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Author Topic: Green69rt's paint work  (Read 47857 times)
green69rt
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« on: August 18, 2014, 03:11:34 PM »

I'm a ways from doing any paint on my car but need a little (maybe a lot) of help.   I'm saving the outside of the car for a professional paint shop but I would like to do the underside, trunk, engine bay and under the vinyl top myself to save so money.

So, right now I'm just cleaning up the underside as you can see in the attached pics.  There is a little old rust on some of the frame rails that will have to come off.   The rest of the underbody is a combination of POR15, EDP from AMD, and bare steel.  I've been checking some welds to make sure they are good and patching up some screw holes.  Then I will need at least a week to grind down all the welds.   I've been using wire brushes on a 1/2 drill to scrape off rust and old paint and places where the weld heat blistered the EDP on back side of welds. 

So... there becomes a time when I need to start preping for primer/paint.  I read thru B5blue's "painters please help" thread and that had a lot of info.   I would like to paint the underside body color (also trunk, engine bay.)  The color will be F5 which is listed as Medium Green Poly.   What does the "poly" mean??  Is this a metalic color??  I don't remember my old F5 charger being metalic but it might have had a "semi" metallic paint shruggy

Up till now I have used PPG Shop-Line 2k epoxy primer for the top of the car.

I won't be able to blast but can reach a lot of areas for sanding.  So where to start, where to start..........


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Patronus
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« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2014, 03:36:25 PM »

"Poly-urethane"? I would recommend priming the bottom too. X2 coats. Since you have it nice and upside down I'd scratch it in 220g and 400g and then mask it off at the pinch welds to break the paint line. I've personally never done a shiny-bottom car, but I would imagine its the same. 'Cept cutting and buffing...
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'73 Cuda 340 5spd RMS
'69 Charger 383 "Luci"
'08 CRF 450r
'12.5 450SX FE
green69rt
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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2014, 04:37:40 PM »

"Poly-urethane"? I would recommend priming the bottom too. X2 coats. Since you have it nice and upside down I'd scratch it in 220g and 400g and then mask it off at the pinch welds to break the paint line. I've personally never done a shiny-bottom car, but I would imagine its the same. 'Cept cutting and buffing...

That's a good point, I've always wanted the bottom body color buuuuuttttt... for a street car, maybe it's not the best idea.  After all some of it will be undercoated (at least the wheel wells.)  But if it's not painted body color then what is it painted, black, grey, puce???
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green69rt
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2014, 04:41:37 PM »

Oh, and here's another question, there are lots of nooks and crannies that I can imagine will be impossible to spray like inside the areas in the rear spring shackle supports.  What do I do with those, brush??
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comet_666
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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2014, 04:49:07 PM »

I used a rust encapsulator from Eastwood. However you can get coverage the better. Most of my panels/frame rails were replaced though. And as a driver we painted it a satin black on the bottom and inside so it would be easy touch up.
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fy469rtse
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2014, 07:01:29 PM »

Mitch ,
can i stop you there , just noticed you put frame connectors in, ? when and how did you do this ,reason I'm asking is you can open a can of worms , like your front putting these in without car sitting on its wheels weight distribution to shell , if you havnt done so , can i get you to hang doors on to check gaps , etc ,
if you have doe this already just ignore my comments
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fy469rtse
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2014, 07:07:28 PM »

also , would you think about adding the torque box's front and rear, will make handle ,
for underside , paint over deadner and such like heavy fuels thread in wheel arches , the rest of floor for a car intended to be driven , body deadner and satin black,
the way this car is going to turn out, no one is going spend too much attention to the underside ,
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green69rt
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« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2014, 07:13:02 PM »

Mitch ,
can i stop you there , just noticed you put frame connectors in, ? when and how did you do this ,reason I'm asking is you can open a can of worms , like your front putting these in without car sitting on its wheels weight distribution to shell , if you havnt done so , can i get you to hang doors on to check gaps , etc ,
if you have doe this already just ignore my comments
\

Actually, I had tacked the frame rails in place, a while back, while the car was setting on blocks level, etc.  I actually had stitch welded them in and was doing such a sh..tty job that I stopped till I could get the car flipped.  I did some checks after they were put in, moved the blocks around to different points under the front suspension areas.  If fact all the work I did on fixing the droopy nose problem were done with the frame rail extensions in place.  Every time the door gaps did not change.  If you look back thru my first thread you can find an obscure reference to my replacement of the inner rockers.  I made my own since AMD had not produced them yet.  I actually made them out of 14 or 16 GA metal so they are about twice as strong an the stock ones.  I think this really helped keep things from bending as I added things and moved the old girl around.  In fact when I put the car on the rotisserie I kept the doors on and the gaps didn't change more that a MM when it was in the air.  This car is stiff!!
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green69rt
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« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2014, 07:18:55 PM »

also , would you think about adding the torque box's front and rear, will make handle ,
for underside , paint over deadner and such like heavy fuels thread in wheel arches , the rest of floor for a car intended to be driven , body deadner and satin black,
the way this car is going to turn out, no one is going spend too much attention to the underside ,

Let me grind on you thoughts for a while.   Tomorrow is an off day for me (8:00pm right now here in Houston), got to get a gas bottle refill, lunch with some friends etc.   As for torque boxes, I thought my welding days were close to over!!  And yes, most will ignore the bottom, but I was going to use that as practice to get the trunk and then the engine bay right.
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fy469rtse
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« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2014, 07:24:10 PM »

good , i would to hate to have not said anything and see you have any more issues than needed with rebuilding this car.
paint the underside of car yourself mitch, any thing you do will be a whole lot better than the factory ever did,
mine body deadner and satin black , because i intend to drive it,
vinyl top not that hard if you take your time, year one has the two tone original green boar grain for these, google for pro's tips on install , lots of video's on you tube for help
car is looking great ,  2thumbs  
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« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2014, 09:06:18 PM »

I usually go for black on the bottom and inner wheel wells. Usually chassis saver or something nasty from Eastwood. I use foam brushes and this cool foam roller from the Depot. Spraying that stuff is harsh.. Twocents
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'73 Cuda 340 5spd RMS
'69 Charger 383 "Luci"
'08 CRF 450r
'12.5 450SX FE
green69rt
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« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2014, 09:33:43 PM »

I actually like the idea of brushing the bottom, just because there are so many hard to reach places.  The only problem I see is where to stop when I reach the front frame rails.  Part of these are underneath and part may be considered the engine bay  shruggy shruggy
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Charger-Bodie
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« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2014, 09:45:16 PM »

You can spray the underside. That's obviously what you want and because of that I think you will regret t if you don't paint it. As for the nooks and crannies, just as just the fan knob of the gun to a dot(very small spray pattern) and turn the pressure down. It can be done and cars can be driven with painted undersides. The contrast of all the parts will look great with f5 paint too. Go for it!
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68 Charger R/t white with black v/t and red tailstripe. 440 4 speed ,black interior
68 383 auto with a/c and power windows. Now 440 4 speed jj1 gold black interior .
My Charger is a hybrid car, it burns gas and rubber............
green69rt
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« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2014, 09:45:39 PM »

Just doing a little checking, $202 for a set of front and rear torque box plates from Mancini.  Really worth it for a street/cruiser??  Spent a lot already and I'm starting to feel the pinch.
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green69rt
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« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2014, 09:47:16 PM »

You can spray the underside. That's obviously what you want and because of that I think you will regret t if you don't paint it. As for the nooks and crannies, just as just the fan knob of the gun to a dot(very small spray pattern) and turn the pressure down. It can be done and cars can be driven with painted undersides. The contrast of all the parts will look great with f5 paint too. Go for it!

Wouldn't take much to tip me in that direction!!
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Charger-Bodie
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« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2014, 09:56:04 PM »

You can spray the underside. That's obviously what you want and because of that I think you will regret t if you don't paint it. As for the nooks and crannies, just as just the fan knob of the gun to a dot(very small spray pattern) and turn the pressure down. It can be done and cars can be driven with painted undersides. The contrast of all the parts will look great with f5 paint too. Go for it!

Wouldn't take much to tip me in that direction!!


Make it how "you" want it! There's no regret in that. Just a little more work. And what I always figure is if it does eventually get chipped and worn, freshen t up at that time with undercoating.
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68 Charger R/t white with black v/t and red tailstripe. 440 4 speed ,black interior
68 383 auto with a/c and power windows. Now 440 4 speed jj1 gold black interior .
My Charger is a hybrid car, it burns gas and rubber............
fy469rtse
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« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2014, 12:35:53 AM »

I always make my own torque boxes, couple of dollars for plate, have used the cardboard temp plates from my first car so many times now,
not hard with a folder and your skills mitch , few bucks saved there and here ,
dont worry we all feel the pinch with these cars, my paint blew out and stopped a lot of the work after that , trying to reassemble everything i went to touch needed money or new parts
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Canadian1968
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« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2014, 06:22:00 AM »

Don't be confused by the word "poly" when it comes to your primers . Urathane and polyurethane are the same thing . The words get tossed around an switched quite a bit in the paint world. Poly means multiple and is more less referring to the chemical make up the product, nothing to really worry about . What you do not want is polyester primer , this is more or less sprayable body filler. Use that for your body work, which needs to be sealed with a Urathane primer/sealer before paint.

220 grit is fine for surface prep.  The biggest thing to pay attention to is that the surface is clean. A good degreeser is a must ! As for the tiny spaces , as mentioned before just adjust the spray patter, you should have no problem getting into any of the spaces especially with the car on a rotisserie.

I would be using an epoxy not a Urathane primer on the bottom . You can spray the epoxy one day and then come back and spray the color the next without scuffing the finish . Most epoxy can be recoated up 36 hours later with out a problem. Your Urathane primer sealer must be used in a wet on wet application or else it need to scuffed before top coat is applied .
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green69rt
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« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2014, 06:31:37 AM »

Don't be confused by the word "poly" when it comes to your primers . Urathane and polyurethane are the same thing . The words get tossed around an switched quite a bit in the paint world. Poly means multiple and is more less referring to the chemical make up the product, nothing to really worry about . What you do not want is polyester primer , this is more or less sprayable body filler. Use that for your body work, which needs to be sealed with a Urathane primer/sealer before paint.

220 grit is fine for surface prep.  The biggest thing to pay attention to is that the surface is clean. A good degreeser is a must ! As for the tiny spaces , as mentioned before just adjust the spray patter, you should have no problem getting into any of the spaces especially with the car on a rotisserie.

I would be using an epoxy not a Urathane primer on the bottom . You can spray the epoxy one day and then come back and spray the color the next without scuffing the finish . Most epoxy can be recoated up 36 hours later with out a problem. Your Urathane primer sealer must be used in a wet on wet application or else it need to scuffed before top coat is applied .

So...after all the weld touchup, and wire brushing, etc; scuff everything with 220 or 250 grit, wipe with degreaser, shoot epoxy primer, wait 30 minutes or 6 hours (??) shoot another coat of primer, next day(12-16 hours later) shoot color, wait 30-40 minutes shoot second coat of color, have a glass of wine  Grin
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Charger-Bodie
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« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2014, 06:53:41 AM »

Don't be confused by the word "poly" when it comes to your primers . Urathane and polyurethane are the same thing . The words get tossed around an switched quite a bit in the paint world. Poly means multiple and is more less referring to the chemical make up the product, nothing to really worry about . What you do not want is polyester primer , this is more or less sprayable body filler. Use that for your body work, which needs to be sealed with a Urathane primer/sealer before paint.

220 grit is fine for surface prep.  The biggest thing to pay attention to is that the surface is clean. A good degreeser is a must ! As for the tiny spaces , as mentioned before just adjust the spray patter, you should have no problem getting into any of the spaces especially with the car on a rotisserie.

I would be using an epoxy not a Urathane primer on the bottom . You can spray the epoxy one day and then come back and spray the color the next without scuffing the finish . Most epoxy can be recoated up 36 hours later with out a problem. Your Urathane primer sealer must be used in a wet on wet application or else it need to scuffed before top coat is applied .

I totally agree with the exeption that , I would not wait until the next day to spray color unless its cool when your spraying. You can wait, no doubt. I just would rather get on it earlier in the window .
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68 Charger R/t white with black v/t and red tailstripe. 440 4 speed ,black interior
68 383 auto with a/c and power windows. Now 440 4 speed jj1 gold black interior .
My Charger is a hybrid car, it burns gas and rubber............
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« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2014, 06:55:55 PM »

As for your question about your paint color being"poly". That was a term back in the day that means metallic . And, yeas your f5 paint is metallic . A very nice medium green metallic .
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68 Charger R/t white with black v/t and red tailstripe. 440 4 speed ,black interior
68 383 auto with a/c and power windows. Now 440 4 speed jj1 gold black interior .
My Charger is a hybrid car, it burns gas and rubber............
green69rt
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« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2014, 08:55:51 PM »

As for your question about your paint color being"poly". That was a term back in the day that means metallic . And, yeas your f5 paint is metallic . A very nice medium green metallic .

I thought so, my first new car was a 69 RT and IIRC it was F5 and I thought was a metallic.  Thanks for the info.  What did you think of my reply a few back about the timing of the different coats when painting the bottom??   
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« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2014, 10:24:16 PM »

Your times are to long . First coat of epoxy, once it has flashed off you can put on your second coat should be no more than 10 maybe 15 mins .  Check the recoat time for your epoxy . The last epoxy I used had a 36 hour window. As for your color, I think I missed if you said you are using a single stage or base clear. If just a single stage sime time frame as your epoxy about 10 mins between coats should be fine .
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« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2014, 12:09:19 AM »

Your times are to long . First coat of epoxy, once it has flashed off you can put on your second coat should be no more than 10 maybe 15 mins .  Check the recoat time for your epoxy . The last epoxy I used had a 36 hour window. As for your color, I think I missed if you said you are using a single stage or base clear. If just a single stage sime time frame as your epoxy about 10 mins between coats should be fine .

As for your question about your paint color being"poly". That was a term back in the day that means metallic . And, yeas your f5 paint is metallic . A very nice medium green metallic .

I thought so, my first new car was a 69 RT and IIRC it was F5 and I thought was a metallic.  Thanks for the info.  What did you think of my reply a few back about the timing of the different coats when painting the bottom??   


 yesnod
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68 Charger R/t white with black v/t and red tailstripe. 440 4 speed ,black interior
68 383 auto with a/c and power windows. Now 440 4 speed jj1 gold black interior .
My Charger is a hybrid car, it burns gas and rubber............
green69rt
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« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2014, 10:00:43 AM »


So...after all the weld touchup, and wire brushing, etc; scuff everything with 220 or 250 grit, wipe with degreaser, shoot epoxy primer, wait 30 minutes or 6 hours (??) shoot another coat of primer, next day(12-16 hours later) shoot color, wait 30-40 minutes shoot second coat of color, have a glass of wine  Grin

Again, thanks for all the help.  I'll try again in my own words...

scuff everything with 220 or 250 grit, wipe with degreaser, shoot epoxy primer, wait 15 minutes and shoot another coat of primer (which is probably about the time it would take me to clean up the gun and mix another cup of primer ), next day(12-16 hours later??) shoot color, wait 10-15 minutes shoot second coat of color.   Now what about a sealer??

When I was priming before I used about 5% medium reducer to make it flow even, 10% seemed too thin and gave me some runs.  Given the Houston heat maybe a slow reducer this time or none at all??  If I start this process in the morning I could possibly shoot the primer in the morning cooness and the color in the afternoon but it gets around 95 then.  

And I was intending to use single stage for this car.

Edit: just checked the data sheet for DP50 and it says 10-15 min between coats then 60 minutes to topcoat over two coats of DP50. 
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