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Author Topic: Ted Stephens Daytona Wreck Under the Knife  (Read 26593 times)
Wingwalker
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« Reply #300 on: April 14, 2017, 12:54:10 PM »

Its got to be a better car, with all NEW steel and hand built, like a Rolls Royce!
Not a production line, throw-together Charger with a few add-ons by Creative lol...
An exact copy of a once beautiful Daytona, re-created with skill and love by modern methods!
Got to be worth as much as an original one, built under microscopic scrutiny by one and all.

If I had $100,000 I would by it... 2thumbs

WW cheers
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alfaitalia
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« Reply #301 on: April 14, 2017, 04:21:22 PM »

Its got to be a better car, with all NEW steel and hand built, like a Rolls Royce!
Not a production line, throw-together Charger with a few add-ons by Creative lol...
An exact copy of a once beautiful Daytona, re-created with skill and love by modern methods!
Got to be worth as much as an original one, built under microscopic scrutiny by one and all.

If I had $100,000 I would by it... 2thumbs


WW cheers


What.....? No offence but you are completely missing the point...that point being the difference between an original, classic car and a glorified kit car/replica with absolutely no history or provenance. My father would call you a philistine....or someone who knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing. I, of course would never be that rude! That might be worth a hundred large (not to me) but the original, before it was virtually destroyed and better still with its original unrestored patina...would be worth so much more.


..and by the way, I live just down the road from the Rolls Royce factory.....they are about as "hand built" as any other car these days....ie...not very!..which is why they are so much better now.
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Derwud
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« Reply #302 on: April 14, 2017, 04:47:39 PM »

..and by the way, I live just down the road from the Rolls Royce factory.....they are about as "hand built" as any other car these days....ie...not very!..which is why they are so much better now.

Rolls Royce is Hand Wrecked!!!!

Bentley Mulsanne id the last real RR/Bentley

As for Ted and the Daytona, it is just a show piece so you can see what is possible..




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held1823
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« Reply #303 on: April 14, 2017, 09:38:06 PM »

That creation is proof positive that you can now "restore" a high dollar car consisting of nothing but a rocker panel and a VIN tag.    Roll Eyes

The Warbird crowd has been doing that forever. I once saw a P-51 build from an ID tag and a pile of twisted metal.

no one questions why the new plane required the id tag from the non-existent one?
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ernie helderbrand - 409053
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« Reply #304 on: April 14, 2017, 11:13:37 PM »




What.....? No offence but you are completely missing the point...that point being the difference between an original, classic car and a glorified kit car/replica with absolutely no history or provenance.





For some, like myself, there is no "point" to speak of... "original" or "recreation" they are both the same in essence, that being a "machine", nothing more, nothing less, they are not some living being, deity, idol, temple, etc,...somehow these machines have been put on a pedestal, to be worshiped, cherished, fawned over like some religious icon

Yes they're cool cars, they invoke a thrill to drive them, own them, nothing more, but the last few decades have somehow put musclecar ownership, restoration, so-called originality, value, collectablity , etc, etc... akin with the properties of caring for some dam holy grail....geez get a life people
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markmopar
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« Reply #305 on: April 14, 2017, 11:39:22 PM »

That creation is proof positive that you can now "restore" a high dollar car consisting of nothing but a rocker panel and a VIN tag.    Roll Eyes

The Warbird crowd has been doing that forever. I once saw a P-51 build from an ID tag and a pile of twisted metal.

no one questions why the new plane required the id tag from the non-existent one?

Nope. Accepted practice to use a few original parts and build a plane around them.
Here's an ME-109 pulled from a lake and is under "restoration":
http://luftfartsmuseum.no/fly/messerschmitt-bf109-g-2-yellow-3/
This plane is WAY better than the Mustang was. Another ME-109 I know of is actually the remains of at least three wrecks made into one.
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held1823
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« Reply #306 on: April 15, 2017, 09:53:05 AM »

That creation is proof positive that you can now "restore" a high dollar car consisting of nothing but a rocker panel and a VIN tag.    Roll Eyes

The Warbird crowd has been doing that forever. I once saw a P-51 build from an ID tag and a pile of twisted metal.

no one questions why the new plane required the id tag from the non-existent one?

Nope. Accepted practice to use a few original parts and build a plane around them.
Here's an ME-109 pulled from a lake and is under "restoration":
http://luftfartsmuseum.no/fly/messerschmitt-bf109-g-2-yellow-3/
This plane is WAY better than the Mustang was. Another ME-109 I know of is actually the remains of at least three wrecks made into one.

so what becomes of the other two id tags? better yet, why would the recreated plane need an id tag to begin with?
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ernie helderbrand - 409053
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« Reply #307 on: April 15, 2017, 10:23:23 AM »

Quote
Yes they're cool cars, they invoke a thrill to drive them, own them, nothing more, but the last few decades have somehow put musclecar ownership, restoration, so-called originality, value, collectablity , etc, etc... akin with the properties of caring for some dam holy grail....geez get a life people

value was relative from day one - a superbird cost more than a belvedere

why do so few restore the base models back to original condition -wouldn't any forty five year old car be a collectible?

machines or not, the muscle car versions were as special then as they are today. not every aspiring twenty year old could afford a new charger r/t, but many could spring for a cheaper trim level. the exact same holds true today - the "premium" models are simply out of reach for the majority of people. adding a nose and a wing to a charger or road runner makes for a nice ride, but it doesn't transform the car into something it never was.

i would personally walk by a perfectly cloned bird to drool over a sport satellite. but either of these two would be far more appealing than this recreated machine wearing a vin tag salvaged from a pile of scrap metal. differences of opinion aside, each scenario plays a part in creating a market for master craftsmen like mike to hone their skills and find enough financial incentive to make parts that would otherwise not exist. pricey as the items are, they would be more so without the market expanding beyond the cars they actually belong on.



 
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ernie helderbrand - 409053
Wingwalker
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« Reply #308 on: April 15, 2017, 10:33:54 AM »

This Philistine was being SARCASTIC!

When you have restored as many Mopars as me then you can make comments about my Values!!!

WW
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alfaitalia
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« Reply #309 on: April 15, 2017, 10:56:22 AM »

This Philistine was being SARCASTIC!

When you have restored as many Mopars as me then you can make comments about my Values!!!

WW

Fair enough.....did not spot the sarcasm......sorry!
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« Reply #310 on: April 15, 2017, 11:29:13 AM »

Thanx for apology the Alfa.

My comments are mostly paradoxical and meant as a joke.
I have seen many 'Baskets-cases' return from the dead!
Done a few myself for Car owners who have 'paid too much' for a rare Historic junk-pile!
They are re-creations with a fendertag, chassis-plate whatever, thats RESTO... scratchchin

Ted Stephens is a fine chap and a credit to the Mopar restoration business.
He can do what ever he likes with his cars, he has the right to do so in my eyes!
Few Folks have got the credentials he has, plus others like him in the Mopar-World.

Mother Mopar gave up a long time ago with its heritage and fine Folks have done their best to Fly the Flag for us all.
Twenty five years ago I struggled to find a lower ball-joint for my Charger R/T, now I can get nearly every part NEW!!!

Thanks to Folks like TED and many others who have spent their time and money for us FEW Mopar lovers.

Nuff said.
WW
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Aero426
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« Reply #311 on: April 15, 2017, 06:03:40 PM »

That creation is proof positive that you can now "restore" a high dollar car consisting of nothing but a rocker panel and a VIN tag.    Roll Eyes

The Warbird crowd has been doing that forever. I once saw a P-51 build from an ID tag and a pile of twisted metal.

no one questions why the new plane required the id tag from the non-existent one?

Unlike cars, airplanes can fall out of the sky.   Extensive reconstruction is an accepted part of the deal.  I would say the warbird community is more liberal than we are with cars.   There are so few flyable WW2 aircraft in existence.  So the history of the aircraft is pretty easy to vet.  All are valuable.  But people know which planes are built from air and valued accordingly.   Many of the planes existing today were built near the end or after the war (didn't see combat).  If you have a plane that actually got shot at, that is extra special. 

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hemi-hampton
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« Reply #312 on: April 15, 2017, 08:10:47 PM »

Its got to be a better car, with all NEW steel and hand built, like a Rolls Royce!
Not a production line, throw-together Charger with a few add-ons by Creative lol...
An exact copy of a once beautiful Daytona, re-created with skill and love by modern methods!
Got to be worth as much as an original one, built under microscopic scrutiny by one and all.

If I had $100,000 I would by it... 2thumbs

WW cheers

I've restored lots of cars & lots of old Mopars. Some people come to you with a nice clean unrusted car. Others come to you with a rust bucket basket case. I can tell you from my experiance I much rather have the clean unrusted car when restored & done then the Frankenstein stitched together POS Rust bucket with new aftermarket fit like SH*T sheet metal but has a nice shiny new paint job. Put the 2 side by side & they may look the same but one is really nice under that paint job & the other one is aftermarket mess hiding under the paint job. Just my opinions, I'm sure others will disagree. LEON. Twocents shruggy scratchchin
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odcics2
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« Reply #313 on: April 17, 2017, 08:54:26 PM »

Quote
Yes they're cool cars, they invoke a thrill to drive them, own them, nothing more, but the last few decades have somehow put musclecar ownership, restoration, so-called originality, value, collectablity , etc, etc... akin with the properties of caring for some dam holy grail....geez get a life people

value was relative from day one - a superbird cost more than a belvedere

why do so few restore the base models back to original condition -wouldn't any forty five year old car be a collectible?

machines or not, the muscle car versions were as special then as they are today. not every aspiring twenty year old could afford a new charger r/t, but many could spring for a cheaper trim level. the exact same holds true today - the "premium" models are simply out of reach for the majority of people. adding a nose and a wing to a charger or road runner makes for a nice ride, but it doesn't transform the car into something it never was.

i would personally walk by a perfectly cloned bird to drool over a sport satellite. but either of these two would be far more appealing than this recreated machine wearing a vin tag salvaged from a pile of scrap metal. differences of opinion aside, each scenario plays a part in creating a market for master craftsmen like mike to hone their skills and find enough financial incentive to make parts that would otherwise not exist. pricey as the items are, they would be more so without the market expanding beyond the cars they actually belong on.
 

Some folks prefer their cars to be closer in integrity to the original factory that built them.  What would a hemi 4 speed Daytona be worth in 100% perfect condition with 3 miles on it?    shruggy
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DAY CLONA
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« Reply #314 on: April 17, 2017, 09:21:53 PM »

Quote
Yes they're cool cars, they invoke a thrill to drive them, own them, nothing more, but the last few decades have somehow put musclecar ownership, restoration, so-called originality, value, collectablity , etc, etc... akin with the properties of caring for some dam holy grail....geez get a life people

value was relative from day one - a superbird cost more than a belvedere

why do so few restore the base models back to original condition -wouldn't any forty five year old car be a collectible?

machines or not, the muscle car versions were as special then as they are today. not every aspiring twenty year old could afford a new charger r/t, but many could spring for a cheaper trim level. the exact same holds true today - the "premium" models are simply out of reach for the majority of people. adding a nose and a wing to a charger or road runner makes for a nice ride, but it doesn't transform the car into something it never was.

i would personally walk by a perfectly cloned bird to drool over a sport satellite. but either of these two would be far more appealing than this recreated machine wearing a vin tag salvaged from a pile of scrap metal. differences of opinion aside, each scenario plays a part in creating a market for master craftsmen like mike to hone their skills and find enough financial incentive to make parts that would otherwise not exist. pricey as the items are, they would be more so without the market expanding beyond the cars they actually belong on.
 

Some folks prefer their cars to be closer in integrity to the original factory that built them.  What would a hemi 4 speed Daytona be worth in 100% perfect condition with 3 miles on it?    shruggy



Personally to me a" factory original" 3 mile HEMI Daytona would be as worth as much as a newly created HEMI Daytona if they were equal in build/quality/etc, I see no difference in the variables of who, when, where, how a machine has been assembled, to me a machinery's value is a sum of it's parts, not it's misguided assigned pedigree or collector status
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« Reply #315 on: April 17, 2017, 09:25:54 PM »

i'm not making the connection between your question and the comment of mine that you quoted. unless it was mike's line in it that you're addressing?

mileage aside, does an untouched J- code daytona even exist?.  a real hemi daytona restored to that condition (there are a handful of "perfect" ones) might be the only possibility.

would a real 440 daytona with a hemi added to it command much more than the same car without it? i would think it's more valuable with a numbers matching 440 than with the hemi.
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ernie helderbrand - 409053
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« Reply #316 on: April 17, 2017, 09:32:57 PM »

and mike, speaking of the sum of the parts, do you have set prices on the pieces you make? i'd like to get a list of whats on hand, and what might be in the works, with or without prices. as much as i'd like to keep it all metal, i will likely have to go with a glass nose if i ever want to get the ball rolling

i need literally everything, as all of the nose pieces are gone and the car has a 70 front end on it 
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ernie helderbrand - 409053
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« Reply #317 on: April 18, 2017, 09:22:44 AM »

I do find it hard to believe that some folks on this thread are basically saying/implying  that if I built a, let say, a Hemi Charger ground up with new NOS or quality pattern or used parts and built it as well (or badly ...LOL!) as Mopar did in the late sixties....that you would pay or at least deem it to have a value the same as the original mint car.....really??.....I think not. It may just be a machine....but its not the real thing no matter how well its been put together....its a fake at worst or a replica at best. Personally I would not pay a fraction for the copy that I would pay for the real thing. And I feel neither would any serious owner/collector. Certainly not in the UK anyway. Cars that have been rebodied here (like rust prone cars such as MGs or early Italian cars)...even if every other original part has been transferred across will not make anything like the same car with its original metal.
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DAY CLONA
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« Reply #318 on: April 18, 2017, 10:31:45 AM »

I do find it hard to believe that some folks on this thread are basically saying/implying  that if I built a, let say, a Hemi Charger ground up with new NOS or quality pattern or used parts and built it as well (or badly ...LOL!) as Mopar did in the late sixties....that you would pay or at least deem it to have a value the same as the original mint car.....really??.....I think not. It may just be a machine....but its not the real thing no matter how well its been put together....its a fake at worst or a replica at best. Personally I would not pay a fraction for the copy that I would pay for the real thing. And I feel neither would any serious owner/collector. Certainly not in the UK anyway. Cars that have been rebodied here (like rust prone cars such as MGs or early Italian cars)...even if every other original part has been transferred across will not make anything like the same car with its original metal.



When I say that a quality replica is deemed the same in value as a so called "original", I'm not implying that I'd pay the ridiculous prices these cars are selling for, anybody in their right mind thinks a 69 HEMI Daytona is REALLY worth $900K?, that 71 HEMICUDA verts are worth $2-$4 million...come on

You can overpay for your Detroit made "original" trash, I'll settle for the "replica", side by side, they're the same....
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« Reply #319 on: April 18, 2017, 12:02:10 PM »

What if I told you that I know where the Watermelon "Daytona" is stored?  (missing the nose & wing, but you can still see the custom paint job)  Are you saying you would not want to buy it? 
Since it's the real one, that doesn't matter since it's just a machine?     shruggy

 
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alfaitalia
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« Reply #320 on: April 18, 2017, 02:39:22 PM »

 I'll settle for the "replica", side by side, they're the same..


No Sir...they are most certainly not....we will just have to agree to disagree!
.......but to be fair, in your business, it would be strange if you had the other point of view...so fair enough.
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« Reply #321 on: April 18, 2017, 03:08:04 PM »

http://cars.barcroft.tv/replica-of-thirty-eight-million-dollar-ferrari-built-in-chicken-shed-new-zealand

I don't know if you guys have seen the chicken house Ferrari replica. Very high quality, but they say only worth $1 million compared to an original at $38 million.
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alfaitalia
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« Reply #322 on: April 18, 2017, 03:16:10 PM »

Wow...I would like one tenth of that guys skills.
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DAY CLONA
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« Reply #323 on: April 18, 2017, 05:08:25 PM »

What if I told you that I know where the Watermelon "Daytona" is stored?  (missing the nose & wing, but you can still see the custom paint job)  Are you saying you would not want to buy it? 
Since it's the real one, that doesn't matter since it's just a machine?     shruggy

 



Greg, seriously I'd have no interest in possessing it, IMHO I already possess it's essence in my recreation, now if it were dirt cheap, it would be fodder for another type of Charger/Daytona build, just like any other affordable Charger platform would lend itself to, I'm not wrapped up in that nostalgia, pedigree, originality, numbers matching, Provence, history or whatever other form of emotional attachment some car owners associated with owning a car, my attraction to a vehicle is just that, an attraction to it's form, be it; it's driveline, styling, performance, overall appeal, etc...nothing more, nothing less

Mike
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DAY CLONA
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« Reply #324 on: April 18, 2017, 05:15:54 PM »

I'll settle for the "replica", side by side, they're the same..


No Sir...they are most certainly not....we will just have to agree to disagree!
.......but to be fair, in your business, it would be strange if you had the other point of view...so fair enough.



Actually from a structural/mechanical aspect the replica would be a far better product, the attention to the build, detail, assembly, construction, overall finish, materials used, etc would be FAR SUPERIOR than the factory assembled mass production unit, assuming the builder was of a fastidious nature

Mike
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