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Author Topic: Anybody ever tried FI Tech fuel injection?  (Read 23419 times)
JR
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« Reply #225 on: March 19, 2017, 11:18:39 AM »

That's funny Dino, I was using a billet Firecore distributor before also. It was a beautiful distributor, but there's no replacement for modern technology.

I'm using an MSD Blaster coil. (I cant remember​ if it's a Blaster or Blaster 2). Nothing special.

The difference in smoothness is huge. I just got back from a drive and I'm very pleased. The car runs through the Rev range fantastic. The pull from 55 to 90mph is silky smooth.  Dare I say it almost feels like a modern engine.



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Dino
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« Reply #226 on: March 19, 2017, 11:24:46 AM »

That's so good to hear. And that's exactly what I want for my car, and no fuel smell!

When I installed the Firecore RTR system, I merged the blue and tan wires that went to the ballast resistor so I could have power in key and run for the CD coil and I got rid of the ballast resistor. I merged the wires inside the car so they go to the bulkhead connector as one. That way I could run a single heavy gauge wire to the coil. Do I need to undo this?

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JR
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« Reply #227 on: March 19, 2017, 11:42:55 AM »

Actually, you're good Dino, I'd leave it.

FItechs (and the other TBI kits) need a power wire ran that's hot during start AND run. You would have to do that same modification when you install EFI anyways.

Consider yourself one step ahead in your conversion. icon_smile_big

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Dino
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« Reply #228 on: March 19, 2017, 11:44:16 AM »

Well that's a welcome change!  lol

 2thumbs

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garner7555
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« Reply #229 on: March 19, 2017, 06:32:00 PM »

Great news JR!   cheers

I figured it would be a solid improvement. I'll have to sell off my Firecore stuff and get some new goodies. Sad that it won't work with the EFI systems as it's a solid ignition system, but I'd like to have the computer control it as well.   yesnod

What coil do you use?


I bought a 2 wire Firecore distributor just because I wanted to use timing control with my FiTech.   I sure hope it works!   
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Dino
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« Reply #230 on: March 19, 2017, 06:36:24 PM »

Great news JR!   cheers

I figured it would be a solid improvement. I'll have to sell off my Firecore stuff and get some new goodies. Sad that it won't work with the EFI systems as it's a solid ignition system, but I'd like to have the computer control it as well.   yesnod

What coil do you use?


I bought a 2 wire Firecore distributor just because I wanted to use timing control with my FiTech.   I sure hope it works!   

As long as it's not the RTR dizzy then it will. I wish they came without the vacuum advance pod. Still, I may end up getting that exact same one. I really like the quality of the Firecore products. I'm definitely keeping my plug wires!   yesnod
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garner7555
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« Reply #231 on: March 19, 2017, 06:42:27 PM »

My 2 wire doesn't have vaccuum advance if I remember correctly.   I think it was mechanical advance only (which I already locked out at 0).       2thumbs
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« Reply #232 on: March 19, 2017, 06:46:44 PM »

My 2 wire doesn't have vaccuum advance if I remember correctly.   I think it was mechanical advance only (which I already locked out at 0).       2thumbs

What!? Firecore sells two wire dizzies with mechanical advance?? Oh dude! I had no idea! Well that settles it then, I'm getting one of those.   yesnod

Where did you buy yours?
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garner7555
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« Reply #233 on: March 19, 2017, 07:19:35 PM »

Here is a picture of my current setup.   I like the small, sleek look of the Firecore.    I ordered mine through Ron (Firefighter)


* 12963623_1387978694561577_2764247724573264790_n.jpg (94.4 KB, 960x720 - viewed 225 times.)
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garner7555
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« Reply #234 on: March 19, 2017, 07:21:24 PM »

Another angle.


* 11219599_1387978617894918_3498901544760623290_n.jpg (88.78 KB, 960x720 - viewed 215 times.)
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Dino
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« Reply #235 on: March 19, 2017, 07:39:05 PM »

Ah gotcha, you're running the tall dizzy. I need the stock size and that one only comes with the vacuum advance. Maybe there's a block off plate for those. I'll have to check.
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JR
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« Reply #236 on: March 19, 2017, 08:10:48 PM »

Garner, if that is an equivalent distributor to the msd pro billet it should work fine, no worries.

I forget the model number, but my firecore was the direct replacement stock style distributor with vacuum advance. It would not work with timing control, it would be like trying to use a stock distributor.

Heres the best pic I have of the old distributor I had that I replaced. 

Yours looks different,  I think youll be fine.

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« Reply #237 on: March 19, 2017, 08:14:16 PM »

I thought all you needed was a two wire? I know the RTR doesn't work because it has its own ECU. So what type is needed to work with timing control? What's special about them? Or what does a stock electronic distributor lack to work with timing control? I have lots to learn here.   icon_smile_big
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garner7555
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« Reply #238 on: March 19, 2017, 08:55:51 PM »

Garner, if that is an equivalent distributor to the msd pro billet it should work fine, no worries.

I forget the model number, but my firecore was the direct replacement stock style distributor with vacuum advance. It would not work with timing control, it would be like trying to use a stock distributor.

Heres the best pic I have of the old distributor I had that I replaced. 

Yours looks different,  I think youll be fine.




Actually, from what I'm told you can use a stock style 2 wire distributor if you "lock it out".  I think you have to weld it to lock it out.    This obviously isn't the best way though.    In my opinion the Fire core or the MSD like you used are far better quality than necessary.  However, the stock "rebuilt" 2 wire distributor was less than adequate in accuracy.   

Thanks for the write up JR.  I have been waiting to hear how you liked it. 
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JR
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« Reply #239 on: March 19, 2017, 09:22:55 PM »

Actually Garner, a stock distributor will not work. Even with the advance locked.

I learned this while I was experimenting with timing control a while back. Stock distributors dont produce a clean enough signal for the Fitech to read. Too much RF interference. I actually tried a stock distributor, and the standard replacement firecore. Neither would work, both threw a trouble code for  "ignition noise" or something like it. The phasable rotor is also VERY important. You have to set the initial base timing by turning the distributor the traditional way, program the base timing in the computer, then phase the rotor.

Heres a quote from Johnny at Pace Peformance who explains it better than I can:

"....Fitech Compatible Ignition system.

OK..so there are several considerations with ignition components that work, and that don't. Primarily...The factory chrysler ignition needs discarded entirely. But i'll come back to this and explain why in a moment.

...........

All of the fitechs require a clean tach signal to operate. So this needs to come from the above. The factory chrylser stuff simply does NOT have it. Do NOT waste your time thinking you're going to "make this work somehow" with a $40 rock auto distributor, or a $20 piece of shielded wire... I have had 100 guys call me back at a later date to order the distributor i told them then would need, and about 1 to date that somehow got a mopar distributor to work. it's simply not worth sacrificing the reliability, and initial setup if your $1500 worth of EFI system and pumps...on a 40 year old, or $40 distributor.

2. All the other fitech units can control timing, or can work in fuel only. For Timing control. this requires a pro-billet, pro-series style distributor with a phasable rotor....
"

Here is the thread. http://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/fitech-efi-question-and-answer.27076/
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« Reply #240 on: April 05, 2017, 07:12:18 PM »

Just wanted to share an update with my experience so far.

The FiTech unit has been great, but I learned something for you guys using the tanks Inc fuel tank kit.



The fuel tank vent valve, this little guy here,



MUST be mounted higher than the fuel filler neck. Which is easy on a 1st or 3rd gen (I assume), but if you have a 2nd gen, that can be a problem considering the filler neck sits on top of the quarter panel.

Originally, I thought it only had to be higher than the tank, and mounted it under the car, between the shock mounts. This caused it to pour fuel out of the vent after running a while and was discovered at an AutoX.

Next, I tried mounting it level with the top of the filler in the trunk. Which seemed to work unless the car was facing downhill. Then it started leaking fuel out the vent when parked, (damn it!).

So in a last ditch effort, I made a bracket for it to sit inside the passenger side sail panel. That is the highest point I could possibly have it and have it out of the way.

Finally, it seems to do the trick. No leaks so far.

It was my fault for misreading the instructions originally, but this seems to work. If any of you guys have any suggestions on where you mounted yours, I'd love to hear it also.

Hope this helps someone.

So has anybody figured out what is really the best way to install this vent line on our 2nd gen Chargers?
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JR
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« Reply #241 on: April 05, 2017, 08:14:30 PM »

Well, I can say I've been running mine in the same configuration for over a year, (with rollover vent in the sail panel) with absolutely no problems at all. Gas cap is sealed tight, no fuel vapors, and runs like a late model vehicle.

You're free to vent the line through the original vent line in the top of the filler neck, but then you don't have the safety feature of the rollover valve. And you can't seal the fuel filler cap tight without creating a vacuum, so fuel will leak out of the cap under hard cornering if you go that route.

I'm not saying my way is THE way, but it's worked for me for over a year with no problem.

This is only an "issue" on 2nd gen Chargers (and Challengers to a smaller extent id imagine.)  I think every other Mopar with a conventional fuel cap location would be no problem at all.
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« Reply #242 on: April 06, 2017, 09:32:31 AM »

I too used the stock vent from the top of the tank that dumps into the frame rail, and on my car (Coronet) you used a sealed non vented gas cap. So far I've had no issues with fuel coming out the cap or vacuum in the tank.
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JR
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« Reply #243 on: April 06, 2017, 10:52:58 AM »

I would suspect either your fuel cap isnt fully sealed and is allowing air in, or you arent driving the car long enough for the vacuum to cause an issue.

If you plumb the vent into that line, with the cap sealed,  theres no air to replace the fuel that is pulled from the tank. In a worst case scenario,  that could cause the fuel pump to burn up, the engine to run poorly, or the tank to collapse.

You cannot put fuel into your tank, unless you can get the air out...and you cannot withdraw fuel from your tank unless you can let air in.

Here is an excerpt from Tanks Inc own website:

Up through the 1960's, most vehicles used vented gas caps.  This is simply a gas cap with a hole in it. Unfortunately, this hole would allow the fuel to splash out when accelerating or turning a corner.


Your tank has to breathe. In order to breathe, your tank must have a vent somewhere that will relieve both vacuum and pressure. Gasoline expands in volume as it warms up and shrinks in volume as it cools down. The fuel level of your tank changes throughout the day, even if you are not driving it.

If you are running a vent line it is important that the line is ran higher than the highest point on the tank including the fuel filler neck.  Also, the vent line cannot have a dip in it where fuel or condensation can get trapped in the line.  If fuel becomes trapped in the line your tank will then build pressure or vacuum until there is enough pressure to purge the vent which will cause gas and/or odor to come from the vent line.  If enough pressure builds up damage could be caused to your tank.

 Remote Rollover Vent Diagram
If you are using our remote rollover vent valve # VVR  make sure that the vent is mounted vertically.  Mounting the vent at an angle may cause the vent to shut off.
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68CoronetRT
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« Reply #244 on: April 07, 2017, 09:29:14 AM »

But isnt the vent line a 2 way street? When under vacuum its pulling fresh air and when it needs to expand, it vents?

The roll over valve is ment to shut off fuel from spilling in the event of a roll over through the vent line. But it's still your only vent.

Maybe I should switch to a vented cap? I never drive the car that long, and when I do it's never an issue.
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JR
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« Reply #245 on: April 07, 2017, 10:34:21 AM »

The original dodge vent line that just dumped the fuel on the ground was a two way street.

BUT if you've tapped the fuel tank vent line into that same vent line, and it terminates at the top of the filler neck, with a sealed gas cap, then you have no venting at all, and it is slowly creating a vacuum as fuel is pulled from the tank. Plumbing the vent line to the OE vent hose and capping it off is effectively useless, it's doing nothing.

It would run absolutely fine and create no problem for the fuel pump if you keep the same configuration, and switched to a vented fuel cap. The pump, and EFI would be happy.

BUT, if you do that, you don't have the protection of the rollover valve in an accident, and it you ever do any hard launches at the drag strip, or hard cornering, fuel will come out of the cap. It's technically not a big deal if that happens, (all cars did that until the mid 70s), but it's not THE best way to do things. It literally is leaking your money out of the cap, and polluting unnecessarily.

But if you don't track the car, and just like to cruise on the street, you'll likely never have a problem with it. Just switch to a vented fuel cap asap if you want to run it that way.
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« Reply #246 on: April 07, 2017, 02:25:03 PM »

JR, I think you are thinking I have a Charger with the long tube from the gas cap to tank. With the Road Runners/Coronets etc... there is a fuel vent line from the tank where the sending unit bolts down and that line goes up and cris crosses inside the trunk and then over to pass frame rail into open air. Thus a vent that works both ways because its exposed to open air.

The bottom line is, you cannot have a fuel tank that is 100% air tight. What your saying is if you terminate the vent back into the fill neck (Charger) then your still creating an air tight gas tank.

So I think we are both correct here. 2thumbs
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JR
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« Reply #247 on: April 07, 2017, 02:37:42 PM »

Oh, ok, your terminating your vent into the open atmosphere.

My mistake. cheers
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« Reply #248 on: April 16, 2017, 09:40:20 AM »


Just spoke w/ the guy who will be our "builder," and he said for our 435hp build (Hughes 223/228, 111* LSA), we might wanna go with their 400hp version rather than the 600hp...said they run a little rich. We definitely don't wanna over-carb--has the QF 780 now for 906 heads/wedge intake/shorty headers (1 3/4")--and said to definitely call FiTech. He's put in 3 so far and likes them a lot.
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« Reply #249 on: April 16, 2017, 01:44:19 PM »

hey JR. I'm trying to get timing control going with a firecore dist and can't get it to fire. I get RPM signal but no spark. I found the rotor phase and reluctor wheel seems off by a little which makes me think the signal is firing but too late.

Did you have to set the rotor phasing with the MSD dist? Or can you give me the steps on how you got everything timed and happy with each other? Like base timing etc etc

I'm currently running the Firecore 2 wire billet dist.

Edit: did a bunch of reading and it seems you HAVE TO be able to phase the rotor. Calling Fitech tomorrow to find out. Luckily they are 45 mins from me, might have to take a drive up there and see what's up.
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