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Author Topic: Superbird RM23U0A175587 now has a fake fender tag?  (Read 2534 times)
tan top
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« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2018, 01:46:07 PM »

 popcrn


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Aero426
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« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2018, 02:27:43 PM »

It is sad.

Faking fender tags & any other documentation lowers the monetary value of any car.

One fake item can bring the rest of the numbers into question - If one item was faked, was anything else faked?

It is a great way to make potential buyers run away, wallet intact.

Not to mention that the seller has offered various Superbirds through the years.    Calls into question his integrity.   
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Alaskan_TA
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« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2018, 03:43:46 PM »

Some people could have Integrity tap them on the shoulder & they would never recognize it for what it was.   Cry
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charger chris
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« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2018, 04:56:33 PM »

And this is why I don't have a fender tag made for my 70 charger r/t. I'll just deal with it and hope my fender tag comes back to my car.
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i am a fair person and up frount person and try to help if i can. i love my mopars thats. all i ever owned first car was my 69 charger at the age of 15.

1969 charger Daytona clone
1969 charger sadly stolen
1970 charger rt
1972 road runner clone
Redbird
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« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2018, 05:17:25 PM »

How many Superbirds has the seller listed, and how were they equipped?
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hemi-hampton
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« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2018, 05:41:25 PM »

He's got others cars for sale, SS454 Chevelles that are really 307 Malibu's. I'm sure he'd sell you a Temptest or Lemans as a GTO. Scammer.
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DAY CLONA
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« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2018, 06:12:59 PM »

He's got others cars for sale, SS454 Chevelles that are really 307 Malibu's. I'm sure he'd sell you a Temptest or Lemans as a GTO. Scammer.



Uhhh, just devastating! has anyone contacted the League of Justice?, I know they're busy fighting real grease and grime, but surely someone can stop this nefarious villain, OR maybe you guys can form your own group of Super Zeroes that can rescue these horrific automotive tragedies by pooling your resour$e$, and return them back to their former glory of numbers matching, correct VIN/
/fender/data tags, broadcast sheets, paint daubs, column shifters, six cylinders, drum brakes, god awful drab factory colors, and anything else violated?....just a thought
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wingcarenvy
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« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2018, 09:38:42 PM »

He's got others cars for sale, SS454 Chevelles that are really 307 Malibu's. I'm sure he'd sell you a Temptest or Lemans as a GTO. Scammer.



Uhhh, just devastating! has anyone contacted the League of Justice?, I know they're busy fighting real grease and grime, but surely someone can stop this nefarious villain, OR maybe you guys can form your own group of Super Zeroes that can rescue these horrific automotive tragedies by pooling your resour$e$, and return them back to their former glory of numbers matching, correct VIN/
/fender/data tags, broadcast sheets, paint daubs, column shifters, six cylinders, drum brakes, god awful drab factory colors, and anything else violated?....just a thought

I for one think fake fender tags should be a crime but your right, some one with more dollars than sense will buy this Superbird and never know that it has a fake fender tag. The folks here keeping track of them are doing the real enthusiasts a real favor. Since your so high and mighty about fakes being just as good as originals, I have a Mona Lisa over here that I painted yesterday I could sell you for a deal.
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DAY CLONA
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« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2018, 11:01:03 PM »

He's got others cars for sale, SS454 Chevelles that are really 307 Malibu's. I'm sure he'd sell you a Temptest or Lemans as a GTO. Scammer.



Uhhh, just devastating! has anyone contacted the League of Justice?, I know they're busy fighting real grease and grime, but surely someone can stop this nefarious villain, OR maybe you guys can form your own group of Super Zeroes that can rescue these horrific automotive tragedies by pooling your resour$e$, and return them back to their former glory of numbers matching, correct VIN/
/fender/data tags, broadcast sheets, paint daubs, column shifters, six cylinders, drum brakes, god awful drab factory colors, and anything else violated?....just a thought

I for one think fake fender tags should be a crime but your right, some one with more dollars than sense will buy this Superbird and never know that it has a fake fender tag. The folks here keeping track of them are doing the real enthusiasts a real favor. Since your so high and mighty about fakes being just as good as originals, I have a Mona Lisa over here that I painted yesterday I could sell you for a deal.


Speaking of "Mona's" (pun intended) sometimes so called "fakes" are better than the so called "real deal", these were painted in DiVinci's studio at the same time, which one's "real"?, were they painted by the same hand?, are they one and the same?

Much like the Superbird in disscusion, the "improved" version is so much better...


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alfaitalia
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« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2018, 01:07:32 AM »

He's got others cars for sale, SS454 Chevelles that are really 307 Malibu's. I'm sure he'd sell you a Temptest or Lemans as a GTO. Scammer.



Uhhh, just devastating! has anyone contacted the League of Justice?, I know they're busy fighting real grease and grime, but surely someone can stop this nefarious villain, OR maybe you guys can form your own group of Super Zeroes that can rescue these horrific automotive tragedies by pooling your resour$e$, and return them back to their former glory of numbers matching, correct VIN/
/fender/data tags, broadcast sheets, paint daubs, column shifters, six cylinders, drum brakes, god awful drab factory colors, and anything else violated?....just a thought

Lol......but entirely missing the point. Sure do what you want to your own cars.....and your clones are cool. My car could never be stock again as I have no records of how it was built and factory looking cars, cool as they are, are not for me. No ones saying he should put this back to stock...it's a far better colour than white imo and better for being a 4 speeder. But as soon as he (or anyone) trys to sell a fake or clone as something it's not then it's a very different thing. Anyone who thinks it ok to do otherwise has very low ethical standards and is clearly not someone to be trusted...which is why its illegal in most places. I'm amazed is not over there. I wonder how many on this forum have what they believe is a genuine Hemi car or Daytona but it's actually a fake due to people like this seller swapping vins and the like . I certainly don't have enough knowledge to be 100% sure like lots of you guys. In willing to bet that more than a few of you unknowingly have cars that are not the genuine thing that you think they are.
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Dragon Slayer
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« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2018, 08:07:53 AM »

I will say this, he does state it never had an original Fender tag or any paper work, but he has data on the Repop fender tag that came from an original.  Because it is the same data as some of the posted paper work when a more honest owner had the car.  So regardless of how he states his add he is not being truthful in my opinion.  As a dealer he has harmed his reputation, so buyer beware.

As far as color not making a difference in price, that is not true.  They make a big difference in how fast a car sells and for the price.  White cars seem to be the least desireable taking much longer and at much lower price.  Even 6 pack 440 cars.  Last one I watch when I was looking to buy.  Took over a year to sell and was less than $169K.  Not $225K.

Restomod and reproduction is becoming a new norm, like it or not.  It is a shame that it isn't sold with its original tag though. 
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WINGIN IT
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« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2018, 09:26:10 AM »

First off kudos to Barry for bringing this information to the public , and for Aero for providing historical docs showing original options.

Secondly, why are there no pre-resto or resto pics showing car get taken down to show original paint and options?

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FJ5WING
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« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2018, 09:32:58 AM »

While I usually agree with Mike, I think he's off on this one. Making the changes to the car  is one thing and not the end of the world. Once you start altering the factory documentation its a whole other level of wrong and as mentioned brings the sellers honesty into question. He may or may not know of the tag changes but if he's a dealer Im sure he does and will play dumb.
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« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2018, 10:16:27 AM »

Making the changes to the car  is one thing and not the end of the world. Once you start altering the factory documentation its a whole other level of wrong and as mentioned brings the sellers honesty into question.

 iagree
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charger_fan_4ever
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« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2018, 02:14:32 PM »

Yet in his other auction for the 70 ss454 chevelle he clearly states whats been added and its a 100k price tag.
Hmmm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Chevrolet-Chevelle-SUPER-SPORT/352429994916?hash=item520e76f3a4:g:RskAAOSwZVlXsQ2b


SUPER NICE-BRAND NEW 1970 CHEVELLE CONVERTIBLE BUILT WITH SUPER SPORT LS6 OPTIONS WITH THE 454-450 H/P ENGINE,HAS THE TIME PERIOD CORRECT 4-BOLT MAIN 3963512 CASTING BLOCK WITH THE 291 CASTING SQUARE PORT HEADS,M21 MUNCIE FOUR SPEED TRANSMISSION AND 12 BOLT 3:31 POSI TRAC REAR,CAR IS SUPER STRAIT AND IN BRAND NEW CONDITION WITH LESS THAN 25 TEST MILES ON IT,JUST WENT THRU A COMPLETE FRAME OFF GROUND UP ROTISSORIE RESTORATION,EVERYTHING BRAND NEW,HAS POWER TOP,POWER DISC BRAKES AND POWER STEERING,TILT WHEEL,WILL LIST MORE DETAILED INFO BELOW,HAVE SEVERAL PICTURES I CAN EMAIL OF ANY CERTAIN AREA,

NOTE-PLEASE READ- JUST TO BE A LITTLE MORE CLEAR THE SUPER SPORT OPTION AND THE LS6 ENGINE OPTION WITH 4-SPEED 12 BOLT REAR HAS BEEN ADDED TO THIS CAR DURING RESTORATION.
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Alaskan_TA
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« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2018, 02:49:34 PM »

The great bonus to the whole Mopar community when these types of threads are posted is that the people who think faking documentation is OK feel compelled to identify themselves.

God Bless America.  2thumbs
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mopargem
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« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2018, 04:07:00 PM »

How many Superbirds has the seller listed, and how were they equipped?

I remember this one a couple years ago. It seemed like a good price.


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hemi-hampton
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« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2018, 05:44:03 PM »

What some of you failed to notice is his descriptions on his cars have recently been revised after his ethics & morals were called into question. He was originally trying to play dumb until he got caught. He could have changed the 5th digit vin # to reflect a Hemi Car & have opening price at $500,000 & some people in here would think that is fine & all legit. shruggy slap
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Alaskan_TA
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« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2018, 06:03:11 PM »

tan top captured the listing above.

The text HAS changed, I wonder why?  shruggy

Quote
SUPER NICE-BRAND NEW 1970 PLYMOUTH SUPERBIRD WITH THE 440-375 H/P ENGINE,HEMI SPLINE FOUR SPEED TRANSMISSION AND DANA 60 4:10 POSI TRAC REAR,CAR IS SUPER STRAIT AND IN BRAND NEW CONDITION WITH LESS THAN 25 TEST MILES ON IT,JUST WENT THRU A COMPLETE FRAME OFF GROUND UP ROTISSORIE RESTORATION,EVERYTHING BRAND NEW,HAS POWER DISC BRAKES AND POWER STEERING,WILL LIST MORE DETAILED INFO BELOW,HAVE SEVERAL PICTURES I CAN EMAIL OF ANY CERTAIN AREA,

IMPORTANT INFO-PLEASE READ-

JUST TO BE A LITTLE MORE CLEAR ON THE HISTORY OF THIS CAR,

THERE IS NO BROADCAST SHEET,WINDOW STICKER OR ANY OTHER FACTORY ORIGINAL PAPER WORK FOR THIS CAR,THERE WAS NO ORIGINAL FENDER TAG WITH THE SECONDARY INSPECTION STAMP FOR THE CAR AND THE ONE SHOWN IN THE PICTURES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AS A REPOP TAG FOR COSMETIC OR SHOW PURPOSE ONLY NOT INTENDED AS PROOF OF HOW THIS CAR WAS BORN AS FAR AS COLOR COMBINATION OR TRANSMISSION,

IN MY OPINION THERE IS NO WAY ANYBODY CAN SAY HOW THIS CAR WAS BORN WITHOUT ANY OF THE ABOVE MENTIONED ITEMS,I KNOW EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT IT AND FORMING THERE OPINION ON THE CHARGER FORUM BUT NONE OF THEM CAN PROVIDE ANY FACTORY ORIGINAL PAPERS TO PROVE THERE OPINIONS EITHER,SOME ARE SAYING THAT IT WAS A ALPINE WHITE CAR WHITE INTERIOR CONSOLE AUTOMATIC WHICH IF TRUE WOULD BE A VERY RARE CAR VERY FEW BUILT WHITE ON WHITE,

ANYHOW WITHOUT ANY ORIGINAL PAPER WORK FOR THE CAR I THOUGHT IT DIDNT REALLY MATTER WHAT COLOR IT IS NOW OR WHAT TRANSMISSION IT HAS IN IT ITS STILL A SUPERBIRD AND THE VIN IS IN THE NASCAR RACE PROGRAM SERIAL NUMBER LIST,

HOPE THIS HELPS AND CLEARS UP ANY CONFUSSION OR DOUBT AND TO VERIFY THAT MY INTENSIONS WAS NOT TO MIS LEAD ANYONE OR TRYING TO UP THE VALUE OF THE CAR.

MORE DETAILS AND SPECS-

NUMBERS MATCHING ENGINE

NEW GOODYEAR REPRODUCTION POLYGLASS TIRES

TAC,CLOCK,SPEEDO AND ALL GAUGES NEW.OEM BRAND

BUCKET SEAT/FOUR SPEED WITH CONSOLE

COMPLETE NEW WIRING HARNESS FRONT TO BACK WITH ALL NEW SWITCHES-THRU OUT

HEAT BOX REBUILT WITH NEW FAN MOTOR,HEATER CORE AND SEALS

VAPOR BARRIOR BEHIND DOOR PANELS

NEW FUEL LINES,TANK,STRAPS AND NEW SENDING UNIT

COMPLETE NEW ORIGINAL STYLE GARDNER EXHAUST SYSTEM WITH ORIGINAL STYLE CLAMPS,HANGERS,PIPES,MUFFLERS AND TIPS 

ALL NEW FRONT SUSPENSION INCLUDING BALL JOINTS

ALL POWER STEERING COMPONENTS ARE NEW OR REBUILT

COMPLETLY NEW OR REBUILT POWER DISC/DRUM BRAKE SYSTEM WITH CORRECT VALVES

TRUNK COMPLETE WITH SPARE TIRE AND BOTH JACK ASSEMBLIES PRESENT

SEATS COMPLETLY RESTORED WITH NEW FOAM,PADDING,BURLAP AND LEGONDARY COVERS

WIPER MOTOR PROFESSIONALY RESTORED

-WILL ADD MORE INFO LATER- - - EVERYTHING IS BRAND NEW OR RESTORED-


ALSO HAVE A 69 1/2 A12 SUPER BEE AND A 70 CHEVELLE 454 4-SPEED AVAILABLE FOR SALE.


ALSO CHECK OUT MY OTHER AUCTIONS,HAVE SEVERAL OTHER MOPARS AND BOWTIES AVAILABLE FOR SALE AND COMING SOON TO EBAY INCLUDING ROTTISSORIE RESTORED CARS AND LIKE WITH ALL OF THESE OLD CARS THIS CAR IS BEING SOLD AS IS WHERE IS WITH NO WARRANTY OR GAURANTEES OF ANY KIND WHAT SO EVER,FEEL FREE TO EMAIL ANY QUESTIONS OR CALL HANK AT 843-455-3264 MONDAY THRU SATURDAY,AND LIKE ALWAYS I TRY TO SALE ONLY TOP QUALITY CARS AND HAVE DESCRIBED THE CARS DESCRIPTION TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE,CAR IS AVAILABLE FOR INSPECTION ANYTIME BEFORE END OF AUCTION,SERIOUS BIDDERS AND BUYERS ONLY PLEASE,FULL PAYMENT OF DEPOSIT DUE WITHIN 3 DAYS OF END OF AUCTION,WILL LISTEN TO ALL OFFERS,ALSO IF YOU ARE NEW TO EBAY OR HAVE A ZERO OR NEGITIVE FEEDBACK PLEASE CALL BEFORE BIDDING OR BUYING,

SORRY NO TRADES AT THIS TIME,THANKS HANK,
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Alaskan_TA
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Drinking and driving is really, really stupid.


« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2018, 06:06:48 PM »

Odd that the fake tag could be the same as the EW1 / D32 tag EXCEPT for two details since
Quote
THERE WAS NO ORIGINAL FENDER TAG
  ?
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Birdflu
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« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2018, 07:53:18 PM »

Interesting read...it is what it is. 

Just curious, how in the heck does somebody come up with what appears to be the correct vehicle order number out of thin air when the original tag doesn't exist?  popcrn
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hemi-hampton
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« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2018, 08:18:49 PM »

" The text HAS changed, I wonder why?  "


I just told you why in my post above shruggy
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Stevetona
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« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2018, 09:35:30 PM »

" The text HAS changed, I wonder why?  "


I just told you why in my post above shruggy

I think he was being sarcastic.  brickwall
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Redbird
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« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2018, 10:48:40 PM »

THERE IS NO BROADCAST SHEET,WINDOW STICKER OR ANY OTHER FACTORY ORIGINAL PAPER WORK FOR THIS CAR,THERE WAS NO ORIGINAL FENDER TAG WITH THE SECONDARY INSPECTION STAMP FOR THE CAR AND THE ONE SHOWN IN THE PICTURES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AS A REPOP TAG FOR COSMETIC OR SHOW PURPOSE ONLY NOT INTENDED AS PROOF OF HOW THIS CAR WAS BORN AS FAR AS COLOR COMBINATION OR TRANSMISSION,

IN MY OPINION THERE IS NO WAY ANYBODY CAN SAY HOW THIS CAR WAS BORN WITHOUT ANY OF THE ABOVE MENTIONED ITEMS,I KNOW EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT IT AND FORMING THERE OPINION ON THE CHARGER FORUM BUT NONE OF THEM CAN PROVIDE ANY FACTORY ORIGINAL PAPERS TO PROVE THERE OPINIONS EITHER,SOME ARE SAYING THAT IT WAS A ALPINE WHITE CAR WHITE INTERIOR CONSOLE AUTOMATIC WHICH IF TRUE WOULD BE A VERY RARE CAR VERY FEW BUILT WHITE ON WHITE,

ANYHOW WITHOUT ANY ORIGINAL PAPER WORK FOR THE CAR I THOUGHT IT DIDNT REALLY MATTER WHAT COLOR IT IS NOW OR WHAT TRANSMISSION IT HAS IN IT ITS STILL A SUPERBIRD AND THE VIN IS IN THE NASCAR RACE PROGRAM SERIAL NUMBER LIST,

HOPE THIS HELPS AND CLEARS UP ANY CONFUSSION OR DOUBT AND TO VERIFY THAT MY INTENSIONS WAS NOT TO MIS LEAD ANYONE OR TRYING TO UP THE VALUE OF THE CAR.


So now is the listing saying that it could have originally been a Black Bucket, or Bench, interior; Black steering wheel; no pedal dress up; no tach; with 14" Magnum 500's & 70 series tires; and of undetermined original exterior color too? I tried to read the listing, maybe I just don't understand?
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Davtona
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« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2018, 04:43:20 AM »


But as soon as he (or anyone) trys to sell a fake or clone as something it's not then it's a very different thing. Anyone who thinks it ok to do otherwise has very low ethical standards and is clearly not someone to be trusted...which is why its illegal in most places. 


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