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Author Topic: Petty's race Superbird @ Mecum Harrisburg, PA auction - July 2019  (Read 851 times)
held1823
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« on: May 31, 2019, 09:08:07 AM »

https://www.mecum.com/lots/PA0819-379965/1970-plymouth-superbird-richard-petty-nascar/


this will be the one auction to watch this year.  fairly limited pool of race car collectors compared to the muscle car crowd, yet a very high profile car.

my instinct is to think this will go for stupid money, but i wouldn't be surprised to see it sell for under a quarter million

i'm a hard core wing fan, but somehow this one doesn't move me the way the ramo's car does, with it being the only one never "updated" from a wing car

the incredible pro stock cars are far more appealing to me if i had the bankroll to play the game


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ernie helderbrand - 409053
held1823
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« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2019, 09:10:21 AM »

...


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ernie helderbrand - 409053
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Tip to Tip Bird driven from Fairbanks to Key West


« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2019, 09:27:53 AM »

What a car!
Hoping it will be in a garage about 120 miles south of you in August Ernie

Bob
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gtx6970
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« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2019, 09:43:08 AM »

So, is it an original chassis and body combination or some mixture there of . Made to replicate one of his actual cars from the 1970 season

Me personally would rather have the 1965 Sox and Martin AFX car myself from the same collection
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held1823
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« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2019, 09:43:13 AM »

What a car!
Hoping it will be in a garage about 120 miles south of you in August Ernie

Bob


that would be sweet,  i might even get visitation rights, lol

i waved at you as i passed through a couple of times last sunday
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ernie helderbrand - 409053
held1823
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« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2019, 09:45:30 AM »

So, is it an original chassis and body combination or some mixture there of . Made to replicate one of his actual cars from the 1970 season

Me personally would rather have the 1965 Sox and Martin AFX car myself from the same collection

if i recall the details, it is the vintage chassis that was first (and incorrectly) restored as pete's #40 bird

our own guru Doug helped convince them that the chassis was in fact Richard's #43
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ernie helderbrand - 409053
gtx6970
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« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2019, 11:07:15 AM »

I remember an article from years ago. there were 3 petty Birds built.
One was destroyed and buried on the petty grounds.
One in some guys family room ( in Virginia maybe ? )

3rd one was the one in the Petty Museum and if I remember right this car something was not right, ( show or promo car built back then maybe ? )

I don't follow NASCAR stuff by any means so I may be way off
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odcics2
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« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2019, 12:29:45 PM »

Nice car!   

 
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2019, 01:35:32 PM »

Does anyone have an idea how much coin this car will bring?
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Highbanked Hauler
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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2019, 02:25:47 PM »

  It looks like the floor and the firewall on the right side have both been hammered into shape probably from a wreck ?
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gtx6970
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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2019, 03:10:15 PM »

Does anyone have an idea how much coin this car will bring?

just a guess on my part.and the fact this is the only one with a reserve. me thinks he wants 7 figures.

Value to me would depend A LOT on if it still retains its original body and chassis combination.
Considering the fact MOST nascars cars back then  got updated with newer exterior skins as opposed to an all new car year after year .  Anyone know for sure ?
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Aero426
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2019, 04:41:05 PM »

So, is it an original chassis and body combination or some mixture there of . Made to replicate one of his actual cars from the 1970 season

In my opinion, this is the actual #43 raced Superbird.    

There were only FOUR Petty team race cars used during 1970.  And only three available at any one time.   The lineage has been well vetted.    I'll go through them one at a time.

1.  #43 Superbird - this car.  Nichels framed and finished at Level Cross.   Only driven by Richard.    Sold off in 1971 as a standard 1970 Road Runner.   Raced on and eventually reskinned as a '74 Charger and was in good condition when restored.      Back dated to Superbird during restoration at Petty's Garage, circa 2009.     Initially restored in the #40 car livery.    Corrected by Petty's Garage in 2014.   Photo evidence proves this is the real #43.

2. #40 Superbird - Nichels framed and finished at Level Cross.  Only driven by Pete Hamilton.   Sold off in 1971 as a standard 1970 Road Runner to Herschel McGriff.   Raced on into the mid-70's, sold and disappeared.  

3. #43 Road Runner.   Nichels built turn key.   Wrecked at Darlington 4/70.   Stripped and put out to scrap out back.     Eventually frame straightened and reskinned for Hugh Hawthorne, a friend of the Pettys.  The car is kept inside his house.

4.  #43 Road Runner - Petty built turn key.    Replaced the Darlington wreck.   Retained as a short track car in 1971 and 1972.   Did show car duty in 1973 and eventually was converted to Superbird for King's trophy room.  

Currently, there are three #43 Superbirds existent.    Depending on whose dog is in the fight,  you may hear different things about different cars.    Whatever.     Given the photos and some simple math. The Werner car is certainly not the #40 and it isn't the other two short trackers.    

There was a fifth car sometimes in the Petty shop during 1970.   It is the Chrysler Engineering test Superbird.   This car went to Norm Nelson in USAC in June 1971.   It was never a Petty race car, although it was painted Corporation Blue.  It became a 1972 Road Runner and eventually (likely) a Magnum for Sal Tovella in Chicago.   It is also MIA today.  
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Aero426
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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2019, 04:44:28 PM »

 It looks like the floor and the firewall on the right side have both been hammered into shape probably from a wreck ?

They have.   That was left in intentionally.

Note the trans tunnel is fabricated and stick welded.    Those welds are like a fingerprint.    No two cars will be alike.


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Aero426
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« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2019, 05:00:12 PM »

Pay attention to these two photos.    The documentation of these cars never complete.    We don't know it all.    And as The Dude said,  "New stuff has come to light".   This was one of those magic moments.    

The Mopar Muscle photo of course is from the restoration.     The photo of the stripped #43 was taken in Dec 1970 by a tourist at Level Cross.   It appeared on Facebook well after the car was completed.   I would not consider it a coincidence that the right side door bars have the same dinker in them in the same spot.  



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held1823
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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2019, 05:14:35 PM »

Quote
Pay attention to these two photos.    

I would not consider it a coincidence that the right side door bars have the same dinker in them in the same spot.  

doubtful they would/could have recreated that, even if it crossed their mind
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ernie helderbrand - 409053
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2019, 05:26:42 PM »

So, is it an original chassis and body combination or some mixture there of . Made to replicate one of his actual cars from the 1970 season

In my opinion, this is the actual #43 raced Superbird.    

There were only FOUR Petty team race cars used during 1970.  And only three available at any one time.   The lineage has been well vetted.    I'll go through them one at a time.

1.  #43 Superbird - this car.  Nichels framed and finished at Level Cross.   Only driven by Richard.    Sold off in 1971 as a standard 1970 Road Runner.   Raced on and eventually reskinned as a '74 Charger and was in good condition when restored.      Back dated to Superbird during restoration at Petty's Garage, circa 2009.     Initially restored in the #40 car livery.    Corrected by Petty's Garage in 2014.   Photo evidence proves this is the real #43.

2. #40 Superbird - Nichels framed and finished at Level Cross.  Only driven by Pete Hamilton.   Sold off in 1971 as a standard 1970 Road Runner to Herschel McGriff.   Raced on into the mid-70's, sold and disappeared.  

3. #43 Road Runner.   Nichels built turn key.   Wrecked at Darlington 4/70.   Stripped and put out to scrap out back.     Eventually frame straightened and reskinned for Hugh Hawthorne, a friend of the Pettys.  The car is kept inside his house.

4.  #43 Road Runner - Petty built turn key.    Replaced the Darlington wreck.   Retained as a short track car in 1971 and 1972.   Did show car duty in 1973 and eventually was converted to Superbird for King's trophy room.  

Currently, there are three #43 Superbirds existent.    Depending on whose dog is in the fight,  you may hear different things about different cars.    Whatever.     Given the photos and some simple math. The Werner car is certainly not the #40 and it isn't the other two short trackers.    

There was a fifth car sometimes in the Petty shop during 1970.   It is the Chrysler Engineering test Superbird.   This car went to Norm Nelson in USAC in June 1971.   It was never a Petty race car, although it was painted Corporation Blue.  It became a 1972 Road Runner and eventually (likely) a Magnum for Sal Tovella in Chicago.   It is also MIA today.  

Thanks Doug,
Like I said I dont follow Nascar then or now. so was mainly curious.

Besides your own,
Any Nascar wingcars still around with there original body and chassis as one unit ? ( aka never updated )
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Aero426
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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2019, 05:42:04 PM »


Besides your own,
Any Nascar wingcars still around with there original body and chassis as one unit ? ( aka never updated )

Superbird, for sure, only #7.      The Petty trophy room car would have it's last raced metal.  But that was not known to have raced as a Superbird.

Daytonas,  the #6 show car (did not see action in 1970),   Not enough info for me to say on the rest.    Most cars, it's pretty safe to say they have been partially reskinned or updated to a new model at some point.   Good cars rarely got set aside.   So the replacement of metal is almost unavoidable.   It's less of an issue compared to a street car.  But you have to get it right in your mind.    In this world, if you have four suspension pick up points and part of a cage, you have "a car".    Proof of provenance goes a long way, even if the outer skin has been replaced like George's axe handle.   
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gtx6970
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« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2019, 05:51:08 PM »

Thanks for the replies.

I knew the car in the trophy room had issues as a 'superbird', just wasnt 100% sure as to what extent. ( I was there many many years ago )


I was under the impression the K+ K Daytona still retains its original wingcar sheetmetal ?


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odcics2
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« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2019, 04:37:55 AM »

Pay attention to these two photos.    The documentation of these cars never complete.    We don't know it all.    And as The Dude said,  "New stuff has come to light".   This was one of those magic moments.    

The Mopar Muscle photo of course is from the restoration.     The photo of the stripped #43 was taken in Dec 1970 by a tourist at Level Cross.   It appeared on Facebook well after the car was completed.   I would not consider it a coincidence that the right side door bars have the same dinker in them in the same spot.  



Yeah, I remember when I literally pointed that out to you with my green arrows!! 
Vintage photos don't lie!    Twocents
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Dragon Slayer
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2019, 08:41:30 AM »

I do not follow Nascar either, but I am amazed that they were using a 66 single piston Master Cylinder in 1970 for Nascar.  No redundancy or at least split front rear braking?
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odcics2
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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2019, 10:26:26 AM »

Some guys liked the feel of a single master.
Most Nichels cars had dual masters. 
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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2019, 01:37:29 PM »

that's also a disc brake master cylinder....it has the extra piece between the body & the lid sandwiched in to hold more brake fluid on the disc brake cars

Bryan
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desertmopars
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« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2019, 06:13:40 PM »

Just bought today.


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odcics2
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« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2019, 05:21:04 AM »

Just bought today.

How's it taste?   shruggy

Years ago, Richard wouldn't even be sponsored by a beer company!    Twocents



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