I called Orignial owner of my 69 Charger and...........

[Bad B-rad]

So I have the paper trail of my car from sold new on 7/3/69.(in Cali from 1969, till 12-2016)
And I tracked down the original owners phone number and a few members of the family phone numbers.
The original owner sold car to his nephew in 2006, and then he(the nephew,) sold it right away to a guy who did nothing but store it for ten years and sell it to me.
My car is #'s matching 383 4Bbl auto a/c PS/PB car, and has 7,000 miles but was hit in rear 1/4 in early 1980's.
SO I tracked down info on the nephew who saddly was a young man of about 36 when he passed away in 2014, so I can not talk to him.
I called the land line of orignial owner and it was no longer in service, but with a little more poking around I was able to get a new number for him(he still lives at the same address as on the reg from the 70's), and  phone number of a few family members.
I called the new number for orignial owner, and no answer, but I was able to leave a message, so I left my name and number and reason I wish to speak with him. And I hope he will call me back.

So after that, I went down the list to one of the org owners son's, I dial up that number and it rings a few times and then a young man anwsers, I ask for Keith, and I get a hold on a min, and he yells "dad, Phone,
SO now I am excited, because I have the correct number(for keith anyway) and I will soon have answers to the questions I have about my car.
I am now a few momments away from talking to someone who know this car from almost new!!!!!(HOW COOL IS THIS!!!!!)
"Hello", says the man on the phone.
"Hello" I say, and then I begin with "My name is Brad Kelly, I am from New York and I have a green 1969 Dodge Charger, that once belonged to Ron, and I was wondering if I could talk with him about the car I am restoring". I am so excited I can't stand it.
"How did you get this number?" He shouts, and before I can answer he adds "I am not giving out any ones phone number!!, I am gonna hang up now!!"
(Now I already have what I think is Rons phone number, but I can see he is kinda angry already, and I do not want to piss him off, I just want answers to help fill in the mystery of my car)

"Well I am not asking for you to give out any ones phone number, but if you could just take down my number, and maybe pass it along to Ron, so I could maybe talk with him about this car I am restoring, That would be great" I said to him, as polite and curtious  as I can be!!

"How did you get my name and number", he shouts.
"Well," I said," I have bought this Charger, and I have a ton of paperwork on the car, and your name came up as a family member, and I figured you may be able to help me.
I have a bill of sale from orignial owner to the nephew, and newphew passed away in 2014, so I can not talk with him about the car, so, the next in line would be the org owner, and you came up as a contact number for him.
I wanted to talk with him, about the low mileage of the car and how it got wrecked?
Was it wrecked by him or the nephew?, and was it put away right after it was hit as I was told?
I just had a few questions about the car I am restoring and I wanted t try and talk with some one about the history of it.
Maybe even you can answer the questions,I have ?" I said, again trying to be polite.(I know he is already upset and I want to keep him calm)
"Well you are talking about some very private and cold, big things/ events  that happened in our familly and I am hanging up now!" CLICK!!!

Now I changed the names (in the story)as to respect the privacy of the guy I seam to have offended.

SO this only adds more to the mystery of my cars history.

I feel like calling him  again would not be the best idea!
I may still get a reply from the number I left a message on(of the orig owner), or I guess I could maybe have my wife reach out to the nephew's wife, in a few days and see if she has anyluck?
I dont want to piss anyone off, but now I want to know MORE!!!!!!!
I also thought about maybe writing a letter to the son of owner, the guy who I talked to, and sending photos of the car and just explain again how I have no ill will to anyone, that this is not a scam, I just was trying to fill in the blank of this cars history.
This car has a story to tell, and like it or not the story involves this guys father, and nephew.
Now this guy dosent owe me anything, and I respect that, but I feel like most people would not mind talking about there old mans car for a bit?

My father bought a 1995 GMC top kick low pro with IMT crane and body on it with a CAT engine in it,BRAND NEW, that my evil step mom stole upon my old man's death and if some dude called me about it, I would talk about it for a few,I wouldnt freak out, and my old man had given me that truck, before she screw me and my brother.
But that is just me.

So anyway I posted this to gauge some advice on the next step I should take, if that should be to call, write a letter, try someone else, or let my wife give it a shot, as maybe a female voice may sound less of a threat?(She sound very young, like talking to a nine year old girl)Or even to just let it be, and mind my own bee's wax!!???

I somehow fired this guy up in a bad way and that was not what I was trying to do, I also get the feeling maybe this car has been the center of a family issue, being that the orignial guy had it untill 2006(with 7,000 miles, and a minor crash in the early 80's)) and in 2006 sold it to his nephew, who turned around and sold it right away.
What would be your advice if you were I?
This maybe the center of some family issues he dosent want to relive or stir up again

[6bblgt]

sounds like some bad blood in the original owner's family, probably over the "who was supposed to get the Charger"

you really don't think that car has 7,000 miles on it , correct?    107,000 at least

[Bad B-rad]

As far as the mileage anything is possible, but I have paper work from in 1979 and the car had 1700 miles on it, then.
Now the car may have 7,000 miles but it was not always stored in a climate controlled storage, LOL!!!!The story I got was orignal owner had it garaged, and in 2006 when 2nd guy got it it sat outside for a bit.

Anything is possiable, it could have 107,000 miles, but I got her running, and most everthing works!!!(The A/C has no refrigerant in the compressor, and a few vacuum lines were dry rotted  at the brake booster, and the sun destroyed the top and carpet, and some of the top of door panels, have small sun/ age cracks)
The window wipers are TIGHT, the rubber on the brake and gas are mint(a lot of times they have wear on the corner of the brake, from being hit so much)
The doors shut TIGHT, with just a light swing, The seats are mint, head liner has small, small tear.
Car has all factory paint(except what I have repainted on the engine)

All factory brake and fuel lines are present, but all drive belts were replaced, as were top rad hose, and one of the heater hose set of clamps.
I broke the lower rad hose spring clamp, when messing with it.
Also all numbers match as far as parts that would be on a 69 Charger built in april, more then just the vin on the engine and trans(distributer #'s, Carb#'s, Intake manifold#'s, water pump#'s alternator #'s and so on)
And most of the old Mopars I have had, so far(68,000, and 50,000, mile cars) have a bunch of repacement parts on it from sitting or service, but also this is first Cali car I have ever owned.

I am not a fool, but all things point to it being a super well cared for(for most of the cars 49 years any way!!)
As the car is almost 100% complete(even jack is in place) Spare is gone, but I have the orignal deep dish wheel covers.

The car needs work, but as of now I am more interstead in trying to get some history from the family to help figure out if it is a true 7,000 mile car or not.

[spoolinhard]

The guy obviously wants to be left alone. I would respect his wishes; he doesn't feel the same as you about having a discussion. I don't think you (or your wife) are going to change his mind.  As far as the nephews widow is concerned, proceed with caution. In the grand scheme of life, a car is not really important. It's nice to have documentation. You are not entitled to it.

[Bad B-rad]

That's why I am asking for members thoughts on the matter, because sometimes when your are so close to something,like this, you need to step back to get a clear head.

I am not trying to piss anyone off or make anyone angry with me.
and maybe he will think it over and call me back.
I don't want to make any more moves with out a clear head as far as I feel I may not get a 3rd chance at this.

[Moparsaver]

That's why I am asking for members thoughts on the matter, because sometimes when your are so close to something,like this, you need to step back to get a clear head.

I am not trying to piss anyone off or make anyone angry with me.
and maybe he will think it over and call me back.
I don't want to make any more moves with out a clear head as far as I feel I may not get a 3rd chance at this.

Why is there such a "need to know" on any information?   It is your car now, enjoy it.   And stop stalking prior owners!   

[Bad B-rad]

 Why is there such a "need to know" on any information?   It is your car now, enjoy it.   And stop stalking prior owners!   
[/quote]


I didn't see the harm in reaching out to the original owner, as it would be cool to know more about it, how and when it was in the crash, and why it was so important to save the car in such good shape after the crash, if they weren't going to fix it?

As I said he does not owe me anything, but I have gotten cool stuff by talking with former owners of cars.

I bought a first year Jeep Wrangler, that was a low mile example, and it was rolling on 3 of the original four stock rims.
One day I got a knock on my door, and it was a guy who owned the Jeep a few years ago, and wanted to know if I wanted the "Missing" rim, he still had it.
So I got the last rim for it and got to know the history of the Jeep a bit more, but more importantly, I gained a friend, I still do all the repair work on his and his sons cars and trucks, and I plow his driveway(no charge, friend price,LOL) Just last week he dropped off a almost brand new portable basket ball hoop set, the kind you fill the base with water, for my two son, so sometimes you never know!

Again, they don't owe me anything, and, as of now, I have not yet turned into a stalker, LOL!!
I just figured before I proceed, anymore, before I cross any lines, I would get some advice, from you guys.
Maybe some of you have been down this road before.
Like I had said if someone called me up about a car I used to own I would be ok with that, but I understand people are different and that does not make him a bad guy.

I think best bet is to just leave it be, and maybe sent him a letter with a few photos of the car explaining  my posistion and include a gift card to the outback or some restaurant for him to enjoy, and let him know I will not be bothering him anymore and I am just a dude who loves old Mopars and wanted to know a bit more of this cars history.
And hope he decides to reply to me.

[Bad B-rad]

Maybe there is some crazy CHRISTINE type story with this car, and I have an evil possessed demon car in my garage, that would explain the tin foil wrapped hamburgers on the dash, the name Artie Cunningham on the key fob, and the reason why the guy hung up on me and acted like I just crapped in his corn flakes!!!



My wife thinks maybe the issue was in the way the nephew got the car(that maybe the issue itself, that he got it)and sold it right away, after they had held on to it for so long.


As of now I am gonna let it be, and go bleed the brakes on the Charger,and hope I get a return phone call.

[69CoronetRT]

Fwiw....I agree with you.

I was fortunate to find and correspond with the original owner of my car. I was able to compile a complete ownership trail back to the dealer and get a letter from the owner detailing a little more history on the car.

Humans are generally curious beings. Researching the history of a car is like searching for your ancestry. Every thing and person has a story. We like to know where things come from and their background.

Good luck on your search. I'd suggest a short, polite letter including your phone number. I'd also encourage finding other potential contact links in case this one is a dead end.

[BeeOrange]

I have a somewhat similar story:

I traced my 70 Super Bee back to the original owner. I spoke with him and had a great conversation. The car was sold new from Motor Sales and Service in Ames Iowa. I decided to try and find history on the dealership. I traced it back to the owner when the car was sold (the car stayed at the dealership for a year and I was wondering if they used it for some reason) via the town hall. Found a few people with the same last name as the dealers owners and started making calls. I reached the owners nephew. He was very polite, telling me his aunt (owners wife) was still alive. Then said I am asking you nicely not to contact her as the business closing caused much grief for her and he didn't want me to cause her to relive it. I had her name and number via the internet, just had called the nephew first. I told him I wouldn't call her and thanked him for his time. He thanked me and that was it, I never called her.

People who are not into cars don't get our natural want to know our cars history.

Sometimes it's best to let sleeping dogs be. No sense stirring up bad memories over a car, no matter how cool or special the car may be.

My two cents

[triple_green]

I have to agree, the guy you talked to was pretty clear about not contacting them.

Not everybody is excited about these cars as we are.

The original owner of my car died of cancer in her 40s. Her husband held onto the car until his late 60s when he was remarrying and moving. Even after I had the car mostly restored, I called him once and offered to show it to him, he was polite but I could tell not really interested.

Sometime in the early 80s, a grandson had been given possession of the car it had a couple of stickers - local HS parking permit. He had done some things like try to recaulk the trunk lid. (Didn't understand that the back window corners were rotted out). But the Grandpa told me the grandson had misbehaved and he took the car away from him and put it back in storage.

Anyway, I always wondered if that grandson was going to come up to me at a car show and chew me out.

[Bad B-rad]

WOW 69CoronetR/T, that is great news, you have all that paperwork and info on your car!!!!!
You are a lucky man!!!

I look at it kinda like you do.
How many of these cars are still unrestored and in good shape?
And how many have paper trails from day 1?
And to have stories and of photos of the car at the begining of its life, and/or all along it's journey, that sweet!!!
I would have to say that a most of the regular cars(not rare one of one Hemi cars, or a 6BBL cars)but regular cars, Cars bought by regular people their history is gone, lost forever, not that the car cant have a great future with out knowledge of the past, that's not what I am saying.
Different strokes rule the world(or so the song goes), and I love to read the car books for the tales of the cars complete life, not just, I got her all rusty and worn out and I fixed everything up, new again.
I love to hear the car was bought by a guy who did such and such, and he drove it until "X" and then he gave it to his kids to drive and then they sold it to buy a new family car, and then the next guy who bought it  turned it into a drag car, until he parked it and so on.
I love Mopar muscle cars, and I love to hear as much of the cars life story as I can, that is interesting to me.
If given the chance I think most of us would like to know a bit our cars past.
I live in NY about 25-30 min from the 1969 woodstock music festival site, and in 1997, I bought a 1968 Coronet 440, the guy I got that car from had told me the car had been to woodstock in 1969 and he personaly took it to the woodstock in 94, I thought that was cool,the car had been to both woodstocks.
If that Coronet could TALK!!!!!

[Bad B-rad]

I also must say, I do LOVE hearing your guys stories of your past experience with similar situation.



I maybe hard headed, but I know I was polite on the phone,and the feeling I got from the guy was, A) He thinks this is some sort of scam and I was trying to get some personal info out of him, or B) the car crash or the nephew selling the car was a very sore subject that may have been a source of a family feud.

And if he hung up because he thought I was a scammer then there maybe some hope, if it is because the car is the center of a family issue, and it has bad JU-JU- attached to it for them, then I probably have reached the end of the road with the issue.
I just wish I knew what side of the coin the guy thought I was, because in  scenario "A" it is just a misunderstanding, and scenario "B" I am an asshole if I call him again!!!

Again I do love at least hearing your stories, and I will be letting sleeping dogs lie for now.
    Thanks for advice and your stories!!!!!!
Keep them coming!!

[Challenger340]

I had never known much about my Charger's prior history in the 1970's.
Then just by a fluke conversation with a guy one day that I can't get into here, I was given a "name" of a family just down the highway about 30 miles of all places !
I looked in the phone Book.... and Presto... there it was, so I called !

I had a really great conversation with the guy's wife, she was really excited to hear from me, and a very pleasant lady when I said I was calling about the old Charger her husband used to own ? Apologized for any intrusion, and hoped she didn't mind me calling, but I was just trying to find out the Charger's history ? how it was still in such great shape ? somebody must have really looked after it ? etc., etc., ?
* "oh he is not home right now, but he will be so glad you phoned"
* "he absolutely loved that Car"
she then proceeded to fill in the Charger's history in the 70's until early 80's
* "I have our wedding photo's with that Car".... "I'll get you some copies made"
more questions from me....
* "No it was in absolutely beautiful shape, no rust, we only sold it to buy a house after the wedding"
* Nope, he never touched that Car mechanically, no need, it ran great and was very reliable, and I would know because I looked after ALL his money"
and on and on...
she was a really nice woman, very pleasant, and loved reminiscing about the Charger.  I suspected their initial romance may have.... ahem....  "blossomed" in the Charger ? LOL

Then she said something that explains why since that day's phone call to her, now NOBODY will answer the phone or return my messages ? And why the widow I bought the Charger from was very strangely "vague" at best about the Charger's prior history ? or feigned she didn't know ? (I thought she was hiding something)
* "you know he was trying to Buy the Charger back for many years, even after ***** passed away, but there was some contention in price between him and the widow"
Like I said...
now nobody will answer the phone or return my messages ?
I figure when he came home and she related I had called.... all hell broke loose !  
Such a nice lady, I hope I didn't get her in too much trouble with the husband, who very clearly still holds some ill feelings around NOT being able to re-acquire the Charger back from the widow where I bought it ?

[DixieRestoParts]

Back before everybody got privacy crazy, I was able to track down the complete sales/ownership history of both my R/T's through my home state. They even sent copies of MSO's. With that information I was able to track down the original owners. Couldn't find any other owners, but did get the original ones. This was circa 1995.

On my R6 car, the guy still lived in the same house with the same phone number. He originally ordered it F8 Green, then changed to R6 Red. He bought it as a supertrak pak to race. He was very successful until someone cut his fuel line and he had an engine fire. He fixed it and traded it in on a RR. Said he regretted it ever since. Once it's restored, I'd like to take it to him and show it.

On my F3 car, the guy had moved but lived in the same area, he invited me to his house and I spent time with his family showing them pictures of the car as I had owned it and talking about the history. He originally wanted a 4spd with a/c. Mopar said  you have to choose, no 440 4spd's get a/c. So, he chose the 4-spd. Very cool.  He chose the 440 because Hemi's were still rare and he was afraid no one could work on it, if it broke down. He chose F3 Green because he liked it. Very nice guy and enjoyed visiting with him.

I was lucky both guys were open to talking. In your case, I'd probably leave the guy alone. Maybe send him a letter requesting some of his time and even offering to pay for it. Something like sending him say $50 via paypal for an hour of his time. That would show your sincerity, but if it's a bad emotional thing, it probably won't work. Keep the offer open and give him multiple ways of contacting you.

Good luck in your resto, sounds like a neat car. How about posting some pics?  

[DAY CLONA]

Personally I don't get or know what the fascination is with knowing a vehicle's history, or history of owners, contacting past owners can open up a can of worms, bring back bad memories of events they may have finally left in the past or perhaps still dwell on?, I've been in the same boat, past or original owners showing up at my door after tracking me/their old car down, to inquire if it''s for sale, or give me their "grief" that I altered the vehicle from it's original self, or looking for one last "joy ride"... last thing I want is to entertain them, or even be bothered period!

A few years ago I bumped into the original owner of my Challenger (friend of my step father) that I bought off him 40 years ago, after exchanging "pleasantries" he joking asked if I still had his old Challenger, I said "yes I do," (he would have cringed if he knew it was still in pristine condition) after that the first words out of his mouth were " That was my first new car, I bought it off the showroom floor, then a few short years later I sold it to you because of my fucking divorce, you knew that right!" the look on his face clearly opened an old wound...

Personally, the only history that matters to me about owning an "old car" is the history you make with it, if you let it go, it's gone, I wouldn't want to be contacted by the latest owner of any of my toys I had to sell....

[Kern Dog]

Another guy that..."bought it new off the showroom floor..."  
Showrooms must have been a revolving door in the 60s and 70s. EVERYONE seems to have bought their car new off the showroom floor.

[lloyd3]

Interesting. I tracked mine back to who I believed was the original owner (all this before 9/11 effectively wrecked the easy opportunity to do so). Sent him a long letter full of questions, which I got back marked "deceased-return to sender".  Oh well.  Mine is coded as an "ordered" car with the strip-delete option checked.  This fellow's address in the Summer of 1968 was just a few blocks away from Offutt Air Force Base, home of the Strategic Air Command.  I suspect it would have been neat to hear that story.  I always speculated that it was ordered by some B-52 bomber jock Air Force Officer (who didn't want the stripe to blow his cover).

[Simonic]

Some interesting stories and opinions here,i've enjoyed reading them all.
My  is,i only bought my present Dodge last year and I've tried for many of the reasons listed above to contact the previous owner,however,the dealer I bought the car off have 'lost' his details,the local DMV refused me a title history as I didn't have 'just cause',i wrote the guy at his address with no luck,tried his phone number(disconnected)even contacted some of the local car clubs to see if anyone knew him....No luck whatsoever.
I've about given up now.......However if anybody is near to Richland MI and would like to do me a favour.........

[Kern Dog]

My car was passed around like a party whore. Lucky for me, it was a 318 car so it wasn't modified. It was mostly original. Two owners back, the guy had it stored for 12 years. The guy I dealt with had 2 cars but could only keep one. He chose a Mercury Cougar to keep. LUCKY for me!

[Bad B-rad]

I also love these stories!!!
Kern Dog, the guy given the choice between the two, choice to keep the COUGAR!!!!!
HOLY CRAP, you are a lucky man!!!!!
I hope you bought a lotto ticket that day, DANG!!!!!!

[DAY CLONA]

Another guy that..."bought it new off the showroom floor..."  
Showrooms must have been a revolving door in the 60s and 70s. EVERYONE seems to have bought their car new off the showroom floor.

There are individuals who insist that the model on the showroom floor was the one they wanted, my step Father was one of those, he payed cash, never financed (never needed to) he always preferred the showroom models, as that was the one that was usually optioned out/ordered by the dealer for promotion, or may have been customized in some way by the dealer, I remember him walking on deals many times when he was refused the showroom display vehicle, he would never look at dealer stock on the lot, he either ordered it, or if he saw something on the showroom floor he bought it...


On another note, my Uncle owned an AMC dealership from the late 50's up to the early 80's, I spent some time there during the late 60's into the mid 70's, high end luxury models and performance models were the only thing on the showroom floor, the buyers with cash walked into the showroom to make a purchase and these vehicles were aimed at that kind of buyer, the folks that needed financing, or talk trade and turkey, milled about the lot looking at the grocery getters waiting for a salesman

[Sixt8Chrgr]

Personally I don't get or know what the fascination is with knowing a vehicle's history, or history of owners, contacting past owners can open up a can of worms, bring back bad memories of events they may have finally left in the past or perhaps still dwell on?, I've been in the same boat, past or original owners showing up at my door after tracking me/their old car down, to inquire if it''s for sale, or give me their "grief" that I altered the vehicle from it's original self, or looking for one last "joy ride"... last thing I want is to entertain them, or even be bothered period!

A few years ago I bumped into the original owner of my Challenger (friend of my step father) that I bought off him 40 years ago, after exchanging "pleasantries" he joking asked if I still had his old Challenger, I said "yes I do," (he would have cringed if he knew it was still in pristine condition) after that the first words out of his mouth were " That was my first new car, I bought it off the showroom floor, then a few short years later I sold it to you because of my fucking divorce, you knew that right!" the look on his face clearly opened an old wound...

Personally, the only history that matters to me about owning an "old car" is the history you make with it, if you let it go, it's gone, I wouldn't want to be contacted by the latest owner of any of my toys I had to sell....

I am 100% the opposite. I like to know the history of all my cars. Usually cool stories come along with the old car. Different strokes for different folks.

[71 SE3834V]

Another guy that..."bought it new off the showroom floor..." 
Showrooms must have been a revolving door in the 60s and 70s. EVERYONE seems to have bought their car new off the showroom floor.

I got the same story back in '79 when I bought a '64 Olds Cutlass. Wasn't highly optioned as the only options I can think of are 330c.i 4bbl high compression engine, ps, pb, bucket seats and yellow w/black top paint scheme.

[71 SE3834V]

I bought my car from a friend's mother. His father had brought the car up from Tennessee to Michigan for him to drive in high school. He went off to college, the car got put in the garage and there it sat for some 20 years until I found out about it! He said "I never knew if my father might have won it gambling as he played in some high stakes poker games."
Sadly his father is no longer with us so that info is lost forever. That would sure be a story!