unrestored Black 69 charger R/T

[tan top]

  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Dodge-Charger-RT/122946077426?hash=item1ca02842f2:g:lfMAAOSwwZtac85n&vxp=mtr

[tan top]

 

[six-tee-nine]

Wow,
Thats a desirable combo right there.

[Biohazardtwo]

I think it was repainted because the trunk latch is black .

[Fitz73Chrgr]

Dang.  

[bakerhillpins]

The black paint, lighting/shadows, and gravel driveway do a really good job of hiding the rot low on the body.

The rear quarters behind the wheels are gone, and whats with the box cut out of the front passenger fender where the Pentastar is supposed to be? 

[DixieRestoParts]

It will be interesting to see what it brings. Would love to look at the car in person.

[bakerhillpins]

Absolutely, It's a beautiful car.  Wish I had the money to put that in my garage.

[1968Fever]

I had seen this car for sale on Cars-On-Line for $70K

https://www.cars-on-line.com/gen3-cars/col1/posting/93258

[Mytur Binsdirti]

The black paint, lighting/shadows, and gravel driveway do a really good job of hiding the rot low on the body.

The rear quarters behind the wheels are gone, and whats with the box cut out of the front passenger fender where the Pentastar is supposed to be?  

Agreed.


"Does have some surface rust beginning to bubble in a few spots"


That car has more than surface rust and the ad purposely lacks any real detailed pictures, but he conveniently throws in a picture of all the other cars he has.    

[Charger_Fan]

...and whats with the box cut out of the front passenger fender where the Pentastar is supposed to be? 

It looks like someone made a rust hole square with a dremel or something. There's a lot of rust on that fender above the headlight, too.

[INTMD8]

The black paint, lighting/shadows, and gravel driveway do a really good job of hiding the rot low on the body.

The rear quarters behind the wheels are gone, and whats with the box cut out of the front passenger fender where the Pentastar is supposed to be?  

Agreed.


"Does have some surface rust beginning to bubble in a few spots"


That car has more than surface rust and the ad purposely lacks any real detailed pictures, but he conveniently throws in a picture of all the other cars he has.    

Agreed. How does sections of metal completely missing qualify as surface rust?

[6bblgt]

"bubbles" 

[6bblgt]

  more "bubbles"

[Troy]

That's not rust - those are air vent modifications...

Troy

[Mytur Binsdirti]

$65,300.00 worth of bidding now.   

Can you say shill bidding?

[fc7_plumcrazy]

hmhmhmhmhm.
The car was in germany in spring 2016 and for sale.
I took pics of it in march at the Retro Classics in germany including fender tag.

It has some rust trough, the rear valance is completly shot, too.

Carsten

[Ghoste]

Someone needs to look at their purchase in person before bidding.

[Challenger340]

An X9 Black, Low mileage, Original and Un-restored A33 4 Spd Tack Pack example, even in it's basically "what you see is what you get" 50 years later condition....
is NOT exactly a "dime a dozen" commodity ?

just say'in here,
pretty unique and rare Charger to see these days in it's survivor condition ? 
I wish I had the money, beautiful Charger !

[toocheaptosmoke]

That's some well crafted picture taking, on first/second glances it looked pretty clean! 

[F8-4life]

I don't see how this is worth anything over 40.

[Ghoste]

And to be fair, without being able to see it, we also aren't in a position to say it's a project either.  But I do think it's hiding more than the ad lets on.  Either way we all know it's best to see them in person before buying.

[Charger_Fan]

I wonder what the floor pans look like? I'm betting on more "bubbles".

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

$65,300.00 worth of bidding now.   

Can you say shill bidding?

Ya think?

I recently sold a clean 1969 Charger R/T in the ballpark, but didn't have the issues of that POS. 

[redmist]

Someone has done a half assed job in MS Paint on the lower rockers on that car, I have a 34" 4K Monitor, and it stands out clear as day. Looks like it was attacked with the airbrush tool! haha

[1970Moparmann]

"Does have some surface rust beginning to bubble in a few spots"

Check out the hole on the drivers side!   Wow, $70k.....

[rarefish]

I really got excited when I first saw the pics of this car on ebay, but after reading what was posted here and now looking more carefully at the photos. I'm now seeing a much different car that I first thought.
I wonder how many more surprises await a new owner?

[Kern Dog]

Dana Axles in B bodies only came in 2 ratios. 3.54 and 4.10. The Window sticker (Repro or original ?) Lists a 3.55 axle ratio, a number exclusive to the 8.75 axle. Was that a mistake by the factory or in a repro effort ?

(Edited...I mistakenly wrote 3.55 and 4.10)

[cdr]

Dana Axles in B bodies only came in 2 ratios. 3.55 and 4.10. The Window sticker (Repro or original ?) Lists a 3.55 axle ratio, a number exclusive to the 8.75 axle. Was that a mistake by the factory or in a repro effort ?

3.54 & 4.10 for the Dana

[Kern Dog]

I screwed that up. I edited it for correction. I meant that the Dana never came with a 3.55 ratio yet the window sticker lists a 3.55 ratio.

[XS29LA47V21]

It will be interesting to see what it brings. Would love to look at the car in person.

I agree completely.  Love looking at charger pics and in person.....  I think I see a very original car partially in there, but really not as original as presented.  Options put in a holly grail great optioned car for many, including me assuming all number and paperwork.  The fender tag looks nice and original to me.  But holly crap that has some rust in places a ton a Charger do not, which really has me questioning many other areas.  The stripe has zero cracks, at least in photo.  imo option, to have no cracks in a stripe would be completely crazy nice original.... which I personal have never seen.  

Here let me share couple photos of my truly original paint B5 RT 4spd in perspective.  To not have certain wear in places, even small dings and cracked strip would be really an amazing car.  I am sure they exist somewhere out there.  Not unlike that A4 RT I personally think it is a repaint too, maybe early on, but we (I) are not seeing them in person.  

Besides, holly badman Robin, I think at least today I would take less than this cars 65 price for mine, lol...

Couple of original wear photos for perspective...  Thin paint on hood scallop and old stripe...

[Kern Dog]

MMmmmmm...B-5 Blue ! Me Likeee !!

[70B5Cuda]

With front fender rust like that, you would expect the rest of the car to look much worse. It must have had some early trapped debris that was never removed.

What surprises me is the lack of door dings down the sides. I have a survivor 69 Charger and I swear that thing must have been parked in a mall parking lot all it's life....tons of door dings. 

[F8-4life]

Wow that B5 Rt is something else, would love to own a car like that.
I like seeing the cracking on an original stripe, very cool and legit.

[Challenger340]

Shill Bidder upped by $100.

[INTMD8]

Wow that B5 Rt is something else, would love to own a car like that.
I like seeing the cracking on an original stripe, very cool and legit.

Agreed, that car is awesome 

[70 sublime]

Original paint, unrestored, SURVIVOR!
'69 Charger RT, 440, 4spd, dana, factory black, white interior, original paint, unrestored, purchased from original owners in Nebraska, who had the car until 2012.
74k original miles, matching numbers motor, drive-train never out of car; runs great, drives straight, has all of its original parts; original paint, original vinyl top; interior is completely original (seat covers, carpet, headliner, dash, door panels, etc); all original sheet metal and body panels, solid trunk with original spare and jack; original tag, original window sticker, remnants of a build sheet; phenomenal car! Does have some surface rust beginning to bubble in a few spots, which is typical for an UNRESTORED car. Very solid in every respect! I am happy to provide more detailed pics to those that are genuinely interested. Don't wait! You will never find another 69 RT like this!

When its gone... its GONE

Further details: 512-348-0011  or  bpj@mindspring.com

I am down-sizing my collection and have several other rare Mopars FOR SALE!!
On Feb-09-18 at 12:59:51 PST, seller added the following information:
**************************************************************************

For some reason the "Buy It Now" option is not being displayed in this ad, but.....
FIRST 70k BUYS this car!!!

[lukedukem]

I wonder what the floor pans look like? I'm betting on more "bubbles".

And under that vinyl top too.

Luke

[XS29LA47V21]

Wow that B5 Rt is something else, would love to own a car like that.
I like seeing the cracking on an original stripe, very cool and legit.

Agreed, that car is awesome 

Thank you all.  Yes a time capsule should look it..... 

Mine has plenty of small dings, road rash behind wheels and wear where you would expect it, like feet dragging to bar at door sill and hit door below window crank.  I think it is unreasonable that in almost 50 years that something will not happen.  My 2-1/2 year old car that has 37,000 miles has likely been between two other cars less than 20 times ever, is always parked in Egypt or have great spot at work.... no door dings, zero.. not a mark... but has 3-6 chips already along the hood and 11 yr old son light scratch into the trunk.  It just happens, unless it is a 600 mile 1966 Ferrari or something.   Most of the adds I have seen for survivor Chargers seem to really need to be looked at in person and the photos are just to generic to show the originality or how great maybe it is.  But there are so, so, so few original paint cars out there in muscle cars with any motor combo. 

Honestly I enjoy the seeing the antique car it is and really wonder what the stories are on the larger dings on mine before me. Yes, I have added one too.  They also show how sloppy the factory was with things which restorations often miss. 

[70 sublime]

Car is relisted again with a buy it now price of $72 500

1969 Dodge Charger
1969 Dodge Charger RT, 440, 4spd, Black/wht, Survivor
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bpj07 (3 )
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Condition:Used
Time left: Time left: 6d 05h Thursday, 15:00
Price:US $72,500.00
Approximately C $92,096.71
Immediate payment of is required.
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https://www.ebay.ca/itm/122971850891?ul_noapp=true

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Pa-lease. he's asking restored money for something that needs to be restored.   

[6pkrtse]

She is rough but complete. I like it. One of my favorite combos right there but not worthy of 65+ in my opinion.

[Challenger340]

  Problem with bashing his price is, IMO, find another factory X9 / X9 UN-restored in the same condition to compare pricing with ?

Mine is UN-restored as well but in far better condition with none of the "goofy" rust issues that one has, albeit, that one is a far more desirable 4 spd, versus ours is just a column shift but an R/T SE, nonetheless, I wouldn't sell ours for any less than $65K.
I will be interested to see what it actually sells for ?
if it Sells ?

[INTMD8]

Problem with bashing his price is, IMO, find another factory X9 / X9 UN-restored in the same condition to compare pricing with ?

Mine is UN-restored as well but in far better condition with none of the "goofy" rust issues that one has, albeit, that one is a far more desirable 4 spd, versus ours is just a column shift but an R/T SE, nonetheless, I wouldn't sell ours for any less than $65K.
I will be interested to see what it actually sells for ?
if it Sells ?

The condition is really the problem though. A car like the one owned by XS29LA47V21, absolutely would not restore it and would be proud to drive it as-is.

The ebay car however, I could not drive something around with major rust holes in every panel.  Too far gone to leave unrestored.

Sure it's a plus that it's rare and complete but if all originality will be lost to a restoration I can't see paying a premium for "survivor" status.

[Challenger340]

Problem with bashing his price is, IMO, find another factory X9 / X9 UN-restored in the same condition to compare pricing with ?

Mine is UN-restored as well but in far better condition with none of the "goofy" rust issues that one has, albeit, that one is a far more desirable 4 spd, versus ours is just a column shift but an R/T SE, nonetheless, I wouldn't sell ours for any less than $65K.
I will be interested to see what it actually sells for ?
if it Sells ?

The condition is really the problem though. A car like the one owned by XS29LA47V21, absolutely would not restore it and would be proud to drive it as-is.

The ebay car however, I could not drive something around with major rust holes in every panel.  Too far gone to leave unrestored.

Sure it's a plus that it's rare and complete but if all originality will be lost to a restoration I can't see paying a premium for "survivor" status.

One would have to inspect the Car up close here obviously ?
but I am NOT 100% sure from what I am seeing, that the repairs couldn't be performed properly without a complete restoration ? and retain much of the originality.
May be not ? I dunno here.

Ours was repainted back in the early 80's, an exterior only repaint with minor fixups.  
Nothing obviously to the same extent of the Ebay Car, but still, if it's otherwise in good shape the potential may be there ?

[INTMD8]

I would not need to inspect it up close here (obviously??)

I guess someone could try to patch up all the holes and paint it. Now you have new exterior paint and a weathered interior. 

Probably would be better to hang new 1/4s on it so now the vinyl roof is coming off too.

So it ends up half restored and half original. I'll stand by my statement that it doesn't warrant paying a premium for survivor status based on the amount of work it needs.

If one of you guys wants to drop 65k+ on it or whatever they need and then begin repairs I think that would be great, just not something I would do.

[JB400]

I remember seeing a car like this one up in Harrisonville, Mo about 20 years ago.  I wonder if it's the same car.

[RCCthatsme]

What is your definition of "unrestored"

[Challenger340]

What is your definition of "unrestored"

I guess that depends on your definition of "restored" ? and opinions will vary as they should.

But IMO,  if you have a Car that's had an exterior repaint only, nothing else touched, modified, or rebuilt en masse at once, other than normal periodic maintenance over it's history as req'd like tune ups, belts, hoses, brake linings, Original Un-rebuilt Engine/Trans, Exhaust System still factory original, that again here IMO, would tend to be best described as an UNrestored example....
versus,
what is more commonly seen and described today as "restored", where not only has the Engine/Trans usually been removed/rebuilt, but most all other parts also replaced or rebuilt, with many body panels replaced up to and including a complete rotisserie job, and pretty much all that work occurring in a concurrent/simultaneous time period in it's history.

I don't believe anyone can quantify or dictate for anyone else the correct use of "restored" versus "UN-restored" when describing an entire Car, other than as an initial description for expectations that much of the car is still untouched and factory original ?

[alfaitalia]

I agree with most of that.....but if it's had a complete exterior repaint, rather then just touch up or perhaps crash damage repair...then is not unrestored. Just my 2 pence worth.

[cdr]

I agree with most of that.....but if it's had a complete exterior repaint, rather then just touch up or perhaps crash damage repair...then is not unrestored. Just my 2 pence worth.

restored is what it says. made like it was when NEW, that would be EVERYTHING , not just a repaint, Challenger340's car has original paint door jams,underhood, almost everything on the car is original it is NOT a restored car,,, FACT !!!!  it is an AWESOME car

[Troy]

So the passenger front fender is kind of cropped in most of the pictures but it's possible the rust along the front edge could be from it being wrecked/dented.

Troy

[Troy]

The apparent image editing as mentioned above...

I didn't resize the pictures because I didn't want to introduce any artifacts. You can see that the rocker has been blurred out (in the first picture they took out the door gap so I know this isn't just flat black spray paint on the car itself). The lower rear valance corner looks odd too.

So any way, you're looking at at least a front fender, trunk drop downs, lower quarters, and rockers as far as body work. The lower valance itself isn't visible in any pictures and I'd want to see some frame details based on the size of the holes in the lower body. Unless you feel like spending $70k just to drive a cool car (nearly $100k if your Canadian), you're going to have to dump a decent amount into it to get the metal solid (then paint to match which will make the chrome and interior look like garbage and so on).

Troy

[Challenger340]

Yeah, my guess from the Pics is probably too far gone for the "repair" route in sustaining sufficient originality to warrant that, but seeing as how the Seller would seem to be at least suggesting a portion of the asking price to that viability ?  it seemed worthy to me anyways to discuss that option, get opinions, as anyone considering buying the Car should ? (NOT me).
I mean he is also claiming 74,000 original miles here ? with the rust showing, which IMO may suggest an eastern rust belt Car to have those issues at THAT mileage ?

Personally, I think BUYING a Car for $60K that invariably will need another $40-$50K in total resto might be NUTS !

That front fender rust is weird ?
IMO, indicative of potentially far greater unseen issues.

[Troy]

Yeah, my guess from the Pics is probably too far gone for the "repair" route in sustaining sufficient originality to warrant that, but seeing as how the Seller would seem to be at least suggesting a portion of the asking price to that viability ?  it seemed worthy to me anyways to discuss that option, get opinions, as anyone considering buying the Car should ? (NOT me).
I mean he is also claiming 74,000 original miles here ? with the rust showing, which IMO may suggest an eastern rust belt Car to have those issues at THAT mileage ?

Personally, I think BUYING a Car for $60K that invariably will need another $40-$50K in total resto might be NUTS !

That front fender rust is weird ?
IMO, indicative of potentially far greater unseen issues.

I live in Ohio. Every time I've seen a Charger with rust like that front fender the bottom of the car has been just as bad. Granted, you sometimes get strange rust on these cars depending on where they were sitting (outside under a tree for example), whether the tires were flat, and so on. I've seen fairly solid cars with one or two spots of inexplicable rust. This car does not seem like one of them. The fact that the pictures have clearly been "doctored" reinforces my belief in this.

I do feel like it's rare and should be restored (not a chance I'd drive it "as is") - but it has to be at a price that makes it worthwhile. You can ask $300k for the remnants of a Hemi Daytona but I doubt it will get much real interest. With prices the way they are today, I think it could sell for some ridiculous amount - but that amount is still far less than the asking price.

Troy

[Challenger340]

Yeah, my guess from the Pics is probably too far gone for the "repair" route in sustaining sufficient originality to warrant that, but seeing as how the Seller would seem to be at least suggesting a portion of the asking price to that viability ?  it seemed worthy to me anyways to discuss that option, get opinions, as anyone considering buying the Car should ? (NOT me).
I mean he is also claiming 74,000 original miles here ? with the rust showing, which IMO may suggest an eastern rust belt Car to have those issues at THAT mileage ?

Personally, I think BUYING a Car for $60K that invariably will need another $40-$50K in total resto might be NUTS !

That front fender rust is weird ?
IMO, indicative of potentially far greater unseen issues.

I live in Ohio. Every time I've seen a Charger with rust like that front fender the bottom of the car has been just as bad. Granted, you sometimes get strange rust on these cars depending on where they were sitting (outside under a tree for example), whether the tires were flat, and so on. I've seen fairly solid cars with one or two spots of inexplicable rust. This car does not seem like one of them. The fact that the pictures have clearly been "doctored" reinforces my belief in this.

I do feel like it's rare and should be restored (not a chance I'd drive it "as is") - but it has to be at a price that makes it worthwhile. You can ask $300k for the remnants of a Hemi Daytona but I doubt it will get much real interest. With prices the way they are today, I think it could sell for some ridiculous amount - but that amount is still far less than the asking price.

Troy

Home sick with a head cold and bored today, so I researched the owner feedback on Ebay.
Very curiously to me anyways, was his feedback shows this Charger as SOLD during it's prior auction for $65,400 ?
see here:
https://feedback.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=bpj07&ftab=AllFeedback&myworld=true&rt=nc

It even has the feedback from the Buyer as "AAA I'm very satisfied" ?

Yet now it's relisted ?
Someone is paying some handsome Ebay Fee's on that prior auction showing "completed" !

[6bblgt]

eBay fees for a completed reserve auction are somewhere around $127 - hardly "handsome" for someone with some big $$$ cars