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Seen this on Facebook about Arsonist

Started by Drache, July 15, 2017, 12:33:21 PM

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Drache

QuoteSo this just happened. At approximately 3:35 this morning, some disgusting piece of human feces threw fireworks through the flap window of Nino's 1970 Mustang Mach I, torching what is the most beloved thing in the world to a 7 year-old disabled boy. If anybody has any information about this incident that occurred near Eastgate, between Sunshine and Cherry, please message me, or contact the Springfield Police Department.

Feel free to share this post, in hopes of getting information.

Update - The fire marshall confirmed that the fire was started with a handfull of Zip fireworks, those spinning blooms/flowers. The arsonists also apparently started other small fires and then burned a trash dumpster a couple streets away.

Nino has been informed about his car. Aside from saying some choice words about "those idiots being in big trouble," Nino has taken the news like a brave boy. He is sure that we can make it like new.







Dart
Racing
Ass
Chasing
Hellion
Extraordinaire

Lennard


JB400



Aero426

Exhibit A for why collector car insurers want your car stored locked in a garage.   

RCCDrew

Haters. Some people always get jealous if they see you with something nice.

BrianShaughnessy

Just curious what a classic is doing outside overnight...   :scratchchin:

   My policy says they need to be in the garage.   :shruggy: 


And yes it sucks and all but it was probably preventable.  :Twocents:
Black Betty:  1969 Charger R/T - X9 440 six pack, TKO600 5 speed, 3.73 Dana 60.
Sinnamon:  1969 Charger R/T - T5 440, 727, 3.23 8 3/4 high school sweetheart.

Troy

Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on July 16, 2017, 07:02:35 PM
Just curious what a classic is doing outside overnight...   :scratchchin:

   My policy says they need to be in the garage.   :shruggy: 


And yes it sucks and all but it was probably preventable.  :Twocents:
I saw the original post (and traced it back to the person who made it). Nothing it it suggests that they don't have insurance that will cover the car. Now, who knows if they'll have a fight to get paid! Not everyone has "classic" car insurance but, even so, not every classic car policy requires the car to be in a locked garage overnight. It does seem silly to "save" money by not paying the premiums for special insurance but it happens. I daily drove an old car for many, many years with just basic liability insurance to keep myself legal. I also parked it on the street and drove it in bad weather. I probably wouldn't do it today (although my 76 Power Wagon was insured like this).

Troy
Sarcasm detector, that's a real good invention.

BrianShaughnessy

Quote from: Troy on July 16, 2017, 08:44:26 PM
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on July 16, 2017, 07:02:35 PM
Just curious what a classic is doing outside overnight...   :scratchchin:

   My policy says they need to be in the garage.   :shruggy: 


And yes it sucks and all but it was probably preventable.  :Twocents:
I saw the original post (and traced it back to the person who made it). Nothing it it suggests that they don't have insurance that will cover the car. Now, who knows if they'll have a fight to get paid! Not everyone has "classic" car insurance but, even so, not every classic car policy requires the car to be in a locked garage overnight. It does seem silly to "save" money by not paying the premiums for special insurance but it happens. I daily drove an old car for many, many years with just basic liability insurance to keep myself legal. I also parked it on the street and drove it in bad weather. I probably wouldn't do it today (although my 76 Power Wagon was insured like this).

Troy



  I dunno...   every classic ins. co. I ever talked to wanted car in the garage...   :shruggy:  If they're running a car like that on liability only thru a regular ins. co. then they got questionable priorities.
  Meanwhile I see a brick house in a nice neighborhood and a Beamer in the driveway also.      Perhaps these folks are more concerned with protecting a lawn tractor, a dusty treadmill and some bicycles with flat tires.    :Twocents:
Black Betty:  1969 Charger R/T - X9 440 six pack, TKO600 5 speed, 3.73 Dana 60.
Sinnamon:  1969 Charger R/T - T5 440, 727, 3.23 8 3/4 high school sweetheart.

alfaitalia

If it was just started with those fireworks and the interior of the car was the seat of the fire as it looks ion the pics then it must have been unlocked or with a window down......of course they could have smashed the glass too.....all just guesswork really!!!

Quite a brave/stupid thing to do in a country where so many of you have guns I would have thought!!
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you !!

Aero426

Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on July 16, 2017, 07:02:35 PM
Just curious what a classic is doing outside overnight...   :scratchchin:

   My policy says they need to be in the garage.   :shruggy: 


And yes it sucks and all but it was probably preventable.  :Twocents:

I agree.   Totally preventable.    Who leaves a car like that parked outside right by the road overnight?    Yes, I know we can go places, visit people etc.  Don't know the whole story. 

To Troy's point,  it could certainly be well insured.   My gut tells me he had regular insurance as a driver.   If he has comp, he should still get "actual cash value"  and being a '69 Mach, he would still come out OK.     

Drache

The mustang was usually in the Garage but was parked outside due to the Garage being full for a garage sale they were having that weekend. They had it that morning and the next morning

Dart
Racing
Ass
Chasing
Hellion
Extraordinaire

Troy

Quote from: alfaitalia on July 17, 2017, 08:56:55 AM
If it was just started with those fireworks and the interior of the car was the seat of the fire as it looks ion the pics then it must have been unlocked or with a window down......of course they could have smashed the glass too.....all just guesswork really!!!

Quite a brave/stupid thing to do in a country where so many of you have guns I would have thought!!
They put them through the flip out rear windows. It's illegal to shoot someone just for messing with your stuff. It's not the wild west...

Troy
Sarcasm detector, that's a real good invention.

alfaitalia

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you !!

RCCDrew

Quote from: Troy on July 17, 2017, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: alfaitalia on July 17, 2017, 08:56:55 AM
If it was just started with those fireworks and the interior of the car was the seat of the fire as it looks ion the pics then it must have been unlocked or with a window down......of course they could have smashed the glass too.....all just guesswork really!!!

Quite a brave/stupid thing to do in a country where so many of you have guns I would have thought!!
They put them through the flip out rear windows. It's illegal to shoot someone just for messing with your stuff. It's not the wild west...

Troy

Well, in Texas it's loosely called the castle law. And that extends to your vehicle. I believe the arson would make it justified.

What about defense of property? The use of deadly force to protect property is contained in Texas Penal Code §9.42. This section of the law lays out a couple of scenarios where you are justified in reasonably using deadly force to protect your property. The first is if someone is committing trespass or interference with your property and you must reasonably use deadly force to prevent arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during the nighttime. If someone is unlawfully on your property and attempting to commit any of these crimes, you will gain the legal justification for using deadly force.

1974dodgecharger


alfaitalia

Quote from: RCCDrew on July 17, 2017, 11:18:31 PM
Quote from: Troy on July 17, 2017, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: alfaitalia on July 17, 2017, 08:56:55 AM
If it was just started with those fireworks and the interior of the car was the seat of the fire as it looks ion the pics then it must have been unlocked or with a window down......of course they could have smashed the glass too.....all just guesswork really!!!

Quite a brave/stupid thing to do in a country where so many of you have guns I would have thought!!
They put them through the flip out rear windows. It's illegal to shoot someone just for messing with your stuff. It's not the wild west...

Troy

Well, in Texas it's loosely called the castle law. And that extends to your vehicle. I believe the arson would make it justified.

What about defense of property? The use of deadly force to protect property is contained in Texas Penal Code §9.42. This section of the law lays out a couple of scenarios where you are justified in reasonably using deadly force to protect your property. The first is if someone is committing trespass or interference with your property and you must reasonably use deadly force to prevent arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during the nighttime. If someone is unlawfully on your property and attempting to commit any of these crimes, you will gain the legal justification for using deadly force.


....even if they are not armed?.....just curious!
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you !!

RCCDrew

Quote from: alfaitalia on July 18, 2017, 04:06:58 AM
Quote from: RCCDrew on July 17, 2017, 11:18:31 PM
Quote from: Troy on July 17, 2017, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: alfaitalia on July 17, 2017, 08:56:55 AM
If it was just started with those fireworks and the interior of the car was the seat of the fire as it looks ion the pics then it must have been unlocked or with a window down......of course they could have smashed the glass too.....all just guesswork really!!!

Quite a brave/stupid thing to do in a country where so many of you have guns I would have thought!!
They put them through the flip out rear windows. It's illegal to shoot someone just for messing with your stuff. It's not the wild west...

Troy

Well, in Texas it's loosely called the castle law. And that extends to your vehicle. I believe the arson would make it justified.

What about defense of property? The use of deadly force to protect property is contained in Texas Penal Code §9.42. This section of the law lays out a couple of scenarios where you are justified in reasonably using deadly force to protect your property. The first is if someone is committing trespass or interference with your property and you must reasonably use deadly force to prevent arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during the nighttime. If someone is unlawfully on your property and attempting to commit any of these crimes, you will gain the legal justification for using deadly force.


....even if they are not armed?.....just curious!
They don't have to be armed to commit aggraved robbery or arson.

alfaitalia

True... but seems a bit wrong to shoot an unarmed man... :shruggy:
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you !!

lukedukem

Quote from: RCCDrew on July 17, 2017, 11:18:31 PM
Quote from: Troy on July 17, 2017, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: alfaitalia on July 17, 2017, 08:56:55 AM
If it was just started with those fireworks and the interior of the car was the seat of the fire as it looks ion the pics then it must have been unlocked or with a window down......of course they could have smashed the glass too.....all just guesswork really!!!

Quite a brave/stupid thing to do in a country where so many of you have guns I would have thought!!
They put them through the flip out rear windows. It's illegal to shoot someone just for messing with your stuff. It's not the wild west...

Troy

Well, in Texas it's loosely called the castle law. And that extends to your vehicle. I believe the arson would make it justified.

What about defense of property? The use of deadly force to protect property is contained in Texas Penal Code §9.42. This section of the law lays out a couple of scenarios where you are justified in reasonably using deadly force to protect your property. The first is if someone is committing trespass or interference with your property and you must reasonably use deadly force to prevent arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during the nighttime. If someone is unlawfully on your property and attempting to commit any of these crimes, you will gain the legal justification for using deadly force.

:yesnod:

I'm from Texas too, and Even though this law exist in Texas, if the owner of this car caught and killed the guy, in these times he still would've had to defend himself in court. a jury of his peers would need to be convinced as to why he had to shoot and kill the guy. likely with today's political correctness everywhere, they might convict him stating that he could've just let it happen, call police, and claim it on insurance. but whose to say the fire starter would've  stopped with the car, he might be a crystal meth tweeker and you and your house or family would be next.  :2guns:


Luke
1969 Charger XP29F9B226768
1981 CJ7 I6 258ci
2016 F150, 5.0, FX4, CC

alfaitalia

I don't think the court would allow you to shoot him on the grounds of "what he might do" at a later date!!
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you !!

lukedukem

Quote from: alfaitalia on July 18, 2017, 08:34:17 AM
I don't think the court would allow you to shoot him on the grounds of "what he might do" at a later date!!

That's why i said "a jury of his peers would need to be convinced"

you'd be surprised what a lawyer can say and do to convince them.

Luke
1969 Charger XP29F9B226768
1981 CJ7 I6 258ci
2016 F150, 5.0, FX4, CC

Troy

Quote from: RCCDrew on July 17, 2017, 11:18:31 PM
Quote from: Troy on July 17, 2017, 03:33:37 PM
Quote from: alfaitalia on July 17, 2017, 08:56:55 AM
If it was just started with those fireworks and the interior of the car was the seat of the fire as it looks ion the pics then it must have been unlocked or with a window down......of course they could have smashed the glass too.....all just guesswork really!!!

Quite a brave/stupid thing to do in a country where so many of you have guns I would have thought!!
They put them through the flip out rear windows. It's illegal to shoot someone just for messing with your stuff. It's not the wild west...

Troy

Well, in Texas it's loosely called the castle law. And that extends to your vehicle. I believe the arson would make it justified.

What about defense of property? The use of deadly force to protect property is contained in Texas Penal Code §9.42. This section of the law lays out a couple of scenarios where you are justified in reasonably using deadly force to protect your property. The first is if someone is committing trespass or interference with your property and you must reasonably use deadly force to prevent arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during the nighttime. If someone is unlawfully on your property and attempting to commit any of these crimes, you will gain the legal justification for using deadly force.
It was a generic statement due to the inference that we're all just bristling with guns ready to battle it out at any time. While one *could* be proven innocent, it's expensive, mentally draining, and time consuming. I know of at least one person who has done it though. Twice! If you kill someone without a direct threat on your life you're going to have a bad day. Some states may be more lenient but I am not quite willing to try and see. ;)

Quote from: alfaitalia on July 17, 2017, 05:41:25 PM
Do they not lock.....?
They have a flip handle much like the vent windows on 69-70 Chargers. Even when open it's only a gap of 2-3" at the very back. They wouldn't be able to get much else in there.

Quote from: alfaitalia on July 18, 2017, 07:28:38 AM
True... but seems a bit wrong to shoot an unarmed man... :shruggy:
Nope. Does a person need to be armed to cause you great harm? On the flip side, one thing I learned in martial arts is that having a weapon yourself opens up the opportunity for the attacker to take it. Then you're kind of hosed! :) So again, in this case, even though I detest people who destroy other people's property, I wouldn't be unloading a gun on people damaging a car. BUT, if they are a threat to my life I am not going to fight fairly. Would you? There's no time to sit around thinking about the proper level of response like the government does. Besides, just because you can't see a weapon doesn't mean there isn't one. Reaction is always slower than action so by the time you realize the situation has changed you are too late.

And shooting a gun draws attention. Better to track them down silently and hide the bodies... :P

Troy
Sarcasm detector, that's a real good invention.

Aero426

Torching a parked car is arguably not an offense that will let the homeowner just up and shoot the perp if there is no threat to their life.      Deserved?  Yes.   But the courts will see it differently.  

JB400

Considering the fact that these people do this stuff just to get attention, the best thing to do is nothing at all. :Twocents:

RCCDrew

Quote from: alfaitalia on July 18, 2017, 07:28:38 AM
True... but seems a bit wrong to shoot an unarmed man... :shruggy:
Seems a bit wrong to commit arson and steal from a person as well. If you think this real law doesn't apply in Texas, Google Joe Horn. He shot two robbers dead stealing from his NEIGHBORS house... wasn't even indicted.

That being said I would not shoot a person unless me or my family's lives were in danger. But hopefully these kinds of laws will deter people from breaking the law.