AUTO TO 4 SPEED ON SUPERBIRD

[B54SPEED]

I'm not sure if there is a right or wrong answer so in your opinion
on a numbers car would hurt, help or would the value stay the same
if a guy converted a auto on the floor to a 4 speed ?

[6bblgt]

as in the color change thread .....

I think as the desirability/value increases - modifications from STOCK/ORIGINAL do not help the end value

[odcics2]

as in the color change thread .....

I think as the desirability/value increases - modifications from STOCK/ORIGINAL do not help the end value

I agree...   

[Talkiemoparjr]

Me too...

[held1823]

the value would decrease by the amount needed to put it back to original, be it transmission, color change, or what have you

you could recoup part of the amount by selling the incorrect parts, but you're still upside down in the end

perhaps the only scenario not on the losing end is taking an incorrect hemi back to an original 440 configuration, since the hemi itself has considerable value

a daytona with a hemi is not even close to the same thing as a hemi daytona, so that swap does not excite anyone looking for originality

[chaaargerb]

If your car has a numbers matching driveline you would definitely not help the value of the car changing it to a 4 speed. By changing it you just took most of the high end investors out of the game. Now you would be dealing with more of the hobbyist group of people who would beat you down for every little thing they could to get the car for as cheap as they could. I made one change to my bird, I changed it from a 4 speed no console car to a 4 speed console car. I know I didn't hurt the value and it wouldn't be that hard to correct it. I have the correct non console pistol grip handle so if the next person didn't like it they would have to cut the console brackets off and put in a new carpet.     

[426HemiChick]

Me too...

06 September 2019

Just noticed your avatar and the comment below it. Reminds us of our garage, three cars in a two car garage and stuff piled on top of them. They sat that way for 40 years until we recently started to clean things up.

Don't let yours sit for 40 years; time isn't yours or your car's ally when it comes to our cars just sitting around being neglected.

I guess we can say we have a garage find.

EDIT in bold 07 Sep 19

Best  Always,

426 Hemi Chicks

[DAY CLONA]

I'm not sure if there is a right or wrong answer so in your opinion
on a numbers car would hurt, help or would the value stay the same
if a guy converted a auto on the floor to a 4 speed ?

Numbers or not, IMHO a 4 speed is a bonus that I would gladly desire/accept/pay for... I actually devalue a vehicle's asking price when considering a purchase knowing that it's equipped with an auto, esp a column shift... my rule of thumb, the more stuff that I need to convert to a manual, the lower my offer goes, or the more apt I'll look at another vehicle

[chargervert]

Just save all the original pieces needed to put the car back to correct,including the piece that you cut out of the floor to install the floor hump,so the next owner can put the car back to correct if they choose to do so. Build the car to your liking and enjoy it! Life's too short to worry about the value all the time!

[Talkiemoparjr]

Me too...

06 September 2019

Just noticed your avatar and the comment below it. Reminds us of our garage, three cars in a two car garage and stuff piled on top of them. They sat that way for 40 years until we recently started to clean things up.

Don't let yours sit for 40 years; time isn't yours or your ally when it comes to our cars just sitting around being neglected.

I guess we can say we have a garage find.

Best  Always,

426 Hemi Chicks

I'm sorry this is getting long I don't mean to hijack a post

Thanks for the wise word of encouragment.  I also encourage other owners to get there cars out and represent the car's history and educate others,

A little history on the Bird in my avatar, it is of my dad's 440 Six Barrel 4Speed (on topic ) Bird he purchased new May 1970. He is the original owner and most people here know him as talkiemopar (hi dad) never restored.
It was used on family vacations for the first years of its life.  Then we went to the first wing car event in I think was 1977.  We met so many interesting and super nice people my Mom and Dad decided to make every years Winged Warrior National Meets our family vacation.  I was 7 years old (oldest of 3 boys).  Going all over the country, even to LA all the way from Northern Kentucky (A entire month off work I think).
When I got older and had a son, his grand son went on those trips in my place. Now I have grandchildren and when they are old enough I am hoping that they could join my father, my sons and their children and I to some meets.
Now he is 77 and now I am now driving him to national meets (either wing clubs) meeting a lot of the same families, characters and cars from the past. His Bird has over 167,000 miles on it .
And he just attended a small car show at the local flea market Wednesday, did laps at Kentucky Speedway last march, plans to drive it to Atlanta Motor Speedway-Talladega in October and back to Ky Speedway on November 2nd for more laps.
Hopefully you and your MSP can attend some of the club events.  FIY some people don't bring their cars they just show and enjoy.
   Sincerely Junior talkiemopar

[aerolith]

Don't remember many, if any, Real Nascars being AUTO lol...

I would buy a 4-speed over an auto every time myself.
If its a true representation of an actual Nascar then its gotta be a bare bones 4-speed AERO!
An auto wingcar with an SE package 'is not' in any way a track/race car, just a selling point to sell 500+ models.

Yep hacking a big hole in the floor of a desirable Mopar and banging on gears seems odd to an American (maybe), but we Brits say YES PLEASE!!!
Auto's are a rare beast in the UK and 'GEARS' are the NORM, yep Mr.Norm...

When the factory told Mr.Norm "you can't put a 383ci in a 67 Dart", guess what HE DID!!!
So embarrased was Mother Mopar they then fitted the 440ci motor, 'to save face'...

Its your car, do as you wish, drive 'em whilst you can, the ECO Warriors are watching you and me...

Ask Mr.Norm 'what would you do'?

[gtx6970]

IMO, it will sell faster as a 4 spd. but the  value is going to take a pretty good hit 

[odcics2]

Don't remember many, if any, Real Nascars being AUTO lol...

I would buy a 4-speed over an auto every time myself.
If its a true representation of an actual Nascar then its gotta be a bare bones 4-speed AERO!
An auto wingcar with an SE package 'is not' in any way a track/race car, just a selling point to sell 500+ models.

Yep hacking a big hole in the floor of a desirable Mopar and banging on gears seems odd to an American (maybe), but we Brits say YES PLEASE!!!
Auto's are a rare beast in the UK and 'GEARS' are the NORM, yep Mr.Norm...

When the factory told Mr.Norm "you can't put a 383ci in a 67 Dart", guess what HE DID!!!
So embarrased was Mother Mopar they then fitted the 440ci motor, 'to save face'...

Its your car, do as you wish, drive 'em whilst you can, the ECO Warriors are watching you and me...

Ask Mr.Norm 'what would you do'?

Actually, in the fall of '69,  Dan Gurney and Bobby Isaac tested the #88 with a beefed up 727 at Riverside.  The idea was to make up for most drivers missing shifts and sucking at a road course!   It didn't pan out...  Pic below is the Lockheed recorder remote buttons that were mounted on the tunnel, next to the driver.

[Aero426]

If you are going to the trouble of converting an auto to a manual for driving pleasure,  a five speed is the way to go.   

[Ghoste]

You can put another check in the unmodified column for me.  I think in the case of things like wing cars it would sell easier and for more money left stock.

[odcics2]

A reason people make clone cars.....   A do what you want project without shooting yourself in the foot....     

[moparstuart]

If you are going to the trouble of converting an auto to a manual for driving pleasure,  a five speed is the way to go.   

smaller hole in the tunnel  ( small square on top  and no need for the hump also   )   

[hemi68charger]

If you are going to the trouble of converting an auto to a manual for driving pleasure,  a five speed is the way to go.   

smaller hole in the tunnel  ( small square on top  and no need for the hump also   )   

We talking Tremec Stu and Mike?

[DAY CLONA]

If you are going to the trouble of converting an auto to a manual for driving pleasure,  a five speed is the way to go.    

smaller hole in the tunnel  ( small square on top  and no need for the hump also   )  

We talking Tremec Stu and Mike?

Yes Tremec, what else is there? I wouldn't waste my time converting over to a 833 4 spd, 5 spds are kind of "old school" now, 6 spds are worth cutting up the floor for, if your going 5 spd Tremec, it's a tight fit in the auto hump, you really need the factory manual hump, gives you more room, plus the Tremec OD's get really hot after prolonged runs in OD, nothing like a .64 or .50 5/6 spd in a wingcar, you can have steep gears for the street and still manage triple digit MPH speeds, along with decent MPG gains as well... after you've driven a car set up this way, you'll never think twice/worry about modifying a vehicle for one regardless of it's value/pedigree IMHO

Mike  

[mopar346]

I've argued for the last few years that you wont hurt the value of column shift car by converting it to a 4 speed even on higher end cars but admittedly I have factored the super elite cars into that equation. In the end game I believe more value is gained or lost in the quality of the build, a correctly detailed undercarriage  will draw more money than many would believe, although mine aren't perfect there is a lot of effort put into details that will maintain it's finishes for a considerable amount of time and mileage. I cant tell you how many "restored" "high end" cars that are little more than a paint job. One of the first things I look at on a car is the wiper pivot seals, if they are painted over you can bet the car didn't come apart to be done even close to correct.

[moparstuart]

If you are going to the trouble of converting an auto to a manual for driving pleasure,  a five speed is the way to go.   

smaller hole in the tunnel  ( small square on top  and no need for the hump also   )   

We talking Tremec Stu and Mike?

yes i was   , i went with the 6 speed  which is a whole bigger can of worms  , but the 5 speed is way less invasive and a great option if your looking for Overdrive and easy install .
I sure love the 6 speed but it was alot more work and would not be easy to return the car to stock .   

[Redbird]

Out of a total of approximately 2500 wing cars, I'll approximate here and say 1900 are left in various forms.

Out of that I'll guess that less than 10 percent of those are driven over 2000 miles per year. 190 cars-probably less.

If top end is your worry, the average new larger BMW has you easily covered. I do not see too many winged cars being set up to do a Cannonball across the US.

The purists won't like anything other than stock. However, they are the same folks that say; auto on the column, non numbers, no fender tag, no broadcast sheets, changed colors, etc..... are all basically worthless cars. When a auto on the column car comes up they say "if only it had a 4-spd". Yet somehow these supposedly worthless cars seem to sell.

Our cars were a lot more fun when everyone did not have to be exactly perfect on some money only scale.

Look at the Big Willie Daytona, on the web and every magazine said "Restore it like a day two car" the owner did that and took a bath. Much as I hate to think of it, I'll likely cut the roll cage out of my old race car. The market does not like modified cars, it likes posers. Most owners today want to imagine a perfect past.

Would I cut the floor today? Probably no. I have done it in the past though.

The kids of today are going to want electric cars. So do what you want and have fun!

[moparstuart]

Out of a total of approximately 2500 wing cars, I'll approximate here and say 1900 are left in various forms.

Out of that I'll guess that less than 10 percent of those are driven over 2000 miles per year. 190 cars-probably less.

If top end is your worry, the average new larger BMW has you easily covered. I do not see too many winged cars being set up to do a Cannonball across the US.

The purists won't like anything other than stock. However, they are the same folks that say; auto on the column, non numbers, no fender tag, no broadcast sheets, changed colors, etc..... are all basically worthless cars. When a auto on the column car comes up they say "if only it had a 4-spd". Yet somehow these supposedly worthless cars seem to sell.

Our cars were a lot more fun when everyone did not have to be exactly perfect on some money only scale.

Look at the Big Willie Daytona, on the web and every magazine said "Restore it like a day one car" the owner did that and took a bath. Much as I hate to think of it, I'll likely cut the roll cage out of my old race car. The market does not like modified cars, it likes posers. Most owners today want to imagine a perfect past.

Would I cut the floor today? Probably no. I have done it in the past though.

The kids of today are going to want electric cars. So do what you want and have fun!

Drive it like you stole it 

[6bblgt]

Look at the Big Willie Daytona, on the web and every magazine said "Restore it like a day one car" the owner did that and took a bath. Much as I hate to think of it, I'll likely cut the roll cage out of my old race car. The market does not like modified cars, it likes posers. Most owners today want to imagine a perfect past.

when was it a "Restore it like a day one car" & where did it sell?

[held1823]

i believe he meant restoring it in willie livery (day two) resulted in the bath taking, whereas putting it back to factory would have increased the value

at least that's how i read it