The real future of hot rodding - a '68 Mustang gone electric

[Mike DC]

    


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vTCK9ywBA (the Mustang is mainly in the 2nd half of it)

50yo steel body street car.

1000 hp.  1800 lb-ft.

0-60:  1.79 sec
1/4-mile:  9.89 @ 140 mph

The car is this good while it carries a heavy battery load for their top speed goals.  The numbers would be even stupider with a short range setup.  

We'd better start getting used to the idea that our gasoline drivetrains are "part of the old-car charm" and not a hi-po choice anymore. 
   

[ws23rt]

I have always been impressed with the potential of electric cars.
Dumping fuel/energy to the tires is the name of the drag racing game.

I see electric as being just another new class.   Different strokes for different folks.

[A12 Superbee]

However, there is a growing belief, which is based in truth I might add, that the carbon footprint of electric cars is larger than that of petroleum powered cars. If this knowledge starts to gather traction and the electric car manufacturers can't get the carbon footprint down, then electric cars might not take over as quick as people think.

I read an interesting article the other day here in Australia how electric cars were already hurting our roads. Here, and I'm sure elsewhere, a % of the price of gasoline is taken by the government to put back into the cost of maintaining and making new roads. As electric cars are not paying this excise, the roads will invariably suffer as there's no money! Of course the government then decided that it may implement a tax on electricity sourced from power outlets on the highways but what about the cars recharged at home? That's a lot of money that the government is not going to get.

They or whatever replaces them, hydrogen, steam or Kryptonite powered cars will win in the end but it's not as close as people fear. I'm thinking 100 years or so.

[Mike DC]

  
Agreed, electric cars are only as carbon-free as the power plants supplying the town's electricity.  Lots of coal is still burned for power.  


A miles-driven tax will likely replace the gasoline taxes.  
I don't know what method they will use to track our mileage.  Probably whatever way invades our privacy the worst.  

[Baldwinvette77]

 

[Kern Dog]

No.
Nothing replaces the sound and feel of a rumbling V8 burning gasoline.

[alfaitalia]

I don't like it either.....even if the defence above about them being more polluting that gas cars because of the coal powered power stations is complete BS and its not even close in pollution created per vehicle. In the UK its better still with about half our electricity coming from renewable sources. But yes an engine is a living breathing thing (in my head at least!) and the sound is half of it to me...and not just V8s. I've got to get used to it as it will be illegal to sell a petrol (gas!) or diesel powered road car in the UK after 2040....that only 22 years. Cars already on the road wont be affected but the numbers will quickly decline I would guess (electric cars are already a large and growing market here)......just the diehards like us sticking to dino fuels. To lots of folks a car is just a tool to do a job (get from A to B!) like was washing machine or a phone....so they wont care what its powered by. Pity....end of an era.

[HPP]

Electric cars to carry a certain safety issue with them as their silent running does not alert pedestrians to their presence. As their numbers go up, expect car/pedestrian incidents to go up as well. Of course the remedy to that is to give them simulated engine sounds, a hum, or worse yet, some sort of beeper.

[Aero426]

Sorry, I will never accept this. 

[Chad L. Magee]

I have always been impressed with the potential of electric cars.
Dumping fuel/energy to the tires is the name of the drag racing game.

I see electric as being just another new class.   Different strokes for different folks.

Don't you mean "Different volts for different folks.".

I agree.  Electric cars can do some impressive feats when set up correctly....

[alfaitalia]

Electric cars to carry a certain safety issue with them as their silent running does not alert pedestrians to their presence. As their numbers go up, expect car/pedestrian incidents to go up as well. Of course the remedy to that is to give them simulated engine sounds, a hum, or worse yet, some sort of beeper.

.....alternatively the idiot pedestrians could look before they step out into the road!! LOL. TBH at cruising speed they are not a lot quieter than a modern fully silenced gas engine. A lot of the noise you here when a car passes is tyres and the sound of the car passing through the air. Modern sub 2.0 litre engines can hardly be heard.

[alfaitalia]

Sorry, I will never accept this. 

........depending on how old you are now you might get little choice . I will be about 73 when it becomes law here so hopefully will have a few years driving left!!!.....cant imagine other countries will be far behind. The problems, in a huge country like yours, will take lots longer to overcome than here.....just the huge gaps between places make charging an issue.....but batteries are leaping forward in ability .....the 1000mile charge interval is not far away apparently! Not saying I like it.....but its gonna happen.

[Mike DC]

  
There will be a learning curve with electric safety & practicality.  But that's nothing new.  

Ford Pinto gas tanks were still exploding 100 years after gas cars were invented and 60 years after they were common.    

Modern (gas) economy cars already have engines hardly louder than their tire drag.


Maybe cars will become plug-in-only.  Maybe cars will carry little backup gasoline engines to recharge the batteries on longer trips.  But either way, electric motors will be powering the car's wheels in the future.  It's inevitable.  They simply do the job better.  

[6pkrtse]

No mention that it is probably over a 250K build though.....

[tan top]

No.
Nothing replaces the sound and feel of a rumbling V8 burning gasoline.

agreed   

[Mike DC]

No mention that it is probably over a 250K build though.....

Not too far off.  I think the conversion was like $125k + your car.  


A lot probably depends on how fast you wanna go.  A regular gasoline drivetrain isn't cheap when you want a 572" V8 + trans + Dana 60 + fuel & cooling systems.  The electric Mustang is every bit that fast.  And there are kits to convert an old VW Beetle to a plain vanilla electric cruiser for like $10 grand.    


Check back in 10 years.  Production electric parts will trickle down from junkyards, dealerships, the aftermarket ball will start rolling, etc.  

[INTMD8]

The performance is impressive but I just have no interest in it. Same with Tesla.

There's a lot more to enjoying a vehicle than just the numbers. 

If it ran 7's for 10k I still would have no interest.

[Brass]

I think electric motors lack the palpable thrill and appeal of a gas engine but the technology is cool and it will continue to improve. 

[JB400]

It's going to come to a choice some day soon.  Either enjoy your Charger as garage/ museum art, or convert it and enjoy it.


The choice is yours.

[Aero426]

It's going to come to a choice some day soon.  Either enjoy your Charger as garage/ museum art, or convert it and enjoy it.


The choice is yours.

This is why there are lobbying organizations like SEMA to advocate for the hobby. 

[ws23rt]

I think electric motors lack the palpable thrill and appeal of a gas engine but the technology is cool and it will continue to improve.  

I agree.  One can get fun with acceleration on carnival rides but that is just a small part of the fun to be had with this aging hobby.

Drag racing has evolved to essentially riding on a gas explosion. Imo An electric explosion is just a different source of energy.

[Mike DC]

Some modern sporty cars are already pumping fake engine revving noise into the cabin with the audio system speakers.  Seriously. 

[JR]

It's going to come to a choice some day soon.  Either enjoy your Charger as garage/ museum art, or convert it and enjoy it.


The choice is yours.

Im sorry, but that is a bit hyperbolic. I'll never understand the "they're coming for our V8s!" phobia.

No one took horses away when the car came along. No one is going to take away your classic car if electric cars become common place. Even if the U.S. adopted a mandate similar to France's, no new gasoline cars after 2040 rule, they aren't going to come collect your old ones. Especially not as long as the oil companies are allowed to lobby millions of dollars in Washington every year.

I welcome electric cars. Cleaner air to breath, less dependency on fossil fuels, and more fuel left over for our fun cars. It's a win/win.

I wouldn't mind having an electric car for a daily commute. Or an electric A body project. That zombie mustang drivetrain in a Hemi Dart clone would be cool.

[JB400]

Sorry, but there's no phobia to pin it on.  It's the way the world works. Once a new idea catches on and becomes mainstream, something else is going to get phased out.  The stables got phased out and replaced with garages when the horseless carriage become mainstream.  The Kodak camera got the ax when digital cameras become mainstream.

Just wait until a electric skateboard is perfected.  Then, you can 3d print your car in your choice of configuration and drive it. 

[ws23rt]

How fast will the first (yet to be primitive) "transporters" be? Will they just start out slow like --miles per nano sec.?
I'm thinking along the lines of Parsecs per nano sec.
Being "fastest" is wide open and room to go fast is not a problem.

Hey you-- with the checkered flag--- we have some questions?  

If you can go to the track and win a race and come back home -before you left- I would say that was a good day.

[70B5Cuda]

Electric cars to carry a certain safety issue with them as their silent running does not alert pedestrians to their presence. As their numbers go up, expect car/pedestrian incidents to go up as well. Of course the remedy to that is to give them simulated engine sounds, a hum, or worse yet, some sort of beeper.

This reminds me of a classic episode of THE OFFICE (episode called "The duel") in which Dwight and Andy are in a feud because they are both dating the same lady. They set up a time to meet in the office parking lot after work and fight it out to see who gets the girl. Andy attaches a note to the fence for Dwight and while Dwight is reading it (with his back to the parking lot), Andy drives up silently behind Dwight in his PRIUS and pins Dwight's legs against the fence. It was hilarious.

[alfaitalia]

Sorry, but there's no phobia to pin it on.  It's the way the world works. Once a new idea catches on and becomes mainstream, something else is going to get phased out.  The stables got phased out and replaced with garages when the horseless carriage become mainstream.  The Kodak camera got the ax when digital cameras become mainstream.

Just wait until a electric skateboard is perfected.  Then, you can 3d print your car in your choice of configuration and drive it. 

True but they did not ban use of the old Kodak....you can use it today if you wish in the same way you can still ride a horse! When the electric law comes in here in 2022 they wont ban petrol or diesel cars....they are just going to let the natural death of old cars occur and number will reduce naturally. I'm sure it would be the same there if/when it happens. The way electric cars are selling here already there might not be so many oil powered cars by 2022 anyway!! Over 130,000 electric cars where sold in the UK in 2017 (only 3500 in 2013!)....out of about 2.5million total sales. So not a lot (about 5.2%) but its growing super fast and will be near 10% this year.

[Mike DC]

       
Agreed.  Economics will do more to cause the changeover than artificial restrictions. 

Some research is already saying that the total cost of ownership of EVs is beating gasoline now.  Electrics are dramatically simpler than gas drivetrains, mechanically speaking.  There are some big components that cost thousands of dollars . . . but that's it.  Those parts take a long time to fail.  Not much else needs maintenance.  Not much labor costs for any of it.  Etc.   


I love a rumbling gasoline engine as much as the next guy but its era is almost over.   
 

[INTMD8]

       


I love a rumbling gasoline engine as much as the next guy but its era is almost over.   
 

I wonder if they said that in 1884 when the first production electric vehicle was released for many of the same reasons cited here. 

[Aero426]

       


Some research is already saying that the total cost of ownership of EVs is beating gasoline now. 

Yes, research by proponents of electric cars.   No bias there, or anything. 

[HPP]

Anyone ever see a cradle to grave comparison of  electric vs petrol?

They may not produce emissions like a gasoline vehicle, which can be great for many urban areas, but they do, IMO, simply transfer the the carbon footprint from one place to another with electric generation, and create a different waste stream than a traditional car. Is it truly better or does it just make people feel better about it?

[JR]

Anyone ever see a cradle to grave comparison of  electric vs petrol?

They may not produce emissions like a gasoline vehicle, which can be great for many urban areas, but they do, IMO, simply transfer the the carbon footprint from one place to another with electric generation, and create a different waste stream than a traditional car. Is it truly better or does it just make people feel better about it?

The electric cars still have a smaller carbon footprint over the life of the vehicle.

-As gasoline cars age, and components fail, it's common to see emissions equipment become inoperable. So the average 10 year old vehicle (especially in non emissions counties) likely pollutes significantly more than it's electric counterpart. With gas cars, were dependent on millions and millions of individuals to keep their cars running clean.  (We know how this turns out.)

- With electric, the power plants are responsible for the carbon footprint. But each and every year, plants become more efficient, and we develop and refine new ways to harvest electricity. Solar/hydro/wind/biomass etc, all are sources of clean energy, and if they are powering electric vehicles, the carbon footprint is significantly reduced.
 
-Overall, electric vehicles produce 9 times less C02 than gas powered ones. Source.

http://www.lightsonsolar.com/emissions-and-efficiency-in-electric-cars-versus-gasoline-cars/

But again, no reason why we can't have both. Let mom and pop have electric cars to drive to work, and save the gasoline and fun cars for us. There is no reason we can't enjoy both.

[Mike DC]

 

Yes, research by proponents of electric cars.   No bias there, or anything.  

They have always made the claim but it's not just them anymore.  The feedback from more mainstream sources is growing.  

Anyone ever see a cradle to grave comparison of  electric vs petrol?

They may not produce emissions like a gasoline vehicle, which can be great for many urban areas, but they do, IMO, simply transfer the the carbon footprint from one place to another with electric generation, and create a different waste stream than a traditional car. Is it truly better or does it just make people feel better about it?

I don't disagree.  I'm just pointing out that pretty soon EVs are gonna beat us on immediate practicality/performance alone, aside from the environmental stuff.  They are mechanically much simpler and they waste less energy between the throttle and the tires. 

Lawmakers can argue and dick around with subsidies for a while but the raw physics will eventually win out.  It's coming.  Big electric motors under the hood are becoming the better mousetrap.  

[timmycharger]

I am a huge Formula 1 fan and in the last 5 years or so there has been a push to make the engines more of a hybrid type which to me personally is awful as they are unreliable and make the cars sound like crap compared to the V12s, 10's and 8's that I remember. 

To take it even a step further, they have a new(ish) racing series called Formula E which is fully electric race cars. Very strange to hear/watch, and despite having a field of many former (washed up) F1 drivers, I am not seeing lots of hype around it.

[Aero426]

I am a huge Formula 1 fan and in the last 5 years or so there has been a push to make the engines more of a hybrid type which to me personally is awful as they are unreliable and make the cars sound like crap compared to the V12s, 10's and 8's that I remember.  

To take it even a step further, they have a new(ish) racing series called Formula E which is fully electric race cars. Very strange to hear/watch, and despite having a field of many former (washed up) F1 drivers, I am not seeing lots of hype around it.

Manufacturers (Audi, Porsche, Jaguar) are literally FALLING OVER THEMSELVES to be involved with Formula E.     They have to change cars in mid-race because the cars can't make the distance.     It's a joke that does not appeal to most traditional race fans.      There is no way I will ever watch this.    It is the answer to a question that no one is asking.  

[Mike DC]

  
Electrics still suck at that (and may always suck at it).  Long ranges.  

A tank of gas is a better way to store a ton of energy in a small lightweight package.  The best batteries are still very big & heavy in comparison.  

[Aero426]

I see a number of old car enthusiasts posting more and more positive comments about electric cars.   It seems to me that if you really like your old cars,   you are being the enemy of yourself. 

[alfaitalia]

The more people they like electric cars (myself not included!) the better for everyone on the long term. Cleaner air aside....the less fuel they burn the more for us..lol! Our cars will be even more special when internal combustion engines are a novelty. The only issue (here in the UK at least) becomes when dino fueled cars become so scarce that the demand for petrol makes it uneconomic to refine. They probably won't happen in my life....but my son might struggle to get gas for his cars!

Electric cars..bring it on.
Note.....a customer of mine gave me a lift in his Tesla X.......I was very impressed. Nicely built with massive torque. .....and a ridiculous price.lol.

[Chad L. Magee]

but my son might struggle to get gas for his cars!

I am not so sure that will be the case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGGabrorRS8

or if you prefer diesel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njIYHtFmcSs

The catch is that you need to have electrical energy to do the conversion process.  However, that could come from renewable solar, wind, water power sources...

Or even my favorite power source: Nuclear....

[Chad L. Magee]

As for the regular complaint of heavy batteries on electric cars, there is research in reducing the weight while increasing the amount of charge each can carry:

https://newatlas.com/solid-state-magnesium-battery/52386/

combined with:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18269-plastic-bags-recycled-into-nanotubes/

and this:

https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/29/samsung-graphene-ball-battery-fast-charging/

might yield what is needed.  The key to getting it to work right is in the correct combination of nanomaterials working in tandum....

[DAY CLONA]

It's going to come to a choice some day soon.  Either enjoy your Charger as garage/ museum art, or convert it and enjoy it.


The choice is yours.

Im sorry, but that is a bit hyperbolic. I'll never understand the "they're coming for our V8s!" phobia.

No one took horses away when the car came along. No one is going to take away your classic car if electric cars become common place.

I think one day our gas powered vehicles will become like "horses", sure you can have one, just not on the public roads...

[TruckDriver]

No.
Nothing replaces the sound and feel of a rumbling V8 burning gasoline.

[Aero426]

I think one day our gas powered vehicles will become like "horses", sure you can have one, just not on the public roads...

Red Barchetta

[alfaitalia]

Really?.....you cant take horses on the road in the USA???

[moparstuart]

I think one day our gas powered vehicles will become like "horses", sure you can have one, just not on the public roads...

Red Barchetta

" The Motor Law "

[JR]

It's going to come to a choice some day soon.  Either enjoy your Charger as garage/ museum art, or convert it and enjoy it.


The choice is yours.

Im sorry, but that is a bit hyperbolic. I'll never understand the "they're coming for our V8s!" phobia.

No one took horses away when the car came along. No one is going to take away your classic car if electric cars become common place.

I think one day our gas powered vehicles will become like "horses", sure you can have one, just not on the public roads...

100 years ago, there was an almost even distribution of electric, steam, and gasoline powered vehicles. Of course, gasoline won out, but no one then or now ever said you couldn't drive a steam powered vehicle on public roads. You are allowed to register a Stanley Steamer for road use just like any other vehicle.

Im confident, one day gasoline vehicles will be considered the same. A relic of the past, but perfectly legal to own and use if you want.

Again, big oil lobbies millions and millions of dollars in Washington every year. There's no possible way they'd let Washington outlaw their major Cash cow. Money talks, and the U.S. is owned by the oligarchs.

[timmycharger]

I always joke with my car buddies that in the near future we will be fighting over gasoline like the Mad Max "Road Warrior" movie.   I can see it now, pulling beside a gas tanker on the highway and having someone jump out and syphon the gas while its moving 

[Charger_Fan]

Really?.....you cant take horses on the road in the USA???

Are there horses frequently cruising the roads in the UK???

[Troy]

Really?.....you cant take horses on the road in the USA???

It's rather amazing what you can actually take on the roads here without a nanny state. Horses included.
https://www.facebook.com/JungleVT/videos/2218104321664731/

Troy

[Aero426]

I think one day our gas powered vehicles will become like "horses", sure you can have one, just not on the public roads...

Red Barchetta

" The Motor Law "

Zactly.

[alfaitalia]

Younger people are open to electric, but it's still in its infancy.

First petrol car....1886

First electric car....1834. ....................So not that much in infancy. Imagine where they might be now with the same amount of R & D that's gone into gas cars over that time !

[Troy]

Younger people are open to electric, but it's still in its infancy.

First petrol car....1886

First electric car....1834. ....................So not that much in infancy. Imagine where they might be now with the same amount of R & D that's gone into gas cars over that time !

Well, the major difference is that combustion engine technology was feasible for many, many years when good battery technology just didn't exist. If you think about the evolution, fuel injection is what may have "saved" the combustion engine (well, then variable valves and all the new doodads we have today). Tesla started out with laptop batteries wired together so the advances in computers and demand for portable devices is really what makes electric cars a "thing" now. I'm not sure it could have been practical or profitable sooner (and technically it isn't profitable today). The electric motor technology has existed - the range was horrible without a power source. I think it is fascinating but also feel that things happen when the time is right. Not saying people shouldn't push boundaries - that's what will give us an even better alternative than we have now - but the overall advances in science will likely lead to an "accidental discovery" of something useful in a specialized area.

Troy

[INTMD8]

Really?.....you cant take horses on the road in the USA???

Yes you can. I drove through a mennonite town when picking up my 68 Charger.   Horse drawn carriages everywhere.  They even have brake lights! 

[alfaitalia]

...I had to look up "Mennonite"......never heard that word.