727 wont kickdown

[euroZ06]

Hi,

68 charger, 383. Car never kickeddowned since ive owned it, and it had original linkeage. When my throttle cable ripped, i bought lokar kit for both throttle cable and tranny. Car was just in a shop (that has done adjustments like this before). All is set correctly per shop, at full throttle the kickdown lever on the tranny is fully back. Car still shifts at regular rpm's, and kickdown wont work. Shifts into first at the light. Can shift manually.

Please advise.

[John_Kunkel]

Has anybody checked to see if WOT at the pedal is WOT under the hood? IOW, with somebody holding the pedal to the floor, can the carb be pushed further open from under the hood?

I won't go into my standard rant about the Lokar kickdown.

[euroZ06]

Has anybody checked to see if WOT at the pedal is WOT under the hood? IOW, with somebody holding the pedal to the floor, can the carb be pushed further open from under the hood?

I won't go into my standard rant about the Lokar kickdown.

Yes, the shop did the full adjustment (it wasnt wot before). Pedal to the floor, the carb is fully open, and the kickdown lever is all the way back (and does have tension if i were to just push on it).

[John_Kunkel]

I don't trust the Lokar, crawl under the car and see if the transmission lever is actually full back at WOT i.e. pull the lever aft by hand.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Verdict?

[euroZ06]

The lever is all the way back at full throttle.

I was told that perhaps it has a manual valve there, but im not sure how to figure that out...

[c00nhunterjoe]

If you put it in drive amd it shifts, its not a manual vb.

[69wannabe]

Had the same problem on my buddy's charger, I installed the bouchillion TV cable kit and got it on the car and got it all adjusted out according the the instructions and it wouldn't kick down. Something must be wrong on the inside of the transmission but i'm no transmission tech so he was supposed to have it checked out but I don't think he ever done anything about it.

[euroZ06]

The shift point does change if i were to adjust it. So there is that...

Is doing an oil change/filter change a culprit?

[c00nhunterjoe]

If it is shifting in drive then its not a manual valve body. If you are adjusting the cable to move shift points, then the lever is not in the full back position, thus your culprit.

[John_Kunkel]

The lever is all the way back at full throttle.

You actually crawled under the car and verified that by having someone sit in the car, floor the throttle and then tried to move the trans lever further back by hand from under the car?

[euroZ06]

The lever is all the way back at full throttle.

You actually crawled under the car and verified that by having someone sit in the car, floor the throttle and then tried to move the trans lever further back by hand from under the car?

I have not, but i was very specific to the shop that it needs to be this way and they assured me that it was.

Perhaps i should double check it.

[John_Kunkel]

Perhaps you should.

[mopar0166]

 

[mopar0166]

Why is there a big difference between the lokar and  bouchillion TV cable kit.   I'm guessing how it mounts on the carb etc. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

Why is there a big difference between the lokar and  bouchillion TV cable kit.   I'm guessing how it mounts on the carb etc. 

Lokar is universal. Bouchillion is more of a copy of the modern day production cables with brackets to adapt to carb setups. 

[mopar0166]

I get how it can be universal but on the same hand if its doing it job why would something else be needed?  Isn't it just a different design for the same type of action to control the throttle level on the transmission?  and if it has to be that exact why are we moving away from the stock setup at all?

[c00nhunterjoe]

Isn't it just a different design for the same type of action to control the throttle level on the transmission?  and if it had to be that exact why are we moving away from the stock setup at all?

Exactly why its not a good product.

[HeavyFuel]

I'll resurrect this topic.

JK...I need some advice.  I have no kickdown at WOT or any other time, but besides kickdown, the transmission seems to shift up and down normally at expected RPMs.

First things first.  Carb is wide open when pedal is down.  All linkage is original, in good condition, and is adjusted exactly according to the SM, double checked everything.

The lever on the trans still has some distance to go rear-ward from it's position when at WOT.  See the photo.  I'm illustrating it this way in order to demonstrate the amount of travel remaining on trans lever....seemed easier than trying to grab pics somehow under the car.

So John, is the amount of travel remaining before the trans lever is full back too much, in your opinion?  If so, should I adjust the top rod a couple turns longer, or should I split the adjusting between the top rod and the vertical rod by the firewall?

[c00nhunterjoe]

The amount of remaining travel you have shown by that gap is most likely the culprit. Wot on the carb needs to be full back on the kickdown lever or it will not kickdown. I have found that even after following the fsm to a T, some minor tweeks are still needed to perfect it due to production variances and even the occasional rod that got stepped on and bent over the years. Get rid of the gap and test drive it.

[John_Kunkel]

The trans lever DOES NOT have to be full back at WOT to achieve kickdown but close to full back. How close can only be determined by adjusting the top rod longer and see what happens. A couple of turns might do the trick and not affect the part-throttle shift speeds that much.

Also, be aware that there is a road speed limit at which the trans will kick down at WOT.

[HeavyFuel]

Thanks for the advice, guys.  I'll give it a try.

I've been trying get it to kick down while traveling about 60 mph....yeah, you wouldn't want her dropping down to second going like 80.    

Hmmm. Maybe 60 is even too fast?   

[John_Kunkel]

60 mph is the target speed where kickdown is disabled but this varies with axle ratio and governor....can be as high as 85 mph for the Hemi.,

[HeavyFuel]

Reporting back with results.

I adjusted vertical rod according to the SM, and then the top rod so the trans lever was full back, and the top rod slot had just a tiny bit of gap....I'd say probably a 1/16th.

Well, she downshifts now....and the shift points during normal driving have changed significantly.  I used to be in 3rd gear by probably 10-15 mph.

1-2 is at about 15 mph, and 2-3 is at about 25 mph.  You can actually FEEL the Transgo shift kit that was installed years ago.  The engine and whole drivetrain seems like its working less hard now to do the same job.  The harmonic noise in the cabin seems to have subsided a little, probably due to the engine not lugging as much.


So, it all seems positive.  Hope the engine/trans didn't get hurt too much over the last 10k miles by setting the kickdown linkage according to the SM.  Kinda pisses me off that the instructions are that far off.  I get that the geometry between the rods and levers and carb linkage travel and what not has to be a certain way.....but FFS, the shift points and downshifting should have been emphasized more.

Plus, that goofy 50 year old service video on youtube that shows how to properly set the linkage practically forbids you from doing it any other way, and warning of dire consequences if process is deviated from.  

Anyway....seems to be functioning well now....so I'm happy about that.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Sounds good. Dont worry about damage, it will be fine.