2095191 Alternator - Amps

[CRW-FK5]

The alternator on my car is bad.  P/N on back is 2095191.  Does anyone know what amperage this would be?

[Dino]

I think that's the casting number. What are the numbers stamped on the flat area by the terminal?

[Nacho-RT74]

One same cast can get several setups inside. I don't think the cast number will be really helpfull

[CRW-FK5]

I see a W-5578 cast in on the other side.  Nothing stamped anywhere though.

[68 RT]

It looks like a rebuild? If so could be almost anything. I would guess 40a since its a single pulley, double would be 60a

[CRW-FK5]

It looks like a rebuild? If so could be almost anything. I would guess 40a since its a single pulley, double would be 60a

Thanks.  Any idea if that is too low of an amperage for 440?

[Dino]

That's low for a Yugo!   

I could never have my wipers go at idle, let alone have anything else running. I upgraded to a 90A alt and all is well now!   

There's a place that sells upgraded internals so you can keep the original case. I can't remember who it was...

[CRW-FK5]

That's low for a Yugo!   

I could never have my wipers go at idle, let alone have anything else running. I upgraded to a 90A alt and all is well now!   

There's a place that sells upgraded internals so you can keep the original case. I can't remember who it was...

Are you still running through stock ammeter with that alt?  I still am.  Concerned about increasing amperage through stock system.  I know there are alternatives there but short term I'd like to run stock.

[Dino]

Oh no! That's a bit too much juice for the old ammeter. I removed it and made a stock looking volt meter. I also removed the stock wiring and ran thicker gauge wiring with big fuses.

If you want to run stock and maybe upgrade later you don't have to take it as far as I did. When you upgrade you can run a wire from the alternator to the starter relay to take most of the power out of the ammeter, but it will no longer read right. You could also just disconnect the ammeter altogether. Or you can buy a repro ammeter rated for 64 amps but you'll still be limited in how big of an alternator you can get.

More knowledgeable people will hopefully chime in on this.

[Nacho-RT74]

Once again, you can get a thousands amps alt, but if the car demands is just from 30 to 45 the alt just will provide that, if the alt speed is able to do it.

The power going thought the amm is just to recharge the batt or feed the car when the engine is off and/or alt is not able to give juice. If everything is correctly wired of course.

STOP TO THINK THE ALT SPEC SOURCE WILL RUN THROUGH THE AMM! That's a myth.

Of course if you have an alt not able to feed the car at iddle, you will be discharging batt, them revving up, the recharge process. So the load going through ammeter is just what the batt is demanding to be fully recharged. This back and forth load is what gets stressed the system

What we need to save the amm from the batt sucking load?  An alt able to feed the most power at posible. Something between 45 and 55 iddling.

With an alt able to feed this while iddling, the ammeter barelly will get a minimal load going through, if any.

Of course, the bigger capacity alt you can get at max output ( let's say 120 amps ) will mean is able to give the juice required for the car at minimun speeds... But as far the car the car demand is filled at low speeds, you can rev up the engine up to the spected max output alt load, but will never get that juice if car demands is not requiring that. A good regulator takes cares of that. The max output alt is just giving full field at alt brushes, and this is controlled by the regulator

And remmember, any relay upgrade being feeded from batt post is a BIG MISTAKE on ammeter cars. Must be feeded from alt side or some junction box between alt and ammeter.

On a stock car with an alt upgrade the only REAL demand for a wiring upgrade could be the black thick wire going from alt stud up to ammeter, and not because the wire like really the weakness of the packard 56 terminals at bulkhead. Then also the wire going back to starter relay stud/batt for same reason, but even this COULD be obvioused.

Read the stickied thread about that.

[Pete in NH]

Hi,

The alternator in your photo is a "square back" from a 72 on up. If not messed with by a rebuilder it would be a 60 amp unit. It was meant to be used with the newer electronic regulators used from 70 on up. If used on a 68 or 69, connect the green field wire to one field terminal and ground the other. I would not go any bigger in alternator output on a stock wiring system than this 60 amp unit. Even at that the wiring will be very marginal.

[CRW-FK5]

Thanks, all.  I see that my O'Reilly's has a couple of different 60A's.  One made by Ultima and another made by Wilson (about $5 more).  Any feedback from either of there mfrs?

[Nacho-RT74]

60 amps alt are quite good, but if you ask me, will try to get 78 amps alt used on 80s Mopars.

These are a bit different from 60s alts, but still quite stock look. And these are dual field feeded, while 60s cars are single field. Easy to save just grounding one of the fields

I can't say anything about those you mentioned. I'm not in/from USA.

Edited a bit the previous post giving more info.

[Nacho-RT74]

That's something if you want on the cheap.

For a better upgrade, go with tuffstuff products and similars

The internals upgrades being sold doesn't worth a penny. Already tried 80 amps upgrade from quickstart long time ago, and it was the same than nothing. Thanks God didn't spend they price since somebody was selling cheap one set on ebay.

[Nacho-RT74]

Aaand, I have being running one supposelly rated 100 amps mopar alt on my car since looong time ago, with the parallel to bulkhead path upgrade up to ammeter, and really happy with it. And my car used to be a driver with A/C living in a tropical country.

Used to be, just because is at body job at this moment, but will be my driver again.

[CRW-FK5]

Once again, you can get a thousands amps alt, but if the car demands is just from 30 to 45 the alt just will provide that, if the alt speed is able to do it.

The power going thought the amm is just to recharge the batt or feed the car when the engine is off and/or alt is not able to give juice. If everything is correctly wired of course.

STOP TO THINK THE ALT SPEC SOURCE WILL RUN THROUGH THE AMM! That's a myth.

Of course if you have an alt not able to feed the car at iddle, you will be discharging batt, them revving up, the recharge process. So the load going through ammeter is just what the batt is demanding to be fully recharged. This back and forth load is what gets stressed the system

What we need to save the amm from the batt sucking load?  An alt able to feed the most power at posible. Something between 45 and 55 iddling.

With an alt able to feed this while iddling, the ammeter barelly will get a minimal load going through, if any.

Of course, the bigger capacity alt you can get at max output ( let's say 120 amps ) will mean is able to give the juice required for the car at minimun speeds... But as far the car the car demand is filled at low speeds, you can rev up the engine up to the spected max output alt load, but will never get that juice if car demands is not requiring that. A good regulator takes cares of that. The max output alt is just giving full field at alt brushes, and this is controlled by the regulator

And remmember, any relay upgrade being feeded from batt post is a BIG MISTAKE on ammeter cars. Must be feeded from alt side or some junction box between alt and ammeter.

On a stock car with an alt upgrade the only REAL demand for a wiring upgrade could be the black thick wire going from alt stud up to ammeter, and not because the wire like really the weakness of the packard 56 terminals at bulkhead. Then also the wire going back to starter relay stud/batt for same reason, but even this COULD be obvioused.

Read the stickied thread about that.

Thanks.  I have read the other post you mentioned and it is very interesting.  Just so I understand the basic idea, you are saying that the systems drawing load (radio, lights, etc...) will determine the amp flow, not the capacity of the alternator.  So even if you have a very large capacity (amperage) alternator, if the demands are not high you will not see high amperage flow.  And at idle, when the output capability of the alternator is at its lowest and typically not able to meet the demands of the other system draws (resulting in a discharge from the battery), you could actually see a benefit from the higher amperage alternator compared to a lower rated one relative to light dimming at night, etc....  Is this basically correct?

Would there be any concerns in a scenario where the voltage regulator goes out and the higher amp alternator now unloads unregulated amperage through the system, possibly to a battery that has a low charge?  Just wondering if there are any drawbacks to going with a higher amp alternator.  

Thanks, again for your input.

[Nacho-RT74]

Thanks.  I have read the other post you mentioned and it is very interesting.  Just so I understand the basic idea, you are saying that the systems drawing load (radio, lights, etc...) will determine the amp flow, not the capacity of the alternator.  So even if you have a very large capacity (amperage) alternator, if the demands are not high you will not see high amperage flow.  And at idle, when the output capability of the alternator is at its lowest and typically not able to meet the demands of the other system draws (resulting in a discharge from the battery), you could actually see a benefit from the higher amperage alternator compared to a lower rated one relative to light dimming at night, etc....  Is this basically correct?

it is exactly that

Would there be any concerns in a scenario where the voltage regulator goes out and the higher amp alternator now unloads unregulated amperage through the system, possibly to a battery that has a low charge?  Just wondering if there are any drawbacks to going with a higher amp alternator. 

Thanks, again for your input.

There is more benefits than drawbacks. The main benefit is the battery will keep more charged than discharged, hence the steady reading on ammeter, which is the main goal on this. Steady needle reading ( or barelly moving ) on ammeter at death center, will mean no load going through and battery kept safe.

Of course with a damaged regulator you can get both stages... absolutelly no load coming from alt, or get a full fielded alt. A full fielded alt will overcharge the batt and of course an unnecesary charge reading on ammeter, like the bat was requesting to be recharged.

On second stage, which is the one could get some damage around, you can save a large bit of the load going through ammeter up to batt, turning on everythig on car able to suck power... high beams, Radio, A/C or Heater Blower, rear deffog... whichever sucks power. This devices sucks power before the ammeter, straigh from alternator. That is of course they are correctly feeded. If you made a relay upgrade from batt side, will get worst

and of course, this would be a temporal solution if happens on the road, untill arrive up to the parts dealer, mech shop, or home

[CRW-FK5]

Thanks.  I have read the other post you mentioned and it is very interesting.  Just so I understand the basic idea, you are saying that the systems drawing load (radio, lights, etc...) will determine the amp flow, not the capacity of the alternator.  So even if you have a very large capacity (amperage) alternator, if the demands are not high you will not see high amperage flow.  And at idle, when the output capability of the alternator is at its lowest and typically not able to meet the demands of the other system draws (resulting in a discharge from the battery), you could actually see a benefit from the higher amperage alternator compared to a lower rated one relative to light dimming at night, etc....  Is this basically correct?

it is exactly that

Would there be any concerns in a scenario where the voltage regulator goes out and the higher amp alternator now unloads unregulated amperage through the system, possibly to a battery that has a low charge?  Just wondering if there are any drawbacks to going with a higher amp alternator. 

Thanks, again for your input.

There is more benefits than drawbacks. The main benefit is the battery will keep more charged than discharged, hence the steady reading on ammeter, which is the main goal on this. Steady needle reading ( or barelly moving ) on ammeter at death center, will mean no load going through and battery kept safe.

Of course with a damaged regulator you can get both stages... absolutelly no load coming from alt, or get a full fielded alt. A full fielded alt will overcharge the batt and of course an unnecesary charge reading on ammeter, like the bat was requesting to be recharged.

On second stage, which is the one could get some damage around, you can save a large bit of the load going through ammeter up to batt, turning on everythig on car able to suck power... high beams, Radio, A/C or Heater Blower, rear deffog... whichever sucks power. This devices sucks power before the ammeter, straigh from alternator. That is of course they are correctly feeded. If you made a relay upgrade from batt side, will get worst

and of course, this would be a temporal solution if happens on the road, untill arrive up to the parts dealer, mech shop, or home

Understood.  Thank you.

[Nacho-RT74]

allong with the parallel path upgrade, saving the bulkhead terminals. Not really due the wires, its really because the terminals on bulkhead... Black one is mandatory. Red one COULD be obviussed, but if you are gonna make it, better make both at once.

[Nacho-RT74]

need to consider also your fields setup. Looking at your avatar, it seems you got a 69 ? which is mech regulator single field setup.

You can either get an "aftermarket" high output alternator matched to your car ( powermaster, DBelectrical, Tuffstuff, quickstar... all of these rated in $120-200 ), or get a fairly cheap replacement 78 amps lates70s-80s Mopars alt ( some are rated on more amperage and all are rated in $50-70 ) which are dual field prongs, and get the job to make it work on your single field setup. Fairly easy:

Ground with a terminal and wire one of the brushes terminals

or

replace the isolation washer on brush prong with a metallic one... if you do that I would cut or bend the prong to keep safe from a short if you plug there the field coming from regulator on your wiring setup. This will make a cleaner look on back of alt

If is a 70... you should be already on electronic dual field setup charging system from factory, so you are done

[Pete in NH]

While Nacho is correct that the alternator will only supply the current required by the car's electrical demands at the time, I think you are wise as you state to consider what could happen if something fails or goes wrong. That is where a big alternator can cause problems. As Nacho says the bulk head connector pins on these cars are a big source of problems especially after 40+ years of age and corrosion. Chrysler had a factory modification for 60 amp alternators on these cars right from the factory called the "Fleet Bypass Modification". You will find it in the shop manuals for cars like police cars and taxi's with 60 amp alternators. This modification bypasses the bulkhead connector pins, which Chrysler knew where marginal even with 45 amp alternators.

My take on all this is, these cars are 40+ year old designs and and you really can't compare them to newer cars or expect the electrical systems to perform like new ones do. My 71 does just fine with its 45 amp alternator. Yes, the lights do dim at idle but that's what these cars do and did even when new.

[CRW-FK5]

While Nacho is correct that the alternator will only supply the current required by the car's electrical demands at the time, I think you are wise as you state to consider what could happen if something fails or goes wrong. That is where a big alternator can cause problems. As Nacho says the bulk head connector pins on these cars are a big source of problems especially after 40+ years of age and corrosion. Chrysler had a factory modification for 60 amp alternators on these cars right from the factory called the "Fleet Bypass Modification". You will find it in the shop manuals for cars like police cars and taxi's with 60 amp alternators. This modification bypasses the bulkhead connector pins, which Chrysler knew where marginal even with 45 amp alternators.

My take on all this is, these cars are 40+ year old designs and and you really can't compare them to newer cars or expect the electrical systems to perform like new ones do. My 71 does just fine with its 45 amp alternator. Yes, the lights do dim at idle but that's what these cars do and did even when new.

I hear ya.  My car shouldn't be drawing much anyway (no A/C, electric fans, high powered stereo, etc...), but does have a very notable issue with light dimming (headlights and interior lights) and actually radio cutting out when lights are on, brake pedal pushed, and idling (see my other post on topic), so that's why the higher amp alternator is of interest to me.  I actually went down to O'reilly's yesterday and picked up a 60 amp for $52.  i was going to install it and see if the issue with dimming improved at least to the point where the radio didn't cut out.  When I got home, however, I found I couldn't even spin the thing.  Something was binding in the armature.  So I'm just going to returning it and have my old one rebuilt to a 75 amp one ($80) instead.  I'll later plan on running a solid wire to the ammeter to minimize fire risk from bulkhead connection.

[MoParJW]

In 10 years I've used up 4 reman alternators from different sources, never impressed with the quality of these things, and only one had good output at idle for some reason.
I'm done with the originals and bought a brand new 90 amp Powermaster recently.

[Nacho-RT74]

My car shouldn't be drawing much anyway (no A/C, electric fans, high powered stereo, etc...), but does have a very notable issue with light dimming (headlights and interior lights) and actually radio cutting out when lights are on, brake pedal pushed, and idling (see my other post on topic), so that's why the higher amp alternator is of interest to me.  I actually went down to O'reilly's yesterday and picked up a 60 amp for $52.  i was going to install it and see if the issue with dimming improved at least to the point where the radio didn't cut out.  When I got home, however, I found I couldn't even spin the thing.  Something was binding in the armature.  So I'm just going to returning it and have my old one rebuilt to a 75 amp one ($80) instead.  I'll later plan on running a solid wire to the ammeter to minimize fire risk from bulkhead connection.

even 60 amps just for that could be fairly enough, 78 amps are definitelly way better.

need to note, if you have standard headlights ( No halogen ) and decide to keep on stock system without relays upgrades, part of the dimming lights, even some of that is a factory "failure" due the low charge capacity, the years adds more to this. Could come from loosen and dirty terminals all around. Sure the straight path between amm and alt post will save lot of that, but will be nice to check and get all mantenience. It's time to do it. Nobody takes care of electricity untill fails.

Check headlights switch plug, floor dimmer switch plug, bulkhead forward harness plug and light beams plugs

[CRW-FK5]

In 10 years I've used up 4 reman alternators from different sources, never impressed with the quality of these things, and only one had good output at idle for some reason.
I'm done with the originals and bought a brand new 90 amp Powermaster recently.

Good to know.  Thanks.

[CRW-FK5]

My car shouldn't be drawing much anyway (no A/C, electric fans, high powered stereo, etc...), but does have a very notable issue with light dimming (headlights and interior lights) and actually radio cutting out when lights are on, brake pedal pushed, and idling (see my other post on topic), so that's why the higher amp alternator is of interest to me.  I actually went down to O'reilly's yesterday and picked up a 60 amp for $52.  i was going to install it and see if the issue with dimming improved at least to the point where the radio didn't cut out.  When I got home, however, I found I couldn't even spin the thing.  Something was binding in the armature.  So I'm just going to returning it and have my old one rebuilt to a 75 amp one ($80) instead.  I'll later plan on running a solid wire to the ammeter to minimize fire risk from bulkhead connection.

even 60 amps just for that could be fairly enough, 78 amps are definitelly way better.

need to note, if you have standard headlights ( No halogen ) and decide to keep on stock system without relays upgrades, part of the dimming lights, even some of that is a factory "failure" due the low charge capacity, the years adds more to this. Could come from loosen and dirty terminals all around. Sure the straight path between amm and alt post will save lot of that, but will be nice to check and get all mantenience. It's time to do it. Nobody takes care of electricity untill fails.

Check headlights switch plug, floor dimmer switch plug, bulkhead forward harness plug and light beams plugs

Great advise.  Will see how the 78 amp alternator goes and will make further changes as needed, but will definitely include bypassing the bulkhead connector.  I have checked a few of the headlight connections but will double check. 

[Nacho-RT74]

78 amps alt is a bitty wider. Maybe couple of milimeters. Can fit tight but still will fit. Rear spacer can be trimmed out if needed.

Sometimes for same reason could need ( depending on year and engine setup ) a bit longer belts too, because for same reason, rear housing can meet or be really close to the block, untill kiss it a bit, so need to keep alt out of the block area.

In my car had to do both... Trim a bit the rear spacer and a bit longer belts

[Nacho-RT74]

Here they are side by side. Allmost unnoticeable, but it is. This extra wideness is due the bigger cassing and bigger stator inside, which is what gives more juice.

Despite the pulleys diff



Smaller pulley makes also a huge difference, no matter if single or double, but smaller as posible. It does exist single groove small diameter too

Earliers 60/65 amps used since 75/76 are also like these on the right, wider.

[CRW-FK5]

78 amps alt is a bitty wider. Maybe couple of milimeters. Can fit tight but still will fit. Rear spacer can be trimmed out if needed.

Sometimes for same reason could need ( depending on year and engine setup ) a bit longer belts too, because for same reason, rear housing can meet or be really close to the block, untill kiss it a bit, so need to keep alt out of the block area.

In my car had to do both... Trim a bit the rear spacer and a bit longer belts

I just dropped my alternator off at local rebuilder who says he can build to achieve 70A (not sure what it is now but post '70 design so likely 60A).  Any higher would require more difficult to get parts, according to him.  He found 2 diodes completely missing on mine.

[Nacho-RT74]

that could be great!

Mostly of the times the stator windings ( turns and gauge of wire ) is the main deal on this. there is a thread on FBBO about a custom job made on the stator, not cheap though. will post

[Nacho-RT74]

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/had-alternator-hand-rewound.116601/