" at the very best as a USED car. The reason they don't get sold as new is a) new vehicle warranty and b) they are usually put together with bailing wire and twine ; probably don't meet safety rules - which is a a really, really big deal. Dealers don't want to deal with them - from both a hassle and a liability standpoint.
So, just to my ears alone - even the "Doctor Story" (the guy who wanted one) is a Dealer Conversion. For Chrysler to undertake the money to create "one offs" at the factory - versus a Chrysler exec calling their dealer buddy and saying "Hey, could you fix up a Daytona for a friend of mine?" just doesn't make financial sense. (PS I have have personally made "buddy" calls all the time. "Hey, if you can.... I'll make sure you get allocated a couple of XXXXX vehicles out of the Regional Manager's pool to help you cover the costs")
Anyway - I'm not here to throw stones at anybody's unicorn. I'm still convinced I saw two elves out of the corner of my eye when I was about 7 years old.
Were there 1970 Daytonas built. No.
Were at least three 1970 Chargers converted to appear somewhat like a 1969 Daytona? Yes.
Will we ever really know the complete story.....? Perceptions and opinions are what we are left with........
Quote from: rainbow4jd on May 08, 2017, 05:19:12 PM
I'm actually digging the discussion on parts supply chain more than whether the "3" 1970s are "real or not".
That being said, thanks to Held1823 on his detail on the stock pile of production parts for warranty purposes. I was going to jump in on the "predicted failure" calculation, but he beat me to it. IF you have a warranty, a manufacturer has to be able to meet the terms of the warranty for its stated time period. If they can't its pretty bad - like VW falsifying emissions kind of bad. You basically would have to buy the car back from the customer and probably pay damages and some attorney fees. Post warranty, the laws may be muddy - but from a practical standpoint - you can buy the vehicle from the customer at a fair market value (and again pay damages and some attorney fees) because you know you will lose in court if it goes that far.
Back to the Topic
I realize a few vehicles are non-conformists (like Turbine Chryslers) that "in theory" could escape the factory. But (my opinion only) I think its far, far, far more of a stretch in belief to ignore the most likely and common scenarios than the far-fetched "what ifs"
1969 Daytona was an "aero car" - clearly the 1970 Daytona is not (no back glass does hell with the aerodynamics) - so at best its an appearance package (unless you argue "mock up", "prototype").
Dodge dealers had access to 1969 "conversion" materials - noses, etc. etc. that would require NOT to have the vehicle shipped to Creative before dealer delivery.
Dodge dealers did not have a vehicle to sell and compete with the Superbird. They probably wanted one!
Dodge dealers could "sell" a converted car because those have VINS and MSOs - AND THAT IS THE KEY IMO - prototypes don't get sold through dealers, they get sold out the back door of the factory. OR, might get sold at a "factory auction" at the very best as a USED car. The reason they don't get sold as new is a) new vehicle warranty and b) they are usually put together with bailing wire and twine ; probably don't meet safety rules - which is a a really, really big deal. Dealers don't want to deal with them - from both a hassle and a liability standpoint.
So, just to my ears alone - even the "Doctor Story" (the guy who wanted one) is a Dealer Conversion. For Chrysler to undertake the money to create "one offs" at the factory - versus a Chrysler exec calling their dealer buddy and saying "Hey, could you fix up a Daytona for a friend of mine?" just doesn't make financial sense. (PS I have have personally made "buddy" calls all the time. "Hey, if you can.... I'll make sure you get allocated a couple of XXXXX vehicles out of the Regional Manager's pool to help you cover the costs")
Anyway - I'm not here to throw stones at anybody's unicorn. I'm still convinced I saw two elves out of the corner of my eye when I was about 7 years old.
I agree 100%. If a unicorn does exist it will have to come with all the right documents to back it up. So far none have presented themselves.
Dave
Quote from: odcics2 on May 08, 2017, 06:19:22 PM
Were there 1970 Daytonas built. No.
Were at least three 1970 Chargers converted to appear somewhat like a 1969 Daytona? Yes.
I agree with what we know of as of today. Its weird that nothing has really surfaced on the Watermelon car. It would be neat to hear the story behind it.
Dave
No 70 Daytona's have surfaced because NONE were built.. I even showed Bob McCurry a photo of the watermelon car and said that his name was on the folder that the photo was in. He said he never saw it or knew anything about it and that they never built a 70 Daytona in his garage or any other plant.. Oddics, was it Andy Agusta that McCurry used to send down to the Plymouth showrooms with Dodge Scat Pack stickers and put them on the Plymouth's? I can't remember if that was Andy he had do that. McCurry told me a few stories about Andy. He really liked him. I used to give McCurry the Scat Pack Stickers every now and then to put on his new Lexus's he got twice a year.
Quote from: C5X DAYTONA on May 09, 2017, 02:01:56 PM
No 70 Daytona's have surfaced because NONE were built.. I even showed Bob McCurry a photo of the watermelon car and said that his name was on the folder that the photo was in. He said he never saw it or knew anything about it and that they never built a 70 Daytona in his garage or any other plant.. Oddics, was it Andy Agusta that McCurry used to send down to the Plymouth showrooms with Dodge Scat Pack stickers and put them on the Plymouth's? I can't remember if that was Andy he had do that. McCurry told me a few stories about Andy. He really liked him. I used to give McCurry the Scat Pack Stickers every now and then to put on his new Lexus's he got twice a year.
I was going to say something about old geezers and their memories - until I......
Sorry, I forgot what I was going to say. OH, I just remembered! I'm an old geezer. :lol:
Quote from: rainbow4jd on May 10, 2017, 05:45:09 PM
Quote from: C5X DAYTONA on May 09, 2017, 02:01:56 PM
No 70 Daytona's have surfaced because NONE were built.. I even showed Bob McCurry a photo of the watermelon car and said that his name was on the folder that the photo was in. He said he never saw it or knew anything about it and that they never built a 70 Daytona in his garage or any other plant.. Oddics, was it Andy Agusta that McCurry used to send down to the Plymouth showrooms with Dodge Scat Pack stickers and put them on the Plymouth's? I can't remember if that was Andy he had do that. McCurry told me a few stories about Andy. He really liked him. I used to give McCurry the Scat Pack Stickers every now and then to put on his new Lexus's he got twice a year.
I was going to say something about old geezers and their memories - until I......
Sorry, I forgot what I was going to say. OH, I just remembered! I'm an old geezer. :lol:
HA-HA. But referring to Bob McCurry. He was sharp as a tack. Last I visited with him about 5 months before he passed.
This purple '70 Charger has been researched and investigated several times and is a '70 R/T 6-pack car converted by a body shop, by direction of the buyer through the dealership, to look like a Daytona with a sunroof. PERIOD!! All the documentation Jerry received with the car was proven to be fake/fabricated, i.e. the window sticker, data tag, build sheet, microfiche copies, etc. What we do know is it is an actual R/T six pack car and would be a very nice car to own regardless!
Quote from: C5X DAYTONA on May 09, 2017, 02:01:56 PM
No 70 Daytona's have surfaced because NONE were built.. I even showed Bob McCurry a photo of the watermelon car and said that his name was on the folder that the photo was in. He said he never saw it or knew anything about it and that they never built a 70 Daytona in his garage or any other plant.. Oddics, was it Andy Agusta that McCurry used to send down to the Plymouth showrooms with Dodge Scat Pack stickers and put them on the Plymouth's? I can't remember if that was Andy he had do that. McCurry told me a few stories about Andy. He really liked him. I used to give McCurry the Scat Pack Stickers every now and then to put on his new Lexus's he got twice a year.
Sorry for the delayed answer - Yes, it was Andy Agosta. Same guy that was in charge of the #6 Show Car Daytona. He took it to shows around the country during the time it was supposedly racing! :smilielol:
Cotton Owens had 2 Daytonas during 1970, and the Showcar #6 was NOT one of them. NEVER HAPPENED.
About that folder - I saw it in person. The tab stated: "McCurry's Daytona". The black and white pics of the "watermelon" car were in the folder. Obviously, a converted 1970 R/T.
YES! I love it when an old interesting thread like this gets burped back up to the top! :icon_smile_big:
Any chance the pics in post# 32 on page 2 can be fixed?
Quote from: Charger_Fan on January 24, 2018, 01:01:47 PM
YES! I love it when an old interesting thread like this gets burped back up to the top! :icon_smile_big:
Any chance the pics in post# 32 on page 2 can be fixed?
I was thinking the same thing.
It is a good read. I wonder who owns the purple 1970 Daytona now?
Dave
I was at the Chrysler Proving Grounds and was told it was an original 70 Daytona. At that time I had a 69 R4 Daytona and had restored another Daytona so I was fairly versed on what was correct and not. It was purple with a vinyl top and sun roof but the first thing I noticed was the front side marker was the original that the 70 Charger has and none on the valance. I felt the inside of the valance and it was smooth with no welding marks or distortion of the valance being doctored. I looked under the valance as best I could and it looked legit. If it was a fake they went to a lot of trouble to make the valance smooth inside and out. You have to remember back then a restoration was a slick paint job without all the paint dobs and runs in the correct areas. Back when I saw this car why go to all the trouble to fake a Daytona when you could buy one fairly reasonable. That's my two cents
Quote from: 1969Dodge on April 03, 2020, 04:54:11 PM
Back when I saw this car why go to all the trouble to fake a Daytona when you could buy one fairly reasonable. That's my two cents
If you wanted a Daytona in purple and loaded up with options and a sunroof, the only way would be to build one. This car was built long after the Creative Industries cars. It is also possible there were some leftover "race" valances without the extra stamping operation.
Another old one I'm dragging up.
I'm now back home in Hays after a 3 decade leave.
JJ used to have a place off Toulon Rd with a warehouse out back. That's where he kept the cars he didn't sell from WnS.
Does he still own it?
If so I can contact him to check it's status. I seen that car a million times and back then it was just another car, lol.
I tried to post pix I took of it but I'm apparently behind times, lol.
Also, I remember reading a Jackson letter where he said he was headed to Creative to pick it up.
If it's still local, I'd interview that narcissist JJ for my you tube channel, lol.