Is a rear end with "lockers" safe ?

[ACUDANUT]

Just wondering if THOSE THAT HAVE THEM think. 

[Kern Dog]

What is YOUR definition of "safe" ?
Are you in an area with a lot of snow and ice?
Are you a good driver?
What are your intentions for whatever vehicle you are working on?

[ACUDANUT]

 Sorry, I meant safe on the road "street". 
Lockers spin at the same rate around corners, unlike Sure grips "aka" Posi's. 

[Mike DC]

                             
The 4x4 crowd basically considers lockers safe on the street *IF* you drive the vehicle with that in mind.  The car will not handle like something sporty.  In a corner it kinda pushes (understeer) until it ratchets a step.  The power isn't coming from both rear tires smoothly/evenly unless you are rolling straight (or you are wheelspinning on a slippery surface).  

Lockers normally come with very stiff springs inside.  Ideally you only want them as stiff as necessary.  So there is probably room for softer ones if you aren't running some brutally stressing combo (like a 6000-lb truck with 44-inch mud tires.)  That won't do away with the drawbacks of a locker but it can help 'soften' it a bit.  

They used to sell some 'soft locker' versions with mechanical changes to smooth them out.  But those fell out of favor for being too weak.  I don't think anyone is making them anymore.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I ditched them for spools. Didnt like the clunks and pops of the locker and unpredictable launches if it didnt fully lock or unlock on a turn. If you are considering a locker, go with a spool. No unpredictability. I have 0 issues driving a spool on the street with fat tires out back and skinnies up front. It steers perfectly normal with 1 hand on the wheel. Only time you notice it is in parking lot manuevers and even that gives me no issue, just a little more throttle to make the turn. My last spool equipeed car with bfg radial ta tires had no problems at all in slow speed turns, you just got the "chirp chirp chitp" as it skipped the tire in a tight slow parking lot type turn. On the road it was not noticed at all.

[ACUDANUT]

Well, I am confused. My 4.11 does not "have very stiff springs inside". I don't see any springs inside. ..Maybe I can take a photo of my 489 case while it's open to look it and share you all.
cheers. 

[cdr]

Well, I am confused. My 4.11 does not "have very stiff springs inside". I don't see any springs inside. ..Maybe I can take a photo of my 489 case while it's open to look it and share you all.
cheers. 

Dr Diff came out with a True Trac type that has the Helical gears, it is improved over the Eaton version, I have this type in my S60, street car it works awesome, no ratcheting or noise.

[Mike DC]

 
A Detroit locker, blown apart. 

There are springs holding the two halves locked together.  When driving around a tight corner, the difference in tire speeds must overcome the springs (and let the two halves separate) for it to move over a notch.  The softer the springs, the more easily it comes unlocked, and the less notchy the operation.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Just wondering if THOSE THAT HAVE THEM think. 

Seems you edited the post and highlighted key words. As i said, i HAD them and HATED them. SAFE? your defination and mine probably differ. Lockers have bee  available in certain dealership sold new trucks which by nhtsa makes them SAFE. But i dont like the unpredictability of them and the extra noise and popping. So i ask you, why are you considering one? There are better options in my opinion.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Well, I am confused. My 4.11 does not "have very stiff springs inside". I don't see any springs inside. ..Maybe I can take a photo of my 489 case while it's open to look it and share you all.
cheers. 

Your 489 is not a locker,the 489 is a cone style suregrip, he was referring the the springs inside a locker regarding how much torque it takes to open them to allow a ratchet in turns.

[cdr]

Just wondering if THOSE THAT HAVE THEM think. 

Seems you edited the post and highlighted key words. As i said, i HAD them and HATED them. SAFE? your defination and mine probably differ. Lockers have bee  available in certain dealership sold new trucks which by nhtsa makes them SAFE. But i dont like the unpredictability of them and the extra noise and popping. So i ask you, why are you considering one? There are better options in my opinion.

LOL, I have used them & dont like them, is that better for you

[ACUDANUT]

Well, I am confused. My 4.11 does not "have very stiff springs inside". I don't see any springs inside. ..Maybe I can take a photo of my 489 case while it's open to look it and share you all.
cheers. 

Your 489 is not a locker,the 489 is a cone style suregrip, he was referring the the springs inside a locker regarding how much torque it takes to open them to allow a ratchet in turns.

Well, CDR posted "Dr Diff came out with a True Trac type that has the Helical gears, it is improved over the Eaton version, I have this type in my S60, street car it works awesome, no ratcheting or noise".  I believe this is what I have. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

The trutrac diff is unmistakable. Post a picture of your diff and we can identify it.

[Mike DC]

Define "improved".  IIRC the helical gear types don't do as well every situation.   IIRC they are weaker than a traditional sure-grip in harsh use on uneven surfaces (where the drivetrain is hopping back and forth between traction & slip).  And when one wheel is totally without traction they cannot work. 

The helical gear types are a good choice for most guys with street performance cars.  But I would rather have one of the older LSD designs in a truck/jeep.   

[c00nhunterjoe]

Define "improved".  IIRC the helical gear types don't do as well every situation.   IIRC they are weaker than a traditional sure-grip in harsh use on uneven surfaces (where the drivetrain is hopping back and forth between traction & slip).  And when one wheel is totally without traction they cannot work. 

The helical gear types are a good choice for most guys with street performance cars.  But I would rather have one of the older LSD designs in a truck/jeep.   

I can make a tru trac lock and drive off with 1 tire completely off the ground. They are great for on/offroad trucks. Not my 1st choice for a strip car due to them potentially not being fully engaged on a launch. On slicks and high hp, that could send you into a wall.

[Mike DC]

I can make a tru trac lock and drive off with 1 tire completely off the ground.

So they've improved that now?  The earlier ones had no capacity to work if one wheel had zero traction.  I remember one brand had come up with a fix but it wasn't durable enough initially.  

They are great for on/offroad trucks. Not my 1st choice for a strip car due to them potentially not being fully engaged on a launch. On slicks and high hp, that could send you into a wall.

Yeah, with slicks and high HP you're better off just having things locked up.  Unpredictability = wreck.      

Air (switchable) lockers seem like the most streetable heavy-duty combo of all.  But you have to put up with having an open diff when it's not locked.  

[Kern Dog]

Well, I am confused. My 4.11 does not "have very stiff springs inside". I don't see any springs inside. ..Maybe I can take a photo of my 489 case while it's open to look it and share you all.
cheers. 

I know I'm splitting hairs but the 4.11 ratio was never offered in a Mopar. 4.10, sure.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I can make a tru trac lock and drive off with 1 tire completely off the ground.

So they've improved that now?  The earlier ones had no capacity to work if one wheel had zero traction.  I remember one brand had come up with a fix but it wasn't durable enough initially.  

They are great for on/offroad trucks. Not my 1st choice for a strip car due to them potentially not being fully engaged on a launch. On slicks and high hp, that could send you into a wall.

Yeah, with slicks and high HP you're better off just having things locked up.  Unpredictability = wreck.      

Air (switchable) lockers seem like the most streetable heavy-duty combo of all.  But you have to put up with having an open diff when it's not locked.  

In military hmmwv's, i could do it from original production through the 2010 models. And the last one i purchased for a civilian truck was an 09 ram 1500. You have to know how to use them. If you just jack the tire up, it will free spin. Brake and throttle modulation will allow controlled lockup and unlocking.

[ACUDANUT]

Ok, my mistake. 4.10

[c00nhunterjoe]

Ok, my mistake. 4.10

So what is the end goal of the initial question? Are you considering swapping your 489 sure grip for a locker? What are your plans? Are you open to other diff styles? What led you to the detroit style locker?

[ACUDANUT]

 No end goal. Just wondering what to expect. Can I send pictures to someone here to post for me. I am having issues. Please PM me a address and I will happy to share. Thanks, Mike

[c00nhunterjoe]

Pm sent. If this is a true cruiser, i dont think you will like the locker.

[ACUDANUT]

Thanks Joe. Pic's sent 

[c00nhunterjoe]

I will upload the pics for all to see once its sorted out. Stand by peeps.

[ACUDANUT]

 So, My Mopar Friend, tells me it is called a "spool".  All direct driving gears with no clutches, springs or any other crap.  It's a Direct Drive and cost me 1500.  Joe said they cost 2200 New.
Going into my 383 '72 Charger Rallye. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

A complete dana 60 will cost you 2200. Lots of variables. I say you own it so pop it in and see if you like it. Gaurentee to spin both tires. I like them. Others dont.

[ACUDANUT]

Thanks Joe. I will like them.  Both Tires spinning is a Must. !!

[erndog]

I had a right rear axle break at mph 68 mph going into 4 gear on a dana 456 with a spool in it, the car did an immediate left hand turn right into the concrete wall crunch!!!

[ACUDANUT]

My Spool has aftermarket axles and they are much bigger than the factory ones.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I have 35 spline axles in my dana with slicks on the street. No problems

[71GSSDemon]

I must have missed something somewhere in the posts...Looks to me that is a spool, not what is typically called a "locker" from Detroit Corp.

[c00nhunterjoe]

It is a spool. Initially he wasnt sure what he had and thought it might be a locker.further inspection showed it was a spool

[ACUDANUT]

It is a spool. Initially he wasnt sure what he had and thought it might be a locker.further inspection showed it was a spool

Guilty as charged. I did not know the lingo. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

It is a spool. Initially he wasnt sure what he had and thought it might be a locker.further inspection showed it was a spool

Guilty as charged. I did not know the lingo. 

No guilt. Only stupid question is the one not asked.

[Kern Dog]

Come on, Joe. That is the polite but terribly inaccurate response. There are a LOT of stupid questions asked on these forums all the time. I've probably asked them before. The OP? I would not call him stupid. Some things you just don't know until you are told, some things you know for reasons you cannot explain.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Nah, if a person doesnt know the answer, i have no problem explaining it. I have a problem when i explain it, they dont listen, do it their way anyway, then come back asking the same question.