Tm7 vs torker2 440. (( results ))))

[mally69]

Anyone ran these back to back or have any input? TM7, or Torker 2 440 intake manifold.  

[PRH]

What's the combo?

On a typical 500-550hp 440, there will be very little difference in power, and even less difference on the time slip.

[mally69]

440 60 over
Hand ported stealth heads gasket matched at opening ,
10.8 comp
850 proform double pumper
Super comp hooker 1 3 4 headers, i need 1 7 8
Comp mag cam 250@050. 555 lift 106 centerline 294 dur
I have a tm7 and a torker 2. Both gasket matched to the heads.
3500 ptc stall 4.10 gears 3600lb 69 charger

[mally69]

I guess for what i have which would be the better one for performance between the two is all i was looking for.

[firefighter3931]

I would use the TM7....my old 446 made basicly the same power with the TM7 and Holley Street Dominator on the Dyno. The power numbers were virtually identical (535hp/540tq) between the two. 

Combo similar to yours : 446 with 10.4:1 comp/mild port RPM heads/solid cam .560 lift/850DP carb/Hooker 17/8 header. Peak TQ@ 4400/Peak HP@ 6000

Ron

[mally69]

Perfect, ill be switching it back to the tm7. I havent heard many good reviews on the torker 2. Doesnt appear the tm7 is still made anymore

[firefighter3931]

OK Mally....we need an update on this manifold swap !  


Ron

[Ryan.C]

Perfect, ill be switching it back to the tm7. I havent heard many good reviews on the torker 2. Doesnt appear the tm7 is still made anymore

I have a TM7 for an RB I do not need any longer. Let me know if you can use it.

[mally69]

Ryan how much for the intake tm7?

Update i ran both manifolds back to back. Theres no comparison. The tm7 totally out performed the torker2 by a long shot.
Torker 2...
Slower throttle response
Bottom end torque was bad
Upper rpm power was sluggish,
Large plenum
1/2 inch taller than tm7
Torker did actually change the roughness of the idle, it was choppier

TM7...
Very sharp , very quick throttle response, revs fast
Way more bottom end torque,
pulls hard till i decided to shift around 6k  i beleive its good for higher yet rpms
Lower than the torker (better hood clearence)
Small plenum has higher velocity flow.
Smoother crisper idle.

Both manifolds were gasket matched as well has heads.
Build is. 440 60 over
Static compression between 10.6 10.8
1 3/4  super comp headers
294 adv dur,  250@.050 555 lift with 1.6 rockers
Stealth heads ported gasket matched
3500 ptc convertor
4.10 gears
850 proform double pumper
Mopar ignition silver box,
Car weighs 3500 without me in it.
3 inch full exhaust with x pipe, but have cutouts installed just past header flange
Going to keystone raceway this sunday to test it out.
Have a little tuning yet to do saturday

[c00nhunterjoe]

While im not doubting you feel the tm7 felt better, to say the "seat-o-pants meter" is a legitimate is a bit far fetched. From what ive seen, on a mild 440 build such as yours, just about any intake manifold will be within 5-10 hp of each other worst to best on the market for an application. To say no comparison, in felt torque would be more like a 30+ hp difference. Then coupled with the fact that the torker 2 had a rougher and choppier idle, tells much something isnt right. Whether its a vacuum leak or tuning, something was amock.  Not dismissing the tm7 as i have a modified one on my 440 and just dipped into the 10s with it, but there shouldnt have been an noted driving difference between the 2 intakes given all variables were the same.

[mally69]

It was notceable, as far as a vaccume leak, doubt it,  . I went around and tuned everyrhing had my vac guage on it a million times, while tuning ,everything i touched took adjustment and ahowed on the vac guage which held perfectly still didnt bounce or jump around. The engine souded diff between those two manifolds. It was a totally fresh rebuild, i hated to even tear it apart to change them. All plugs were of the same color as well. Brown.. so if there was a vac leak it never  showed up anywhere.  So far i havent read one good review anywhere on any mopar site for a torker 2 the all pretty much stated the same affect as i had. Loss of bottom end torque, I mean ill gladly swap it back on and try it again... just for thrills.

[PRH]

So far i havent read one good review anywhere on any mopar site for a torker 2.....

Let me be the first then......

I had one on my 906 headed 9.7:1 roller cammed 448 in my 3670lb race weight 68 Satellite, running well into the 10's, complete with factory 5/16" fuel line, hp mechanical fuel pump, crank driven water pump, battery up front, and flat steel hood.

Prior to that combo, with 239cfm heads and an old racer brown ssh-44 hyd cam the 448 made 535tq/535hp and was running 11.20's @120+.
I also ran that motor on the dyno with the original Torker, which made 550tq/519hp.
The original Torker peaked at 5500 and then nosed over pretty quick.
The Torker II peaked at 6200 and was just stronger up top.

I always liked the original Torker as a low profile street/strip manifold(in milder applications) where the emphasis is more on bottom end and throttle response as opposed to peak hp.

Nowadays, if I had the room, I'd just run an RPM instead.

[mally69]

Basically i look more at the bottom end power and throttle response the most. I just didnt feel the torker 2 had what i was looking for. Not doubting anyone elses experiences with either manifold. I trust  your judgment, i just had to try it back to back and see for myself it only took me 40 min from one to the other.  Kinda a pain becausr everything was hot but i was anxious. The difference to me was def noticeable between the two. I did however leave the timing and carbueration exactly the same from one to tje other. I am going to go back all over it again now the tm7 is on. Its prob fairly close tune wise. I am running 100 oct leaded av gas. Not reg 93.

[PRH]

I don't doubt the TM7 has better low end response. The plenum area is smaller.

I can certainly see where it would be preferable on a street car.

By the time I was running the Torker II, I wasn't really driving the car on the street anymore.
With 4.56 gears and a 5300rpm converter........ I didn't notice any issues with drivability.

[mally69]

That would be a bit extreme for me street wise with this car, my others being over 500 cu.in may be better i dont know. I see the rating between those two manifolds, i do tho find it odd that the torker 2 is rated 2500 to 6500, and the tm7 says 3500 to 7500 rpm.  Truely by looking at the runners on the inside youd think the torker 2 would be rated higher due to bigger runners, and bigger plenum.

[c00nhunterjoe]

The rpm ratings are biased. What the manifolds will run on a 383 is different from a 440, and different again to a mild 440 and up again on a wilder one. Same thing with cam rpm ratings. Cylinder heads also play a factor in both. The joy of bb chryslers though is we can swap them out in about 20 minutes with no coolant loss.

[firefighter3931]

I'd say the manifold swap was a success in that it achieved significant improvement where it matters most for that engine in that car with the stall and gearing. 

Looking forward to the track report....I'm predicting traction problems with all that newfound low end grunt 


Ron

[mally69]

Well i got  ss springs and dot slicks 275 60 15 im hoping itll hook

[c00nhunterjoe]

Any day at the track is a good day. Videos and time slips or it didnt happen...  

[mally69]

Hahaha yes absoluetly ill post up the track vids and pics. Ill keep ya posted

[HPP]

I seem to recall reading in a few different articles that the Torker names was actually misleading and they traditionally made less low end torque and more high end horsepower than some other, less appropriately named intakes.

[tan top]

Hahaha yes absoluetly ill post up the track vids and pics. Ill keep ya posted

[mally69]

Im hoping to be in the 11s

[PRH]

Im hoping to be in the 11s

Yeh......... I'd hope so!!

[firefighter3931]

When I had the 446 it typically ran 11.80's at 114 or so @ 4100 lbs raceweight. Your's is a bunch lighter so 11's should be no problem, inmo. 

The best mine ever ran with that combo was 11.68 at 116 on a great air day in the late fall....the DA was below sea level. The car really liked that mineshaft air ! 

Good luck and have fun ! 


Ron

[pipeliner]

Wow that's fast. I hope mine can run in the 11,s that would be awesome. Here's my final build. I've talked about it before but changed a few things.
440 bored 40
Lined, squared and zero decked,
Factory LY Rods with ARP rod bolts,   crank turned
Forged Race Tec pistons @ 670 grams
Comp Hydraulic Roller 110@50 236/242 with 544 lift
Trick Flow Roller Lifters
TF 240 Heads
Smith Bros Push Rods
1.6 Mancini Roller Rockers
Holley Street Dominator
Either a QF or 850 Proform Carb
TTI 1 7/8 headers
3.91 gear and a T-56 Magnum 6-speed
Firecore distriburator And F-50 wires with a Revenator

[PRH]

You will certainly have plenty of power to run well into the 11's.

The big issue with std trans street cars at the track is, can you leave at a high enough rpm and still have it hook(and not break something) decent so the 60' times are low enough to get you to your target ET?

That.....and..... Can you row through the gears well enough?

When I watch street cars with sticks run at the track, those are usually the two things that will make or break the numbers you put up.

Another auto combo, circa 1990;
68 Charger R/T, 446 with trw l2355's, mild ported big valve 906's(no more than 250cfm),
Crower 248/254-110 solid cam, like .545/.555 lift, iron rockers, TM7, 850 Holley DP, 2" headers(motor dynoed at just over 500hp), TCI 10" converter, 4.10's, 28x10.5 slicks, SS springs, 3900lb race weight.
It went at least as good as 11.60's with that combo. I seem recall it going .40's with a 9" converter.

Later on, more head porting, port the intake, send the carb out, roller cam, lightweight pistons, 29.5x10.5 slicks and 4.56 gears, Cal Tracs w- split mono springs...... 10.80's.

A couple years later, B1BS heads and a bigger cam = 10.50's

Add a MP tunnel ram and 2x 750's = 10.30's(best of 10.29).

New 528 short block, bigger cam, 4.10's back in, new ATI converter = 9.90's(best of 9.84).

Add ladder bars = 9.70's

[HPP]

Another auto combo, circa 1990;
68 Charger R/T, 446 with trw l2355's, mild ported big valve 906's(no more than 250cfm),
Crower 248/254-110 solid cam, like .545/.555 lift, iron rockers, TM7, 850 Holley DP, 2" headers(motor dynoed at just over 500hp), TCI 10" converter, 4.10's, 28x10.5 slicks, SS springs, 3900lb race weight.
It went at least as good as 11.60's with that combo. I seem recall it going .40's with a 9" converter.

Later on, more head porting, port the intake, send the carb out, roller cam, lightweight pistons, 29.5x10.5 slicks and 4.56 gears, Cal Tracs w- split mono springs...... 10.80's.

A couple years later, B1BS heads and a bigger cam = 10.50's

Add a MP tunnel ram and 2x 750's = 10.30's(best of 10.29).

New 528 short block, bigger cam, 4.10's back in, new ATI converter = 9.90's(best of 9.84).

Add ladder bars = 9.70's

It would be interesting to overlay the costs of the baseline and each upgrade to show what speed costs.

[mally69]

Well we got rained out today. Ugh i was super excited to hit the track. Gonn ahoot for another day

[c00nhunterjoe]

Another auto combo, circa 1990;
68 Charger R/T, 446 with trw l2355's, mild ported big valve 906's(no more than 250cfm),
Crower 248/254-110 solid cam, like .545/.555 lift, iron rockers, TM7, 850 Holley DP, 2" headers(motor dynoed at just over 500hp), TCI 10" converter, 4.10's, 28x10.5 slicks, SS springs, 3900lb race weight.
It went at least as good as 11.60's with that combo. I seem recall it going .40's with a 9" converter.

Later on, more head porting, port the intake, send the carb out, roller cam, lightweight pistons, 29.5x10.5 slicks and 4.56 gears, Cal Tracs w- split mono springs...... 10.80's.

A couple years later, B1BS heads and a bigger cam = 10.50's

Add a MP tunnel ram and 2x 750's = 10.30's(best of 10.29).

New 528 short block, bigger cam, 4.10's back in, new ATI converter = 9.90's(best of 9.84).

Add ladder bars = 9.70's

It would be interesting to overlay the costs of the baseline and each upgrade to show what speed costs.

Your head will spin..... lol.

[HPP]

Oh, I realize that. I've been building these things for over 30 years. But we also have a newbs come on here that throw out a shopping list of parts they put in their  build and now they are pissed that it only runs 14s.

[PRH]

I first met the owner of that 68 R/T in 87 or 88, at the track....... And I'm pretty sure it was his first time there with that car.
It had the stock long block, the tm7, 850 Holley, headers, and some lumpy Crane cam.
4.10's, headers opened up, and regular bias ply 60 series tires on it.
It was a 4 speed back then(original 4 speed car).

I was talking to him in the lanes and asked him about the combo........  And when I told him I figured if he could put  together a decent pass it might run a mid-13 he looked at me like I was clueless.

Well, after a few tire frying, gear missing, engine popping mid/hi-14's, he was thinking a mid-13 might not be all that bad.

We talked a bit more and it was revealed that he'd had a local speed shop recurve the distributor.

I put a timing light on it and as it turned out, all they had done was wrap the loop of the big spring tighter around the pin, so the curve was super slow. But it still had tons of travel, and the total timing at high rpm's was almost 50deg.

They had set it at like 38deg @3000rpm........ But it was still advancing way way beyond that at high rpm.

He said he was only running it about 5k, so I reset the timing to 38@5000, coached him a little on walking it out off the line, and he put together a pretty decent pass...... Right about 13.50(no more skipping).

He ended up shipping the dist to me, and I actually recurved it, told him to buy some small slicks and a smaller carb.

With just those changes and a little seat time it was running like 12.60's.

[BSB67]

.......and a little seat time.......

...and there is something that we never discuss but can really have a meaningful impact on the numbers, both et and mph.

[c00nhunterjoe]

.......and a little seat time.......

...and there is something that we never discuss but can really have a meaningful impact on the numbers, both et and mph.

You mean like watching all the stick cars go down the track with 1/2  to 3/4 second shifts? They crack me up

[mally69]

My distributer is the mopar dist. Made by mallory. Well i tore it apart and pinned it solid. No advance to worry about on my setup. Its full advance where it needs to be at all times. Runs better that way, and starts just fine. I also run 100 oct avgas. Runs 38 to 40 degreese. Thats where it wants to be and runs the best. Kinda a cool trick.