Sad. But our old cars are going to mean nothing.

[Ponch ®]

If I'm ever in situation where I'm competing for and/or losing out on a job to a person that, in the average, doesn't speak english, has a a 3rd grade education, and is unfamiliar with our society - then I'm gonna ask myself where I f--cked up that badly.
 

If an employer can replace me with 5 Hispanics for the same money and get the equivalent of twice the work that I do in the same day, it is very tempting.

Its called basic economics of capitalism and competition. If someone is willing to do a job for x amount, then thats what the job is worth. So if you can be replaced by 5 guys for the same money, youve been getting overpaid 5x and freeloading off of your employer all along. Anything else, like fines, is government manipulation of the market through artificially high wages. You know, like they do in China and Venezuela. Expecting to be paid more based on some arbitrary attribute (like "well Im an American, I should get more $") instead of the actual value of your labor is a form of entitlement - again, not unlike a burger flipper expecting to be $20 an hour bc they 'deserve' it.

Im not getting replaced in my job by 5 illegals anytime soon bc it doesnt involve mindless manual labor. But yeah, Im the ignorant one.  

[Kern Dog]

Yeah, still as "iggnent" as always.

[Mopar Nut]

I am thinking about selling 4 out of the 6 cars I own.

Watcha got ? 

   

[Birdflu]

Anyway, Back to the TOPIC.
I am thinking about selling 4 out of the 6 cars I own.  I just don't think I can handle the onslaught of insults everyone gives a seller.
Thinking about a auction. 35 year old collection.  Yes I live in Kansas and No they ain't in no barn.  Stored inside an airtight real Garage.

I have NEVER insulted someone through a PM...I promise! 

[ACUDANUT]

Anyway, Back to the TOPIC.
I am thinking about selling 4 out of the 6 cars I own.  I just don't think I can handle the onslaught of insults everyone gives a seller.
Thinking about a auction. 35 year old collection.  Yes I live in Kansas and No they ain't in no barn.  Stored inside an airtight real Garage.

I have NEVER insulted someone through a PM...I promise!  

70 Charger, 71 Cuda, 71 Challenger vert, 3 rallye Chargers.. All big block cars. No Hemi's.
SEE, no one wants them.

[73rallye440magnum]

ACUDANUT, are any of the Rallye Chargers 4 speed? Projects? Feel free to PM me.

[garner7555]

Anyway, Back to the TOPIC.
I am thinking about selling 4 out of the 6 cars I own.  I just don't think I can handle the onslaught of insults everyone gives a seller.
Thinking about a auction. 35 year old collection.  Yes I live in Kansas and No they ain't in no barn.  Stored inside an airtight real Garage.

I have NEVER insulted someone through a PM...I promise!  

70 Charger, 71 Cuda, 71 Challenger vert, 3 rallye Chargers.. All big block cars. No Hemi's.
SEE, no one wants them.

Could we have prices to go along with each car?      And what color combo, engine, trans they are?
(even if I think a price is too high I don't say that to the seller, I do make an offer sometimes but I say " I'm not saying your car isn't worth what your asking because I don't know, but I would be willing to give X for it.  If your interested then just let me know and thanks for your time.)

My point in telling you that is that you don't have to put up with buyers like that.   Those are great cars and will have plenty of interest.          

[ACUDANUT]

The only 4 speed is the 70 Charger with 4.11 rear end gears. It also has every option available. (down side..it has a 68 complete black interior, including dash)
A/C has been removed.

[moparstuart]

The only 4 speed is the 70 Charger with 4.11 rear end gears. It also has every option available. (down side..it has a 68 complete black interior, including dash)
A/C has been removed.

sorry to here your liquidating 

[odcics2]

The only 4 speed is the 70 Charger with 4.11 rear end gears. It also has every option available. (down side..it has a 68 complete black interior, including dash)
A/C has been removed.

sorry to here your liquidating 

After reading this thread, sounds like a great idea...   

[chargerperson]

I hate to admit this, but in 30 years there will only be a few people left, and the collections will all be up for action or sold to people at a very low price. My Dad is 84, has Alzheimer's, we had to get rid of his collection of 50"s and 60's cars, and they were only worth half of their value of just 15 years ago. I watch the auctions and beautiful cars from the 50"s are rolling through at half of what it cost to build them. I don't think the Muscle cars are going to disappear, and they will be the last hold outs of all the collector cars. There will be a peak and then it will fall off - and level out lower. It's the facts of the market - supply and demand - and the demand will be limited to a very few 30 years from now. Anyone ever look at the cost of a Model T? - dirt.  

My HEMI Daytona clone 30 years from now will most likely be worth 30-40K; I will be 85. Most of those on this board will be dead. You will have a few MOPAR lovers that will have a feast on all the cars available.

Dane

Dane
You have given us a reason to stay healthy and live long - we can buy all the MOPARs from those who die before us!  In 30 years I will be 82 so I'll have a few extra years of estate sales to shop at

[Challenger340]

Anyway, Back to the TOPIC.
I am thinking about selling 4 out of the 6 cars I own.  I just don't think I can handle the onslaught of insults everyone gives a seller.
Thinking about a auction. 35 year old collection.  Yes I live in Kansas and No they ain't in no barn.  Stored inside an airtight real Garage.

I have NEVER insulted someone through a PM...I promise!  

70 Charger, 71 Cuda, 71 Challenger vert, 3 rallye Chargers.. All big block cars. No Hemi's.
SEE, no one wants them.

I am contemplating selling my Charger R/T SE as well, but for no other reason than to acquire something I can "play" with a bit before I'm too old ?

IMO,
something just not "copacetic" in changing things/stuff on an original unmolested #'s R/T SE Car, that survived all these decades still in great shape ?
See ?  Nobody will probably want mine as well !

[ramairthree]

There are a lot of factors at play here.

Every generation has a lust for the cars of their youth.  So there will always be a spike of interest as that generation gets older, and has nostalgia and buying power. 

The muscle car era was succeeded by about two decades of cars with lesser performance.  So another generation or two listed after them.  This gives it a much wider band of interest.

There was something special about that era in many other ways.  A kick ass economy, a huge youthful generation with great job prospects, cars literally sold to the public so they could race them, American know how kicking ass, landing on the moon, and so on.

Also, with regards to the wonderful performance of modern cars, there is often a lack of excitement driving them.  It is so effortless and calm.  You can be going over a hundred in your Challenger with less visceral feel and feedback than doing 55 in your 70.  The other catch is, so many of the parts and electronic components in modern cars are going to mean keeping one running for fifty years is not likely.  They are better quality wise, that is not the issue.  But finding, fabricating, or reproducing something like the wing and nose for a Daytona is child's play compared to, say, sourcing a two year only navigation/infotainment/control system specific to the automatic version of the two year only 2022/2023 AWD Challenger Daytona Demon Snow Leopard edition.

The percentage of people with interest in performance cars may be going down, and their options in modern cars are legion.  But the population is growing.  There is always going to be an interest in the classic muscle car era vehicles.

Some current issues are, the most desireable have been snapped up and turning into investments and are often collector pieces due to value.  They are priced out of the reach of most.  Less valuable versions may still be playthings, but they are still for the affluent.

Most do not have the tools, space, and ability to restore their own cars.  Tons of cars out there will be worth less when restored than it will cost to restore them even if you can do a lot of the work.  Sure, your dad can finally drag his Superbird 440 out of the garage or you can snag a Hemi Charger at a steal from some rural widow, dump 70k into their restorations, and come out ahead.

But you can't with most.  That 74 Charger or Roadrunner with factory hand crank sun roof, fender signals, and four ashtrays is a pretty cool car.  It left the factory with a 318, 904, and peg leg rear end.  Body is in real good shape and it is solid and rust free.  It needs interior, a new engine, tranny rebuild, new rear end, power steering pump, factory 26 inch radiator, new tank and lines, body work, and paint.  Whole AC system, core, etc are missing.  Speedo does not work, wiring is a mess. 
You also save a 71 Challenger that has sat for twenty years. It is all original. It has the original 383 two barrel with 100k running fine but never rebuilt.  It has the original auto tranny that needs a rebuild.  It has some pin hole ruse issue on a fender, needs a rear lower quarter panel, the interior is all there but beat.  You need the roof vinyl and trim, it needs exhaust, tank, lines, etc.

You may get the cars and have them running in Joe dirt mode, but you are not even going to be able to make either a nice driver without going in the hole.

Younger people are not going to do that.  Homes, cars, etc. are all a bigger chunk of the average Amercian income than they used to be, let alone college, medical care, etc.

It is going to be a long time before they are worth a lot.

It is the same with other makes.  You would be hard pressed to get a nice driver, run of the mill GTO together, even numbers matching, for what you put into it.  You need the factory 4 speed RAIV Judge to get ahead.

Plus, for most, new stuff is there status symbol.  The younger affluent guy is going to buy a new Rolex and new GT500 or whatever for the weekend.  The subset of richer guys or more discerning guys that are going to buy a 69 Mach 1 and vintage double red Seadweller is smaller.

My prediction is the next decade or two remain a similar interest and value in the rare, high end collector stuff.  With a lot of fallen off interest in the garden variety cars and ones not worth enough restored to restore.  And some major fire sales in the restomod stuff.  The guy that spent 80k on a tube frame chassis 69 Charger with modern suspension, steering, and drivetrain and sweet interior will be lucky to get 40k for it when he can't drive anymore and his kids will likely sell it for 25k after he dies. 

However, a couple of decades after than, when all the rare and highly desired and nice models are safely enshrined in their collector Garage/museum, there are still going to be people with a desire to have one they can drive and play with.  The driver cars are going to be in higher demand and worth enough to restore, because there won't be a whole lot left.

[ramairthree]

Oh Christ.....Any idiot that thinks that a full time minimum wage job is for an adult needs a kick to the dick. Minimum wage jobs are for idiots, kids starting out or someone that needs a few extra bucks from a second job. If you are 23 years old (Or OLDER) and making minimum wage, you need to stop and look back at where you screwed up, then take steps to improve your condition.
The building trades pay well. Not everyone needs a college degree to make good money.

The ratio of higher-paying jobs to low-wage jobs has dramatically changed from 50 years ago.  The reasons are bigger than any individual living today.  Some of it has been building up for literally centuries.  The average US income isn't enough to live on = a big chunk of Americans will stay in deep financial trouble.  It's just facts & math.  


Sure, let's stress personal responsibility and ambition.  I'm all in favor of that.  But individual ethics alone are not gonna fix all this by itself.  Not even close.  We have to increase the income and/or decrease the cost of living too.  

--  We already earn a shit-ton of money by worldwide standards.  
--  Our living costs are sky-high by worldwide standards (and even compared to our own past).  

Hmm . . .  

I won't argue the shift in types of jobs and issues with the economy.

But the average Amercian family with both mom and dad working likely lives in a home twice the size of their grandparents, with two or more color TVs, a cable bill, an internet bill, smart phones, nice cars, maybe a fishing boat or motorcycle or two, etc. etc.

We have a very high standard of living.

[ramairthree]

Well, as far as the old muscle car popularity is going, It isn't just the young crowd. Go check out a car show. I just went to the drive-in car show and movie. Over 60% of the cars were new. Then I went to the VFW show last weekend. They have more classes for the new cars than the old ones. Over 100 cars there. Classes were for all makes up to 55, 56-69, 70-79 and 80 up. stock and another of the same for modified. Then they had the corvette classes 2 truck classes and the rest of the 26 classes were for new cars. These new cars are owned by people 58 and up. My buddy mike has a 2016 Challenger. He is 59. Terry is 63 with a new mustang. Rows of new Camaros and Corvettes a Hell Cat and 2 Vipers. All turn key. They don't work on them. They just clean them. They walk around the show to see what categories the other cars got into so they know what to list their car in. Again the numbers are over 60% new cars at the show. I see maybe 6 young kids with their rice burners there cleaning and getting ready for the judges. The older group is leaving the old cars behind and buying the new cars. I see the love of the old Muscle cars ending soon.

I would not totally judge interest based on car shows.

The concept of having and driving a car and enjoying it vs spending all day at a car show or in a club is different than it used to be.

Virtually all club type events and participation is falling off.

[Mike DC]

I won't argue the shift in types of jobs and issues with the economy.

But the average Amercian family with both mom and dad working likely lives in a home twice the size of their grandparents, with two or more color TVs, a cable bill, an internet bill, smart phones, nice cars, maybe a fishing boat or motorcycle or two, etc. etc.

We have a very high standard of living.

Home sizes have grown for a list of reasons, some luxury, some not.  The biggest one is that it just doesn't cost much more to build a bigger box.  The smallest home is less profitable for the builder.  (GM & Ford & Mopar would rather lard up a vehicle with extra options than sell a base model.  You can't always buy the base model anymore even if you want one.)

What if you don't want a home that big?  Today the neighborhood of that smaller home is probably not as nice (read: safety & school districts) as it was when the home was new 50-100 years ago.  There is more indirect pressure for people to buy these bigger homes than the data measures.  


TVs?  I agree they are huge.  They are not very expensive anymore, though.  You can buy a big flat TV for $200.  If the market was still filled with a big portion of glass-screen TVs, they probably wouldn't cost dramatically less than that.  



This stuff is always pretty complicated.  The deeper you scratch an issue, the more indirect factors you start to notice. 

[ramairthree]

If I'm ever in situation where I'm competing for and/or losing out on a job to a person that, in the average, doesn't speak english, has a a 3rd grade education, and is unfamiliar with our society - then I'm gonna ask myself where I f--cked up that badly.
 

If an employer can replace me with 5 Hispanics for the same money and get the equivalent of twice the work that I do in the same day, it is very tempting.

Its called basic economics of capitalism and competition. If someone is willing to do a job for x amount, then thats what the job is worth. So if you can be replaced by 5 guys for the same money, youve been getting overpaid 5x and freeloading off of your employer all along. Anything else, like fines, is government manipulation of the market through artificially high wages. You know, like they do in China and Venezuela. Expecting to be paid more based on some arbitrary attribute (like "well Im an American, I should get more $") instead of the actual value of your labor is a form of entitlement - again, not unlike a burger flipper expecting to be $20 an hour bc they 'deserve' it.

Im not getting replaced in my job by 5 illegals anytime soon bc it doesnt involve mindless manual labor. But yeah, Im the ignorant one.  

The problem is this is not economics in a vacuum.

The employer is paying ten guys five bucks and hour instead of 15 and making about like a bandit, especially since it's cash and no SS/MC/FICA.

But they are driving around drunk getting in accidents, costing a fortune at the ER, clogging schools with non English speaking kids whose parents are illiterate in their own language, increasing property time, raising everyone's insurance cost, etc. 

You are costing your existing citizens far more than they saved on their roof, not even accounting for how much of that savings was pocketed by the employer instead of passed on to the buyer.

The Amercian for $15 dollars an hour would have been saving up to buy an ATV locally, a used car at the local dealership, and various other things instead of wiring it back home.

The non citizen you are paying 5$ under the table is pumping the anchor babies into his old lady, sucking up your fellow citizens tax dollars into Medicare, section 8, EBT, etc.

Then they will be voting Democrat for more benefits, more environmental and emission tests, more crap keeping you from having your cars, etc.

It is not free market and fair competition when other citizens and the government are subsidizing your shady employment practices and dotting the bill.

[alfaitalia]

[quote

But they are driving around drunk getting in accidents, costing a fortune at the ER, clogging schools with non English speaking kids whose parents are illiterate in their own language, increasing property time, raising everyone's insurance cost, etc.  

The non citizen you are paying 5$ under the table is pumping the anchor babies into his old lady, sucking up your fellow citizens tax dollars into Medicare, section 8, EBT, etc.

Then they will be voting Democrat for more benefits, more environmental and emission tests, more crap keeping you from having your cars, etc.

It is not free market and fair competition when other citizens and the government are subsidizing your shady employment practices and dotting the bill.
[/quote]

LOL! You (and other posters) do seem to tarring all the immigrants with the same brush...which seems a little unfair. What would you do in their situation?.....try and go over the border and get a better life for your family of course....as most of us would if life got that bad. Its the employers that should be feeling the bat....not the workers.

14.3 % of your population born outside your country...excluding the illegals ....So maybe stopping so many entering legitimately might take the pressure off a bit. And how many poster are confusing illegals with legitimate workers from South America. People moan about immigrants here and on 13.5% of our pop where born outside the UK....quite high in the world rankings. And Im fine with that.....obviously the largely racist BREXIT lot where not though!!! LOL!

This is interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population

[odcics2]

Every year there is a MoPar swap meet in Michigan during the winter.   

Every year the participants get older.   

Every year they talk about who died during the last year and then had their stuff liquidated, by either selling it off
or the kids tossed it all in a dumpster.   

Very, very, very, few young guys are at these shows to carry the torch on....   

I'm sure you all have seen the same trend in your part of the country.

[alfaitalia]

Over here there are lots of young folks at the shows...and quite a few exhibiting. But not with cars from the 60s. They think a 1983 Mk2 VW Golf is a VERY OLD car....and I guess if you were born in 1993 it is! Some of these cars I would be proud to own and they put just as much effort into them as many on here do.....but the difference is the cars they choose are (relatively) affordable cars to rebuild. Classic Japanese cars are also growing in popularity at UK shows and many are very rare now due to how rust prone 70s and 80s Japanese cars were. As said above....the cars of your youth are the ones you like....so for me that's late 60s and 70s cars. As much as I will admire a 40s or 50s car at the shows they would never appeal as on ownership proposition as I have no history or memories of them and therefore no real emotional connection. That said the film industries obsession  with our cars will help keep prices up for rather longer than other models IMO. Only time will tell.

[RECHRGD]

Over here there are lots of young folks at the shows...and quite a few exhibiting. But not with cars from the 60s. They think a 1983 Mk2 VW Golf is a VERY OLD car....and I guess if you were born in 1993 it is! Some of these cars I would be proud to own and they put just as much effort into them as many on here do.....but the difference is the cars they choose are (relatively) affordable cars to rebuild. Classic Japanese cars are also growing in popularity at UK shows and many are very rare now due to how rust prone 70s and 80s Japanese cars were. As said above....the cars of your youth are the ones you like....so for me that's late 60s and 70s cars. As much as I will admire a 40s or 50s car at the shows they would never appeal as on ownership proposition as I have no history or memories of them and therefore no real emotional connection. That said the film industries obsession  with our cars will help keep prices up for rather longer than other models IMO. Only time will tell.

A few months back, I sold my '68 to an 18 year old college student.  His parents and grandparents helped him buy it and he's paying them back.  He also has a '65 mustang.  So, yes the young folks do have interest in our cars, but few have the resources to buy them.  Lucky Kid!!!

[ramairthree]

[quote

But they are driving around drunk getting in accidents, costing a fortune at the ER, clogging schools with non English speaking kids whose parents are illiterate in their own language, increasing property time, raising everyone's insurance cost, etc.  

The non citizen you are paying 5$ under the table is pumping the anchor babies into his old lady, sucking up your fellow citizens tax dollars into Medicare, section 8, EBT, etc.

Then they will be voting Democrat for more benefits, more environmental and emission tests, more crap keeping you from having your cars, etc.

It is not free market and fair competition when other citizens and the government are subsidizing your shady employment practices and dotting the bill.

LOL! You (and other posters) do seem to tarring all the immigrants with the same brush...which seems a little unfair. What would you do in their situation?.....try and go over the border and get a better life for your family of course....as most of us would if life got that bad. Its the employers that should be feeling the bat....not the workers.

14.3 % of your population born outside your country...excluding the illegals ....So maybe stopping so many entering legitimately might take the pressure off a bit. And how many poster are confusing illegals with legitimate workers from South America. People moan about immigrants here and on 13.5% of our pop where born outside the UK....quite high in the world rankings. And Im fine with that.....obviously the largely racist BREXIT lot where not though!!! LOL!

This is interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population
[/quote]

I am not complaining about all immigrants.

I am complaining about immigration, legal or illegal, that brings in populations to be an underclass chattel to save an employer labor money, but cost a fortune in taxes to support.

[Kern Dog]

Don't expect a person from an island country to understand the struggles we have, where a border on LAND is much easier to cross or tunnel under.

[Challenger340]

perspective....
just try walking/sneaking across the border into China ? or Russia ? and claiming refugee status... working as an illegal... or any one of the current activities going on in the U.S. ?
go ahead...
anyone ?
anyone ?

[alfaitalia]

Don't expect a person from an island country to understand the struggles we have, where a border on LAND is much easier to cross or tunnel under.

Maybe it does not make the news in the USA....but we are having major problems with illegals coming across from mainland Europe Mainly from Syria and the middle East (so I'm not completely without sympathy for them) ....some stow away in trucks but many just come across in overcrowded boats. Much more difficult to patrol a coast than a land border....especially when the water in question is the English Channel....one of the busiest waterways in the world. Virtually impossible to know which boats should be there and which shouldn't.