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Author Topic: A real Barn Find instead of a story-The Bird in the Barn for 43 years!)  (Read 9976 times)
68X426
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« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2017, 08:56:26 PM »

the un-tampared originality and history of your car is what makes it special

Well said.  2thumbs

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« Reply #51 on: October 06, 2017, 12:21:32 AM »

My vote,... leave it alone as much as possible.

I would fix only the things that hinder it from being drive-able, reliable or doesn't work.
I would enjoy driving it as is, as a cleaned up, or even a dirty barn find.
The mouse smell would definitely have to be fixed.  eek icon_smile_big
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alfaitalia
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« Reply #52 on: October 06, 2017, 12:46:59 AM »

Really!??? On a non rusty car I would agree 100% - originality is everything....but this car has rust....there is nothing attractive or value enhancing about rust, whether its old rust or new. Not to mention leaving it there will mean the car depreciating rather than growing in value as the rust gets worse (as we all know that when the rust gets in there it ONLY gets worse....and that's just the rust you CAN see!). Are you suggesting leave the rust until the holes get bigger or the floor pan perforates. At the very least the rust needs a chemical treatment to stop it getting worse (....and I've never found a substance that really works for more than a few months)....removing rust is the only real solution to that type of corrosion. It would be a shame to see the car slowly rusting away just to meet someone's requirements for originality. If everyone did that a lot of the high value fully restored cars on this forum would have rusted to the point of a one way trip to the crusher by now....is that what you really would want for it? ....especially on a car getting as rare as a real 'bird.
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moparstuart
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« Reply #53 on: October 06, 2017, 07:50:12 AM »

Don't listen to the people that are saying fix the the rust/restore it etc...

They are still stuck in the past, the car hobby has grown to appreciate originality in all forms now!
You will get more looks, attention & appreciation leaving the car original(rust & all), and thus telling the story in first tense.
Once you restore it, spot the paint in, you are  not only erasing what you can't replace but you are also making a decision on originality (for the cars sake) that will reverberate into the cars future and future owners, thus changing its history.
Anybody with money can restore a car, and any average spectator can appreciate a shiny "as new" example of a rare car, but the un-tampared originality and history of your car is what makes it special, and to polish & buff that away is not something I would agree with.
cheers cheers  Here here   spot on   2thumbs
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moparstuart
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« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2017, 07:51:59 AM »

Really!??? On a non rusty car I would agree 100% - originality is everything....but this car has rust....there is nothing attractive or value enhancing about rust, whether its old rust or new. Not to mention leaving it there will mean the car depreciating rather than growing in value as the rust gets worse (as we all know that when the rust gets in there it ONLY gets worse....and that's just the rust you CAN see!). Are you suggesting leave the rust until the holes get bigger or the floor pan perforates. At the very least the rust needs a chemical treatment to stop it getting worse (....and I've never found a substance that really works for more than a few months)....removing rust is the only real solution to that type of corrosion. It would be a shame to see the car slowly rusting away just to meet someone's requirements for originality. If everyone did that a lot of the high value fully restored cars on this forum would have rusted to the point of a one way trip to the crusher by now....is that what you really would want for it? ....especially on a car getting as rare as a real 'bird.
RUST IS NOT A CRIME  ,  and yes some of us like it that way  .   
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charger_fan_4ever
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« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2017, 08:50:27 AM »

Surface rust on a survivor ok, but rot holes the size of your fists ?
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chaaargerb
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« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2017, 10:01:11 AM »

My vote,... leave it alone as much as possible.

I would fix only the things that hinder it from being drive-able, reliable or doesn't work.
I would enjoy driving it as is, as a cleaned up, or even a dirty barn find.
The mouse smell would definitely have to be fixed.  eek icon_smile_big

I think I would detail the car the way your doing it. Hopefully you can get the motor loosened up Then drive it the way it is. The rust may advance but when the car does get restored you'll still be putting on full Quarters/Wheelhouses ect.

My first car was a 69 charger that had a rot hole in the passenger side rear quarter about the size of a football. The only time it bothered me was when I was burning all the rubber off the rear tires and the car would fill up with smoke. icon_smile_big
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chaaargerb
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« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2017, 10:02:30 AM »

If you do decide to restore it then maybe offer it up the way it is I'm sure someone would like it the way it is plus do you really want to go thru another ground up resto again?
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taxspeaker
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« Reply #58 on: October 29, 2017, 08:12:03 AM »

In the last month we have not done a ton of work because I am on overtime until Christmas. Here is what we have done:

We removed the radiator and determined it was rotten. We recored it while saving the top and bottom for originality-it looks original

We cleaned the carpet several times and found that although it is physically reusable the mouse pee smell is actually worse and we will order new carpet soon.

We examined the master cylinder and found it dry, and rather than fool around with safety we have ordered all the original OEM Mopar parts and have them in hand to rebuild the master and wheel cylinders, hoses, calipers shoes, pads and emergency brake lines

We examined the gas tank and found it did not have gas in it (A good thing!) but we were unable to remove it for cleaning because of the trailer hitch, becoming a future job.

After a month of trying everything known to man we have been unable to get the pistons to free up, so the engine will need pulling in the future. We took the hood off to get to things but just no luck and we do not want to damage the original engine and all the original parts.

We examined all the wiring and found no issues whatsoever other than a bad horn relay and the clock in the tic toc tach not working, which is normal.

We are getting ready to clean the surface rust on the interior floors and then seal them before putting in new carpet-the smell from the old carpet is just unbearable. We also replaced the back seat base frame and will need to recover it and the front seat because the holes are just too bad. Hoping for a sale at Legendary this week! Although we have a new headliner, I decided to live with the old one for a while just patching the holes.

In working under the dash we found the home of all the mice-it was the heater box, and the thing was an absolute EPA clean up site. Anyway, it is now out and has been sent off to TheHeaterBox guy for restoration. You don't want to get the interior back in working order with a bad heater core, motor and mice, so it makes sense.

I found a repro nose jack and have reinstalled the original spare wheel with a new tire, and both jacks , handles and bases. We also removed the 40+ year old aftermarket tires and junked them, saving the old wheels for future restoration. I also found an old clutch dust cover so the only thing I am now missing is a starter. We went back up yesterday to get a bill of sale I forgot to have signed and went through the garage and are unable to find the starter, but I do have one from 1970 that needs rebuilding so it is not a disaster.

Between now and Thanksgiving we are going to sand down the surface rust on the floor and seal it (there are no holes and it appears to all be surface rust), reinstall the interior and check everything there while cleaning it real good. Over Christmas we will do a complete brake rebuild and then decide whether to go forward. At that point I will probably be selling the car, the engine rebuild and body work is just more than I want to do and more than my boys have time to do-I will put it on here first before EBay.
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Bob J
1969 Daytona 4 speed, Y2 yellow
1970 Superbird-"The Alaska Highway SuperBird" "Alpine White
1970 Superbird-"The 43 year barn find LimeLight" Bird
1970 Superbird-"The Birmingham Int'l Raceway Pace Car" Bird
1994 Viper
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« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2017, 09:49:33 AM »

at 60K probably the best "buy" on a wing car in a long time.  cheers


At first glance, that may sound reasonable, but it sure sounds like that it now needs a full restoration. What's a realistic price that a restored 440 Bird 4-speed going for these days?
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69bronzeT5
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« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2017, 12:14:58 AM »

Hey all-

Here's an article I did on Bob's Superbird cheers

http://moparconnectionmagazine.com/finders-keepers-bob-jennings-1970-plymouth-superbird-barn-find/
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« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2017, 08:19:44 AM »

cool  nice article   
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« Reply #62 on: November 19, 2017, 01:50:24 PM »

This an incredible article, please donít stop posting on this anytime soon.  popcrn popcrn popcrn
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« Reply #63 on: November 19, 2017, 02:38:26 PM »


good write up Cody ,  nice work  2thumbs coolgleamA cheers
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« Reply #64 on: November 19, 2017, 11:40:42 PM »

Thank you for the kind words everyone! cheers
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« Reply #65 on: December 29, 2017, 02:47:43 PM »

I have decided not to sell this one, and am slowly working towards some acceptable solution. My goal is to not change anything right now, and to not replace parts. We are trying to rebuild bad parts so that it is still original and since so many replacement parts are Chinese junk. I also want to leave open options for the future on this car, while rebuilding or repairing anything that is safety related like brakes and fuel lines. We have laid out 4 different courses of action, listed in order of preference:

1st: Fix, rebuild or repair anything broken or safety related, rebuild the engine and drive it as the rusted hulk it is; or

2nd: Do all of the first goal and have a local body shop that we trust fix and repair the body and paint to an acceptable good quality driver; or

3rd: keep all the original stuff we can and make it an excellent driver with Alter-k-tion suspension, 4-wheel discs, tremec tranny and modern hi-po hemi drivetrain with better horsepower, dependability & mileage, adding a/c and modern seats and radio, while fixing the rust and painting it, so that we have a true Superbird resto-mod (But no 20" wheels!). If you were to ever resto-mod a Bird, this rusted out pile would be the one to do it, while keeping all the original parts if a purist wants to restore it after I am gone.

4th: Last choice-do a full restoration on the car. But then it would be another Bird nobody wants to drive, and that doesn't seem to be acceptable to me.

An update on repairs-most of which need to be done no matter what.

We have the interior stripped and now have put new Legendary covers on-the rear seat frame had to be replaced because it had rusted through from mouse pee, and the smell was stripping paint off of nearby cars and getting little kids to run away crying. We found a replacement frame in Florida. The driver side of the front bench had a hole in the seat cover that was not repairable, so we decided to just recover the front and the back.

While the seats are out over the holiday we are sanding off the rust on the floor inside, then will seal and repaint the floor. Sadly, again we have had to replace the carpet-not because of wear and tear, but because the smell was causing old ladies to faint and was attracting raccoons.

The door panels are all solid, as are the doors and rubber seals.

The heater box had completely rusted apart-it was the central world offices of Mickey Mouse and family. We had The Heater Box Guy in Pennsylvania fix and restore all that and now have it back. We also sent the radio to Ward's radio and had him replace some bad transistors in the radio and now have it back.

The glove box steel had all rusted away from the mouse pee (!) so I found a used 1 in a junkyard and have replaced the steel backing while cleaning up the front. It looks fine now, but the cardboard glove box was the source of many EPA violations for hazardous waste and noxious fumes from, again, the mouse pee. What do mice drink-acid?

All of the interior wiring is perfect and has been tested fine as well. The Tic-Toc tach was not repairable, so we are sending the instrument cluster to Dave Patek at Instrument Specialties next week to fix it and check everything else out. The mice peed everywhere, but did not seem to have chewed anything. We now have all interior lights working, turn signals and key-in buzzer working and any other interior item working by just cleaning connectors, replacing fuses and plugging things back in correctly. Since we are rebuilding the alternator and starter I am pulling the windshield wiper motor over the weekend to also rebuild it, so that pretty much all of the electrical stuff will be not only functional but also in safe shape.

We started into the brake system, which was totally non-functional. There was zero, and I mean zero brake fluid in any lines, calipers or cylinders and the lines had rusted out, so the next job is to rebuild (not replace) both rear wheel cylinders, calipers and master cylinder and replace all the brake lines. I have all the parts, it is just time I need to get it done. The one thing I have never done is rebuilt a power booster, and since you can't find one and this is original, I guess I will try to do that since the remainder of the brake system will be rebuilt. The emergency brake system is frozen, so I will pull the foot pedal assembly and start from there on cleaning & lubing it, and replacing the corroded lines.

The trailer hitch is going to have to come out. It blocks the gas tank, which is rusted through, and since I am going to replace the gas lines too, it may as well be pulled to see if we can fix it or if it needs to be replaced. I am not a fan of the aftermarket gas tanks-I had one from YearOne split in 1/2 on me on my trip to Alaska 2 years ago and I would rather have American made.

The rear springs look pretty nasty and I am trying to decide where to go with them. I vaguely remember getting springs re-arched when I was a Chrysler mechanic in a different century, but I wonder if they get brittle and can't be re-arched? We are going to put in a new set of shocks and see what it looks and feels like. The front suspension is beat to snot and was ready for a rebuild 43 years ago. I won't do anything there until I decide whether to go with option 3 above.

We have not been able to get the engine to turn over, so we will pull it once the weather warms up in the spring. Same, with the tranny and clutch.

Finally, we were able to get a body man to look at the car today. It needs quarters and a trunk lid, but the rest is repairable, although there is a ton of surface rust that will need media blasting. Awaiting a price on that to determine which of the above options to go for. Option 1 would be cool-driving around a safe but ratty old Joe Dirt Superbird is kind of appealing, but so is option 2. Option 3-Restomod will actually be cheaper than option 4 and more fun I think but will cost some major coin. Chime in with opinions if you've got them.

Hope everyone has a great New Year, thanks for keeping up with the long story.
Bob
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Bob J
1969 Daytona 4 speed, Y2 yellow
1970 Superbird-"The Alaska Highway SuperBird" "Alpine White
1970 Superbird-"The 43 year barn find LimeLight" Bird
1970 Superbird-"The Birmingham Int'l Raceway Pace Car" Bird
1994 Viper
Stevetona
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« Reply #66 on: December 29, 2017, 04:36:51 PM »

I would go with option 2 myself. 1 or 4 are ok, just don't resto-mod it! Roll Eyes
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alfaitalia
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« Reply #67 on: December 29, 2017, 04:41:10 PM »

4......but perhaps not to show car gold standard..and then just drive it ! 2thumbs Creating trailer queens should be illegal...it's an affront to all that cars were created for!
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« Reply #68 on: December 29, 2017, 04:51:52 PM »

1
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« Reply #69 on: December 29, 2017, 05:46:36 PM »

 iagree
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JB400
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« Reply #70 on: December 29, 2017, 09:09:00 PM »

2/4
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alfaitalia
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« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2017, 04:51:14 AM »

I knew lots would say 1......problem with that is the rust will only get worse....to see it slowly disintegrate after all the this time would be the worst option IMO!
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« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2017, 09:40:29 AM »

This car was neglected for 43 years.

Give it a proper restoration.

You don't have to go all show poodle.

Just nice.
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It started out as a rusty, green '69 R/T SE.

Now, it's well on it's way to being a Daytona.

A fake Daytona, that is.
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« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2017, 09:51:02 AM »

Fix the rust.  Nobody seeks fortune looking for a rusted 4k LBS Mopar.
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BDF
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« Reply #74 on: December 31, 2017, 05:36:45 PM »

I like option 2 as well. They're nice to look at but much more fun to drive!  Twocents 
Happy New Year & Decisions!:cheers:
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