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Superbird Negative Battery Cable Ground Wire Screw Question

Started by Mopar John, May 22, 2019, 07:34:46 PM

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Mopar John

I have another original Superbird question for the guys with survivor cars.
The screw that attaches the negative battery cable ground wire to the core support,
Does it have a screw with a captive washer or a screw with a shoulder around the head.
While we are at it what logo if any is on the head?
I have attached a picture of the screw in question.
Thanks! MJ

maxwellwedge


Mopar John

Quote from: maxwellwedge on May 23, 2019, 09:18:26 AM
Hi John - I'll have a look on mine tonight.
Thanks Jim!
While your at it can you look at the air cleaner instruction decal on the air cleaner lid?
I would like to know if yours has " severe conditions " or just " conditions " on the bottom line?
MJ

62 Max

This is how mine was/is when I bought from original owner,stud with nut. :shruggy:

taxspeaker

On my green barn find, which was a 1-owner not touched since 1974, it was a one-piece bolt and washer that looks just like your first picture. On my white bird which was never touched since new before I got it, same thing. On the green one I can't see any markings on the bolt head-too rusty, and on the white one I am out of town and don't have a picture of the front of the bolt. If it is important I can get it next week. I also looked on my blue one, but no pictures, and on the purple Bird race car it was missing.

Bob J

Mopar John

Quote from: taxspeaker on May 23, 2019, 08:16:31 PM
On my green barn find, which was a 1-owner not touched since 1974, it was a one-piece bolt and washer that looks just like your first picture. On my white bird which was never touched since new before I got it, same thing. On the green one I can't see any markings on the bolt head-too rusty, and on the white one I am out of town and don't have a picture of the front of the bolt. If it is important I can get it next week. I also looked on my blue one, but no pictures, and on the purple Bird race car it was missing.

Bob J
Bob,
Thanks for taking the time to investigate and reply.
The screw with a captive washer in my original picture is actually 2 pieces.
That is why I posted to see if the correct screw is a 1 piece with a shoulder?
You can hardly tell without loosening it up.
MJ

hemi68charger

I'll reach out to my friend Dave with a Survivor Bird tomorrow...
Troy
'69 Charger Daytona 440 auto 4.10 Dana ( now 426 HEMI )
'70 Superbird 426 Hemi auto: Lindsley Bonneville Salt Flat world record holder (220.2mph)
Houston Mopar Club Connection

maxwellwedge

Quote from: Mopar John on May 23, 2019, 10:08:50 AM
Quote from: maxwellwedge on May 23, 2019, 09:18:26 AM
Hi John - I'll have a look on mine tonight.
Thanks Jim!
While your at it can you look at the air cleaner instruction decal on the air cleaner lid?
I would like to know if yours has " severe conditions " or just " conditions " on the bottom line?
MJ
Hi John - Sorry, I didn't see your post before I took pics. I'll check the decal tonight.
Here is mine - it has a bolt and nut. I'm wondering if it was a running change in production or possibly what they did if the weld nut wasn't on?
I need to remove the nut and see if there is a weld nut in there. Looks like we have them both ways so far....

Mopar John

Jim,
Thanks for checking and the picture!
It looks by the lack of orange paint in a rectangle that the weld nut came loose.
After that someone may have gone to the setup now on the car.
In the reply from 62 Max the weld nut is still there with a similar setup.
So this item like most has become more complicated and we need more examples!
MJ

62 Max

On another note,what is the significance  of the arrow stamped in the core support next to the bolt/stud ?

Mopar John

Quote from: 62 Max on May 24, 2019, 12:11:53 PM
On another note,what is the significance  of the arrow stamped in the core support next to the bolt/stud ?
Maybe something in the original core support stamping process?
Is there something on the other side that lines up with the arrow?
MJ

Mopar John

More information on my original question.
I have removed the 2 piece screw with captive washer from my original picture.
It is the one on the left and you can see when loosened up the 2 pieces.
It's hard to tell it's 2 pieces when it's installed.
In the picture on the right is a 1 piece screw with shoulder that looks similar to the 2 piece when installed.
Now just to find out what was there when built?
MJ


chaaargerb

Here are some pics of the one on my bird.

gtx6970

Quote from: maxwellwedge on May 24, 2019, 06:58:35 AM
Quote from: Mopar John on May 23, 2019, 10:08:50 AM
Quote from: maxwellwedge on May 23, 2019, 09:18:26 AM
Hi John - I'll have a look on mine tonight.
Thanks Jim!
While your at it can you look at the air cleaner instruction decal on the air cleaner lid?
I would like to know if yours has " severe conditions " or just " conditions " on the bottom line?
MJ
Hi John - Sorry, I didn't see your post before I took pics. I'll check the decal tonight.
Here is mine - it has a bolt and nut. I'm wondering if it was a running change in production or possibly what they did if the weld nut wasn't on?
I need to remove the nut and see if there is a weld nut in there. Looks like we have them both ways so far....

Im gonna go out on a limb and bet this one is not OEM

chaaargerb

Don't know if this helps but here is a pic of an air cleaner lid I just restored. It is from a complete date code matching 6 pack set up. The date code on  a couple of the carbs is 3209. The only thing is it was on a dodge not a plymouth. Larger decal was Six Pack. This air cleaner also has the metal flange in the front. Non Air Grabber type.

alfaitalia

Quote from: chaaargerb on May 25, 2019, 09:20:16 PM
Here are some pics of the one on my bird.

I think the OP is going to struggle to find another 6 foot long screw!
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you !!

Dragon Slayer

One that came off is a self starting sheet metal screw.  It would be used in an unthreaded hole.  Example, vacuum canister held to frame with a screw like that. B body brake distribution Tee also use it.  The one on the right would be something used in a threaded type nut.  Similar to the one shown in reverse on your original picture.

Now, why a stud on a welded nut?

Wingnut426

The one on my Hemi 'bird is the same as chaaargerb.  I have 3 extras if anyone needs one. WINGNUT
HEMI Daytona Convertible

maxwellwedge

Quote from: Wingnut426 on May 26, 2019, 06:31:32 PM
The one on my Hemi 'bird is the same as chaaargerb.  I have 3 extras if anyone needs one. WINGNUT
E-Bodies use that screw as well....should be silver zinc plated

maxwellwedge

Quote from: Mopar John on May 23, 2019, 10:08:50 AM
Quote from: maxwellwedge on May 23, 2019, 09:18:26 AM
Hi John - I'll have a look on mine tonight.
Thanks Jim!
While your at it can you look at the air cleaner instruction decal on the air cleaner lid?
I would like to know if yours has " severe conditions " or just " conditions " on the bottom line?
MJ

Hi John - here is mine. A lot worn but I think it will help. 

Mopar John

Quote from: maxwellwedge on May 27, 2019, 08:18:02 AM
Quote from: Mopar John on May 23, 2019, 10:08:50 AM
Quote from: maxwellwedge on May 23, 2019, 09:18:26 AM
Hi John - I'll have a look on mine tonight.
Thanks Jim!
While your at it can you look at the air cleaner instruction decal on the air cleaner lid?
I would like to know if yours has " severe conditions " or just " conditions " on the bottom line?
MJ

Hi John - here is mine. A lot worn but I think it will help. 
Yes Jim, it will help!
That is another example of the Superbird six barrel lid with just "conditions" on the last line of print!
I sent a pm to chaaargerb because I couldn't make out his in the reply.
The answer I got back was that original decal was also "conditions" only on the last line of print.
Thanks to all! MJ

Mopar John

                                     Back to the Superbird Negative Battery Ground Cable Wire Screw!
I had been thinking about this quite a bit and then I remembered that I had some core supports I had cut off cars.
So down to my basement I went to look at what I had.
My first picture shows the core supports.
I was hoping that I had a 1970 core support with the Negative Battery Ground Cable wire screw still attached?
Well, I was losing hope as none of them had one attached!
Then I got to the last one marked 1970 and the screw was still there! WOW!
It was there but rusty as shown in my second picture.
I removed it and I couldn't make out any markings stamped into the head.
Then I took it out to my shop and measured it and it was the same size as the one chaaargerb has!
I will share with you what happened next in my next reply!
MJ

Mopar John

                                                     Superbird Negative Battery Cable Ground Cable Screw Part 2!
So the next thing I did was get my engine compartment hardware drawer out again and dump it out on my bench.
That is my first picture.
With the knowledge I got here and a sample I started sorting through the hardware looking for the correct screw.
About two thirds of the way through I found one! It even has the correct logo!
I show it in my second picture.
I cleaned it up and installed it on the Superbird.
I show it in my last picture!
Thanks again for all the replies, pictures and help!
MJ

birdsandbees

Man I've got some real head scratching going on now... I know my vacuuum lines/wire harness is run wrong through here (and not over the support), but I don't even have the welded in nutzert.. or a hole for same!
1970 'Bird RM23UOA170163
1969 'Bee WM21H9A230241
1969 Dart Swinger LM23P9B190885
1967 Plymouth Barracuda Formula S
1966 Plymouth Satellite HP2 - 9941 original miles
1964 Dodge 440 62422504487

held1823

i recognize that basement parts stash, and may or may not have lightened the core support supply by one
Ernie Helderbrand
XX29L9B409053

Mopar John

Quote from: birdsandbees on May 27, 2019, 05:01:37 PM
Man I've got some real head scratching going on now... I know my vacuuum lines/wire harness is run wrong through here (and not over the support), but I don't even have the welded in nutzert.. or a hole for same!
Wayne,
I got a lot of different scenarios from this topic.
I don't know the history of your car but your drivers side core support panel looks like a 1969 version.
They didn't have a ground wire so no need for the hole and weld nut.
I went back down to the basement and took a picture of my 1969 core support for you to think about.
MJ

Mopar John

Quote from: held1823 on May 27, 2019, 06:44:56 PM
i recognize that basement parts stash, and may or may not have lightened the core support supply by one
Ernie,
You are correct there are only 4 down there now!
MJ

birdsandbees

Quote from: Mopar John on May 27, 2019, 07:38:40 PM
Quote from: birdsandbees on May 27, 2019, 05:01:37 PM
Man I've got some real head scratching going on now... I know my vacuuum lines/wire harness is run wrong through here (and not over the support), but I don't even have the welded in nutzert.. or a hole for same!
Wayne,
I got a lot of different scenarios from this topic.
I don't know the history of your car but your drivers side core support panel looks like a 1969 version.
They didn't have a ground wire so no need for the hole and weld nut.
I went back down to the basement and took a picture of my 1969 core support for you to think about.
MJ

Thanks John... if you look close in my picture you'll even see the arrow is there! AFAIK it's the original support, panel is spot welded in place. Only thing I haven't confirmed is if the VIN stamp is under my radiator decal, but will be doing that soon.
1970 'Bird RM23UOA170163
1969 'Bee WM21H9A230241
1969 Dart Swinger LM23P9B190885
1967 Plymouth Barracuda Formula S
1966 Plymouth Satellite HP2 - 9941 original miles
1964 Dodge 440 62422504487

Talkiemoparjr

I worked my way thru my dads (The Original Talkiemopar) basement to his garage, removed some boxes and this is what's on his 167,000 Bird.

I was afraid if I tried to explain how to use his flip phone to take a picture and send it to me I would get nowhere after 4 hours of explaining how :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :shruggy: I cut my losses and stopped in for a visit

Birdflu

Is it the consensus that the ground wire and connector should NOT have any type of paint or overspray on it?

62 Max

Quote from: Birdflu on May 28, 2019, 10:38:01 PM
Is it the consensus that the ground wire and connector should NOT have any type of paint or overspray on it?

I would "assume" that if the ground wire had paint,the bolt would also,nobody is going to paint the wire end before attaching. :shruggy:

Picture from above.

Mopar John

Quote from: Talkiemoparjr on May 28, 2019, 08:02:37 PM
I worked my way thru my dads (The Original Talkiemopar) basement to his garage, removed some boxes and this is what's on his 167,000 Bird.

I was afraid if I tried to explain how to use his flip phone to take a picture and send it to me I would get nowhere after 4 hours of explaining how :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :shruggy: I cut my losses and stopped in for a visit
Talkiemoparjr,
Thanks for your efforts to show us another original example of the screw!
If you look close you can see the logo on the head originally posted by chaaargerb!
MJ

Mopar John

Quote from: 62 Max on May 29, 2019, 09:03:16 AM
Quote from: Birdflu on May 28, 2019, 10:38:01 PM
Is it the consensus that the ground wire and connector should NOT have any type of paint or overspray on it?

I would "assume" that if the ground wire had paint,the bolt would also,nobody is going to paint the wire end before attaching. :shruggy:

Picture from above.

62 Max,
The ground wire is part of the negative battery cable that was attached to the engine when painted.
There was usually more paint away from the battery terminal and closer to the engine where the end of the ground wire was.
The ground wire would have been attached to the core support later when the engine was installed.
So it is my understanding that the mounting screw would not be painted.
MJ

maxwellwedge

Quote from: Mopar John on May 29, 2019, 09:58:26 AM
Quote from: 62 Max on May 29, 2019, 09:03:16 AM
Quote from: Birdflu on May 28, 2019, 10:38:01 PM
Is it the consensus that the ground wire and connector should NOT have any type of paint or overspray on it?

I would "assume" that if the ground wire had paint,the bolt would also,nobody is going to paint the wire end before attaching. :shruggy:

Picture from above.

62 Max,
The ground wire is part of the negative battery cable that was attached to the engine when painted.
There was usually more paint away from the battery terminal and closer to the engine where the end of the ground wire was.
The ground wire would have been attached to the core support later when the engine was installed.
So it is my understanding that the mounting screw would not be painted.
MJ


That is correct John. How much paint that is on the negative cable varies by where it was hanging and the person painting the engine. On my 69 GTX the extra rear ground cable actually had masking tape around the eyelet (remnants are still on it) to keep paint off of it during the engine painting.

62 Max

Quote from: Mopar John on May 29, 2019, 09:58:26 AM
Quote from: 62 Max on May 29, 2019, 09:03:16 AM
Quote from: Birdflu on May 28, 2019, 10:38:01 PM
Is it the consensus that the ground wire and connector should NOT have any type of paint or overspray on it?

I would "assume" that if the ground wire had paint,the bolt would also,nobody is going to paint the wire end before attaching. :shruggy:

Picture from above.

62 Max,
The ground wire is part of the negative battery cable that was attached to the engine when painted.
There was usually more paint away from the battery terminal and closer to the engine where the end of the ground wire was.
The ground wire would have been attached to the core support later when the engine was installed.
So it is my understanding that the mounting screw would not be painted.
MJ


( How much paint that is on the negative cable varies by where it was hanging and the person painting the engine.)

This is the part that I left out,I would assume the amount of paint would be variable depending on the paint process although  the majority of what I've seen were only partially painted including my original that it here somewhere,If my memory hasn't completely left me,I am thinking was only about 1/3  of the cable had paint.

Mopar John

                                                                               Engine Assembly Paint
I went back through the pictures and found the engine assembly before and after paint.
These pictures will help show how the end of the ground wire part of the negative battery cable got painted.
I am sure this was different in production from where the wire hung and who was painting the engines.
MJ