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Author Topic: New 440 build  (Read 1074 times)
Dreamcar
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« on: June 01, 2018, 06:48:22 PM »

Got my engine built  icon_smile_big After discussing my needs with the builder, his goal was good torque, reliability, and good vacuum. Absolutely nothing fancy just solid power without breaking the bank.

Once in the car, I'd like to get proper headers and I'm thinking of the Holley Sniper EFI system.

However, using the shop headers (which according to the builder left 15-20 HP and TQ on the table because they too big for my application) and the 750 cfm shop carb, and after diagnosing and fixing an ignition problem which shorten the time left for fine tuning, here the numbers and specs:

446.8 HP @ 5100
505.9 TQ @ 4000

Compression test was performed and every cylinder shows 180-185 psi, 13.5-14" idle vacuum.

68 440 block 4.380" bore
KB 237, 9.7 compression
3.750 forged steel crank OEM
LY forged rods w/ARP bolts
Lunati 10230703 camshaft
Melling double roller 3 bolt t-chain
'452 cylinder heads 2.08/1.74 valves 243-245 CFM @ 28" h2o
Roto-blasted stock stamped rockers
Holler Street Dominator intake manifold

I'd like to try and get more out of if later on, but for now I'm happy. My car is not ready for the road yet anyway.


* graph452.jpg (133.5 KB, 584x778 - viewed 393 times.)
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"And another thing, when I gun the motor, I want people to think the world is coming to an end." - Homer Simpson

1969 Charger, 383, Q5/V1W, A35, H51, N88,  numbers match (under restoration)
c00nhunterjoe
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2018, 04:57:36 AM »

You might be able to get a little more out of it. But the cam is pretty tame, however the heads are probably holding it back more. What lift number was that flow at? What did they flow at .500? Either way, you have a nice flat torque curve that starts nust under 50p ft lbs at 3500 rpm.... will be alot of fun for a mild build.
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Dreamcar
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2018, 05:55:12 AM »

Here's the data


* IMG_20180504_142651734.jpg (229.03 KB, 1560x2080 - viewed 356 times.)
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"And another thing, when I gun the motor, I want people to think the world is coming to an end." - Homer Simpson

1969 Charger, 383, Q5/V1W, A35, H51, N88,  numbers match (under restoration)
PRH
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2018, 07:56:11 AM »

Numbers look good for that build.

Iím surprised you didnít start the pull lower..... and take it past 5100.
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Porter Racing Heads......Building and racing Mopars since 1980
Challenger340
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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2018, 08:12:31 AM »

 The Dyno/EGT Headers we use are typically a little BIG for the milder builds as well, so yes I agree smaller Headers would benefit the numbers.

Cam/Heads are all done at 5,100 rpm.
You could play/tune a bit potentially slightly higher rpm, but IMO not much(if anything at all) would be gained.   
You will see a slight loss in Pwr/Trq going going to the Holley Sniper F.I. System from the Carb, but the smaller Headers as installed in the Car should cover back up.

Nice build, good results, I think you will be quite surprised how much faster it will feel "seat of the pants" in the Car than the numbers would suggest !         
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firefighter3931
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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2018, 09:45:30 AM »

Nice build, good results, I think you will be quite surprised how much faster it will feel "seat of the pants" in the Car than the numbers would suggest !         

 iagree That is a very nice street build !  2thumbs

As Bob stated you will be pleasantly surprised at how well this combo will perform in the car with 3.23 gears. On a heavy street car type build the big flat torque curve is what you're looking for.   yesnod

Cudos to Jesse for building you a nice engine  2thumbs



Ron


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Dreamcar
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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2018, 11:29:54 AM »

Nice build, good results, I think you will be quite surprised how much faster it will feel "seat of the pants" in the Car than the numbers would suggest !         

 iagree That is a very nice street build !  2thumbs

As Bob stated you will be pleasantly surprised at how well this combo will perform in the car with 3.23 gears. On a heavy street car type build the big flat torque curve is what you're looking for.   yesnod

Cudos to Jesse for building you a nice engine  2thumbs



Ron




Thanks for your help too Ron!
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"And another thing, when I gun the motor, I want people to think the world is coming to an end." - Homer Simpson

1969 Charger, 383, Q5/V1W, A35, H51, N88,  numbers match (under restoration)
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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2018, 06:05:06 PM »

..... and take it past 5100.

I agree.  If you take it to the track and test shift points, my money says 5500 will give the best et, if the valve train stays compliant.
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500" NA, Eddy head, pump gas, exhaust manifold with 2 1/2 exhaust with tailpipes
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c00nhunterjoe
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« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2018, 08:05:29 PM »

..... and take it past 5100.

I agree.  If you take it to the track and test shift points, my money says 5500 will give the best et, if the valve train stays compliant.

Cam isnt that stout. Unless the lifter bores were really shot, it should be fine past 55. With that nice flat curve it has, 5500 or a little more will make the shift recovery sit right in the peak still. Should be alot of fun.
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BSB67
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« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2018, 08:39:08 PM »

..... and take it past 5100.

I agree.  If you take it to the track and test shift points, my money says 5500 will give the best et, if the valve train stays compliant.

Cam isnt that stout. Unless the lifter bores were really shot, it should be fine past 55. With that nice flat curve it has, 5500 or a little more will make the shift recovery sit right in the peak still. Should be alot of fun.

I had a slightly smaller cam in my 440 than the OP's 703.  Shifted at 5500.  Anything less and the et and mph started backing up a lot.  And yes, its the shift recovery.   Simple area under the curve.
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500" NA, Eddy head, pump gas, exhaust manifold with 2 1/2 exhaust with tailpipes
4150 lbs with driver, 3.23 gear, stock converter
11.68 @ 120.2 mph
c00nhunterjoe
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« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2018, 09:14:46 PM »

..... and take it past 5100.

I agree.  If you take it to the track and test shift points, my money says 5500 will give the best et, if the valve train stays compliant.

Cam isnt that stout. Unless the lifter bores were really shot, it should be fine past 55. With that nice flat curve it has, 5500 or a little more will make the shift recovery sit right in the peak still. Should be alot of fun.

I had a slightly smaller cam in my 440 than the OP's 703.  Shifted at 5500.  Anything less and the et and mph started backing up a lot.  And yes, its the shift recovery.   Simple area under the curve.

 drive
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Dreamcar
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2018, 01:08:45 PM »

Here's the video:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=vBUHgw9u0gw
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"And another thing, when I gun the motor, I want people to think the world is coming to an end." - Homer Simpson

1969 Charger, 383, Q5/V1W, A35, H51, N88,  numbers match (under restoration)
PRH
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« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2018, 04:09:33 PM »

When I test a motor with a hyd cam, I like to find the point where the valve train gets unhappy...... or verify the motor will rev high enough that some other component is the weak link in the upper rpm capability.

Iíve driven cars where I knew(from testing the motor on the dyno) the valve train was unhappy several hundred rpm before you could tell from the drivers seat things were getting abused.

I feel knowing the limits of the valvetrain is very useful for deciding where to set the rev limiter, especially with hyd lifters.


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« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2018, 04:30:20 PM »

I don't remember it being this way "in the old days", or certainly not as prevalent and such low rpms. shruggy  Am I mistaken?  I've rationalized that it is a combination of "faster ramps" more spring pressure for the faster ramps, and hydraulic lifter quality control/tolerances.
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500" NA, Eddy head, pump gas, exhaust manifold with 2 1/2 exhaust with tailpipes
4150 lbs with driver, 3.23 gear, stock converter
11.68 @ 120.2 mph
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