DAYTONA-SUPERBIRD TRUNK WEATHER STRIPS FACTORY AND NOS QUESTIONS?

[Mopar John]

I have been in several discussions about factory and NOS trunk weather strips for our Daytonas and Superbirds.
I have attached 4 pictures to help with the discussion.
The first is a picture of an NOS trunk weather strip that was installed on our Daytona showing the master roll part number 2482852 DX followed by 2 small D's over a small C and D.
The second picture shows what looks like a molded corner to me on the Daytona.
The third picture shows a factory trunk weather strip installed on our Superbird showing the same master roll part number 2482852 DX.
The last picture shows what also looks like a molded corner to me on the Superbird.
So here go the questions:
#1 Has anyone seen an original Daytona or Superbird weather strip with out the 2482852 DX part number?
#2 Does any one know if the original weather strips were just cut off a roll and glued on?
#3 Were the original weather strips molded to fit each trunk opening?
#4 Were NOS weather strips molded to fit each car thus the different part numbers?
Thanks! MJ

[62 Max]

Here's mine,it's my understanding it was roll material,with the  24 sequence part number it would begin around 64/65 and was probably a fits all application cut to fit.

[6bblgt]

there was a specific moulded trunk seal to fit each body style

consisting of the straight lengths with and without "lip" & corners seamed together for each part #

[odcics2]

there was a specific moulded trunk seal to fit each body style

consisting of the straight lengths with and without "lip" & corners seamed together for each part #

I agree, hence different part numbers for OEM.
After the fact, NOS from MoPar would have been "off the roll", after the OEM parts ran out, for service.

All the cars we like have that part number on an original piece.   If it fits correctly, then it's original.
If it doesn't, but has right number, it's off the roll, but NOS.  

If this is real, this guy below has gold to the right guy...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/69-1969-Dodge-Daytona-Charger-RT-500-NOS-Trunk-Weatherstrip-2838149-OE-GOLD-RARE-/252386404371?hash=item3ac366e813:g:ZLIAAOSwInxXM18N&vxp=mtr

You'd have to see if it fits right in the opening before buying!  

I'm glad my race Daytona ran without one of these!   

[hemigeno]

...followed by 2 small D's over a small C and D.

Trivia factoid for the day...

That logo you referenced (DPCD) stood for Dodge / Plymouth / Chrysler / Desoto



As for '69 Charger 500 & Daytona trunk weatherstrip (and most all of the other A&B body weatherstripping, for that matter), I don't think you'll find the corners were molded.  A new seal will easily conform to the radius of that corner, with the same amount of wrinkling.  Based on my observations, the fastback's seal was modified from the original Hamtramck-installed material.  The best that Vance (Cummins) and I could tell, they may have cut / pulled the original seal loose from the trunk lip starting at the top and going about halfway down the sides.  That allowed the plug's installation to proceed without interference.  We are pretty confident the original seal was cut at the new & much sharper corner - either partly, or all the way through (I've seen both, probably depended on the Creative Industries worker) - to make the upper corner, then re-glued.

See attached pic from an untouched, 11k mile Daytona, which was cut all the way through.  Other original seals which weren't cut all the way through lead me to believe the original Charger upper corners were never molded... they couldn't be, or the seal would not have been able to be straightened out to conform with the straight lip across the top.  The bottom corners are fairly rounded (moreso than the original top corners even, IIRC), which leads me to believe they didn't have to be molded either.

I've heard (but can't prove) the same as 62Max - that this particular OEM assembly plant weatherstrip material was in bulk, from a roll, and cut to fit on each car.  That's why you'll see the same molded part number on Coronets, etc.  From my observation, the single seam is usually glued (sometimes rather crudely) at the bottom near the trunk latch.  A mis-cut seal got a short filler piece to make up the difference.  I've not observed that joint to be molded or heat-seamed myself, but that's just me.  All the NOS trunk weatherstrips I've seen were simply a specific length of the same OEM material... cut for a specific model (perhaps with a little extra to account for any shrinkage), with no molded corners.

I won't argue the point either way, all I'm doing is relaying my observations.  Your mileage may vary.

[Mopar John]

Thanks for the comments and please keep them coming in!
So far no one claiming to have a weather strip with out the 2482852 part number!
As a possible hint of the molded corner theory take a look at my second picture.
There is a molded line about where the corner would end on the top?
MJ

[hemigeno]

There is a molded line about where the corner would end on the top?

Hey John,

I looked at your pic earlier and wondered if that detail might have contributed to the notion.  But, I'm pretty confident that line is/was part of the bulk weatherstripping manufacturing process.  Plus - there are examples of original weatherstrips without any such line near the corner.  There would likely be a corresponding line on the opposite end of the radius too, and on the other corner of your decklid opening as well.  More than likely that placement was the luck-of-the-draw (roll) that the mold line fell there.  I'm going to try and check with a local gent who worked for a company that still manufactures a line of weatherstrip products for GM using an extrusion process.  I'm not sure if the lines are a result of the extruding machine's "wheels" they utilize to reverse-emboss the repeating part number/logo info, or if it's from where they join two "noodles" together as might be required to make a large, assembly-line bulk roll.  Someone might know the manufacturing process and could confirm what's up with the lines.

If you look at that eBay auction, I'm pretty sure you can see similar lines in at least two places, probably more than that.  There's nothing at all wrong with that IMHO.  The seal set we used on my car was straight, and I'm pretty confident if you stretched Mike's out it would be straight w/ no radius or molded corners despite the presence of the lines.  Anybody got that much scratch laying around so we can find out?  

I also went through a few of my pictures again, but I don't have that many of the lower corners.  Frank Badalson's pictures of the Dressler Motors Daytona that are posted on the Winged Warriors site would cover the area well, but they are small & low enough resolution that they can't be enlarged and still show the details.  I THINK there are lines in the middle of that car's lower corner radiuses, which would negate the "this is where the radius mold starts" notion... at least in my book.  Again - your mileage may vary.

Found another original Daytona weatherstrip upper corner pic - this one with a seal which wasn't cut all the way through.  There are other examples I have of both cut-all-the-way through, and partially-cut upper corner seals.

[odcics2]

Need to see an original 68-69-70 Charger seal along the back panel and the 1/4s.
Need to see if there are any areas that are formed of hang into the trunk a bit.

Geno- Are you saying the original seal was peeled back from the front to get the plug work done and then
cut/spliced to the smaller shape, while leaving the back panel area still glued down?

[hemigeno]

Geno- Are you saying the original seal was peeled back from the front to get the plug work done and then
cut/spliced to the smaller shape, while leaving the back panel area still glued down?

Greg,

Yeah, I'm pretty confident that the common procedure was close to what you described... not that EVERY car necessarily followed that pattern, but more than a few did.  The reason for my confidence is that I've observed rather rude & crude seal splices along the top edge of the trunk opening.  That has to be where Creative Industries' workers re-glued down the original seal.  If the seal were completely removed or if a new seal were installed, there would likely be only one splice... and on these cars the splice down by the trunk latch (from Hamtramck's original seal installation work) still remains.  I really don't think the Hamtramck-installed seam would stay together if the weatherstripping were to have been completely (rather than partially) removed and re-installed.

Again - your mileage may vary.




Below is a picture from the same R4 car I posted above, showing the rough upper trunk weatherstripping "seam".  VASTLY different than the usual & customary (Hamtramck) seam down by the trunk latch.

[tan top]

there was a specific moulded trunk seal to fit each body style

consisting of the straight lengths with and without "lip" & corners seamed together for each part #

I agree, hence different part numbers for OEM.
After the fact, NOS from MoPar would have been "off the roll", after the OEM parts ran out, for service.

All the cars we like have that part number on an original piece.   If it fits correctly, then it's original.
If it doesn't, but has right number, it's off the roll, but NOS.  

If this is real, this guy below has gold to the right guy...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/69-1969-Dodge-Daytona-Charger-RT-500-NOS-Trunk-Weatherstrip-2838149-OE-GOLD-RARE-/252386404371?hash=item3ac366e813:g:ZLIAAOSwInxXM18N&vxp=mtr

You'd have to see if it fits right in the opening before buying!  

I'm glad my race Daytona ran without one of these!   

for future  reference 

[moparstuart]

April 1st 68

[moparstuart]

 

[odcics2]

DX = vendor code ?

Just sayin, cuz all the trunk weatherstrips I have seen have it...   

[69hemidaytona]

Mopar John started this thread as a result of a conversation he and I had. Roger Gibson had an NOS trunk weatherstripping which he gave me and has already installed on my car. It is definitely an NOS piece but it does not have the molded part number on it. When I asked him about this he said he has seen several original cars which did not have a molded part number on the trunk weather stripping. Recently I found two somewhat rough NOS trunk weatherstrippings for late 60s Mopars. These were both stored in their original sleeve similar to an engine belt sleeve, so much of the weatherstripping was exposed to decades of dirt and abuse. I need to clean these up and see if I can get three pieces that I can piece together for my car. The same person I bought these NOS weatherstrippings from had a third much nicer NOS trunk weatherstripping that was in it's original bag that was for a 1969 Fury. Interestingly it was identical to the NOS weatherstripping that Roger put on my car in that it has no part numbers or pentastar molded in it. My question is this: Are there any original factory trunk weatherstrippings from late 60s Mopars that do not have any numbers or pentastar molded into them?

[odcics2]

NORS - New Old Replacement Stock

I've been messing with these cars since the early 70s.
Never saw any originals without the part number or the Pentastar.

I do remember guys in the 80's at the Nats selling weatherstrips that had the same form but with no numbers or Pentastar.
That material today would be considered NORS.

[69hemidaytona]

Isn't NORS an old part that was sold at an auto parts store such as NAPA or the like? I thought all Mopar parts sold in Mopar packaging was considered NOS.

[odcics2]

Isn't NORS an old part that was sold at an auto parts store such as NAPA or the like? I thought all Mopar parts sold in Mopar packaging was considered NOS.

Crafty vendors were packaging parts in MoPar boxes and bags back in the 80's.
Those parts can still show up today - buyer beware, as they say...

I bought an NOS parking brake cable from Mitchells.  Took me months to get my money back for an NORS parts represented as OEM MoPar!!! 

[Davtona]

NORS would be like TRW ball joints, Raybestos brake shoes, Walker exhaust pipes & ect.. Generally speaking they were sold in parts stores as service replacement parts. Very usable parts they just did not come directly from Ma Mopar or match every detail of Ma Mopars parts. Even though some of those companies maybe were OEM suppliers to Mopar. I seriously doubt a aftermarket supplier ever made a trunk weather strip that matched an assembly line weather strip perfect with the exception of the part number embossed on it. They would not have matched it that close. Today I have yet to see a reproduction part that is intended to be a perfect match that is indistinguishable from an original. I would guess this is a NOS seal either a later or earlier issue.

[odcics2]

NORS would be like TRW ball joints, Raybestos brake shoes, Walker exhaust pipes & ect.. Generally speaking they were sold in parts stores as service replacement parts. Very usable parts they just did not come directly from Ma Mopar or match every detail of Ma Mopars parts. Even though some of those companies maybe were OEM suppliers to Mopar. I seriously doubt a aftermarket supplier ever made a trunk weather strip that matched an assembly line weather strip perfect with the exception of the part number embossed on it. They would not have matched it that close. Today I have yet to see a reproduction part that is intended to be a perfect match that is indistinguishable from an original. I would guess this is a NOS seal either a later or earlier version.

I have yet to see an OEM MoPar weather strip without the part number and Pentastar.
Who's to say if a vendor continued making parts without a part number-Pentastar after they were no longer production based?  You have the tooling paid for - why not squeeze them out to continue selling them, all profits to you?

Example - 1969 Cast Road Wheels.   When Chrysler pulled the plug on them, Kelsey Hayes continued to make them with the chromed outer rim.    There were many, many sets of these floating around in Windsor, Ontario, Canada.   
These are 100% NOT original MoPar wheels.   On the car, with a trim ring, they are identical to the point they also crack!

I have seen guys selling these as true MoPar wheels.  They blast off the chrome edge, paint it all black, put on the trim ring and ask 4K.   Some grind/blast the date codes off, if they are into September and October of 1969, or later.
(Kelsey had a pile of cast inners to use up, they did, and made more)

Here's a tip: Original Mopar wheels have 15 rivets holding the inner to outer. "Aftermarket" Kelsey-Hayes wheels have 10. 
You can see them from the backside, even on the car.   

What we need to see is an all original survivor Charger, 500 or Daytona that has a trunk seal without a number and Pentastar on it.  I will gladly retract my statements!   Old dogs CAN learn new tricks! 
   

[Mopar John]

My take on NORS is that is was made by someone other than Ma Mopar to replace an original part.
A later part that was made by Mopar but not the same as the car was built with would be considered a superceded or replacement part.
A great quantity of the NOS had little changes along the way that made them different than what the cars were made with.
An example of this is the 1969 Daytona voltage regulator part number 2098300.
The originals had yellow lettering. Ten years later you got the same date code with red lettering.
Many people buy these red ones for big money not knowing any better!
MJ

[Davtona]

My take on NORS is that is was made by someone other than Ma Mopar to replace an original part.
A later part that was made by Mopar but not the same as the car was built with would be considered a superceded or replacement part.
A great quantity of the NOS had little changes along the way that made them different than what the cars were made with.
An example of this is the 1969 Daytona voltage regulator part number 2098300.
The originals had yellow lettering. Ten years later you got the same date code with red lettering.
Many people buy these red ones for big money not knowing any better!
MJ

You also got with the assembly line correct yellow regulator 2 electrical crossbars across the back as opposed to the 3 bars found on almost all NOS regulators with red or yellow lettering. The red lettering can be redone in yellow the 2 vs 3 crossbars cannot. Are you checking your regulator John.    These details can be maddening for sure. It can be seen with the regulator mounted if you look just right I think.

[odcics2]

In the 80s, tons of clear plastic MoPar bags in various sizes surfaced in the Detroit area from the Centerline Parts Depot.
Guys were selling them by the pile to anybody at the Nats.
Wouldn't take much to stuff a part in the right sized bag and write the part number with a drymarker on the taped or stapled closed bag.     

[62 Max]

In the 80s, tons of clear plastic MoPar bags in various sizes surfaced in the Detroit area from the Centerline Parts Depot.
Guys were selling them by the pile to anybody at the Nats.
Wouldn't take much to stuff a part in the right sized bag and write the part number with a drymarker on the taped or stapled closed bag.     

Had lots of those at one time !

[69hemidaytona]

Just to clarify. The NOS trunk weatherstripping I saw was in an old period correct Mopar bag with the correct part number and part description preprinted on the bag like any genuine Mopar issued part from the late 60s. I looked up the part number and it was for a 69 Plymouth C body. That is the one that did not have any numbers on it but it was otherwise identical in shape and material to any of those that did have the number. I don't believe the seller found a non Mopar part and inserted it into a 100% correct bag. The reason I say this is because he only wanted $100.00 for it. He also had two NOS ones that I did buy. One was for a 69 Dart and the other one was for a 69 Barracuda. They both have the part number molded into the rubber. Those two are not as nice because they are each in a sleeve similar to what a V belt would be in. They have shelf wear. Each of the sleeves has the correct part number preprinted on them. At only $100.00 each I couldn't pass them up. I'm hoping I can get enough good sections between the two of them to make what I need. I can guarantee you that at least some of the NOS replacement trunk weatherstripps with the correct non superseded part number did NOT have a part number or logo on them. The real question is whether or not any assembly line trunk weatherstripps on 69 B body's were void of any numbers or logos.

[62 Max]

One thing I did find is that the part number spacing is 24" and there is no consistency in relation as to the cut end therefore cut to length as needed for application.

[odcics2]

Just to clarify. The NOS trunk weatherstripping I saw was in an old period correct Mopar bag with the correct part number and part description preprinted on the bag like any genuine Mopar issued part from the late 60s. I looked up the part number and it was for a 69 Plymouth C body. That is the one that did not have any numbers on it but it was otherwise identical in shape and material to any of those that did have the number. I don't believe the seller found a non Mopar part and inserted it into a 100% correct bag. The reason I say this is because he only wanted $100.00 for it. He also had two NOS ones that I did buy. One was for a 69 Dart and the other one was for a 69 Barracuda. They both have the part number molded into the rubber. Those two are not as nice because they are each in a sleeve similar to what a V belt would be in. They have shelf wear. Each of the sleeves has the correct part number preprinted on them. At only $100.00 each I couldn't pass them up. I'm hoping I can get enough good sections between the two of them to make what I need. I can guarantee you that at least some of the NOS replacement trunk weatherstripps with the correct non superseded part number did NOT have a part number or logo on them. The real question is whether or not any assembly line trunk weatherstripps on 69 B body's were void of any numbers or logos.

Too bad you didn't buy the Fury strip...   I would have liked to see it.  
I don't believe ANY MoPars would have a trunk seal without the part number/Pentastar from the factory.  
I still say - we all need to see all original cars, and not just Chargers, to see what they all have. All it would take is ONE to not have a number/Pentastar and our thinking will have to change on this subject.  
Until that happens, numbers are the way it is.

On a similar subject, the seals are made in such a way that there is are 'overhang' areas that corresponds to each model and the different part numbers, along with the different lengths required to install them.  
Can you post a few pics of those areas on the seals you have?  

[Aero426]

In the 80s, tons of clear plastic MoPar bags in various sizes surfaced in the Detroit area from the Centerline Parts Depot.
Guys were selling them by the pile to anybody at the Nats.
Wouldn't take much to stuff a part in the right sized bag and write the part number with a drymarker on the taped or stapled closed bag.     

A seal found today from Motor City Originals (1980's) could easily be mistaken for NOS.   

[odcics2]

In the 80s, tons of clear plastic MoPar bags in various sizes surfaced in the Detroit area from the Centerline Parts Depot.
Guys were selling them by the pile to anybody at the Nats.
Wouldn't take much to stuff a part in the right sized bag and write the part number with a drymarker on the taped or stapled closed bag.     

A seal found today from Motor City Originals (1980's) could easily be mistaken for NOS.   

Ah yes!   Didn't they crank them out off the original tooling?  (minus numbers and logos, of course, so they didn't get sued...) 

Good remembering Doug. 

[69hemidaytona]

In the 80s, tons of clear plastic MoPar bags in various sizes surfaced in the Detroit area from the Centerline Parts Depot.
Guys were selling them by the pile to anybody at the Nats.
Wouldn't take much to stuff a part in the right sized bag and write the part number with a drymarker on the taped or stapled closed bag.     

A seal found today from Motor City Originals (1980's) could easily be mistaken for NOS.   

But they would have to find an original bag to put it in or they would have to have one of those made up as well. I don't think anybody would do that only to then offer to sell the part and bag for $100.00. It wouldn't be worth the effort.

[odcics2]

In the 80s, tons of clear plastic MoPar bags in various sizes surfaced in the Detroit area from the Centerline Parts Depot.
Guys were selling them by the pile to anybody at the Nats.
Wouldn't take much to stuff a part in the right sized bag and write the part number with a drymarker on the taped or stapled closed bag.     

A seal found today from Motor City Originals (1980's) could easily be mistaken for NOS.   

But they would have to find an original bag to put it in or they would have to have one of those made up as well. I don't think anybody would do that only to then offer to sell the part and bag for $100.00. It wouldn't be worth the effort.

You didn't have the heart to tell him he undercharged you?   

[69hemidaytona]

I'm not sure yet if he under charged me. I haven't had a chance to clean the weather stripping up to see if I can piece together a usable item. I did go ahead and buy the really nice nos trunk weather stripping that does not have any numbers on it. I will photograph it once it arrives.

[69hemidaytona]

Here are some photos of the NOS Plymouth trunk weatherstrip.  It has no part numbers or Pentastar on it. Incidentally I was in a Mopar junkyard last week and I looked at six different 1969 B body trunk weatherstrips. Five of them had the part number and Pentastar on them and one had a different number and a much larger Pentastar on it.

[odcics2]

Here are some photos of the NOS Plymouth trunk weatherstrip.  It has no part numbers or Pentastar on it. Incidentally I was in a Mopar junkyard last week and I looked at six different 1969 B body trunk weatherstrips. Five of them had the part number and Pentastar on them and one had a different number and a much larger Pentastar on it.

Post up some of the pics, especially the larger Pentastar version.

[69hemidaytona]

I cant get the photos small enough to post.

[odcics2]

I cant get the photos small enough to post.

PM sent.

[69hemidaytona]

Thanks oddics. I emailed you photos of the Plymouth weatherstrip and its original package. I didn't take any photos of the junkyard weatherstripps.

[odcics2]

Thanks oddics. I emailed you photos of the Plymouth weatherstrip and its original package. I didn't take any photos of the junkyard weatherstripps.

Your pics...