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Author Topic: 440  (Read 5852 times)
don duick
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440
« on: July 29, 2014, 02:27:12 AM »

440 standard block + 20 3.75 stroke, KB 236 hypertectic pistons, 10.2 compression, 440 source heads, comp cam, hydraulic flat tappet, intake 224 @ 50  exhaust 230 @ 50, 484 lift, standard rockers, crane adjustable pushrods, mp distributor MSD 6A box and coil, headers unknown brand 1 3/4 primary 3' collectors 2.5 pipes straight through mufflers. edelbrock performer dual plane inlet, 750 holley vac sec, 727 auto standard converter, 3.23 rear, 225 60 15 bf Goodrich G force.

went on the dyno today  did 3 runs   297 horsepower at the wheels was highest reading.. 4400 rpm
had detonation problems, retarted the timing from total 36 to 34, stopped detonation and picked up 18 hp.
primarys on carb were jetted correct but secondaries way too rich black smoke poured out of exhaust. was advised to drop 5 jet sizes in secondary plate and a possible 330 rear wheel horsepower was predicted.  

torque was 460 ftlb @ 2600 and 350 ftlb @ 4400
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Bob T
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2014, 03:07:48 AM »

Fairly healthy Don, beats mine  Wink
Is it ballpark for what you were expecting, am assuming you've just built it or had it screwed together?

Just out of interest ,what wheels were on it and after you change the jet sizes are you running it up again? I ended up with 261 at the bags with a similar combo with stock heads but suspect it would have been better with lighter wheels on for less inertia.
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don duick
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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2014, 05:04:54 AM »

thanks Bob yeah this is what I predicted, am not disappointed. I screwed this engine together about a year ago. I am lucky a close friend has a machine shop and did a great job came together no problems. only thing that had me worried is the cam timing, it was installed straight up. Done about 1,000 miles. I will get another plate for the secondaries within the next week not sure if I will run it up again. If I notice a difference with the bum dyno then that will be good enough for me. Maybe if my cam was degreed I might have more power. The wheels are 15 x 7 steel magnum 500. If I do run it on the dyno again I will post up result.

My brother also built a 440 same compression cam and heads. The only differences between our engines are -

1/ he has a six pack setup
2/ stock hp manifolds with 3" exhaust
3/ 1.6 ratio rockers which results in .500 lift
4/ firecore distributor and revinator box
5/ his cam was degreed 

this engine produced 350 hp and about 500 ftlbs of torque on the same dyno. He also has automatic 3.23 rear and 15 x 10 steel rims

are you planning any upgrades ? I noticed a huge improvement with just the MSD box and coil
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fy469rtse
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« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2014, 08:06:26 AM »

 2thumbs very good numbers don
Something to double check on your build , those 440 source heads had a critical failure, the wrong degree locks were used on valves, on a lot of early production lots
Eventually will pull through retainers ,
Just for piece of mind , just pull a rocker cover and check ? Ok  there's a thread on here about it,
And guess how I found out, a mates engine in the worst possible way , lucky it was at idle , damage not undo able
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don duick
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2014, 05:05:05 PM »

thanks for advice on the heads, my ears are always open. Yes I did read a lot about these heads and was aware. I installed comp cams springs with 10 degree locks and retainers. The 440 source locks did not look very good. I also bought a pair of edelbrock heads for my other car and those locks and retainers looked just as bad. I swapped them also. Both sets of heads were checked out by machine shop.   2thumbs
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fy469rtse
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« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2014, 07:55:24 PM »

Very good , glad your got everything covered , be very intrested in what you think edelbrock s  versus the 440s later after use ,
Post your thoughts in proven engine combos later on
But for now happy motoring, good numbers , strong motor,
Enjoy
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Bob T
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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2014, 04:10:27 AM »

For what its worth, a buddy of mine had the same problem with his 440 source heads too eek

Found the link to my dyno Don, check it out.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,107245.msg1302188.html#msg1302188

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don duick
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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2014, 05:02:15 AM »

interesting read yes close to mine and yours is iron headed ! I also have 72 primary jets in my 750 Vac Sec my rear plate was number 7 or 27, (not sure) the AF ratio was 9, way too rich. Now swapped for a no.22 today (have not driven it yet) hopefully  my af ratio will be 13 now. This is a possible 20 hp gain according to the dyno guy.  Im guessing your cam is small, similar to mine. If you ever get around to installing aluminium heads get closed chamber and limit your quench to .040. My pistons are .030 below the deck and I used a .020 gasket giving me .050 quench area.
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Bob T
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« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2014, 12:12:59 PM »

Ok, thanks for the info Don, I'll print it off to put into the car folder.
I'd like to look at a head and cam package in the future to wake it up a bit and also want to dip into mid/low 13's, leave the stock convertor in it and run on normal gas ( premium here at least ). Not sure if a 1.6 rocker update would be worthwhile as well.
I'll leave the Rev-n-Nator in though instead of going to msd, it seems to perform well. I ran out of time to do the ecu swap with the orange or black Chrysler boxes while it was on the dyno, bugged me a bit as I wanted to compare results.

You'll notice the 20 gain but it still wont be enough  icon_smile_big
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don duick
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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2014, 06:10:24 PM »

with stock converter 224 @ 50 is about the biggest cam that has power off idle. That size cam has 484 lift so 1.6 rockers will get you .500 lift maybe worthwhile. My other car is manual and has a 236 @50 cam that has .502 lift I notice a difference in performance  but has little power of idle have to rev it up a bit before I can release the clutch otherwise it will stall. This would not be a good cam with stock converter. If finances allow you may want to consider a roller cam. www.moparmuscle.com  website has an interesting article  in the "TECH" section worth reading if considering a cam swop.   
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Bob T
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« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2014, 11:50:24 PM »

Ok, I'll look it up.
Cheers  cheers
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ACUDANUT
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2015, 02:47:34 PM »

Great numbers. Is it a 71 440 and earlier or a 72 and later 440 (with a cast crank) ?
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Challenger340
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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2015, 07:04:02 AM »

Just trivia really, but....
The source heads respond with absolutely HUGE gains to an enhanced redo of the Valve Seat Angles and blending into the Bowl throats, especially below .500" lift.
* Move the 45* valve seat out to the edge of the valve @ .045" wide
* back-Cut the valve 30*
* make the 60* about .080" wide
* Cut the 75* Up from the 60*
* 90* the throat up into the bowl so the seat I.D. is 1.96"
* Hand Blend into the Bowl, radius the short turn very carefully.
* Clean into the Intake Ports aprox 1 1/2", straighten around the pushrod pinch, gasket match Head and Intake.

We've Documented 486 hp / 550 Ft/Lbs on an SF902 Engine Dyno, using the CompCams XE274H Cam this way, all packed below 5000 rpm.
Well worth the effort  2thumbs
see here;
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,106687.25.html
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Bob T
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« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2015, 03:59:12 AM »

Not just trivia Bob, its all much appreciated info , also that you give opinion without bias  2thumbs

I don't have the tools or know how to prep heads and frankly I don't want to trash my heads trying to re work the either, I'm fine with paying a professional to do his job.

I just went through the other thread again on lowly 440', as you say they make good power are street able and work with minimal changes to anything else in the drive train so thats a win in my book.
Cheers

Kelvin
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Challenger340
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« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2015, 07:57:29 AM »

More "trivia"....
IMO,
best and easiest installation with the Stealths is to stay with 5/16" pushrods for either 1.5 or 1.6 ratio arms.
If using an adjustable Rocker setup, 5/16" Ball & Cup style pushrods are available from Smith Bros.


3/8" pushrods will work as well, but invariably they do require some clearancing on the Stealths to fit even with 1.5 Ratio Arms, and 1.6 ratios are a bear to install.
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justcruisin
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« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2015, 02:40:25 PM »

Bob - that's pretty decent of you to share your R&D on the stealths. Question - would you apply the same to an RPM?

For what it is worth - I used 3/8 push rods on my eddy's with only a minor touch needed albeit with 1.5's.
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Challenger340
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« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2015, 10:30:57 PM »

Bob - that's pretty decent of you to share your R&D on the stealths. Question - would you apply the same to an RPM?

For what it is worth - I used 3/8 push rods on my eddy's with only a minor touch needed albeit with 1.5's.

Yep, the Eddy's accept a 3/8" pushrod far easier than the Stealths, even 1.6's are not terrible on the Eddy's.

On 1.5 ratio arms all the Eddy's require is a check and minor fixes, the Stealths.... well, it takes some more "finese"
And 1.6's on the Stealths even with 5/16" can be troublesome in my experience ?

I have not tried the "super" Stealth, they may be more accomodating ?
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cdr
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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2015, 11:00:34 PM »

i just did the super stealth's on mine, 1.5 rockers & 5/16 push rods, had to grind some on the intake side a little.
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