Switching to synthetic engine oil

[Paul G]

I know engine oil threads are beat to death. I would like to hear from anyone who has made the switchover, or others considering it. I am kicking around the idea of trying a synthetic engine oil. I have run Valvoline VR1 20w50 in the engine since I have owned the car, I have about 6 quarts of it on the shelf for the next oil change but would like to try synthetic. Switching to a 10w30 Mobil 1 or similar seems like a good idea. It can handle the heat better is the primary reason. Longer life between changes is a plus. I change the oil once a year which is about 3000 to 4000 miles.

My Charger is primarily street driven with occasional race track type driving, meaning big burnouts. Engine temps for the summer are around 230° (corrected from 130°) with the A/C on. Just cant get it to run any cooler when it is between 100° and 115° outside for a good part of the year, another reason I am contemplating the switch over.

The hype we see and hear about synthetics being much superior to conventional oil just has me thinking if it is time to make the switch over. I fully understand it will require a ZDDP additive mixed at the correct amount to keep my flat tappet cam alive. The ZDDP I have says it is compatible with all oils so I assume it is ok to use with synthetics.  

[myk]

I use Pennzoil Platinum full synthetic in 10W40 weight.  I didn't get any geysers of leakage like I was expecting, also it's probably just my butt dyno however I swear the car runs a little smoother, stronger.  Like you said, the synthetic vs. regular oil debate has been beat to death, and even though I'm not entirely convinced of either side I like to run the synthetic; the idea of treating the car with a finer oil is worth the price of admission.

Hey, what ZDDP additive do you use?  Where do you get it?

[Paul G]

Hey, what ZDDP additive do you use?  Where do you get it?

I have some Eastwood branded ZDDP I picked up last time I placed an order with Eastwood.

[Challenger340]

True Story, sorta funny...
We built a 440 Drag Race Shortblock for a Guy about 15 years ago...back when we still did "partial" Engines...and he is part of the reason we only do "complete, Finished & Dyno'd" nowadays.
So anyways,
buddy takes his shortblock home, adds his Heads, Cam, yada, yada, to a complete Engine...then goes Racing.
Comes into the Shop about a Month later, brings his timeslips to show us...we were FLOORED !
I says " whaddafawks wrong with this thing...I can RUN faster than that"
2 Months pass...with every Monday morning him showing up at the Shop....slooow timeslips in hand...every week us trying to figure it out, and give advice...jetting, timing, Intake, Cam Degree, etc., etc.
We were stumped

Finally, on another Monday morning with another handful of "Brown Paper Bag Head" timeslips, he finally says to us...
I just don't get it...it's had nothing but the best Mobil 1 Synthetic in it from Day One, and other than the dipstick keeps pushing out from Blowby...it's a great running Engine !!

Moral of the story.....do NOT try and break an Engine in(Rings) on Synthetic obviously....but also.... I dunno if a Guy actually NEEDS to add Zinc to Synthetic Oil to keep your Cam alive ??
Pretty slippery shiat that synthetic Oil Might wanna make some calls to check for sure....but....Once the Cam is well broken in on Dinosauer Oil....IMO, should be fine on Synthetic without the Zinc ?

[myk]

GOOD POINT.  I've been running a synthetic for quite some time now but I've NEVER added the zinc; hopefully someone in the know will state whether it's necessary with the synthetic or not-I would gamble that it IS...

[Paul G]

I am going to add the ZDDP along with the Mobil 1 10w30 when I do the next oil change. Auto Zone has a deal right now for a Bosch filter and 5+ quart jug of Mobil 1 for $32. Picked up two of them yesterday since I need 8 quarts. My truck uses the same filter so I have it for that oil change.

Valvoline VR1 comes in a 10w40 synthetic with ZDDP already in it. I would have used that except this Mobil 1 with Bosch filter was better deal, they had it on the shelf, and they didnt have that VR1 at the store.

[myk]

Hmm...Yeah I don't recall seeing that Valvoline stuff anywhere.  Even when I worked for a Valvoline lube shop I can recall people saying that some of the 'VR oils were only available at the shops...

[bill440rt]

I run Castrol Syntec 10w40 in two of my cars, with a small bottle of ZDDP in each. Mileage on each car is probably under 1000/year, so I can change it every other year.
Still running dino oil in my '69, engine only has 1400 miles on it. Maybe in a year or two as I rack up more mileage I will switch over to synthetic.

[1974dodgecharger]

paul,

thats incredible your car even runs 130 in our az heat.  best i do with my 383 is 185 and idle 190 when we hit 105 or so.  i dar not take her out for a cruise in 110 just too hot for me with no air lol.


as for engine oil i still use rotella 10/40 in mine with risilone zinc add. i just dont see the sunthetic unless you race or something for hi rev shifts, higher temps, etc..

[Paul G]

paul,

thats incredible your car even runs 130 in our az heat.  best i do with my 383 is 185 and idle 190 when we hit 105 or so.  i dar not take her out for a cruise in 110 just too hot for me with no air lol.


as for engine oil i still use rotella 10/40 in mine with risilone zinc add. i just dont see the sunthetic unless you race or something for hi rev shifts, higher temps, etc..

Wow, I am surprised my mistake took this long to be noticed. It is supposed to be 230°. The car starts up cold at 110° in the garage lol.

[flyinlow]

I broke in on conventional oil ,but since then I have run Mobil 1  15w-50 . The Lunati 60303 camed 446 has about 30 K miles on it so far.  The Mobil website says the oils for performance engines and has higher levels of ZDDP. I still add a half a bottle of addative.  Change the oil every 4th of July . About 4-5 K.miles 

[flyinlow]

Paul ,

I added an oil cooler a couple of years ago.  I don't have an engine oil temp gauge, but my cheapo laser temp gun showed about a 30* drop measuring the oil filter temp after similar runs. I mounted mine in front of the radiator. I did notice since it is in front of the radiator cooling fans control sensor that the fans come on faster at a traffic light. For AZ it would probably work better if you mounted one in its own airflow somewhere else, I would think. Might take some of the cooling load off your radiator. 

Craig

[1974dodgecharger]

paul,

thats incredible your car even runs 130 in our az heat.  best i do with my 383 is 185 and idle 190 when we hit 105 or so.  i dar not take her out for a cruise in 110 just too hot for me with no air lol.


as for engine oil i still use rotella 10/40 in mine with risilone zinc add. i just dont see the sunthetic unless you race or something for hi rev shifts, higher temps, etc..

doh, same here i start up 100 plus in garage also.

Wow, I am surprised my mistake took this long to be noticed. It is supposed to be 230°. The car starts up cold at 110° in the garage lol.

[John_Kunkel]

Moral of the story.....do NOT try and break an Engine in(Rings) on Synthetic obviously

From the Mobile website:

"MYTH: You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to a synthetic like Mobil 1™ oil. REALITY: You can start using Mobil 1 synthetic oil in new vehicles at any time, even in brand new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 synthetic is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:


Acura RDX
Aston Martin DB9, DB9 Volante, DBS, DBS Volante, Virage, Virage Volante, Rapide
Bentley Azure, Brooklands, Continental Flying Spur, Continental GT, Continental GTC, Mulsanne
Chevrolet Corvette Z06, ZR1 and Grand Sport Coupe
Chevrolet CR8 and COPO Camaro
Citröen DS3
Holden HSV
Lexus LFA
McLaren MP4-12C
Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles
Nissan GT-R
All Porsche Vehicles
Peugeot RCZ
Vauxhall VXR8
Viper Motorcycles
One of the myths surrounding synthetic oils is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design the high-performance cars listed above, Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil can be used starting the day you drive the car off the showroom floor."

[green69rt]

Just a question about the previous post.   Do most modern cars come with roller cams and/or rockers?   I would think that a lot of the guys with older engine builds do not because of cost.   With solid or old hydraulic lifters, they would need a break in??

[WHITE AND RED 69]

I switched to the Royal Purple HPS line about 2 years ago. Plenty of zinc and has worked great for me so far.   

[Challenger340]

Moral of the story.....do NOT try and break an Engine in(Rings) on Synthetic obviously

From the Mobile website:

"MYTH: You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to a synthetic like Mobil 1™ oil. REALITY: You can start using Mobil 1 synthetic oil in new vehicles at any time, even in brand new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 synthetic is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:


Acura RDX
Aston Martin DB9, DB9 Volante, DBS, DBS Volante, Virage, Virage Volante, Rapide
Bentley Azure, Brooklands, Continental Flying Spur, Continental GT, Continental GTC, Mulsanne
Chevrolet Corvette Z06, ZR1 and Grand Sport Coupe
Chevrolet CR8 and COPO Camaro
Citröen DS3
Holden HSV
Lexus LFA
McLaren MP4-12C
Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles
Nissan GT-R
All Porsche Vehicles
Peugeot RCZ
Vauxhall VXR8
Viper Motorcycles
One of the myths surrounding synthetic oils is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design the high-performance cars listed above, Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil can be used starting the day you drive the car off the showroom floor."

The key in the above statement being;
"" The fact is, CURRENT engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period.""

Anybody wish to step up and actually TRY breaking in their OLD Technology Engines and Rings on Synthetic ??    NOT me, I'm out.

[flyinlow]

I read what Mobil 1 said on the internet, so it must be true.

I guess I am really old fashioned. When I did the cam break in on the Charger I used Valvoline straight 30 non detergent oil with break in lube for the  first 20 minutes.


[/quote]

The key in the above statement being;
"" The fact is, CURRENT engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period.""

Anybody wish to step up and actually TRY breaking in their OLD Technology Engines and Rings on Synthetic ??    NOT me, I'm out.
[/quote]




I am going to be breaking in a 350 Chevy engine for an El Camino soon. I will consider trying it.  After all, SBC's are like attorneys , nobody cares if one dies.

[John_Kunkel]

The key in the above statement being;
"" The fact is, CURRENT engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period.""

Anybody wish to step up and actually TRY breaking in their OLD Technology Engines and Rings on Synthetic ??    NOT me, I'm out.

I'm fairly sure the Mobile tech bulletin was referring to old motors, the engines on the list were only and example of motors broken in on synthetic.  (Note the "even in brand new vehicles")

What's the difference between new tech and an old motor built with modern parts? The main concern with synthetic is the belief that "rings won't seat with synthetic, it's too slippery"; new rings in an old motor is the same as the same rings new in a new motor.

[Challenger340]

The key in the above statement being;
"" The fact is, CURRENT engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period.""

Anybody wish to step up and actually TRY breaking in their OLD Technology Engines and Rings on Synthetic ??    NOT me, I'm out.

I'm fairly sure the Mobile tech bulletin was referring to old motors, the engines on the list were only and example of motors broken in on synthetic.  (Note the "even in brand new vehicles")

What's the difference between new tech and an old motor built with modern parts? The main concern with synthetic is the belief that "rings won't seat with synthetic, it's too slippery"; new rings in an old motor is the same as the same rings new in a new motor.

I'll do a little digging and get back here John...I haven't played with much of the newer stuff....other than some Vette Aluminum LS Engine stuff for a Dealership, which when I phoned GM Tech to "confirm", that they indeed wanted .0008" Piston to Wall Clrc., which kind of freaked me out !...Eight-Ten Thousandths !(I made it .0012" anyways)
That was about 8-10 years ago....but YES, they wanted Dino Oil for Ring Breakin back then.....maybe now it's changed ?

That said,
I don't think I will attempt any Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil for Ring Break-in on any of my Customers Engines just yet ?... I just do NOT see the "What for" to it ? DINO Oil works just Fine for Ring seating !
and,
It is NO FUN dis-assembling the Engine.... to re-Hone the Cylinders IF the Synthetic doesn't allow the Rings to seat.....and that's what HAS TO HAPPEN because the Synthetic "BINDS" to the Walls !
I have seen Guys who tried Ring "Break-in" on Synthetic....didn't work...and even switching quickly back to DINO Oil was too late...had to Pull, Dis-Assemble and Re-Hone.

[Challenger340]

The key in the above statement being;
"" The fact is, CURRENT engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period.""

Anybody wish to step up and actually TRY breaking in their OLD Technology Engines and Rings on Synthetic ??    NOT me, I'm out.

I'm fairly sure the Mobile tech bulletin was referring to old motors, the engines on the list were only and example of motors broken in on synthetic.  (Note the "even in brand new vehicles")

What's the difference between new tech and an old motor built with modern parts? The main concern with synthetic is the belief that "rings won't seat with synthetic, it's too slippery"; new rings in an old motor is the same as the same rings new in a new motor.

I had some fairly lengthy conversations with a few Tech Guys I jabber with occasionally, far smarter than me ....about this Synthetic Oil for ring break-in ??
Long story short....IMO, Don't do it
Synthetic Oil for Break-in is simply NOT recommended for the Older Engines WITHOUT... a far greater degree of controls to the Bore Finish, and Cylinder imperfections during Thermal Stabilization.... NOT able to be adequately addressed with the older Engine Casting designs, and standard industry rebuilding Equipment(CK10) with standards STONES applying the finish.
Simply put...
the older Engines require the added "Friction" of Dino Oil to overcome the Finish and LAP IN....and, adjust to the greater distortions from Cold to HOT in the older design Blocks.
NOT that they wont break-in the rings with Synthetic Oil on the older Blocks...just that...taking one helluva chance, and if it is NOT successful...the agreed remedy would be to then have to dis-assemble and Re-Hone and try again with DINO Oil.
WHY BOTHER ?? when Dino works for break-in ?? then switch to synthetic AFTER ??

Remember here;
Nowadays...Engine Block design...and the Thermal expansion of Cylinders therein from Cold to Hot, are down to a SCIENCE, and "controlled" far better than on our older Blocks.
secondly,
the Machining Bore "Finish" application processes on these newer designed Blocks, again FAR more controlled, are done with DIAMOND ABRASIVES...read VERY EXPENSIVE outside of a Normal Rebuilder parameters...typically only for mass produced Manufacturer Budgets, that simply cannot be matched for the Surface "Areas", and Ring "Pressure" controls with standard "Stones" commonly used in the aftermarket.

 

[Paul G]

On the above posted chart are all those engines aluminum block? I have owned three vehicles that run synthetic from the factory, all aluminum block engines. Could that be the defining factor?

[Sublime/Sixpack]

Instead of using a synthetic that you have to combine with a Zinc additive  why not use a synthetic oil that already has the necessary Zinc/phosphate in it, like Joe Gibbs Driven HR-4.
I switched my classics over to it a few years back.

[myk]

Instead of using a synthetic that you have to combine with a Zinc additive  why not use a synthetic oil that already has the necessary Zinc/phosphate in it, like Joe Gibbs Driven HR-4.
I switched my classics over to it a few years back.

What does that run a quart?

[Sublime/Sixpack]

Seems like the last time I bought it, it cost ten or eleven bucks a quart.

[440]

+1 for Royal Purple.

I've been running Royal Purple for nearly 10 years (well before HPS) and have never had a problem. It is on the expensive side but I doubt you'd find a better oil.

My wife swears by Torco which appears to be a great oil too.