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Author Topic: A real Barn Find instead of a story-The Bird in the Barn for 43 years!)  (Read 2545 times)
taxspeaker
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The Alaska Highway Superbird


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« on: September 17, 2017, 09:18:28 AM »

1970 Plymouth Superbird RM23U0A174621 (Ransom (Randy) ****** original owner)

In mid-July 2017 Bob Jennings was contacted by Charlie **** regarding a 1970 Superbird his wife’s uncle owned in Elkhart, IN. Charlie worked with Dave ****, whose son Matt worked with Bob Jennings.

Bob & Charlie spoke on the phone and Charlie told Bob that the Bird had been bought brand new by his wife’s uncle whose name was ****

The car had been parked since the mid-1970’s (?) in a garage at this address and was a limelight green, 440cubic inch 4 barrel, 4 speed with bench seats. Not much else was known about the car. Charlie sent Bob 5 poor quality pictures showing a lot of dirt, quarter panel rust and a flat tire. Charlie thought the car was worth around $30,000 but Bob told him between $50-60,000 was more accurate. Bob told Charlie he would buy the car at that price unless it was a rust heap, and Charlie told Bob that the uncle was quite eccentric and that he was waffling about really wanting to sell it.

For the next 6 weeks Bob gently pestered Charlie, and on September 5, Charlie contacted Bob and agreed on the price of $60,000. Bob, Dave & Matt Johnson, and Mike Arms all drove to Elkhart on the morning of September 16, 2017 to buy the car, put it on a trailer and haul it home, leaving around 4:45am, arriving at the location around 9:45 am.

Bob & Matt Johnson verified the VIN to agreement with the title, dash pad, radiator support, trunk lip, door tag, engine block and transmission.

Randy verified he bought the car brand new on 3/12/70 from Vernon M. Ball Plymouth, Inc in Elkhart, Indiana. He bought it because it was “different” and drove it to cruises and as a daily driver for 4 years.

Car was stored at Elkhart, IN in this building
 
In late 1974 Randy parked the car because of a bad voltage regulator. In late 1975 he got it running and inspected on 10/1/75 with 65,346 miles. It was last licensed on February 2, 1975 for 1975, expiring in May of 1976.

The odometer on the day that Bob pulled it out of the garage (9/16/2017) reads 65,548.9 miles.

When we first walked up to the car we all immediately noticed the trailer hitch and the 2 original jacking instruction stickers in the trunk deck. The car was quite evidently originally parked without a washing because the salt residue had destroyed the chrome on the rear bumper. All 4 tires were flat, but we had brought 4 wheels & tires from home and proceeded to remove the old wheels. The old wheels were difficult to remove, but after some penetrating oil, our electric impact wrench and judicious use of a sledge hammer to persuade the wheels off of the hubs, we replaced all 4 wheels and easily rolled the car into the sunlight for the first time in 43 years!

Randy told us he had moved the car once when he sold his house and a tow truck hauled it to this building during the night so no one would see it or know it was there. The tow truck ripped off and bent the front spoiler, which was laying in the back seat. Also laying in the seat/trunk was the radio and alternator.

When we got the car into the sunlight, the 43 years of dirt showed, as did the parking of the car without removing the accumulated road salt. The interior had some damage from mice and the trunk was full of trash, but all-in-all the car was in excellent shape except for the external body panels.

We determined before we winched the car on the trailer that both quarter panels will need to be replaced, the top portion of both fenders behind the scoops will need repair, and the nose has a dent in it, needing repair as does the passenger headlight bucket. The vinyl top is perfect, the interior does not leak, but will need the bench seat repaired and new carpet. The floor boards all appear fine (surface rust only), as does the trunk floor and frame rails!

We (Bob Jennings, Mike Arms, Matt & Dave Johnson) winched the car on the trailer, taking many pictures and a video, said our last goodbyes, and started the 5 hour drive home. During the drive we had people waving and yelling at us, honking and when we stopped to eat the car was engulfed by onlookers, picture takers and curious crowds.

Upon arrival at our shop in Southern Indiana, we snapped a few more pictures and proceeded to wash the driver’s ½ side of the car, while also vacuuming and cleaning out the interior. We found several dollars worth of change, and deep cleaned a portion of the vinyl top and dash pad. There was absolutely zero rust around the windshield or dash pad, inside or out or around the back window or moulding, and the car had no leaks when we washed it. We attribute this to 43 years of darkness leaving all the rubber in excellent condition.

We then very, very carefully hooked up a 12 volt battery just to see what was going on electrically, and to our surprise everything with a fuse still worked. A number of fuses were missing so we could not check everything, but the lights, wipers and brake lights worked. The fuses were missing for the tic-toc-tach, horn, turn signals and interior lights, and the radio was out of the car, but there was absolutely zero indication of mouse damage to the wiring.

We then pushed the car into the garage and put it on the lift for examination. We found surface rust underneath the car, but no where was it serious. The bell housing was missing the inspection plate and the starter was gone. The brakes did not show any leakage, but the emergency brake cable was badly corroded and we kind of felt like there was no fluid in the master cylinder. The transmission showed no leaks, but the front seal of the dana read end yoke was leaking. The engine was pretty grimy, and for some reason the driver’s side valve cover had been unscrewed but we could see no issues. Overall, this was very, very minor stuff.

The plans are now:
First, Pull the spark plugs, fill the cylinders with marvel oil, and let it sit for a few days. Then we will do a complete engine degreasing and pressure wash and let it dry outside in the sun. Then we will put in all new spark plugs, plug wires, distributor cap, rotor, points and condenser.

Second, we will pull the carb and send it out to Harm’s Automotive for rebuild, while replacing all the rubber fuel line pieces and the fuel filter. We will pull the gas tank and see if it can just be cleaned (it looks good), blow out the gas lines and tank with compressed air, bolt on a temporary carb and get a new air filter. We will then change the oil and filter, and gently see if we can turn the crank by hand several rotations.

Third, we will replace the alternator, voltage regulator, starter, all hoses and belts and put in a temporary radiator and probably replace the water pump while the radiator is out. At the same time we will put in new temperature and oil pressure sending units and a new dipstick since the old one is missing. I have many of these parts as extras in my shop.

Next, we will feed it the gas and see if it starts, keeping our fingers crossed! If it does we will then pull the bench seat for repairing it ourselves with a little black duct tape, pull the back seat and hope for a build sheet, give the interior and exterior a real good cleaning, put in new carpet and put it all back together. I could probably clean and keep the old carpet, but the mouse poop issue is a concern-awaiting comments.

Finally, we will do a complete brake job, turning the drums & rotors, rebuilding the wheel cylinders and calipers, and replacing the emergency brake lines. At this point the car should be very (safely) drivable.

You will notice that I am not repairing the body as of right now. I feel that I can do all the repairs and minor replacements for a bit less than $2,000 by myself (and friends), yet still quite correctly call the car a survivor if that is important to you, since the only things replaced are normal wear and tear items. Since this is a well-documented 1-owner, un-molested and un-modified car I think I want to keep it that way. The trunk stickers are as mounted from the factory, all of the driveline marks are the ones the factory put on, all the stickers are in the right places, I still have the warranty card and original title and all of the paperwork to keep this car as a reference for future owners. Heck the trunk still has the original dealer sticker from Vernon R. Ball, Inc, Elkhart, Indiana and what’s a little rust between friends?

With the assistance of Tan Top (Steve) I will post as many pictures as I can from yesterday’s purchase date, and as we go through the process. One of the neatest pictures is of the hood after we washed just the driver’s side.
Bob J


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Bob J
1969 Daytona 4 speed, numbers matching Y2
1970 Superbird-"The Alaska Highway SuperBird" "Alpine White
1970 Superbird- "The 43 year barn find LimeLight" Bird
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2017, 12:05:14 PM »

So cool! What a find. Congratulations!
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alfaitalia
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2017, 12:27:37 PM »

What else can I say but wow! Amazing that these cars are still out there waiting to be found. I know I will be in a minority.....but I would want to drive it ....but sympathetically restored. Not to show standard...but without the rust and faded Chrome. A survivor holds no great value to me ....but as I said I can see the other point of view. MORE PHOTOS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE PLEASE!
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2017, 12:33:46 PM »

Quote
pull the back seat and hope for a build sheet

Do not ignore the front seat. The last Superbird sheet I found was under the front seat in the springs, the owner had previously found one in the rear seat.

If it has bucket seats look inside the removable backs also, as well as under the carpet & taped to the back of the glove box liner.

Some owners find 3-5 sheets if the car has never been searched before.

You may even find one or two for other cars.

Happy hunting!
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2017, 09:10:03 PM »

Thanks soo much for sharing so much information and details. I was picturing being there.

I am looking forward to the pics!

Dave
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« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2017, 05:31:44 AM »

Nice find.  2thumbs I can only hope I can find a Daytona one day like that.
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i am a fair person and up frount person and try to help if i can. i love my mopars thats. all i ever owned first car was my 69 charger at the age of 15.

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« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2017, 06:26:06 AM »

the uncle was quite eccentric

Isn't that all of us?  Roll Eyes


Great find, keep the pics and documentation coming.

Thank you for sharing.  cheers


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The Alaska Highway Superbird


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« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2017, 07:49:43 AM »

I just sent Tan Top a bunch of pictures if he gets a chance-I am not good at the picture posting thing. Worked on the car for hours yesterday. I am keeping a log each day, but getting ready for several weeks of work travel so not much will happen for a bit.

09/17/17   65,548   Removed spark plugs, filled cylinders with oil to sit for 2 weeks to try and free up     
Pistons for the future, replaced spark plugs to 3-4 turns. Plugs were really difficult to get out but not as bad as expected. They are originals as are all of the plug wires, radiator hoses and clamps. Sprayed penetrating oil/lubricant on shock bolts-lower & upper rear, lower front. Also sprayed on transmission linkage. Vacuumed engine compartment and undercarriage removing lots of mouse stuffing and seeds. Noted radiator full of seeds and mouse stuffing so cap must have been off. Removed non-original overflow bottle and noted that fuel line was unhooked from carb line, plus vapor canister not present. I hope this means the fuel lines were blown out when parked.

Cleaned vinyl top for first time. Will need several cleaning and scrubbings but appears that it will clean up close to new. Engine compartment should clean up quite well with soap/water/pressure washer to inner fenders and front end, plus degreaser on engine. Cleaned dash pad and door panels. Dash panel, door panels and back seat will all clean up well-it is a black interior with the silver trim and nothing will be replaced. Some wear on driver door arm area where steel is worn and paint scratched but I am leaving it alone. Found a 1969 paycheck stub for plant worker in trunk back where jack hold down plate was. Not sure what to do on surface rust on the frame and rear end-I would like to clean it up but don't want to damage any of the original stuff or markings and would love some ideas.

WD-40’d trunk lock cylinder to see if we can free up stuck key. Also going to test radio that had been removed from car.

Determined some order of work:
1.   Degrease engine and pressure wash-tighten valve cover first and make sure all engine areas are sealed.
2.   Remove bench seat and order replacement covers and padding
3.   Deep clean interior, duct tape headliner, remove rear seat and look for build sheet behind glove box and under seats.
4.   Remove and deep clean carpet if cleanable, order new otherwise
5.   Replace fuses and clean under dash while carpet is out.
6.   Replace radio speaker, lube heater cables, check dash wiring, check clock functionality
7.   Pull radiator, replace hoses, radiator send off to restore, water pump, install temporary aluminum radiator
8.   Replace shocks, clean and lube front end
9.   Pull gas tank. Blow out gas lines and replace all rubber pieces and fuel filter & vapor canister, replace fuel pump, air filter and install temporary Holley carb.
10.   Pull carb and send for rebuilding
11.   Send alternator for rebuilding
12.   Replace voltage regulator, ballast resistor, starter relay, coil with NOS stuff I have here
13.   Replace plugs, wires, dist cap, rotor, condenser & points with NOS stuff I have here
14.   Rebuild rear wheel cylinders, turn drums and replace brakes & rubber hoses
15.   Rebuild calipers, turn rotors, replace pads and rubber hoses, repack wheel bearings, check master cylinder and rebuild if necessary
16.   Bleed brakes, replace valve cover gaskets
17.   Replace emergency brake cables, transmission fluid
18.   Replace yoke seal and rear differential fluid
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Bob J
1969 Daytona 4 speed, numbers matching Y2
1970 Superbird-"The Alaska Highway SuperBird" "Alpine White
1970 Superbird- "The 43 year barn find LimeLight" Bird
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 09:13:40 AM »

Thanks soo much for sharing so much information and details. I was picturing being there.

I am looking forward to the pics!

Dave

 iagree yes  I agree , what BBD said  coolgleamA 2thumbs


    watch this space ! for pictures  yesnod popcrn
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charger_fan_4ever
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 09:34:42 AM »

at 60K probably the best "buy" on a wing car in a long time.  cheers
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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2017, 11:24:15 AM »

at 60K probably the best "buy" on a wing car in a long time.  cheers

Yeah, I think it is better than my recent Superbird deal.......
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Troy
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« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2017, 05:12:28 PM »


Thanks soo much for sharing so much information and details. I was picturing being there.

I am looking forward to the pics!

Dave

 iagree yes  I agree , what BBD said  coolgleamA 2thumbs


    watch this space ! for pictures  yesnod popcrn






 yesnod   2thumbs


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tan top
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« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2017, 05:13:56 PM »

 popcrn coolgleamA yesnod


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tan top
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« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2017, 05:14:39 PM »

 coolgleamA drool5 yesnod


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tan top
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« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2017, 05:53:06 PM »

 2thumbs popcrn

picture 1 ,  just out in the light  , first time in 43 years

picture 2 ,  on way home

picture 3 ,  original dealer trunk sticker


picture 7 ,  windshield washer hose placement

picture 8 ,  date coded voltage regulator  479


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« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2017, 05:54:13 PM »

  popcrn

picture 1  , original vacuum line routing

picture 2 , vinyl top after first clean



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kw mopar
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« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2017, 06:04:32 PM »

Great story and awesome pictures. Thanks for sharing.
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hemi68charger
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Winged Duo..


« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2017, 05:37:28 AM »

Awesome configuration !!! The newest AB !!  2thumbs
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Troy
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« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2017, 09:51:35 AM »

Awesome find!  Congratulations! 
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aerolith
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« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2017, 12:19:01 PM »

Absolutely STUNNING car! 2thumbs 2thumbs 2thumbs

Top of the Plymouth tree for me...
Limey Green with a four speed!!! drool5 drool5 drool5

Well done for finding her and well done to the guys who looked after her too... cheers

I'm with alfa, wash her and drive her lol... drive drive drive

Four on da FLOOR! does it get any betta? Cheesy


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« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2017, 01:04:23 PM »

IMO, keep as original as possible. 
Only original once. After that, "just another restored wing car"...
  cheers

Cool find.  2thumbs
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« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2017, 01:08:29 PM »

Awesome story & very cool find. It always just amazes me that some people have a spare 60K to find & buy something like this. LOL.
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« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2017, 01:51:34 PM »

IMO, keep as original as possible. 
Only original once. After that, "just another restored wing car"...
 

I am shocked at me saying it, but I have got to agree with odcics on this.  Keep it as original as possible.  2thumbs


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« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2017, 02:48:07 PM »

Great find, I also would leave the car untouched, 1/4 rust & all. Especially if its original paint still.
Cleaned and detailed, tuned up but otherwise all original would make for a really interesting car at shows.
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« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2017, 05:49:19 PM »

You need to take it to MCACN in Chicago in November.  They have a barn find display there.  This car will get alot of attention.
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« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2017, 05:52:06 PM »

Yeah we are still planning on no body work. The vinyl top today after the 4th careful scrub looks brand new. The glove box open door for 40 years responded well to 12 hours of penetrating oil and now closes! My boys removed the front seat today after work and says it shows no mouse homes, but the rips will need repair. The back seat however has some bad stuff-they tell me the front lip along the bottom of the back seat has rusted away-probably from mouse pee and they are having trouble getting it out-will wait for me to get home in 10 days. Found 1 little remnant of a build sheet on the floor in front of the seat so it is not looking good for whenever we can get that seat out, and will probably need to buy a new back seat frame unless we can somehow get it out without breaking it in two.

Does anyone rebuild voltage regulators or alternators? I really want to keep these originals and not replace them. Have decided to pull the original radiator hoses and clean them and see if they are acceptable for use. Voltage regulator is date coded 479-47th week of 1969 so I think it is clearly original for a late build date like this

The boys detailed a small section of the hood and it buffed out very well-see attached.

The carpet reeks of mouse pee, but we are still going to try and clean it and reuse it because it is in good shape. Other than the rear seat frame and the ripped fornt seat everything in the interior will be cleaned and used as is-the door panels are excellent, the armrests are excellent the chrome base plates are dull but acceptable and the chrome door handles and window cranks just need some gentle steel wool. The dash is excellent as are the gauges, shifter, heater, etc and even the glovebox cardboard is excellent, so the interior will be cleaned and left alone.

My original plans were to get it all running with everything merely cleaned and reusing or rebuilding the original parts and then selling it. At some point the rust will need to be dealt with, but it inside a heated shop, so I am unsure where we will go on it. My wife says keep it and fix the body in a year or two, but I don't think I want to do that again now-in the meantime we will have a load of fun just cleaning and rebuilding without replacing.

On the plug wires I am not sure they are original. They say "silicone core suppressor cable pat no. ...."-I thought these were date coded-anyone know?


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Bob J
1969 Daytona 4 speed, numbers matching Y2
1970 Superbird-"The Alaska Highway SuperBird" "Alpine White
1970 Superbird- "The 43 year barn find LimeLight" Bird
1994 Viper
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« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2017, 06:04:39 PM »

Forgot to mention-the windows all crank up and down flawlessly-unheard of in an old car like this! The radio tested out ok today, just a cut wire that we fixed so it will go back in as is. We will soak the PCV valve and reuse it and clean the carb and try to reuse it without rebuilding. The "key-in" buzzer worked when we hooked up the wiring the other day.

The engine compartment is nasty-lots of scrubbing and degreasing to occur there. The pie pan cleaned up somewhat acceptably maybe a 6 on a scale of 10.

The trunk mat has been removed and we are slowly degreasing it to reuse-it is also a mess after 43 years. It does have the rear bumper jack and arm, as well as the front jack tie down plate and jack arm, but is missing the front jack. I am still hoping they will find the starter, bellhousing cover and this jack up in Elkhart on the next trip up there. No other parts appear missing or visibly broken.
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Bob J
1969 Daytona 4 speed, numbers matching Y2
1970 Superbird-"The Alaska Highway SuperBird" "Alpine White
1970 Superbird- "The 43 year barn find LimeLight" Bird
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« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2017, 06:15:07 PM »

Really nice story and writing.
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PettyMower
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« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2017, 07:35:42 PM »

Awesome story!  Make sure to look under the carpet BEFORE cleaning....you may find even more documentation.

I didn't look under mine until owning it for close to 30-years. And sure enough, a second build sheet.

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charger_fan_4ever
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« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2017, 08:54:08 AM »

Are those rust spots on topsides of fender where the brace is ?

So was only driven for 4 years. Was it always stored inside after that ? Did all that quarter rust happen in first 4 years ?

Id think buying AMD 1/4's and cutting out what is needed for patching the quarters and blend it up to first line with some urethane base paint would do wonders clean the rest and drive it as is. drool5

is your white bird 4 speed and #s match ?
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rob-dirt
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« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2017, 11:55:42 AM »

 drool5   i want the trailor hitch off it    drool5  if you decide to take it off  LOL great find ENJOY it  2thumbs
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« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2017, 12:18:11 PM »

Exactly right Charger fan!
Only fix the rust holes with bare minimum patching and leave her in all her beautiful Limeyness!!! 2thumbs
Original vinyl's are made of strong stuff and always look good with age.
She is worth as much as a restored birdie, without the resto costs in my booky wook... icon_smile_big
Its only original once and patina can't be faked. scratchchin

Aerolite.

My Dad always said, '' don't fix what ain't broke''.
Never a truer word said when it comes to old Mopes.
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« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2017, 01:53:58 PM »

Nothing like a good scrubbing with dish soap and a toothbrush.
Simple, but works wonders. Very gentle on old materials like vinyl.

Found the original #88 Engineering Daytona's headrest at Don White's shop, sitting in a box since 1973,
along with a bunch of other stuff.  At first, looked trashed!
But, after some elbow grease and then sitting in the sun to get rid of creases, its ok to use, as is.


* #88 daytona headrest as found.JPG (176.52 KB, 598x797 - viewed 703 times.)

* #88 daytona headrest after 2nd cleaning.JPG (115.73 KB, 446x609 - viewed 702 times.)
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« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2017, 03:34:50 PM »

Actually thinking about leaving the trailer hitch and pulling the white bird behind it on an open trailer to some car show somewhere for kicks!
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Bob J
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1970 Superbird-"The Alaska Highway SuperBird" "Alpine White
1970 Superbird- "The 43 year barn find LimeLight" Bird
1994 Viper
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« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2017, 06:52:38 PM »

Cool idea. popcrn

 
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73rallye440magnum
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« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2017, 06:03:35 AM »

This is great! Exciting to see the preservation efforts.
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« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2017, 07:34:14 AM »

 coolgleamA 2thumbs drool5 popcrn
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« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2017, 08:10:49 PM »

Very cool, congrats!!
Pat
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« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2017, 01:24:54 PM »

Thank you for sharing the informative & detailed story of this car, along with the cool pics! What an awesome find, I'm looking forward to your continued updates & photos.

In your to-do list, I didn't see you talk about changing the trans fluid. Make sure you do that too, since it's probably pretty ripe after all those years.

Oh, and great looking garage! 2thumbs Smiley
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« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2017, 06:49:15 AM »

Here is the latest good and bad news on the limegreen 43 year old:

In the last two weeks we have dis-assembled the entire interior. The floor pans (pictures attached) all have very minor surface rust and will be left untouched. The frontbench seat will need to be recovered as the hole is too bad to fix. The rear seat frame bottom rusted away from mouse droppings and we found a huge nest there. I wore a respirator and gloves to clean all of that out. Sadly there were tiny bits and pieces of the build sheet in the nest, but they were not recoverable. Once cleaned out we have it airing out and have put in a bunch of odor neutralizer and baking soda to remove the mouse smell. Strangely the floor there is also undamaged.

We removed the carpet undamaged in the front and back pieces. It reeks but we will try to clean it and air it out over the next few weeks-it is in excellent condition and if we can vacuum it many times and take it outside to clean and get rid of the smell it is clearly usable. I am trying to figure out a way to shampoo it to also clean out the smell.

The interior wiring is all undamaged or chewed and will not be modified in any way, except to replace all of the old missing fuses, put the radio back in and vacuum it. The passenger air vent is full of mouse nest and there is some rust damage at the bottom of the heater box leading me to believe that either mice lived in there too or the core leaked. It will need to be pulled, cleaned and repaired. The interior kick panels, window cranks, armrest and door pads are all in incredible condition and we cleaned them and have them ready for reinstallation at some point when we decide what to do on the carpet.

In the trunk we have found the complete original bumper jack, base, tie down wing nut and jack arm that we cleaned. We cleaned the original trunk mat for 5 days, but have now reused it-when but original and acceptable. For the nose jack we have found the tie down plate and wing nut and the jack arm, but not the jack. The wiring in the trunk was modified for the trailer hitch and we are leaving it alone-I still want to put the white bird on an open trailer and pull it with the green bird someday just to see people's reactions!

We determined from casting codes and date numbers that the alternator in the trunk was original so we sent it off to Dixie Resto for repair. We have not found a starter. I have an old, date correct starter that was rebuilt at some time 40 years ago but it has a different date code on part of it, so we are still looking. The voltage regulator is badly rusted and I have been unable to find one with the same date code (479) so I am going to put a 469 code on it for now in order to complete the ignition circuit. The plugs, points, wires, condenser and cap are all bad and new old stock is in hand and ready to install. We will also replace the radiator hoses with new old stock I have in my shop.

It looks like the engine bay will clean up very well with some hard work, scrubbing and cleaner. The underside of the hood is a surface rust mess, but we will at least clean it up.

The gas tank is empty!. I think we will pressure test it, blow it out, replace the short rubber hoses, filter and vapor separator and maybe the fuel pump, rebuild the carb and go with it!

So the summary of the good news-other  than cleaning and finding the missing nose jack, the interior is fantastic and will be reinstalled once the carpet and seat issues are addressed. The wiring seems to be fine too, and we already have most of the parts to fix the ignition circuit and missing electrical stuff.

The bad news: we are unable to get the engine to turn-it is frozen. We stopped trying yesterday after an hour and will now fill the cylinders with a mixture of 1/3 each kerosene, ATF and marvel mystery or PB blaster and let it sit for a week. Rather than risk breaking the crankshaft bolt, we are then going to put the car in gear (it is a stick) and try to rock it back and forth to see if we can free up the pistons that way. We have not degreased the engine are or done anything else there until we see where we are on this. I don't want to pull the engine and we are not in a hurry, so we will keep trying.

Will post again in a few weeks.



* 20170930_174903.jpg (79.6 KB, 448x336 - viewed 386 times.)

* 20170930_174854.jpg (70.77 KB, 448x336 - viewed 382 times.)

* 20170930_174844.jpg (77.86 KB, 448x336 - viewed 381 times.)

* 20170930_174850.jpg (65.71 KB, 448x336 - viewed 380 times.)
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Bob J
1969 Daytona 4 speed, numbers matching Y2
1970 Superbird-"The Alaska Highway SuperBird" "Alpine White
1970 Superbird- "The 43 year barn find LimeLight" Bird
1994 Viper
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« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2017, 08:41:11 AM »

Nice Find 2thumbs If it were up to me, I'd get a cheap Harbor Freight inspection camera and stick it down the spark plug holes to see what the cylinder walls look like, But seeing that it's the matching #'s engine, I would probably pull it anyway and rebuild it which is what most of us would do, why risk catastrophic damage to the original block and devalue your investment.  If that's not in your budget then pull it, put it off to the side and put a running 440 in it for now. Twocents
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« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2017, 08:47:08 AM »

If its seized then the very least you will have is marked cylinder walls where the rings are stuck, rusted to it....so even if you free it off, damage to the rings/piston/bores is almost inevitable when you fire her up..imo. At the very least I would be taking the heads off to have a good look after (or if) you get the pistons moving. You might get away with taking the pistons out, freeing the rings in their grooves and honing the bore.....or not!
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« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2017, 09:33:01 AM »

IMO opinion it needs a total restoration, to look good again.  Twocents
Original rust is not my idea of cool.   Twocents
Great find either way.  cheers
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« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2017, 11:17:31 AM »

I have to agree....a "survivor" is only cool if its actually survived! ...and that means being drivable, fully functioning and rust free. I think you could get away without a FULL resto.....but the rust has got to go....just do the minimum you need to make it look like a true survivor. The my mind a survivor looks like it did the day it left the showroom....just with age related marks from wear and tear (faded paint, upholstery showing wear and tear from normal use, an engine that's original but actually runs!!). This one has not really survived....its got some rust and does not run. That rust will only get worse so it needs dealing with now....even the floor pan corrosion,...as slight as it is, it wont heal itself. Still a very cool find though.  2thumbs
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« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2017, 05:57:42 PM »

Good point on the exterior rust-it must be addressed.

I am torn between making that decision or selling it and letting the new owner decide. My wife surprisingly says keep and restore but I've sunk so much money in these cars the thought of the cost of body work and paint leads me the other way. I can do all the mechanical things, but have no body work or paint skills and my age is catching up now on the mechanical side. The nice thing is there is no hurry to work on it, and I am entering 6 weeks of heavy work related travel so little will be done.

In reading the comments it is fun to see the different opinions-Charger Fan had me leaning towards nothing but getting it running, but Alfa makes common sense. Thanks for all of the suggestions guys, that's why I post the info as we go through it. Look for the Daytona to Alaska trip July, 2018!

Bob
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Bob J
1969 Daytona 4 speed, numbers matching Y2
1970 Superbird-"The Alaska Highway SuperBird" "Alpine White
1970 Superbird- "The 43 year barn find LimeLight" Bird
1994 Viper
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« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2017, 06:11:40 PM »

This site could stand to have another bird resto popcrn as long as the means are there to do so.

But, is there any more joy in having another wing car in the stable, being that you have one of each already restored?  If so, I'd say keep it and restore it.  If not, let someone else have the joy of the resto.
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« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2017, 09:59:21 AM »

Good point on the exterior rust-it must be addressed.

I am torn between making that decision or selling it and letting the new owner decide. My wife surprisingly says keep and restore but I've sunk so much money in these cars the thought of the cost of body work and paint leads me the other way. I can do all the mechanical things, but have no body work or paint skills and my age is catching up now on the mechanical side. The nice thing is there is no hurry to work on it, and I am entering 6 weeks of heavy work related travel so little will be done.

In reading the comments it is fun to see the different opinions-Charger Fan had me leaning towards nothing but getting it running, but Alfa makes common sense. Thanks for all of the suggestions guys, that's why I post the info as we go through it. Look for the Daytona to Alaska trip July, 2018!

Bob
you have two nice pretty wing cars  , I say leave it as is  , its so cool as is and i bet if you took it to a show and parked it next to your pretty white bird Most of the people will ignore your pretty car and come look at the Green one .  Twocents Twocents
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« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2017, 10:13:50 AM »

Good point on the exterior rust-it must be addressed.

I am torn between making that decision or selling it and letting the new owner decide. My wife surprisingly says keep and restore but I've sunk so much money in these cars the thought of the cost of body work and paint leads me the other way. I can do all the mechanical things, but have no body work or paint skills and my age is catching up now on the mechanical side. The nice thing is there is no hurry to work on it, and I am entering 6 weeks of heavy work related travel so little will be done.

In reading the comments it is fun to see the different opinions-Charger Fan had me leaning towards nothing but getting it running, but Alfa makes common sense. Thanks for all of the suggestions guys, that's why I post the info as we go through it. Look for the Daytona to Alaska trip July, 2018!

Bob
you have two nice pretty wing cars  , I say leave it as is  , its so cool as is and i bet if you took it to a show and parked it next to your pretty white bird Most of the people will ignore your pretty car and come look at the Green one .  Twocents Twocents


And I bet you will not be as worried if someone touched the green car vs the white car
I think there is a lot less stress and as much or more enjoyment in driving a less than perfect car
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« Reply #48 on: October 04, 2017, 10:11:43 AM »

agreed quarter panel rust needs to go. Weld in some new metal and blend the paint in. Fixing the rust at worse isnt going to take any value away from it. As mentioned it didnt survive well in that area, so why not fix it? Id probably address that floor rust too, a wire wheel and some por15 and paint overtop at a minimum. Not like the floor will get wet again so should be fine.
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« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2017, 06:57:59 PM »

Don't listen to the people that are saying fix the the rust/restore it etc...

They are still stuck in the past, the car hobby has grown to appreciate originality in all forms now!
You will get more looks, attention & appreciation leaving the car original(rust & all), and thus telling the story in first tense.
Once you restore it, spot the paint in, you are  not only erasing what you can't replace but you are also making a decision on originality (for the cars sake) that will reverberate into the cars future and future owners, thus changing its history.
Anybody with money can restore a car, and any average spectator can appreciate a shiny "as new" example of a rare car, but the un-tampared originality and history of your car is what makes it special, and to polish & buff that away is not something I would agree with.
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« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2017, 08:56:26 PM »

the un-tampared originality and history of your car is what makes it special

Well said.  2thumbs

Dare to be different!


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« Reply #51 on: October 06, 2017, 12:21:32 AM »

My vote,... leave it alone as much as possible.

I would fix only the things that hinder it from being drive-able, reliable or doesn't work.
I would enjoy driving it as is, as a cleaned up, or even a dirty barn find.
The mouse smell would definitely have to be fixed.  eek icon_smile_big
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« Reply #52 on: October 06, 2017, 12:46:59 AM »

Really!??? On a non rusty car I would agree 100% - originality is everything....but this car has rust....there is nothing attractive or value enhancing about rust, whether its old rust or new. Not to mention leaving it there will mean the car depreciating rather than growing in value as the rust gets worse (as we all know that when the rust gets in there it ONLY gets worse....and that's just the rust you CAN see!). Are you suggesting leave the rust until the holes get bigger or the floor pan perforates. At the very least the rust needs a chemical treatment to stop it getting worse (....and I've never found a substance that really works for more than a few months)....removing rust is the only real solution to that type of corrosion. It would be a shame to see the car slowly rusting away just to meet someone's requirements for originality. If everyone did that a lot of the high value fully restored cars on this forum would have rusted to the point of a one way trip to the crusher by now....is that what you really would want for it? ....especially on a car getting as rare as a real 'bird.
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« Reply #53 on: October 06, 2017, 07:50:12 AM »

Don't listen to the people that are saying fix the the rust/restore it etc...

They are still stuck in the past, the car hobby has grown to appreciate originality in all forms now!
You will get more looks, attention & appreciation leaving the car original(rust & all), and thus telling the story in first tense.
Once you restore it, spot the paint in, you are  not only erasing what you can't replace but you are also making a decision on originality (for the cars sake) that will reverberate into the cars future and future owners, thus changing its history.
Anybody with money can restore a car, and any average spectator can appreciate a shiny "as new" example of a rare car, but the un-tampared originality and history of your car is what makes it special, and to polish & buff that away is not something I would agree with.
cheers cheers  Here here   spot on   2thumbs
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« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2017, 07:51:59 AM »

Really!??? On a non rusty car I would agree 100% - originality is everything....but this car has rust....there is nothing attractive or value enhancing about rust, whether its old rust or new. Not to mention leaving it there will mean the car depreciating rather than growing in value as the rust gets worse (as we all know that when the rust gets in there it ONLY gets worse....and that's just the rust you CAN see!). Are you suggesting leave the rust until the holes get bigger or the floor pan perforates. At the very least the rust needs a chemical treatment to stop it getting worse (....and I've never found a substance that really works for more than a few months)....removing rust is the only real solution to that type of corrosion. It would be a shame to see the car slowly rusting away just to meet someone's requirements for originality. If everyone did that a lot of the high value fully restored cars on this forum would have rusted to the point of a one way trip to the crusher by now....is that what you really would want for it? ....especially on a car getting as rare as a real 'bird.
RUST IS NOT A CRIME  ,  and yes some of us like it that way  .   
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« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2017, 08:50:27 AM »

Surface rust on a survivor ok, but rot holes the size of your fists ?
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« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2017, 10:01:11 AM »

My vote,... leave it alone as much as possible.

I would fix only the things that hinder it from being drive-able, reliable or doesn't work.
I would enjoy driving it as is, as a cleaned up, or even a dirty barn find.
The mouse smell would definitely have to be fixed.  eek icon_smile_big

I think I would detail the car the way your doing it. Hopefully you can get the motor loosened up Then drive it the way it is. The rust may advance but when the car does get restored you'll still be putting on full Quarters/Wheelhouses ect.

My first car was a 69 charger that had a rot hole in the passenger side rear quarter about the size of a football. The only time it bothered me was when I was burning all the rubber off the rear tires and the car would fill up with smoke. icon_smile_big
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« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2017, 10:02:30 AM »

If you do decide to restore it then maybe offer it up the way it is I'm sure someone would like it the way it is plus do you really want to go thru another ground up resto again?
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