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Author Topic: Prices are all over the place  (Read 1061 times)
boss429kiwi
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« on: August 05, 2019, 09:00:13 PM »

Hi

I am looking at marketing my Superbird 440/6 4 speed, buckets, Tor Red.

So decided to undertake some investigation on recent sales a gauge a value. I find the sales are all over the place and for the life of me I don't know why.
Yes, I understand that these cars need to be viewed, but still:

$357.5K
https://www.mecum.com/lots/AZ0319-374585/1970-plymouth-superbird/

$165K
https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0719-377993/1970-plymouth-superbird/
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NEW ZEALAND (aka Paradise)
1973 De Tomaso Pantera GTS widebody
1970 Superbird, 6pack, 4 speed, Tor-Red, Buckets, restored by Julius
1970 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed, calypso Coral, white shaker
1970 Boss 429 KK2457, Concours, Calypso Coral (SOLD)
1957 Chevy truck, big rear window, ocean green, STOCK!.....nice!
ACUDANUT
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2019, 07:34:13 AM »

 Shoot for the moon. Ask a crazy price and see who bites.  Either way, I bet you will double/triple your money for what you paid for it. Cheers.
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Aero426
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2019, 08:52:06 AM »

Shoot for the moon. Ask a crazy price and see who bites.  

And keep it forever. 

It is tough to base a valuation solely on auctions.    What auction was it?    What day and time did the car run?     We never know who was in the room driving the bidding.   Clearly that $350k car is an outlier.

Have to think that an excellent 6-bbl 4-spd Bird is still under $200k to sell.   
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Birdflu
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2019, 09:19:55 AM »

A person needs to come up with an average or median price for these cars. As Doug stated, I believe the possibility of outliers is much greater at a 'dog and pony' show auction house. Time of day, amount of alcohol involved or quite frankly having more $$$ than brains in a lot of cases greatly play a part in the final hammer price of these cars. Guys, feel free to chime in, but I think the following is kind of where these cars are at...

U code: $120-140K range
V code: $165-185K range
R code: Well North of $200K

Thoughts???
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Aero426
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2019, 10:12:17 AM »

There was an interesting article in one the magazines I get that had to do with pricing.   It was written by a well known appraiser.    The gist of it was that when setting a price for a car, what is the objective?

Do you have a car that needs to be sold very quickly?     Do you have another car in mind to purchase that you will need to act on ASAP?

Can you afford to price your car at or near top retail and wait for a sale?

Are you selling a car that you know little about on behalf of an estate?  

Things have been riding high in the USA right now.   Will the economy take a crap in another year?    

There were more scenarios, but you get the idea.  
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bannedbird
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2019, 04:22:11 PM »


U code: $120-140K range
V code: $165-185K range
R code: Well North of $200K


Good estimates there. Don't forget to add the level of documentation and numbers matching to the formula (or even when making an estimated price list).  Is it a correct date codes but not original motor? Or the original number motor but not restored?  You get the idea: when we post a price (guestimate) we should note if numbers matching or not (among other things).  Or, I think someone recently did a post with "add percentage of XX% if numbers matching".  Thx.

And, yes, buyers can be cash heavy and head light: auction/booze or not.
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- Superbird Steve - Chicago
1970 A13 E86 D32 B5 H2XW w/GIII, ITB, 6L85
1964 Salon
rainbow4jd
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2019, 06:03:15 PM »

What you wrote and how you wrote  it makes a difference

Rotisserie is not a quality measured.   For example, I am restoring my car to “Concours” level, (if I’m able) which implies the highest level     Ie.  Paint and body are flawless.  All original, NOS, or correct reproduction parts down to the details of what kinds of bolts and screws if known.   A better restoration will draw out those with the biggest dollars.   So the financial difference between superior and excellent is s bigger gap than between excellent and good

The next thing is eye appeal which is in the eye of the “beholder”.    If there’s only one beholder at an auction the bids are low.  If there’s two beholders prices will rise

So...  do the highest level of restoration you can do and put your car in the place with the most money

And yes, I know I’m saying “restore it better than it was built”.   For me, I’ve become less purist and more investor once the value got so high I couldn’t drive the thing without fear.   I was much happier with my non matching numbers grade 2 cuda

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gtx6970
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2019, 06:28:46 PM »

A person needs to come up with an average or median price for these cars. As Doug stated, I believe the possibility of outliers is much greater at a 'dog and pony' show auction house. Time of day, amount of alcohol involved or quite frankly having more $$$ than brains in a lot of cases greatly play a part in the final hammer price of these cars. Guys, feel free to chime in, but I think the following is kind of where these cars are at...

U code: $120-140K range
V code: $165-185K range
R code: Well North of $200K

Thoughts???

I think your pretty close. Keeping in mind . color can drive  a price range up or down. Same goes for bench seat versus buckets, white or black interior , 4spd versus auto, etc etc etc
IMO numbers power train doesn't make as much difference on the wing cars simply due to supply versus demand.
And again, see above for variables.

IMO , I still think a person  can get a pretty nice / well done V code car and stay under $200K

And to think there was a time I turned down 2 different v code cars ( 1 limelight 1 Vitamin C )  . I could have had either car for less than $4000. Probably could have bought them both for $7000 , $7500 tops

I bought a 1969 hemi Roadrunner  for $3500 instead
The wing cars just never really popped my buttons, to this day they still dont. I would much rather have a convertible or hemi car
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426HemiChick
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« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2019, 08:17:25 PM »

A person needs to come up with an average or median price for these cars. As Doug stated, I believe the possibility of outliers is much greater at a 'dog and pony' show auction house. Time of day, amount of alcohol involved or quite frankly having more $$$ than brains in a lot of cases greatly play a part in the final hammer price of these cars. Guys, feel free to chime in, but I think the following is kind of where these cars are at...

U code: $120-140K range
V code: $165-185K range
R code: Well North of $200K

Thoughts???

I think your pretty close. Keeping in mind . color can drive  a price range up or down. Same goes for bench seat versus buckets, white or black interior , 4spd versus auto, etc etc etc
IMO numbers power train doesn't make as much difference on the wing cars simply due to supply versus demand.
And again, see above for variables.

IMO , I still think a person  can get a pretty nice / well done V code car and stay under $200K

And to think there was a time I turned down 2 different v code cars ( 1 limelight 1 Vitamin C )  . I could have had either car for less than $4000. Probably could have bought them both for $7000 , $7500 tops

I bought a 1969 hemi Roadrunner  for $3500 instead
The wing cars just never really popped my buttons, to this day they still dont. I would much rather have a convertible or hemi car


Hi ,                                  06 August 2019

In my opinion the Dodge Charger's of 1968 - 1970 design are the most beautiful cars to ever roll down an assembly line. They have a timeless beauty.

The stuff rolling off the assembly-lines these days all look like overstuffed potatoes. The only thing different is the corporate ID Badge they glue on the front and rear; the size of the badge is used to distinguish the front from the rear.

It's a shame we have come to this state of affairs in the automotive world. Look at NASCAR. Everyone drives the same pos with a different marque to ID the company that's putting up the $$$Buck$$$.

I like our Daytona, Super Bee and Road Runner.

Best Always,

426 Hemi Chix=cks


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Veteran - US Navy - Female - Cars we Own = 69 Hemi Daytona, 68 Hemi RR, 69 440 Six-Pack, 87 Mustang P94, Cars owned = 70 Hemi Cuda 4-Spd, 75 440 W200 Power Wagon
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bannedbird
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2019, 05:27:52 PM »

What about prices on Superbird clones? Last year or so a nice one with metal 'Bird parts sold over $50K.

Here is a nice one for $32K.
https://usclassifieds4all.com/details.php?id=9488&utm_source=Trovit&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=premium

So, although not real, what do you all think a VERY NICE clone would peak out at?  Assume the buyer is not aware the difference between fiberglass or NOS parts.  At some high dollar number the buyer has to consider putting that money to a real bird.


* main clone.jpg (187.99 KB, 800x600 - viewed 319 times.)
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- Superbird Steve - Chicago
1970 A13 E86 D32 B5 H2XW w/GIII, ITB, 6L85
1964 Salon
cudavic
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« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2019, 07:28:18 AM »

What about prices on Superbird clones? Last year or so a nice one with metal 'Bird parts sold over $50K.

Here is a nice one for $32K.
https://usclassifieds4all.com/details.php?id=9488&utm_source=Trovit&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=premium

So, although not real, what do you all think a VERY NICE clone would peak out at?  Assume the buyer is not aware the difference between fiberglass or NOS parts.  At some high dollar number the buyer has to consider putting that money to a real bird.

I have serious doubts on the price of that clone Superbird as if you search the website you will see four real Superbird's all of which are priced well below market value.
I don't understand why someone would purposely misrepresent cars at a low price other than to take advantage of some unsuspecting individual.
Link below to the search results.

https://usclassifieds4all.com/list.php?term=Superbird&c=1

 


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rainbow4jd
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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2019, 04:52:18 PM »

What about prices on Superbird clones? Last year or so a nice one with metal 'Bird parts sold over $50K.

Here is a nice one for $32K.
https://usclassifieds4all.com/details.php?id=9488&utm_source=Trovit&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=premium

So, although not real, what do you all think a VERY NICE clone would peak out at?  Assume the buyer is not aware the difference between fiberglass or NOS parts.  At some high dollar number the buyer has to consider putting that money to a real bird.

i'm generally of the opinion that a clone bird brings little more than the value of the donor vehicle.     Top notch RR or Coronet is going to be $50K if it's all numbers matching, 4 speed, etc. etc. and of a superior level restoration.    Most folks that I see with Clones have done decent restorations, and then modified them to Birds, so they're under $40K

For me alone - If I'm going to spend 40K, I'll just do a 1969 Charger, Coronet, or Road Runner/GTX up right and enjoy it
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426HemiChick
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2019, 03:17:13 PM »

Hi Folks,                             11 August 2019

Education time:

Need some enlightenment; what do U, R, V, code mean? It seems I have only seen this relative to SuperBird's and not Daytona's.

I'm going to take a stab at it:

U = Hemi
V = 440 6-BBL
R = 440 4-BBL

My ignorance is showing. Thanks in advance for fixing my thinking.

Best Always

426 Hemi Chicks
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Veteran - US Navy - Female - Cars we Own = 69 Hemi Daytona, 68 Hemi RR, 69 440 Six-Pack, 87 Mustang P94, Cars owned = 70 Hemi Cuda 4-Spd, 75 440 W200 Power Wagon
 LEO (Cop) - Pilot - Friend of a Coyote - Mechanic - Arborist, rigger, climber, sawyer - Programmer - Engineer Multi Discipline - IT Management Consultant - Friend -Bum, Bumett
Semi Retired - Still Enjoy Being a Kid, Refuse to Grow UP
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bannedbird
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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2019, 03:24:58 PM »

1969 engine codes in the VIN changed in 1970. 

1970 codes used on 'Bird:

U = 440-4bbl
V = 440-6bbl
R = 426

If you have a lowly 440 "R-code" bird, please let me know (off-line that is. We wouldn't want anyone to know you had a non-hemi wing car in your collection - hehehe).
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- Superbird Steve - Chicago
1970 A13 E86 D32 B5 H2XW w/GIII, ITB, 6L85
1964 Salon
held1823
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« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2019, 03:26:26 PM »

Quote
I'm going to take a stab at it:
U = Hemi
V = 440 6-BBL
R = 440 4-BBL


close,    u = 440,  r = hemi

for 1969, these were L and J
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ernie helderbrand - 409053
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« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2019, 03:58:55 PM »

Hemi chicks...
Once you memorize the VIN engine codes, you can look forward to the next level: the broadcast sheet codes for engine (and trim tag).  LOL.

Then, you may want to book a seat in the "advanced" class of "fender/data/trim tag decoding".  It makes it so much faster to look at this tag to see what the car was built with, then to bother asking the owner who is busy explaining to someone that the rear wing is indeed a factory installed option.

"U-code" is telling us that the car has a "440 - 4bbl" engine in it.
"E86" = refers more specifically to "440 - 4bbl, High Performance, 375HP".
"115" literally translates in English to: "Hey Floyd; grab one of those orange 440 - 4bbl automatic, 375HP, non A/C car engines and toss it in this chassis".

*disclaimer: others may say I worded the above a tad bit incorrectly.  They could be right (but I'm pretty close I think).  Hopefully they will give a link to the thread that can be more exact.  I go by memory and what I heard in the hobby over the years - lol. -Enjoy your Jedi training!


* Broadcast E86 w293.jpg (25.3 KB, 293x243 - viewed 148 times.)

* fender tag 115 w243.jpg (10.13 KB, 243x202 - viewed 152 times.)
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- Superbird Steve - Chicago
1970 A13 E86 D32 B5 H2XW w/GIII, ITB, 6L85
1964 Salon
Stevetona
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« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2019, 05:16:49 PM »

There’s several sites out there where you can type out your fender tag into the spaces and it will give you the options your car came with. Wish mine started with E74   icon_smile_cool

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=87
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