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Author Topic: Question on Daytona Master Cylinders, Hope Original Owner Can respond  (Read 627 times)
Dragon Slayer
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« on: April 10, 2019, 06:32:27 AM »

I am not a complete expert on B body Brakes, but I have studied them in depth as a project.  And do believe I have pretty good knowledge of what is right and wrong.  I do believe the consensus is that assembly line Bendix Power Disc brake assemblies where painted Black.  Yet on many of the cars seen for sale, especially wing cars, they are not painted.  Or, the MC is painted but lid is left as Chromate or Zinc coated.  (From Historical post I found that Judges at one point deducted for painted lids; so maybe that drove the error.  It is true an over the counter part would not be painted.)

What I know is that for Mopar B body in the 67-70 time frame the lids where Chromate coated and painted for assembly line.  Later over counter lids might be zinc coated, and the Ford Mustang part (which is similar) came Chromate first, then later production zinc coated.  There is also subtle changes in where the lid vents are versus year.

The other thing I am really interest in is the date coding on the side.  Some time late 69 possibly for the 70 models, date code info started to be stamped on MC side.  BUT, anything before that had a tag about 1/2" by 7/8" with a 4 number stamp.  I have an original dated 9111.

I have only seen one highend restoration of a car that had the tag on the MC.  It would be hung off the bail.  Easy to be damaged or lost as it was thin aluminum.

So are there any original owners of Daytona with Disc brakes that have the bail tag?  I am interested in the detailed marking on the side if any, and bail tag.  Thanks,
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2019, 01:02:03 PM »

On the Bendix units, all the originals I have seen the booster and complete MC was painted black together.  Now, you sometimes can tell parts-store rebuilds will have a dimple on the very end of the master cylinder when it was remanufactured/rebuilt.. Originals don't have that.. You can NOT count on people over the span of 30 years putting things back to what they were originally. A lot of times these were daily drivers for some and parts wore out and needed to be replaced, often times with parts available at the parts store...

reference picture is a

1. 1969 application
2. You can see the dimple on the very front of the master cylinder


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Troy
'69 Charger 500 426 Hemi auto; #5 pre-production
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
Houston Mopar Club Connection
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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2019, 09:10:22 PM »

Thanks for response.  I understand that, and the Bendix with cast # underneath would be correct, but many folks nitpick a lot of detail (some which I think are minor) yet I don't see many comment about incorrect MC, unless it is an after market GM type.  I posted after seeing several of the cars posted for sale recently, with comments about them. But no one seems to point out the MC issues, like the Hemi with disc brakes, but a manual drum MC installed. Or the highend resto with a unpainted MC and cap.  To me, you open the engine compartment and air cleaner, Master Cylinder, Washer bottle, radiator are the big ticket items you kind of see first along with battery and cable.  When they are wrong, just gives suspect to the rest of the car.  Does anyone have a MC with date code bail tag on their C500 or Daytona? 
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Mytur Binsdirti
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2019, 10:15:55 AM »

What's with the funky line adapters on the Hemi master cylinder?
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2019, 02:33:41 PM »

What's with the funky line adapters on the Hemi master cylinder?

Not sure.. But not all of the pictures of the archived Charger 500 hemis have that pair of fittings... I have a pair thanks to a member here and they look exactly like those in the picture. Mine 500 does not them and it appears the MC is original to the car..

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Troy
'69 Charger 500 426 Hemi auto; #5 pre-production
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2019, 04:26:38 AM »

Troy,  The picture you show of picking up the car, is not the original for a hemi B body.  It looks like the more common 71 up MC.  Are those adapters pipe thread?  I have not seen those before, but there is a Drum MC on the shelve of a shop I help at that has them on it.  It could be the MC was leaking and those were a temp fix to stop the leak if the brass insert was damaged.  OR, the lines look like they are the same size, it possible they are just fitting adapters to match the lines to the MC port size for some reason?  Hard to say, but I am going to look at the other MC more closely to see what is up.

Here is a 69 Dodge document that might help.


* 69 Brake Tech Note.jpg (144.5 KB, 801x1024 - viewed 175 times.)
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2019, 05:46:27 AM »

Troy,  The picture you show of picking up the car, is not the original for a hemi B body.  It looks like the more common 71 up MC.  ...

I see exactly what you are talking about.  Thanks for the observation. Guess I need to be on the search for a proper MC now..... rats..... Oh well..... All part of the process.....  might have one.. might..

T
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Troy
'69 Charger 500 426 Hemi auto; #5 pre-production
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
Houston Mopar Club Connection
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2019, 07:23:08 AM »

I will shoot you some pics by e-mail.  They were too large to load.  The 69-70 C body has the same Bendix number, internally they used different pistons. Externally, no one can tell.
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superbirdtom
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2019, 01:41:59 PM »

questions :  were superbirds the only b Body that had the brake lines coming out of the master cylinder on the engine side?  why did superbirds have them on that side?     --i was on a road trip years ago and mine went out on a sunday and only one parts store was open and had one that had opposite brake line position so i had to bend lines around which got me back on the road.  are they still available?
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hemi68charger
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2019, 06:38:28 PM »

questions :  were superbirds the only b Body that had the brake lines coming out of the master cylinder on the engine side?  why did superbirds have them on that side?     --i was on a road trip years ago and mine went out on a sunday and only one parts store was open and had one that had opposite brake line position so i had to bend lines around which got me back on the road.  are they still available?

Regarding the brake system, there wouldn't have been anything special about an engine configuration between a Superbird or, something like a GTX, Charger R/T, etc...

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Troy
'69 Charger 500 426 Hemi auto; #5 pre-production
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
Houston Mopar Club Connection
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« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2019, 06:54:49 AM »

68-69 B body Front Disc Power Brakes with Hemi had the lines towards fender, for clearance.  All others had lines towards motor.  67 is the exception, as it was the first year for Bendix tandem (dual piston) MC, and all B bodies got the hemi version MC pointing towards fender.  68 is when the new Bendix MC pointing toward engine became available.  This MC was also used on 70 non hemi B bodies.  70E and 71B had a different type MC.

Those fitting are called Tube nuts.  Also listed in parts manual as adapters.  Part Number is 2880699 primary, 2880700 secondary.  The 67 service manual has a line about removing and reinstalling "Tube nut" separate from removing brake lines.  The Master training documents shows a picture of them on a MC but does not discuss them.  The part book shows them.

Since they are called adapters I can only surmise that as they transitioned from single piston MC to dual, and they started to use different size fitting to distinguish between front and rear lines this became a transition piece.  I do not think later year production MC had them, but I have not really studied 67-68 stuff.  My focus has been 69-70 B body.

Have a pair pulled off the Dual Drum MC as shown above.  I would say you need to make sure the seat is ok, the ones I have, have multiple rings and distorted cone.  So they really are not any good.  

Modified my response about brakes lines.  My comments are specific to the Power Disc Brake cars.


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held1823
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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2019, 08:51:06 AM »

Quote
68-69 B body with Hemi had the lines towards fender, for clearance.  All others had lines towards motor.  67 is the exception, as it was the first year for Bendix tandem (dual piston) MC, and all B bodies got the hemi version MC pointing towards fender.  68 is when the new Bendix MC pointing toward engine became available.  This MC was also used on 70 non hemi B bodies.  70E and 71B had a different type MC

i'm glad to see this thread, as the vacuum booster on my car was changed years ago. i doubt it is even the correct one for a daytona, but it's the line position that makes me curious now. mine is a 440 car, and the lines exit towards the fender. i see no evidence of them being swapped or adapted back then, and did not recall the master cylinder itself being changed at that time, only the booster.

from what i think i am reading here, the line position is irrelevant of manual or power brakes, as both should exit towards the engine side on 440 cars . i looked back at photos of three oe gold 440 daytonas, all with manual brakes, and each one exits towards the fender, same as on my power (four wheel drum) brake daytona.

since i am starting the restoration process on this car, i want to see if i'm starting with the right parts.
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ernie helderbrand - 409053
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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2019, 09:05:10 AM »

I modified my response as I was talking about Power Disc brake cars.   If your car was Drum even if Power Drum, you had a different MC and Booster.  The Drum/Drum did exit towards fender.
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held1823
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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2019, 09:14:00 AM »

I modified my response as I was talking about Power Disc brake cars.   If your car was Drum even if Power Drum, you had a different MC and Booster.  The Drum/Drum did exit towards fender.

eh, it was likely my reading comprehension that derailed me. still a good thread, even if it won't help me sort out my own mess.
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ernie helderbrand - 409053
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2019, 10:43:46 AM »

Ernie,
 Go to my B5 Daytona post and look at reply #261 for a nice original under hood shot.
Our Daytona has manual brakes but the original lines exit the master cylinder fender side!
A lot of other neat items to look at!
MJ
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Dragon Slayer
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2019, 11:01:18 AM »

I modified my response as I was talking about Power Disc brake cars.   If your car was Drum even if Power Drum, you had a different MC and Booster.  The Drum/Drum did exit towards fender.

eh, it was likely my reading comprehension that derailed me. still a good thread, even if it won't help me sort out my own mess.

Your MC is not correct.  The Drum/Drum was the same as used starting in 67 for B body all models.  Hard to believe an original MC would survive back in those days.
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