Where Are Prices Going ?

[JMF]

So in the last 10 or so years prices seem to have been going higher and higher, i'm just wondering how high they will likely to go as these cars are becoming out of reach to most people , i'm talking 68-70's here, i've owned a 68 Charger in the past and would like to buy another one but for what I sold my one for I could only get a project Charger now, the same is happening with 67/68 Mustang Fastbacks, my old 67 Fastback the guy is now selling for almost twice what I sold it for a few years back, the same seems to be happening with Ferraris, the less desirable 80's ones are now increasing in price because the 60's and 70's cars are becoming too expensive.

[Alaskan_TA]

Hopefully down.

That way, we can all get more of the cars we want. 

[alfaitalia]

Can't see it happening anytime soon......just look at the delusional thread....although lots don't sell.....many of them are selling at prices most of us think ridiculous. They are even more expensive over here!

[Daytona R/T SE]

I hope prices continue to skyrocket.

I'd like to trade one of my project Chargers for a real steel bodied 1934 Ford three window coupe project car.

Those ain't cheap, either.

[68X426]

They will continue up and up, until the next financial crisis, and then a severe recession (temporarily) slows pricing down.  

But can you afford one then if you're personally hurting in that crisis?

[stripedelete]

They can be financed.  The sky's the limit!

[Todd Wilson]

I would imagine they will stay high and maybe continue to go up. The people who drove these cars in the beginning are now retired or close to it (60-70+). Most probably have some disposable income and want to relive their youth and buying these cars again.  Guys my age (45-55) bought these cars when they were used 15 year old clunkers and continued on with the muscle car era. We are approaching retirement within the next 15 -20 years and perhaps disposable income and will buy another one of these cars again to relive our youth. Kinda a double wammy or a double era in my opinion.  My dad bought em new and street raced back in the 60's! I rode around as a kid in the back seat of em with no car seat or seat belt  and when it was time to drive it was time to get one of those cool old cars dad drove before he had to sell for a family truckster..................we raced em around and cruised. Then it was time to sell for a family truckster and so on and so forth...............


Todd

[F8-4life]

Look at all the aftermarket industry, automotive related tv programming, general enthusiasm etc about cars lately.
Maybe its just me but it all seems much more popular compared to 10 or 15 years ago.
I think these cars and the prices are going up still.
Prices may drop on basket case projects because nobody has the skill or facilitys to restore them.
But runners or good projects will always hold good value as long as we have fuel to run them.
Look at all the 70's 80's toyotas, datsuns, along with 4x4s and vans...all are becoming more popular as time goes by because people are starting to realize that era is gone for good.
This is just the more common stuff, but if your talking super desirable muscle cars..just use your imagination, then after that go run out and buy one before your priced out!

[70B5Cuda]

I see the 2nd Gen Chargers holding and gaining value in the next 10 years but not at the same rate/pace they have been appreciating in the last 10 years. 10 years takes the 18 year old kids who bought them in the late 70's/early 80's to retirement age. At that point, I expect the prices to come down a bit but I don't expect the prices to depreciate as much as other classics due to their iconic/timeless styling.

[lloyd3]

70B5Cuda:  I agree with your take on it.  They are iconic, but... they require a care and feeding component that will seem very foreign to the folks that didn't grow up with them.  The fact that they have now somewhat become "objets d'art" will likely help them avoid some of the downside that probably awaits most of the "boomer" collectibles and trophies.  Time will tell, of course.

[Bad B-rad]

Maybe it is just me but, I personally have noticed that in the last 4-5 years a big bump in the General Lee replicas being built, or cars being bought to be turned into GL's, now if they ever make it back on the road as restored GL's only time will tell.
I noticed a few guys on ebay and the auto round up style mags seam to find the 2nd gen Chargers, paint them orange,(as is, just a nice new coat of paint,with little or no rust dent repair) and then bump up the price. (almost seams like that's what they do, find them, and bring them to their shop,and just resell them, I almost bought a 383 4 speed from one of them in Chicago)

It is a huge shame that these cars are priced out of the hands of they guys that would love to own them.


Now MAYBE in 10 or so years there may be a huge amount of orange Lee cars hitting the market, just begging to be turned back into regular Chargers, and with any luck they can be had a touch cheaper then plain restored Chargers.

But I guess now that I have my 69, running again, I should hope they continue to rise and rise in value, not sure that is how I truly  feel though.
(took me forever to save to afford a  solid 69 Charger again)

[Challenger340]

I can see the "supply" side of the equation increasing as the boomer's expire ?
unfortunately though,
the somewhat iconic notoriety around 2nd Gen Charger's in the musclecar genre has now been firmly entrenched, which bodes pressure on the "demand" side for the foreseeable future.

My call would be sideways for the current High Prices to acquire at best, with some built in potential for even Higher valuations, but the entry point supported by a very low probability of collapse/correction risk to the overall investment.

The "elephant in the room" so to speak, will be the ongoing Fed un-winding of accommodative policy with rising interest rates against Inflation ?
because,
for the last 10 years there was absolutely no point parking $100K in a Bank at DONUT interest, hence inflated valuations on everything perceived as a hedge for investment to retain any value whatsoever including old musclecars.  What I mean is if anyone thinks the DOW index at 26,000 was based on "fundamentals" ?  Let's just say I will choose to dis-agree for now.

[Mike DC]

          
I agree that the economy seems over-inflated.  Also, when everything with long-term value keeps getting more expensive . . . it means nothing is.  More likely the currency is losing value.  IMO muscle cars haven't gained enormous value in the last 20 years, so much as held onto their real value in spite of inflation & economy monkey business.  

The better quality of restoration/restomod work has helped (greatly) add price too.  But that's a different factor from "gaining value" in the collectible sense.  Most (non-VIN) muscle cars still don't cost more than the price of building a duplicate copy of it using a bunch of repro parts.  That's more of a practical value than a collectible value.  The VIN cars have "collectible value" in the traditional sense because you cannot manufacture more of it today.

--------
 
I don't see a big increase in GLs being built lately.  Maybe there's an increase in the ones hitting the market, with prices being high.  

There have been guys (and sometimes shops) doing GL conversions to make a buck for 15+ years now.  It's absolutely nothing new.  Back in 2004 the producers of the 'Dukes' remake movie bought half a dozen Chargers from a (very crooked) GL builder to use for stunt beaters.

[73rallye440magnum]

My opinion is based on wishful thinking (I want one!) with a foundation of logic.

We all age at the same rate. The first generation that created experiences with these cars when new don't have many years of active lifestyle ahead of them. The generation that experienced them as children is approaching retirement age.

This community is so enthusiastic about them that we think it's normal to be crazy about Chargers. Think about the lamest hobby you have heard of other people engaging in. They acknowledge us the same way as we consider them- losers.

The distribution of wealth controlled by the generations mentioned above greatly exceeds that of those upcoming. My generation (I'm 30) does not have the financial means to maintain existing prices.

Consider that, and the inability of anyone I grew up with to turn a wrench, and prepare to experience a slow response of inflation adjusted decreases in sale prices.

The market will be flooded with cars that have a small pool of interested buyers. So many people my age with money buy new cars because the performance is available. Keep in mind my introduction to the economy was the 2008 bust.

[INTMD8]

Many seem to think there is a big correlation between the age of a person and their desire for these vehicles.

I happen to disagree.

Many older cars, and yes especially 68-70 Chargers are beautiful cars because they are beautiful, not because of nostalgia.

With safety regulations none of the bloated designs of today will ever match the beauty and simplicity of older cars.

I was born in 78 and I own a 59 Cadillac because I love the looks and design. Certainly don't remember it growing up.

Can't be many people that grew up with Duesenbergs either. I keep looking but pricing on those have not dropped yet.  Maybe in another 50 years

[73rallye440magnum]

I agree with you, part of the allure is because they are beautiful.

Your Duesenberg mention is a Hemi Daytona comparison in my opinion. It will always have collectible status because it is rare and has historical significance.

[INTMD8]

I agree with you, part of the allure is because they are beautiful.

Your Duesenberg mention is a Hemi Daytona comparison in my opinion. It will always have collectible status because it is rare and has historical significance.

Yes, agreed on the Duesenberg example, just trying to illustrate age/value.

If you search listings on ebay, vehicles, oldest first minimum price 70000 there's pretty much an endless amount of very expensive, very old vehicles and plenty that would not be considered all that rare.

Still desirable and valuable even though most people growing up with them are not around any longer.

[Mike DC]

    
The baby-boom generation is roughly 1/4th of the US population and it controls about 3/4ths of the wealth.


Younger people still like cool cars (thanks Hollywood).  They just cannot outbid their parents & grandparents.    

[A12 Superbee]

Another possible factor is that old people are spending the kids inheritance nowadays. They are taking those holidays, the river cruises in Europe, the trips to all the places they dreamt of as kids, they are spoiling themselves and flying business or first class, staying at 5 star hotels and drinking the good stuff from the top shelf and they are doing it often.

People are living longer, which means they are spending longer and there won't be that massive or even moderate inheritance for the kids, they'll be left with the small apartment that nana and pop downsized to so they didn't have to worry about the garden while they were off cruising the oceans of the world.

There'll be a flood of cars on the market in 20 or so years and no-one with the money to buy them.

[F8-4life]

What about all the young guys/girls that are into the rat rods and 50's stuff?
This seems to show that timeless design and other draws out-way any generational interest based on personal memorys or nastalgia.
I am 28 and love mopars enough to actually own a couple.
I believe there are plenty of people like me out there.

[VegasCharger]

They can be financed.  The sky's the limit!

Financing a car IMO is NOT a good choice. Then again that's MY opinion. But most Americans do it and wonder why they are broke.

[Mike DC]

 
Depends on what you compare it to.


Taking out a loan for a restored car seems downright wise if it avoids paying for a restoration.

[MoParJW]

Here in Europe I see younger people and even kids still getting enthusiastic about these cars, but it seems that many don't have the means or don't want to go through the trouble of owning one.

As an early millennial (I'm 33), for me it was still common to work on cars and bikes growing up, but I rarely see younger people do that anymore around here.

I've been trying to get my younger brother into the hobby for years now, he loves MoPars but living in a City with the typical millennial lifestyle it's just not happening.

[stripedelete]

They can be financed.  The sky's the limit!

Financing a car IMO is NOT a good choice. Then again that's MY opinion. But most Americans do it and wonder why they are broke.

You are correct.  It is "NOT a good choice".   But, money is cheap and it's happening.  I believe it's one of several contributing factors to seemingly unrealistic prices.

But then again, I can't figure out 72 month financing on $50-80k+ pickup trucks.  Talk about wondering why you're broke.

[RECHRGD]

Another possible factor is that old people are spending the kids inheritance nowadays. They are taking those holidays, the river cruises in Europe, the trips to all the places they dreamt of as kids, they are spoiling themselves and flying business or first class, staying at 5 star hotels and drinking the good stuff from the top shelf and they are doing it often.

People are living longer, which means they are spending longer and there won't be that massive or even moderate inheritance for the kids, they'll be left with the small apartment that nana and pop downsized to so they didn't have to worry about the garden while they were off cruising the oceans of the world.

There'll be a flood of cars on the market in 20 or so years and no-one with the money to buy them.

I see your point, but don't think that scenario will create a huge impact.  At least I hope not.  Most (but certainly not all) us old retired baby boomers worked our asses off to accumulate whatever wealth we've achieved.  Good for us if we are still healthy enough to go out reap the benefits of it.  I can't stand the entitlement mentality of some younger folks.  They are owed nothing.  If we raised our kids right, with good morals and work ethic, then they should have the tools and desire to build their own wealth.  Just waiting for Mom and Dad to pass and complaining about what they spend is just sick.....

[Fonzy]

I see your point, but don't think that scenario will create a huge impact.  At least I hope not.  Most (but certainly not all) us old retired baby boomers worked our asses off to accumulate whatever wealth we've achieved.  Good for us if we are still healthy enough to go out reap the benefits of it.  I can't stand the entitlement mentality of some younger folks.  They are owed nothing.  If we raised our kids right, with good morals and work ethic, then they should have the tools and desire to build their own wealth.  Just waiting for Mom and Dad to pass and complaining about what they spend is just sick.....

Nothing says 'I love you' and 'I appreciate everything you did for me' more than waiting for your parents to have the decency to die so your own life can finally start.

[70B5Cuda]

Another possible factor is that old people are spending the kids inheritance nowadays. They are taking those holidays, the river cruises in Europe, the trips to all the places they dreamt of as kids, they are spoiling themselves and flying business or first class, staying at 5 star hotels and drinking the good stuff from the top shelf and they are doing it often.

People are living longer, which means they are spending longer and there won't be that massive or even moderate inheritance for the kids, they'll be left with the small apartment that nana and pop downsized to so they didn't have to worry about the garden while they were off cruising the oceans of the world.

There'll be a flood of cars on the market in 20 or so years and no-one with the money to buy them.

I see your point, but don't think that scenario will create a huge impact.  At least I hope not.  Most (but certainly not all) us old retired baby boomers worked our asses off to accumulate whatever wealth we've achieved.  Good for us if we are still healthy enough to go out reap the benefits of it.  I can't stand the entitlement mentality of some younger folks.  They are owed nothing.  If we raised our kids right, with good morals and work ethic, then they should have the tools and desire to build their own wealth.  Just waiting for Mom and Dad to pass and complaining about what they spend is just sick.....

Agreed. If you're counting on an inheritance, you did something wrong. Waiting for someone to die just you get a payday is just wrong. I plan to not tell my beneficiaries what they're getting. Same goes for paying for my college kids college. I've seen too many college kids be irresponsible because "mom and dad are paying for it". I will be telling my kids that I will not be paying for their college. I believe that it will help them make better financial decisions since they will be responsible for the tuition bill. Maybe I can help them out after the fact but I am not promising that up front...before the decisions are made.

[Mike DC]

Complaining about younger folks being lazy & entitled is like complaining that their music is too loud & sexual and they drive too fast.  Young people aren't different now, we just got old. 

[Brass]

Complaining about younger folks being lazy & entitled is like complaining that their music is too loud & sexual and they drive too fast.  Young people aren't different now, we just got old. 

Agreed... and then some...

[RECHRGD]

Complaining about younger folks being lazy & entitled is like complaining that their music is too loud & sexual and they drive too fast.  Young people aren't different now, we just got old. 

Agreed... and then some...

Not complaining about young people in general.  Just the ones that fit the description.  Every generation has had them.  Sorry I didn't articulate my comment enough for you.

[Fonzy]

Think it rather has to do with decency than age. But what do I know I'm just a 29 year old kid

[Challenger340]

Complaining about younger folks being lazy & entitled is like complaining that their music is too loud & sexual and they drive too fast.  Young people aren't different now, we just got old. 

That's my take EXACTLY !

[RCCthatsme]

I'm about to pop $85K for one, so I hope the market goes up or now worse than sideways!

[OldGuy]

I like what my estate planning attorney had to say - "If you have any money left over for your kids when you die, then you didn't plan properly"...! 

[lloyd3]

It does suck to get old, but...it beats the alternative.  Had mine out today (tried to cheer up my son after a hard day at school).  Pretty smoky on start up. Valve guides, I presume?  Got lots of attention at the gas station, so I guess it's still worth something. As far as inheritance goes, my boy isn't going to get much, other than a good start.  He might get the car someday, time will tell on that one. I'll likely be a serious codger by then.

[Fred]

I like what my estate planning attorney had to say - "If you have any money left over for your kids when you die, then you didn't plan properly"...!