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Author Topic: James Hylton with his old wing car  (Read 10646 times)
Stevearino
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« on: August 05, 2015, 07:21:56 PM »

Just saw this on Facebook and thought I would drop it here.


* James.jpg (76.99 KB, 618x512 - viewed 1957 times.)
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69 R/T SE -A47-Y2-CRX-V1T-V88


« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2015, 12:51:31 AM »

 2thumbs coolgleamA
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odcics2
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2015, 03:39:22 AM »

 cheers


* james-hylton-dodge-charger-daytona-jpg.4591.jpg (113.54 KB, 419x652 - viewed 1743 times.)
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wingcar
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2015, 07:02:38 AM »

It's really neat to see the old racing stars of the past with the race cars they drove back in the day......  2thumbs
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1970 Daytona Charger SE "clone" (440/Auto)
1967 Charger (360,6-pak/Auto)
2008 Challenger SRT8 BLK (6.1/Auto) 6050 of 6400
Aero426
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2015, 01:59:50 PM »

Much research needs to be done before they do anything to the car.    Much of that involves searching for period photographs from 1969 and Feb of 1970.    If the car is indeed the one Hylton self built  (as it appears to be) ,  it is considerably different than what a Nichels built car looks like under the skin.    At Carlisle, they have already advertised that it was a Nichels car, which lacking certain major design features, it isn't.   Hopefully, they do not press the easy button and copy features from cars that are already out there.    
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odcics2
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2015, 04:34:44 PM »

The Daytona Archives have pics of it with hood up, at Talladega , fall of 69.
I told Bill Rossi about this a while back... 
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wingman(22)
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2015, 08:50:43 PM »

I guess I dropped the ball on the research of the car. I had no intention of spending a ton of money to do the car. I contacted Daytona but had to pay for research and photos. Just never did it. I am sure current owners will do their best to be sure of the history behind the car. They don't seem like the type to fabricate a lie.
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Aero426
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2015, 10:23:38 PM »

I guess I dropped the ball on the research of the car. I had no intention of spending a ton of money to do the car. I contacted Daytona but had to pay for research and photos. Just never did it. I am sure current owners will do their best to be sure of the history behind the car. They don't seem like the type to fabricate a lie.

Not suggesting they are lying.   But they need to take their time.   Going through the ISC photo vault isn't cheap.   They don't give you anything.   But they will have material on the car.   The under hood shot would be gold to have.   
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odcics2
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2015, 03:28:26 AM »

I guess I dropped the ball on the research of the car. I had no intention of spending a ton of money to do the car. I contacted Daytona but had to pay for research and photos. Just never did it. I am sure current owners will do their best to be sure of the history behind the car. They don't seem like the type to fabricate a lie.

Key word: research!
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wingcar builder
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2015, 07:52:12 AM »

The photos I have don't agree with this present car. as far as the story of James building it himself is embellished by a scribbler like Petty's building their own Superbirds. you could buy a Nichels car in any stage of completion  The pics I have from 69' show a Nichels chassis being finished like Pettys and others did. I've seen this car in question personally and took my own photos. i think it's going to be next to impossible for them to prove anything either way.
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Stevearino
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« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2015, 11:10:21 AM »

Just think of the questions about all of the restoration, reproductions, tribute cars ect. that could be instantly cleared up if ISC wasn't so stingy with their photo archives. What are the keeping it under wraps for. We few old timers are the only ones who give 2 s##ts about the accuracy of these cars. They could gain a little favorable PR if they would work with instead of against all the independent restoration efforts instead of making us comb through old magazine articles ,personal photos and an ever diminishing pool of people who remember what went on in the day.
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odcics2
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2015, 02:28:25 PM »

Here are the photo proofs of under the hood, taken at Talladega, Sept. 1969.
All "new owner" has to do is call up ISC, refer to the proof number and which pics they want at $25. each.

I can see the hinges are stock B body, not like a "real" Nichels Engineering built machine. 
I have seen a few vintage pics showing the same hinges.  one does not easily swap hinges between cars, so most likely its the same car in those pics.

I agree that you could buy a car in any state of completion.
Perhaps wingcarbuilder can post vintage vs today of certain pics that might help shed some light?   2thumbs


* 69 sept. talladega race.jpg (131.1 KB, 614x461 - viewed 1567 times.)

* #48 James Hylton '69 Dodge Charger Daytona Talladega Sept. of 1969.jpg (82.96 KB, 435x916 - viewed 1663 times.)
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wingcar builder
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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2015, 10:16:16 PM »

I agree, hopefully the new owner will research it properly. One the things I've always wondered about the Hylton Daytona is the car started out with side glass. by the Charlotte National 500 race it was gone. and at the end of season at Texas. James sells the car to Tab Prince, car has all side glass back in. Was the glass put back in? was it really the Daytona Prince bought? or was the Charger 500 in the garage at the same time in 69 have the wing and front clip put on it? James had 2 cars at the same time for sure it is a proven fact. also the fuel inlet looks different to.











You can see the modified hinges. look like the springs are reversed. Nichels used Dodge Dart hinges I believe.

Prince at Daytona. Glass back in.



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Aero426
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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2015, 08:07:42 AM »

With the inner and outer door shell being split into two halves, The side glass remove and install is easy to perform on the race car.     
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wingcar builder
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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2015, 11:06:00 AM »

Trouble I had was matching things up and couldn't. now, I know this thing has had a long hard life. the original car appears to have a Nichels firewall. the car now is similar but the horizontal line that's bead rolled on it goes all the way across not having a space in it. also shock location is totally different compared to the photos I took personally. could've been changed over the years. but frame rail looks narrower.

This is the other photo taken on same day at James'  shop by Mike Ashley. note the firewall, also Daytona was a wet sump.




photo I took.



now to add something more to the mystery,  here is a Charger 500 that was inside the shop same day. I believe this was his former Riverside car.  Wonder where this car went?  james jumped ship to Ford shortly afterward.







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1RareBird
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« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2015, 08:29:43 PM »

The firewall is really a tell all IMO. The current car does not have a Nichels one, but a hand fabbed piece. The ribs aren't even close, like the original car shows. The suspension also backs up the fact that these are two different chassis. Unless the understood bars and firewall were changed out, which doesn't look that case from the pics.
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wingcar builder
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« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2015, 09:24:45 AM »

Actually it is a Nichels firewall. I forgot I had a photo of a Nichels road runner under construction in my archives. this is P-94 note the horizontal bead has no space. it runs solid all the way. why there are 2 styles is beyond me.

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myk
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« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2015, 09:48:02 AM »

Just think of the questions about all of the restoration, reproductions, tribute cars ect. that could be instantly cleared up if ISC wasn't so stingy with their photo archives. What are the keeping it under wraps for. We few old timers are the only ones who give 2 s##ts about the accuracy of these cars. They could gain a little favorable PR if they would work with instead of against all the independent restoration efforts instead of making us comb through old magazine articles ,personal photos and an ever diminishing pool of people who remember what went on in the day.

Vanity.  They'll take those secrets with them to their graves and they wouldn't have it any other way...
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RIGHT as the police were pulling up...
odcics2
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« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2015, 12:13:13 PM »

Actually, no vanity involved.

Any of their photos are available to the public for $25. each. 

The 3 Hylon pics I posted above would be 75.  I think a guy would get at least that one bottom pic.
If you think you have that car, what price is it worth to you to document it?

Granted, it would be cool if ALL those old pics were on the net someplace, for free! 
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wingcar builder
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« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2015, 01:43:41 PM »

Sadly, they find their way to ebay. nothing I love more than a grainy pixelated photo for $10.00
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Stevearino
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« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2015, 05:12:51 PM »

Actually, no vanity involved.

Any of their photos are available to the public for $25. each. 

The 3 Hylon pics I posted above would be 75.  I think a guy would get at least that one bottom pic.
If you think you have that car, what price is it worth to you to document it?

Granted, it would be cool if ALL those old pics were on the net someplace, for free! 

Well that is a better deal than it has been in the past. I was doing some research for a poster I was working on with all of the Daytona 500 winners on it back in the early 90's. I couldn't find a picture of Marvin Panches Smokey Yunick car that won in I believe 1963. I could only rent the picture and it cost me $50.00 and had to sign an agreement not to copy the photo.
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odcics2
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« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2015, 01:07:42 AM »

Actually, no vanity involved.

Any of their photos are available to the public for $25. each. 

The 3 Hylon pics I posted above would be 75.  I think a guy would get at least that one bottom pic.
If you think you have that car, what price is it worth to you to document it?

Granted, it would be cool if ALL those old pics were on the net someplace, for free! 

Well that is a better deal than it has been in the past. I was doing some research for a poster I was working on with all of the Daytona 500 winners on it back in the early 90's. I couldn't find a picture of Marvin Panches Smokey Yunick car that won in I believe 1963. I could only rent the picture and it cost me $50.00 and had to sign an agreement not to copy the photo.

Progress!!   2thumbs

Look at the differences in the upper control arm mounts between the pics posted.
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odcics2
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« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2015, 01:12:22 AM »

Nichels firewall.

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500Jon
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« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2015, 05:56:42 AM »

Wicked stuff!!!
#48 Daytona is back again...(which one) popcrn popcrn popcrn
If they is/were Charger 500's and/or, 68/69 Chargers, then, are they Daytona's?
A category should be 'designated' for ex-race Wingcars...Calling them Daytona' and Superbirds isnt strictly true???
I thought that the #48 car may be the 'only ever' real race Daytona, but obviously NOT!!!
TONA's and BIRD's does it for me lol...

There are so few REAL RACE WINGCARS remaining, that anything and everything should be saved and restored (as best as poss.) 2thumbs 2thumbs 2thumbs

Well done for brave Folks who risk their hard earned cash and reputations on beloved Mopar ex RACE-WINGCARS...
Too much flak and negativity is bad for these 'nearly' 50 year cars and their owners.

GIVE THESE GUYS/CARS A BREAK, POSITIVE THINKING IS NEEDED AT ALL TIMES... cheers cheers cheers

NuFF SaiD, 5J
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4-SPEED, 1969 Charger-500 is the most Coolio car in the World!
wingcar builder
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« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2015, 07:43:11 AM »

Actually it is a Nichels firewall. I forgot I had a photo of a Nichels road runner under construction in my archives. this is P-94 note the horizontal bead has no space. it runs solid all the way. why there are 2 styles is beyond me.




zoom in on the firewall. it does match this firewall in this road runner being built at Nichels. this is chassis P-94 must be the next one built after the #88 Daytona chassis. but note the horizontal line goes all the way across with no space behind where Hemi valve cover would be. if the chassis in question is a Hylton car then it could only be the Charger 500 not the Daytona.
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