Hella h4 or HID

[flyinlow]

I have put sealed beam halogen headlights in my 73 and a 100 amp alt. The lights are better than the originals, but I would still like better. Was thinking about Hella lamps with H4/H1 bulbs or going with HID's.

Anyone running the HID's have any comments?

Are the HID's full brightness when first turned on? Do the ballasts work in cold weather? Do they blind the other drivers?

[471_Magnum]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure none of the HID conversions have photometrics that meet DOT/FMVSS or ECE requirements.

Good quality H1/H4 conversions are ECE spec. Cheap ones aren't. I've used the Hellas in the past. I'm currently running Deltas on my Roadrunner. Given the choice again, I'd probably run Hellas.

Get something DOT or ECE compliant. Oncoming drivers will appreciate it.

HIDs take a second or so to achieve full illumination. Not really a problem on low beams, but problematic on high beams.

[flyinlow]

By photometrics do you mean where the beam is focused?  I want more light ,but if I blind the oncoming drivers it won't work. I have heard about beam cut offs , not sure how that is accomplished.

[471_Magnum]

By photometrics do you mean where the beam is focused?

Photometrics is how the light is distributed. Wikipedia has some pretty good information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_headlamp

[Nacho-RT74]

honestly after drive HIDs on a buddy's car ( not a classic though ) I stick with my sealed beams halogens.

plus, I hate HIDs specially on the car coming up to me 

[flyinlow]

I put Siverstar Plus headlights on the El Camino and they work very well. Two large rectangular headlights. They are not available in the 5 3/4 round four headlight size unfortunately.

[471_Magnum]

This should go without saying, but if you haven't already done so, install relays bypassing the factory switches and bulkhead connector. This modification alone greatly increases to voltage to the headlamps improving light output significantly. It's pretty much mandatory when stepping up from sealed beams. The subject has been covered here and in other forums many times. Just do a search.

[Bob T]

I changed out the old candle power stockers to semi sealed type ( made in India would you believe )  and got uprated halogen /xenon? type lamps from a local Auto Electrical place. These lamps are a newer type ( out here at least ) that offer more output but still only draw similar current to the OEM ones , so they dont require the installation of extra relays which is a Win in my book.

Lamp part numbers are
Phillips H4 12342 VP 12v 60/55w E1 Made in Germany  $44.00
Phillips H1 12258 VP 12v 55w U E1 Made in Germany  $42.00

Huge improvement from the originals, likely there will be better ones out there but these worked for me.

[flyinlow]

Ended up putting Hella lamps with Silverstar Ultra H3 bulbs and running them thru relays. Much brighter,whiter light.  Had my son drive past, no blinding glare to the other drivers. Very good pedestian and road sign illumination.
Might switch the high beams in the future, might use HID's there.

Thanks for the replys.

[bill440rt]

I have HID's in my '69 which I purchased from member here autodynamics.
I also have Hella housings & H4 bulbs in my '68 Charger.

The H4's are very good, but the HID's are awesome. 
VERY bright light, there's no need even for hi-beams really. I am very pleased with the HID's.

[flyinlow]

I had heard and read about the glare issues with HID's . Have you ever driven past your  Charger and looked into the HID's?  Seams like the cars that come with them have some sort of auto leveling and a beam cut off on the low beams.  If they aren't bad I might still go with the HID's and put the Silverstars in the high beams and just use the high beam filament.
I live on a hilly two lane country road, so I don't want to blind the other guy.

[471_Magnum]

DOT/FMVSS and ECE have very stringent requirements for glare and light output. The vast majority of the HID kits are marketed "for off highway use only" because they do not meet these requirements. Lamps will have the E-code or FMVSS marking on the lens if they are certified.

HID capsules can not be retrofitted to halogen lamps and meet these requirements. HID arc light is very different from an incandescent filament source and requires HID-specific optics to be properly focused.

[2Gunz]

As far as Im aware all after market HID's and kits are illegal.

However if you do a nice job  (real projector housing and clean cut-offs)  the police will most likely leave you alone.

[barefootmat]

ok i keep hearing all this about H.I.D.s being illegal what about mr. angery's 68 charger?

[TexasStroker]

Ended up putting Hella lamps with Silverstar Ultra H3 bulbs and running them thru relays. Much brighter,whiter light.  Had my son drive past, no blinding glare to the other drivers. Very good pedestian and road sign illumination.
Might switch the high beams in the future, might use HID's there.

Thanks for the replys.

That's what I did with the Duster.  It is amazing how dim the old sealed beams are.  I'd love to go HID, but haven't found a kit that I can justify, plus as unlikely as it is I really like to see stuff like this before buying.  I think there was a thread not to long ago about it and then there is an older one where 1 or 2 members posted up shots of their HIDs at night...can't remember if the kits were dot or not, but it looked good.  I figure if I can see cattle in the road at night and I don't get flashed by on-coming traffic that things must not be too bad.

[Cooperman]

Mine are regular Hella style halogen lamps from ebay. Standard 60/65w bulbs and relayed for switch preservation and max intensity. Much better than HIDs in my humble opinion... 

[64dartgt]

Ended up putting Hella lamps with Silverstar Ultra H3 bulbs and running them thru relays. Much brighter,whiter light.  Had my son drive past, no blinding glare to the other drivers. Very good pedestian and road sign illumination.
Might switch the high beams in the future, might use HID's there.

Thanks for the replys.

Am interested in this upgrade.  Are the relays required?  Where in the circuit do they go and what relays did you use?

Thanks,

Bob

[flyinlow]

Relays are not required with the H4 because they draw the same power as the sealed beam, but a good idea.

I tested the voltage at the headlight pigtail with the lights on vs the voltage at my charging post (trunk mounted battery). There was about one volt of drop going thru the dashwiring ,headlight switch,dimmer,etc. I jumpered them direct and the voltage then  matched and you could detect an increase in brightness.

I will be running four relays each with a 30 amp fuse. One relay for each lowbeam, one for both outboard highbeams, and one for both inboard highbeams. I will have redundancy with either the low or high beams on ,always having two relays running . Factory headlight switches have fast acting circuit breakers to reset the lights in a fast flashing manner  if there is a short in the headlight circuit to prevent total loss of lighting. I think the redundency in important. The original headlight switch and dimmer with still work to control the relays. I will add a momentary push to flash switch for the high beams for passing. I have the relays but this is still on my to do list.

Less current inside the car and more current to the headlights. I do not know if the 1 volt drop is from age or if it was always there.   

[471_Magnum]

Relays are not required with the H4 because they draw the same power as the sealed beam, but a good idea.

Unless you've got new wiring and new switches, relays are almost a requirement. 40 year old switches and connectors are on borrowed time due to the arcing and carbon build-up. If you drive your car at night, install relays. Factory wiring was barely adequate when new.

[64dartgt]

No kidding on the factory wiring.  There was a minor melt-down when I bought it that I had to bypass and I should take the advice of many and disconnect the ammeter completely.  I have to take the cluster out to change some bulbs and will take a look at it then.

Once again, any particular relay and where?

Thanks,

bob

[471_Magnum]

I use 40 amp relays, one for highbeam, one for lowbeam. Feed them off the alternator through a fusible link. I use 12 ga wire with a 14 ga link.

Using a new/repro harness, I mount the relays under the battery try and splice into the harness. I use the old upstream wiring for triggering the relays. I feed power through the old wiring down stream.

If my wire harness were not newer and in good shape, I'd run new wire from the relays to the lamps and upsize it.

By running direct from the alternator, you take the current load off the amp gauge as well as all the other wiring (as long as the alternator is charging anyway).

[64dartgt]

Thanks!