How are your "Green axle bearings" holding up?

[b5blue]

  Green axle bearings, the ones that replace the factory set-up. I've put about 8 years and thousands of miles on mine with no issues. I jack the rear and check bearing play closely from time to time and even have a set of Mopar outboard axle bearing rebuild kits waiting for any hint of trouble.
  Other friends with Mopar knowledgeable repair shops report the same thing with no issues. So just wondering if any others have had real first hand experience (Not here-say.) with Green's?   

[c00nhunterjoe]

2009 on the set in the 63' lots of passes on them, plenty of street miles. 630 hp in the 426.
The 69 got the dana... 5 years ago now, cant recall exact. 90% street driving. Spool and slicks. Was a 4 speed, new engine is in the 700 horse range, lots of corners and abuse.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Ive had mine in since 1998...well over 25k miles on them...

[71charger_fan]

I had the housing and axles, but not the adjusters, so I used green bearings. That was in the '90s and still fine.

[Kern Dog]

I'm on my second set after about 11,000 miles.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I'm on my second set after about 11,000 miles.

You rebel... lol. What failed? And which style bearing do you have. The snap ring or the molded carrier?

[66FBCharger]

What are the pros and cons of using the Green bearings?

[John_Kunkel]

Most failures were of the original bearing with the attached flange, the newer "snap ring" type are better but I'd never use them.

Ball bearings simply can't handle the side loads (turning corners) like the tapered roller can.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Most failures were of the original bearing with the attached flange, the newer "snap ring" type are better but I'd never use them.

Ball bearings simply can't handle the side loads (turning corners) like the tapered roller can.

With the exception of hd pickups, everything today uses ball bearings. I beleive even hellcats and demons do. Not saying you should change your stock setup if its working fine, there is no reason to change unless you are making modifications that dictate it.

[Kern Dog]

I'm on my second set after about 11,000 miles.

You rebel... lol. What failed? And which style bearing do you have. The snap ring or the molded carrier?

Snap ring. They came with the Moser axles I bought in 2003 or 2004. They weren't making a LOT of noise but I was getting some squeaking and one was wobbly.

[Nacho-RT74]

Most failures were of the original bearing with the attached flange, the newer "snap ring" type are better but I'd never use them.

Ball bearings simply can't handle the side loads (turning corners) like the tapered roller can.

With the exception of hd pickups, everything today uses ball bearings. I beleive even hellcats and demons do. Not saying you should change your stock setup if its working fine, there is no reason to change unless you are making modifications that dictate it.

But I think those aren't press installed and get C clips on inner end, right? Just like any regular axle. Not the banjo pumkin kind.

[John_Kunkel]

With the exception of hd pickups, everything today uses ball bearings. I beleive even hellcats and demons do.

Yeah but they're factory designed, not a retrofit like the Greens.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I'm on my second set after about 11,000 miles.

You rebel... lol. What failed? And which style bearing do you have. The snap ring or the molded carrier?

Snap ring. They came with the Moser axles I bought in 2003 or 2004. They weren't making a LOT of noise but I was getting some squeaking and one was wobbly.

Moser... yuck. Never a good time with them.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Most failures were of the original bearing with the attached flange, the newer "snap ring" type are better but I'd never use them.

Ball bearings simply can't handle the side loads (turning corners) like the tapered roller can.

With the exception of hd pickups, everything today uses ball bearings. I beleive even hellcats and demons do. Not saying you should change your stock setup if its working fine, there is no reason to change unless you are making modifications that dictate it.

But I think those aren't press installed and get C clips on inner end, right? Just like any regular axle. Not the banjo pumkin kind.

Because c clips are the way to go...banned from the track on stickies.  But i hear your arguement.

[c00nhunterjoe]

With the exception of hd pickups, everything today uses ball bearings. I beleive even hellcats and demons do.

Yeah but they're factory designed, not a retrofit like the Greens.

And plenty of people run them without a failure. Again, not disputing the strength of the taped.

[white]

Have no problems with mine, installed in 2011, put 2,000 miles per year on them.

[b5blue]

  Thanks for all the feedback!

[John_Kunkel]

FWIW, in my 25+ years of surfing the Mopar web boards I've never seen a thread concerning failed factory taper bearings but have seen lots of threads on failed Greens.

[b5blue]

Long story short after many hard miles, (Trunk stuffed full of construction tools driving nasty job sights.) I got brindled races and switched to Greens. Hence this topic. 

[Birdflu]

Ball bearings simply can't handle the side loads (turning corners) like the tapered roller can.

Couldn't be any more accurate. One thing to keep in mind, current production vehicles that have inner axle retention (c-clips) are equipped with roller bearings NOT spherical ball bearings on the outer end. The roller only sees the weight of the vehicle and doesn't have to deal with side loads when cornering, the differential deals with that. Putting a spherical ball bearing on the outer end of an axle shaft is inferior to Chryslers original tapered design. The only argument a guy can make about their ultimate lifespan is that the classic cars we own are nowhere driven the amount they used to be. It may take someone 20 years to put enough seasonal miles on a pair of green bearings to see any amount of wear or complete failure. Green type bearings are wonderful on the drag strip and are easy to use as they don't require adjustment when installing. My cars will ALWAYS be running stock type tapered roller bearings. Now you have my .02!  

[John_Kunkel]

Long story short after many hard miles, (Trunk stuffed full of construction tools driving nasty job sights.) I got brindled races and switched to Greens. Hence this topic.  

You need to hone your shopping skills; Doc Diff gets the EXACT same price for the Greens and the stock tapered and the installation labor is the same.

[b5blue]

I've 2 Factory wheel bearing replacement kits (With all the goodies.) in my parts supply.    Like I said I could hear a slight growl on the right.

[tonyskala]

Hello folks... I am so confused on this.
I have a 68 Charger. I am in the process of doing a Pirate Jack 4 wheel disk brake conversion. I hate to say I worked more with GM and Ford Vehicles and this is my first classic Mopar.

So after a ton of cursing, pissing and moaning, 5 pound mallet whacks, I got the front completely done. I put new inner / outer tie rods, new idler arm, new pitman arm, new lower ball joints, new qa1 upper control arms, qa1 dynamic strut bar, new qa1 shocks, new lower control arm shafts and bushings, new adco 1-1/8 sway bar and bushings, strengthened the lower control arms, and got the new disk brakes on the front.

Now I am on to the rears. So one fella told me if you put disks on the back you need to use the green bearings. Then I found this thread. I plan to drive the living piss out of this car. 7-10k miles a year......Depending on gas prices.

I drive like a jerk. I mean like a real jerk. I usually drive my cars into the ground rendering them useless to future owners except for scrap metal value. Hard cornering, rapid acceleration and rapid braking. I am tough on my cars.

So

Am I being fed a line on green bearings being required for rear disks? I need something tough and able to take a pounding. Working on this Mopar has not been easy for me. Everything is so different than a GM or ford.... I was looking at the green bearings and I am not even sure how to pull them off if they fail and it sounds like the do fail. My experience on sealed bearings has not been positive.  If removing these things are anything like removing the lower control arm bushings I would almost rather sell the car than replace those again. I got this harbor freight 12 ton press and the thing burst on me while I was pushing out the bushings in the LCA. Fluid went all over my garage and the wife is pissed. So I really don't want to redo any of this again. I would prefer to do the tapered rear bearings if I can. Unless there is some overwhelming advantage to these green bearings or absolute requirement to use them.

[Mopar Nut]

Most rear disc kits do require green bearings, disc's can't tolerate side to side movement. Stick with drums if you don't want to mess with bearing replacement. You won't notice the difference between rear disks and drum brakes unless you use large rotors. The new green style bearings are much better than the older ones. Talk to Cass at Doctor Diff, he knows MoPar's, brakes and rest ends.

https://www.doctordiff.com/

What size rotors are you using in the front disc's?

[John_Kunkel]

Am I being fed a line on green bearings being required for rear disks?

Conventional wisdom say discs don't work well with the factory specified end play in the tapered bearings, but look at the front wheel tapered  bearings...they can be run with zero endplay and survive, so why not run the rear axle tapered bearings at zero end play?

[Nacho-RT74]

Am I being fed a line on green bearings being required for rear disks?

Conventional wisdom say discs don't work well with the factory specified end play in the tapered bearings, but look at the front wheel tapered  bearings...they can be run with zero endplay and survive, so why not run the rear axle tapered bearings at zero end play?

I'd say because maybe there are more moving parts involved on the metal dilatation with heat ? axles, spacer, aside of course the bearings itself

but maybe just 0.002-3"? instead the factory 0.008"

( just thinking out loud )

[tonyskala]

I found Doctor diff in another thread here and also found him referenced in a youtube video. I looked him up last night but it looks like he is out for a few days.

I am running 11inch cross drilled rotors on both front and rear. It is the standard pirate jack kit. I already did the fronts and it went together really well. I am pleased so far on fitment. My old fox body had the same front bearing setup and it worked just fine. I was just worried about see rears. In retrospect I probably should have just left the rear drums but I purchased a kit with the whole thing. And from working on the car thus far. it all needs to be gone through. So doing the bearings anyway is a good idea.

In other thread there was info about the green bearings with the locking ring much much better and 2 variants of it 1 with a thicker ring 1 with a thinner ring. I think I will go with that the thicker locking ring. Also doctor diff is much cheaper than anywhere else I looked on these bearings. it was like 75 for the pair.

I will ring him on Thursday.

Thanks for the help

[John_Kunkel]

Also note that Doc Diff offers a rear disc kit that can be used with factory bearings....so it's doable.

[tonyskala]

Yeah, I probably jumped the gun too quick and got the first one I saw because I bought from the same guy for GM car I have. I liked the kit and decided he offered and decided to get the same kit from the same manufacture but for the mopar. But I certainly should have consulted this forum first. Lesson Learned. But thanks for the setting straight.

[flyinlow]

I have 35K + on snap ring green bearing for rear disk brakes Mod.  One got noisy after 25-30K miles and was replaced. Noise developed over a couple thousand miles, did not fail suddenly and strand me.

Now with disk brake kits that use the tapered bearings ,I would go that route. 

[tonyskala]

Forgot to reply.
I did call Dr Diff and the fella I talked to cut me off as he has heard the same question over and over. He got straight to the point and he told me exactly what I needed and how to do it and then explained why these green bearings were needed. I bought the green bearings from him.

And From earlier the rotors for both front and back are 11 inches. What I don't like is that I have to use a 1 inch wheel spacer because the rims i got sat too far in. I already mounted tires and they would not take them back after I mounted them. I am worried about the stress on the lugs. I was told that 1 inch would not make a difference. That extra stress would come from added weight and the distance further way from the rotor the wheel sat. I am in the process of rebuilding the steering column now which is another saga

[John_Kunkel]

He got straight to the point and he told me exactly what I needed and how to do it and then explained why these green bearings were needed.

What was the explanation of the need for Green bearings?

[Kern Dog]

Mopar guys like Rick Ehrenberg state that the ball bearing design is inferior. At the same time, he did a series of articles on a build up of a '70 Road Runner that was built in New York and driven across country to be loaded onto a shipping container in San Francisco CA....all 3000+ miles with ball bearing axle bearings.

[Mike DC]

  

Mopar guys like Rick Ehrenberg state that the ball bearing design is inferior. At the same time, he did a series of articles on a build up of a '70 Road Runner that was built in New York and driven across country to be loaded onto a shipping container in San Francisco CA....all 3000+ miles with ball bearing axle bearings.

                 
That's a few thousand easygoing street miles, though.  It's not gonna put a lot of lateral loads on the bearings.    
   

[Nacho-RT74]

I'm wondering, when tappered bearings become on a "questionable" setup ? And how many times you have had to deal with them in the past to be worried about them ? There is not even in fact a "performance upgrade" going to ball bearings! there is nothing really noticeable to win, except on the need to get them adjusted... yeah, right, just once then a recheck after some miles, but maybe every 10 years if being a driver!

[John_Kunkel]

Forgot to reply.
I did call Dr Diff and the fella I talked to cut me off as he has heard the same question over and over.

Doc Diff hisself (Cass) has stated many times that he got tired of answering questions about adjusting the factory bearings and now recommends the Greens because they need no adjustment. When questioned about the durability of ball bearings vs the factory tapered bearings he repeatedly notes that many factory installations use ball bearings. I'm still not convinced.

I know that anecdotal experience varies, I've never seen a factory bearing fail but I've seen a fistful of the Greens fail.

[b5blue]

  I'm running "Greens" because of tapered failure. 5-6 years of hard constant driving with 300LBS of tools stuffed in the trunk I picked up a slight growl coming from right rear. The bearing race was brindled upon removal and checking. I've a pair of NOS factory bearing replacement service packs that even include new adjusters waiting for any trouble from "Greens" installed 8 years ago.
  The aspect that sucks for tapered is proper greasing is a PIA after installation.

[Mike DC]

  

Doc Diff hisself (Cass) has stated many times that he got tired of answering questions about adjusting the factory bearings and now recommends the Greens because they need no adjustment.  When questioned about the durability of ball bearings vs the factory tapered bearings he repeatedly notes that many factory installations use ball bearings. I'm still not convinced.

That is not really a fair comparison.  IIRC the modern factory hubs that use ball bearings are typically a more complex double-row design.  The greens are a simpler deal so they can retrofit into a spot designed for tapered.    

[flyinlow]

I would think the tapered bearings are under side loads all the time. They do have a large   surface area to support this. Right now the 1970 Charger in my garage is parked with one roller on each axle bearing at the twelve o'clock position holding approximately 1000 lb. load against the bearing cone which is tapered. The bearing wants slide down and out of the cone and if not for the retainers powerful grip on the axle it would.  Parked  next  to it is a 1973 Charger with green bearings. The ball bearing have the same load on them, but there is currently no side load on them. If the retainer split and lost its grip on the axle the car/bearing /axle would just sit there ,until driven.  I have  cornered hard at times with no problems.  I do expect to replace the green ones every decade or so.

I agree with John_Kunkel  that properly maintained tapered roller bearings will last longer. The few I saw fail back the days when these cars where daily drivers where from neglect or improper maintenance.

[tonyskala]

Yes, so I guess his name is Cass at Dr. Diff.... Well he said it they were needed because of side load. But he also said either green or tapered will require some maintenance, and that folks that The green have rubber o rings. Those will break down ofter a while but he said like 10 years, 100k miles.

Either way he was pretty clear that the setup I had required the green bearings, When I told him I drive like a jerk no matter what car I am in and will most likely even be a bigger jerk in this car.. .he still said 10 years 100K... He did not have a concern about the greens being beat up.

[Kern Dog]

Forgot to reply.
I did call Dr Diff and the fella I talked to cut me off as he has heard the same question over and over.

Doc Diff hisself (Cass) has stated many times that he got tired of answering questions about adjusting the factory bearings and now recommends the Greens because they need no adjustment. When questioned about the durability of ball bearings vs the factory tapered bearings he repeatedly notes that many factory installations use ball bearings. I'm still not convinced.

I know that anecdotal experience varies, I've never seen a factory bearing fail but I've seen a fistful of the Greens fail.

I agree.
Many people sing the praises of Dr Diff. I think that he is smart and helpful but to me, the Ball Bearing design is an answer to a question that very few people asked. Adjusting the factory bearings is not difficult unless you are an absolute newbie or a total mouth breather.