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Author Topic: Green Hemi C500 at B-J Palm Beach  (Read 2023 times)
Kowal
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« on: April 13, 2019, 02:17:43 PM »

Just went for $77K before fees.  We talked about this car before, as it was on e-bay recently.   Tough price for anyone but the buyer!   A red '68 Hemi Charger went for $120K prior to fees, right before it.   The '68 wasn't a numbers car, the C500 came with the original hemi block in a box.

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1969-DODGE-CHARGER-500-229907
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2019, 07:33:01 AM »

77!!??? Man.. That is low....
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Troy
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2019, 07:44:20 AM »

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ernie helderbrand - 409053
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2019, 08:19:21 AM »

So is that reflective of color and transmission?  Options?  How accurate is the restoration? 
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2019, 08:51:06 AM »

When you think about it, People are trying to get 35K just for a 426 Engine.  That's half the cars value right there.  That triple Green color killed it imo.
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2019, 10:56:40 AM »

Wow. More and more lately, I see these low prices and think "too bad- if I had only known, I would have paid more than that!". I love green Mopars, personally.
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2019, 11:20:19 AM »

Though I don't feel this way, I'm wondering if the 500 front end, even though it's a 2nd generation Charger, doesn't appeal to the crowd driving the Charger demand. Let's face it, out of all the 'classic' Mopars, it appears only the 2nd gen Charger has the attention of 18-30 year old enthusiasts. Don't believe me? Hang around on some other 'model specific' forum boards and you'll see the lack of younger generations interest first hand. How many of them would categorize the 500 as a 2nd gen Charger? Do they even know what it is besides a 'funny looking' Charger? Remember, they grew up watching the Jessica Simpson version of the Dukes of Hazzard and the entourage of Fast & Furious movies. Also, if you look at the cars that were most affected by the demand, it was the middle priced 383-440 cars that went berserk, not the ultra collectible Aero, wing and Hemi cars. The generation controlling the market doesn't have that kind of disposable income...yet. Look at how many of them are joining this board and dragging dilapidated cars home to restore...cars that you and I wouldn't even have thought about restoring 20-30 years ago! Don't take me the wrong way, I love these cars and welcome the younger enthusiasts full heartily into the hobby for whatever reason and hope they alone can carry on the tradition of loving and caring for these cars!  
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2019, 11:49:05 AM »

Though I don't feel this way, I'm wondering if the 500 front end, even though it's a 2nd generation Charger, doesn't appeal to the crowd driving the Charger demand. Let's face it, out of all the 'classic' Mopars, it appears only the 2nd gen Charger has the attention of 18-30 year old enthusiasts. Don't believe me? Hang around on some other 'model specific' forum boards and you'll see the lack of younger generations interest first hand. How many of them would categorize the 500 as a 2nd gen Charger? Do they even know what it is besides a 'funny' looking Charger? Remember, they grew up watching the Jessica Simpson version of the Dukes of Hazzard and the entourage of Fast & Furious movies. Also, if you look at the cars that were most affected by the demand, it was the middle priced 383-440 cars that went berserk, not the ultra collectible Aero, wing and Hemi cars. The generation controlling the market doesn't have that kind of disposable income...yet. Look at how many of them are joining this board and dragging dilapidated cars home to restore...cars that you and I wouldn't even have thought about restoring 20-30 years ago! Don't take me the wrong way, I love these cars and welcome the younger enthusiasts full heartily into the hobby for whatever reason and hope they alone can carry on the tradition of loving and caring for these cars!  

THIS ^^^^^^ 2thumbs
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superbirdtom
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2019, 01:42:12 PM »

thats what a white hemi 500 that Julius restored 10+ years ago went for. Then resold for way more then resold for less.  the restoration probably was 50k or more on the green one so u almost get the car for free.  good deals are out there still.  i was looking at 68 through 70 chargers on 3 different sites and theyre asking  45 to 85 range for 440 cars.  I think the market has topped out but we will see in a couple years.
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Kowal
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2019, 02:32:40 PM »

There are a couple of details wrong on the Charger, but from the e-bay ad that it was in, plus related YouTube videos, the underneath was all done up correctly, the car seemed very nice.    On e-bay this past January, the bidding had gotten somewhere like 110 or 120K.   

Not sure if the seller at B-J was the owner selling it on e-bay.    It could have been an unsuccessful flip.

At that price, a great deal regardless...unless it was a dealer buying it after tossing in a low bid and being surprised to get it.   If so, we will see it soon I am sure.

I thought it was a pretty car, toss some Magnums on it to brighten it up and it would be really great!!
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2019, 02:59:25 PM »

  The body shop bill was 75K alone.  (Wingman)
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2019, 03:08:20 PM »

Though I don't feel this way, I'm wondering if the 500 front end, even though it's a 2nd generation Charger, doesn't appeal to the crowd driving the Charger demand. ... 

I am currently on my 4th 69 C500.... That IS the case. The history is known, but the big turn-off is the grille and then people don't want to dig deeper into its pedigree...

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Troy
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2019, 03:19:30 PM »

not many options on the car, if any at all except the Hemi.....and I just noticed no power steering either

Bryan
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DAY CLONA
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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2019, 09:31:02 PM »

  That triple Green color killed it imo.


I have to agree with you on that, the over abundance of F8 didn't find that one buyer that absolutely had to have it at any price, any other color it would have saw 6 fiqures, nice car though excluding the color


Mike
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« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2019, 05:17:55 AM »

Day and Time have a lot to do with some sales, not to mention how much booze has been served   cheers
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held1823
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« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2019, 07:29:16 AM »

the owner could have gotten more for that car on this very website, and saved a crap ton of auction fees to boot

that an R/T will bring more money than a 500 shows how little people understand what the cars are, especially those with deep pockets who are in it solely as an investment. Those owners/buyers aren't turned off by the grille or rear window; they do not see the letters R/T on it, and likely have no clue of its muscle car pedigree.
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ernie helderbrand - 409053
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« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2019, 08:57:59 AM »

  That triple Green color killed it imo.


Nah, it had to be the NAPA battery.
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wyliemn71
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« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2019, 09:16:39 AM »

That definitely would have come home with me for that price, wish I would have been at the auction.
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odcics2
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« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2019, 01:33:04 PM »

  That triple Green color killed it imo.


Nah, it had to be the NAPA battery.

Or the electronic ignition, or the ballast resistor, or the wrong windshield wiper reservoir...

These are special cars. What separates the men from the boys is the quality of the restoration using correct parts.
If you scrimp now, expect a lot less later.    Twocents
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« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2019, 02:46:08 PM »

not many options on the car, if any at all except the Hemi.....and I just noticed no power steering either

Bryan

Not many options except 2 real important ones.  426 Hemi and W12 recall wheels.   I flew out to S. Carolina a couple weeks ago to check out the car and possibly negotiate a deal.  The guy seemed like a nice person, but the auction pictures make this car look  a lot better than it really was.   Replaced quarters and trunk pan with aging paint.  .A real nice driver though.  He would have taken $100k but I was thinking more like $90k.  I'm sure he is thinking $90 was a great offer now.  Me too.
On another note, I bought the Julius c500 white/ red gut about 10 years ago for $64.  Sold it a couple years later for double the price, plus.  Times have changed.  Still in shock this car only brought $77k.
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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2019, 02:49:35 PM »

The recall wheels obviously are long gone but the window sticker clearly shows them as being ordered with the car.  With a SPD of 1rst week of September,  it was probably delivered with the wheels.
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Mytur Binsdirti
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« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2019, 03:07:11 PM »

  That triple Green color killed it imo.


Nah, it had to be the NAPA battery.

Or the electronic ignition, or the ballast resistor, or the wrong windshield wiper reservoir...

These are special cars. What separates the men from the boys is the quality of the restoration using correct parts.
If you scrimp now, expect a lot less later.    Twocents


Can't forget about the master cylinder, negative battery cable & plug wire brackets. Just all these listed parts accounts for at least 25 grand off the value.  yesnod
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6bblgt
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« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2019, 01:48:35 PM »

where is the picture of the window sticker?

recall wheels would've been W23 & would NOT have been installed on a  907 "SCHEDULED" 500

HEMI, 3.55s, console, AM radio would've been extra cost OPTIONS per the fender tag & wood grain steering wheel per the pics

correction: cast center road wheels = W23 (15x6.0")
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6bblgt
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« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2019, 01:49:58 PM »

did it actually sell, or did the owner "buy it back"?
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odcics2
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« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2019, 03:11:38 PM »

Thought the cast road wheels were W23 ??  shruggy
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« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2019, 03:37:09 PM »

where is the picture of the window sticker?

recall wheels would've been W21 & would NOT have been installed on a  907 "SCHEDULED" 500

HEMI, 3.55s, console, AM radio would've been extra cost OPTIONS per the fender tag & wood grain steering wheel per the pics

Window sticker picture is in the other thread about this car....I just can't find it right now on my phone

Bryan
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held1823
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« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2019, 03:51:19 PM »

where is the picture of the window sticker?

recall wheels would've been W21 & would NOT have been installed on a  907 "SCHEDULED" 500

HEMI, 3.55s, console, AM radio would've been extra cost OPTIONS per the fender tag & wood grain steering wheel per the pics

Window sticker picture is in the other thread about this car....I just can't find it right now on my phone

Bryan


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,132536.0.html

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ernie helderbrand - 409053
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« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2019, 05:00:13 PM »

Yes.  My mistake.  W23. The owner had the original window sticker which I saw in person,  and I think it was also in the Ebay listing. 
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hemi-hampton
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« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2019, 06:49:34 PM »

  The body shop bill was 75K alone.  (Wingman)


That's what I said in the other post on it, That it probably cost more to restore it then what it sold for.
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white
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500


« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2019, 03:26:58 AM »

Was this car owned by a member here?
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« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2019, 08:13:09 AM »

Though I don't feel this way, I'm wondering if the 500 front end, even though it's a 2nd generation Charger, doesn't appeal to the crowd driving the Charger demand. Let's face it, out of all the 'classic' Mopars, it appears only the 2nd gen Charger has the attention of 18-30 year old enthusiasts. Don't believe me? Hang around on some other 'model specific' forum boards and you'll see the lack of younger generations interest first hand. How many of them would categorize the 500 as a 2nd gen Charger? Do they even know what it is besides a 'funny' looking Charger? Remember, they grew up watching the Jessica Simpson version of the Dukes of Hazzard and the entourage of Fast & Furious movies. Also, if you look at the cars that were most affected by the demand, it was the middle priced 383-440 cars that went berserk, not the ultra collectible Aero, wing and Hemi cars. The generation controlling the market doesn't have that kind of disposable income...yet. Look at how many of them are joining this board and dragging dilapidated cars home to restore...cars that you and I wouldn't even have thought about restoring 20-30 years ago! Don't take me the wrong way, I love these cars and welcome the younger enthusiasts full heartily into the hobby for whatever reason and hope they alone can carry on the tradition of loving and caring for these cars!  

THIS ^^^^^^ 2thumbs

I agree with the above, and BJ has proven over the past year or two to favor the Cheby crowed. Mopars in Scottsdale and now PB have had a hard time driving any fair value price, meanwhile people are paying stupid money for Camaros, Blazers and Chevelle's. If I had to pick an auction, I would take my Mopars to Mecum Indy which has had many high value Mopars sell for good money.
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« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2019, 03:02:22 PM »

I saw that one go and wondered why it was only 77k..... thanks for all the comments that helped answer my questions.
Even with the auction fee added on it still seem like a better buy than any one of the numerous modified Camaros  shruggy


 
 
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« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2019, 06:10:42 PM »

When I saw it listed for the Palm Beach show, I thought this wonít be good.    That is normally not much of a muscle car crowd there...resto mods maybe but more BMWís, Porsches, maybe modern muscle.
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« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2019, 07:18:07 PM »

I was at the auction on Friday for the day, The green turns me away i do have a couple pictures of it
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ACUDANUT
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« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2019, 07:32:27 PM »

The Green turns 90 percent of us away.  imo GREEN belongs on Jeeps, Tanks and the A-10.
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« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2019, 09:38:49 PM »

The Green turns 90 percent of us away.  imo GREEN belongs on Jeeps, Tanks and the A-10.

So, big question.  If one owned an otherwise broadcast sheet correct, numbers matching, F8 green 69 C500, would there be a cost penalty for doing an R4 red color change?  Even though the color was wrong, would it bring more desire (price) because it looked faster?
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« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2019, 04:09:08 AM »

Wow, F8 getting dissed once again!

That car is better optioned than my F8 C500 and I will be putting a date coded hemi in there too, but I will be seriously outta pocket judging by this sale?

Lucky I won't be selling it then lol... slap

I told a Mopar-guy here in the UK last week that R/T's were getting better prices than C500's and he said ''the world has gone MAD!''

Rarity doesn't always mean High Dollars... shruggy
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Kowal
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« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2019, 05:01:52 AM »

I thought the price was shockingly low, but I rationalized it this way...

As per the other poster that went and saw the car recently, it wasnít quite as nice as the pics.   It did have a lot of things under the hood to correct.   It was very much the wrong venue...Mecum Florida or Indy would have been better, maybe Scottsdale B-J.    I like the green, but admittedly the red Charger R/T that went before it was a heck of a lot sharper looking...I really like the C500 in B5 as I have.

I love, and always wanted, my C500.   Of course I lived in Detroit and now Charlotte, where the history of the car is really well understood.   Galen G once made a joke to me, while chatting at B-J, that he liked the C500 he used to have very much, but that he was amazed how little they were understood outside of the Mopar obsessive world.

To me..key takeaway, we should enjoy our cars!   
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« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2019, 12:30:26 PM »

Just went for $77K before fees.  We talked about this car before, as it was on e-bay recently.   Tough price for anyone but the buyer!   A red '68 Hemi Charger went for $120K prior to fees, right before it.   The '68 wasn't a numbers car, the C500 came with the original hemi block in a box.

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1969-DODGE-CHARGER-500-229907

Apparently I am part of the 10% crowed that wouldn't hesitate to buy a green car and prefer them over most colors. actually it's at the top of my list of colors that I look for so go figure. If that car actually has a new owner they scored one hell of a car for the price unless their is some shady issues with it.
So if anyone here has a terrible green on green Hemi charger 500 that they just can't bear to own anymore for that price in that condition I would be very interested.  know my question is "did this car actually change hands at that price" or is it possible the owner bought the car back somehow. Anyone know someone that know's someone that maybe know someone who bought the car to confirm it actually changed hands?
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« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2019, 05:47:17 PM »

  Have you seen what  Restomods are going for across the board, the prices are screwy on most all of them no matter what the brand is.. From my perch it seems like the younger generation wants the plug and play power, MODERN everything in an older body. You must admit very few of our generation  want to deal with a Model  A  and a points ignition is the kiss of death.
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« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2019, 06:39:23 AM »

I don't get the points are a kiss of death comment?  Also do not understand the buy it back comment. It is an auction and the seller paid a premium to list, and will pay a seller fee based on sale price.  Plus a buyer fee if he also bought it.  So why do that vice not taking reserve off. 

Besides any of the factors about cars, and the car, there also is the stock market and investor end.  I have been told buy older serious collectors that when stock market is doing well, cars do not, and vice versa.  Plus you need at least three really serious buyers to get the higher price.

If anything, BJ might have been a bidder and bought especially if no real action on car.  Personally, I think the days of appreciation are mostly over especially with early 60s cars and moving into the muscle car era too.  Sure Wing cars, probably not yet; and chargers certainly still hot but younger kids not as interested, and by the way many don't make the kind of money the older generation car buyers did.  Look at some of the relatively wealthy middle aged men who have sold off there collection at Mecum.  Their interest have shifted, there children are much more interest in Ferraris and McLarens if rich, so the pool of buyers is shrinking as the pool of sellers is increasing.

 
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« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2019, 03:10:41 PM »

Thereís a TON of Mopars at the Indy auction coming up. Will be interesting. I personally donít like resto-mods. If you want a classic buy an old original car. If you want a modern performing car buy a new Challenger Hellcat or something.  I just bought 2 mopars and they still have the original motors and orange valve covers on them.
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« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2019, 04:22:00 PM »

Dragon Slayer, correct me if I am wrong but it seams no one wants a car with a points ignition unless its a numbers restoration shruggy I am older than dirt and points ignition is not a problem.
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« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2019, 10:29:16 PM »

Dragon Slayer, correct me if I am wrong but it seams no one wants a car with a points ignition unless its a numbers restoration shruggy I am older than dirt and points ignition is not a problem.

I have had points before and if I had a freshly restored distributor, I wouldn't hesitate in using it... I used a dual-point Prestolite in my 1st 440 4speed 69 Charger 500 for a long time. But Al, I guess I'm like you, older than dirt... Just your dirt is older than my dirt..  icon_smile_big
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Troy
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« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2019, 11:00:57 AM »

Dragon Slayer, correct me if I am wrong but it seams no one wants a car with a points ignition unless its a numbers restoration shruggy I am older than dirt and points ignition is not a problem.

I have had points before and if I had a freshly restored distributor, I wouldn't hesitate in using it... I used a dual-point Prestolite in my 1st 440 4speed 69 Charger 500 for a long time. But Al, I guess I'm like you, older than dirt... Just your dirt is older than my dirt..  icon_smile_big
Twocents we’re talking two very different buying groups.  Old gear heads like us are fine with point ignition as long as they’ve got a screwdriver and a book of matches in the glove box. But for a car that’s being bought by a semi inebriated auction buyer who knows nothing about an old car except it look cool, and will call a shop to fix the car the moment it doesn’t start, points are a problem. 
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« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2019, 12:36:05 PM »

I am sure folks would rather have electronic ignition, but that is a deal breaker?  Color, engine, interior, transmission type may all be deal breakers, but if that is an original Hemi distributor with tag you could sell that in an hour for $500.  And if your thrifty you can install electronic for about $40.  Or buy new for $200 or so and pocket the profit.  Would you turn down a rare and desirable car because you do not like the hubcaps?

I bought a like new Mopar performance distributor for $5 off craigslist.  Doing a conversion is about an hour with beer break.

I have a 383 car with points.  Totally reliable and I have not even adjusted them after the first tune up and that is over 5 years ago.  Just a weekend cruiser that does see low miles.  Most likely the same driving a fully restored car would get.  But I get it most would rather have electronic.  But of all the things that can be "not right" on a car that you would want to change, having the original Prestolite distributor is not a hard one if you do not want it.  You could shed parts off the hemi motor and make money while getting your electronic ignition, headers, performance manifold and edelbrock carbs, etc....

For me the color, an auto, low option car, Non numbers is what puts it in that price range along with some other factors folks have stated.  If Green is your color and your ok with an auto that was a steal.
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birdsandbees
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Ontario, Canada


« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2019, 12:58:02 PM »

LOL... devalue a car because it has points! What has life come to? Up until my restoration over the past 3 years my Bee has had the same set of points in it since at least '88.. possibly '80. Has never left me stranded and if it did I'd fix it with my pocket knife!
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1970 'Bird RM23UOA170163
1969 'Bee WM21H9A230241
Highbanked Hauler
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« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2019, 05:07:23 PM »

Dragon Slayer, correct me if I am wrong but it seams no one wants a car with a points ignition unless its a numbers restoration shruggy I am older than dirt and points ignition is not a problem.

I have had points before and if I had a freshly restored distributor, I wouldn't hesitate in using it... I used a dual-point Prestolite in my 1st 440 4speed 69 Charger 500 for a long time. But Al, I guess I'm like you, older than dirt... Just your dirt is older than my dirt..  icon_smile_big

    HaHa your right Troy, I have a dual point Accel distributor I have had since the early 70S along with a monster of a Blue Streak ACC-560-12 truck and bus coil which I used back in the day and am tempted to stick it back in the 500 and my electronic dist. in my 68 when its ready to go.
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69 Charger 500, original owner  
 68 Charger former parts car in process of rebuilding
 92 Cummins Turbo Diesel
 04 PT Cruiser
hemi-hampton
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mopar or no car


« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2019, 08:44:21 PM »

I kept my stock factory #'s matching California emission Points Distributor on my 70 440 Dodge Charger R/T but just added the Pertronix electronic ignition that easily bolted under stock cap in place of the points & nobody knew. LEON.
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Kowal
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« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2019, 04:27:54 AM »

I kept my stock factory #'s matching California emission Points Distributor on my 70 440 Dodge Charger R/T but just added the Pertronix electronic ignition that easily bolted under stock cap in place of the points & nobody knew. LEON.

Ditto...works great!
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'69 Hemi Charger 500
'69 GTX

"P. J. O'Rourke:  The old car ran perfectly, right up until it didn't."
aerolith
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« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2019, 03:02:20 AM »

Maybe just maybe, its a reality check for old Mopars and the 'also-rans'... scratchchin
There was a time we Brits believed that rare Mopars were being used for demo-derby and jumping ravines!
So in the 80's when the dollar was 'weak' and flights were 'cheap' we came over and saved as much Detroit tin as poss.
But 40 years on, we now realise that a lot of rare and not so rare Mopars have survived, in the US of A and around the World. patriot leaving

Supply and demand always sets the price of commodities and old cars from the GLORY days of Detroit!

Over here in the 'old country' we are being weaned off gas-guzzlers and diesels by the day. shruggy
It won't be long before there will be 'limited mileage' usage for 50 year old cars with POINTS!!!
If there was a SMOG/EMISSIONS test for 20th century cars, then they would be gone in a heartbeat... Cry (forming a queue outside the nearest Motor Musuem...) eek

So I'm just glad that I can buy Petrol (gas) and drive my old Mopar on the Queens Highway (for now) on a collectors car insurance with or without POINTS lol... smilielol

Mopar values only matter when you buy and sell, just like houses, if you stay put then all is fine.
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